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New Battery systems => Fuel Cells => Topic started by: Rmaxd on July 09, 2012, 12:51:10 AM

Title: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: Rmaxd on July 09, 2012, 12:51:10 AM
I was wondering what is the cheapest way to store electricity, ie as liquid ammonia, without any expensive filtering or processing of impurities ... but if the filtering & impurities are cheap & easy to handle, great

Basically I have excess electricity, what is the cheapest & easiest ways of converting that electricity into a storable medium.

Even if the amount of electricity required is excessive, as long as the storage of the electricity is cheap & easy, that too is fine

Basically processes that require Inefficiency & excess amounts of electricity, are also fine, its the final medium to store the electricity in, im really interested in, as inefficiencies & excess electricity, can be worked around

Any help much appreciated

Thnx
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: bugler on July 09, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
That's the problem with energy. It is difficult to store.


Excess energy could be used to take water up hill so when needed it can used to produce electricity.


An equivalent could be to lift a heavy weight and when needed its energy can be taken back producing electricity.


But no easy way existe to store energy.
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on July 10, 2012, 06:11:36 AM
I think we don't need to store electricity, cause its everywhere all we need is to access it, its always there, just make a special ringing effect.  ;) 
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: Rmaxd on July 10, 2012, 09:43:20 PM
Thanks for the replies, ok just list some mediums to store electricity in, it doesnt have to be easy, as long as it doesnt contain expensive chemicals

Even if the process is electrically prohibitive, ie requires more electricity to store then it generates, thats fine

I cant use batteries, as they require stuff like acid & lead etc.

Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: fritznien on July 11, 2012, 05:47:20 AM
can you give us a little more detail, how much energy how long.
maybe a budget or why you need to store it.
fritznien
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: Rmaxd on July 11, 2012, 03:55:14 PM
I was thinking of storing around 1-10 kilowatts, maybe transfer it to something like liquid hydrogen, or use it to create ammonia

It's basically to replace electric generators & tractors

I dont need anything long range, as theyre all close by

Im not concerned about the cost, as long as it doesnt contain expensive materials & chemicals

So basically a cheap medium to store around 1-10 kilowatts, or more, im not concerned about the inefficiency of the process or the inefficiency of the material

A list of methods or materials to convert 1-10 kilowatts of electricity

thnx
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: mscoffman on July 11, 2012, 05:19:57 PM
Cheapest...Well I dunno, but safest and less side effects;
 
Non-Chemical;
 
(1) Electric Grid Intertie /with appropriate agreements/
 
(2) Compressed Air
 
Chemical with Carbon Free;
 
(3) Hydrogen Gas 2H - Compressed Gas or in metal matrix - Water Feedstock
 
(4) Hydrogen Peroxide  H-O=O-H - liquid - Water Feedstock
 
(5) Ammonia H3N - liquid - water and air Feedstock
 
Organic Chemical
 
(6) Carbon Monoxide Gas - CO
 
(7) "Bingo" Gas Hydrocarbon
 
(.8.) Methane Gas Hydrocarbon - CH4
 
(9) Acetylene Gas Hydrocarbon - H-C=C-H
 
(10) Methyl Alcohol - Methanol - CH3-OH
 
(11) Ethyl Alcohol - Ethanol - C2H5-OH
 
Each need to be evaluated as to safety and how it is going to be used
I see the Carbon containing chemicals compounds as being recycleable.
These are all simple compounds because I surmise that the simpler the
compound equation the less QA quality assurance is necessary to be
sure what you are getting from the process is the real deal.
 
Many of these things are combustable in engines, some would require
specially designed engines, most are combustable in fuel cells though
perhaps specialised fuel cells would be required.
 
Some of these things a explosive, some are flamable in air, some
are flamable if air/oxygen gets injected into their storage, some are
noxious.
 
I happen to like compressed-air (except for the noise) because you can get energy gain
via storage if you for example, compress the air at night and then play it back during the
day you will get a form of solar energy conversion. Note that finned heat sinks are less
susceptable to damage then are solar panels.
 
Hydrogen Storage is probably the most refined if one is willing to put engineering into it.
One should indeed check out those hydrogen catalytic metals here because they
promise a closed hydrogen/water cycle with small energy waste.
 
I also like ethanol because it is non-toxic liquid with a fairly high ignition temperature
and would dilute out with water but I suspect the chemical loop reprocessing would
be somewhat more complex. You can denature it with some small amount of methanol.
 
Hydrogen peroxide is somewhat explosive in it's high concentration form and is
suceptible to LENR cavitation excitation. Carbon monoxide sounds crazy but if you
can keep people away from it it actually gets used as a fuel gas in steel furnaces etc.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman
 
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: Cherryman on July 11, 2012, 06:34:52 PM
You could also melt salt with it, and use the melted salt as a heat(energy) storage.


Solar plants are using this as well.
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: Rmaxd on July 11, 2012, 06:38:56 PM
Thanks for the great list mscoffman, much appreciated

Could you put a rough energy conversion efficiency ratio for each, as itd help me narrow it down alot quicker

Im leaning towards liquid hydrogen atm, as cooling, gas leaks, etc, the solutions are all electrical ie tecs

Btw are capacitators high enough to store kilowatts yet?


Thnx
Title: Re: What is the cheapest way to store electricity ie as ammonia etc
Post by: crazyoldfart on January 16, 2013, 02:04:35 AM
well, If you are looking to go on tha cheap and off tha shelf..... why not capacitors? 10800 micro farads equal a AA battery- 2.8 amphours of energy. 10 AA batteries are equal to 1 capacitor rated at .1 farad (if discharged at the same level) @ equivalent voltages.  that's around 15 volts at 2.8 amps per hour. in the size of an aspirin bottle..... I'm thinking farms ........