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Author Topic: Simple to build isolation transformer that consumes less power than it gives out  (Read 269502 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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@TK

Don't fret about name calling members.

Even thought this is not @JN relevant, your videos with Tx and Rx effects is just great.

I have questions about your set-up.
So do I. I don't want to hijack this thread, so further discussion of my devices can happen in the comments to the specific videos where I show the interesting effects as I find them. I'll try to answer these questions here though.
Quote

1) On the Tx side,  since your voltage reading does not change (fixed voltage applied) and only your amp readings is increasing in certain conditions. So where is the amps read in series?
The ammeter is in series with the input power coming from the battery/power supply. Lately to stabilize things I've been running on the 12 volt, 5 A-H battery in parallel with the brute force DC PS with the system set to provide a steady 13 volts within the range of 1-5 amps draw. A regulated PS doesn't work so well since the current draw is so variable. I have the two DMMs patched in so that the ammeter is in series just before clipping to the board's power input leads, and the voltmeter is across the battery terminals. There is about 8 inches of twisted pair connecting the battery/PS to the board's input power leads. Scoping the input power shows a pretty steady DC voltage without much disturbance, and the voltage sags with heavy draw.
Quote
2) If the voltage reading is parallel to the Tx circuit feed and the amps is in series with the same location, I would like to know if in your Tx circuit after the feed, is there any full bridge rectifier that is isolating any possible return from your Tx coil back towards the feed side that may be the cause of the increase in amperage reading.

No, there is no rectifier. I think the system is like a somewhat lossy direct connection, so if the receiver draws more power the input power to the transmitter goes up accordingly, just as if they were connected with wires.
Quote
Meaning, is it possible, if this is DC pulsed Tx, that the receiver receives this DC pulsed Tx, hence a signal that goes on and off is exchanged, but when the Tx is on, the Rx is off, and when the Tx is off, the Rx is on. If this is the case then this may explain your Nova mode where when the Tx if off, the Rx is transmitting to the Tx, and when the Tx is on, the Tx is transmitting to the Rx so in essence is it possible that both Tx and Rx are both Tx-ing and RX-ing to each other in a loop that produces the Nova mode.
In one of the vids I show the receiver and the transmitter scoped at the same time. Both signals are nice sinusoids. Frequency and phase do change when SNM happens. The relative phase depends on where you clip the leads to the rx-- or equivalently, which side of the rx loop is facing the tx. If I hold the Rx by the probe leads and rotate the loop 180 degrees, the phase goes with it. So the relative phases depend on the loop orientation, i.e. which "end" of the loop you choose as a reference.
Quote
3) In your video, while you were playing with the third loop on the left of the Tx or between the Tx and the Rx and this increased the Rx fan speed, I could not help but realize you were showing, in a way, @otto's ECD function were all that is missing in yours is a mobius loop were half is Tx and half is Rx that feed each other to increase output. (Maybe a bad flash in the brain but when you were adjusting the third loop distances, @otto's ECD just jumped out at me given his loops had about the same distances.

When @otto was doing his ECD experiments, he had reported that under certain conditions his power supply voltage and amperage readings were just going haywire. I have seen this happen many times myself but we know this is not indicative of a dramatic increase in power consumption but rather the voltage and amperage readings were showing a high return of flyback from the pulsed device.
I am impressed by how LITTLE the meters are influenced by radiations etc. from the device. Its output is a remarkably clean sinusoid at between 500 kHz and about 850 kHz so there is actually very little sidebanding or rf "noise". I see solid voltage and current readings that are predictable, repeatable, and clearly related to receiver position, bulb brightness, etc. In other words, I am believing the meters in this case. This device doesn't disturb the meter performance, and the input side is straight ordinary DC, not even pulsed.
Quote
I guess the base question is...

4) How does the Tx side realize it needs more power as seen by the increase in the amperage readings you are showing under certain conditions? That is a big one to ask.

wattsup

PS: @JouleSeeker

Just saw your post that is in the same line as mine.

Yes, that's a big question and I don't know the answer. I suspect it's the same way that a battery realizes it needs to supply more current when the resistance of the load drops. When we can explain that one, then add in the electromagnetic field and explain being able to transmit that "realization" through space without connecting wires..... we will be happy campers indeed.

Even more intriguing to me is the "SN mode" ... where the brightness of the bulb doesn't vary with distance and the input current goes _up_ with distance as the system maintains the power to the receiver at a constant level even though the distance is changing.

Ok, sorry, I'd really prefer to do detailed discussions of this device on the YT comments to the vids themselves. I just wanted to show that there is some relevant work being done, that perhaps some misconceptions are happening, and that there are lots of possibilities that perhaps haven't been considered.

Thanks for your interest.

(ETA: Sorry, I'll append the schematic here so interested parties don't have to go digging for it. The receiver is just three components in parallel: cap of same capacitance as total in tx, bulb and loop, and for DC output another larger cap and a fast highcurrent diode in series, also paralleled with the receiving cap.)

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Offline wattsup

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@TK

Thanks for your reply. This is very interesting stuff and getting to know this better is a key to many effects that I have a base logical explanation but do not want to expand on it now since without better knowledge, it may sound like I just walked off a flying saucer with new twin antennae sticking out of my forehead. lol

About discussing this here, it does not really matter since my experimenting with @JNs idea is now put on hold until he gets back from vacations. I see no point is continuing since of course we can make endless changes and variation of his base idea, but this would no longer be pertinent to his fixed recommendation.

One ultimate test with your set-up for me would be to fix the Tx and Rx loops so they cannot move apart from your best found distance and angle. Then this will enable you to lift the complete set-up off the table and turn the complete system in various angles relative to the ground plane to see if there is any change in Tx/Rx strength. This will show if ambient energy orientations can affect the complete system if both Tx and Rx loops do not change their mutual orientations. There is a reason for this madness but it would be so hard to explain in a few lines.

wattsup


Offline TinselKoala

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@TK

Thanks for your reply. This is very interesting stuff and getting to know this better is a key to many effects that I have a base logical explanation but do not want to expand on it now since without better knowledge, it may sound like I just walked off a flying saucer with new twin antennae sticking out of my forehead. lol

About discussing this here, it does not really matter since my experimenting with @JNs idea is now put on hold until he gets back from vacations. I see no point is continuing since of course we can make endless changes and variation of his base idea, but this would no longer be pertinent to his fixed recommendation.

One ultimate test with your set-up for me would be to fix the Tx and Rx loops so they cannot move apart from your best found distance and angle. Then this will enable you to lift the complete set-up off the table and turn the complete system in various angles relative to the ground plane to see if there is any change in Tx/Rx strength. This will show if ambient energy orientations can affect the complete system if both Tx and Rx loops do not change their mutual orientations. There is a reason for this madness but it would be so hard to explain in a few lines.

wattsup
The problem with "here" is that inevitably my own personal troll/stalker will show up and start bombing the thread, and that's not fair to anyone. At least on my YT account he's blocked whenever he shows up under a new username.

I think I may have already done, less formally, the test that you describe.

Unlike my Tesla capacitative wireless power systems, this one is insensitive to surroundings or handling. I can stick big metal wrenches, or even working electronic circuits like the brushless computer fan, in between or even inside the loops with no apparent effect on anything. I think if I put a big conductive sheet of metal in between the rx and tx it might shield it, but the random presence of metal or not, like the toolbox that I have it set up on in the vids, doesn't make a difference that I can tell. The system is fully portable; I have one built into a small briefcase and a few days ago I took it to my electronics component supplier's store, set it up on his glass counter, and blew everybody's minds. You can pick up the transmitter by the loop while it's operating and it makes no difference to anything.

A high-voltage capacitative system would go crazy from that.

This system will _not_ light up neons,CFLs etc the way the SassyClassE SSTC HV capacitative system will. I have thought about lighting a CFL with it but I'd have to use the bulb's own power supply and the wireless receiver's output, not with just the bare bulb alone like the SSTCs will.

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Offline TinselKoala

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@watts:
However, I do definitely see the point of doing the experiment just as you describe, in a more formal manner with, if possible, actual measurements. If the system can entrain energy from "outside" this could be small and very orientation dependent and my informal jugglings might not notice this very important effect.

Offline avalon

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I can't help thinking about the simularities of your experiment with olne of Don Smith's (one Tx coil - multiple tunes Rx coils).
You mentioned 'above 500kHz' so you wevelength is about 600 meters. Don Smih was using about 36 kHz - that's about 8.3 km.

It would be interesting to check if there is a reletionship between the operting frequency and the distance where the effect is at peak.

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Offline wattsup

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@TK

What would happen if you took 10 small transformers, each with an Rx loop on the primary, nothing else. Then identify each secondary polarity ends and put the secondaries in series and check the output against your Tx.

The ultimate Tx would be with a variable frequency that you can then hone in on the best for any device. Imagine if you could adjust distance/angle of the Tx/Rx plus the Tx frequency.

But, mostly, I would love to see your Tx run an Rx that drives a JouleTheif(s) as a remote battery replacement. Wonder what the result would be. If it can run a motor, it can run an OU device and permit you to show no batteries in your OU device.

Also, what would happen if the Rx has multi-loops.

He, he.

wattsup

Offline T-1000

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I can't help thinking about the simularities of your experiment with olne of Don Smith's (one Tx coil - multiple tunes Rx coils).
You mentioned 'above 500kHz' so you wevelength is about 600 meters. Don Smih was using about 36 kHz - that's about 8.3 km.

It would be interesting to check if there is a reletionship between the operting frequency and the distance where the effect is at peak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCc16Mf4lI

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Offline TinselKoala

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That's interesting... but I noticed this video in the list of similar ones.... look at the schematic on the board ! It's the same as mine, almost exactly. A Royer oscillator, in other words. I don't think that's exactly what is driving his transmitter coil, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SpadJ03stqU#!

The presenter is at first showing a hybrid capacitative-inductive system involving high voltages. It's pretty neat, but I don't think you can pick up that transmitter by hand while it's operating. Later he shows a system like mine, but I can't tell if he's getting that "sn" effect.
It's interesting that the HV system is transferring power between the aircore resonators over longer range, and then the loop receiver converts that into low voltage high current, but only short range. Neat stuff, I wish I could remember more of the Russian I studied 30 years ago.
In the last part of the video he shows extending the range using multiple loops at apparently no power increase. That's great, a significant result that I had only seen hints of, because I don't have enough _room_ to spread out like that !!

Offline JouleSeeker

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Thanks for your replies, TK. 
As regards OU, I would like to see measurement of the input power from the battery, and the output power on the load at the receiver. 

I'm most interested in your SN mode... very curious.  Yes, this sort of "anomalous" behavior is what it's all about IMO.

Off topic again-- I've been thinking about two research communities, the FE community represented here and the Cold Fusion CF --> now Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) community.  No connection, right?  I'm wondering.  I've got a foot in both communities now, and I see similarities in goals -- and some observations.  The LENR community sees excess heat occasionally, but sightings of nuclear signatures are generally missing!

What if the "real" portion of the "LENR" effect is not nuclear in origin at all, but rather anomalous EM energy? (i.e., FE)  that's an hypothesis.


{We need a better name than "free energy" -- too many misleading connotations IMO.  Anomalous ElectroMagnetic Energy (AEME) might be better..}   On further reflection, the EM force has been subsumed with the Weak force, "unified", so that physicists now speak of the "ElectroWeak force" as one force in nature, along with gravity and the strong-nuclear force.  So I come to -- Anomalous ElectroWeak Energy, AEWE, pronounced  "awe".

 There is a big LENR conference in Korea next month, still with "CF" in the title, ICCF17.  Interesting stuff...    Are the two communities actually reading the same book, while speaking different languages and not communicating much at all?

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Offline avalon

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjCc16Mf4lI
Tha's not it. In your video the guy shows the effect of tuned LC circuits vs untuned. I would be interested to see the frequency-distance relationship (tuned or untuned). In other words, I am interested to see if there is a standing wave effect in the original TKs videos.

Offline T-1000

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SpadJ03stqU#!

The presenter is at first showing a hybrid capacitative-inductive system involving high voltages. It's pretty neat, but I don't think you can pick up that transmitter by hand while it's operating. Later he shows a system like mine, but I can't tell if he's getting that "sn" effect.

In this case the representer shows resonant energy transfer by means of magnetic field. Nothing unusual as we have radio waves doing all work in same way :) No scalar things involved.


 There is a big LENR conference in Korea next month, still with "CF" in the title, ICCF17.  Interesting stuff...    Are the two communities actually reading the same book, while speaking different languages and not communicating much at all?

Yes, they are speaking about same things in different abstractions. Oviously, if everyone would speak in same abstracts, the nuclear/oil power source would be already long forgotten.. ;)

In terms on topic, the both 1:1 transformers might be best if they are custom winded with each layer on bifilar mode - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFcd_QCLK5w#t=0h12m22s with two primaries and two secondaries and with secondary coils wound opposite than primary coils... What it would give - the concentration of magnetic field into single small space. And amplified magnetic field means amplified induction :)

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Offline The Boss

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Avalon.
 
Using TK's unit, I would suspect that standing (or at least colliding) waves may be had
with 2 TX loops connected in series placed apart, with the RX loop in between.
 
 

Offline TinselKoala

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Well, see, that's the puzzler. The SWR refers to the "antenna match", that is, how much of the power put out by the transistors is actually being radiated by the antenna, versus being reflected back into the apparatus by the impedance mismatch. Generally one wants the radiator... the antenna.... to be an exact quarter-wavelength electrically, of the frequency at which you are operating. This allows the most "forward power" and the highest power "out" wrt the transistor's actual power levels. 
My setup is operating at between 500 kHz and 1 MHz, so a quarter-wavelength is going to be soccer-pitch size. The standing waves have to be long, and with the physical dimensions of the device being so small, the electrical dimensions must be approximated with the cap values and the loop lengths.
Now, between the sender and the receiver.... there is room for real standing waves in that space, at harmonics of the fundamental, and perhaps that range-extension using multiple loops (active? inactive?) has some spacing or size dependence.  Perhaps my SNM has something to do with establishing a true standing wave resonance between the units involved.

There are so many interesting interactions and relationships that can be explored using multiple receivers that anybody building these things should have at least 3 receivers, two similar simple ones and one with DC output for motors, etc. After seeing the range extension effect in the video I linked, I am making several more intermediate loops to play with today.

Offline TinselKoala

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@JS: On power measurements.... these can be tricky, in spite of my earlier comments! DC input power in this case is easy. But what about output power?
I could consider the transmission loop to be a current-monitoring resistor of low resistance, like 0.01 ohm, and then, by scoping across the two ends of it, display the voltage drop across that "shunt", arrive at an instantaneous current waveform. And of course I could then multiply that by the voltage levels seen and then average over time, to arrive at an average power level out from the transistors, that could be compared to the input power.

I think the received power is more difficult to measure, though. Just going by the bulb brightness (power dissipated at the bulb) may be misleading.

Offline Tito L. Oracion

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hmmmmm  :o


it seems that everything is on its place. :D




getting nearer again indeed  >:(   ::)


dig more buddies  ;D


i salute everyone  :-X




 ;D

 

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