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Author Topic: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads  (Read 23885 times)

Offline jonifer

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2012, 10:08:29 AM »
you would not touch Lenz, he is invincible. Such models are well calculate in FEM programs

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Offline travin69

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2012, 09:12:34 PM »
Jonifer,

Feel free to explain.

Thanks,

Daniel

Offline jonifer

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2012, 06:01:46 AM »
To date, no known example of Lenz's rule violation. Coil with a variable cross-section, the bifilar coil, piramid coil, superconductor coil and any form of core or material etc. - total energy ballance.

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2012, 06:01:46 AM »
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Offline travin69

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2012, 02:39:32 AM »
Jonifer,

Thanks for the try but I just don't have the knowledge to understand what you are telling me.  I am a trial and error kinda person when it comes to electrical engineering/magnetic physics.

From my standpoint on building an overunity motor, I look at input energy vs output energy (actual power out, not mathmatically calculated).  At the current moment, my test motor draws 0.6 - 0.7 amps at 24 volts; no matter what load is placed on the motor, it stays at 15-16 watts.  I measure the actual energy that is drawn from the battery, through the power measuring device, into the motor controller, ie gross power into the motor.  Once the generator is done (looks like next Monday), I will connect it to the motor shaft and place a dc resistance load on the generator.  The same type of power measuring device will be between the generator and the load.  I will then compare the two and calculate my efficiency.  I want real world figures that include all the inefficiencies and tolerance ganging issues.  I feel this is much more indicative of performance, as it is actual real performance.

Once I test the unit, I will optimize each piece based on my research and design abilities.  My plans include: magnetic bearings, top quality electrical iron core material (vice 1018 CRS), variations of bifilar and litz wired coils, parallel wound coils, core shape variations, and other changes.  Each change will then be tested to see how the input/output power levels are affected.  At this current moment, I feel that the core material, shape, and coil windings are the key to reaching overunity in my case, though more specifically the coil windings.  I see the way to overunity via coils with bifilar/parallel windings, as this affects the power input (I can lower the power and keep the amps the same).  This combined with an optimal core material is as good as I can get.  If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.

I am extremely excited about the results next week.

Thanks,

Daniel

Offline jonifer

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 08:43:01 AM »
no chance, in all conceivable ways this is done, max COP=95% for modify motor-generator system.

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 08:43:01 AM »
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Offline travin69

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 05:42:40 PM »
Jonifer,

Thanks for the comments.  I appreciate them.  I am still not convinced and I will let the test results determine the outcome and path of my research.  I am sure that many people have tried doing what I am doing.  I just don't know their capabilities and their materials used.  I am winding the second coil this weekend.  If it performs like my calculations suggest it will, I might be able to prove you wrong about overunity motors.  If not, I will just keep trying other things until I exhaust my resources or something works.

As an addition to my testing, once I have (large assumption here) got more out than I put in (net), I will wire it to be a self running machine.  This I believe is the ultimate test of overunity and will once and for all prove if an overunity magnetic motor is possible.

Thanks again,

Daniel

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 06:33:42 PM »
Hi Daniel,

IT is a good sign your motor does not draw more input power when you load its shaft. Can you stop the shaft by your handgrip? how "beefy" it is I wonder.
You wrote you have been building a generator to test output and possibly loop the mot-gen setup.  This is bit tricky because you do not know 2 things: your present motor efficiency and your would-be generator efficiency.  In case your motor has (say) COP=1.1 (this would mean 110% efficiency) and you generator will have (say) COP=0.85 (85%), then looping them would result in 1.1 times 0.85=0.935  i.e. by looping you would get a stop soon. AND you still would have a motor with 110% efficiency but how would you notice that?   I deliberately chose COP numbers to show this 'dilema': how would you know in advance the COP of your generator, it would be needed to test by some means.  IF you are aware of these, then sorry for my ranting.
Regarding the looping, you must be careful and some voltage regulation means should be used between the gen output and motor output otherwise a very fast runaway situation may develope, ruining your circuits.

Greetings,
Gyula

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 06:33:42 PM »
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Offline travin69

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2012, 05:57:21 AM »
Gyula,

You have hit my diliema on the head.  I have been struggling with this for some time now.  I was going to order a generator online (perm mag dc) until I checked the efficiency (it was 55%).  I am looking for another option currently with an efficiency over 90%.  I might have to build a small ponybreak to calculate load on the shaft if I can't find a better genset.  My motor only goes about 500 rpm so finding an efficient, low speed gen has been rough.  The search continues.

As for the motor I have built, it is very weak; I can easily stop it with my hand.  I only used small magnets due to cost.  If I can't do it with small magnets, I can't do it with larger ones, and there is no need to spend the extra money.

Hope to have some options this week for the generator for load testing.  I will keep this thread updated.

Thanks,

Daniel

Offline briansahern

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 05:19:07 PM »
From Brian
 
I am new to the group, but I bring a strong message.  I have been testing with Arthur Manelas for nearly 12 months. He wraps 22-guage wire around three perpendicular axises of a ferrite billet the size of a paperback book.  He send rapid rise time pulses through the windings and  several unknown components that result in highvoltage pulses being sent to a battery.
 
This is a combination of Bedini and Floyd Sweet, but it works and produces about 80 watts of electrical power. It is over unity, but I do not know how or why it works.  I just learned about nitinol and thought that it may be better than Arthur's barrium ferrite billet.
 
Arthur 'conditions' the billets by some proprietary process that result  in abupt firld gradients acoss the billet, so fast rising pulses see these abrupt field changes and the resulting induce fields in the windings somehow get amplified.
 
I am excited about this concept. Please believe me that the Manelas device works, but I am not privy to the circuit.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 05:19:07 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2012, 06:45:06 PM »
Hi Daniel,

Unfortunately there is no efficiency data at all but maybe the seller can provide the manifacturer data sheet for this relatively cheap permanent magnet generator (unless the shipping cost is not prohibitive), see this link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WIND-PMA-PERMANENT-MAGNET-ALTERNATOR-GENERATOR-TURBINE-/390447133424

(Strangely enough, the same generator (but for fractions of penny) from the same seller in the USA ebay is here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIND-PMA-PERMANENT-MAGNET-ALTERNATOR-GENERATOR-TURBINE-/390447510682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae87c349a )

The big question is whether your motor would be able to maintain this generator in rotation when you load the gen output by just 15-16W BUT if you could obtain it at a relatively cheap shipping cost, it may be worth the risk? Especially if you see this generator rotor offer: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renagade-7-mag-pma-permanent-magnet-alternator-rotor-for-wind-turbine-generator-/280929258029?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4168b04a2d

I was thinking of bicycle generators built into the hub (because their efficiency is usually specified) but realized they do not normally provide 15-16W output power and they are expensive (and afterall their efficiency is anything between 60-85%): http://www.bikequarterly.com/VBQgenerator.pdf

So what remains for you as the cheapest solution (at least I think) is to build a decent Prony brake setup to measure your motor's output shaft torque...  though you are surely familiar with it, here is a link you may have not come across, see Page 19 for a simple torque measurement in the PDF file:
http://www.stirlingengine.com/download/smart_stirling_manual.pdf 

(this is a good forum here too: http://www.hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=198 )

rgds,  Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2012, 07:13:10 PM »
From Brian
 
I am new to the group, but I bring a strong message.  I have been testing with Arthur Manelas for nearly 12 months. He wraps 22-guage wire around three perpendicular axises of a ferrite billet the size of a paperback book.  He send rapid rise time pulses through the windings and  several unknown components that result in highvoltage pulses being sent to a battery.
 
This is a combination of Bedini and Floyd Sweet, but it works and produces about 80 watts of electrical power. It is over unity, but I do not know how or why it works.  I just learned about nitinol and thought that it may be better than Arthur's barrium ferrite billet.
 
Arthur 'conditions' the billets by some proprietary process that result  in abupt firld gradients acoss the billet, so fast rising pulses see these abrupt field changes and the resulting induce fields in the windings somehow get amplified.
 
I am excited about this concept. Please believe me that the Manelas device works, but I am not privy to the circuit.

 Hi Brian,
 
 I have never heard of Arthur and his 'conditioned ferrite billets so I did a little search and found this link:
 http://e-catsite.com/manelas-device/   
 
 I wonder if Arthur makes money from his knowledge and that is the reason he keeps it proprietary? In this case he would never reveal it...  Bedini is said to be knowing how Sweet 'conditioned' his BaFe magnets but he sits on it...
 
 I assume you had approached Arthur with some "questions" when you worked with him, was he firm and rejective?
 
 Thanks,
 Gyula

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2012, 07:13:10 PM »
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Offline briansahern

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2012, 09:36:11 PM »
Those were my slides that I made from Sept-December 2011. I have gotten better data since that time and we are continuing verifying the behavior.

Offline travin69

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2012, 04:46:13 AM »
Brian,

Please start your own thread to talk about this stuff.  I have no care about nitinol or ferrite cores unless they will directly affect my motor's performance.

Thanks,

Daniel

Offline travin69

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2012, 04:48:35 AM »
Gyula,

Thanks for the info.  I saw some Bluewindpower generators for about 300 bucks US.  The issue is that they are only 55% efficient in my rpm range.  I still might buy one just to give it a whirl but I am really considering building an axial flux generator.  They are 70-80% from what I can tell.  For now, I think I am going to use the stirling engine string brake idea you provided.  Thanks a lot for the help.

Daniel

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Alternative/Free Energy Group Starting In Hampton Roads
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2012, 12:24:00 PM »
Hi Daniel,

When you have some 12 minutes to spare for watching this youtube video from about minute 3:50 then you could see Peter Lindemann's practical demo on measuring motor torque, you may find it also informative and practical.
This is the link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLGuf1geOiQ   The video itself last for more than 2 hours but the torque measurement info lasts to minute 12:30 or so. Of course you may find the full video as useful.

rgds,  Gyula

 

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