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Author Topic: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko ?  (Read 157121 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko ?
« on: July 12, 2006, 04:42:03 PM »
Hi,
here is a real new great magnet Video setup for a working SMOT ramp
with a big rollaway from Tom Ferko:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6531588179303444480
« Last Edit: May 13, 2007, 10:14:34 AM by hartiberlin »

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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2006, 04:52:04 PM »
Here is a photo of his best track:

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2006, 04:55:32 PM »
He wrote on the yahoogroup:

Hi All,

I am right now getting things together to make a movie clip of this
track with the runner magnet in motion on a level surface. It will be
an eye opener.

I stated previously that my ceramic runner donut ring magnet was 5
pounds. I estimated incorrectly. Today I actually weighed it and it was
7 pounds.

I found I could roll it with the track as illustrated in the "FILES"
section a distance of 4.5 feet.

If you place stacked neodymium cylinder or rod magnets for your rail
poles as shown you can easily duplicate this "STAGGERED" track
yourself. Big things to remember are to use a large heavy donut ceramic
ring magnet as your runner magnet. It will not twist and turn easily.

Most importantly the runner magnet runs up the "center" between
both "staggered" rail pole sections. The rail poles NEVER touch the
runner magnet at all. The angle the rail poles are positioned from the
sides of the runner magnet is critical. To close in from the
tracks "START" and the runner will not move at all or worse yet the
runner magnet will have to be forced onto the track to move. To far
away and the runner wont move. At some specific pole angle the runner
can be placed by two fingers onto the track and it will start rolling
on its own.

This is very important or your track will not work at all. For every 1
or 1.5 inches ( lenght) of magnets you have stacked together as rail
magnets you must have a "NON FERROUS" 1/4 inch gap between each of
them. I used 1/4 inch wood disks or 4 USA copper pennys between my rail
magnets. Both work excellent. My first rail pole has 13-- 1.5 inch
long .75 inch diameter grade 38 neodymium magnets stacked together
inside an aluminum channel. My runner magnet is 4.5 inches in diameter
and is a total of 3 inches thick, 3 sections stacked together.

The second rail pole you will see in a movie clip is 1/4 inch thick, 1
inch diameter, stacked ceramic disk magnets arranged in like fashion as
above. That second rail pole was not as powerfull as the neo rail but
it does the job. It was brought in a little closer as its power was
less than my neo rail.


Lets concentrate now on the MID point of the FIRST rail pole of the
track.

Look across and you will see the second rail pole segment starting at
that point and tapering inwards ( upside down V shape or arrow shape )
at the end. Just like the first rail did.

Now lets look at the ending point of each rail. If the end point of
both rails are to close to the runner the magnet will try to spin
around. If to far away nothing is gained. Some angle you will have to
find with your particular runner magnet there will be a pronounced
repel or kick off at the rail poles end.-------> Acceleration.------
>

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2006, 04:55:32 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2006, 07:43:03 PM »
Tom Ferko wrote to me:

Hi Stefan,

Thanks for showing it on your web site.
 I hope others try to replicate it - I did everthing on a level surface and
hope to see if it goes up an incline later.   Maybe using a lighter runner
might be better.   Lots of room for experimentation.  My runner magnet
actually rolled/fell off the wood planks end onto a section of white plastic
sheet I had at the end of the plank so as not to damage the magnet on the
concrete driveway.  It even rolled further down this plastic as you can see.
Lots of repulsive action at the ends of the stacked two magnet rails.

 Notice how the runner magnet is pushed one way then the other way at the
ends of the rail magnets?   It does not head straight down the wood plank
but at  angles due to the last push it recieved.    The runner magnet is
heavy and 3 inches wide or it would only spin around when it was pushed.
This way it just rolls an angle first one way then later another way.
Staggered.     You can put this letter with the other info on the track on
your web site if you wish.       Many Thanks,    Tom Ferko

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
To: "TOM FERKO" <tferko243700MI@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:13 AM
Subject: Re:Stagger Track Illustrated


> Hi Tom,
> I made a new topic about your special SMOT ramp here:
>
> http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1244.0.html
>
>
> Please update the topic with new pics and new
> reports.
> Did you have a small incline in the video
> or why was the magnet jumping down at the end ?
> How much height difference does your ramp have ?
> Many thanks.
>
> Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2006, 09:16:16 PM »
He replied again:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Hartmann" <hartiberlin@gmx.de>
To: "TOM FERKO" <tferko243700MI@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Re:Stagger Track Illustrated


> Hi Tom,
> many thanks, I have posted your answer.
> Why did you at all let the roller fall then ?
> Why didn?t you put a longer wood plank there,
> so you could measure, when the roller stops after
> how many meters ?
>
> 2.Can the roller magnet be shown to roll from about 1 Meter
> away into the track, then being accelerated and will
> roll out then with higher speed. or are at the beginning of the track
anywhere
> any repelling forces ?
>
> 3. How are the magnets setup in the tracks of the video ?
> in the overunitybuilder yahoogroup there are different pics and
> many things have been deleted there already.
> Maybe you can send me a drawing for posting, which
> shows the magnet setup ?
>
> 4. in the overunitybuilder yahoogroup there was a picture
> with a new ramp showing "V" shaped iron rods and
> magnets at the side. Did you also make a video with this setup ?
>
> What is o far your best ramp and what height difference does it climb ?
> Many thanks.
> Gruss / Best regards, Stefan Hartmann
> ----

Hi Stefan,

No repel forces in the tracks begining. Lots of repel at the ends of the two
tapered rails. Notice the rails are spaced very wide at the beginning or
runner entry point.  You will have to experiment with the magnets you are
using to find your own sweet spot angle.

I did not have a longer plank at that time and did not expect the runner
roller to move that far.

I will make an illustration of the rails and how they are constructed and
send it to you.

Forget using the iron Vs for the track now. They did not work out as well as
I thought they would.

I never tried to incline the runner magnet.  I was totally absorbed with the
fact that the runner actually rolled as it did on a level surface.

If  the runner was directed into another setup just like the one in the
movie clip I see no reason that why the runner would not accellerate much
faster.

I learned one thing real quick and that was use a heavy stacked ring magnet
runner magnet with a lot of surface area contacting the track.   If the
runner is very light all it will do is spin around and jump/stick to the
nearest attraction pont. The weight and surface area of the runner magnet
acts as sort of a DAMPER and by the time the runner trys to react on forces
pushing and pulling on it -- it already is past those forces and directs
itself towards the next set of forces acting on it. And so on.  This way it
now can roll in a left-right- right- left staggered fashion using its own
power and that of the track rails.

If the rails you see in the movie clip came together at the ends you would
most certainly have created the dreaded "sticky spot" and that would stop
all runner action.  Both sides of the runner magnet now would be "PINCHED"
or pushed  inwards and all runner action stops dead.

Tom




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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2006, 09:16:16 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 10:53:43 PM »
thanks hartiberlin

Offline mark australia

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 06:59:30 AM »
Hi To,
I always love your craftsmanship.
Could you post a construction diagram for the rail mags.
I think a possible variation could be rigging up a circular track with bent magents. the running magnet could be harnesed to a centrally located axle or pin, yet still allowed to swivel.
This would allow acceleration and be a way to harness some useable power.
Will ponder over it on the weekend.
My only problem with devices like this is, will the magnets loose their power over time? Given its a push pull situation that might over come the problem.

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2006, 06:59:30 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 06:26:08 PM »
Here is a new picture from Tom about his new upcoming SMOT ramp motor
design with swinging back and forth stators:

Hi Stefan,

I am going one better with this.  I am building a Stagger track SMOT motor
as I show in this Jpeg plan.

Please let me know if you can see the jpeg or just a bunch of meaningless
numbers.   Look very carefull at it.

Observe the South pole rail ends are positioned OUT OF THE WAY so as to
keep the two lazy susan mounted HEAVY ring magnets turning.    The North
ends of the rails Draw the turntable ring magnets to them and the weight
inertia ( 14 pounds) in my case keeps them turning to follow the next rail
to its North end.   And so on.     Its so darn simple!

You can post this alsoif you wish including the motor plan.  I hope everyone
gives it a try.

Remember that the two ring magnets an the turntable are not wimpy little
magnets but two 7 pound ring magnets.   We need weight inertia to keep
things moving.

Tom

Picture attached to this message, you must be logged into the forum to see it !


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 06:59:52 PM »
Hi Tom,
right, I agree totally.
The retreating stator magnet are a good idea,
cause also Finsrud and Scott Clarke are using them
in their magnet motor designs.
When you put these swining stator magnet maybe fixed
via some springs near the turntable, they can then swing back
and forth when the rotor magnets pass by...
This is a very good idea.

Many thanks.

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 06:59:52 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2006, 05:20:46 AM »
No picture, and I did start to build it..  But I am an electronics guy not mechanical..

A 4 spoke wheel with ball bearings on the end of the spokes (no rim), and magnets curved and angled to make a SMOT on the outside of the wheel the bearings travel in.  It would travel on a wheel, in a circle..

I can try to draw it and upload it.  I made a SMOT years ago and my kids loved it..  Thought about the wheel back then, but never finished it.

My SMOT was ball bearing, on a aluminum IC chip carrier, with to brick neo magnets.  It went fast and flew.

please post picture(s)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2006, 05:30:22 AM »
Here is a picture of Tom?s stator  with the magnets inside.
He wrote to me:

Hi Stefan,


Here is a photo of a single stagger track  rail and what it looks like under
the red tape.   I have many stacked disk ceramic magnets shown here. Shown
are 13.  Neodymium disks or blocks can be used and really they are much
better to use but costly.  There are 1/4 inch thick wood disks seperating
one inch sections of stacked magnets.    North-south-north-south-ect.   Real
easy to make and really powerfull at the ends. Note:  The total lenght is
determined by trial and error.   To short  a rail and it will not work right
and to long it will be weak and the runner will stop in the center point
somewhere.


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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2006, 05:30:22 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2006, 05:32:08 AM »
Here is the next picture from Tom,
what he will build now with his motor.

He wrote:

Hi Stefan,

Here is what I am going to use to attempt constructing a working Stagger
track SMOT motor. I sometimes use my bedroom as my workshop.   I
photographed everything on my bed spread.   My wife thinks I have a few
screws loose but I keep trying.

Notice the two huge donut ring magnets.  When you step up to that type of
magnetic power strange things happen.  I can track one rail with one side of
any single donut runner magnet.  I dont need the other side of the magnet at
all!!  Notice the North sides of both Donut ring magnets will be facing the
pivot point of the turntable.

You can easily see how the rails are stacked. I have two wood disks ( 1/4
inch space) for every one inch of stacked magnets.  I ran out of wood disks
and have to complete the 4th rail. The rails have a powerful North and South
pole on either end.

NOTE to those not knowing:  The rail magnets MUST have wood or plastic
seperations ( 1/4 inch space) as shown.  Why?  Study all the Tomi track
literature you can find and you will have your answers.  Its a long story
but if you use a solid long magnet as a rail the Donut runner magnet will
stop in the center of any given rail and never move towards the other side.
In our case its the North pole side.


I am going to use a very flat bearing under the turn table. Its shown in the
jpeg. That bearing turns as smooth as silk and it will hold 100 pounds.  Any
type of outside magnetic field influence on either Donut ring magnet(
mounted on the table top) will cause the table to rotate on its center
axis.(MOTOR PICKUP)

Hopefully all will work out.        You can post all  this also Stefan if
you wish.  I hope others are interested.

I am using ceramic magnets as I have hundreds available but if someone with
a lot of cash springs for neodymium magnets -- wow-- "when - not if" the
motor works look out---    Tom

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2006, 10:28:35 PM »
Tom wrote again to me this:

Hi Stefan,

In my original plan (jpeg) I sent to you I was going to use TWO ring magnets
on the turntable. Thats in error.  Looking further I saw an error in my
thinking.  I have created a sticky spot.  Observe that both ( 2 ) mounted
ring magnets on the turntable will close in on the fixed North ends of the
magnetic rails they are tracking at the "exact" same time.   This is a  no-
no as one donut magnet will be pushed inwards on one side of the table and
the other donut magnet will be pushed inwards on the other side of the table
at the exact same time when passing the North poles of the track rails.  A
sticky spot is now formed.

 Observe the movie clip of the moving linear Stagger track once more. "ONE"
side of donut magnet will always push off on the end of a magnetic pole at
an angle and roll away.   The other side of a magnet WOULD do the same thing
IF THERE IS A MAGNETIC TRACK RAIL ON THAT SIDE ALSO.  IF both push off
angles cross each other the donut runner stops dead in its tracks right
there.  THE DREADED STICKY SPOT is formed.

That never happens on the linear stagger track shown in the movie clip
because the track rails are staggered and only one side of the runner magnet
is tracking a rail at any given moment and when pushoff time occurs the
runner magnet is free to leave the rail without influence from the other
side of the runner magnet.

To correct this I will go with three donut magnets on the turntable. Thats
indicated where the three powder blue lines are.    Only "ONE" side of "ONE"
donut turntable magnet will be directly facing the North fixed end of a
given track rail pole at any given moment in time. The other two turntable
magnets facing their rail pole track will be "power tracking"  in different
positions.   End result will be no sticky spot.

Please replace the original jpeg plan with this corrected  jpeg plan and
explanation  Stefan......  Tom

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2006, 10:30:09 PM »
Tom and all,
better try it first with just one rotor magnet,
(and a equal weight at the other side for compensation).
This way not too many fields will negatively superimpose
and kill the effect !

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: Working SMOT ramp from Tom Ferko
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2006, 09:01:11 PM »
Tom and all,
better try it first with just one rotor magnet,
(and a equal weight at the other side for compensation).
This way not too many fields will negatively superimpose
and kill the effect !

Hi All,

I just rounded up a bunch of lead bird shot that equals the weight of the donut turntable magnet. Now I have a counterweight that can easily be lightened or made heavier to balance the (hopefully) spinning turntable .    Tom

 

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