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Author Topic: Can a static electric field do work?  (Read 8804 times)

Offline sparks

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Can a static electric field do work?
« on: June 03, 2012, 08:06:41 PM »
   Can the electric field do work?  Say we have a free electron in a vacuum tube emitted in the middle of the tube by a heated filament.  Then we extract the filament leaving the free electron floating there (well moving a little due to gravity)
Then we apply  dc between the anode and cathode and charge up the capacitance developed by the tube.  Will the electron move?  If it does how does the energy to move it get there and from where does this energy come from?  Wouldn't this be an effect from afar.  Are there little particles that push the electron.  If there are then where did these little particles come from and where are they going.  Were they hanging around in the metal before it was charged or did they get dragged in and out along with the electrons. Is the electron moving in a stream of these little particles like a fish in a river current or is there like some fisherman with a hooked fish reeling it in?  Really need to answer these questions and would like to hear your thoughts.
 

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Offline canufi

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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 12:44:57 AM »
Quote from Physics website: "When work is done by a conservative electric field on a test charge, then the charge will lose EPE and gain KE. This is written mathematically as

WE field = - DEPE = DKE
Since E is a conservative field, this is merely a restatement
of the Law of Conservation of Energy."

Therefore once the electron moves through the circuit the field needs to be continually charged up by household or car battery supply.  It's not a static field, the word "static" is nonsense.  Electricity is not static, lightning moves and there is current when lightning strikes.

Charging up a comb with wool to produce static electricity requires energy be added.

Offline canufi

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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 12:50:14 AM »
http://home.roadrunner.com/~enloephysics/potential.htm

"In a electric field, it (energy) is the work done to move a positive or negative charge of magnitude "q" against the electric field. "


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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 12:50:14 AM »
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Offline canufi

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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 12:52:46 AM »
As stated in my youtube videos the work being done in Stan's device would be the molecules themselves, ramming electrons into the positive field when molecules spin and move through brownian motion. Voltage isn't performing work, the molecules would be. We know for a fact that molecules move at room temperature very fast.  That would be a way to utilize work - by using kinetic movement of molecules.

However this begs the question of what energy source is being drained if molecules are performing work.  Normally if a molecule is slowed down it directly relates to heat - which means it should cool down, hence my continual harping on the fact that Stan's device remains at room temperature instead of cooling down.

Offline sparks

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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 07:34:36 AM »
As stated in my youtube videos the work being done in Stan's device would be the molecules themselves, ramming electrons into the positive field when molecules spin and move through brownian motion. Voltage isn't performing work, the molecules would be. We know for a fact that molecules move at room temperature very fast.  That would be a way to utilize work - by using kinetic movement of molecules.

However this begs the question of what energy source is being drained if molecules are performing work.  Normally if a molecule is slowed down it directly relates to heat - which means it should cool down, hence my continual harping on the fact that Stan's device remains at room temperature instead of cooling down.

   My understanding is that energy was quantified and exists as a photon.  The photon can be described as both a particle and a wave.  When observing a photon as a wave it is an electric field propogating through time and space.  When observed as a particle it carries inertia.  When an electron becomes excited or ejected from an atom it absorbs the photon.  When it returns to the atom or slows down it generates a photon.  What I am not sure about is the process of photon absorption by matter.  How is a photon absorbed by an electron?  The ultraviolet light photon wavelength is the most successful at ionization of oxygen.  The wavelength of the photon has to have some geometric  relationship to the atom otherwise the photon is scattered or fluresced by the matter it comes in contact with.  Then there is the case where the photon is absorbed and readmitted from the matter at a shorter wavelength then when it went in.  This apparently cools the matter.  Thermal photons are those photons continually absorbed and radiated by electron oscillations within the atomic structure.  The atom is contiually expanding and contracting it's field of influence.  This also happens with molecular bound atoms.  These thermal photons can be exchanged between colliding molecules and give rise to pressure and heat. 

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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 07:34:36 AM »
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Offline Kator01

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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 02:07:19 PM »
Hi sparks,

you can read here in the work of the german physicist Prof. Turtur, that there ist no static electric field and yes there is always work performed by the zpe in the so called ( misnamed) "electrotatic field":

http://www.ostfalia.de/export/sites/default/de/pws/turtur/FundE/Schrift_03f_englisch.pdf

Regards

Kator01

Offline sparks

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Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2012, 07:39:31 PM »
Hi sparks,

you can read here in the work of the german physicist Prof. Turtur, that there ist no static electric field and yes there is always work performed by the zpe in the so called ( misnamed) "electrotatic field":

http://www.ostfalia.de/export/sites/default/de/pws/turtur/FundE/Schrift_03f_englisch.pdf

Regards

Kator01
   Thanks will do.  Just trying to figure out how an electrostatic field between anode and cathode in a picture tube is able to accelerate an electron enough to penetrate the anode and collide with the glass and give off light.  The electron on acceleration has to emit photons.  So as the field accelerates the electron manufactures light from it's rest mass.  When it strikes the glass it emits high energy photons.  It appears to be a win win solution for mass to energy conversion.  The radiated photons while accelerating come from the electron mass.  In a picture tube we don't see the radiated photons.  In a klystron and magnetron the photons of acceleration are collected and perform work.  The problem I see is that there are'nt alot of free electron's to play around with.  The klystron anode use to get so hot from the deaccelerating photons they had huge problems with it.  The water would go radioactive and all sorts of stuff.  They finally figured out hey lets bendem around with permanent magnets and inject them back into the cathode end for recycle.
Unlike the early tubes that were used for amplification where they needed the space charge density to control the amount of electrons hitting the anode.  And if you want some free electrons why do you have to heat a filament when all prime number elements are room temperature plasma to begin with.?  Edison was such an asshole.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Can a static electric field do work?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2012, 07:39:31 PM »
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