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Author Topic: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets  (Read 20746 times)

Offline wdford

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Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« on: May 15, 2012, 04:28:06 PM »
I have developed a conceptual plan for an over-unity device, which derives its driving forces from a combination of permanent magnets and gravity. It breaks no laws of physics, it uses well-known technology and I can see no flaw in the design. I have limited means at present, and so I would value the opinions of other knowledgeable people before I embark on the cost of hiring somebody to build a prototype. I would welcome other people to replicate it, or to improve on it if they can.

The device would consist of a simple lever with a central pivot/fulcrum, arranged so that the ends travel up and down (like a playground seesaw or teeter-totter). One side is the Power Generation end, and the other side is the Power Output end. The extent of travel up and down would be quite limited (a few inches), although the length of the lever on the Power Output end could be longer and allow for more travel if this is useful.

The Power Output end can be easily connected to a crank, pump, linear alternator or similar device to convert its up-and-down motion into useful work.

Because of the presence of magnets, the Power Generation end would need to be made of a strong non-magnetic substance (e.g. brass).

Attached firmly to the Power Generation end would be a dense mass of some non-magnetic material, such as lead or stone or concrete.

Suspended above that mass on an independent frame would be a very powerful permanent magnet, secured to prevent it from tearing itself loose.

The idea is for the powerful permanent magnet to raise the weight upwards against the pull of gravity, and then to release it to drop back down under the influence of gravity, thus causing a repeated up-and-down movement in the lever.

To provide some means for the permanent magnet to “grip” the non-magnetic mass, a small electromagnet would need to be firmly attached to the upper surface of the mass. Electromagnets can be made to be very powerful with minimum electric current. It’s important to emphasise that the mass is NOT being lifted by the electromagnet, but rather by the much more powerful permanent magnet – the electromagnet merely provides something for the permanent magnet to latch on to.

When the electromagnet is energised by a small current, the two magnetic forces attract each other. The permanent magnet cannot move downward, so the electromagnet and its attached mass must move upward. A bumper must be inserted to prevent the mass from smashing into the permanent magnet, and causing damage.

When the mass reaches its uppermost position, a simple mechanical switch reverses the polarity on the electromagnet. The two magnetic forces now repel each other, and the powerful force of the permanent magnet throws the mass away (downward). Gravity also pulls the mass downward, thus adding even more momentum to the motion.

Springs can be positioned at the uppermost and lowermost extents of the travel of the mass, to protect the mechanism from damaging itself, and to conserve and return some of the energy of its motion. Depending on the springs, a great deal of energy can be conserved. A more expensive model could replace the lever with a full pendulum, with a driving permanent magnet at each upper end of the arc, and an alternator being coupled to the rotating central shaft.

The output device must be designed so that it provides minimal resistance on the mass-raising stroke. The force to provide the upward pull comes 99% from the permanent magnet, so the electrical current needed to power the electromagnet can be minimal. If gravity exerts 20 pounds of downward force on the mass, then the permanent magnet must be able to exert 21 pounds of upward attractive force on the mass, to raise it up.
 
The power generation comes when the mass is hurled downward by the permanent magnet, aided also by gravity (21 permanent-magnet pounds + 20 gravity pounds equals 41 net pounds of downward force). The power derived by the combination of the permanent magnet and gravity will thus easily exceed the minimal current needed to energise the electromagnet, thus leaving a lot left over to be tapped off as useful work.

The amount of force present in the lever would depend on a combination of the mass of the weight, and the strength of the permanent magnet. Weights, magnetic strengths and distances would have to be juggled to find an appropriate combination of variables. The output device must be designed so that it provides minimal resistance on the raising stroke.

The design is so simple that I don’t believe it can be patented. I am happy to open-source it, and to share it freely with anybody who helps to iron out any bugs and make a working model.

I would greatly welcome any feedback and suggestions.





« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 06:08:42 PM by wdford »

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Offline wdford

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 04:51:05 PM »
Sorry, what does that mean?

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 06:02:12 PM »
Sorry, what does that mean?
He's being a pedant.
 
 You should have said "force" rather than power since power = force.velocity
  (or something similar, if I recall correctly).

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 06:02:12 PM »
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Offline wdford

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 06:10:00 PM »
Thanks, I have corrected it. Can you see any flaws in the actual concept?

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:54:07 PM »

...Electromagnets can be made to be very powerful with minimum electric current...
 

 
Such is not the case. That statement is in error. Electromagnets produce a force that
is theoretically exactly balanced to the electrical energy being dissipated within it. You
need to understand the electronic math/physics equations having to do with
electromagnets. Check out wikipedia.org, then do some calculations. The strength of
the magnetic field from a solinoid is proportional to amperes times the number
of turns in the solinoid. But the resistance of the coil is proportional to the length
of wire used in the coil. So based in ohms law you have to increase the voltage
to keep the current constant as you increase the number of turns in coil. Since
watts= amps times volts, the power needs to go up when you have more turns...so
it all blances out. Think of an old fashioned voltmeter where the movement on the
pointer is directly linearly related to volts across the meters coil. The electromagnet
in the meter puts a force against a circular spring linear related to volts.
 
One problem with using magnets is that the force is proportional to 1/(R^2)
This is called the inverse square law of magnetic fields. This is why two magnets
need to be brought relatively close together then a some point they jump together
this jumping is non-linear energy and is very difficult to capture mechanically.
 
The problem you are seeing is that; when designing magnetic circuits, there
are no good magnetic insulators. The exception is the use supercondcutors
but they have refrigeration energy costs. If there was a solid
magnetic insulator  that worked then you could insert it in between two
permanent magnets to stop the attraction, but there is no such thing that
is not a superconductor.
 
If there was you could design a magnetic switch and the switch is the
basis of a motors aramature phase dependent commutator switch.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:54:07 PM »
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Offline kEhYo77

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 05:21:35 AM »
Hi.
My advice to your idea would be to build it in a form of a pendulum with
electromagnets on both sides and permanent magnets attached to the swinging mass.
Please study the principles shown in videos on that site http://www.gap-power.com/
That should give you a good start :)

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 02:28:39 PM »
Hi
 You can also use two magnetic strips helping the weights to be shifted... Thing is to tune correctly the distance between strip and iron weight & shape of strips to avoid the 'sticking points'.. :o /do you remember the V-track?/

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 02:28:39 PM »
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Offline wdford

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 02:40:14 PM »
Hi Mark
Using a permanent magnet together with an electromagnet provides the “switch” you refer to! When the electromagnet is positive the attractive force is present, when the polarity is reversed the magnetic force is repelling, and when the electromagnet is deactivated there is no magnetic force at all between the permanent magnet and the non-magnetic mass.

The resistance in the electromagnet is not really an issue, as we will use minimal current – the force in this attraction comes from the permanent magnet. The purpose of the small electromagnet is just to provide the “switch”.

The distance issue is solved by minimising the distance the mass can travel. The lever can be longer on the other side if needed.

Offline telecom

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 08:01:14 PM »
Hi Mark
Using a permanent magnet together with an electromagnet provides the “switch” you refer to! When the electromagnet is positive the attractive force is present, when the polarity is reversed the magnetic force is repelling, and when the electromagnet is deactivated there is no magnetic force at all between the permanent magnet and the non-magnetic mass.

The resistance in the electromagnet is not really an issue, as we will use minimal current – the force in this attraction comes from the permanent magnet. The purpose of the small electromagnet is just to provide the “switch”.

The distance issue is solved by minimising the distance the mass can travel. The lever can be longer on the other side if needed.
Hi wdford,
believe it or not, but I was contemplating about a very similar concept for some time.
I made some calculations - the pm magnet rated 1000 lbs should be able to generate approx 25 W full time, less 5W for
the solenoid, so the total balance should be around 20 w.
I found these magnets, which I believe should do the trick:
http://apexdistribution.stores.yahoo.net/350lbraeamaw1.html
(3 of them).
And this coil for a solenoid:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-864
IMHO the reason why all the magnetic devices don't work, is because they don't use magnets strong enough - and the magnet is the source!
Alex

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 08:01:14 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 08:20:45 PM »
This an idea of a test set up for determining if any extra power can be achieved.
The leverage between input and output stages is 1:10.
Solenoid is in blue, and PM in red.
The stroke between the PM and solenoid ~1/4", which makes travel of the output ~2.5".

Offline telecom

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 12:40:16 AM »
IMHO the reason why all the magnetic devices don't work, is because the magnet isn't the source!

IMHO the reason why all the magnetic devices don't work, is because there isn't a source!

I also had the same idea for many years.But now I've realized something... Let me ask you: For how long  can you hold suspended 350 lbs?
I bet, not for very long.
At the same time, this little beast can do it forever - it is only loosing 1% of strength in 100 years.
http://apexdistribution.stores.yahoo.net/350lbraeamaw1.html

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 12:40:16 AM »
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Offline Thing

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2012, 12:42:43 PM »

Offline gauschor

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 06:01:59 PM »
Ah interesting. This device was on my To-Do list as well. It might better fit into this topic http://www.overunity.com/12189/video-working-gravity-wheel/15/#.UALpH3KMTrc
I wonder if this works or not. Pease let us know.

Offline Thing

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2012, 09:29:07 PM »
Hi
Finding wright place where to put stuff on is littlebit difficult but hope is still.

Thing

Offline lumen

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Re: Gravity-powered device with permanent magnets
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 12:58:10 AM »
I have always considered gravity machines or magnet motors to be impossible and a good concept usually just hides the decption and keeps you from seeing it cannot work.
I found a mechanical configuration that seems to challenge the inventor and appears to make both gravity and magnet motors possible! I will make a sketch and everyone will then see how to build it.
 

 

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