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Solid States Devices => Joule Thief => Topic started by: Lynxsteam on May 11, 2012, 07:26:52 AM

Title: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 11, 2012, 07:26:52 AM
The Joule Lamp is a takeoff on the work many here have been doing.  Its a cross breed between Laser Saber's Joule Ringer 2.0 and a tesla coil.  I liked the simplicity and elegance of a transformer with a transistor that can light 110 volt lighting very efficiently.  I didn't like the buzz and the difficulty in finding the right E core transformer.  The simplicity and quietness of an aircore coil is convenient.
The idea of reverse biasing the transistor with the wire from the light is novel and interesting.  The small signal transistor works but is right on the edge at 220 ma and 12 volts.  I have burned up a lot of transistors trying to find the limit.
So I went back to the 2N3055 with a germanium diode across the emitter to base and bingo! no problems.  The light is very bright and I can adjust from 350 ma down to 200 ma by moving the primary coil down.  If I stretch the 27 turn primary the length of the secondary the ma draw goes up.  If I scrunch the primary down the ma draw goes down.
On 6 volts the light is dim and the ma draw is 90-135 so nothing spectacular except the light dims with lower voltage.
I wanted a 12 volt supply so the 2N3055 is the answer.
Everything else about the setup is the same just replace the smaller transistor with the 2N3055.  A Tip3055 would probably work fine too.
I attached a schematic.  Everything is the same except the transistor which is now the 2N3055 power transistor.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: conradelektro on May 11, 2012, 03:12:46 PM
When I click on the Joule Ringer Thread http://www.overunity.com/10179/joule-ringer/msg322132/#new (http://www.overunity.com/10179/joule-ringer/msg322132/#new) I get a blanc page?

@Lynxsteam:

Nice lamp, I will try your set up (no resistor from base to positive rail, diode from base to ground).

My coil-zilla (diameter 163 mm, length 340 mm, opposing coil halves) is almost ready.

The secondary (finished) has two opposing windings of 400 turns each (800 turns in total) and the primary (on the way) will have two opposing windings of 50 turns but a tap after each ten turns (100 tuns in total), so that I can test different step up factors easily.

This tapped primary should have about the same function as stretching or compressing the primary along the secondary. In my design, using two times ten turns of the primary will have the highest step up rate (intended for a 2 Volt to 3 Volt power supply) and using two times 50 windings of the primary will have the lowest step up rate (intended for a 12 Volt power supply).

Secondary coil: copper wire 0.3 mm2 with plastic and silk insulation (I bought the silk coated wire just for the looks)

Primary coil: bell wire with plastic insulation (the thicker insulation should create a longer primary coil to cover more space on the secondary coil)

Greetings, Conrad

P.S. The opposing coil halves were suggested by Peanutbutter 29.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 11, 2012, 05:05:28 PM
That coil looks really great!  I like the idea of multiple taps.  It may work better than my small diameter ones. 
Today I found just the right sized plastic tube to go around the secondary.  Its a thin wall 1-1/2" drain extension from Home Depot.  Now I can wind my primary a lot better and have better insulation between coils.
I also found that LaserSaber's 2N3055 is the best for the circuit and there is no need for the diode.  Now its just the aircore coil and transistor.  The CFL is bright now on 12 volts.
I am going to mount the air core transformer on a board and show where the wires go.  I think it will be much clearer.  And then see how many bulbs I can light.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on May 11, 2012, 05:24:23 PM
@Lynxsteam:
Last night I wound a new secondary to the specs you have given.  I will try to replicate as close as possible to your working model before looking at any modifications.  Your DIY videos are great and this is going to be a lot fun.  I really like the idea of the spacer tube between primary and secondary, please let us know how that works out.  Have you tried a variable resistor to change the current draw and if so, does it work?
 
Thanks again,
Brad S  :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2012, 05:34:38 PM
Hi folks, Hi lynxsteam, thanks for sharing again.
I will be trying this setup as soon as I find a 3/4" diameter tube of some kind, can the primary be wound directly on top of the secondary I wonder, we will see.
In meantime I will try my 1-1/2" diameter pvc tube that I already had wound with 30awg wire, will have to use two 18awg wires in parallel to come close to your 12awg wire.

Also, I cannot access the joule ringer thread either.

peace love light
tyson  ;)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 11, 2012, 05:35:36 PM
Here's a picture of the plastic tube that can slip over the secondary.  The primary can be wound on this very cleanly.  I have a suspicion this extra insulation will be helpful.  If I wind my bell wire right on the secondary the bulb dims and power draw is up.  If I keep the bell wire off the secondary by about 1/8" - 1/4" its much better. 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
Hi lynxsteam, lol, that's the exact pvc tube I have for my secondary tower coil.
What did you use for the secondary tube, thanks.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 11, 2012, 06:20:51 PM
Use 3/4" PVC shed 40 pipe for the secondary.  I should confirm that with 30 awg wire this outer tube will fit over.  It will probably be like a glove, but I will check this afternoon.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Qwert on May 11, 2012, 06:44:25 PM
...
When I click on the Joule Ringer Thread http://www.overunity.com/10179/joule-ringer/msg322132/#new (http://www.overunity.com/10179/joule-ringer/msg322132/#new) I get a blanc page?
...
This error is a common nuisance to this forum: you never know which link won't work today. I have the exact link to the Joule Ringer; just change the last number appearing in the link to get the desired post/page:http://www.overunity.com/10179/joule-ringer/80/

just change the number 80 at the end of the link for desired post number.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 11, 2012, 07:38:29 PM
Hi folks, I realized my cfl was probably a larger one than I thought, so I gutted a 13 watt I had and it lighted the same, then I used a larger transistor and it lighted the cfl much better, though I accidentally placed a wire across base and positive and fried my last large transistor, well at least I know it works good even with the larger 1-1/2" diameter secondary tube and I was using 25 turns of I think 20 gauge speaker wire, though less turns on the secondary will probably make the cfl much brighter.

By the way, I still cannot access page 32 of the joule ringer thread, though I can access all the other pages, odd.
And yes I used your trick conrad and still can't access page 32.
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: conradelektro on May 11, 2012, 07:46:00 PM
@Qwert: thank you for the link to the Joule Ringer thread, I could read it, but posting to it does strange things like the post is not visible but is listed on the home page.

I could wind the tapped primary of Coil-Zilla. But only two times 40 turns fitted on the paper which I have prepared on top of the secondary.

I still have to make some sort of stand or support for the coil which will also be the "frame" for the intended reading lamp. A bit over sized the whole thing, but strange things have to look strange otherwise nobody will believe in the strangeness.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 12, 2012, 04:33:37 AM
Great looking coil.  It is strange looking and I am sure it will be a source of conversation.  It would be a shame if no one noticed it.

I uploaded part 3 of how to make the Joule Lamp.  For this forum the most interesting part will be about 2/3 of the way through.  I show multiple CFLs and little increase in amp draw.  An AV plug CFL running off one wire, and the effects of changing the primary on brightness, and amp draw.  Hopefully seeing this on video and the drawings will help others to replicate and improve it.  I need to try some LED bulbs on this circuit.

I also built this circuit on an actual board which greatly helps to show how simple it is.  Video link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_-6fyeGEaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_-6fyeGEaw)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 12, 2012, 07:58:00 AM
  Thanks for your innovative research on this, Lynxsteam.  Your vids are clear and very informative.  I'd like to try this.

Question -- on your part 3, you show one CFL lit up "before the AV plug".  I don't understand how this CFL is connected to output power -- can you clarify?
Also, would you recommend (based on your experience) using "warm" or "cool" CFL's?   

PS -- I found some 13W- 60W equivalent CFL's at a local store on sale for 50 cents each; bought a bunch; made by "Greenlite".
 MUCH cheaper than 120V LED-bulbs! 
I'm very interested in emergency 12V lighting also.  I think we're gonna need it when the electrical grid goes out (for a reason such as EMP burst, for example...).
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 12, 2012, 01:33:47 PM
I like the whiter light, it seems brighter on these circuits.  But it is personal preference. 
These CFLs will light up if just one wire is attached similar to Tesla Coil output.  I tried a lot of things in that video.  The brightest output will be AV plug or connected across the two AC outputs. 
I think to use LED bulbs the primary turns need to be 10:1 ratio.  With 20:1 like I am using here the output voltage is too high for LEDs.  On closer inspection I count 680 turns on the secondary I am using.  I tried a 3watt LED bulb and it works with 50 turns but the amp draw was crazy high at 1.5 amps.  Maybe with 70 turns carefully placed on the primary the amp draw will drop to where it should be.  The E core Joule Ringer 2.0 draws .357 amps for this same LED bulb.

Here is the circuit diagram using the 2N3055 transistor for 12 volts and CFL bulbs.  It shows better just how simple this is.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 12, 2012, 05:16:13 PM
Thanks for the reply and for the well-drawn schematic, Lynxsteam!

I wonder how much of the "Tesla coil" operation is due simply to air-core transformer effects, and how much is due to TESLA-COIL effects based on resonance?  I'm particularly interested in the latter...   How can we find out?

Quote
wiki:   A Tesla coil transformer operates in a significantly different fashion from a conventional (i.e., iron core) transformer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer). In a conventional transformer, the windings are very tightly coupled and voltage gain is determined by the ratio of the numbers of turns in the windings. This works well at normal voltages but, at high voltages, the insulation between the two sets of windings is easily broken down and this prevents iron cored transformers from running at extremely high voltages without damage.
With Tesla coils, unlike a conventional transformer (which may couple 97%+ of the fields between windings) a Tesla coil's windings are "loosely" coupled, with a large air gap, and thus the primary and secondary typically share only 10–20% of their respective magnetic fields. Instead of a tight coupling, the coil transfers energy (via loose coupling) from one oscillating resonant circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_circuit) (the primary) to the other (the secondary) over a number of RF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-frequency) cycles.
As the primary energy transfers to the secondary, the secondary's output voltage increases until all of the available primary energy has been transferred to the secondary (less losses). Even with significant spark gap losses, a well designed Tesla coil can transfer over 85% of the energy initially stored in the primary capacitor to the secondary circuit. The voltage achievable from a Tesla coil can be significantly greater than a conventional transformer, because the secondary winding is a long single layer solenoid widely separated from the surroundings and therefore well insulated, Also, the voltage per turn in any coil is higher because the rate of change of magnetic flux is high at high frequencies.
With the loose coupling the voltage gain is instead proportional to the square root (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_root) of the ratio of secondary and primary inductances (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductance). Because the secondary winding is wound to be resonant at the same frequency as the primary, this voltage gain is also proportional to the square root of the ratio of the primary capacitor to the stray capacitance of the secondary.

Can you tell us --What are the voltage and frequency of your output signal?



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 12, 2012, 06:20:14 PM
That "wiki" writeup explains a lot and very well.  The setup I am using is very much like a tesla coil and acts like it.  Its kind of a Hybrid borrowing from the JouleRinger 2.0 in that it is oscillating with the help of reverse biasing.  However, the fact that the CFL will light with the AV plug off a single wire and not connected at all shows that indeed frequency is very high.  It also shows that the circuit will oscillate without any direct connection back to the base.  In this configuration I am sure the radio interference may be a problem.
I am hoping more people will explore this circuit and shed more light and possibly make some break through improvements.  An air core coil has advantages and disadvantages over a ferrite transformer.
This circuit will light LEDs but to do it well is going to take some experimenting.
I don't have an oscilloscope or a meter that will register the output accurately.  I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 13, 2012, 01:45:45 AM
That "wiki" writeup explains a lot and very well.  The setup I am using is very much like a tesla coil and acts like it.  Its kind of a Hybrid borrowing from the JouleRinger 2.0 in that it is oscillating with the help of reverse biasing.  However, the fact that the CFL will light with the AV plug off a single wire and not connected at all shows that indeed frequency is very high.  It also shows that the circuit will oscillate without any direct connection back to the base. ...

  Yes, it was a good write-up, and you have a good point regarding the evidence for very high frequency, which implies Tesla-coil action.  Which is exciting to me -- and I congratulate your progress on this!

  I have now dis-assembled two CFL's, and have looked closely at the two wires on each end of the fluorescent tube.  Clearly, these were not Intended to be tied together, yet this works for your device -- to get them to light. 

 You note that " the fact that the CFL will light with the AV plug off a single wire " -- makes me wonder if you just used one wire, if it would light up as brightly as your method (your how-to vid) of joining the outlet-wires together on each outlet-port of the bulb?  or perhaps better, join the "like wires" together in pairs, and see if this increases the light output.
- Steve

PS -- also, I'm pleased at the electronics parts in the guts of these CFL's -- all that for 50 cents!  (at a local store, on sale)

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 13, 2012, 06:53:51 AM
Hi folks, Hi lynxsteam, I found a 2n3055 in my parts box and fired up my setup again, it lights the bulb at a decent brightness, though I am using a 1-1/2" diameter secondary tube 30awg and 52 turns of speaker wire, i think its 20 gauge.
I have no way of telling the amp draw or the voltage on the battery under load, because the circuit must be interfering with both meters.
When I place volt dmm across 12 volt battery, even at 500 volt setting it doesn't read anything except to say HV.
peace love light
tyson :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 13, 2012, 07:19:25 AM
   Great to learn more about Tesla coils, and tuning them for resonance conditions.

This site has a straightforward method for tuning:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~tesla/html/tuneacoil.htm (http://www.frontiernet.net/%7Etesla/html/tuneacoil.htm)

Note that the primary coil should be at one end, which is at a node on the secondary.   Attachment quotes from the above, to explain why resonance-finding is important. 
One can move the tap on the primary coil to find A resonance, but this might not be the best = the fundamental or primary resonance.   It seems this is basically what you did, lynx -- moving the tap on the primary coil to get the best lighting.   I'm thinking that a bare copper wire would facilitate this, making it easy to move the tap with a small alligator clip for instance.  Again, you may miss the primary resonance...   

Hmmmm... lots to think about here.

Basically, I understand the secondary is an antenna, receiving signal from the primary winding.  As in a radio, one has to do some tuning to maximize the pick-up signal.  A 1/4-wave antenna for the secondary appears to be best.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 13, 2012, 10:12:47 PM
Hi folks, here is my replication of LynxSteams joule lamp.
It is 11" tall 30awg wire secondary tower coil, 1-1/2" diameter pvc.
with 48 primary turns of I think 20 gauge speaker wire.
13 watt gutted warm white cfl.
12 volt battery input.
2n3055 transistor with heatsink.
No resistors or diodes are used.
Transistor/heatsink does get rather warm, though that can be adjusted by moving primary up or down.
I do not know amperage or even voltage on battery under load, as meters become non-functional.
Though I can get an idea of battery load by observing battery voltage recovery after disconnecting circuit.

Here is a video clip showing cfl lighting up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAyAUUAyR70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAyAUUAyR70)
peace love light
tyson ;)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 13, 2012, 10:34:38 PM
Super Joule Ringer 2.0 Comparison

Below is a link to a video showing some testing I did with the Super Joule Ringer 2.0 (SJR 2.0) and the Lynx Joule Lamp (LJL).  The SJR 2.0 is very impressive with LEDs.  Amazing! actually compared to the LJL and a standard 12/120 inverter.  But not so good with CFL bulbs.  I think it takes a very high frequency to light CFL's and the ferrite core starts saturating in the SJR 2.0.

The LJL is Ok with one LED bulb but the power output doesn't adjust so as more LEDs are added the power is divided.  The LJL is great with high frequency and pretty good with CFL's but lacks the power to light more than one or two bright enough to be useable.  The video also shows just how forgiving the closed circuit LJL is with tuning, and effects of adjusting turns, and coil spacing
.
Perhaps this air core coil can be made more useful with a few added components, maybe an adjustable capacitor.
Anyway, hopefully these experiments will lead to some ephiphany.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFULp1Ceofg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFULp1Ceofg)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 14, 2012, 12:32:56 AM
Hi lynxsteam, thanks for sharing the video.
What do you think of my replication of your joule lamp.
Also, do you or anyone have any idea why you can measure amps with your dmm and mine just goes haywire and no reading is measurable, thanks.
Also lynxsteam, have you tried placing a volt meter across your battery while the circuit is running, I'm curious to know if you can read the voltage, as mine just shows either HV or it shows like .2 volts jumping around.
Though it's a 12 volt battery, so I wonder if it is doing harm to the battery.
peace love light
tyson :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 14, 2012, 03:59:14 AM
Very Nice!  I like the differences too.  The only way to find improvements is to make some changes.   Your bulb seems to be very bright.

Ok, sorry I didn't respond to your multimeter questions before.   No idea why your meter is not reading correctly.  I get DC voltage readings off the battery while the circuit is running.  Resting voltage on the small 12 volt battery pack might be 12.52, and while the circuit is running it may drop down to 12.35.  With no bulbs on the secondary output side I get 243 volts give or take.  If I brush up to the output side of the circuit with a finger or hand it feels like a hot burning sensation.  Not a shock but like intense heat.  It is something to avoid.

Things for you to try:
Get your meter working
Then try different primary turns looking for best brightness, lowest amp draw, best spread of the primary spacing.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 14, 2012, 05:05:09 AM
Hi lynxsteam, thanks for the reply and the kind words.
I will have to sort out this meter thing so I can know what difference any changes make.
Yes the 13 watt cfl is fairly bright, I would say it is probably close to 70% of full brightness.
My battery is 12.55 volts noload, then when connecting the circuit for a few minutes and disconnecting and checking voltage right away, it is around 12.43 volts and climbing slowly back up to around 12.53 volts.
Just to give some indication until I get the meters sorted.
peace love light
tyson :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: conradelektro on May 14, 2012, 01:45:27 PM
Super Joule Ringer 2.0 Comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFULp1Ceofg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFULp1Ceofg)

@Lynxsteam:

I just looked at your comparison video. Thank you for showing your tests, that really helps. It demonstrates, that LaserSaber did find out something new indeed and that it is his special transformer. Your air core results agree with my air core experiments.

I still have to do some experiments with my CoilZilla, but at the moment ordinary daily life chores keep me busy.

It seems that an air core of the size as you (me and some others) used can not transfer more than a few hundred milliamperes because inductance is not high enough (the air core saturates). The CFLs (just the tube) start to light nicely with this limited power.

The transformer proposed by LaserSaber has a huge inductance which seems to do the trick when the step up rate is rather low (12 to 110 Volt for the LED-lamps in contrast to 12 to 600 Volt for the CFLs).

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: cyber19 on May 14, 2012, 03:47:29 PM
It would be nice if one of you would try the primary on the INSIDE tube either air or around a couple different types of metal rod.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on May 14, 2012, 05:06:27 PM
@Lynxsteam:
Due to yard work and Mother’s Day, did not get a lot of time to work on this project.  I have all parts and do have L2 wound on ¾” schedule 40 PCV cut to 9” length and wrapped with 8” 30gauge magnet wire.  Found the sleeve, same as you showed, cut to 9”.  I wrapped it with 20gauge bell wire, 42 turns with a tap every 3 turns.  I really like the board setup as it looks to be more conducive to testing.  Will mount mine on a board as well.  I am attempting to be as nearly identical to your setup as possible, to eliminate any chance of failure.  Hopefully, I can finish this evening and get to some testing.
@SkyWatcher123:
Your video is very encouraging.  I first wound my L2 nearly identical to yours.  Mine is 1 3/8” diameter and 11” in length.  Did you wind L1 directly onto L2 or use some sort of sleeve so you could move L1 up and down to find your sweet spot?  How tightly did you wind L1?
@cyber19:
Those are some nice suggestions to try.
@conradelektro:
Did you get CoilZilla to fire?
 :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 14, 2012, 05:30:21 PM
I think the only way to get the same performance as the E-Core ferrite transformer is to get bigger.  There is only so much energy we can store in a 8.5" long 30 awg wire coil, whereas the ferrite core can store up and give back a lot of energy.
By the way, I tried placing the 26 turn primary at the middle and it works very well.

Looking back I was just intrigued with the one transistor circuit and wondered if it could work with an air core.

I hope some of you explore this area and see if there is anymore optimization.  My coil seems to max out at 6 watts output.  That's Ok for one light, but to be competitive with the Super Joule Ringer 2.0, we need to get to the point where we can light more LEDs or the same more efficiently.  The "bar" is set high.

Today I will wind a secondary much larger with 20 awg and use 10 gauge insulated for the primary and see what I can get.  I will also use a 10:1 ratio to compare output to the E-Core 10:1 transformer.  Fun, fun, fun!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 14, 2012, 07:06:32 PM
Hi folks, Hi brads, I wound the plastic coated speaker wire directly over secondary coil and just used the ends and tied them together to give the coil a little tension and it is movable up or down to find sweet spot.
Hi lynxsteam, those tests sound like a good idea, though I was having trouble just getting 24 awg to oscillate on the secondary, maybe you will have better luck.
I still have no conclusive amperage measurements yet.
peace love light
tyson :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 14, 2012, 11:09:08 PM
Success!  This design is scaleable.   
Below are pictures of the components for a 13" version.  The secondary is 20 awg essex magnet wire wrapped on a 1-1/2" PVC pipe 13" long.  There are 336 turns.  The primary is 12 awg home type stranded electrical wire wrapped on a 2" Pvc pipe 13" long, 33 turns spaced evenly across.  The circuit is the same reversed biased 2N3055 and the battery is 12 volt.

The lights came right on.  No discernible drop in brightness 1-4 bulbs.  Amp draw for four bulbs was 1.6 A.  That's 19.68 watts to light four 7.5 watt LED bulbs.  19.68/30=65.6% of the power.  The brightness was actually better than the small SJR2.0, but this circuit was designed to reach 25 watts and I don't think my small E-Core transformer is designed for that.  Which design is better?  Hmmm....  The limit for both of these designs is the reversed biased transistor.

I am no electrical engineer, so I hope maybe someone can make some improvements.  It is simple though.  Any thoughts on the amp limit on the reversed biased 2N3055?  No need to make this bigger than what the transistor can handle.



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 15, 2012, 04:55:28 AM
Congratulations, Lynx!  indeed its time for lumens/watt testing.Let me see if I can explain how easy this really is, how I'm going about it.  I would like to do these measurements, but I'm way behind you on the builds (you are fast!), so I'm going to encourage you (and all) to build a simple light box.  Here's the vid I put up just now:

http://youtu.be/XoGJ_tG2QBM (http://youtu.be/XoGJ_tG2QBM)

  Vid shows the "light box" I put together with my son today for these devices and how it is calibrated.
We first take one bulb of KNOWN lumens output, specified on the package and  place the bulb in the light box.  (I use the middle position on the power strip as seen in the video.) Turn the bulb on.  We note the lux as measured by the light/ lux meter.  We check that the Watts-input is close to that specified for the bulb (on the package again).   

 
The package on this CFL bulb says it puts out 900 Lumens (Lm) running at 13W.   
 I find with repeated measurements -- when the CFL bulb has warmed up -- the light output is 10920 Lux (average).  Then, I divide:
900 Lumens/10920 Lux = 0.082 Lm/Lux.   

 
I repeated this calibration for an LED light, 600 Lumens running at 9.5 W is seen from the Light Box as 7280 Lux, again 0.082 Lm/Lux for this light box.  (Each light box will have its own conversion factor, Lm/Lux, which can be calibrated in just this way.)

 
Repeated for a 60 W bulb, 850 Lm / 10760 lux observed = 0.079 Lm/Lux.
Repeated for a 40 W, 75 W, 90 W and 100 W incandescent bulbs also, the average is about 0.080 Lm/Lux +/- approx 6%. You can just use 3-4 light bulbs for calibration. Close enough to really help us in this research!

 
_____

 So I put in a second bulb (done with incandescent and CFL) in the front position, and got very close to the same 0.080 conversion factor. That is, the second bulb DOUBLED (very close) the lux light output on the meter.  When I put a bulb in the back position (near the switch on the power strip), the conversion factor was about 0.085 showing that a bulb in this position gives a non-linear response; which is OK with this separate calibration for the two bulbs in these positions.

For three CFL bulbs, in the three positions with adapters as seen in the vid, I found:

2700 Lumens / 29600 Lux on the meter  = 0.091
(a larger conversion factor as I expected, because less lux reaching the light meter with three bulbs in this configuration)

____________

Now that the box has been calibrated, we can place an UNKNOWN light source into the box in the same spot, or two  or three light sources in the locations described, and measure the light output in Lux on the meter.  Then,
Lumens output = 0.08 * Lux (for one bulb,as read on the meter). 

For more bulbs, would use the appropriate calibration factor we have determined... Easy!


Finally, we determine the input power (if from a battery and DC, P = I*V, current times voltage), and calculate Lumens-out per Watts input -- Lm/W.

 
  The idea is to MAXIMIZE Lm/W in various test devices, such as Lasersaber's SJR 2.0, and Lynxsteam's Teslamp.  (Great work, gentlemen!)  I strongly recommend use of a light box for quantitative measurements of Lumens-out/Watts-in so we can make solid scientific progress. 

For comparison, we calculate a few known values from bulb packages:
Incandescent, e.g., 850 Lm for 60W bulb => 14 Lm/W
Fluorescent, CFL, e.g. 900 Lm for 13 W bulb => 69 Lm/W
LED, e.g., 600 Lm for 9.5 W bulb => 63 Lm/W.

 
I strongly recommend use of a light box for quantitative measurements.

  A value above  100 Lm/W would be very interesting!  Let's see what we can come up with.   
 
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 15, 2012, 05:18:57 AM
Attached shows the light meter I used...  Cheap and good! from Amazon.
Input power meter was useful also, monitors input power if 120V 60 Hz -- from ebay, see attached.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 15, 2012, 06:23:57 AM
PS -- size of the box doesn't matter too much; needs to clear the lamps by a few inches at least (temp concerns).

I was looking for a Xerox box, removable lid would be nice.  Found a tall box with top flaps -- works well.
Size of box will affect your calibration factor, which you get from measurements from bulbs with known-lumens (see posts above). 

Smallish holes admit wires for power-strip and light-meter as needed.  Took my son and I about 20 minutes to build this morning.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 15, 2012, 01:32:35 PM
JouleSeeker,

Great work on the Lightbox.  There is a lot of ambiguity when experimenters are quoting brightness.  Words like "fairly bright with just 600 ma" is pretty loose science.   I always start with loose science to get in the ballpark quickly and then circuits and methods need to be tuned.  I will be happy to send you a 25 watt DC converter as I have built.  It would be great if you would test it for efficiency.  You have spent the money on the Lightbox, no need for us to both duplicate.

There are simple ways to tune the Lynx Joule Lamp circuit without bleeding power through resistors.  Today I will do a video showing how a small 12 v solar panel can easily power LED bulbs. 
Title: Yippee!
Post by: b_rads on May 15, 2012, 03:46:55 PM
 8)
Got my LJL (Lynx Joule Lamp) put together last night on a test board and it works.  This replication was built as near the same specs as Lynxsteam showed.  Running off 12 Volts, I can adjust the current to just below 100 mA and up to 400 mA.  The interesting thing I noticed, when started at 400 mA and allowed to warm up, I could drop the current to 200 ma without any observable degradation in light output.  Below 200 mA and the light gets considerably dimmer.  Using the taps, the minimum number of winds that the light would start up was when the current was highest and the bulb the brightest.  Increasing the number of winds lowered the current draw and the bulb got dimmer (sounds crazy huh).  Next, I need to chart the taps and current draw and graph out to see how this is working.  Thanks again Lynxsteam for the wonderful plans and vids that made this a relatively simple build.
 
Brad S   :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 15, 2012, 03:50:02 PM
JouleSeeker,

Great work on the Lightbox.  There is a lot of ambiguity when experimenters are quoting brightness.  Words like "fairly bright with just 600 ma" is pretty loose science.   I always start with loose science to get in the ballpark quickly and then circuits and methods need to be tuned.  I will be happy to send you a 25 watt DC converter as I have built.  It would be great if you would test it for efficiency.  You have spent the money on the Lightbox, no need for us to both duplicate.

This is very kind of you, Lynxsteam!  much appreciated and YES, I will test it out.  Glad to do it.

At the same time, I'm hoping some researchers will join in the measurement of light output using the light-box technique -- or some OTHER method that can likewise be calibrated.  I think that such measurements will help us progress more rapidly.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 15, 2012, 04:08:12 PM
Awesome!  and a much prettier build too.  Your help in discovering the best setup is much appreciated.

Here is a video showing the LJL with 45 watts of LED warm light bulbs off the larger air-core setup.  I thought this would max at 25 watt output but here its putting out 30 watts (consuming 30 watts).  Next up is to evaluate the light output off 30 watts consumption.  I am excited about this circuit because I know two church groups that install "rain catchers" in the Carribean and bringing some light for these people would be huge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yftaQD-hsPY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yftaQD-hsPY)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on May 15, 2012, 07:35:56 PM

Hi Joules  Burglars,

Thanks a lot for all to all of you and specially to Lynxsteam.
This is real Open Source:
clair explanations;
successfull replications;
witty suggestions;
a lot of very informative vids;
no exotic components or parts...

For my part, and for the moment, I would like to ask a question.
Is this LJL CCT interpretation/re-sketching right?
Or I am mixing the wires?  My electronic abilities are not too good. :P
This CCT (CirCuiT) is not conventional. Is it?

Very Best
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 15, 2012, 08:17:55 PM
Very nice drawing.  Yes, you have it right. 

I have reversed a few wires on accident and it wont work, but thankfully it doesn't fry the transistor.
I am not sure that the reverse winding of primary from secondary matters, maybe someone here knows.  I just don't modify because it works.  I wind the secondary CW and primary CCW.

If you want to run CFL bulbs you need to have a turn ratio of about 20:1.  For the LED bulbs about 10:1.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: conradelektro on May 15, 2012, 10:28:06 PM
First tests with CoilZilla:

CFLs (tube only) work nicely at 12 Volts (2 x 40 turns primary).

CFLs (tube only) also work at 6 Volt (20 + 30 turns primary).

Some LED-Lamps (as bought for 220 Volt) work at 6 Volt  (2 x 40 turns primary).

In order to run 220 V LED-Lamps at 12 Volt, one needs more turns for the primary (may be 2 x 80 turns).

Also the CFLs at 12 Volt could need a few more turns (may be 2 x 50 turns primary).

A 10K resistor between the base of the transistor and the positive rail is not really necessary but the circuit starts swinging more reliably when it is present.

The MJE17004 transistor worked better than the 2N3055, which often did not start to swing when power was switched on (also a resistor at the base did not help with the 2N3055).

It is possible to light LED-lamps with this coil at 2 to 3 Volt (2 x 30 turn primary), CFLs started at 3 Volt.

I bought some 220 Volt LED-lamps which did not work at all (they blinked). So, not all 220 Volt LED-lamp types will work, it depends on the internal circuit of these lamps. May be they will work with a 2 x 80 turn primary.

I will put a new primary on CoilZilla (2 x 80 turns, taps at 40, 50, 60, 70), but it will take time.

Remember, CoilZilla has opposing coil halves. I do not know whether opposing coil halves are really necessary, because I would have to wind a similar coil without opposing coil halves for comparison.

The power consumption was a bit less than the Wattage specified on the lamps. But for optimal power transfer between primary and secondary the coil probably needs more turns for the primary. Eventually the coil has to be adapted for a specific lamp and a specific supply voltage (I aim for a 12 Volt power supply and a 5 Watt LED lamp or two 2.5 Watt LED lamps).

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 15, 2012, 11:12:33 PM
Hi folks, nice work everyone.
Lynsteam, I can confirm the advantage of these types of circuits, though I made a comparison test using the standard joule ringer 2.0, 2n3055 transistor with a large stock transformer and labelled 15 watt cfl.
Test 1) I used a 12 volt to 120 volt vector inverter to power non-modified 15 watt cfl, amp draw was 2.2 amps or around 26.4 watts.
Test 2) Used joule ringer 2.0 circuit with 12 volt input, 2n3055 transistor, no resistors or diodes, powering non-modified 15 watt cfl, amp draw was 1.2 amps or around 14.4 watts.
In both tests, the bulb brightness looked equal to my eyes.
The 2n3055 transistor in test 2 had no noticeable heat.

If anything, these tests may just prove that these cfl bulbs have incorrectly tuned power factors and these homemade circuits cure that problem.
Though It looks like your tests lynxsteam, also confirm that at least the led bulbs you tested, also have incorrectly tuned power factor or these circuits are just more efficient.
What this means is, we can use these circuits to fully light non-modified cfls and led bulbs for almost twice as long on a 12 volt battery and could be converted to use AC wall power to lower the power bill.
peace love light
tyson ;) :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on May 15, 2012, 11:37:46 PM
hi folks, here is a video showing the non-modified 15 watt cfl lighting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlajB1bRU3w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlajB1bRU3w)
peace love light
tyson
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on May 16, 2012, 02:02:08 AM
Hi Lynx_Steam,

Thank your for answering and for your precisions.
IMO, this device is really amazing.
I will replicate it as best as I'm able to  and as soon as my natural laziness allows. :o

Should I dare? Another question please?
In your vid:
"Lynx Joule Lamp - Part 3"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_-6fyeGEaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_-6fyeGEaw)
At about 8' 12", You use only one HV wire. Do you not?
No apparent potential difference.
That is kinda interesting indeed!
Are there any small diodes here?
Is it some Tesla's "magical trick"?

Very Best
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 16, 2012, 02:23:38 AM
Great work everyone!  I get a weird feeling I am barging in here and usurping other people's limelight after all their hard work.  I would be happy to step back and let you all experiment.  It is not my intention to take anything away from all the really great experimenters here.  I do not intend to profit off any of this research.  Its just so much much fun!

Anyway.....Great work on the Coilzilla, Skywatcher, Jouleseeker, Brad and others replicating and exploring these devices.  I got a much more excited feeling after building the larger version of the 30+ watt LJL.  Somehow lighting one single LED or  one CFL isn't that exciting anymore.  Pushing the limits is a lot more fun.  "Go big or go home".

Answer to question.  If the circuit isn't a closed circuit the coil will act like a Tesla coil and light a CFL off one wire.  You can also hook up a CFL as a AV plug with two opposing diodes and it will light bright.  In this configuration radio interference could be a potential problem.  You can also light CFLs and LEDs wirelessly at about 6".

The most promising direction I see here is discovering best number of turns, location of primary and going for best power usage.  The experiment I did today confirmed that we can get a lot of watts out of the air-coil and stay in oscillation.  Then we need to back up and use those big amps efficiently.  I think the single power transistor can cope with 5 amps reversed biased.  That would be 60 watts!  Enough to light several rooms.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on May 16, 2012, 03:01:50 AM

Great work everyone!  I get a weird feeling I am barging in here and usurping other people's limelight after all their hard work. 
I would be happy to step back and let you all experiment.  It is not my intention to take anything away
from all the really great experimenters here.  I do not intend to profit off any of this research.
Its just so much much fun!
........................................................................

Soit! Qu'il en soit ainsi si tel est votre désir.
And, BTW, thank for answering questions.

Very Best from Brest/Brittany/France




Title: Re: Yippee!
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 16, 2012, 03:32:52 AM
8) Increasing the number of winds lowered the current draw and the bulb got dimmer (sounds crazy huh).  Next, I need to chart the taps and current draw and graph out to see how this is working.  Thanks again Lynxsteam for the wonderful plans and vids that made this a relatively simple build.
 
Brad S   :)

I have also seen some weird things while tuning.  Normally if you increase the primary turns, secondary voltage should drop and amps should go up to compensate.  But there are some resonance points you will hit even with this closed circuit.  I think what happens is, even though the base isn't being biased as much the frequency is staying high and so are the voltage spikes.

Normally if you drop the number of primary turns, the resulting Voltage will be higher and so the amps it takes to do the work go down.  power = volts x amps = watts
As you load the circuit more the voltage returning to the base of the transistor goes down and so the transistor is turned on and off slower resulting in almost a shorted circuit between pulses.  Amps in this case will be high through the circuit.  If you put very little load on the circuit the frequency of oscillation can go very high and amps will drop because the transistor barely has time to send a burst of current (amps) through the primary.  With the CFLs the voltage at start may be 240 volts, quickly drops across the bulb to 40 v and amps might be only .100 amps =  4 watts. 
As you load the circuit, frequency slows and amps go up, volts go down.  Volts might only be 10 across the bulb x .400 amps = 4 watts
What you will see at the source battery is voltage will drop from 12.4 down to 12.20 and amp draw might only be .350 amps = 4.27 watts
The rest of the power ends up as heat and vibration.  Keeping wires short, using heavy gauge where possible, tight connections all help efficiency.

All that said, I have also seen the initial power draw be high and then with a wiggle of the primary the power draw goes way down while the bulb is bright.  This may be resonance and energy cycling back and forth.  Its a moving target and takes constant tuning to achieve.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: conradelektro on May 16, 2012, 09:21:36 AM
hi folks, here is a video showing the non-modified 15 watt cfl lighting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlajB1bRU3w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlajB1bRU3w)
peace love light
tyson

What I have seen doing my tests and in the many nice and instructive posts and videos:

Air core:

- high inaudible frequency (100 KHZ very big coils, 300 KHz smaller coils)
- it is difficult to draw more than a few Watts (may be up to 5 Watts, the inductance of air core coils is rather low)
- non-modified CFLs do not work (the bare tube has to be used), some non modified LED lamps do not work (this is probably due to the high frequency, some circuits in the 110V or 220V lamps are not built for frequencies far beyond 50 Hz or 60 Hz)

Ferrite core, iron core:

- low audible frequency (1 KHz to 6 KHz, the whine can be a problem)
- amp draw can be very high (in case many lamps are connected and the transistor has a heat sink, the inductance of ferrite core transformers is very high)
- non modified lamps work, even incandescent lamps

General features:

- the main tuning problem is the number of turns for primary and secondary (this has to be right to a certain degree otherwise the circuit will not oscillate)
- the second important factor is the supply voltage and there are "sweet spots", going lower can be an improvement
- a possible way of tuning is a variable resistor between the base of the transistor and the positive rail, but this seems to be of limited value, once "transformer" and supply voltage are correct, a high resistance (10K, 50K) may help to start oscillation when power is switched on
- the circuit adapts itself to a wide range of load (as long as the inductance of the "transformer" is sufficient to support the load)
- it may be that lamps driven with this circuit may not last as long as specified by the manufacturer for 110 V or 220 V (because some circuit components in the lamps may be stressed, there is probably no problem with bare bone CFL tubes)

My conclusion:

If one wants a lot of light (many and very bright lamps) a ferrite core transformer is the right choice (but the audible whine has to be controlled in some way, e.g. by dipping the transformer in a resin).

For one bare bones CFL tube a air core design might be a nice choice (mainly for the looks and the low cost).

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Yippee!
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 16, 2012, 05:15:35 PM
Good work to record "anomalies" -- this is where the "new physics" or at least new understanding is likely to occur IMO:

I have also seen some weird things while tuning. Normally if you increase the primary turns, secondary voltage should drop and amps should go up to compensate.  But there are some resonance points you will hit even with this closed circuit.  I think what happens is, even though the base isn't being biased as much the frequency is staying high and so are the voltage spikes.

Normally if you drop the number of primary turns, the resulting Voltage will be higher and so the amps it takes to do the work go down.  power = volts x amps = watts
As you load the circuit more the voltage returning to the base of the transistor goes down and so the transistor is turned on and off slower resulting in almost a shorted circuit between pulses.  Amps in this case will be high through the circuit.  If you put very little load on the circuit the frequency of oscillation can go very high and amps will drop because the transistor barely has time to send a burst of current (amps) through the primary.  With the CFLs the voltage at start may be 240 volts, quickly drops across the bulb to 40 v and amps might be only .100 amps =  4 watts. 
As you load the circuit, frequency slows and amps go up, volts go down.  Volts might only be 10 across the bulb x .400 amps = 4 watts
What you will see at the source battery is voltage will drop from 12.4 down to 12.20 and amp draw might only be .350 amps = 4.27 watts
The rest of the power ends up as heat and vibration.  Keeping wires short, using heavy gauge where possible, tight connections all help efficiency.

All that said, I have also seen the initial power draw be high and then with a wiggle of the primary the power draw goes way down while the bulb is bright.  This may be resonance and energy cycling back and forth.  Its a moving target and takes constant tuning to achieve.

Nice summary, conrad.

Also, if indeed the coil operates in Tesla-resonance mode sometimes and in air-core transformer mode sometimes -- that is important!  (good question, Nerzh, and good response lynx!)



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 16, 2012, 05:53:51 PM
LaserSaber gave me a hint about using much heavier gauge on the primary.  He didn't give me any details as to why, but I will give it a try to see what difference it makes. 

Using the same 12" long LJL I videoed yesterday I am going to use 18 awg 264 turns on the secondary, 25 turns x 4 in parallel  12 awg stranded insulated wire on the primary.  Doing this the primary is solidly filled across the length, but in effect is only 25 turns, but 6 awg.  It also provides perfect spacing on the primary coil.


Title: Stranded vs solid wire
Post by: b_rads on May 16, 2012, 08:26:23 PM
In thinking about the use of stranded wire vs. solid wire, I found this information on Wikipedia:
 
Wiki - Wire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire#Solid_versus_stranded)
 
This is what it says:
 
 "At high frequencies, current travels near the surface of the wire because of the skin effect, resulting in increased power loss in the wire. Stranded wire might seem to reduce this effect, since the total surface area of the strands is greater than the surface area of the equivalent solid wire, but ordinary stranded wire does not reduce the skin effect because all the strands are short-circuited together and behave as a single conductor. A stranded wire will have higher resistance than a solid wire of the same diameter because the cross-section of the stranded wire is not all copper, there are unavoidable gaps between the strands (this is the circle packing problem for circles within a circle). A stranded wire with the same cross-section of conductor as a solid wire is said to have the same equivalent gauge and is always a larger diameter. However, for many high-frequency applications, proximity effect is more severe than skin effect, and in some limited cases, simple stranded wire can reduce proximity effect. For better performance at high frequencies, litz wire, which has the individual strands insulated and twisted in special patterns, may be used."
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 16, 2012, 10:02:38 PM
  I'd appreciate some wisdom on what LED bulbs to get.
Below we see a 6W LED bulb for only $3.99 + shipping, a bargain.  But -- only 320 Lumens, that is, 320/6W = 53 Lm/W.  Not so great.

OTOH, I find other LED bulbs at 3W that claim 300 Lm, nearly as much as the one above, but at 3W input instead of 6W.  And that is 300Lm/3W = 100 Lm/W!  It also accepts input voltage from 85 to 260 VAC.  Costs more, around $12.

There is a whole range of LED bulbs available, 12V-DC, 120 V, 220 V, 85-260V, and various configurations and Lm/W also.

EDIT:  Add:  Is DIMMABLE preferable?  these cost more...

Any suggestions on which LED bulbs might  be best for these Lynx-lamp experiments?  What is the Lumens/W of your bulbs Lynx, others?

  I'm hoping to MAXIMIZE Lumens/Watt with the lynx-lamp... not necessarily with the bulb as purchased and run on the grid.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 17, 2012, 12:09:40 AM
This Utiltech pro LED warm 450 lumens, is the LED I bought at Lowes for $9 each.  Its not wasted money because they will last a long time.  This is a nice bulb and it looks very much like the one Laser Saber uses in his video.  Lumens is stated as 450 at 7.5 watts.  I think if you can find this one we can all compare.



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 17, 2012, 02:13:07 PM
I tested the UtiliTech Pro 450 on AC from the wall plug.  This bulb is spec'd at 7.5 watts.  But it pulls 18.5 watts and is very bright.  On my LJL circuit it consumes 4.7 watts. 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 17, 2012, 09:03:58 PM
Here is some of what I am learning that might help fellow explorers.

Our secondary is running at very high frequencies.  At this high frequency the transistor is fully on and off so fast that the light is flickering at several thousand times a second.  The eye is fooled into perceiving this as on.  With normal household AC the light is on and off 60 times a second and the eye still sees it as on.  But at 60 hz, power is on fully for longer than with high frequency spikes.  This may be the reason LaserSaber can demonstrate higher lumens on less power than with 60 hz supply, not to mention the losses from the inverter circuitry, voltage and frequency regulators.

The next thing is at these high frequencies even with an aircore coil we can experience core losses similar to a ferrite transformer, because of the "skin effect".  Only the outside part of the secondary wire carries the current.  So in my experiment yesterday with a heavier gauge secondary I saw a higher power draw and slightly less performance.  Smaller wire has greater surface area.

But if you go too small you lose the amount of material needed to provide the necessary inductance.

The primary coil is running at this high frequency too.  Maximizing surface area is important here too in order to reduce the skin effect problem.  I am running 4 insulated primary wires to maximize induction and reduce skin effect.  The use of litz wires or twisted insulated wires could be of benefit.  4-6 twisted insulated wires for the primary may be much better than a single primary wire.  Using copper tubing would greatly increase surface area because of the inner and outer skin of a tube.

Proximity of wire next to wire causes capacitance problems which can't be avoided in the secondary at high frequency, but should be avoided in the primary by spacing the primary turns apart.

Because the aircore coil's inductance can be several thousand times less than a ferrite core transformer the primary to secondary ratio needs to be higher.  I find that a ratio of 10:1 isn't enough for LEDs off 12 volts.  If we use a ratio of 15:1 we should see 180 rms acv without a load.  Once the load is applied voltage will drop across the load to about 60 vac.  Right now with a 10:1 ratio volts across the load (1 bulb) are dropping to 39 vac and the DC component is 3.9 as opposed to the ferrite transformer's DC component at 4.9 v.  Proof that a ferrite transformer has much higher induction.

So what's all this mean?  I am going to try going back to 368 turns 20 awg on the secondary.  25 turns on the primary of twisted insulated wire spaced evenly apart.  The goal is to get closer to the performance of the SJR2.0.  Why bother?  Because if the problems can be addressed, air core coils have an advantage at higher frequencies and power draw could be lower than a ferrite transformer.  And for fun!  :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on May 17, 2012, 11:39:46 PM
In researching the "proximity effect" yesterday while looking at stranded vs. solid core wire, I found reference to a way to overcome some of this effect.  Parallel wires cause the effect however crossing of the wires eliminates some of this effect.  It might be interesting to try winding the first half of the primary the full length and then bring the second half back over and wind to the beginning.  This might increase the space between the parallel wires in addition to creating intersections where the first half and second half cross over each other, if that makes sense.   ???
 
Brad S
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 18, 2012, 06:23:11 AM
  I'm still gearing up, and have been searching for high lumens-per-watt LED bulbs today.  I figure that it is a good goal to seek for high Lm/W output (with minimal input), and that one might start with a high Lm/W bulb to begin with...
Quote
"This Utiltech pro LED warm 450 lumens, is the LED I bought at Lowes for $9 each.  Its not wasted money because they will last a long time.  This is a nice bulb and it looks very much like the one Laser Saber uses in his video.  Lumens is stated as 450 at 7.5 watts."

This works out to 450 Lm/ 7.5W = 60 Lm/W, which is fairly low for LED bulbs actually as I look around on line. 
Tmart.com sells a variety of LED lamps, often with ratings around 100Lm/W  (they give you Lumens and Watts typically; just divide).  Below is a lamp that is quite good -- if the ratings hold true:  400 Lm/3W = 133Lm/W, about twice the Lm/W for that lamp from Lowes.  133Lm/W is the highest for any LED bulb I found... And inexpensive at $7.  I ordered a couple; evidently the demand is high and these are back-ordered.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 18, 2012, 07:15:46 AM
Over at EF.com, my friend Slider goes the other way -- makes the coil SMALLER, and has some success. Note his compliments to Lynx also:

Quote
Moving on to building. I was intrigued by an email link to the OU forum, of the Joule Lamp by Lynxsteam and had an idea to decrease the physical sizing of the excellent work seen so far. I was besotted with b_rads work, it looked like a crystal radio was running a CFL !!! I mean, how cool is that ! (http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
 Just a small step of an idea, but definitely wishing to move toward what is possible without including ferrite. Being as these are a lot like Slayer exciters, it intrigues me to know how small these can go, yet still produce useable results.
 So, a previously wound secondary was selected - 4.5" length of 1/2" PVC pipe, 360 winds of 30 gauge. A toilet roll was then cut down its length and adjusted til it fit over the secondary coil. The excess was trimmed off and then it was taped to hold the shape. Onto which went 32 turns of 26 gauge.
 Transistor is a D2641 Darlington power transistor, which came from a bag of trannies and still has a 1N4007 across Base and Emitter, so I just left it there.
 Power is 12V, from a converted old PC power supply.
 
 Here are two pics.
 The first is an LED nightlight, which although the draw was a monstrous 500mA, lights the light brighter than when plugged directly into the wall. Sorry for the lack of light box type exactness there, which is a fine idea for comparisons testing.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7051-joule-ringer-40.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7051-joule-ringer-40.html)
Title: Current Draw on Primary
Post by: b_rads on May 18, 2012, 03:56:03 PM
This is a short video showing the current draw using different number of turns on the primary.  Can someone explain why, when I put LED's on the circuit, the current goes way up compared to using CFL's.  The current using LED's measured with a digital multimeter was 1.36 Amps.  The camera ran out of disk space while filming, sorry for the sudden ending.  Hope you enjoy.
 
Current Draw on LJL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmVt1sPbUdQ)
 
Brad S   :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 18, 2012, 05:46:31 PM
B-rads

I watched your video.  I have noted the same performance.  The circuit has to be setup differently for LEDs as opposed to setting up for florescent tubes.  Florescents take 190 volts or so to start.  LED's need about 90-130 volts. 

To get the circuit started the DC voltage has to energize the primary with enough field to induce a voltage high enough in the secondary to reverse bias the transistor.  The primary has to act as a capacitor to allow the current somewhere to go.  I think this is why magnet wire doesn't work as a primary in this circuit.  You need a good thick insulation on the primary and some spacing between turns.

When the transistor turns off due to the magnetic field blocking the DC, the field collapses and you get a high voltage spike with no where to go except across the bulb. 

As frequency slows the transistor is fully on longer and the amp draw goes up.  LaserSaber shows this in his video where you can hear the frequency dropping as he screws in more bulbs.  This automatically adjusts the power to the load.  In your video you are forcing frequency lower with fewer turns on the primary thereby causing a higher amp draw until finally the capacitance of the primary isn't enough to keep the oscillation going.

To prove/disprove this idea, try keeping turns constant and add a second bulb and note amp draw.  Move down the taps and see what happens.  Try a heavier gauge stranded wire with thicker insulation.  I have had good results with double insulated stranded electrical wire used for home wiring.

Note:  I barely know what I'm talking about, hopefully an EE will straighten me out.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 18, 2012, 07:08:18 PM
 Very interesting vid, Brad, and suggestions, Lynx.

Over here, I've plotted the data points for the calibration of my light-box-2, described earlier:
http://www.overunity.com/12340/joule-lamp/30/ (http://www.overunity.com/12340/joule-lamp/30/)

The plot shows the linearity of the response in Lux for various Lumens output, with Lumens given on the packaging for each bulb.

The slope of the graph is the conversion factor FOR THIS LIGHT BOX.  You should do such a quick plot for each light box you build.  For this one, the conversion factor is 0.08(0) Lumens/Lux. 
Now I can put an unknown light source in there, such as a bulb during Lynx-Lamp testing, and actually measure the Lumens!  I will be able to tell HOW MUCH the light is actually getting brighter or dimmer as I change things like the tap on the primary.
(PS == Not hard to build a light-box! and easy to calibrate.  I think Nerzh said he is building one.)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on May 18, 2012, 08:39:55 PM
 
Now I can put an unknown light source in there, such as a bulb during Lynx-Lamp testing, and actually measure the Lumens!  I will be able to tell HOW MUCH the light is actually getting brighter or dimmer as I change things like the tap on the primary.
(PS == Not hard to build a light-box! and easy to calibrate.  I think Nerzh said he is building one.)

OK - you convinced me, ordered my lux meter today and will put together a box like yours to test in.  Graphing the light output along side the wonderful graph that Lynxsteam did will be very interesting.  Thanks for the graph Lynx, I think it is starting to sink in what is happening in this build.  This is all very new stuff for me and takes a while to absorb.
 
Did I say that this build makes no audible noise that I can hear,  haven't asked the dog yet though.   :D
 
Brad S
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 18, 2012, 09:07:51 PM
Here's my report on primary wire. 

I tried the following with 4 LED bulbs:
Twisted 18 awg magnet wire then 30 turns on secondary.  High amp draw 2.2 amps, very poor light and hard to start
1/4" copper tubing spaced evenly, 30 turns, "nothing nada zip"  no startup, no amp draw - dead
4 - 14 awg stranded insulated wires in parallel for 30 turns completely filled length - high amp draw 2.6-  amps - moderate light

Next up:
10 gauge stranded insulated (diameter as big as a soda straw)
12 gauge stranded insulated
14 gauge stranded insulated
18 gauge stranded speaker wire with very heavy vinyl insulation

I will try primary turns at varying distances to the secondary.

Its funny, my first tries were the best and I have gone downhill since.  I'll put results in a table to help sort out the different variables.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 19, 2012, 02:00:18 AM

OK - you convinced me, ordered my lux meter today and will put together a box like yours to test in.  Graphing the light output along side the wonderful graph that Lynxsteam did will be very interesting...
 
Brad S

Good news, Brad!   I believe that those Observations which are Measured and Recorded will Accelerate Progress.  (OMRAP?  ;) )

I also found with some google searching that the world-record for light output from LEDs is right around 140 Lm/W.  (If anyone finds a more up-to-date world-record, pls let me know.) 

 So -- if we manage somehow to get ABOVE 140Lm/W, and it is verified, then that would suggest an anomalous source of energy coming in...  see?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: hartiberlin on May 19, 2012, 02:30:58 AM
Great circuit,
but the problem is, that CFL lamps,
if they break during lighting
put out immense vapours of Mercury, which is very poisoneous !

See this German language movie,
where a little child  slept below a broken
CFL lamp and was poisoned by the mercury vapours and now
is very ill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwp2dg88Yv0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwp2dg88Yv0)

So be very careful not to break the CFL or Fluorescent tubes,
otherwise your flats will be polluted with Mercury vapours !

So we should better go to LEDs.

But we need to buy these warm light LEDs, around 2700 Kelvin.

The bright white LEDs, with around 5000 to 7000 Kelvin are dangerous
for your eyes ! They have too high spectzrum bands in the blue area
which is not healthy for your eyes !

One of the best new LED lamps is the new
LED light bulb from Philips,
which also recently won the L-Prize.

It is the Philips EnduraLED.

It is the direct replacement for a 60 Watts incandescent bulb and
you can´t see a difference in color rendering.

Check it out here:

http://amzn.to/wO91VS (http://amzn.to/wO91VS)


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 19, 2012, 03:19:30 PM
B-Rads

I duplicated your turns/power results exactly with that same bulb.  I tried a couple other things.  I was able to start and run the bulb with 13 turns when they are stretched out the length of the secondary for .325 amps.  No big deal, same power draw, but interesting.

I also played with Tesla's Parallel winding.  Take two wires of equal length and put 14 turns on the secondary.  Take one start and connect to the other's end to form the Tesla parallel winding.  I was able to drop power to .085 amps.  Its not bright at all but its interesting.  Now remove the bulb and look at power draw.  That energy is going somewhere.  where?  Now try a large tube florescent and touch one end to the secondary wire, leaving the base wire unconnected.  This is a Tesla coil.  With a 40 watt tube, power draw was .220 amps or 2.4 watts.

I find this interesting because normally with a Tesla coil the primary is a small loosely coupled coil at the bottom of a tower.  You can get all the classic Tesla Coil phenomenon with this LJL.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on May 19, 2012, 03:52:44 PM

Hi People,

I do agree with HartiBerlin.

Appart from a natural laziness, it is the extreme 'dangerousity' of these CFL lamps
(containing mercury) that makes me hesitating to build this devices.

What about mere "old fashioned" fluorescent lamps (neon lights)?
Would it work with this Circuit?

Very Best,
Jean
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 19, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
Ok, done with the experiments.  I am not going to make a table.

I don't know why I ruled this out before, but winding the heavily insulated primary turns right on the secondary is the way to go and even easier.  Get the biggest insulated gauge stranded wire you can find and wind 10:1 ratio on the secondary evenly spaced.  My secondary is 20 awg and 368 turns.  I put 36 turns of 12 awg on in the opposite winding direction and I get 1.8 amps for 4 LED bulbs.  That's 5.4 watts each.  With 6 bulbs I get 24 watts total or about 4 watts each into the 7.5 watt bulbs.

I tried tesla parallel - higher amp draw no more brightness
I tried several strands in parallel - higher amp draw no more brightness
I tried out farther from the secondary and total power is reduced.
I tried putting the turns at the middle and at the ends with poor results, falls out of oscillation.

Simplest is best.  So simple, this circuit could be wound on a stick and work nicely.  For fluorescents the primary turns are  halved so put a tap at 18 turns for this big 368 turn coil.  For the smaller original LJL use 14 turns for the 680 30 awg wire, or double for LEDs.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on May 20, 2012, 06:35:14 PM
Thanks, Lynxsteam -- and for this informative new vid on how SJR 2.0's are put together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROwdzpbISB4&feature=uploademail
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 24, 2012, 04:51:27 PM
Here's a Video titled "Joule Ringers that Don't Ring" showing the E-core and the Aircore side by side.  It demonstrates the flexibility of both circuits, the power draw, and bandwidth capability of both.  Each has its positive aspects.  For pure efficiency the E-Core is amazing with little downside.  The Aircore adjusts to load better, acts more like a household AC supply circuit and starts a little nicer.  Now for Lumens/watt testing which JouleSeeker is undertaking and will report back when done.
 
My guess from watching both is that the E-Core is twice as efficient at providing lumens per watt.  But both devices are very efficient and would easily utilize a medium sized solar panel to provide lighting for several of the rooms in your house - for Free!

I also show the big "Kong" torroid making lots of noise and putting out too much power in a very narrow bandwidth.  This Torroid would probably benefit from the original Joule Ringer circuit.  I will not pursue that however.  If anyone wants it let me know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KzugLhMB9A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KzugLhMB9A)

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on May 26, 2012, 02:58:44 AM
See that picture above?  Now imagine the primary is not on that PVC tube and instead wound directly over the 20 awg magnet wire.  I wound the primary completely over the secondary.  The turns are 368 secondary, 107 primary of 14 awg electrical wire.
I sanded off a stripe of insulation on the primary so I could tap at each turn.

With one 7.5 watt LED and 12 volts I found a spot at 68 turns where amps dropped down to 280 ma.  That spot is a little over half way across he secondary.  Either side of that turn ma go up in a sort of linear way.  Turns 66-70 ma are right around 300 for one bulb.

1 bulb, 68 turns, 280 ma, 3.36 watt input, 99.4 Khz - brightness maybe 50% - useable

6 bulbs, 68 turns,  848 ma, 10.2 watt input, 47.7 Khz - brightness maybe 30-40% - not very useable

14 CFL unmodded, brightness 70% , 107 turns 1.02 A 29.2 Khz  I suspect that amp draw could be less with more turns but I ran out of turns. 

The other interesting thing is the circuit with no battery hooked up puts out .225 volts, about a 1/4 of a volt with base disconnected.  Base connected about .100 V, 1/10 of a volt
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on May 31, 2012, 08:15:20 PM
Salve a tutti,

I have replicated this Joule Lamp. One 2N3055. No diode.

In spite of a nicely (but unpurposely) botched (hand made) secondary coil
(about 640 turns; Diameter 2 cm ; Length 23 cm ; AWG #30), it seems to work! :P

It worked (lighted a small 6 watts fluorescent lamp) the first time I switched it on!
Then it stopped as soon as I moved in the room...

This circuit is amazing and very capricious.
It does not works each time you switch the power on.
Amp consumption: from 0.3 to 1 amps depending upon the primary "tuning"
(the secondary coil can  'slide' inside the primary).

I have also tested it with 2 fluorescent 6 W lamps.
It works even when the lamps are just plugged with one wire to the 'positive' HV side.

Pictures and  more tests to be done.

Thanks to Lynxsteam for this circuit and his precisions.

Very Best,
Jean
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 01, 2012, 08:41:52 PM
I thought it was helpful to compare different types of blocking oscillator DC converters to help people understand them better.  I'll just stick to what I am doing from now on and not reference anyone else's work.

I resurrected the smaller AirCore (the 12" long one).  I modified it quite a bit.  My goal is to make it the best it can be.  Power output is up substantially.  Brightness is very useable.  These same modifications apply to any size aircore I decide to make.

Below are results from a comparison done with the bulbs plugged into the wall through a watt meter, and plugged into the AirCore.  I recorded data for 4 bulbs and for 6 bulbs.  These were 7.5 watt Utilitech 450 lumen LED warm bulbs.
Voltage and amps were recorded for the aircore using a DMM.
Light output was recorded through a 6 volt photovoltaic panel mounted above the bulbs in a light box.
Frequency results
4 bulbs 19 khz
6 bulbs 16.9 khz

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 01, 2012, 10:54:49 PM
Here is a video I shot today.  I was supposed to go play golf with my son, but its 55 F and raining. 
I am very encouraged that the aircore is so easy to make and beats the heck out of running lights with the house grid power.
A solar panel indoors facing a window is enough to make this work.  These six bulbs require 18 watts.  My solar panel in full sun puts out 60 watts.
My light box isn't perfect so I will probably have Joule Seeker do a confirmation with his setup, if he is willing.
I don't see how there is a limit to how big and powerful this can be made, except for practicality and the 6 amp limit of the transistor.  In this video the amp draw is about 1.49 amps on 12.1 volts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep6-hJ3kLOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep6-hJ3kLOM)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 03, 2012, 12:37:14 AM
I received a comment on a video saying the power is too high into the LJL.  I can control the power by adjusting frequency.  The aim is to provide enough power for many many light bulbs.  4-5 watts per bulb provides very nice brightness for the 7.5 watt bulbs.  Its interesting that the first bulb draws 1 amp, and subsequent bulbs require 200 ma each.  I have added enough bulbs to drop the frequency down to 10khz and put out 40 watts.  I haven't found the limit yet.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 03, 2012, 02:12:58 AM
Here is a video I shot today.  I was supposed to go play golf with my son, but its 55 F and raining. 
I am very encouraged that the aircore is so easy to make and beats the heck out of running lights with the house grid power.
A solar panel indoors facing a window is enough to make this work.  These six bulbs require 18 watts.  My solar panel in full sun puts out 60 watts.
My light box isn't perfect so I will probably have Joule Seeker do a confirmation with his setup, if he is willing.
I don't see how there is a limit to how big and powerful this can be made, except for practicality and the 6 amp limit of the transistor.  In this video the amp draw is about 1.49 amps on 12.1 volts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep6-hJ3kLOM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep6-hJ3kLOM)

Excellent progress, lynx.  Yes, of course, I would be very happy to do a confirmation.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 03, 2012, 06:27:13 PM
This video is simply to demonstrate the raw power the AirCore is capable of.  This circuit is not intended for incandescent bulbs, however, with some modification I think small appliances could be run from this circuit in addition to LED bulbs.  There is a slight ringing that can be heard with two 40 watt bulbs.  That is from the secondary pulsing against each turn.  For those of you experimenters that have played with AirCore inductors you will understand the significance of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6vhP2iUk6s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6vhP2iUk6s)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 03, 2012, 07:24:08 PM
Another excellent vid, Lynxsteam-- very informative.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 03, 2012, 10:57:27 PM

Mr LynxSteam:

Thanks again for all your clear and precise explanations and for your very simple circuit.
So, no (apparent) capacitor, no diode, no resistor, just 2 air core coils and this
very famous old 2N3055!

Yes: I sometimes have to manipulate the switch to get the CCT running.
This adds to the strangeness of the circuit.
--------
Gee, incandescent bulbs now! Nice work.
--------------
For my part, my poor (first) replication works with 6 watts small fluorescent
'tubes'  (I do not want to use these deadly bl' CFLs).
I can use 2 wires, one wire, and even no wire, should I first 'trigger'
the tube by connecting it -for a short while- at the 'cool' end of the HV.
BTW: a couple of days ago, It worked only when plugged at the 'hot' HV side. :P

So: the behavior of this device is very inconstant and seems depending upon
my mood and perhaps the planets positions, the Dow Jones rate or the weather?  :D
------------------
I have noticed that:
According to my IR thermometer(and my finger), the 2N3055 does
not really get hot (about 36° Celsius).
I'm drawing about (less than) 0.4 amps (under (more than) '12' volts).

According too to my finger the hot side of the HV wire is indeed very hot.
Now, strange enough, according to my IR thermometer this hot side is finally not
so hot (about 24° Celsius). So what I'm feeling are not 'real' calories? :o

When 'singled wired', a Leds bulb (or just one led)  blinks!
When fully wired a leds bulb just stops the CCT.

A small neon bulb is OK, whatever the way you plug it (even shorted).

My FM radioset does not like this CCT.

I will try different primary? (few turns)  and  also will build a more serious secondary( lots of turns).

Very Best,
Jean
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 03, 2012, 11:38:09 PM
Jean,

Everything you describe sounds about right.  For CFL's reduce number of primary turns a little and spread them out.  For LED's double your primary turns from what you have.  The CFL's take about 200 vac to get started and then voltage drops as does the Frequency.  The LEDs don't like voltage that high.  They like about 90-130 vac.

The heat you feel from the HV wire is what I feel if I accidentally touch it.  It is very high frequency high voltage and it feels like intense heat on the skin.  High frequency high vltage is much safer than lower frequency high voltage.  I have been shocked before on regular house AC and I can assure you it feels different.  It makes your body oscillate at 60 hz and is very unpleasant.  Maybe don't touch the High Voltage!

If the circuit doesn't want to start its because there is too much residual voltage on the primary.  Touch the positive primary lead to the negative lead to bleed off the capacitance.  I do this with the negative lead attached.  When it is in in this condition and wont easily start test the negative and positive with a meter and see what the open circuit voltage is.  That alone will bleed off the capacitance.

The fluorescents wont fire off when just hooked up to the emitter side of the HV.  They can start when hooked up to just the coil side.  With one wire move your hand up the tube once it lights and watch the light follow your hand.  You become a part of the circuit.  Classic Tesla coil stuff!

Try a 400 v 104k metal film capacitor across the HV in parallel with an LED bulb once you get this going better.  It in effect will boost brightness and lower frequency.  Try different HV metal film capacitors and see what the effects are.  Once you get the aircore setup how you want it you wont need the capacitor.  But its fun.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 04, 2012, 01:35:22 AM

Mr LynxSteam:

Thanks  for having taking your time for this -once again- very precise
 and precious answering. I have saved and printed it out.

So, you too, felt this strange 'heat'.
For my part I purposely touched this wire. :P

I will try your tests and 'primary' modifications.

BTW: I owe this thread, at least, some pictures.
So, more to come ASAP.

Thanks again and very Best,
Jean

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 05, 2012, 12:35:42 AM
I have moved from the small 10" aircore to the 12" larger diameter aircore and now to a giant 24" long by 4" aircore.  Looks like this is scalable and worthy of more research.  The Giant aircore is intended for whole house lighting off a 12 volt battery.

With six 7.5 watt LED bulbs the amp draw is 1.2 amps at 12.85 volts = 2.7 watts each bulb and super bright!  My guess is I can add many more light bulbs.  Frequency with all 6 bulbs is 8.9 khz.  The first bulb uses 660 ma.  Then each additional bulb adds 102 ma with no apparent reduction in brightness.  So bulbs 2-6 are running off 1.2 watts. 

Remember these are the same 6 bulbs that consumed 120 watts off the house grid.  I get the impression these bulbs just need current and don't care what is pushing that current.  The amp draw off house grid for six bulbs was 1 amp, off the DC converter just a little over 1 amp.  Hmmm.....



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on June 06, 2012, 03:57:09 PM
Lynxsteam:
Have you tried an AC Cap between the Air Core and the bulbs?  Slider2732 did this and I tried it on my more basic Joule Thief hand wound transformer and it seems to lower current draw slightly.  I don't remember the specs, but it was a mallory orange cap I salvaged out of a worn out garage door opener.  I have been sort of busy since returning from vacation and looks like it will be the weekend before I get a chance to get going again.  Have you noticed the the current draw jump back and forth from high to low with your setup?  I may need to replace the 3055.  Lighting single LED's with an AV plug is really cool.  Hold an led by one leg and get near or touch one of the output rails will bite (heat) you.  Have you formed an opinion yet about size, turns, etc.?  Loved the last VID, Thanks
 
Brad S   :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 06, 2012, 06:59:30 PM
 My son and I are setting up a place to run on solar + 12V batteries, completely off-grid.  So we are very interested in these developments -- thanks Lynxsteam, Lidmotor and all!

  I used the calibrated light-box to test various bulbs, as shown in the photo attached.  The bulbs at left, running at 120V off mains, deliver typically 55-70 Lumens/Watt.  The bulbs on the right are designed for 12V DC operation, and deliver about 30 - 65 Lm/W. 

The bulb second from the right is turned so that you can see some of the electronics components -- which were left exposed for this 12V bulb with six LED's.  Touching the back, I picked up a frequency of 304 KHz, so evidently the circuitry with this lamp goes from 12V DC to about 304 KHz AC -- probably using a blocking oscillator.  This bulb puts out about 62 Lm/W running on 12V DC.

I'm looking forward to seeing how many Lumens/Watt can be obtained with Lynxsteam's latest!  it is very impressive in the videos he has done, and I congratulate his progress here.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 07, 2012, 01:10:58 AM
B-Rads,

Yes, putting a high voltage capacitor like a 100v 224J  metal film cap in series with either HV lead to the LED bulbs drops amperage 30% in one test I did with three 7.5 watt bulbs, 31 khz from 30 khz.  Brightness drops as well, but not by much, just judging by perception.  That may be a good way to boost lumens /watt.  I tried a 400v 104k metal film capacitor but the lights intermittently flickered, searched for a resonant point.  Not so pleasant.  The 100V 224J worked well.  I think because I target around 86-90 v running on these circuits.

For the smaller aircore (12" long) original the capacitor choice is a 500v .01uf ceramic.  The problem I find is the capacitor rating is touchy.  If the farad rating is off a little the bulb wont light.  If you get it right power drops by 30-50%, but so does brightness.  For a self adjusting circuit you should try to avoid dropping AC voltage with the series capacitor.  But the advantage if you do choose this route is that it is very efficient compared to using a resistor.

My amps jump around a little but not by much.  If more than 200 ma then maybe the circuit isn't finding a resonant point.  L Rand C have to stay somewhat fixed.  Could be a bad transistor  or even the surroundings.  I had one LJL transmitting to one nearby that wasn't hooked up and it blew the unhooked transistor and it got really hot.  So these will interact with surroundings.   If voltage on your battery is dropping so does amperage. 

I haven't found a perfect setup as far as turns and ratio of turns.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 09, 2012, 01:13:40 AM
Hi Joule 'Lampistes',

I have not yet modified my primary coil as I ran out of more appropriate 'gauged' wire. :P

Anyway, a funny experiment:
You can slowly but steadily charge a cap without connecting it to the Circuit (CCT).
You just need 2 diodes, a kinda 'antenna' and to place this setup near the CCT.

If you,  however, use just one wire connected to the  HV side of the CCT, the charge
effect is faster.

This is not 'ghost charging', according to the spark when the cap is shorted by a  screwdriver!
I would not be so sure about "'ghost charging' or not" effect with a battery.
Perhaps with some patience?
Charging a non connected cap do not draw more amp from the CCT.

Very Best,
Jean
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 09, 2012, 03:50:29 AM
Lots of things you can do with this circuit.  You can also run your positive lead to the Joule lamp through a Torroid, 20 turns and have an isolated secondary of 200.  Off this isolated secondary you can power another bulb, CFL or LED, or even back charge the source battery.  I was able to reduce amp draw on one LED bulb by 20% back charging.  In effect its just diverting energy, but its interesting.

Here is my latest test with the Utilitech LED warm 7.5 watt bulbs.  The watt reading off the house grid was done through a watt meter and it is calibrated.  Please try this yourself and see that these bulbs consume more power than stated on the package, note that my grid voltage is 120 v and that may cause a higher amp draw.  The lightbox is a foil lined cardboard box with a 6 volt PV panel mounted 4" above the bulb lens.  The watt readings for the LJL is done by simultaneously noting battery voltage and amp readings off digital multimeters.  The bulbs are not moved throughout testing.

Note that in this testing the Deep Cycle 12 volt battery was between 12.87 and 12.89 volts while the lights were running.  This is due to the battery having been charged by an outdoor solar panel  for several days. 

I am discovering there are a lot of variables in how many bulbs in parallel, frequency, voltage, amp draw, brightness, two tiers of brightness... Notice in both cases the two bulb input wattage is more than twice the input wattage of one.  But in the house grid test, 2 bulb output wasn't as substantially higher than 1 bulb, as in the LJL case.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 10, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
  Those are impressive results with the LJL, Lynxsteam. I like the approach of comparing directly with results from the house grid.

 Very well done.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 10, 2012, 08:35:49 PM
Thanks Joule Seeker, I am sure your test equipment is much better than mine.  I look forward to pushing the envelope for better performance from these circuits guided by your methodical and empirical approach.

I notice a lot of talk about the efficiency of the 12 volt LED bulbs.  That makes sense because they are designed for twelve volt DC.  What we are trying to do here is use AC which works better for whole house lighting as the voltage drop is much less with AC on long runs.  To get the same whole house performance from DC, very heavy gauge wire would need to be run and that costs $$$$.

It is also possible to design a SJR 2.0 to run one bulb very efficiently, but again my aim with this thread now, is to find an efficient way to run multiple bulbs, either permanently in a home or as a solar powered backup.  I find with the SJR 2.0 E-core that it is really good up to a certain number of bulbs (4-6) and then it self adjusts and wont put out more power.  My small E-core maxes out at about 5 watts.  You could simply have an E-Core mounted in each room with a battery.

The larger LJL Aircores I am experimenting with have hit 40 watts and I still need more bulbs to find the limit.  I also find paralleling more than five bulbs on a circuit is about right.    Down line paralleled bulbs after the fifth appear slightly dimmer.

If the AC is split into branches at the LJL it works better. 

I also think keeping this circuit as simple and foolproof as possible is the best way to go for under-developed countries.  Hopefully the price of LED bulbs will come down in price like digital watches did in the 1970's.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on June 11, 2012, 04:55:00 PM
Interesting those conversations of the going directly to dc lights has come up.  My wife does Arts and Crafts, Festivals, etc., and many times is outside without power.  I am building a simple system to provide some light for this purpose.  The light modules are rated at 0.9watts, however they are only pulling 15mA from my battery.  I should be able to power several of these modules on this system.  This should make a nice backup system for home as well as a functional outdoor light system. 
 
LED Lights (http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-G4-24-SMD-LED-Pure-White-Light-Marine-Car-Bulb-Lamp-/110661235255?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item19c3ec7237)
< $1.50 each
 
Solar Charger (http://www.harborfreight.com/15-watt-solar-battery-charger-68692.html)
$11.99 on sale – local pickup
 
12V 5AH Battery (http://www.forbesdistributing.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=2&id=24)
$14.26 local pickup
 
My observation of the 3 different dc to ac inverters I have built.  Lynx Air Core – super easy, reliable, easy to start, very flexible.
RS 12V 450mA – Tricky for me to get started. 
Hand wound transformer with trigger coil – most efficient for a single bulb, most difficult build of the three.
 
Brad S  :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 11, 2012, 06:52:12 PM
  Brad:
   Thank you for that recommendation, it does seam very practical. 
The Led company from Hong Kong also have other bulbs with higher outputs, but with relatively the same W/lm.  I've posted the link below.
  It looks like those one watt led bulbs placed in the different wattage bulbs, are the way to go, and especially at $1.50 or so, per watt, or less. As that is what just a single regular led (little ones) cost here. Magnetman was able to find the small ones on E-bay for just $4 per hundred, or so.
  Although totoalas had mentioned that the 5 watt panels were costing only $30 (including shipping), I had not found them at that price, until now. (link below).
5watt solar panel Monocrystalline cells 12volts | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251078309830)
 

  The bulbs shown below also are very economical, and are 12v as well. Same company.
  It's going to be very hard to beat that market. Might as well join them, instead.
 
   
12V/110V-220V 3W MR16/ GU10 Warm/Cool White SMD/RGB/SpotLight Lamp Bulb Lighting | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-110V-220V-3W-MR16-GU10-Warm-Cool-White-SMD-RGB-SpotLight-Lamp-Bulb-Lighting-/140754913699?_trksid=p4340.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D555000%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D10%26meid%3D9062953901696517633%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D3)
   
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 11, 2012, 07:17:12 PM
Great Links B-rads, Nick Z!  Tough to beat those LEDs for $1.50, and I have used that solar charger, it is very good and well worth the $$.

Seems like the forks in the road are these:
1.  DC power 12 v, no mods
2.  DC pulsed 12 v - to see if power draw can be dropped without damaging bulb circuitry
     I think an aircore or transformer could be used in much the same way as LaserSaber's design but with about a 1:1 ratio of turns, and rectify the output for 12 v bulbs.  If we can pulse or chop the DC it might reduce power draw and still give off the same light.  The flyback will be high voltage but perhaps a capacitor can smooth the ripple.
3.  DC/AC convert for powering multiple bulbs using the AirCore (my main interest)
4.  DC/AC convert for powering multiple bulbs using E-Core or RS transformer (that area is being covered pretty well over at EF)

I am glad my house grid watt draw was looked at by someone else.  It was puzzling to me that a 7.5 watt bulb would pull 15-20 watts off 120 v AC.  Unfortunately my other watt meter isn't showing a screen.  I will use a clip on amp meter.

I am excited about the many improvements I have made to the Aircore.  I just want JouleSeeker to confirm if I am right and the results are significant.  I can't wait to share the changes, just want to make sure.  He should receive the newest LJL Wednesday.  Then I made another significant change after shipping to him.  I wish you guys lived next door, we would have this done a lot quicker.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 11, 2012, 08:50:23 PM
  Just thought to add, that the 10 watt solar panels are only $10 more than the 5 watt ones. So, they are even more cost effective, and can be used to light more bulbs.
 
  10watt solar panel Mono crystalline 12v charge batteries Rv marine | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261038820452)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 12, 2012, 04:43:45 AM
The weirdest thing!

My watt meter, which I have used often and I trust, doesn't register CFLs or LEDs correctly.  But correctly with a DMM amp setting?

For a 14 watt CFL I get 40 watts on the watt meter, with an amp meter I get .115 amps x 120 volts = 13.8 watts
For the Utilitech Pro 7.5 I get 16 watts on the watt meter, but .072 amps X 120 v = 8.64 watts
For the Phillips 3 watt LED I get 8.4 watts on the watt meter, but .022 amps x 120 v =2.64 watts
For a 40 watt incandescent I get 37 watts on the watt meter, but .315 amps x 120  v = 37.8 watts  close to the same!
For a 60 watt incandescent I get 59 watts on the watt meter, but .502 x 120 v = 60.24 watts close to the same

So why does the watt meter register motors, incandescent and the toaster correctly but not CFLs or LEDs?  Does the circuitry in these bulbs mess with the inductive sensor on the Watt meter?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SeaMonkey on June 12, 2012, 07:54:03 AM
The various types of AC wattmeters have limitations to
their accuracy.  Particularly when dealing with non-
sinusoidal waveshapes and reactive circuits.

The Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wattmeter) is fairly comprehensive.


Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on June 12, 2012, 03:50:10 PM
@SeaMonkey:
Great to see you here and your input is most welcome.  For those of you who have not had a chance to interact with SeaMonkey, he is a very valuable contributor.   8)
 
Last night a thunderstorm ripped through and knocked out the power for a little over three hours in my neighborhood.  My first true test of several of the lighting systems I have built.  Master bedroom and bath lit by the small 12v 5AH and 4 of the SMD modules.  Family room lit with the LJL and 4 - 7.5 watt LED bulbs.  Kitchen and dining room used various mini joule ringers and joule thief lights.  12 Volt battery with 200 watt inverter powered box fan and laptop.  After much lighthearted teasing from the missus, I was a hero for about three hours last night.  What a wonderful feeling to know I have choices in a situation like that.
 
Brad S   :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 12, 2012, 07:40:12 PM
Welcome Sea Monkey.  Thanks for the wiki link.  I learn something every day at least.

B-rads, that is very cool.  I will admit, when power goes out at my house I start the whole house gas generator and it is noisy!  I shut it off at night and we have no lights so we use candles, flashlights, oil lamps to get to bed.  This is a great option now to have a quiet source of whole room lighting where we need it. 

Did you get the last thing hooked up before the power came back on?  I bet you were busy.  That's what good husbands do.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 12, 2012, 09:11:52 PM
The weirdest thing!

My watt meter, which I have used often and I trust, doesn't register CFLs or LEDs correctly.  But correctly with a DMM amp setting?

For a 14 watt CFL I get 40 watts on the watt meter, with an amp meter I get .115 amps x 120 volts = 13.8 watts
For the Utilitech Pro 7.5 I get 16 watts on the watt meter, but .072 amps X 120 v = 8.64 watts
For the Phillips 3 watt LED I get 8.4 watts on the watt meter, but .022 amps x 120 v =2.64 watts
For a 40 watt incandescent I get 37 watts on the watt meter, but .315 amps x 120  v = 37.8 watts  close to the same!
For a 60 watt incandescent I get 59 watts on the watt meter, but .502 x 120 v = 60.24 watts close to the same

So why does the watt meter register motors, incandescent and the toaster correctly but not CFLs or LEDs?  Does the circuitry in these bulbs mess with the inductive sensor on the Watt meter?

Our power was out this morning -- I can sympathize, b-rads.

@Lynx -- I tested an LED bulb and a CFL bulb with TWO watt-meters and also compared with V*I (current determined by a clamp-on ammeter).  Everything looking in agreement here:


For a 13 watt CFL I get 15.3 watts on the watt meter, with the clamp-on amp meter I get .12 amps x 123 volts = 15.7 watts; decent agreement within measurement uncertainties.
For the Utilitech Pro 7.5 I get 8.0 watts on the watt meter, and 0.06(5) amps X 123 v = 8 watts.

I'd check your watt-meter.  Note (photo) that I used two watt-meters, one plugged into the other, so I check one against the other. 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: kooler on June 13, 2012, 01:51:08 AM
hello,
jouleseeker isn't the clamp meter suppose to be on the black wire. ???
good work everyone..
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 13, 2012, 03:14:50 AM
   @ Sea Monkey, & Kooler:
   Good to see both you guys here, also.  Been missing your low draw your circuits lately Kooler. Hope that your health is ok, now.
                                                     
   NickZ
                                             
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 13, 2012, 03:23:23 AM
@kooler --  the white wire is the "return" wire in this case.  I checked -- both wires (black and white) carry the same current, as one would expect.  With two LED bulbs, I just measured 0.14A on the black wire (and on the white wire, same) at 122 V = 122 x 0.14 = 17 W, and I get the same reading on the watt-meter, that is, same within small measurement errors.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 14, 2012, 06:19:04 AM
Last night a thunderstorm ripped through and knocked out the power for a little over three hours in my neighborhood.  My first true test of several of the lighting systems I have built.  Master bedroom and bath lit by the small 12v 5AH and 4 of the SMD modules.  Family room lit with the LJL and 4 - 7.5 watt LED bulbs.  Kitchen and dining room used various mini joule ringers and joule thief lights.  12 Volt battery with 200 watt inverter powered box fan and laptop.  After much lighthearted teasing from the missus, I was a hero for about three hours last night.  What a wonderful feeling to know I have choices in a situation like that.
Great story B_rads! It made me smile. Good stuff... ;)
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 15, 2012, 01:12:47 PM
I completed the calibration runs, for one, 2,3,4,5 and 6 bulbs in the light-box.   These were the Ultra-tech LED bulbs used by Lynxsteam, so that the tests followed what he used.   The calibration factor varies somewhat with the number of bulbs.   No surprises there.

Running on the grid, these Ultra-tech bulbs put out about 450 Lumens at 60 Lm/W (when running at 7.5 W each, at about 110 VAC).
 
Lynxsteam sent me a new "Lynx Lamp" for testing, about 2" in outside diameter and 17" long, wound on PVC pipe as he has mentioned earlier.

At 12V, here are results I obtained:

# bulbs   Amps     Power In    Lumens  Lumens/Watt
1             0.53          6.4 W         134          21
2             1.03        12.4             392          32
 3             1.13        13.6             455          33
4             1.21        14.5             487          34   
5             1.26        15.1             539          36      --at 25.8 KHz
 6             1.38        16.6             580          35

  We see that the amp-draw nearly doubles going from 1 to 2 bulbs, but then decreases more slowly as one adds more bulbs -- as noted by Lynxsteam.  The Lumens/Watt efficacy peaks at approximately 5 bulbs for this "Lynx Lamp" (he wound it!).

I also inserted a 20cm long x 0.9mm diam ferrite rod into the PVC and found and found:
5             0.92         11.0            574          52  -- at 12.1 KHz

So the efficacy went up from 36 to 52 Lumens/W, while the frequency dropped.
 (I have done better in terms of Lm/W before this.)
 
I inserted a second ferrite rod, and the efficacy went down to about 25 Lm/W -- that surprised me.

So the results are interesting, but nothing spectacular yet.  Lots of fun, though!
My especial thanks to Lynxsteam for sending the "cranberry" version of his Lynx-Lamp for testing! 

I also tried lighting two CFL's with this, and they lit up, one more brightly than the other.  Total light output was around 300 Lumens once warmed up a bit, but drew 1.76A for the two @12 V.  This translates to 21 W and about 14 Lm/W.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 15, 2012, 02:39:21 PM
Thank you Joule Seeker for conducting this testing.

I am disappointed, I really thought I had managed to decrease power draw and increase brightness.  Joule Seeker's testing shows that it is easy to get fooled judging by eye.  And my imprecise PV lightbox method was erroneous.
We know that induction in Aircore transformers is much less than in a ferrite core.  His experiment with adding a ferrite core boosting output to 52 lm/watt is a clue as to the direction to go in.

The advantage to the Aircore is only in its simplicity of parts, scalability and its reliable startup. 
If I can find some silicon steel tubing with a thin wall similar to a cheap mop handle I may give that a try.  Otherwise using a ferrite core or being stuck with efficient lighting of a couple bulbs is where I am at.
I am not so interested in a couple bulbs.  That has been done quite well.

Other areas to explore would be:
Looking for the best places to tap the primary for maximum efficiency.
finding some readily available core material that can be used to increase the Aircore's induction.
Or using iron floral wire simulating the E-Core by looping through the Aircore tube.  Or by using enameled floral wire as part of the secondary.
I have also wondered if common hardware magnets could be heated slowly in an oven to 850 F and thus could render them as nice core material.

All this said, it is still possible to use the Aircore and just settle for an acceptable amp draw and brightness.  As is, the LJL Aircore works as if the bulbs are on a dimmer drawing 1/3 the power of mains 120 vac.

Other thoughts on areas to explore, or what your goal is?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 15, 2012, 05:54:22 PM
I am going to build a couple aircores in the coming week or two and wanted to try an idea. I'm not sure it has been done, or if it has been tried I haven't found it yet...
Has anyone tried filling up one of those aircores with stacked power toroids? The ones I have will fit nicely in 1" CPVC pipe. That pipe will be wrapped with the secondary and some sort of 'adjustable' primary most likely.
Any thoughts on what types of results to expect? Is this likely to work better than just a plain aircore?
Thanks for the great thread and all the 'research' guys.
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 15, 2012, 06:55:02 PM
   Guys:
   Thank you for taking the time and effort to do these tests, and report them.
   What the above test shows me is that by using two small and fairly cheap 10watt solar panel ($40 each), or a single 20 watt solar panel, one can light a small house, shed, mobil home, etz... For Free.  So, not bad at all.
   I think what this will all boil down to is using ferrite, as we had thought. But, PVC and insulated house wire is available anywhere, sometimes even for free, or nearly so.

   Phi:  Toroid cores are not all the same, and the cheap iron powder toroids that are commonly used as chokes, don't work very well. Maybe try to find a ferrite transformer, or some real ferrite toroid cores, or beads. But, the Lynx system will work even without the ferrite rod, or toroids, in anycase, but,  even the yellow iron powder toroid cores may help some.

   I'm now using the tiny 1/2" toroids that come in the CFLs, as those do work very well, and can even light a gutted CFL bulb, as well as leds.  They will work fine on Jt circuits, Exciter circuits, etz... Drawing almost nothing, especially when connected to the garden lights solar panels.
 HitmanMob1 has shown on his videos, how he was able to light 8 led bulbs, plus charge his laptop, using just 6 tiny solar panels from the garden lights, and a small transformer, and 6 volt battery. There is more to all this than voltage and current, as also the "frequency" used must be making this all possible.

   NickZ
 
   
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: lasersaber on June 15, 2012, 07:15:39 PM
Quote
Has anyone tried filling up one of those aircores with stacked power toroids?
The ones I have will fit nicely in 1" CPVC pipe. That pipe will be wrapped with
the secondary and some sort of 'adjustable' primary most likely.

I have tried that and it works great. That is how I made the coil in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkZKD7LHCzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkZKD7LHCzM)
 
I have not given up on the air core coils yet. I have seen some very promising effects with them.
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: lasersaber on June 15, 2012, 07:16:26 PM
Posted twice.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 15, 2012, 07:28:21 PM
     I think what this will all boil down to is using ferrite, as we had thought. But, PVC and insulated house wire is available anywhere, sometimes even for free, or nearly so.

   Phi:  Toroid cores are not all the same, and the cheap iron powder toroids that are commonly used as chokes, don't work very well. Maybe try to find a ferrite transformer, or some real ferrite toroid cores, or beads. But, the Lynx system will work even without the ferrite rod, or toroids, in anycase, but,  even the yellow iron powder toroid cores may help some.

   NickZ
 
 

This is what I will be using. They were about a quarter each on eBay (not including shipping):

SANLIN SL5 T22X14X8 - CORE MATERIAL TYPE: SL5 - EQUIV TO FERROXCUBE 3E4, TDK H5B AND SIEMANS EPCOS T65 (They are a nice blue color ;) )

PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 15, 2012, 07:31:10 PM
      I think what this will all boil down to is using ferrite, as we had thought. But, PVC and insulated house wire is available anywhere, sometimes even for free, or nearly so.

   Phi:  Toroid cores are not all the same, and the cheap iron powder toroids that are commonly used as chokes, don't work very well. Maybe try to find a ferrite transformer, or some real ferrite toroid cores, or beads. But, the Lynx system will work even without the ferrite rod, or toroids, in anycase, but,  even the yellow iron powder toroid cores may help some.

   NickZ
Nick: This is what I will be using: SANLIN SL5 T22X14X8 - CORE MATERIAL TYPE: SL5 - EQUIV TO FERROXCUBE 3E4, TDK H5B AND SIEMANS EPCOS T65
They cost about a quarter each on eBay and are a nice blue color ;) .
PC

EDIT: Damn forum, sorry for the double post... Thought the last one didn't go through.  ???
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 15, 2012, 09:13:08 PM
My goal in using the JR 2.0 circuit design with the Aircore coil was to design something anyone could make easily from a kit or scraps.  getting performance up to the E-Core level is daunting.  At some point it seems if we want E-Core like performance that is the way to go.  But if there is still a way to get performance with an Aircore and no added components, that would be great.

I wound a test Aircore coil today on the 3/4" PVC - 9" long length.  It is comprised of a full layer of 24 awg enameled floral wire (soft iron).  A layer of clear plastic tape, then a full 200 turn layer of 20 awg copper magnet wire, then a layer of clear plastic tape, and another 200 turn layer of 20 awg copper magnet wire, then a layer of 14 awg insulated electrical wire 70 turns.

I can configure this in a bunch of ways.  Three secondaries in series or parallel, Tesla parallel, and/or leave the iron wire out of the secondary circuit.  I have read in Laser Saber and Lidmotor postings they observe some really "interesting" effects with the iron floral wire.  I don't know what to expect, or if these "interesting" things are good or bad.

A coil of iron wire seems like a strange way to increase Induction in the secondary.  Not only will each iron loop reorient magnetically but it will also have a current induced along its length.  Iron is fairly resistive compared to copper so I am not sure how well this would work in the circuit.  If it is left out of the circuit the AC will just oscillate.

My hypothesis is that induction in the secondary will increase over a purely Aircore type and the coil will still self tune to resonance at varying loads.  I'll let you know what happens.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: b_rads on June 15, 2012, 10:48:59 PM
@Lynxsteam:
Due to the fact that I am one of those guys who has to try something to prove it does not work, I am planning a quick build of the LJL this weekend, I will wind on a piece of black iron pipe.  Will let you know next week how stupid I feel when this does not work. :-[
 
To really find yourself - you have to play hide n seek alone.
 
Brad S
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 15, 2012, 11:32:13 PM
  Lynx:
   Great explanation, and goals.
   In order for the aircore to be more effective than E-core, at induction,  it may have to be of a certain size. The bigger the better, to a degree.
   I'm trying to incorporate the Exciter type circuit, here,  onto this idea, somehow.  As I feel they are related, like brother and sister. 

  As the Exciter circuit can also work like a transmitter/receiver , with Leds receiving the signal, or CFLs, or the Florescent type bulbs. Even the incandescent bulbs will work. And that same wireless signal can also be partially spread throughout the house, by using some repeaters, or even just on a short one wire transfer.
  Any ways,  that's the plan, Sam.    I'm, just a bit behind you all,  but I'm getting there.
As I'm on "Jungle Time", and the salt water fishing has been good...
  It's always interesting,  even just watching to see what others are doing, as that can save me some time, and effort.
    Picture of the beach in front of my lot...

  NickZ

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 16, 2012, 05:01:41 AM

Hi witty, clever, patient and conscientious experimenters,

Sorry for disturbing.

In spite of a botched secondary? (=the one with a lot a turns) coil, I'm able to run this amazing
Lynx Joule Lamp while drawing not too much amps (less than 1/2 amp). It is just a first attempt.
I only use 6W fluorescent bulbs.
I do not notice too much amp consumption increasing when adding a bulb.

Anyway, thanks again to 'Lynx'.  I'm now able to amaze my friend with this magical device. :P
------------------
Previous (Lux meter) measurement with a mere Joule Thief shown that this CCT was more than twice
Efficient than the 'brute force'.
---------------
Using only one transistor is very very smart and (too elegant?), indeed.
Perhaps, one 'well placed' potentiometer could be of any help (current consumption-wise?)
-----------------
Now, according to some datasheets, this very 2N3055 transistor has an hFE between 20 and 70.

Fortunately? (for once?) one of my 2N3055 has, according to my small 'intelligent?' Transistor tester,
an hFE of more than 250!
http://www.selectronic.fr/testeur-de-transistors-autonome.html (http://www.selectronic.fr/testeur-de-transistors-autonome.html)
I used this transistor...

Does this huge unusual hFE could explain anything?
----------------------
BTW: If you want to recharge big batteries with small and cheap solar panels, what about using these solar panels
to just recharge one small battery and to use this small battery as an input to a Bedini SSG?
This Bedini's SSG will be able to recharge your big batteries. Please be patient.

Just my 2 cents.

Very Brest,
Jean

PS: Plijout a ra din c'hoari a-wechoù







Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 16, 2012, 05:04:17 AM
@ Team

Undaunted, I press on.  I am encouraged to keep trying by your efforts and ideas.  I hope I am an encouragement for your efforts as well.

I tried the iron wire secondary underlying the copper secondary.  Amazingly enough, and trying every configuration of series, parallel, iron wire out of circuit in circuit, the best result was exactly the same as the LJL Aircore power draw and less brightness.  I look forward to LaserSaber/  Lidmotor and others letting us in on the interesting effects they see.  Obviously I missed the right way to utilize the iron wire.

I tried the thin steel mop handle tube as a core.  Bad idea!  Low brightness and transistor got really hot.  Low frequency, high amp draw, low voltage.  There is a reason manufacturers make ferrite composites.

I have made a lot of these Aircores now, and I have one in particular that stands out as a good performer.  It has two layers of secondary with no tape between.  1360 total turns Secondary 30 awg.  The primary is a small gauge bell wire with 130 turns for a 10.46:1 ratio.  This is on the 3/4" PVC and the wound length is 8.5"  I don't know why, but this one shines.  A single 7.5 watt LED bulb lights the interior of my garage.  It does draw .875 amps with one bulb at 12.3 volts = 10.75 watts, but if you want full bright this one does.
A 3 watt Philips LED draws .530 amps x 12.3 volts = 6.5 watts.  But this bulb always is an amp hog.
Its not efficient but it is bright.

I'll pin down the specs on this aircore more tomorrow.  Hz, amp draw for multiple bulbs etc...  Maybe I can rewind it to get closer to 10:1 ratio and see how that goes.  Could also be that the length/diameter ratio is important as well.  I'll nail all this down and publish so you can replicate.  This one is the closest to E-Core performance.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 16, 2012, 06:12:19 AM
Update: I couldn't go to bed without looking at this aircore some more. 

Brightness is really good on this one.  I tried a few other primary spots and brightness doesn't apparently change.  I know that is dangerous to go by eye.

With one Utilitech 7.5 watt bulb I can drop amps to .75 at 140 turns, .398 amps at 180 turns for a 7.5:1 ratio.  Now we are talking!

The only thing I can see that is substantially different from other aircores is that the diameter is small.  Maybe this concentrates the magnetic field more strongly.  I wonder if an even smaller diameter and longer length would be even better.  Perhaps making the aircore on a pliable tube and bending it into a circle.  Instead of the field lines having to go out the ends and circle back around the exterior, the field would just go back and forth within the coil.

So rather than go big in all dimensions perhaps going long is better.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 16, 2012, 06:52:02 AM
 The air core can be wound and then formed into a circle, by forming or winding it onto a clear 3/4 inch hose with a wood plug at the ends where they join together.  You'd have an air-core toroid, and depending on the size, it also becomes an antenna, just like the small UHF circular antennas. I think that those are about 8 inches wide. But, It would look more like a TPU coil.

  I could see the Joule Lamp as being like a small Tesla Coil, with a thicker pancake coil at the bottom, which could be made with a 1/8" copper or shiny brass pipe that can be shaped tighter, or more open, even out at an angle, to help tune the circuit.  It would look cool too,  retro, yes. The Exciter Joule Lamp...
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 16, 2012, 08:07:33 AM
I have tried that and it works great. That is how I made the coil in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkZKD7LHCzM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkZKD7LHCzM)
 
I have not given up on the air core coils yet. I have seen some very promising effects with them.
Thank you for all the great videos LS! I will endeavor to play 'catch up' with you guys and post results when I have some results to post. You guys are truly inspirational. Keep up the great reasearch!!
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 16, 2012, 03:43:59 PM
@Nick Z

That's a beautiful view of the beach.  I live on a lake but yours is bigger!

The Torroidal AirCore you describe is exactly what I was thinking except I may make the diameter of the tube a bit smaller (1/2").  I have done some research on Torroidal AirCores - the magnetic field is completely enclosed by the coil which is ideal.

I tried the Tesla like coil with pancake near the bottom.  That's great for really high voltage and low amps.  To light multiple LEDs at around 90-120 volts takes amps.  That's why I started modifying to what you see now.  I can get up to 40 watts.  The fertile ground is an Aircore with 7.5:1 turns, completely wound secondary and primary.  I have even double wound both secondary and primary with good results.  I also suspect a tightly concentrated field within the secondary is key.  To achieve that requires a small diameter coil, and long length.  Capacitance using heavy insulated primary helps and needs to be balanced to the overall resistance to make the circuit function at high performance levels.

Getting closer.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 16, 2012, 03:56:06 PM
Update: I couldn't go to bed without looking at this aircore some more. 

Brightness is really good on this one.  I tried a few other primary spots and brightness doesn't apparently change.  I know that is dangerous to go by eye.

With one Utilitech 7.5 watt bulb I can drop amps to .75 at 140 turns, .398 amps at 180 turns for a 7.5:1 ratio.  Now we are talking!

The only thing I can see that is substantially different from other aircores is that the diameter is small.  Maybe this concentrates the magnetic field more strongly.  I wonder if an even smaller diameter and longer length would be even better.  Perhaps making the aircore on a pliable tube and bending it into a circle.  Instead of the field lines having to go out the ends and circle back around the exterior, the field would just go back and forth within the coil.

So rather than go big in all dimensions perhaps going long is better.

GREAT ideas flowing here, also Nick and others! 

Now let me emphasize again how EASY it is to make QUANTITATIVE MEASUREMENTS so that we don't have to "go by the eyes" only.  Lynx noted correctly:

Quote
I tried a few other primary spots and brightness doesn't apparently change.  I know that is dangerous to go by eye.

Right.  So again a photo inside my "simple" light box... and it is fast and easy to build!  I realize we may be criticized for the low-cost measuring tool -- but I will defend this as a way to get REASONABLE numbers with which we can DETERMINE WHEN WE ARE MAKING IMPROVEMENTS. 

Look, its simply a box lined with aluminum foil, and a light (lux) meter at one end.  Simple.
And the lux meter was less than $14 bucks! 

Maybe your calibration is "rough", using bulbs with known LUMENS on the package and known wattage.  That's OK -- we don't have the budget of CERN!  But just having "RELATIVE NUMBERS" when you change something is a BIG help.

For example, running the "cranberry" air-core built by Lynx shown in the photo below, I find 4650 Lux with three bulbs when running at 12V @ 1.20 A (14.4W).  Then, when I insert a 9-mm diameter ferrite rod into the air-core, I get 3720 Lux running at 12V @ 0.74A (8.9W).

Did the Lumens/Watt Increase?  To answer that, I would need to do a calibration using bulbs with known LUMENS on the package and known wattage.  And I've done that. 

BUT== even without a calibration for lumens, I can tell whether my little ferrite rod did an IMPROVEMENT by answering -- did Lux/Watt increase?  The answer is yes:

air-core alone:  4650 Lux/14.4W = 320 Lux/W for my light-box.added Ferrite rod:  3720 Lux/8.9 W = 420 Lux/W -- a big improvement in efficacy!

You see?  just having the light box in the SAME condition while I make changes OUTSIDE (in the air-core or circuit, etc) -- I can tell when I'm making solid improvements in the light output, per watt.   I can even put a number on the improvement -- 420/320 is about a 30% improvement.  I think that's significant, and it gives me ideas of further things to try now that I have a way to measure when I'm making improvements in light output/Watt.

Don't worry about the criticisms that this is a crude instrument, compared to CERN!   We can make refinements in the measurement later; right now we need NUMBERS from measurements, something better than the EYE alone.

PS -- which will work better (in more light output per watt), the air-core TOROID or the Tesla-coil (resonance-coupling) approach?  I'd like to know!  Happy experimenting!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 16, 2012, 04:11:12 PM
oops -- accidental double post argh...
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 16, 2012, 05:38:50 PM
I totally agree, I have just been lazy to order the light meter.  I will order one and build to your specs so we can compare results.

Hopefully others will go the Tesla Coil route.  I want to try the aircore torroidal wound coils and see what happens.  It makes sense when you think about the field dispersion in a solenoidal wound coil.  Getting the secondary in as strong a field as possible makes sense.  I think it is amazing that the Aircore performs as well as it does compared to a ferrite core which boosts the field strength by 1000's times. 

The question isn't why doesn't the Aircore perform better, the question is why does it perform as well as it does?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 16, 2012, 05:50:07 PM
  At one time I had made this (Picture below) into a Joule Ringer circuit, crystals lit by some colored leds. 

  I got no help from Radio Shack here obtaining the 2n3055 transistor, as they didn't have any, so I'll have to use another one for now, for the Joule lamp. I'll see what I can come up with.
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 16, 2012, 06:35:05 PM
Just wanted to say that I agree that LUX meter is essential to testing bulb brightness. Tune and test, tune and test, tune and test... Exactly how progress is made in slow steady steps. Duplications and comparisons. Right on...
I was wondering if anyone here has tried using a wound toroid as a primary on a straight aircore? It would have to be a big toroid or a small aircore probably...
Also I was thinking that PHI (1.618) or the 'Golden Ratio' conjugate (-0.618) may come into play when spacing the inner/outer/? cores. Direct wind is easiest but maybe the addition of a measured space between those winds will increase the outputs (increase coupling), lower amp draw (more resonance = lower resistance right?), etc... Stuff to try myself when I get up and running on this project I suppose...
Nice pics Nick, looks like a great place to relax... Cool crystal light too! :)

Happy experimenting
PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 16, 2012, 07:50:13 PM
   Lynx:
   Just saw this video again, and it reminded me of the way that air-cores, and ferrite cores or the E-cores can maybe even work better together. Half the draw.

   Magnetman always has some neat stuff to show.
   Joule ringer power.MOV - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=EPHD6ZGJHHs)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: MileHigh on June 16, 2012, 09:33:44 PM
How about a design competition for you enthusiasts out there?

The challenge is to make a truly practical light for indoor use at nighttime that runs on renewable energy.  We will assume that this will be based on using a solar array during the daytime.

Here are some suggested design goals:

- charge during the day, use at night for an "unlimited" number of days.
- easy to use
- at least one hour worth of practical illumination per evening (eg:  You can sit next to it and read a book.)
- no noise emitted
- 100% renewable energy
- if a battery is used then you have to do extra testing to make sure the battery is truly being recharged enough during the daytime to replace the energy expended at nighttime
- reasonable cost
- easy to build
- easy to get parts

I don't follow this thread so perhaps it's already done.  Or perhaps the requirement for one hour of useful illumination is too easy to do.  Perhaps three hours is a better target to shoot for?

MileHigh
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: MileHigh on June 16, 2012, 09:45:34 PM
Just some "outside of the box" ideas.

Note for any Joule Thief or Super Joule Thief there is an energy overhead to run the oscillator that makes the whole thing work.  Also, there is the argument that for certain applications the sharpest possible on-off transitions for the main power coil are the most desirable.  The JT architecture isn't particularly good at generating sharp transitions.

One possible solution to these two problems is to use a 555 timer.  It's an oscillator that gives you sharp transitions, exactly what you want.  It's also low power.  If you use CMOS 555 timers then it's ultra low power.

So with 555 timers you can emulate exactly what a Joule Thief does and sort of make a clone Joule Thief.

The other thing 555 timers give you is absolute control over the timing.  In a Joule Thief you have a bunch of interacting components that generate the timing so it's much more difficult to control.

With two cascaded 555 timers you can generate a pulse waveform with control over the pulse frequency and also for the length of the "active" pulse.  That corresponds to the flicker rate and the intensity of your CFL or LED light.  So you can really control how much power you send to the light bulb.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: MileHigh on June 16, 2012, 10:17:21 PM
If I took up the challenge here is how I would do it:

I would take a modular approach.  One module is the solar panel.  Another module is what I will call the "Pulser" that contains the CMOS 555 timers.  The third module is the LED light.  The fourth module is the battery.  Each module would connect to the other module with a nice easy-to-use connector.  I think that I might use a 1/4-inch jack, like a headphone jack.

Daytime:   [Solar Panel] -> [Pulser] -> [Battery]

Nighttime:  [Battery] -> [Pulser] -> [LED Light]

You can see how the battery and the pulser have to move back and forth between outside and indoors each day.  Seeing that it would be tempting to create a single module that combines the two functions.  Then you could have a switch that changes the order that the pulser and the battery are connected together.

The modules:

[Solar Panel] - large enough to do the job

[Battery] - something like a 12-volt motorcycle battery

[LED Light] - a standard 60-watt equivalent LED light but with the electronics stripped off (that just wastes energy)

[Pulser]  - consists of the two 555 timers, a big transistor on a small heatsink, protection neons, a big coil, diode.  This would be like the heart of a classic Bedini motor.  There would be a switch on the module to change the programming of the 555 timers.  One position would select timing suitable for pulse charging the battery from the solar panel.  The other position would select timing suitable for driving the LED bulb to a suitable illumination level.  You could easily add a potentiometer to control the intensity of the LED bulb also.

So the trick here is to use a generic "Back EMF" pulsing coil setup just like in a Bedini motor to do double-duty, charging the battery during the day and powering the light at night.

If you are very careful with the timings that you use to energize the coil, you should be able to maximize your efficiency.  Note the "overhead" for wasted power is very very low in this design.

Finally, here is the Cadillac version of the design:

You combine the pulser module and the battery module into a single module like I stated above.  You know how when you put a cordless phone headset into a cradle it makes contact to recharge?  Same deal here.

Imagine a "basket" with a handle that holds the combined module - the motorcycle battery and the pulser module.  In the daytime you pick up the basket and you bring it outside and drop it into the charging cradle next to the solar panel.   Then at night you move the basket to the power cradle to power the LED light.   That's more expensive of course, but it makes it 100% easier to use.  Note you can go to any garage sale and get some junk cordless phones and then with some determination you could "dissect" the "cradle" parts out and reuse them.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: MileHigh on June 16, 2012, 10:31:38 PM
Phichaser:

Quote
Just wanted to say that I agree that LUX meter is essential to testing bulb brightness. Tune and test, tune and test, tune and test...

How did the Egyptians build the Pyramids and keep them perfectly level?  They simply had a trough around the perimeter and filled it with water.

If you are going to gut a CFL or use it without gutting it in your experiment then you just have to compare the brightness put out by your setup with the same unmodified model of CFL plugged into a 120 VAC socket.  Same thing if you work with an LED light bulb.

Keep it simple and anybody can do it!  Nothing to buy!

MileHigh
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 17, 2012, 12:40:18 AM
Phichaser:

How did the Egyptians build the Pyramids and keep them perfectly level?  They simply had a trough around the perimeter and filled it with water.

If you are going to gut a CFL or use it without gutting it in your experiment then you just have to compare the brightness put out by your setup with the same unmodified model of CFL plugged into a 120 VAC socket.  Same thing if you work with an LED light bulb.

Keep it simple and anybody can do it!  Nothing to buy!

MileHigh

What happens when your DC conversion setup and your 120v house supply start to 'look' the same? I agree with the idea that our eyes are really the 'only' real meter we need for lumens, but how can you 'see' minor changes when you alter minor components (change tunings, whatever...) without some sort of test equipment (not necessarily a meter)?
PC
EDIT: People doing 'research' need some sort of reliable 'platform' to compare results as well...
BTW, I like the 555 timer and phone cradle ideas! ;)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 17, 2012, 02:05:50 AM
I totally agree, I have just been lazy to order the light meter.  I will order one and build to your specs so we can compare results.

Hurray!  I think you'll find this is a very useful tool.
Quote
...
The question isn't why doesn't the Aircore perform better, the question is why does it perform as well as it does?

Very much agreed.

Busy day (and I'll be out most of this evening) -- but I got several experiments in and made progress, described in this video:


http://youtu.be/Mz2osV3NRDQ (http://youtu.be/Mz2osV3NRDQ)

From the text:

Quote
More results starting with the circuit designed by Lasersaber (SJR 2.0) and the build by Lynxsteam.  Congratulations, gentlemen, looking good!  I've tried a few variations myself, including addition of a 20-cm-long ferrite core and some cheap 36-LED bulbs I've found.  Finally, I've reached 95 Lumens/Watt running off 17VDC.

 Most LED bulbs off-the-shelf in the US give around 50 to 70 Lumens per watt using the grid-mains.  So already, reaching 95 Lumens per Watt is notable (drawing 6 W @ 17VDC) -- and I congratulate Lynxsteam, Lasersaber, Lidmotor, Peanutbutter and all others who have contributed to this progress. 

 I am hopeful that friends in Haiti and Mali (who have enjoyed my solar funnel cookers) will appreciate the realization of bright, cheap, off-grid lighting!  We're getting there!


Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: MileHigh on June 17, 2012, 03:18:54 AM
PhiChaser:

I am suggesting doing the bulb comparison because it works and it should be consistent from one builder to the next.  Measuring Lumens is fine to, but one experimenter's homemade measurement setup will be different from another person's so they can't really compare measurements.  Certainly when doing measurements on your own setup you will be able to see what your tweaking does to your light output.

The more I think about it, trying to replicate the brightness of an unmodified bulb you are working with when connected to standard 120 (or 240) VAC makes sense.  I think most people would agree that reading with a 40-watt old school light bulb is not comfortable but reading with a 60-watt bulb is.  So measuring very little power consumption where the bulb is too dim to be of practical use is not very useful.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 17, 2012, 03:33:22 AM
PhiChaser:

  Measuring Lumens is fine to, but one experimenter's homemade measurement setup will be different from another person's so they can't really compare measurements. ...

MileHigh

This is not correct. Lux depends on the set-up, but when the lux-to-lumens calibration is done as I have described above, then one can really compare measurements, in LUMENS!  There is some calibration uncertainty/error (perhaps several percent), of course, but this can also be taken into account.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 17, 2012, 04:32:06 AM
Very exciting progress Joule Seeker and great video!

I am glad you didn't give up on this.  Sometimes I think this is a waste of time, and then I get another idea to try.  I am glad you tried the ferrite rod.

I made the torroidal aircore.  It works but nothing thrilling.  Same amp draw as others, and less brightness.  However, I did use 1/2" butyl tubing, 2000 turns and 200 turns.

But back to LJL verison 3.0.  Tonight I brightly lit 4 Utilitech 7.5 watt bulbs on 800 ma at 12.3 volts, 22 Khz.  At 20 volts amp draw was 1.5 amps, at 14 Khz.  Super, super bright.  I would say I have these set up so that they run at 17 volts as you have found.  Can we figure out why and settle them down to a more user friendly voltage of 12 or 24?  12 would be the most common and economical.

I need to keep working with this one and find out what's special.   It is very different from what we all started with at the top of this thread.  The secondary is different, and the primary is full and looped back on itself 1/4 of the aircore.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 17, 2012, 12:26:04 PM
PhiChaser:

I am suggesting doing the bulb comparison because it works and it should be consistent from one builder to the next.  Measuring Lumens is fine to, but one experimenter's homemade measurement setup will be different from another person's so they can't really compare measurements.  Certainly when doing measurements on your own setup you will be able to see what your tweaking does to your light output.

The more I think about it, trying to replicate the brightness of an unmodified bulb you are working with when connected to standard 120 (or 240) VAC makes sense.  I think most people would agree that reading with a 40-watt old school light bulb is not comfortable but reading with a 60-watt bulb is.  So measuring very little power consumption where the bulb is too dim to be of practical use is not very useful.

MileHigh

@ MH: I agree the best way is to do side by side 'brightness' tests. What else would you measure besides power usage though? I agree that a certain level is too dim to bother with measuring but I wouldn't set the bar at a 40w incandescent bulb. That wattage actually used to be in my reading lamp on my nightstand and in multiples is plenty bright to light your home with. Say you need (hypothetical) one AA battery to run a 20w bulb, or two to run a 40w bulb, or three to run a 60w 'old school' bulb. Which is more efficient: Three 20w bulbs or one 60w bulb or two 40w bulbs running at 75% power/lumens? If the 'power usage' measured the same when you did the math, how would you know if you didn't measure the lumens which setup was actually better?
What about running a 100w bulb (with our hypothetical 5 AA batteries of course!) at 60% power/lumens? You see where I'm going here with this...
I didn't mean to imply that you NEED a lux meter to do lighting research, it IS just another measurement device. I agree that the setup is everything with that type of measuring...
I will happily settle for 'bright' myself...  8)
Our eyes work well enough to say if something is 'brighter' or 'dimmer' which works just fine for most folks most of the time. But if you want to measure 'light output', what else are you gonna use that will give you some kind of number?
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 17, 2012, 05:15:14 PM
  It would be good to use 12v as a standard. As that is what both the solar panels, as well as the common 12 batteries use, or need.
The12v Lithium batteries would probably work the best for their size, like Lasersaber is using. It may not take a big battery, as he uses a small one to light 10 bulbs.
  I'm still wondering just how Hitman was able to light 10 AC 2 watt led bulbs, AND,  charge his laptop using only 6 small 3volt  solar garden light cells. So, I'm also trying to see how I can make that work, as I already have what it takes. But, Hitman used the 6 solar cells, to  charge a 6volt battery. And,  used only a single, 2n3055transistor,  a small capacitor, and a used 220v to 12v Halogen lamp transformer.  No other components to make this all work. But, what he has not mentioned is how long it runs for, at night.
  So, I'm going to be working on that replication, also. Only I just found that my garden light solar cells are 4v and 30 mA, but some of them are only 1.5 volt solar cells. And I have a 12 4.5 Ah battery instead of the 6 volts one that he uses. So, I need more solar cells to reach 18 volts. He probably has them in series, as 6 times 3 is 18 volts which would work for me, but he uses a 6 volt battery instead.
  I was thinking that led bulbs can also be placed on the same box, or container, in such a way that THEIR light would also keep charging the battery, through the same solar cells, while those leds are on, at NIGHT, also. Doesn't hurt, if it can be done, practically.
 
   In case you haven't seen this Hitmanmob1 video I uploaded a link.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pti_qpTg32o&feature=BFa&list=ULiHmT09MP_Ms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pti_qpTg32o&feature=BFa&list=ULiHmT09MP_Ms)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 18, 2012, 07:29:49 AM
Peanutbutter asked a question over at EF -- may be helpful to post here, as this is where I plan to post on this subject in the future/  Here's my post over there, then:

@Peanutbutter -- you assumed incorrectly, but let me clarify:

Quote
Peanutbutter:

To first put aside the shown proven calibration variation (10-15Lu/w) between bulbs and just run with the above shown calibration (for all bulbs ever made), we end up with;

5480 Lux x [SIZE="4"].0793[/SIZE] = 434.5 Lumens (said 550)
434.5 Lumens / 6.018w = 72.2 Lu/W (said 95)

Above is using only Prof's conversion factor and Prof's shown numbers. This calibration was HIGHLY defended,[SIZE="4"] so I assume it's the same.[/SIZE] Again, we know calibration varies in favor of daylights; relative to warm white calibration with incandescent or compacts.


I have said (and further it seems rather obvious) that the calibration factor depends on the number of bulbs and will change when more bulbs are used.


Thus, the 0.0793 factor applies only for ONE bulb in this light box.  In the vid, I clearly say - and show inside the box - that FOUR bulbs are used!  so the calibration factor is NOT .0793 as you assumed.

I could leave it there, but you sort of asked, so I will note here that for four bulbs, I of course did the calibration, and the calibration factor for 4 bulbs in the positions shown is 0.103, so we have:

5480 Lux x 0.103 = 564 Lumens
564 Lumens / 6.018w = 94 Lu/W

I said 95 Lu/W because on run I did before making the vid, I had 5530 lux --> 570 Lumens, and
570 Lumens / 6.018w = 95 Lu/W (rounding).

Note that this small variation (94 or 95) is within the uncertainty (quite small) from run to run -- things are repeatable!  Again, that video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz2osV3NRDQ&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz2osV3NRDQ&feature=youtu.be)

Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 18, 2012, 02:21:00 PM
I think what Nikola Tesla was trying to teach us 100 years ago is that work can be accomplished with "Brute Electrical Force"  amps x volts, or by a more elegant form - voltage x frequency.    Its hard for us to view things in a different way from what we have all been taught about watts being amps x volts.  Motors and resistive loads need watts, but light has a frequency component.

Joule Seeker - can you try another experiment with the Cranberry LJL aircore?  I really want to see if we can get the same astounding results on 12 volts.  I assume you were using the full 107 primary turns.  Can you try 75 turns primary and 12 - 12.8 volts?  That should provide the same step up factor.

Thanks
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2012, 07:46:12 PM
  If the 12volt version of the Cranberry air-coil is made, Please give us at least an idea on what the wire lenghts are, wire guage, and dimension of the pvc tube its mounted on, and type,  so it can be easily replicated. And the best circuit used on it,so far.
 
  I just made the "6 garden light solar panel" set up like Hitman used on his videos,  And so I am working on that replication now.
  I'm still wondering how long the charge on his little 6 volt battery lasts under the load of the 10  2 watt Led bulbs.  Might only be a few minutes?

  I'm using a 12 volt 4.5 ah LAB, connected to 6 solar cells, and all connected to my version of the Slayer Exciter set up, so it's now becoming a 12 volt Solar JT Exciter.
Total voltage output from the small series connected solar panels, is 15 volts, 30 mAs, for now. Not much current, but my Exciter will run on that, and even lower current.
 I may have to add a couple more solar cells to that, to get higher current output.
  Just wanted to see if I can get close to Hitmans results, which to me are also pretty amazing.

 I would like to make the Cranberry air-core, also.  I'll make that project into an actual Joule Lamp, too, to connect that to my Exciter type system.  Why?
Because I feel that once a strong main Exciter Oscillator coil (like magnetmans Exciter made into a lamp) is set up and working well,  almost any amount of additional lights can be run off of it, on Av plugs from a one wire connection, to run almost any amount of lights needed. I'm thinking about a very high-gain field Exciter, running off of 24 volt,  solar.
To what degree one can just keep adding more lights, is still to be seen. Maybe adding more lights will also work here, as it's seen that adding more leds can increases the light intensity on the Exciter circuits, as well. As the load is part of the "open" circuit pulling in ambient energies. But, possibly without the 5 to 10 bulb limit, that the direct wired closed connection to the oscillators transistor seems to be limited to.
 
  So,  the air-core has been having the best results? Even over those that were obtained from the E-cores, the 110-220v to 12v  iron transformers, and lastly the toroid air core???
   The cranberry air-core is the up to now all time output lm/w winner???  Great!

  Let me know if I got this all backwards, as my head is still spinning from watching all the different tests you are all doing, as well as others that are all going on now.
                                                                   
  NickZ
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 18, 2012, 10:52:08 PM
Since making the "Cranberry" LJL  I made some improvements that dropped amp draw 8% more on the "Licorice" model.  So if I detailed the specs and materials today they might change tomorrow.  As Joule Seeker records data we now are learning more about what changes cause what effects.
 
The Cranberry uses 736 turns on the secondary of 20 awg Essex magnet wire.  The primary is opposite wound 14 awg red insulated stranded wiring like you would use in a house, and full length is 107 turns.  Its on a 1- 1/2" PVC 14" long, using 13" of the PVC for the turns.  It uses just the 2N3055 as in Laser Saber's JR2.0.
It could be that more turns of 24 awg magnet wire would be better.  There are some insulating properties I am working through, and matching to the most efficient bulbs will take a bit more time.

But if you want to get started those are the main ingredients and you could start tweaking things yourself.
Keep in mind a couple weeks ago I was using 2.4 amps, and as I have made changes have it down to 1.21 amps for six 7.5 watt bulbs.  Joule Seeker's addition of the ferrite rod was the big breakthrough.  It allows the aircore to still act like an aircore but with nice efficiency.

It could be a smaller or bigger diameter PVC tube would be better.  Various shapes of ferrite might be better.  Could be that longer or shorter is better.  Rather than replicating you may want to try something a little different and find a better way to do this.

As is, this is a simple and convenient way to light a couple rooms with solar and a 12 volt battery.  It starts nice and is very robust.  The original size that was posted here originally is one of my best.  I think it is modified with 1360 turns and 150 turns. 

What some experimenters are doing is to find the highest efficiency which is important work, but not essential for lighting a few rooms right now.  Considering that solar is free, if your system is a little less efficient, so what?  Sometimes a solar controller just shunts power away to a dump load because the battery is full.  Any solar energy impinging on earth is here whether we use it or not.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 19, 2012, 01:03:30 AM
  Thank you for all that info... I will refer to it, when making the Cranberry, although I may have to name mine something like the "Mango Version", or something like that.
Here's a picture of someone that needs light in his hut, (picture below). No noddle pack.

   Today I'm noticing that while trying to make some light by using the recycled CFL's indoor lamp light. Which is being pick-up by my 6 garden light solar cells indoors.
 Although that does work, the 13 watt Cfl's grid source light output is still rather weak. As that CFL light hitting a small garden light solar panel, of that artificial light coming from a Cfl bulb is less than a 1/10 as useful ( 2 mAs) in producing current through solar cells. Compared to the natural sunlight which gives 30 mA on each of my little cells, (compared to only 2mA) that is picked up from the 13 watt CFL bulb. with the bulb right on top of the cell, almost touching the solar cell. Imagine the light intensity several feet away.
  I can see the deficiencies that living under mostly CFL, or even Leds, can cause.  As the light from Cfls and possibly leds is not of a warmer full spectrum current carrying type, like sunlight is.   Led light is are more like,  moonlight.

  So, it may not just be about the volts and watts, and "frequency" in these circuits.  There may also be another one of those allusive little things hidden in there, to have to look into to understand.

  I think that to messure led bulb light intensity at a DISTANCE, is very important (6 to 8 feet away). As that kind of artificial Led light has a brightness intesity loss factor,  (with distance from the source), that is different and much more pronounced than found when using  incandescent bulbs.  So, for a truer comparison of Led to incandescent bulbs outputs, comparing their  "light quality"  not just light intensity, especially at "useable distances from their source", like 6 to 8 feet, would also be useful.   
The golden light that the  incandescent bulbs produce, seams to go further away from the source, to light up a room with an even, warm pleasant spread out,  kind of fire light quality to it.   Yes, I still love it...
   Now the warm white/cool white led bulbs are getting closer to natural sunlight, but are they?  What about the quality of the light from the different led bulbs tested, any favorites???    Like, what is also the  "Best Quality" light, for the buck?  Not only just the brightest, that may be so bright you can't even look at it....     It was so bright, but, no one could stand it...    Dimmers?

   NickZ
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 19, 2012, 02:08:19 AM
  Lynx:
  Before I forget.  After I saw the toroid that you just made, I got to thinking... what would that core do if it was all packed tight with ferrite powder???
  You can take the ferrite cores, like from the back of old tv tubes, or monitors, and bang them to a powder with a hammer, sift it, and fill your tube with it.  What do you think?
Big ferrite toroid. I'll bet that it would work better than the hollow air core.
  There seam to be no getting away from the bigger is better, when it comes to these cores.
  Any ways, just thought that I'd let you know about that thought that came to me... before I forget it.
 
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 19, 2012, 05:59:46 AM
Thanks to Lynxsteam once again for a great idea --

  Nice progress this morning -- but I had trouble posting here this morning;
 see vid -- here's the text:

 Using the Lynxsteam build of the Lasersaber 2.0 SJR again...  Lynx asked me to tap the primary at winding 75 (instead of going to the end) AND to lower the voltage to 12.8 V, so that we would be able to run this with a standard 12V battery.  I did so -- congratulations Lynxsteam -- this now surpasses 100 Lumens per watt!
 
 The data recorded on this vid show:  385 mA @12.8V = 4.9W (input).  The output is 493 x 10 = 4930 Lux.
 The calibration factor (to lumens) is 0.103, so we have 4930 X 0.103 = 508 Lumens.
Thus, 508 Lm/4.9W = 104 Lm/W -- excellent progress!
 
 Note:  at 12.0 V, I found 102 Lm/W.   Note 2: at 12.8V, without the ferrite rod, I found 75 Lumens per watt -- 104 Lm/W with the ferrite rod. It makes a big difference!
 
 vid:  104LmPerWatt.AVI - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaNt74D4Ee8&feature=youtu.be)
 
Thanks for further ideas, Lynx and Nick.  Lots to try out as we press forward.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 19, 2012, 03:24:09 PM
Thank you Joule Seeker for your continued efforts on this device.  I think we have shown now that it is possible to make this with simple found objects as well as optimizing the design with precision.  Still a person needs the transistor, specialty wire, and the right shaped ferrite.  What we have achieved here is a blocking oscillator DC converter that doesn't ring, doesn't saturate at high frequency, and is fairly efficient with a single or multiple bulbs.  Seems pretty flexible to use with varying voltages and bulb types.

A couple ideas, I don't know how plausible.  There is something called a magnetic reactance transformer that doesn't use a transistor to oscillate, but I don't know if it applies.  Common black ceramic hardware magnets can be heated in an oven to 850 F slowly to demagnetize.  And just about any insulated wire will work.

A couple of comments.  Filling a torroid wound aircore with ferrite would be tedious and would be better to just use a manufactured torroid.  Stacking torroids on an aircore probably is mixing two very different mechanisms.  Torroids contain the field tightly inside.  Aircores need to have the field intersect at 90 degrees to the wire.

I have been picturing High Frequency movement of electrons.  An analogy would be to picture two tubes with tin foil covering the ends.  One has four small ball bearings inside, the other has 100 of the same ball bearing.  Shake both back and forth simulating AC.  The one with just four ball bearings shake back and forth hard and fast simulating high voltage and high frequency.  The one with 100 just roll back and forth slowly simulating 60 Hz and lower voltage.  The tin foil will be broken through in a short time by both methods representing work being done.  If electrons have mass, then mass times velocity would equal force.   Work is force times distance/time. 

In the case of these light bulbs we are using very little current at high voltage and high frequency.  The bulbs will run much cooler than if they are run off grid power, and that translates to energy savings and higher efficiency.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 19, 2012, 06:05:53 PM
  Yes, it may be a bit tedious to fill the hose or pvc pipe with ferrite powder, but it would work.  It would only take a few minutes to do.  As there may be no way of having a 14 inch ferrite rod 1/ 1/2 inch wide to fit into the PVC pipe, or hose.  Nor are there any 8 or 10 inch torroids that I know of.  The metglass ones cost $660.
 
  I guess that I'm used to crushing things like quarts, carbon, and other things for my power cells.  The ferrite can be obtained from any tv repair place, probably even for free.
When I'm ready to make the Mango version, I'll fill it up with ferrite, in the way that I mentioned.  Yes, it would be easier to buy the ferrite, but, can you?  I'll check on that too.
Anyway, it's just an idea.
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 19, 2012, 06:07:29 PM
  Congrats on the 104 lm/w guys.  That's just great!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 19, 2012, 09:51:23 PM
Nick-Z

Where the heck do you live?  Beautiful beach and a Sloth for a neighbor?  I live on a lake and a few neighbors are Sloths (different kind)

So, today I am trying a homemade transistor of sorts, made from galvanized steel, aluminum, some wire.  Its really just a negative resistance oscillator.  Kind of silly, because a person would still need a battery, wire and LED or CFL bulbs.  Can't really make lightbulbs too easily.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 20, 2012, 12:14:47 AM
Good ideas, fellas.  Here's a summary of experimental runs today; first a reminder from yesterday (where we enjoyed a big jump up in Lumens/Watt):

4 bulbs, tapping at winding 75 on the primary:
12.8V   385 mA   4.9W    Output: 508 Lm 104 Lm/W

 
Today, following suggestion from Lynxsteam, I tap the primary at other windings; winding 73 result:

12.8V   409 mA   5.2W    Output: 539 Lm 104 Lm/W: same Lm/W as winding 75

 
Tapping at winding 70 instead,
12.8V   458 mA   5.9W    Output: 597 Lm 102 Lm/W  : so light out increases, but Pin increases more and the efficacy drops a bit.

 
Add a 4700pF cap in parallel across the bulbs, tap at 75th winding:
12.8V   536 mA   6.9W    Output: 686 Lm,   96 Lm/W :  Lm/W decreases with added cap in this case.

 
Raising ferrite rod from bottom of PVC to supported in the middle raised the yield to about 105 Lm/W (winding 75).
I tried 12.3V; power in and out both drop, as expected; Lm/W = efficacy drops a little:
12.3V   325 mA   4.0W    Output: 412 Lm ;    103 Lm/W

 
 I tried adding a bulb, so 5 in lieu of 4 bulbs:
12.8V   436 mA   5.6W    Output: 591 Lm 106 Lm/W  – so output light increases and Lm/W up with the 5th LED bulb. 

Add a second ferrite rod, this time the yield increased (with 5 bulbs and at 74th winding):
12.8V   304 mA   3.9W    Output: 416 Lm 107 Lm/W.

Note that the input-power drops along with total light output, but the efficacy increases.
Pause to note that the Utilitech 7.5W bulb (110VAC) puts out 450 lumens, about 60 Lm/W.


 
One more test – tap into 80th winding on the primary, but with same 5 bulbs and 2 ferrite rods in place:
12.8V   303 mA   3.9W    Output: 397 Lm 102 Lm/W

 
So we find an incremental but solid increase from yesterday's 104 Lm/W, to 107 Lm/W with the 5th bulb and 2 ferrite rods.

 
It would be great IMO to get above 110 Lm/W.  Lynx has talked about winding a new coil, smaller or larger. Changing the core would also be good;  having the ferrite core go into a complete LOOP would be great to try!  Lots of ferrite... or metglass (etc)

Or somehow getting back to the resonance nature of the Tesla coil...  that would be great...
I would also like to find a way to RELIABLY measure the actual OUTPUT POWER, to compare with the input power.   The trick is measuring the output power in the case of high voltage and fairly high frequency (around 15-40 kHz typical; I don't usually leave the DSO hooked up since this could affect the measurements).    Measuring Lumens-out is a start, but IMHO not quite enough for the inquiring mind.


 
All in all, 107 Lumens/Watt with a simple system, running off 12.8VDC, is pretty good! 
 

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 20, 2012, 12:38:16 AM
Hi Joules Looters,

Sorry if this is a little bit off topic.

I have successfully built/replicated  the "Slayer exciter circuit test" (see picture).
BTW: thanks to 'Slayer*' for his CCT.

I use a small 4.5 volts bat and one (or 2 (for the moment)) 6 watts fluorescent tube(s).

It works with (more than 30 years old out off my mess) 2N1613 or 2N1711 transistors,
so, this 2N2219 is not 'redhibitory'.

My L1 should have about (600-650) turns of #30 (0.25 mm) wire on a 2.5 cm ((one inch) diameter tube) - length 17.5 cm.
My L2 have 3/3.5? turns of #15/16/17? insulated wire.
Why not 4 turns or more? Just because I (purposely) used this 'trashed/refused' wire (plijout a ra din c'hoari a-wechoù).
 
It draws 100 ma (under the said 4.5 volts).
The transistor does not get hot at all.
I had to add a 4.7K pot. to the 1K resistor to get the circuit working each time
I switch it on. :) ) It was not the case with a single 1K resistor.

Now, I will order a bunch of these small 4 and 6 watts fluorescent tubes just to figure out
how many of these tubes I can "connect" on this amazing CCT.
-----------------
This post is not intended to provoke some diversion but to tell you that, IMO, all these kinda
CCTs seem to be very 'flexible'. It looks like we do not need to too accurately follow the specifications.
This consideration is not intended also to lessen the merits of the inventors (Slayer/Lynx/???/Etc...)
For my part, I would not have been able to even dare to think about such circuits!
However, I dared to walk on fire! (BTW: It works for anybody).
 
Bien le bonjour chez vous,
Jean

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 20, 2012, 01:50:59 AM
Jean,

Nice!  I have built a lot of Joule Thief circuits and they are amazing because they defy the things we have been taught.  Lots of fun and useful.  Keep experimenting, its good for the brain.

Since you changed the subject so will I.

How about a 3 watt LED on 44 ma 12 volts no transistor, no resistor, no capacitor.  Some wire, a stick or plastic tube, some scrap metal.  Hmm?

I was surfing the web looking for some ideas and stumbled on http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/els/zincosc-el.htm (http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/els/zincosc-el.htm)

I didn't put this in the circuit the way he does.  I wanted to fit the concept into the reversed biased HV circuit and light LED bulbs.  He doesn't use the aluminum with the galvanized as a NPN bipolar combo, but definitely this website inspired me to try making my own scrap metal oscillator.  Whatdyaknow - it works.  Next up is to refine this, and incorporate it as part of the LJL build.  I am thinking of wrapping a strip of aluminum around the aircore tube, then tape, then the treated galvanized, then tape and then a strip for the emitter.
See the video below, I think you will be amazed as I was.  This is how the early experimenters were proceeding in the 1920's with the blocking oscillator circuits.  I am learning so much more from 100 year old technology.  Its amazing when you start seeing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHWMeF5ybCg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHWMeF5ybCg)

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 20, 2012, 02:09:49 AM
  I decided to try out the E-core-based Lasersaber SJR 2.0, with the SAME FIVE BULBS as used in the air-core-based tests above.

Results in this vid -- sorry its dark...  I will get more light on the subject next time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0WSrcWDy3c&feature=youtu.be

Text:
Quote
  Today I test with 5 LED bulbs and my build of the Lasersaber SJR 2.0 device.  I wound the E-cores with approx. a 10:1 ratio for the secondary:primary.  Here I push to 23 VDC input, and measure (real-time) the current drawn and the light output.

  The current is 237mA @ 23 V = 5.45W.  The light output is 4750 Lux and to get lumens we multiply lux by 0.111 for five bulbs (box previously calibrated using American-rated bulbs).  The result is 4750 x 0.111 = 527 Lumens, so 527/5.45 = 97 Lumens per watt.   Note that this result is close to the 98 Lm/W that PeanutButter got with his (transformer-based) build yesterday IIRC.

Good progress!  but:  1 -- running at 23V like this blew the 2N3055 transistor -- dead.  I was concerned I blew out the bulbs, but the bulbs tested OK after I replaced the 2N3055.

2.  Also, I did somewhat better with the air-core Lynxsteam approach on the same Lasersaber circuit -- 104 Lm/Watt yesterday (see my previous video) -- and 107 Lm/W today (at 416 Lumens, with the SAME five bulbs and the same circuit -- just changed the cores).  Note that I inserted one ferrite core in the air-core to get to 104 Lm/W, and two ferrite cores to get 107 Lm/W today.  I have also run at 591 Lumens (@106Lm/W) with the air-core plus ferrite; for further discussion please see:  http://www.overunity.com/12340/joule-lamp/new/#new .

IMHO, these approaches are worth further study and the light-box is very helpful in quantifying the light output so that one can make comparisons -- and progress!
Happy experimenting!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 20, 2012, 02:17:29 AM
Merci beaucoup, Nerzh! 
 Like Lynx and you, I've built a bunch of these BO circuits also.  Fascinating.

Happy hunting to both of you!  pls keep reporting here if you would; too many threads are a tad hard to follow IMO.

On va voir s'il y a quelque chose d'interessant ici;  je pense que Oui.

(Again, my today's vid on this fun stuff is here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0WSrcWDy3c&feature=youtu.be )
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 20, 2012, 04:05:50 AM

Hi Lynxsteam,

I do like:
.... they are amazing because they defy the things we have been taught. ....


Come on!
No transistor. No resistor. No Capacitor!
... A piece of tape.
... It is pretty remarkable/interesting.
You bet it is!

You should be kidding!
And you are not!

Who are you Mr LynxSteam?
Are you a kinda magician?
IMO, you deserve any "experimenter prize"!

For the moment I have to sleep...

Very best,
Jean
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 20, 2012, 04:29:50 AM

Hey Prof. S. Jones!

Your French is pretty good indeed!
How comes you learnt this silly language?

Very Best,
Jean
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 20, 2012, 01:20:20 PM
Wish I could speak French!

In regards to my "No Transistor" video.  I moved the base alum a bit and then couldn't replicate my own experiment.  I tried everything until I accidentally shorted the base to the collector.  Touching the Alum to the Zinc gave me enough continuity to start oscillation, but the major component was 12 volt DC.  Turns out that bulb will light with 12 vdc.  The AC component was vicious and burned my fingers even through the insulated wire. 
I am sure this is an area to explore but I believe in the end more components would be required and there is no need to make something simple a lot more difficult.

So then I went back to my original idea of using the small signal transistors - NPN type instead of the NPN power transistor.  They handle high frequency better.  Last night I paralleled two of them with very good results.  I also think having an aluminum plate at the end of a solenoidal coil is a bad idea due to eddy currents, so that mounting bracket is getting changed.

If you guys were replicating all my mistakes you would be getting irritated by now.  A couple more refinements and I will publish this updated LJL.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 21, 2012, 05:11:26 PM
      In my previous vid, I showed the Lynxsteam "cranberry" open-core and results of 107 Lumens/W.  Pretty good -- Lynx noted that there was an aluminum cover on the bottom of the coil holding the 2N3055 which could rob output power due to eddy currents in the aluminum.

     So today I removed this Al cover from the coil axis, placing it outside (along-side) the coil where the B field is small.  The result  shows an improvement in efficacy; primary tapped at winding 75, and I placed 2 ferrite rods in the air-core:

12.8 V  0.332A  ->  4.25W    463 Lumens (with 5 bulbs)   463/4.25 = 109 Lumens per Watt!

Congratulations once again, Lynxsteam!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 21, 2012, 05:50:38 PM
 Be careful of the eyes!  One advantage of the light box I hadn't thought of before today -- I don't have to look at the bulbs at all; the lux-meter gives me a quantitative reading of the light output without my eyes getting zapped.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 21, 2012, 10:08:30 PM
  Talking about eyes getting zapped.  Last night I finally go my Exciter circuit to light up  the several CFL bulbs that I have.  So, I'm very glad to be having my eyes zapped in this case,  as it also means I'm looking at some good useable light intensity. 
  May have to wear sunglasses now...

  For my exciter circuit I placed two L3 coils that are wound on clear plastic tubes, that fit nicely one inside the other. It takes having two L3 coils, with my set up.  I also use a 1/2' toroid, as the "triger coil", a 2n2222 transistor, 1meg resistor, and In4148 diode.  The two L3 coil tubes are almost touching one another, but separated by the plastic tube. That may not be the best distance, for best results, if I separate the two tubes, I do get a slightly better output.
  So, now that that circuit is working, I'll connect it up to the solar cells, and be charging the 12volts, 4.5ah battery that is running the circuit. 
  I'll upload some pictures soon.
 
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 21, 2012, 10:26:00 PM
Joule Seeker,

Can you put in simple terms what the fantastic results you are seeing means?  For instance you are seeing more lumens per watt than the bulbs are specified to put out.  And we are inputting fewer watts than the bulbs would normally require.  What should someone expect from this type of DC converter?  Dim light and super efficiency, or good light at the same power draw as House grid?
As you report higher and higher lumens per watt it sounds really good, but we need some context or perspective.
For instance 109lumens per watt sounds good, but the bulbs are running with about half the watts they require.  Does that mean we need twice as many bulbs for useful light in a house?

Today, I made what I hope is the "definitive version" of the LynxJouleLamp.  It turned out very nice looking.  See schematic below.  It needs to be tested a lot before we publish the specifications.  I will send one to JouleSeeker for lumens testing.  Is there someone else that would like one for testing that isn't overseas?  I need someone to critique the look, feel, performance, ruggedness, safety.....Let me know here on the forum or PM me is fine too.



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 22, 2012, 04:33:52 AM
Here is the newest version of the LJL.  The changes were based on what Joule Seeker (Prof Jones) was finding out about lumens/watt, frequency and tuning.  Thank You Joule Seeker for your encouragement, ideas, and contributions to this area of work.  The design has come a long way from the original idea of a tesla coil based design.  Interestingly though a key aspect of making this work so well comes from Nikola Tesla's work.  And you can't beat the simplicity of Laser Saber's idea of a single reverse biased transistor.
I want to get this tested now and finalize the design.  Then I will publish the design for those wanting to build it, and for anyone around the world who finds it useful.  I will also make these for people not wanting to invest in spools of wire.  I am sure people will find better circuits and better ways to make this in the future, but this is pretty nice.

I didn't mention this in the video.  With 4 bulbs and on the high setting, frequency is 18 khz, on low setting 32 khz.

http://youtu.be/z1H9ckDS_pE (http://youtu.be/z1H9ckDS_pE)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Magluvin on June 22, 2012, 06:27:32 AM
Hey All.  Nice work you guys.  I just gots to build one now.  ;] Over the weekend.

I have been reading here. might have missed some. But I got the drift.

The led bulbs. I assume that the input terminals go directly to a bridge rectifier and then a cap filter/storage in the bulb casing. Maybe a couple inductor/chokes along the way. Resistor/other circuitry?  I dont have one of these bulbs yet.

Has anyone tried to rectify the output of the coil to a cap to try looping? It "seems" that the LED light bulb is rectifying and storing. And the rectifiers in a device like these bulbs are probably not intended for the freq you guys are sending to the bulb terminals. Yet it works very efficiently. If no rectifiers to cap in the bulb, then, well, I dunno nuttin. ;]

Ill try some things. 

Thanks for all the good work.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: stprue on June 22, 2012, 01:31:44 PM
Just a quick question, has anybody tried this setup using a pancake style coil?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 22, 2012, 02:48:36 PM
I have tried just about everything.  The pancake coil will give you very high voltage but when you load it, the oscillations often stop.  Doesn't mean it can't work with some more thought and effort.  I wasn't interested in lighting just one bulb so I moved on to designs that could handle larger loads. 

Imagine a machine that runs off energy stored in a flywheel.  If the flywheel is small you can only extract a little energy or it will stall.  If the flywheel is large you can pull a lot of energy out of it and it will keep turning with just short bursts of input energy. 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 22, 2012, 04:26:48 PM
  Lynxsteam -- I really like your approach of building these super-coils (your latest design) and making them available -- selling them!  I hope they sell like hot-cakes.  I'm very glad to do testing (and see response below to your questions).

We need some way to get these inventions out the door, and you're taking a marketing approach which I hope works well, very well.  There is nothing wrong IMHO with seeking a fair return on an invention! 

I have encouraged Slider to take his small device (small, one-led and different from yours) into production mode also -- based on your bold step here.  At least I think it is bold and great!

We have on these boards discussed the dangers associated with seeking a patent; but you're not doing that.

Joule Seeker,

Can you put in simple terms what the fantastic results you are seeing means?  For instance you are seeing more lumens per watt than the bulbs are specified to put out.  And we are inputting fewer watts than the bulbs would normally require.  What should someone expect from this type of DC converter?  Dim light and super efficiency, or good light at the same power draw as House grid?
As you report higher and higher lumens per watt it sounds really good, but we need some context or perspective.
For instance 109lumens per watt sounds good, but the bulbs are running with about half the watts they require.  Does that mean we need twice as many bulbs for useful light in a house?


Good questions; I wish I knew all the answers.   Yesterday with your "cranberry" air-core design (admittedly with added ferrite rods) I got 612 Lumens with 5.6 W input (5 bulbs, running at 12.8 V) -- which I think is amazing really.  The bulbs are designed for 1.5 W (each); this is running a little below that, 1.1 W each.

A 40-watt incandescent puts out about 500 Lumens, roughly 13 Lm/W, so 109 Lm/W is much better -- and 612 Lumens is quite bright.

Yes, we seem to be above the rated Lumens per watt typical for LED bulbs.  Two caveats:
1.  this particular bulb is from China and my experience is that they aren't careful in giving accurate lumens values (I've tested a dozen or so Chinese LED bulbs in my light box)
2.  Using Lumens out to estimate POWER-out is a start, but not a compelling result yet IMO.  For instance, it may be that at higher frequency and voltage, these bulbs exceed their rated Lm/W but without any ou-behavior involved.  I suspect that is the case.
So I would like to take the "next step" and actually measure the WATTS out from this device....  I'm working on it and would appreciate any ideas.
 
I would like to dump the AC power-out into a resistance-load, warm water, and measure the temp-rise.  Simple calorimeter approach.  If this loading does not itself change the circuit's efficiency!

As Mags says, it may be that the LED bulb first rectifies the AC input -- this is what I found when I disassembled a CFL bulb; but I haven't disassembled an LED bulb yet.   DC out makes it easier to measure Power out (IMO) -- so this is another approach to measuring P-out.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 22, 2012, 05:10:43 PM
Just to clarify, this will be "open source" information.  I am just going to offer ready made ones in case someone doesn't have the materials or finds that quantity minimums are too much $$$.  The 11# spools of copper I buy now are about $140 each, insulated wire is $79 a spool.  There is 450 feet of wire on the new model.

To measure power output is going to be very tricky.  Output changes according to load.  If you could get a resistive load like a heating element and adjust the Ohms until you get to the same hz as you would expect with the LED bulbs it might be accurate.  This is how we measure output of alternators at different rpm.  My guess is - there is very little energy lost in the DC-AC conversion.  So if you have 5 watts in at 95% that is 4.75 watts out, divided by 95 volts = 50 ma which is about right for LEDs.  I do think the frequency is like a "virtual amperage" in that the electrons impinge on the load with much more velocity. 

Sort of the difference between firing a bullet from a rifle vs dropping a bullet on your shoe.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: e2matrix on June 22, 2012, 05:12:12 PM
Nice work guys!   I've just got a little info to add as I'm not sure how you are measuring Lumens.   I spent years on a forum that is very concerned with accurate measurement of lumen output.   What is not commonly understood is that you need more than just a light meter to get accurate measurement.   The only way to get accurate measurements is with an integrating sphere where the light is inside a sphere.  Measurements done any other way can easily be off by 50% or more.  I don't want to dampen any enthusiasm.  Seeing Lynxstreams vid I was impressed with the amount of light and I'm sure you are onto something good here.   Just be aware of the Lumen measurement situation though.  Integrating sphere's are very expensive but Google search DIY integrating sphere's and you'll find some ways to make your own for reasonable if it is really important to have those Lumens exact.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 22, 2012, 08:23:02 PM
  Hi, e2matrix -- Yeah, I need to get to measuring power output more directly (as discussed in my last post) right away.    The light-box I'm using for COMPARATIVE Lumens measurements is helpful to see progress; but its not a sphere and besides (as I said) I'm ready to move along to measuring power output directly.

Good point, Lynx:
Quote
To measure power output is going to be very tricky.  Output changes according to load.  If you could get a resistive load like a heating element and adjust the Ohms until you get to the same hz as you would expect with the LED bulbs it might be accurate.  This is how we measure output of alternators at different rpm. 

I'm looking at this, adjusting resistance, combined with calorimetry, to get a solid handle on the output power.  It will be useful for other devices, too, of course.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 22, 2012, 09:29:12 PM
Hi Lynxsteam & people,
 
Would you ship your coils to France?
Could you give us some idea of your prices?

Else:
................
I am sure this is an area to explore but I believe in the end more components
would be required  and there is no need to make something simple a lot more difficult.
..........

I do agree.

I have tried to put a 1N4007 diode (your initial CCT) between the transistor base
and the transistor emitter. The amp consumption is divided by about 3 but
my 6 watts fluorescent tubes bright less.
Yes, this is a very accurate scientific measurement... :P

BTW: If you try this diode, please do not connect it between the transistor base
and the transistor collector as I wrongly did. I very promptly managed
to transform the 253055 into a mere diode. :-[

Some other 'measurements':
Frequency of my Slayer Exciter= 4.5 MHz.
Frequency of my LJL:
With the now deceased transistor (2N30550) about 700 KHz.
With a new 2N3055: about 2 MHz.... ???

These frequencies can be checked with a medium/short waves AM receiver.
You can perceive the "carrier" (absence of 'noise') and also perform some
kinda Morse  by hand hitting some wires.

The Slayer exciter can even be transformed into a small Theremin instrument.
You just have to move your hand  near the coil and you can hear some
modulated sounds in the AM receiver.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin)

Very Best,
Jean
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 22, 2012, 10:25:41 PM
  Agreed, Nerzh -- it's exciting that Lynx is willing to build and sell these (presume on ebay).
Get others researching this!

 You say 2 MHz on your LJL;  the cranberry-version LJL I'm studying has about 20-30 KHz (depending on # of LED bulbs etc)!  can't pick that up on my radio... ;)

Check out Lasersaber's latest -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPabWOqnvsc&feature=em-uploademail .  Cool!  doubt he'll make and sell these...  :)   Also, I wonder if he can really fly with one of these machines (doubtful IMO, but he is a clever guy).
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Magluvin on June 23, 2012, 01:40:47 AM
"I would like to dump the AC power-out into a resistance-load, warm water, and measure the temp-rise.  Simple calorimeter approach.  If this loading does not itself change the circuit's efficiency!"

You will have to find a resistance value that consumes the most energy and produces the most heat. There will most likely be a peak resistance value to be most eff in heating the water over a period of time.

Like if you used a say 1 ohm resistor, there might be more heat developed in the output coil, thus less in the resistor.  Or if the resistance were way too high, then very little current will be flowing thus not much heat anywhere.
;)

Just saying, there will be a perfect value for the resistor to "match" the output capability of the output coil.  Seek and yee shall find. ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 23, 2012, 03:13:49 AM
These AirCore coils will oscillate when the output is placed in H2O.  You can vary the distance of an aluminum rod and a zinc rod until you match the Hz that will match the load you are looking for.  Then measure the ml or moles of H2O disassociated into hydrogen and oxygen.  You could compare the power required to do this to the watts at input.  5-20 watts isn't much so you probably have to do this for a while. 
I ran mine for about two minutes and bubbles do form.  I could hear a slightly audible tone in the glass of water and the frequency was 6.87 khz.  The transistor started getting warm.  6.87 khz would be similar to about ten - twelve bulbs on the circuit.
I don't know if the power equivalent to disassociate water and emit light are comparable.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SeaMonkey on June 23, 2012, 05:43:08 AM
Quote from: NerzhDishual
Hi Lynxsteam & people,
...

I have tried to put a 1N4007 diode (your initial CCT) between the transistor base
and the transistor emitter. The amp consumption is divided by about 3 but
my 6 watts fluorescent tubes bright less.
...
Very Best,
Jean

You may want to try three or four diodes series connected across the base-emitter
leads.  The purpose of those diodes is to limit the amount of reverse bias which
is applied to the base-emitter junction by the feedback winding during the time
the transistor is being turned OFF.  A certain amount of reverse bias at that time
is desired since it will aid in turning the transitor off rapidly and completely.

However, if the reverse bias pulse is strong enough (More than about 7 Volts) to
take the base-emitter junction into breakdown then the transistor can do unpredictable
things and its power dissipation will increase.

Limiting the reverse bias feedback pulse to about 4 to 5 Volts will expedite
turn OFF for increased efficiency and prevent it from taking the base-emitter into breakdown.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 23, 2012, 07:05:38 AM
These AirCore coils will oscillate when the output is placed in H2O.  You can vary the distance of an aluminum rod and a zinc rod until you match the Hz that will match the load you are looking for.  Then measure the ml or moles of H2O disassociated into hydrogen and oxygen.  You could compare the power required to do this to the watts at input.  5-20 watts isn't much so you probably have to do this for a while. 
I ran mine for about two minutes and bubbles do form.  I could hear a slightly audible tone in the glass of water and the frequency was 6.87 khz.  The transistor started getting warm.  6.87 khz would be similar to about ten - twelve bulbs on the circuit.
I don't know if the power equivalent to disassociate water and emit light are comparable.

This is very interesting, Lynx...
But I have a question about Water electrolysis and heating with AC...

Let's start with 60 Hz 120 V from the mains, two electrodes in tap water.  How much electrolysis into H2 and O2 will there be?  how much heating?

Now I've done numerous experiments with "Davey sonic bells" just like this -- two bells, one connected to the hot line and one to return/ground.  I observe slow heating from room temp -- not many bubbles indicating electrolysis.  There are some small bubbles, but I think this is due to dissolved air coming out of the water... not sure.

Further, the heating agrees with what I expect for simple resistive heating of the water -- watts in, hot water as the result.Q (Joules) =  Cp * mass * (change in temperature)The specific heat (Cp) of water is 1 calorie/gram °C = 4.186 joule/gram °C.

Distilled water heats very slowly -- very high resistance.


Next let's go to higher Freq, say 20 KHz.  I haven't done the experiment with water; but I expect no significant electrolysis again.

I'm here to learn -- is this right,  no significant electrolysis  compared to resistive heating, with AC in tap water?

I'm particularly curious about using this method to measure output power in a blocking-oscillator circuit, with the output AC used to directly heat water... I think Lynx was suggesting something like this, with electrolysis...

Comments welcomed.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 23, 2012, 03:45:13 PM
If you use aluminum for one plate and galvanized steel for another (or other metal except al) it forms a diode in water.  By adding baking soda to the water the aluminum becomes an even better diode after an hour or so with AC.  I am not sure what you are trying to do.  Can't you just measure the AC amps to the bulbs?  Is it too imprecise with the high frequency?

LEDs don't really exhibit resistance, they have an I/V characteristic.  So you can't really calculate V2/R for power.  It just so happens that the voltage drop is about 3-5 volts so its perfect for reverse biasing the transistor.  Its also tough to calculate resistance for an incandescent bulb because resistance increases as the bulb gets hotter.

Are you trying to determine the efficiency of the DC converter?  Aren't we mainly concerned with power in/light energy out?  Are you dissatisfied with the light box measurement?

This evening I will do a video showing my garage lit with LEDs utilizing grid power and then with the same bulbs utilizing the LJL DC converter.  That's where "the rubber meets the road".

Also, not sure how many people are reading this stuff, but I have a question.  Would people be more interested in mounting the converter near the battery, and have a remote switch near a wall plate, or have the converter mounted with integral switch near the wall plate?  Would it be more convenient to have one large converter, or a couple small converters?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 23, 2012, 04:09:09 PM
  While I'm consistently seeking new and better ways to measure power output, I should note that my light-box has been checked with a number of lumens-rated bulbs, and it shows considerable consistency and reliability -- as demonstrated in the graph of the data I obtained with it, attached. 

  I do think it is important to use more than one method of measuring power output; lumens measurement can be an effective tool as we seek improvements.
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 24, 2012, 06:11:44 AM
Joule Seeker,

I agree it is important to find out how efficient this circuit is.  Verifying a couple different ways is smart.

Here is another way to measure.  It isn't quantitative, but rather it is the "qualitative" measure some of the forum members here have wondered about.  The one thing I could have done but didn't do would have been to install equivalent incandescent bulbs.  We pretty much know that the watts would have been about 140 and much of that power is creating heat. 

I was impressed not only with my device keeping pace with Detroit Edison but the quality of the light from these bulbs.  Its very pleasant, especially compared to the glare of CFLs.

Here's the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqJ3CVVEQc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqJ3CVVEQc)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 24, 2012, 07:53:49 AM
 Lynx:
   Those bulbs work very well.  Thanks for showing us your set up.

   I'm working on the solar Exciter, and getting it to light several gutted CFL bulbs, which has been coming along, slow but steady.
  Here are some photos, and a video that I made today.  I've already got the solar cells, and 12 battery ready. Kinda like Hitman's boxed set-up that was lighting 10 2 watt leds. But, I had a bunch of the dead CFLs waiting just for this, so I decide to use them, first.

    My latest video:
  Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55J7pqD7tk
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 24, 2012, 08:06:05 AM
  This is the link to the video (above), I don't know why it' not linking it like normal.
So, I hope that it works this time.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55J7pqD7tk
                                                                 
          NickZ
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 25, 2012, 12:54:28 AM
Nick,

Very cool setup!  Looks like a Tesla lab.  Why is that big chunk of aluminum so close to the experiment?  Seems like that would really suck the energy out of the coils.

A note on my testing in my latest Video.  I thought I would find out how much the power draw was going up due to the AC power wire run length in feet.  I was going to be very scientific and calculate by feet what the power effect was.  Its about a 90 foot loop counting both AC lines. 
But, the power draw was the same directly run off the LJL converter - 2.24 amps.  Earlier this week I had run 4 Utilitech 7.5 watt bulbs on 21 watts, now these 3 Utilitech and one Philips 3 watt bulb takes 26 watts.  The Philips bulbs are power hogs!  I sort of knew that, but I bought this cute little bulb because it looks good in the outside carriage lantern.

I get more light on less power draw by replacing the Philips bulb.  21 watts instead of 26 watts, and the transistor doesn't get warm, and the length of the AC run isn't that big a factor in a normal household situation.

Lots to learn and document in these experiments.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 25, 2012, 04:21:14 AM
  Glad you like my set up, the reason I go wireless is to see if I can light several bulbs on just mAs.  Slayer has shown that his Exciter circuit wired to a smaller LS type of E-core could light a gutted 2 or 3 watt led bulb on 28 mAs, using 12v, and only half that current when using 6 volts.  I'll bet that more bulbs can be strung in series there also.     Lasersaber has 10 bulbs running on 200 mAs. That's like 20 mA per bulb.

  It looks like the lower the voltage levels that are used,  the current draw also drops proportionally.  So, a 6 volt battery will draw half the current as the 12 volt one will.
But, the light intensity may not drop by half as much.

  The big aluminum block is there to add capacitance to the circuit, and will help to brighten the bulbs up.  The two small towels are working together with each other.
Each CFL bulb is different from the rest of them, and each has a different type  of light quality, and intensity.  Some may also be hogs, but they me costed me,  zilch.
 
   
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: SeaMonkey on June 25, 2012, 07:45:12 AM
Quote from: NickZ
...
 The two small towels are working together with each other.
...

I watched the video twice just to try and see those small
"towels."   ;)

RF induction and what it is able to do experimentally is
always a sight to behold.  CFLs are a good vehicle for
that sort of demonstration.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 25, 2012, 05:04:06 PM
  That's towers, like in mini towers,  not towels.  I saw the error but couldn't edit it.
  So, towels it is... 
                           
   
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 25, 2012, 07:46:57 PM
Today I added a 6th LED bulb (of the corn-cob type I've described earlier) and the Lumens/Watt went UP. 

Vid posted here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lUFPh4ttM&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7lUFPh4ttM&feature=youtu.be)

Text:

  Lynxsteam has previously noted in his air-core experiments (with the Lasersaber SJR 2.0 circuit) that when one adds an additional LED bulb (after the 2nd one), the DC input current drawn does not go up by much.   Here are some data taken at 11.0 V DC input (and I have added three ferrite rods near the central axis of the "cranberry" coil as previously described):

4 bulbs draws 342 mA (so 3.76 W) and produces approx 374 Lm, so 100 Lm/W

5 bulbs draws 344 mA (so 3.78 W) and produces approx 420 Lm, so 111 Lm/W

6 bulbs draws 353 mA (so 3.88 W) and produces approx 443 Lm, so 114 Lm/W,
this is the case shown in this vid.
114 Lm/W is well above the Lm/W I expect from these LED bulbs; so this result adds to my interest in this ongoing study.

When I hook up my DSO, I see a frequency (output) of approx 21 KHz, and the voltage across the bulbs (i.e., across the power-strip plug feeding the LED bulbs) is 460 Vrms -- which is pushing my  DSO I think.  This is tapping into the 75th winding of the primary; so I would expect around 130 V AC output just based on the ratio of secondary to primary windings... so I'm trying to understand the output voltage.  My little DMM set to 750 VAC registers "overload" when I try to read the output AC voltage with it.

Again, I thank Lynxsteam for excellent observations and ideas and Lasersaber for the basic circuit being scrutinized!
______________

If anyone can explain the observation of 460 Vrms on the output, and the overload on the little Cen-Tec multimeter, I would appreciate it!  An accurate measurement of the output voltage (and current) is one way to measure the output power, so I'd like to understand the output voltage!  has anyone else measured it?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 25, 2012, 08:57:34 PM
Joule Seeker,

Congratulations on 114 L/W!

If this were a standard transformer then you would expect AC voltage input to be transformed by the turns ratio.  12 volts ac in 120 volts ac out.  I do use this for calculating turns ratio, however since this is a blocking oscillator you will get high voltage spikes.  These spikes can be further accentuated by voltage amplification in the secondary.  In your "cranberry" model LJL 4.0 the voltage amplification is double.  That voltage gets converted to amperage in the load. 

And it just so happens the voltage drop across diodes (LEDs) is between 3-5 volts, perfect for reverse biasing a transistor which is basically the breakdown voltage for the base to collector.  The brighter we light the LEDs the more we reverse bias the transistor and the lower the frequency and higher the output (self regulating load).  So by increasing voltage at input you are increasing the bias voltage closer and closer to 5 volts.  Push the DC bias voltage beyond 5 volts and you will probably fry the transistor.

On my latest LJL 5.0 the voltage amplification in the secondary is even higher.  I have designed in self capacitance "ala Tesla" and now I am pushing the transistor and LEDs to their limit.  The transistor gets hot and so do the LED bases.

When you run on 11 volts you are probably avoiding this wasted heat energy.  We can de-tune the coil arrangement to run on 12 volts in that sweet spot you are finding.

I am just about done detailing the design, schematic and instructions.  I could wait for more testing or turn everyone loose replicating what I have so far.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 25, 2012, 09:01:35 PM
Thanks for the input, Lynxsteam -- makes sense.

Also, Slider writes by email, it may partly be a "Tesla tower phenomenon."  I would like to learn more about that!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 25, 2012, 09:33:08 PM
It is a Tesla tower we are talking about here in this thread.  It is a little different because we are confining the field instead of allowing the field to radiate as RF.  A typical Tesla Coil for making plasma and wireless lighting has a very small primary at one end and the voltage amplifies through self inductance up the coil to very high voltage and miniscule amperage.  What we want is about 120 volts and 60 ma per bulb for a 7.5 watt LED.  Your 353 ma is on target for 6 bulbs.  The secondary spikes may actually be 480 vac and the amps are only 9 ma.

Its similar to the way a Bedini SSG can charge a 12 volt battery with back emf spikes of 200 volts.  The battery clamps the voltage to 12 and the spikes get converted to amps at 12 volts across the plates.

This is part of the reason mixing LED bulbs doesn't work so well.  It is like trying to charge a 6 volt and 12 volt battery in parallel.  One is going to consume more power than the other. 

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 25, 2012, 10:05:51 PM
  Is that like the towel phenomenon.  Might be related?

   I also fried my share of transistors, as they will only take so much. To the trash pile the Tip31, the 2n3055, and over 20 of the 2n2222. I can't even replace them through the Shack here as they are out of stock.  This was being careful, but... my last 2n2222 when up in smoke last night. I'm having to use PNP3906 for now, backwards polarized, they work, but not as well.
  So, the transistor is of course the critical part of the Exciter circuit, which to my way of thinking are related like brother and sister,  to your LS type circuit, as they are all solid state Tesla stuff.
  Both Slider and myself and on this like a cat following a mouse.

  Hope that you guys reach a conclusion, as to what can be done. I've seen that 10 volts is much easier on the transistors, but, their base voltage may not be all there is to this. And each battery that I've used works differently, some produce more heat, and some transistors also heat up more than others. Balancing transistor heat, to maximum output is tricky, to say the least.

   I can't measure the pulsed output voltage correctly, but I'm getting a neon to light up brightly off the towers, (both sides of the neon, might be AC?) and my circuit will light all the leds and CFL bulbs that I place on it. But, the CFLs are sometimes hard to light, and are not 100% totally lit up.  Gutted CFLs are easier to light by "kick starting", using a 4700mf capacitor, which is what I'm working on now. 
  I'll buy some of the Led bulbs sometime soon like you all are using, but since I have several gutted CFLs I'm making use of them, for now. I've never really liked the light given off by the regular CFLs, but this is different somehow, and each bulb has a different quality to it, also.  Rather ghostly at times...  plus they will never burn out.

   Great work guys...

          Thanks again.
                                   NickZ
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 26, 2012, 01:19:30 AM
Here is an excerpt from wiki in regards to Tesla coils and the more recent "flyback" transformer. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil)

The Tesla coil is an early predecessor (along with the induction coil) of a more modern device called a flyback transformer, which provides the voltage needed to power the cathode ray tube used in some televisions and computer monitors. The disruptive discharge coil remains in common use as the ignition coil[48][49] or spark coil in the ignition system of an internal combustion engine. These two devices do not use resonance to accumulate energy, however, which is the distinguishing feature of a Tesla coil. They do use inductive "kick", the forced, abrupt decay of the magnetic field, such that a voltage is provided by the coil at its primary terminals that is much greater than the voltage that was applied to establish the magnetic field, and it is this higher voltage that is then multiplied by the transformer turns ratio. Thus, they do store energy, and a Tesla resonator stores energy.

We are kind of playing with a hybrid of the flyback circuit and some features of Tesla's work.  Resonance is not necessary because these are closely coupled coils. 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 26, 2012, 01:41:31 AM
  Resonance is necessary, for the optimum results to be achieved. We can still plug along without the use of resonance, but can 100 or even 1000 leds or more be lit on 12v, and hardly no amps. That's what we are trying  to find out. There may be more to this than just voltage and amps, and frequency.  WATTLESS Current, is what I'm looking for.
The devices like the Av plug can read this type of current, it may be just Radio Frequencies, but it may not be.
  Dr. Stiffler may have the answer by now, as I don't think that he stopped at just lighting a few leds with no battery, or any other power source. 

  All Tesla coils up to now had to be fed from a separate source, but that may soon change.
  Resonance is what makes up for all the draw that most components put on a system.
  It's also why I love your one transistor circuit. 
  Can it also be done without the transistor, and without a battery?  Yes???
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 26, 2012, 05:23:52 PM
Lynx noted:
Quote
since this is a blocking oscillator you will get high voltage spikes.  These spikes can be further accentuated by voltage amplification in the secondary.

This seems correct to me and is the reason why I think we have to be more sophisticated than simply measuring Vrms and Irms and multiplying these together in an attempt to get the OUTPUT power measurement.  These high-voltage spikes are not likely to be correctly handled in a multimeter trying to estimate Vrms, for example, AND I expect some of the time that the output voltage and current will be OUT OF PHASE further complicating the calculation.

There are two solutions to this that I can think of, which should allow for an accurate measurement of the OUTPUT power.  (PS -- input power is relatively easy to measure, since it is basically DC.)

1. Continue to use LED bulbs as currently designed.  Use a fast DSO scope to measure V(t) across the output in channel 1 and I(t) across a known carbon resistor in channel 2 -- and multiply these together in real time to get P(t) = V(t) x I(t).  Then integrate P(t) to get the total output energy over a time interval T.  (You can then divide E/T to get the average output power.)

2.  Use calorimetric methods as I've discussed previously; although this is more difficult with LED bulbs as currently used.  It may be POSSIBLE to run the entire circuit including LED bulbs in a large calorimeter and then over time, as the heat comes out of the LED bases, transistor, etc., one can get the integrated total output energy. 

Meanwhile, we have lots of light per watt!  and that in itself is an important goal.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 26, 2012, 09:31:23 PM
  Hmmm... over at the EF thread on Don Smith devices, I saw this today -- sure looks like a good thing to try with the LLL circuit (see attached).

  The idea is to use the current circuit to STEP V UP, then use a step down transformer on the output.  And see what happens!

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 27, 2012, 12:39:56 AM
  Here's the vid that goes with the air-core device above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOwsEKN4S8Q&feature=channel&list=UL

Note the primary coil, the secondary, and a tertiary coil for pick-up... interesting stuff. 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 27, 2012, 04:59:28 AM
  If we can run with incandescent bulbs on the output, or something that predominately puts out more heat than light, we can use the water-calorimetric method.  Let me describe a bit more fully:

Quote from: mr.clean;199120
Don Smith Device Project Part 31: 3 Watts In, 20 Watt Halogen Lit Bright - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-XzusSEDAA)

So just throw it in a glass of water? It does heat up MAJOR so ok, i'll try that, hey what is the heat formula? anyone know off hand?

  Chet has a good idea here.  If I may make a few suggestions...  I've done many of these water-heating studies (mostly when I was working with Davey-Sonic-Bell devices).

1.  The heat formula for water is:
Eoutput = Qheating = 4.186 J/g-degC * mass of water heated * (Tfinal - Tinitial)

2.  and for water vaporized, we have:
Qvaporization = 2260 J/g * mass of water vaporized.

To keep it simple, keep the water well below "steaming" temp so you don't have to worry (much) about vaporization.  So you just use equation 1.

3. Suggest you use distilled water.
  Tap water is much more conductive; it also can leave a residue upon evaporation.

4. Measure the temperature (Tfinal and Tinitial) in Centigrade with a reliable device, such as this:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/TM-902C-K-Type-Digital-Thermometer-Thermocouple-Probe-/170858632394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c7f7d4ca
 -- a Type-K digital thermometer over a measured time interval (several minutes at least).  Suggest using a styrofoam or other plastic container, thus insulated to slow down heat transfer to the environment.  And be sure to stir the water right after the run-time (e.g. with a plastic spoon), and let the temp-probe come to a stable temp (several seconds).

5.  If someone gets to the stage where he/she could replace the output-light-bulbs with a heating element ready to immerse in water, this would be better in the calorimeter -- all heat output (no light).  I have an extra heating-element (R = 54 ohms); would be glad to send this on to the willing experimenter.

6.  Example.  We wish the actual output energy by measuring the heating of water for the or heating element immersed in water, and then the average output power is the Energy/Time interval.  Say we use 100g (100ml) of distilled water in a styrofoam container (e.g. large cup) and the water heats up 5.4 degrees C in 4.0 minutes.  (For more accuracy, paint the container black on the inside to absorb the emitted light.)

 Then the output energy and power for this example are:
 
Eoutput = 4.186 J/g-degC * 100g * (5.4deg-C) = 2260 Joules,

and the average power output is:
Pout = Eoutput/Time-interval = 2260J/240seconds = 9.4 Watts.

Ah, that's so nice to have that number (for the actual device!).  We can do a bit better later; this is QUITE GOOD for now!!

The efficiency is Pout/Pin ..
.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 27, 2012, 02:37:29 PM
Below is a schematic of the LJL 5.0.  I have moved through many stages of development gaining brightness from the bulbs and reducing power with each step.  I will send this design off for testing this week, but wanted to get the design out there for you to replicate and independently test.
The proportions and turns ratio are important.  You can make a smaller version with 30 awg 5" long, bell wire primary, total turns secondary 1100, primary 110.

The advantages of this newest version are multiple bulbs up to 3 amps, high brightness, dimmability power saving mode, no ringing, can run continuously with correctly sized 12 v solar panel.

I will post a "how to" video soon.  The are some simple ways you can wind these coils very quickly without special tools.  Wiring them up is straight forward and fairly simple.



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 27, 2012, 02:44:53 PM
Larger version
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 28, 2012, 12:01:41 AM
Thanks for posting these schematics, Lynxsteam!

I also much enjoyed your latest vid...  I have a question, though -- how did you manage to light two bulbs with just a small 9V battery running your LJL?  They seem very bright for the current and voltage which a 9V battery can deliver (considering internal resistance) - any further explanation for how you did it?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 28, 2012, 12:36:33 AM
People make goofy Videos when they hit the 1000 subscribers mark, so I made a video celebrating a lot of my videos and tidbits of my life.  I called the lighting of two bulbs with a 9 volt a "parlor trick" because without explanation it is just a novelty.  Really no trick.  The amp draw is about 580 ma at 8.75 volts.  Why are the bulbs so bright?  Dunno!

I mis-spoke calling them 15 watt bulbs, they of course are together 15-16 watts at full brightness on grid.

I think too, this is proof that a larger coil has more capacitance, just like a larger battery has more ampacity.  When this Bad Boy fires it sends a lot of energy to the bulbs.  The only thing I don't like is this one rings a little.  It rings at the battery and the tube.  Not as bad as an E-Core, but its annoying.  Today I was running two bulbs and through an aluminum wire wrapped around a fluxed welding rod in some water and there is definitely a lot of bubbles and no heating.  I didn't want to try lighting the gas, because so far the day has been pretty nice! :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 28, 2012, 04:28:29 PM
Hey, I just wanted to make an observation about the wire guages you are using because I think this is VERY important in how these coils interact with each other. Just like length of coil, number of turns, etc...
14AWG conductor diameter in inches: 0.0641
20AWG conductor diamer in inches: 0.032
Notice anything?
So if we take that idea and apply it to a smaller size wize:
24AWG: 0.0201
30AWG: 0.01
Any thoughts?
PC
EDIT: Yes, I understand the smaller wire can't handle as many amps. :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 28, 2012, 05:46:31 PM
PhiChaser,

I know what you are getting at, that the diameters don't make sense.  Vinyl coated PVC insulated primary wire of 14 awg stranded copper wire is about 0.125" Diameter (depends on manufacturer).  20 awg magnet wire is 0.0319" diameter.  Its is difficult if not impractical to have the wires perfectly next to each other when winding.  If it were possible then for a nine inch length we would have 75 turns primary and 281 turns secondary (843 total).  Its better to shoot for 73-75 turns primary and 258 secondary (774 total).  This gives roughly the 10.6:1 turns ratio. 
So if changes in the size aircoil are made using different wire sizes, its best to calculate based on wire diameters.

My large aircore uses 18 awg secondary and 12 awg insulated stranded primary.  120:1200 turns.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 28, 2012, 07:39:28 PM
...

My large aircore uses 18 awg secondary and 12 awg insulated stranded primary.  120:1200 turns.

That is impressive, Lynx.

  As we have discussed, measuring output-power can be tricky from a device such as this, and a simple water calorimeter was suggested by Chet and me.

To follow up on this idea, I've done a short vid this morning -- which shows a very simple water calorimeter and how I tested that it can quite useful and reliable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ICpD37usIE&feature=youtu.be

One needs to be able to operate the device with the output power going into a simple resistance, and I think we're approaching this point.

The text:
Today I set up a simple water calorimeter, to measure output energy and power with decent accuracy.  I have other calorimeters, but this is to show how straightforward it is, and to allow the experimenter to get a handle on output power -- which can often be tricky with output that is far from DC or sinusoidal AC; for example, from a blocking oscillator or Don Smith-type device.   


   Water is weighed in grams with a scale that cost about $10 and placed in a styrofoam cup.  Or you could use a graduated cylinder, 1ml = 1gram for water. Temperature change (delta-T) is measured in Centigrade using a TK thermometer, that cost about $10 also.  For this check, I used a power supply to give me 14 V and measure the current; I could have used a battery at 12 V (for example) and an ammeter.

The power is dumped into an "immersion heater" (about $7) which is simply a resistive coil; this is stirred in the water to heat the volume of water.  At room temp, the resistance was 53 ohms.  Time is measured with a stop-watch on my wrist.  Easy.

Result:
Power-input = 14V @ 0.264A = 3.7 Watts input.
Energy output = Qheating = 4.19 J/g-degC (H2Omass) (delta-TempC) =
   4.19 x 316g x 0.9C = 1192J
This heating required 5min19s = 319 seconds, so the output power measured in the calorimeter is:
Poutput = Eoutput/Time = 1192J/319sec = 3.7Watts -- which agrees very well with the input power.

Thus, we have tested the simple water calorimeter and shown that it WORKS!  It is a valuable tool for measuring output energy and power.

In another test, I ran at 12V @226mA = 2.7W and the water heated from 21.2 to 21.6 Degrees-C in 210S.  So
Eout = 4.19 (316g) 0.4C = 531J, and the power-out is
Pout = 531J/210s = 2.5W, compared to the known 2.7W in. 
To get decent accuracy, one needs to run for a long enough time to heat the water by nearly 1deg-C or so.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 28, 2012, 08:11:52 PM
This is excellent!

My team had a similar problem to solve in testing large alternator output power.  We cross checked meter readings with temperature rise.  We used nine 1500 watt heating elements in various series and parallel arrangements and ran the alternator through its rpm range.  We couldn't find any better way to measure true power output, because we needed a load, and most loads will change resistance when heated so they are a moving target.

Any changes in resistance occurring due to heat are captured at the output with your technique.  We also recorded temperature rise in the alternator.

Now the only question is whether you can be sure running the blocking oscillator output through a resistive load is the same as what it would be through the LEDs.  The only way I might suggest is to find a resistive load that runs the circuit at the same frequency as the LED load.  LEDs give off light energy and heat, whereas heating elements give off primarily heat.  Seems like what you are testing is power output at that frequency into that specific load.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NerzhDishual on June 29, 2012, 01:48:29 AM
Hi Lynx Lampistes, Physics Profs, Joule Robbers, NRG Hunters, Witty Experimenters,
Skeptics, Trolls and my Sister in Law (for ex.)

Sorry for disturbing.

With my (near botched) Lynx Joule Lamp, I'm not (still?) able to run any of these led bulbs.
Just bl' blinkings observed. I'm not interested in these deadly CFLs (and vaccines, BTW)

I have made another primary coil (I mean: the one with less turns) with about twice more turns.
Now I'm drawing about 100 ma (under 12 volts). (VS about 400 ma with my previous primary coil).
I'm definitely more confident with my small fluorescents tubes.

I have noticed that the brightness of these tubes seems not depending upon their
"Watts" but upon their Lenghts!

4 Watts: length 136 mm
6 Watts: length 212 mm
8 Watts: length 288 mm
(Diameter 16 mm)
My 'secondary' coil length is about 230 mm.

A 8 watts bulb 'looks' more efficient than a 6 watts one.
These 4 watts tubes are definitely useless as they refuse to give obvious lights!

IMO, this fluorescent tube just act as a kinda antenna.
It also likes (= needs)  to be placed parallel to the coils.
BTW: I use only one wire.
You add another fluorescent tube. You do not not draw much amp.
It also seems that you gain some more luxs.
Now! using any 'light box' (= a kinda Faraday cage) could be not so evident. But might be done.

In the same vein, and In My Poor Bloody Froggy Opinion (IMYPOBLOFO), trying to measure
-if it is the case-  and -as far as I can catch it- any output of such a LJL device with calorimetry
seems not so appropriate.

Gwella gourhemennou a-berz Jean.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 29, 2012, 05:52:58 AM
PhiChaser,

I know what you are getting at, that the diameters don't make sense.  Vinyl coated PVC insulated primary wire of 14 awg stranded copper wire is about 0.125" Diameter (depends on manufacturer).  20 awg magnet wire is 0.0319" diameter.  Its is difficult if not impractical to have the wires perfectly next to each other when winding.  If it were possible then for a nine inch length we would have 75 turns primary and 281 turns secondary (843 total).  Its better to shoot for 73-75 turns primary and 258 secondary (774 total).  This gives roughly the 10.6:1 turns ratio. 
So if changes in the size aircoil are made using different wire sizes, its best to calculate based on wire diameters.

My large aircore uses 18 awg secondary and 12 awg insulated stranded primary.  120:1200 turns.
My point was that the actual wire diameter IS doubled, which is what you said there at the end; It DOES make sense. You should end up with similar ratios using 30AWG magnet wire and 24AWG WITH insulation (like category wire). A smaller version of your current build is what I'm thinking... Pipe size would have to be scaled down as well (IMO, maybe 3/4"pvc?) but I'm a noob at this so??
I totally understand that you can't get even wraps, it just seems like to me like it would scale down nicely... Maybe a 1.5v to 12v coil? That could be handy! Cat wire can be pretty unpredictable as far as insulation thickness goes (and how much tension you use winding with it heh heh).
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 29, 2012, 08:25:24 PM
That's interesting and quite by accident that the copper portion of the wire diameter is double. 

I am attaching a drawing that might help some of you convert your LJL to this newer version.  Hopefully you can unwind the secondary onto a spool, reconfigure and try this latest setup.  You don't need the PVC end caps, nor do you need the switches.  Basically its just the coil tube and wiring to the transistor and LED bulbs.  This circuit design will light LED bulbs very brightly, or you can dim them at 50% power.

Hopefully someone will try this on bamboo for a cool tropical look!  Sort of a Gilligan version.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: ehsanco1962 on June 29, 2012, 10:03:39 PM
Hi LYnxsteam

Thank you for shearing your interesting video and schematic  ,interesting setup you have on the final one the small
Version, the  large  version need expensive wire (12#AWG)but this one is cool  but I have a couple question :
First I couldn't find PVC with same diameter can I use a little bit larger diameter .
Second we don't use in Europe 120v so all the LEDs we have are 220v will these LEDs work with this circuit .

Thank you in advance

Ehsan



Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on June 30, 2012, 12:13:12 AM
Hi LYnxsteam

Thank you for shearing your interesting video and schematic  ,interesting setup you have on the final one the small
Version, the  large  version need expensive wire (12#AWG)but this one is cool  but I have a couple question :
First I couldn't find PVC with same diameter can I use a little bit larger diameter .
Second we don't use in Europe 120v so all the LEDs we have are 220v will these LEDs work with this circuit .

Thank you in advance

Ehsan


Ehsan -- the bulbs I'm using here with Lynxsteam's build are actually 220V LED bulbs!  and they work just fine, better than any 120V LED bulb I've tried in fact. 
The particular bulbs I'm using most -- not that you should necessarily use the same bulbs -- are these (shown below).

Also, "First I couldn't find PVC with same diameter can I use a little bit larger diameter ."  That should not make much difference IMHO.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: PhiChaser on June 30, 2012, 05:56:38 AM
That's interesting and quite by accident that the copper portion of the wire diameter is double. 

I am attaching a drawing that might help some of you convert your LJL to this newer version. 
@ LS: So did you already have a smaller version planned or is this a new build?
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 30, 2012, 01:21:29 PM
I have made three sizes of these.  Each diameter is double the next.  3/4" D, 1.5" D and 3" D.  Each has a length about double the other.  What you make will depend on how many bulbs you want to run, and what materials you may have handy.  They all work very well.  Larger LJL Aircores have more capacity and can handle more bulbs.
The medium sized LJL is a nice size, not too big, and can handle at least a room of light.  The larger version can handle several rooms, whereas the small version can handle 4-6 bulbs.

Here is Part 1 of the "How To" series on making these AirCores.  Part 2 will cover wiring the circuit and testing.

http://youtu.be/3C-WW9gd8SM (http://youtu.be/3C-WW9gd8SM)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: ehsanco1962 on June 30, 2012, 04:01:21 PM

Hi LYnxsyeam


Thank you for the response and the nice educational video I like these how to videos looking forward for part 2 neat winding ,does it matter if we use strand or sold insulated wire  for the primary ?


Ehsan
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: ehsanco1962 on June 30, 2012, 04:16:07 PM

Ehsan -- the bulbs I'm using here with Lynxsteam's build are actually 220V LED bulbs!  and they work just fine, better than any 120V LED bulb I've tried in fact. 
The particular bulbs I'm using most -- not that you should necessarily use the same bulbs -- are these (shown below).

Also, "First I couldn't find PVC with same diameter can I use a little bit larger diameter ."  That should not make much difference IMHO.


Hi JouleSeeker


Thank you,  its good for these coils to work on this wide of range of voltage 120-220v.


Ehsan
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on June 30, 2012, 05:53:16 PM
You can use solid wire for the primary as long as it is thickly insulated and achieves the turns ratio closely spaced.  You can try most anything and see how it works.  You can use bell wire for the secondary but you wont get as many turns in the same space, so you would need to adjust the primary turns.
We are trying to make this as small and powerful as we can.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on June 30, 2012, 07:27:31 PM
  Just wanted to thank Lynx for providing the smaller version. As it's what most of us low budget guys can build or replicate.  Making the circuit small but powerful is great.

  I wound a used E-core yesterday and am trying that core out today. But I'll be getting some more wire soon to wind one of your designs.

  I'm also interested in making the Joule Lamp, but one that will hold a CFL bulb on top, like the one that Lidmotor has shown on his video. As I have a bunch of used CFLs to work with.

  I'm still playing with the Solar Exciter circuit, and getting some garden light solar cells to work with the Exciter set up. It has been tricky, but I'm getting there.

  Thanks again, I really appreciate your taking the time and effort to share your ideas with all of us.
                     NickZ
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 02, 2012, 06:54:55 PM
   Another very instructive, step-by-step vid by Lynxsteam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWq5uDdiQzE&feature=channel&list=UL

Thanks for sharing this information.  You do very good work.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 03, 2012, 01:37:22 AM
NickZ,

If you want to light gutted CFLs you can. 

I have tried lighting unmodded CFLs and it works OK, but the internal circuit rings and they draw too much current.  LEDs are dimmable and CFLs aren't.  They are built for 50-60 hz and 120 vac, not our high frequency spikey voltage.  The CFL has a circuit that starts the bulbs at 240 v and then drops the voltage back to line voltage.  With our spikey voltage this circuit doesn't work properly and it never drops back down.  It keeps trying, but instead forces the LJL to put out max power. 

Look at the drawings I did, everything is the same except you need to halve the primary.  Do that by using two primary wires and wind the secondary til its covered.  Then join the primaries so they are parallel.  In essence you have one fat primary with half the turns.  This will simulate the 240 startup until the bulbs are heated up, then flip the switch to dim and they should run very efficiently.

For instance on the medium build LJL, you will have about 770 secondary turns, and 37-38 turns primary.  That will give you the underlying 240 volts.  When you switch to the dim setting the underlying voltage will be about 140 which will run the CFLs bright on very little watts.

Once you get the idea you can do the same with that small "mini" LJL.  Gut the CFLs and reattach the wires to the base minus the circuit.  Mark them as "modded".
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on July 03, 2012, 05:34:11 AM
  Lynx:
   Wow, thanks for all that info.  I really do appreciate your taking the time and effort to help out.
   The idea is to gut the CFLs, and avoid the higher startup voltages. I've already done that to several of them, but have some that are still whole, or ungutted. I've also been able light up a 15 watt round florescent bulb, ungutted. I can get several of the gutted CFLs to light on 12v, but not full on. So, I made a bigger tower yesterday, to see if I can improve the light output.  The new tower will brightly light a neon bulb, but I'm still having a hard time tuning it to light the CFLs.  Tubes bulbs seam easier to light than CFls.
 
   I spent the whole day yesterday working on winding the a new tower coil on a piece of 1.5 inch by 9 inch pvc pipe, winding the L3 coil (secondary) using the mag wire off of a refrigerator fan motor coil. Not an easy thing to do, all by hand. It took hours just to get the pretty red mag wire off of the refrigerator fan motor that I recycled as the coil wire to be wound on the pvc pipe. As I'm far from the nearest place to buy mag wire. It is mostly wound now, but I still need to finish the last inch or so, and I have enough wire to do it, but need to solder and add the last bit of wire on to the first part, still,  to finish the tower.  It took many many hours of work, and so far it does not work any better than my tiny coil I use on my previous Exciter circuit. I'll have to redo the whole Exciter circuit to match the new coil, that is what I've been doing today.
  I also wound a used E-core, but did not have any luck on that still, as something is still not right there, yet.

  Today I looked at your part 2 video, as well as the one with the bunny wabits. Wary Nice!
  Funny how the smaller 9 inch core you showed looks very much like what I just wound, except for the primary on the outside, which I can also be added on to it, later.
  Any ways, thanks again, for sharing... 
  I'll upload some pics and videos, once I have it all done and working. The idea is to make the Joule Lamp out of it, which will also be a Solar powered Exciter, as the Exciter circuits still have me captivated.
                                                       NickZ

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: triffid on July 03, 2012, 11:31:21 PM
test,just wanted a link to here and want to say hi to all the members in this thread.I just recently made a JT myself.Powering an LED but soon to build a bigger light.triffid
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 04, 2012, 04:07:06 AM
Welcome, Triffid.

Lynxsteam sent a copy of his latest build, featured in the most recent vids (see above) -- thanks, Lynxsteam! very glad to do testing.  First results (AIR core only, AS sent), lighting up SIX LED bulbs of the corn-cob variety, as before:

DIM setting on switch:
12V   .567A  6.8W    4110 Lux  493 Lum  73 Lm/W
11V   .484A  5.3W    2960 Lux  355 Lum  67 Lm/W
10V   .404A  4.0 W   1920 Lux  230 Lum  58 Lm/W  61.4 kHz  (I started taking freq's)

BRIGHT setting on switch (full secondary in use):
 12V   .896A  10.8W   7830 Lux  940 Lum  87 Lm/W  34.0 kHz
 11V   .750A  8.3W    6150 Lux  738 Lum  89 Lm/W  37.5 kHz
 10V   .622A  6.2 W   4540 Lux  545 Lum  88 Lm/W  41.2 kHz

Clearly the efficacy is better with the Bright setting -- and the bulbs are BRIGHT -- 940 Lumens at 12V and 10.8W.  This is pushing the bulbs a bit; spec'd at 1.5W each (9W total) for these particular bulbs.

Next, I'd like to add my ferrite rod(s) -- Lynx, how do I remove the bottom end cap -- is it a press fit or glued?  (It seems tight...)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on July 04, 2012, 09:24:56 PM
  Guys:
  I thought that you might like to see my version of the Joule Lamp.

  It is lighting a warm white 13 watt CFL bulb, wireless, and can also light Led bulbs, Neon bulbs, and florescent tubes. It can light several CFLs, even with their internal circuit intact. No need to tune anything, just press the on/off switch to turn it on.
  It will be a Solar Exciter circuit that will be connected on to tiny 12 volt solar panel, and 12v 4.5 ah battery. The lamp will also run off of my homemade batteries (carbon/aluminum cells). It is connected to a regular 9 volt battery in the video below.

  My camera battery is bad, and will only allow me to take a 30 second video, but that's better than no video at all, I suppose.
                       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuM3Jg89oc&feature=youtu.be

 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 05, 2012, 07:34:23 AM
Well done, Nick!  A lamp that uses ordinary bulbs yet runs efficiently off of 12V DC.

  Thanks again to Lynxsteam for sending his latest smaller version for testing using the light box.  I discussed some results earlier; this morning I inserted ferrite rods (1,2,3) and recorded results.  I also made a short vid.  Then 4th of July activities happened (fun with family!), hence a delay.

   Long story short, this latest version operates very much like the previous ("cranberry" version) and with three ferrite rods inserted, the efficacy rises to 113 lumens/watt -- about the same as the 114 Lm/W observed with the cranberry (larger) version.   Tomorrow I'll post the vid.   More compact and still very efficient! 

Congratulations again, Lynxsteam, for a fine device!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 05, 2012, 05:34:39 PM
Nick, great work and it looks nice!  Show off some more with a video of what you can do with the exciter.

Update on the LJL:
Now that I have designed this latest compact LJL 5.0 that brightly lights LEDs or can run at half power, I am having problems with the start switch.  The flip switch doesn't work for power on and off.  The solution is a slide switch.  It simulates touching the positive wire to the battery.  The dimmer works with a flip switch or a slide switch.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: jbignes5 on July 05, 2012, 07:17:17 PM
 Hello guys.


 I was invited here to ask about the mini version of this system. Can it be adopted to a matrix of led strings? I have gotten myself 2 full bags of 3.2 volt 24 ma 30000 mcd led's. I wanted to make a full lighting set for my scooter that includes everything like head lamp to turn signals. With my other projects going now this will fill the bill on the other side of my scooter.

 Since you guys have been working so hard on this end I was wondering what setup would allow me the most efficient driver for my lighting needs.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 05, 2012, 07:54:36 PM
Just uploaded a vid:

http://youtu.be/8aABHWxWnSQ (http://youtu.be/8aABHWxWnSQ)

Text:

Quote
Some testing of the latest build by Lynxsteam; air core then add three ferrite rods (20cm long X 9mm diam).  We see the current and lux from the light box drop, but find that the Lumens per watt increases with the insertion of the rods.  I get about 113 Lumens/watt max with this system so far.

How to build -- shown by Lyxnsteam here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWq5uDdiQzE&feature=channel&list=UL

Thanks for sharing this information, Lynxsteam!!  You do very good work.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 05, 2012, 08:29:16 PM
Here are data taken this morning using the latest 'blackberry' version, for comparison with the previous 'cranberry' version.

Blackberry
Air core:
11V   .738A  8.1W      728 Lum  90 Lm/W  38.1 kHz
12.8V   1.03A  13.2W  1130 Lum  86 Lm/W  33.3 kHz

3 Ferrite rods added:

 11V   .258A  2.8W      300 Lum  107 Lm/W  23.7 kHz
 12.8V   .299A  3.8W   432 Lum  114 Lm/W  17.9 kHz
__________________
Cranberry
Air core:
 11V   .772A  8.5W      718 Lum  84 Lm/W  38.6 kHz
 12.8V   .969A  12.4W  960 Lum  77 Lm/W  35.7 kHz
 
 3 Ferrite rods added:
 
 11V   .381A     4.2W     472 Lum  113 Lm/W  20.3 kHz
 12.8V   .495A  6.3W      700 Lum  111 Lm/W  17.7 kHz
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: triffid on July 05, 2012, 10:40:40 PM
Heres a neat trick!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXhZvyGtMrk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXhZvyGtMrk)




Also for cheap LEDs try www.ecrater.com.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 06, 2012, 02:11:30 AM
Joule Seeker,

Thank you for doing the testing.  While some of us are after new heights in lumens/watt, I am more interested in brightness using what I gather from the solar panel.  Considering I am using and converting energy that would heat a 2' x 3' rectangle of my shingles each day, I would rather get good brightness from my circuit.  I don't mean that to be a slight.  I am very excited that with this same circuit we can get some outstanding efficacy.  But I would have been disappointed if while attaining efficiency the light given off was paltry.

One last question.  How does the "Blackberry" performance compare to total lumens using grid power?  And lumens/watt using grid power?

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: jbignes5 on July 06, 2012, 01:47:10 PM
 So do we have the mini version of your air coils circuit? I need something to start me off here. Like I said I will only have about 24 or so leds running in various loops. The main loop will be 20. 10 for low beam and an additional 10 for high beam. Plus 2 2 led strings for turning signals. And maybe another string of 2-4 for a stop light.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 06, 2012, 04:58:43 PM
Jbignes5,

That is a different application which is why I haven't jumped on it.  If you are running different numbers of LEDs it might not work as well.  But if you parallel all LEDs it shouldn't be an issue.  Lets think, if you parallel all LEDs you need about 3.5-3.9 volts.  What voltage will you run?  Is it 12 volt?  You aren't running 120 volt bulbs like we are doing.
If this is 12 volt then you need a step down transformer.
If your primary is 90 turns and your secondary is 30 it should be fine.  The voltage spikes will be higher than 4 volts but will be absorbed by the LEDs as amps.
Look back in this thread and see the LJL Mini.  I would make something like that but use bell wire or CAT5 wire for the primary and secondary.  One layer of secondary, 30 turns, 3 layers of primary, 30 turns each.  You may also want to wind this on a Torroid or one of those snap together ferrite chokes.
Build the circuit as usual and tie the main power into your ignition switch "run" position.
Then feed the secondary output to all your light switches.  You may need to have at least a couple of LEDs running somewhere (tail-lights) all the time so the circuit is oscillating.

In modern cars the LEDs are configured in series so they run off the normal voltage.  I think they use 6 in a string for 12 volts.  Check the LED package.  Reds run on lower voltage than whites, yellows, blues....
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 06, 2012, 06:36:56 PM
Joule Seeker,

Thank you for doing the testing.  While some of us are after new heights in lumens/watt, I am more interested in brightness using what I gather from the solar panel.  Considering I am using and converting energy that would heat a 2' x 3' rectangle of my shingles each day, I would rather get good brightness from my circuit.  I don't mean that to be a slight.  I am very excited that with this same circuit we can get some outstanding efficacy.  But I would have been disappointed if while attaining efficiency the light given off was paltry.
One last question.  How does the "Blackberry" performance compare to total lumens using grid power?  And lumens/watt using grid power?


The light emitted is substantial, as we see by comparing the performance using grid power.
Using the grid -mains - at 120 VAC, with the same 6 corn-cob LED bulbs in the same light-box, I measure:

120VAC  3.5 W  407 lumens   116 Lm/W -- which is essentially the same Lm/W as using the LJL (both cranberry and blackberry versions reach 114 Lm/W) -- using the ferrite rods.  This suggests to me that the device is probably not OU; since the Lm/W is essentially the same with the LJL or with the grid.

 Without the ferrite rods, the Lm/W goes down, but the total lumens goes way up:
Blackberry  gives 1130 Lumens @ 12.8 V (air core), 13.2 W,  86 Lm/W. 
And at 11V,
the LJL blackberry  gives 728 Lumens @ 11 V (air core), 8.1 W,  90 Lm/W. 
Lots of Lumens, compared with the 407 lumens from the mains!

Thus, with the LJL, one can easily get VERY BRIGHT light given off.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 06, 2012, 07:00:21 PM
Thank you for posting this comparison.  The fact that we can run as bright as using grid power has been my quest.  That's what I was hoping for.

I didn't endeavor into this project to conquer "Over Unity".  While Joule Thief type circuits seem amazing, they are pretty simple conversions circuits.  However, this forum also goes by the name "Free Energy" and that is what we have when we take solar power and light a garage, outdoor lights, or the house.  You can use solar through a grid tie inverter, into a battery and through an inverter, or direct to 12 volt appliances.  What is special about these circuits is they are perfect for lighting and use less power than standard inverters and can be made in the garage workshop.

Getting the simple dimmer circuit developed was a bonus.  Not having to resort to capacitors, diodes, potentiometers and resistors is nice.

Next up for me is a Morph between a Bedini like motor and a Joule Thief with no solid state components.  It should provide 60 hz AC.  Give me a week.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on July 06, 2012, 09:00:34 PM
  Steven and All:
  Those are very encouraging numbers there.  I'm hoping to be able to reach them myself sometime. I was also wondering the same thing as Lynx was concerned about, as to how much brightness was obtained comparatively, but had no idea that it would be as high as the 110v grid connections, but at much lower current usage levels. 
Great results guys, especially when using the smaller and more affordable "Blackberry Version".

  Overunity does not exist, and is a misconception, and a misnomer.
You are already there, when connecting to solar panels. Free is free, even if it costs a bit to initially set it up.
Maybe the 6 to 10 led bulbs can be lit from an affordable 10 or 20 watt solar panel set up. Which are not that expensive to buy now.  2  10 watt panels, costs only $60 now, for a total of 20 watts.  So, that's not too bad... especially when using the $2  104 lumen led bulbs. 5 bulbs for $10 = 500+ lumens. Total cost less than $100.
 
  I now keep the joule lamp on all night long lighting a single CFL, I've used two AAs, and after two nights they are still at 1.5 volts. Wow!

  BTW:  the link to the cheap $1.99 2 watt Led bulbs listed on E-bay (about 104 lumens each), that I had mentioned previously are what Hitman uses in his videos. So, they do work well even off of his 6  small 3 volt garden light solar cells, charging a 6 volt battery. I've been working on replicating his set up, also, but it's been overcast the last several days here, and so my 6 tiny garden light solar cells don't add up to much current, when trying to charge a 12 volt battery.

  Also, just letting you know that the CFLs, can be dimmed when they are gutted, and the warm white CFLs give off a light that is very similar to regular incandescent bulbs, which are still my favorites.  I'm still using CFLs, as they are free to reuse when they die, an early death, as many of them do. So, no need to throw them out, and they will never burn out when they are used as in my "Mango Version" of the Joule Lamp.

  Thanks for all you've done, it has not gone unnoticed.
                                                                                  Nick

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 06, 2012, 09:14:59 PM
Thanks Lynxsteam and Nick; looking forward to further working with you.

Quote
"Next up for me is a Morph between a Bedini like motor and a Joule Thief with no solid state components.  It should provide 60 hz AC.  Give me a week.
Can you make the frequency "tunable"?  I'd like that!
Anyway, sounds like a great project.  Pls keep us updated on your progress.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: cyber19 on July 06, 2012, 11:15:34 PM
 
  I now keep the joule lamp on all night long lighting a single CFL, I've used two AAs, and after two nights they are still at 1.5 volts. Wow!


I missed this setup can you give details or post number. I am guessing the 2 AA are in series.

I am looking to do the same with a CFL plus mod an 11 LED camping lamp that uses 3 AAs in series. I was hoping to use the 3 AAs in parallel for extended run time.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 07, 2012, 02:26:55 AM
Hi Joule Seeker,

The device I am making will mount to a wall, much like the Joule Lamp.  It will be powered by 12 vdc.  It will have a small wheel, that when you spin the lights will come on.  Stop the wheel, lights off.  I don't think it will adjust to load.  It will back charge if there is no load.  My guess is it will be very efficient based on my work with the SSG Bedini motor (battery charger).

I imagine with some tinkering we can get different frequencies.  What frequency do you want?  Generally the smaller diameter the higher the frequency, or the higher the voltage the higher the frequency.  The idea is to avoid the heat energy lost at the transistor.  I know many people say theirs run stone cold, but when the lights are bright the transistors usually get warm or even hot (heat sink).

Another advantage is we can pull more power off this device because we aren't limited by the transistor in reverse bias mode.  The limit will be the ampacity of the primary.  I am shooting for 60 watts at 120 volts ac.  That will be 5 amps on primary and 0.5 amp on secondary.

I'll hold off on more details in this thread until I make the thing and it works.  Then I will probably start a new thread.

Yes this is fun stuff.  The power is out here so its nice to have the efficient lighting. :)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: jbignes5 on July 07, 2012, 05:00:16 AM
Jbignes5,

That is a different application which is why I haven't jumped on it.  If you are running different numbers of LEDs it might not work as well.  But if you parallel all LEDs it shouldn't be an issue.  Lets think, if you parallel all LEDs you need about 3.5-3.9 volts.  What voltage will you run?  Is it 12 volt?  You aren't running 120 volt bulbs like we are doing.
If this is 12 volt then you need a step down transformer.
If your primary is 90 turns and your secondary is 30 it should be fine.  The voltage spikes will be higher than 4 volts but will be absorbed by the LEDs as amps.
Look back in this thread and see the LJL Mini.  I would make something like that but use bell wire or CAT5 wire for the primary and secondary.  One layer of secondary, 30 turns, 3 layers of primary, 30 turns each.  You may also want to wind this on a Torroid or one of those snap together ferrite chokes.
Build the circuit as usual and tie the main power into your ignition switch "run" position.
Then feed the secondary output to all your light switches.  You may need to have at least a couple of LEDs running somewhere (tail-lights) all the time so the circuit is oscillating.

In modern cars the LEDs are configured in series so they run off the normal voltage.  I think they use 6 in a string for 12 volts.  Check the LED package.  Reds run on lower voltage than whites, yellows, blues....


 No it's a far cry from your setup. But I was thinking it should be able to run off a small rechargable pack. Most likely 6 volts or round about there. It would be nice to get a few days of charge out of a pack under heavy use.


 The power pack for my scooter is 24 volts. But I didn't want to take the chance and tie it into the lighting because I would like them to be separate systems for now.


 I was thinking of running the lights in 2 led strings, one for low beam and another added for high beam. The stop and turn signals I figure should be 2 for each turn signal so 4 for each side. The stop light I haven't figured out yet. Prolly 4 or 5 there.  They are 3.2v 24ma 30000mcd whites. Like I said I got a bunch of them. Maybe if I put them in 4 series all paralleled it would work out. Yeah that will work. So the leds will need 13 or so volts for the series of 4. Not all of them will be running at the same time. Would that be a problem with your system?


 So would a boost from 6v-12v work? or is it 1/3 or 4v work for the battery?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 07, 2012, 12:45:06 PM
Jbignes5,

I had two scooters, one was a Vespa 90, the other a 1960 Vespa GS.  I loved both.  I totally decked out the GS with every chrome accessory known to mankind.  It was white with red stripes.  Those were fun times.  I managed a college coffeehouse in Calif before it was mainstream.

Attached is a schematic of what I would do.  Study up on various ways to run tail / turn signals.  Often they are the same lights and they are just interrupted by a flasher.  Your LEDs (2 in series) should run fine on 5.8-6.5 volts which is a typical range for a healthy 6 volt battery.  You could add a small 6 volt solar cell somewhere to keep the 6 volt topped up.  Since your voltage is so close to the what your two LEDs need you don't need a series resistor.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: jbignes5 on July 07, 2012, 03:09:48 PM
 Yeah so how can I fit your system into that? I was thinking of using the leds in groups of 4's to lower the current draw via voltage doubling before the leds system. The groups of 4 work well. I'll see if I can draw it up as to the connections of the various lights. I could even get away with 3 volt supply then converting it up to 12 volts via the air transformer you have devised. I'll draw up the connections to let you see the load and how it should be connected.

 My scooter is an electric 500 watt and is pretty basic of a setup. Future plans include bigger seat and shocks of course. But it does well for a cheaper scooter. The power pack is one I devised of parallel 24 volt 12 ah batts.

 I am working on a new system to power it which means I must get rid of the controller and install a new one of my own design. The 500 watt motor will be redesigned to take advantage of some Tesla features in a new type of exciter/generator/motor. I'm collecting the parts as we speak. The only thing I have left to do is the rotor and housing. I have the field core, magnets(generator for the field exciter) and two different motors. One is the 500 watt dc and another is an ac induction motor. I might even wind my own motor because Tesla was soo specific to the design of the prime mover that it might be worth it to develop and use this design.

 But for the meantime I am gonna need a power supply for the lights and maybe even a small information panel to tell things like speed and battery levels.

 Thanks for the time you are allowing me to distract you from your projects. I really would appreciate the help in designing this system.

 Thanks,
 John Bigness

P.S.
 So it would be 3.2 volts per led X 4 = 12.8 volts per string of 4
 max of 6 strings but not all of them will be on at one time. Max strings active could only be 5 since I'm not including a hazard feature on this version. 2 strings min I'm guessing.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: sparks on July 08, 2012, 09:16:05 PM
 
   Sorry for the intrusion but it is weird I was thinking about producing a Tesla coil/cap and putting it on a moped I adapted for electric drive.  The bike as it is works on 24vdc.  I control the bike with a variable field flux drive.  You open this baby up at around 20mph and the bike takes off like a rocket till it becomes a little hairy.  Mopeds don't like going over 30mph.  The coil cap is light compared to the batteries but the voltage is really hairy.  How the heck can I step this down to 24 v while still maintaining control of the discharge.  Vacuum tubes capable of 10,000 volt tube bias and grid isolation are hard to come by if at all.  Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 12, 2012, 04:28:58 AM
I have been playing with the Bedini SSG again.  I tried making a square wave output using N - S magnets, but failed.  It can be done with more complication.  I tried to use brushes alternating the field but the drag from the brushes wouldn't allow spinup without a lot of power being used.
So back to the classic design with a few mods.  I added an isolated secondary to see if I could backcharge.  It works, but I may have it out of phase. 

If there is a way to have input equal output it seems to me the energy has to enter the system from somewhere.  It can be a seemingly passive entrance of energy from magnets passing by coils, or a siphon of energy from around us.  It is good fun and good exercise for my curiosity.

This topic doesn't belong here.  I should put further information in the right thread.

Here's the video
http://youtu.be/fPAY7eRovwo (http://youtu.be/fPAY7eRovwo)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: JouleSeeker on July 12, 2012, 07:01:35 AM
  I liked your vid, Lynxsteam -- very nice, as usual! 

  You note at the end that the LED bulb draws half the power, compared to the LJL (if I understood properly).  Any explanation?

   Also, what kind of diodes did you use in the FWBRectifier?
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 12, 2012, 04:30:08 PM
Joule Seeker,

First - that bulb is a 3w Phillips LED.  For some reason it pulls a lot of power off the grid and off my LJL, so I don't typically use it for analysis.  It would normally run at 1.2 amps and 12 volts.  But on this Bedini motor it pulls about 600 ma.  I think this is because it is half bright.

The Bedini motor or oscillator is not a great way to run the LEDs.  The frequency is slow and the pulses are choppy instead of the nice smooth sine wave from the grid or the fast chopped output off the LJL.  But I am just starting to explore.  A smoothing capacitor would help.

Those diodes are 1000V, 1 amp IN4007

I changed today to a smaller power coil and rpm is much higher, amp draw lower.  If I am going to generate voltage above battery the rpm will need to be high. 

Playing with the trigger to maximize transistor off time and maximize induction time is the key to self running.  I doubt I will do it, but it is fun to try.  And it is fun to watch that wheel spin so fast on such little power.  The video was just a montage of things I have tried so far.  YouTube should be entertaining.
:)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 18, 2012, 12:25:09 AM
I found something interesting.  Playing with the larger aircore LJL I hooked up a 120 v LED bulb with no transistor.  No collector at , no base connection.  The bulb lights at .3 watt or .7 watt depending on the dim switch setting.  I will post a video later.  Off to go water skiing.  Its hot!

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2012, 12:35:52 AM
  I've also been getting my Joule Lamp to light with no connection the the pnp3906 transistor base. The transistor still gets hot at 12 volts though, and is what I'm going to try different transistors to see if I can tame the heat issue. RS has no 2n3055 in stock here, or the TIP31 so I'm going to go through my junk parts to see what I've got.

  My last video:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnySZEno9W8&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Magluvin on July 18, 2012, 12:44:01 AM
I found something interesting.  Playing with the larger aircore LJL I hooked up a 120 v LED bulb with no transistor.  No collector at , no base connection.  The bulb lights at .3 watt or .7 watt depending on the dim switch setting.  I will post a video later.  Off to go water skiing.  Its hot!

HOW CAN YOU GO WATER SKIING NOW!!!   LOL  just kidding  ;]

That is interesting.

Has anyone opened one of these led bulbs yet to see what the driver consists of?  I havnt gotten down to getting one yet.

Does the bulb have a dimming switch?  I just dont see one in the circuit you show.


And is that correct? A 12v batt as input? Or 120v ac?   I could see that if it were ac input that the open windings would act like a capacitor and pass current to light the bulb.

But if it is dc 12v and the coils are truly open ended and not conductive contact, then I would want to see the circuit in the led bulb for answers. ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 18, 2012, 05:18:04 AM
I found a slight short between the secondary and the primary.  It is  a 9 Ohm short.  When the circuit is truly open as drawn it doesn't work.  Its starting to look like a tank circuit, with LCR.  When I put a resistor between the normal base tie and collector tie the circuit oscillates.  Or if I just alligator clip across it works.  This 3 watt bulb was running nicely on .7 watts!  This same bulb draws 1.2 amps on the mains.
I didn't draw in the dimmer switch for simplicity.  I simply toggle between 2 or 3 secondary coils (3 for high).

Here's the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSICg7KHmBI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSICg7KHmBI)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Magluvin on July 18, 2012, 06:01:07 AM
Hmm, have you tried the battery directly to the bulb?

Yeah sorry bout the short. It just had to be.

Mags
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 18, 2012, 06:16:08 AM
Yes, directly connected to 12 volts the bulb blinks dimly.  This is probably what starts the oscillation in the aircore transformer.  The pulsing gets magnified in the transformer to higher voltage and lower amps.  This is just one of those things you stumble onto.  May not be very useful considering a 2N3055 is about $2. 
These things spark ideas in other people who then go and build on an idea.
I am still impressed that the amp draw is so slight compared to this same bulb drawing high amps on the normal Joule Ringer type circuit.  I may get a couple more of these bulbs and see what kind of output vs input is possible on a simple 10:1 aircore winding.  Hey, at least it doesn't ring and buzz!

Nick,

If you are driving CFL tubes with the reverse bias circuit (ala super joule ringer) there is no protection for over driving the transistor.  You may be better off using a more standard approach with a resistor capacitor from the positive rail to the base, and a protection diode from negative rail to base (base emitter).  This will be more of a standard Joule Thief with the flyback coming off the collector.  If you reverse bias a npn transistor much over 4 volts it will over heat and probably burn up.  When driving LED bulbs with this circuit the voltage drop is right at 3.5-3.9 volts.  When driivng CFL tubes the voltage drop varies with voltage input. 
I think you would be very happy with a circuit suitable for CFL tubes.
Or you could modify your design to prevent the really high voltage spikes.  I was able to use the reverse bias circuit because I covered up more of the secondary with a 20:1 ratio in the original LJL posted in this thread.  OUBrad replicated this very well and showed high brightness and how many turns to use.  But to use a Tesla type exciter with its very high voltage spikes is asking for trouble with the reverse bias circuit.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2012, 06:44:48 PM
    @ LynxSteam:
    I just watched your earlier videos on building and lighting the Joule Lamp with the gutted CFL on 12v 100- 200 mA, instead of using the 120v led bulbs, as in your later videos. As I had not seen them before, it was very informative, especially showing how the 2n3055 will take the 12v direct even without using a diode or resistor. That is just what I needed to see.
  My Joule Lamp is a bit different, in that it is a wireless Slayer type Exciter circuit,  that uses no direct connection to the Cfl bulb. The idea was to see how many CFLs it would light. But, I found that with each added bulb the Exciters output was shared between them, and so the light intensity was not really increased, as I was hoping.
 
  When watching your video today, I saw that you were lighting two CFLs, at around 200 mA, so considering that you are lighting two bulbs that total about 23 watts (at normal input), I was fairly impressed with only needing about 200 mA or so from a 12v source to get that intensity of useable light. Even though my circuit uses much less input than that. Your comments today which you just made, give me even more hope that an even lower consumption rate can be achieved without even needing the transistor.

  Radio Shack here does not have the 2n3055 in stock, so I'm limited to using what I can scrounge up. But, I'll see what I can find to replace the smaller type transistors, so I can use the 12v battery, or Ac to Dc wall adaptors, instead of being limited to 4 to 10 volt batteries, and their correspondingly lower light intensity from the CFL type bulbs. Which is probably only 1/4 of the CFLs normal brightness.
I was trying to use the smaller transistors, to try to obtain a smaller mA draw, but I see that it is not possible with my circuit, at least not yet.
 A cell phone charger with 6.4v, and 350 output is what is working best for me so far with my current setting, and which produces no heat. It is running my lamp all night long, but only as a nightlight. Still very nice to have even at that lower but still useful brightness.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 19, 2012, 03:47:21 AM
Nick,

You can parallel your transistors to spread the load between them.  Each transistor will be wired like twins.  Then run a 1 ohm resistor from base to base to make sure each transistor gets an equal voltage/amperage signal.

I am doing this with my large aircore and it works very well.  The transistors run cold.

By the way.... what qualifies as overunity when it comes to power in and light energy out with these devices?  This large aircore pulls very little power and yet the LED bulbs are like the sun - you can't look at them when on.  On the low setting the amp draw is .654 for two bulbs and they are intensely bright.  That's 4.25 watts each.  (These bulbs would run on 8 watts off mains power.)  Makes me think that scaling this concept up could do some startling things.

I also ran an experiment lighting the 120 vac bulbs with 2.7 vdc (2 AA batteries).  Lights brightly.  Proof that the high voltage spikes at high frequency are there as long as the transistor fires.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on July 19, 2012, 05:47:22 AM
    LynxSteam:
   That all sounds great. The scaling of your coil's output over several additional bulbs may really pay off. 
The180mA you were consuming when lighting a single CFL when using 12v, and only 20 to 28mA higher when using two CFl  bulbs, would indicate that each additional bulb is using very little additional current. Worth looking into further. Dollar store sells CFLs at $2 each, or 5 for $10, instead on only ONE equivalent Lumens output Led bulb for the same price.

  Funny thing on my set up, when trying to read the voltage at the transistor the most it shows is about 20v output, when using 5 volt input, yet the neon bulb is lighting all over the place. So, I know there's some higher voltage spikes happening, even though I can't read them on my volt meter.  It's Ac, as both sides of the neon are lighting fairly bright.
 
 Where or how do you connect your meter to read the current been used by the device?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 19, 2012, 02:02:34 PM
Nick,

I use an amp meter between the battery and positive lead to the circuit.  You can also put a volt meter across the battery terminals.  These two readings multiplied give watts input.  It is very difficult to accurately measure output from a blocking oscillator.  That's why experimenters measure light output or the work done on output and then guess at volts x amps.  This guessing is what gives rise to theories about over unity, radiant energy, aether......

If you measure at the transistor you will see all sorts of readings.  The meter is trying to get a reading on a moving target.  It may average what is happening.  The one consistent reading I see is the DC bias voltage between base and emitter.  Its usually about 2.5-3.9 vdc for LED bulbs.  That makes sense because that is the voltage drop for LEDs.

You are doing what everyone else does.  If the Neon lights you know rms is at least 50-60 volts.

My experience with exciters was that the circuit would use the most power when it wasn't doing any apparent work.  Then adding florescent tubes, power would stabilize , then drop slightly, drop more and then the tubes would get dimmer as more were added.  There is an optimal power draw off an exciter.

I don't like the exciter circuit except for novelty and fun.  To practically light a room its too finnicky, bulbs are dim, positioning is sensitive, and transistors run hot because of really high frequency.  I also worry about that much rf.  I have been burned by the output off one wire and don't know what prolonged exposure might do.  The radar range (microwave oven) was discovered by radar operators who heated their lunches on the transmitter control circuits.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on July 19, 2012, 07:09:50 PM
  LynxSteam:
  Thanks for the info.  The difference is that an Exciter circuit is an open circuit device, beside what you've mentioned, is the possibility of getting it to work on very little current. Dr. Stiffler has gotten them to draw practically nothing, but they are not as practical to operate as closed systems, for the reasons you've already mentioned. Once their spacial coherance resonant point is reached, they can out do most any other types of oscillators/coil device. But that is not an easy thing to achieve without thousands of dollar in test equipment. If done properly adding more bulbs means higher output, not lower shared output. But, there is a couple of  tricks involved in SERIES connected Leds.
 There is not much magic involved in connecting a regular transformer backwards, or winding an E-core,  to connect a battery or power supply to light bulbs, as efficient as they might be. As a closed system is limited, unless using solar, but still the solar system's batteries are the limiting factor. Once China catches on, we'll probably be buying them for a few bucks, or even cheaper than we can build them ourselves. Such as their Solar 100 Led Christmas lights strings for $10, plus shipping.
I do like the idea of not depending on transistors, as they are the bottle-neck due to the heat issue, in trying to obtain greater output, and adding more components only causes  more resistance. Tesla did not use them, to obtain his results.
  All in all your system is the most practical to use for now.

  NickZ
 
 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on July 25, 2012, 06:34:37 PM
Nick,

In another thread you asked if a primary/secondary coil could light simple LED strings with no transistor.  Probably not without something to setup the oscillation.  That particular Phillips 3 w 120 volt bulb I used evidently has some kind of circuit that includes a transistor.  Tesla was able to oscillate his coils without the benefit of solid state transistors, but I can think of no simpler way than to use a single transistor and the Joule Lamp circuit or Joule Ringer to oscillate.  Something has to switch the primary on and off rapidly.  A simple LED wont.
Tesla coils and SEC exciters are good for really high frequency, high voltage, wireless transmission, but not so good for amperage.  If you are trying to light gutted CFL bulbs, OUBrads earlier in this thread did a really good video replication of the small Joule Lamp showing how to place the primary along the secondary and light CFLs.

Keep asking questions and keep experimenting!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: TinselKoala on July 25, 2012, 07:52:45 PM
You don't need thousands of dollars worth of test equipment. You need a simple analog oscilloscope, 20 or 40 MHz bandwidth, that you can get used for 100-150 dollars, and you need a signal generator/frequency counter, that you can buy brand new, modern digital tech, for about 200, or get used analog for 50, or even build yourself. These two instruments are absolutely vital and form the basis for any electronic experimentation involving oscillators, resonance, or measurements of power in circuits.

The oscilloscope is truly the King of test equipment. Digital, high-bandwidth scopes are nice... but unnecessary for the kind of work that we do  here. Do yourself a giant favor: spend 150 dollars on a good used analog scope and a couple of probes, and spend some time learning just what the scope can do. You will not regret it.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Oscilloscopes-/104247/i.html?Channels=2&Bandwidth=Less%2520than%252060MHz&LH_ItemCondition=3000&Type=Analog&_pppn=r1&_dmpt=BI_Oscilloscopes&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo&_udhi=200
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on August 19, 2012, 08:06:29 AM
   LynxSteam and All:
   I'm still working on the Exciter Joule lamps. These circuits still have me captivated.
   Here is a video that I just made tonight showing a one inch Exciter coil circuit, using a ferrite core, with a comparable output to much bigger Exciters L3 coils.
  Bigger is better, but smaller is better yet, as it's much easier to wind, and costs almost nothing.

   Video:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GUS_P5aejI&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 19, 2012, 08:29:11 AM
Nick::

I really like those smaller coils.  Great video.

Bill
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on August 26, 2012, 01:52:54 AM
  I just bought a new 24watt CFL bulb for about $3.50, which is equivalent of a 100 watt incandescent bulb. It works great on my Exciter Joule Lamp and puts out more light than  the 13 watt ones I been using. The input power draw does go up a bit, and the transistor also gets hotter when using it, but other than that, it works fine. I hope to find an even bigger bulb to try, as soon as I can find them.
  Soon there will be a 100 watt led bulb out on the market, here is the link to that:
http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-first-100-watt-equivalent-led-replacement-bulb/18659/ (http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-first-100-watt-equivalent-led-replacement-bulb/18659/)

  Here's a picture of the 24watt CFL, it is probably 10 times cheaper than the 100 led bulb above.
   
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on September 25, 2012, 06:38:05 AM
   I've really really miss this thread, as it has gone dormant.  I'm still working on my Solar Exciter Joule Lamp circuits, now lighting several 65 watt Cfl bulbs. I'll upload some pictures soon.
  But, I came across these Led bulbs today at Ebay, at only $1.42 each, 262 Leds in them, and I thought,  what a deal. They produce 650 lumens, so I think that these are the best bang for the buck, that I've seen yet.
  Check them out:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E14-E27-G4-13W-263-LED-Warm-White-Cold-White-110V-220V-12V-Light-Bulb-Lamp-/110915987877?_trksid=p4340.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D7%26meid%3D2285308848695520876%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1004%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D300722284830%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/E14-E27-G4-13W-263-LED-Warm-White-Cold-White-110V-220V-12V-Light-Bulb-Lamp-/110915987877?_trksid=p4340.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D7%26meid%3D2285308848695520876%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1004%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D300722284830%26)
 
  Edit.
  It seams to be a price error, as they are really about $10 each, so not a great deal as I had thought. Anyways...

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 25, 2012, 07:23:51 AM
Nick:

Still not a bad deal at $10 as far as I can see.  650 lumens is pretty good.  I have a 700 lumen led new tech. type bulb that cost like $30 us.  I am almost afraid to play with it as it is very bright on mains juice.

Bill
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on September 25, 2012, 08:06:48 AM
  I think that having an led bulb that can replace the amount of light brightness or lumen that we are used to having, but that uses much less current is still worth going for.  It's just that most led lights really don't do the job. Unless like to mentioned you pay $30 for them.
I'm hoping that within another year or so led lighting will be much more affordable. So far though, the Cfls are much cheaper for the same amount of light they provide, and when gutted they can be dimmed, and also come in warm white, plus they spread the light out evenly with no shadows.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on September 26, 2012, 11:04:46 PM
Nick,

LaserSaber showed a JR 3.0 where instead of connection to the emmiter from the bulb swap it to the collector.  I tried it on my LJL and it works just fine.  I can't believe with all the crazy stuff I tried I didn't accidentally do that.  Some months ago another experimenter showed this and I can't remember who it was.
Anyway, I can light CFL bulbs and incandescent bulbs fully bright and beyond off the aircore, whereas before it pushed the reversed biased transistor to its limit.  The transistor would get too hot with these bulbs.
Not sure lighting Incandescent bulbs this way makes sense, CFL bulbs I can understand because they are so low cost and consume very little power.
Nothing wrong with the ferrite rod, just good to know the aircore will work too.
I may try a mini aircore to see what it will do with the circuit.  I'll design for one spool of Radio Shack 30 awg and some common bell wire and see if it wont do the job.
The Big aircore I made is a beast and will turn bulbs on like a blaze.  But no-one is going to want to build something that big.

Nick, one other note.  To light the CFL fully bright with the turns I use I needed to up the voltage to 18-20 volts DC.  If you purpose wind the aircore for CFLs you can design for whatever voltage you want.  Just drop the number of primary turns or increase the secondary turns.  There you go, fully bright CFLs.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on September 27, 2012, 04:38:01 AM
   The hang-up that I have lighting Cfls to full brightness, is that my transistors will not take even 12volts without overheating.
 If I increase the turns on the primary, the light output drops. I already have about 600 700 turns on the secondary. And instead of going more turns, I'm looking for a much smaller transformer, or inverter set up.  Ferrite is the answer in any case, as without it the coil has to be much much bigger. 
  Radio Shack here does not have the 2n3055, so I bought a couple of their smaller TIP 3055 which are actually MJE 3055T instead. I could not get them to give a wireless output on my Exciter circuits, although they will work when they are wired to the Cfl. But, I'll give them a try with my version of a smaller 3 inch ferrite rod wound similar to what LS is showing.
  The advantage of going with the incandescent bulbs is their quality of light, which to me is much nicer than what leds or Cfls give off. Yes, it costs more to produce good brightness with those bulbs, but if it's a free source of power coming from solar panels, doesn't matter, much. I'd rather had less light of better quality, than brighter obnoxious lights.  Warm whites are easier to put up with, in anycase, and bugs aren't as attacked to them,  like they are to bright florescent bulbs or leds.
 I've got lots of Cfls of all sizes up to 65 watts, so I'm trying to find a way to light them, wireless Exciters have been fun and different,  but I don't see them as better or more efficient over all.  yet.   I was hoping that many bulbs could be feed off of one big exciter, but there are also limitations with each additional bulb added to the circuit. I'm still hoping to find the way of getting more light with each added bulb, like the Doc had mentioned when using Leds, instead of less getting less light with each additional bulb, as is happening now.

  Lasersaber's  last 3.0 version is a winner,  cheap to build, only one component, one ferrite coil, no noise, and it can be made bigger, or down sized, also.  Hard to beat.
  Thanks, Lasersaber.

   And LynxSteam,  good to hear back from you again.  Really been missing your input and tests, lately.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 27, 2012, 06:08:51 AM
Nick:

The TIP 3055 is what we used in the Jeanna's Circuit light.  That circuit puts out between 750 and 1,000 volts and will light up a bunch of stuff.  But again, the input here was just the little single AA battery.

Laser's circuit is amazing.  I may have to try this one also.

Bill
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on September 27, 2012, 01:52:09 PM
Nick,

I am using the warm CFLs throughout my house now.  They cost 99 cents each and I can't tell the difference between them and an incandescent.  The light is a warm yellowish light.  I forgot that you are trying to light bulbs wirelessly.  You may do better with a Tesla Coil circuit.  I use the TIP 3055 for that with a capacitor, resistor in the circuit.  I can light 60 watts of florescents from about 3 feet off a well charged 12 volt.  Not sure why your transistors are heating up.  Maybe you could show us your circuit and we could help.

You realize incandescents are more like toasters.  Most of the power is heat when they are bright.  I understand that the power is free and you don't care.  You may want to try the warm white CFLs just out of curiosity.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on September 28, 2012, 06:13:34 AM
 No doubt the warm white Cfls are easier on the eyes, I do have several of those also. But the ungutted ones can't be dimmed,   At a dollar or two they are hard to beat for now. I don't like them in the bathroom because when I see myself in the mirror, I can see the difference on how they make you look, not as nice, like you've  got hepatitis, as they are yellower, and less golden.
It's also a matter of finding just the right bulb, as they are all different, so are all the Led bulb types.
 
  I'm working on a 3 inch long ferrite coil similar to the LS 3.0 ringer, but smaller.  I tried it with the Tip 31, but haven't got it running yet. 'll know more by tomorrow.
  If you have a video or description of your set up lighting 60 watts of Cfls,  let me know where to look, or upload a link if you can.

  Nick

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on September 28, 2012, 02:03:09 PM
Nick,

Here is a video of the Tesla coil (SEC exciter) powering multiple florescents.   I moved away from this and to the more practical lighting that can be achieved with the blocking oscillator direct connected to bulbs.  It does open the mind when you see power conveyed through thin air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=598xpKIXMtk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=598xpKIXMtk)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: rxpc on October 02, 2012, 05:51:10 AM
I made one of these lamps using a toilet paper roll, it's only 3-3/4 inches long at 1-1/2 inches diameter. I had some left over 30awg magnet wire, enough to wind two secondary layers of 250 turns. The primary is 16 turns of 22awg. Works great so far, I've been able to get down to using 502ma with a modified 13watt CFL at maybe 60% brightness. If I had more 30awg, I would add another layer of 250 and see how bright I can get the CFL.

I'm gonna try using heavier wire on the primary, and possibly try building the larger 5,0 version.
Not easy winding this sucker, all manual, difficult to keep the 30awg wire even on the roll, and especially after using clear tape to insulate after the first layer. I Should have used colored tape so I didn't see through to the first layer of red magnet wire.

Anyway, thanks for sharing this info, it was fun building, and if I add more layers, I keep you posted on progress.

Wind baby wind!!!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Djoko on October 02, 2012, 06:35:54 AM
Hi all,

I just beginer in this forum. I made this lamp also last week. I am using 1" x 9" pvc pipe. 0.2 mm x 600 turn on sec, 1.5 mm x 43 turn on primary, tip 3005 and running on 12 V batt. The 45 watt cfl get very bright at 1.65 amp. The output voltage extremly high ( almost 1500 v). The problem is the transistor getting very hot. 
Here is my short vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9DggKjswh8
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on October 02, 2012, 08:12:02 AM
  Hello Lynxsteam and all:
   I'm still working on my 3.0 Ringer replication, using the smaller 3 inch ferrite rod.
   My transistors are still getting too hot on 12 volts though.
  It's very late at night here, I'll post some more tomorrow.
   The voltage on the circuit is about 10 volts, which is about what it can handle at the moment using the smaller transistors. I haven't had luck with the MJE 3055 (TIP 31), yet.
  I've got a 3inch coil from a crt monitor yoke. that I'm going to wind for this purpose, as I can't get the big expensive ferrite rod like LS uses.
   
           NickZ


Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: TinselKoala on October 02, 2012, 11:19:13 AM
Very nice, showing lighting the low voltage LED and the much higher voltage NE-2 with the same output, and your fingers acting as part of the circuit. The ferrite helps by allowing you to make your coils physically smaller, but the basic idea is vrswr: voltage rise through standing wave resonance. Air core coils need to be larger to operate at the same frequencies but have the potential to give higher voltages and currents because there is no core to saturate.
These results are very impressive due to the low voltage input. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on October 02, 2012, 11:21:58 AM
Here's a schematic of the circuit I use for more power.  3055 Transistors can take a lot of power but if you want to push CFLs or fluorescents you will probably push plastic cased transistors beyond their 1 amp limit.  2N2222 transistors work fine for LED bulbs but are pushed hard by CFLs.
Connect two transistors in mirror image, but use a 1 Ohm resistor across the bases to even out any slight difference.  You can gang up several transistors this way.
This kind of defeats the purpose of simplicity, but if you really want to light more wattage this will help.
I still have my most reliable success using LEDs.  They take half the power of CFL's and incandescents are just silly off this DC converter.
Connecting bulb from HV coil and collector help keep the transistor in its power range.

I'll post some photos of my big LJL using the two transistors.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: rxpc on October 04, 2012, 10:04:48 AM
Hi Lynxsteam,

  what kind of LED bulbs are you using? I think I can get as many as 40 primary winds on my little toilet roll setup, right now I have 2 layers of 250 winds of 30 awg wire secondary and 16 primary turns of 14 awg wire. I can light a 14 watt modded CFL light now close to 70% brightness and using 458ma. After adding a switching diode across the base/emitter, the CFL is brighter and....so far...seems to have eliminated my kick start issues.

I tried placing a ferrite rod inside the roll, but the CFL gets dimmer, I was using the rod to help kick start the circuit. The 2N3055 transistor still gets pretty hot, even with the diode and heatsink.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on October 04, 2012, 02:32:48 PM
Fluorescents are always harder on this circuit.  I had my best CFL success with the first version of this device.  Brads then confirmed the exact number of turns for fluorescents (something like 32:680).  See earlier in this thread.  Diameter of the aircore may play a role.  Yours is a little bit bigger diameter than what we tried.  I think with the larger diameter you are not confining the field inside the tube as well.
I use 7.5 watt warm LEDs by Utilitech Pro.  These bulbs have circuitry inside that is helping make this simple circuit work.  Avoid Philips LED bulbs, there is something about them that is designed for 60 hz sine wave and it is a power hog on the oscillator.  Interestingly Philips bulbs will run of 12 vDC.
I don't experience transistor heating unless I am running 8 or more bulbs.  Get out of the reverse bias mode if you can.  Maybe rewind the toilet paper tube on something similar to what was first shown in this thread.
Are you  just experimenting? or are you wanting to achieve something specific?
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: rxpc on October 04, 2012, 10:27:32 PM
Thanks Lynxsteam,

 I'm just experimenting with this circuit right now, and used what I had available to make the coil. As it is, it's great, but for
1 CFL bulb, adding more bulbs I can't get the brightness as with 1 bulb. I plan on making a larger one with PVC, it'll help with the windings. Heavier wire and rewinding is taking it's toll on the little toilet paper roll. 

I didn't have the transistor heat up as much until I lowered the primary windings, I'll go back to the 20:1 primary winding,
and see if that helps keep the transistor cooler.

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on October 05, 2012, 03:13:20 AM
rxpc,

Go back and look at B-rads video for clues on how to light fluorescents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmVt1sPbUdQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmVt1sPbUdQ)

Also note he followed the original design very closely.  The original design on this thread was for modded cfl's.  Later in this thread we started changing the design considerably to light the LED bulbs.  Perhaps the transistor heating is happening because you are using the LED design to light CFLs.
B-rads also noted that to start the CFLs takes more amperage but once warmed up the amps can be dropped.  This is usually done with a starter or ballast.  I think we can do this with the aircore by starting with fewer turns tapped.  Attach two wires to the primary - one at say 30 turns, another at 40 or so.  Once the bulb is started remove the tap at 30 turns.  This may also help in lighting several CFLs. 
Once you experiment with this, you may find that there are ways to use one design for different bulbs.  A double throw switch connected to different primary taps might accomplish this.  In the later versions I was using three layers of secondary to select low and high power.  Another clue is that the primary for CFLs was not tightly wrapped and was not closely spaced.  In some cases the primary only covered part of the secondary.  Again I think B-rads replication was the best insight.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: gadgetmall on October 05, 2012, 11:12:11 PM
unmodified cfls .. 5 volts http://youtu.be/8_0OsJUNlgw (http://youtu.be/8_0OsJUNlgw)
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on October 06, 2012, 03:14:19 AM
Gadgetmall-

Very nice video and great experiment!  I can light that same 40 watt unmodded CFL on the LJL aircore but I have the turns setup for 12 volts.  I find 12 volts is more common.  I can also change out for the LED and about the same brightness on a 60 watt incandescent as you are seeing.  But I also notice that you are doing some experiments that would indicate you are lighting these bulbs at very low amps.  Keep going and keep sharing.

I have been doing some experiments with a wind turbine alternator directly connected to the LJL circuit.  I have a 35 volt electrolytic capacitor smoothing the input voltage.  It takes very little with one finger turning the alternator to light the LED bulb.  I am hoping that this circuit can perhaps be a benefit to the small wind field.  Wind is tough because the power output changes from moment to moment by as much as a factor of 10x.
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: NickZ on October 06, 2012, 07:00:21 AM
  Hey Guys:
   Here is a picture of a small 2 inch tall Exciter circuit lighting a 15watt Cfl on 5 volts.  It's not full bright, but still very usable output. You don't really need to have a ferrite rod the full size of the air core. This one is using justa small one inch ferrite rod inside the core. Once tuned for the sweet spot it improved the output by about 30%, over when no ferrite is  used.  It will also light even a 65 watt Cfl very nicely.
 
   I'm still working on my ferrite rod 3.0 LS replication, and I'll probably make a video soon, if I can keep the transistors from going up in smoke, or getting hit by the bemf spikes, or whatever is knocking them off.  The HF burns and shocks are taking their toll on me... as even the 3 inch ferrite rod bites hard now.

  Lynx:  I'm also interested in having a wind generator, as there is a nice breeze here all night long, but not much during the day. So, solar panels to charge batteries in the day, and wind generator charging them at night. The best of both worlds.  Homemade batteries would also be nice to have, now that Bedini has come out with the Alum/lead cells. Using sea water would also be interesting in those batteries.

 

Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: Lynxsteam on October 06, 2012, 03:51:40 PM
I am working hard on getting an affordable DIY wind turbine kit ready for sale.  Its been three years of hard work and many prototypes.  Its absolutely quiet and doesn't have to be way up on a pole.  On the subject of batteries.  I have done some experimenting with sea water batteries.  It works very well.  1.5 volts per cell. 
Title: Re: Joule Lamp
Post by: puneet1984 on September 22, 2018, 05:45:38 PM
is this discussion still active??
Need to clear few doubts