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Author Topic: Joule Lamp  (Read 334578 times)

Lynxsteam

• Full Member
• Posts: 172
Re: Yippee!
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2012, 03:32:52 AM »
Increasing the number of winds lowered the current draw and the bulb got dimmer (sounds crazy huh).  Next, I need to chart the taps and current draw and graph out to see how this is working.  Thanks again Lynxsteam for the wonderful plans and vids that made this a relatively simple build.

I have also seen some weird things while tuning.  Normally if you increase the primary turns, secondary voltage should drop and amps should go up to compensate.  But there are some resonance points you will hit even with this closed circuit.  I think what happens is, even though the base isn't being biased as much the frequency is staying high and so are the voltage spikes.

Normally if you drop the number of primary turns, the resulting Voltage will be higher and so the amps it takes to do the work go down.  power = volts x amps = watts
As you load the circuit more the voltage returning to the base of the transistor goes down and so the transistor is turned on and off slower resulting in almost a shorted circuit between pulses.  Amps in this case will be high through the circuit.  If you put very little load on the circuit the frequency of oscillation can go very high and amps will drop because the transistor barely has time to send a burst of current (amps) through the primary.  With the CFLs the voltage at start may be 240 volts, quickly drops across the bulb to 40 v and amps might be only .100 amps =  4 watts.
As you load the circuit, frequency slows and amps go up, volts go down.  Volts might only be 10 across the bulb x .400 amps = 4 watts
What you will see at the source battery is voltage will drop from 12.4 down to 12.20 and amp draw might only be .350 amps = 4.27 watts
The rest of the power ends up as heat and vibration.  Keeping wires short, using heavy gauge where possible, tight connections all help efficiency.

All that said, I have also seen the initial power draw be high and then with a wiggle of the primary the power draw goes way down while the bulb is bright.  This may be resonance and energy cycling back and forth.  Its a moving target and takes constant tuning to achieve.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2012, 09:21:36 AM »
hi folks, here is a video showing the non-modified 15 watt cfl lighting.
peace love light
tyson

What I have seen doing my tests and in the many nice and instructive posts and videos:

Air core:

- high inaudible frequency (100 KHZ very big coils, 300 KHz smaller coils)
- it is difficult to draw more than a few Watts (may be up to 5 Watts, the inductance of air core coils is rather low)
- non-modified CFLs do not work (the bare tube has to be used), some non modified LED lamps do not work (this is probably due to the high frequency, some circuits in the 110V or 220V lamps are not built for frequencies far beyond 50 Hz or 60 Hz)

Ferrite core, iron core:

- low audible frequency (1 KHz to 6 KHz, the whine can be a problem)
- amp draw can be very high (in case many lamps are connected and the transistor has a heat sink, the inductance of ferrite core transformers is very high)
- non modified lamps work, even incandescent lamps

General features:

- the main tuning problem is the number of turns for primary and secondary (this has to be right to a certain degree otherwise the circuit will not oscillate)
- the second important factor is the supply voltage and there are "sweet spots", going lower can be an improvement
- a possible way of tuning is a variable resistor between the base of the transistor and the positive rail, but this seems to be of limited value, once "transformer" and supply voltage are correct, a high resistance (10K, 50K) may help to start oscillation when power is switched on
- the circuit adapts itself to a wide range of load (as long as the inductance of the "transformer" is sufficient to support the load)
- it may be that lamps driven with this circuit may not last as long as specified by the manufacturer for 110 V or 220 V (because some circuit components in the lamps may be stressed, there is probably no problem with bare bone CFL tubes)

My conclusion:

If one wants a lot of light (many and very bright lamps) a ferrite core transformer is the right choice (but the audible whine has to be controlled in some way, e.g. by dipping the transformer in a resin).

For one bare bones CFL tube a air core design might be a nice choice (mainly for the looks and the low cost).

JouleSeeker

• Hero Member
• Posts: 685
Re: Yippee!
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2012, 05:15:35 PM »
Good work to record "anomalies" -- this is where the "new physics" or at least new understanding is likely to occur IMO:

I have also seen some weird things while tuning. Normally if you increase the primary turns, secondary voltage should drop and amps should go up to compensate.  But there are some resonance points you will hit even with this closed circuit.  I think what happens is, even though the base isn't being biased as much the frequency is staying high and so are the voltage spikes.

Normally if you drop the number of primary turns, the resulting Voltage will be higher and so the amps it takes to do the work go down.  power = volts x amps = watts
As you load the circuit more the voltage returning to the base of the transistor goes down and so the transistor is turned on and off slower resulting in almost a shorted circuit between pulses.  Amps in this case will be high through the circuit.  If you put very little load on the circuit the frequency of oscillation can go very high and amps will drop because the transistor barely has time to send a burst of current (amps) through the primary.  With the CFLs the voltage at start may be 240 volts, quickly drops across the bulb to 40 v and amps might be only .100 amps =  4 watts.
As you load the circuit, frequency slows and amps go up, volts go down.  Volts might only be 10 across the bulb x .400 amps = 4 watts
What you will see at the source battery is voltage will drop from 12.4 down to 12.20 and amp draw might only be .350 amps = 4.27 watts
The rest of the power ends up as heat and vibration.  Keeping wires short, using heavy gauge where possible, tight connections all help efficiency.

All that said, I have also seen the initial power draw be high and then with a wiggle of the primary the power draw goes way down while the bulb is bright.  This may be resonance and energy cycling back and forth.  Its a moving target and takes constant tuning to achieve.

Also, if indeed the coil operates in Tesla-resonance mode sometimes and in air-core transformer mode sometimes -- that is important!  (good question, Nerzh, and good response lynx!)

Lynxsteam

• Full Member
• Posts: 172
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2012, 05:53:51 PM »
LaserSaber gave me a hint about using much heavier gauge on the primary.  He didn't give me any details as to why, but I will give it a try to see what difference it makes.

Using the same 12" long LJL I videoed yesterday I am going to use 18 awg 264 turns on the secondary, 25 turns x 4 in parallel  12 awg stranded insulated wire on the primary.  Doing this the primary is solidly filled across the length, but in effect is only 25 turns, but 6 awg.  It also provides perfect spacing on the primary coil.

• Full Member
• Posts: 203
Stranded vs solid wire
« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2012, 08:26:23 PM »
In thinking about the use of stranded wire vs. solid wire, I found this information on Wikipedia:

Wiki - Wire

This is what it says:

"At high frequencies, current travels near the surface of the wire because of the skin effect, resulting in increased power loss in the wire. Stranded wire might seem to reduce this effect, since the total surface area of the strands is greater than the surface area of the equivalent solid wire, but ordinary stranded wire does not reduce the skin effect because all the strands are short-circuited together and behave as a single conductor. A stranded wire will have higher resistance than a solid wire of the same diameter because the cross-section of the stranded wire is not all copper, there are unavoidable gaps between the strands (this is the circle packing problem for circles within a circle). A stranded wire with the same cross-section of conductor as a solid wire is said to have the same equivalent gauge and is always a larger diameter. However, for many high-frequency applications, proximity effect is more severe than skin effect, and in some limited cases, simple stranded wire can reduce proximity effect. For better performance at high frequencies, litz wire, which has the individual strands insulated and twisted in special patterns, may be used."

JouleSeeker

• Hero Member
• Posts: 685
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2012, 10:02:38 PM »
I'd appreciate some wisdom on what LED bulbs to get.
Below we see a 6W LED bulb for only \$3.99 + shipping, a bargain.  But -- only 320 Lumens, that is, 320/6W = 53 Lm/W.  Not so great.

OTOH, I find other LED bulbs at 3W that claim 300 Lm, nearly as much as the one above, but at 3W input instead of 6W.  And that is 300Lm/3W = 100 Lm/W!  It also accepts input voltage from 85 to 260 VAC.  Costs more, around \$12.

There is a whole range of LED bulbs available, 12V-DC, 120 V, 220 V, 85-260V, and various configurations and Lm/W also.

EDIT:  Add:  Is DIMMABLE preferable?  these cost more...

Any suggestions on which LED bulbs might  be best for these Lynx-lamp experiments?  What is the Lumens/W of your bulbs Lynx, others?

I'm hoping to MAXIMIZE Lumens/Watt with the lynx-lamp... not necessarily with the bulb as purchased and run on the grid.

Lynxsteam

• Full Member
• Posts: 172
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2012, 12:09:40 AM »
This Utiltech pro LED warm 450 lumens, is the LED I bought at Lowes for \$9 each.  Its not wasted money because they will last a long time.  This is a nice bulb and it looks very much like the one Laser Saber uses in his video.  Lumens is stated as 450 at 7.5 watts.  I think if you can find this one we can all compare.

Lynxsteam

• Full Member
• Posts: 172
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2012, 02:13:07 PM »
I tested the UtiliTech Pro 450 on AC from the wall plug.  This bulb is spec'd at 7.5 watts.  But it pulls 18.5 watts and is very bright.  On my LJL circuit it consumes 4.7 watts.

Lynxsteam

• Full Member
• Posts: 172
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2012, 09:03:58 PM »
Here is some of what I am learning that might help fellow explorers.

Our secondary is running at very high frequencies.  At this high frequency the transistor is fully on and off so fast that the light is flickering at several thousand times a second.  The eye is fooled into perceiving this as on.  With normal household AC the light is on and off 60 times a second and the eye still sees it as on.  But at 60 hz, power is on fully for longer than with high frequency spikes.  This may be the reason LaserSaber can demonstrate higher lumens on less power than with 60 hz supply, not to mention the losses from the inverter circuitry, voltage and frequency regulators.

The next thing is at these high frequencies even with an aircore coil we can experience core losses similar to a ferrite transformer, because of the "skin effect".  Only the outside part of the secondary wire carries the current.  So in my experiment yesterday with a heavier gauge secondary I saw a higher power draw and slightly less performance.  Smaller wire has greater surface area.

But if you go too small you lose the amount of material needed to provide the necessary inductance.

The primary coil is running at this high frequency too.  Maximizing surface area is important here too in order to reduce the skin effect problem.  I am running 4 insulated primary wires to maximize induction and reduce skin effect.  The use of litz wires or twisted insulated wires could be of benefit.  4-6 twisted insulated wires for the primary may be much better than a single primary wire.  Using copper tubing would greatly increase surface area because of the inner and outer skin of a tube.

Proximity of wire next to wire causes capacitance problems which can't be avoided in the secondary at high frequency, but should be avoided in the primary by spacing the primary turns apart.

Because the aircore coil's inductance can be several thousand times less than a ferrite core transformer the primary to secondary ratio needs to be higher.  I find that a ratio of 10:1 isn't enough for LEDs off 12 volts.  If we use a ratio of 15:1 we should see 180 rms acv without a load.  Once the load is applied voltage will drop across the load to about 60 vac.  Right now with a 10:1 ratio volts across the load (1 bulb) are dropping to 39 vac and the DC component is 3.9 as opposed to the ferrite transformer's DC component at 4.9 v.  Proof that a ferrite transformer has much higher induction.

So what's all this mean?  I am going to try going back to 368 turns 20 awg on the secondary.  25 turns on the primary of twisted insulated wire spaced evenly apart.  The goal is to get closer to the performance of the SJR2.0.  Why bother?  Because if the problems can be addressed, air core coils have an advantage at higher frequencies and power draw could be lower than a ferrite transformer.  And for fun!

• Full Member
• Posts: 203
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2012, 11:39:46 PM »
In researching the "proximity effect" yesterday while looking at stranded vs. solid core wire, I found reference to a way to overcome some of this effect.  Parallel wires cause the effect however crossing of the wires eliminates some of this effect.  It might be interesting to try winding the first half of the primary the full length and then bring the second half back over and wind to the beginning.  This might increase the space between the parallel wires in addition to creating intersections where the first half and second half cross over each other, if that makes sense.

JouleSeeker

• Hero Member
• Posts: 685
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2012, 06:23:11 AM »
I'm still gearing up, and have been searching for high lumens-per-watt LED bulbs today.  I figure that it is a good goal to seek for high Lm/W output (with minimal input), and that one might start with a high Lm/W bulb to begin with...
Quote
"This Utiltech pro LED warm 450 lumens, is the LED I bought at Lowes for \$9 each.  Its not wasted money because they will last a long time.  This is a nice bulb and it looks very much like the one Laser Saber uses in his video.  Lumens is stated as 450 at 7.5 watts."

This works out to 450 Lm/ 7.5W = 60 Lm/W, which is fairly low for LED bulbs actually as I look around on line.
Tmart.com sells a variety of LED lamps, often with ratings around 100Lm/W  (they give you Lumens and Watts typically; just divide).  Below is a lamp that is quite good -- if the ratings hold true:  400 Lm/3W = 133Lm/W, about twice the Lm/W for that lamp from Lowes.  133Lm/W is the highest for any LED bulb I found... And inexpensive at \$7.  I ordered a couple; evidently the demand is high and these are back-ordered.

JouleSeeker

• Hero Member
• Posts: 685
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2012, 07:15:46 AM »
Over at EF.com, my friend Slider goes the other way -- makes the coil SMALLER, and has some success. Note his compliments to Lynx also:

Quote
Moving on to building. I was intrigued by an email link to the OU forum, of the Joule Lamp by Lynxsteam and had an idea to decrease the physical sizing of the excellent work seen so far. I was besotted with b_rads work, it looked like a crystal radio was running a CFL !!! I mean, how cool is that ! (http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Just a small step of an idea, but definitely wishing to move toward what is possible without including ferrite. Being as these are a lot like Slayer exciters, it intrigues me to know how small these can go, yet still produce useable results.
So, a previously wound secondary was selected - 4.5" length of 1/2" PVC pipe, 360 winds of 30 gauge. A toilet roll was then cut down its length and adjusted til it fit over the secondary coil. The excess was trimmed off and then it was taped to hold the shape. Onto which went 32 turns of 26 gauge.
Transistor is a D2641 Darlington power transistor, which came from a bag of trannies and still has a 1N4007 across Base and Emitter, so I just left it there.
Power is 12V, from a converted old PC power supply.

Here are two pics.
The first is an LED nightlight, which although the draw was a monstrous 500mA, lights the light brighter than when plugged directly into the wall. Sorry for the lack of light box type exactness there, which is a fine idea for comparisons testing.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7051-joule-ringer-40.html

• Full Member
• Posts: 203
Current Draw on Primary
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2012, 03:56:03 PM »
This is a short video showing the current draw using different number of turns on the primary.  Can someone explain why, when I put LED's on the circuit, the current goes way up compared to using CFL's.  The current using LED's measured with a digital multimeter was 1.36 Amps.  The camera ran out of disk space while filming, sorry for the sudden ending.  Hope you enjoy.

Current Draw on LJL

Lynxsteam

• Full Member
• Posts: 172
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2012, 05:46:31 PM »

I watched your video.  I have noted the same performance.  The circuit has to be setup differently for LEDs as opposed to setting up for florescent tubes.  Florescents take 190 volts or so to start.  LED's need about 90-130 volts.

To get the circuit started the DC voltage has to energize the primary with enough field to induce a voltage high enough in the secondary to reverse bias the transistor.  The primary has to act as a capacitor to allow the current somewhere to go.  I think this is why magnet wire doesn't work as a primary in this circuit.  You need a good thick insulation on the primary and some spacing between turns.

When the transistor turns off due to the magnetic field blocking the DC, the field collapses and you get a high voltage spike with no where to go except across the bulb.

As frequency slows the transistor is fully on longer and the amp draw goes up.  LaserSaber shows this in his video where you can hear the frequency dropping as he screws in more bulbs.  This automatically adjusts the power to the load.  In your video you are forcing frequency lower with fewer turns on the primary thereby causing a higher amp draw until finally the capacitance of the primary isn't enough to keep the oscillation going.

To prove/disprove this idea, try keeping turns constant and add a second bulb and note amp draw.  Move down the taps and see what happens.  Try a heavier gauge stranded wire with thicker insulation.  I have had good results with double insulated stranded electrical wire used for home wiring.

Note:  I barely know what I'm talking about, hopefully an EE will straighten me out.

JouleSeeker

• Hero Member
• Posts: 685
Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2012, 07:08:18 PM »
Very interesting vid, Brad, and suggestions, Lynx.

Over here, I've plotted the data points for the calibration of my light-box-2, described earlier:
http://www.overunity.com/12340/joule-lamp/30/

The plot shows the linearity of the response in Lux for various Lumens output, with Lumens given on the packaging for each bulb.

The slope of the graph is the conversion factor FOR THIS LIGHT BOX.  You should do such a quick plot for each light box you build.  For this one, the conversion factor is 0.08(0) Lumens/Lux.
Now I can put an unknown light source in there, such as a bulb during Lynx-Lamp testing, and actually measure the Lumens!  I will be able to tell HOW MUCH the light is actually getting brighter or dimmer as I change things like the tap on the primary.
(PS == Not hard to build a light-box! and easy to calibrate.  I think Nerzh said he is building one.)