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Author Topic: Joule Lamp  (Read 297084 times)

Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #165 on: June 22, 2012, 08:23:02 PM »
  Hi, e2matrix -- Yeah, I need to get to measuring power output more directly (as discussed in my last post) right away.    The light-box I'm using for COMPARATIVE Lumens measurements is helpful to see progress; but its not a sphere and besides (as I said) I'm ready to move along to measuring power output directly.

Good point, Lynx:
Quote
To measure power output is going to be very tricky.  Output changes according to load.  If you could get a resistive load like a heating element and adjust the Ohms until you get to the same hz as you would expect with the LED bulbs it might be accurate.  This is how we measure output of alternators at different rpm. 

I'm looking at this, adjusting resistance, combined with calorimetry, to get a solid handle on the output power.  It will be useful for other devices, too, of course.

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #165 on: June 22, 2012, 08:23:02 PM »

Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #166 on: June 22, 2012, 09:29:12 PM »
Hi Lynxsteam & people,
 
Would you ship your coils to France?
Could you give us some idea of your prices?

Else:
................
I am sure this is an area to explore but I believe in the end more components
would be required  and there is no need to make something simple a lot more difficult.
..........

I do agree.

I have tried to put a 1N4007 diode (your initial CCT) between the transistor base
and the transistor emitter. The amp consumption is divided by about 3 but
my 6 watts fluorescent tubes bright less.
Yes, this is a very accurate scientific measurement... :P

BTW: If you try this diode, please do not connect it between the transistor base
and the transistor collector as I wrongly did. I very promptly managed
to transform the 253055 into a mere diode. :-[

Some other 'measurements':
Frequency of my Slayer Exciter= 4.5 MHz.
Frequency of my LJL:
With the now deceased transistor (2N30550) about 700 KHz.
With a new 2N3055: about 2 MHz.... ???

These frequencies can be checked with a medium/short waves AM receiver.
You can perceive the "carrier" (absence of 'noise') and also perform some
kinda Morse  by hand hitting some wires.

The Slayer exciter can even be transformed into a small Theremin instrument.
You just have to move your hand  near the coil and you can hear some
modulated sounds in the AM receiver.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin

Very Best,
Jean

Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #167 on: June 22, 2012, 10:25:41 PM »
  Agreed, Nerzh -- it's exciting that Lynx is willing to build and sell these (presume on ebay).
Get others researching this!

 You say 2 MHz on your LJL;  the cranberry-version LJL I'm studying has about 20-30 KHz (depending on # of LED bulbs etc)!  can't pick that up on my radio... ;)

Check out Lasersaber's latest -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPabWOqnvsc&feature=em-uploademail .  Cool!  doubt he'll make and sell these...  :)   Also, I wonder if he can really fly with one of these machines (doubtful IMO, but he is a clever guy).

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #167 on: June 22, 2012, 10:25:41 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #168 on: June 23, 2012, 01:40:47 AM »
"I would like to dump the AC power-out into a resistance-load, warm water, and measure the temp-rise.  Simple calorimeter approach.  If this loading does not itself change the circuit's efficiency!"

You will have to find a resistance value that consumes the most energy and produces the most heat. There will most likely be a peak resistance value to be most eff in heating the water over a period of time.

Like if you used a say 1 ohm resistor, there might be more heat developed in the output coil, thus less in the resistor.  Or if the resistance were way too high, then very little current will be flowing thus not much heat anywhere.
;)

Just saying, there will be a perfect value for the resistor to "match" the output capability of the output coil.  Seek and yee shall find. ;]

Mags

Offline Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #169 on: June 23, 2012, 03:13:49 AM »
These AirCore coils will oscillate when the output is placed in H2O.  You can vary the distance of an aluminum rod and a zinc rod until you match the Hz that will match the load you are looking for.  Then measure the ml or moles of H2O disassociated into hydrogen and oxygen.  You could compare the power required to do this to the watts at input.  5-20 watts isn't much so you probably have to do this for a while. 
I ran mine for about two minutes and bubbles do form.  I could hear a slightly audible tone in the glass of water and the frequency was 6.87 khz.  The transistor started getting warm.  6.87 khz would be similar to about ten - twelve bulbs on the circuit.
I don't know if the power equivalent to disassociate water and emit light are comparable.

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #169 on: June 23, 2012, 03:13:49 AM »
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Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #170 on: June 23, 2012, 05:43:08 AM »
Quote from: NerzhDishual
Hi Lynxsteam & people,
...

I have tried to put a 1N4007 diode (your initial CCT) between the transistor base
and the transistor emitter. The amp consumption is divided by about 3 but
my 6 watts fluorescent tubes bright less.
...
Very Best,
Jean

You may want to try three or four diodes series connected across the base-emitter
leads.  The purpose of those diodes is to limit the amount of reverse bias which
is applied to the base-emitter junction by the feedback winding during the time
the transistor is being turned OFF.  A certain amount of reverse bias at that time
is desired since it will aid in turning the transitor off rapidly and completely.

However, if the reverse bias pulse is strong enough (More than about 7 Volts) to
take the base-emitter junction into breakdown then the transistor can do unpredictable
things and its power dissipation will increase.

Limiting the reverse bias feedback pulse to about 4 to 5 Volts will expedite
turn OFF for increased efficiency and prevent it from taking the base-emitter into breakdown.

Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #171 on: June 23, 2012, 07:05:38 AM »
These AirCore coils will oscillate when the output is placed in H2O.  You can vary the distance of an aluminum rod and a zinc rod until you match the Hz that will match the load you are looking for.  Then measure the ml or moles of H2O disassociated into hydrogen and oxygen.  You could compare the power required to do this to the watts at input.  5-20 watts isn't much so you probably have to do this for a while. 
I ran mine for about two minutes and bubbles do form.  I could hear a slightly audible tone in the glass of water and the frequency was 6.87 khz.  The transistor started getting warm.  6.87 khz would be similar to about ten - twelve bulbs on the circuit.
I don't know if the power equivalent to disassociate water and emit light are comparable.

This is very interesting, Lynx...
But I have a question about Water electrolysis and heating with AC...

Let's start with 60 Hz 120 V from the mains, two electrodes in tap water.  How much electrolysis into H2 and O2 will there be?  how much heating?

Now I've done numerous experiments with "Davey sonic bells" just like this -- two bells, one connected to the hot line and one to return/ground.  I observe slow heating from room temp -- not many bubbles indicating electrolysis.  There are some small bubbles, but I think this is due to dissolved air coming out of the water... not sure.

Further, the heating agrees with what I expect for simple resistive heating of the water -- watts in, hot water as the result.Q (Joules) =  Cp * mass * (change in temperature)The specific heat (Cp) of water is 1 calorie/gram °C = 4.186 joule/gram °C.

Distilled water heats very slowly -- very high resistance.


Next let's go to higher Freq, say 20 KHz.  I haven't done the experiment with water; but I expect no significant electrolysis again.

I'm here to learn -- is this right,  no significant electrolysis  compared to resistive heating, with AC in tap water?

I'm particularly curious about using this method to measure output power in a blocking-oscillator circuit, with the output AC used to directly heat water... I think Lynx was suggesting something like this, with electrolysis...

Comments welcomed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #171 on: June 23, 2012, 07:05:38 AM »
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Offline Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #172 on: June 23, 2012, 03:45:13 PM »
If you use aluminum for one plate and galvanized steel for another (or other metal except al) it forms a diode in water.  By adding baking soda to the water the aluminum becomes an even better diode after an hour or so with AC.  I am not sure what you are trying to do.  Can't you just measure the AC amps to the bulbs?  Is it too imprecise with the high frequency?

LEDs don't really exhibit resistance, they have an I/V characteristic.  So you can't really calculate V2/R for power.  It just so happens that the voltage drop is about 3-5 volts so its perfect for reverse biasing the transistor.  Its also tough to calculate resistance for an incandescent bulb because resistance increases as the bulb gets hotter.

Are you trying to determine the efficiency of the DC converter?  Aren't we mainly concerned with power in/light energy out?  Are you dissatisfied with the light box measurement?

This evening I will do a video showing my garage lit with LEDs utilizing grid power and then with the same bulbs utilizing the LJL DC converter.  That's where "the rubber meets the road".

Also, not sure how many people are reading this stuff, but I have a question.  Would people be more interested in mounting the converter near the battery, and have a remote switch near a wall plate, or have the converter mounted with integral switch near the wall plate?  Would it be more convenient to have one large converter, or a couple small converters?

Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #173 on: June 23, 2012, 04:09:09 PM »
  While I'm consistently seeking new and better ways to measure power output, I should note that my light-box has been checked with a number of lumens-rated bulbs, and it shows considerable consistency and reliability -- as demonstrated in the graph of the data I obtained with it, attached. 

  I do think it is important to use more than one method of measuring power output; lumens measurement can be an effective tool as we seek improvements.
 

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #173 on: June 23, 2012, 04:09:09 PM »
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Offline Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #174 on: June 24, 2012, 06:11:44 AM »
Joule Seeker,

I agree it is important to find out how efficient this circuit is.  Verifying a couple different ways is smart.

Here is another way to measure.  It isn't quantitative, but rather it is the "qualitative" measure some of the forum members here have wondered about.  The one thing I could have done but didn't do would have been to install equivalent incandescent bulbs.  We pretty much know that the watts would have been about 140 and much of that power is creating heat. 

I was impressed not only with my device keeping pace with Detroit Edison but the quality of the light from these bulbs.  Its very pleasant, especially compared to the glare of CFLs.

Here's the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLqJ3CVVEQc

Offline NickZ

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #175 on: June 24, 2012, 07:53:49 AM »
 Lynx:
   Those bulbs work very well.  Thanks for showing us your set up.

   I'm working on the solar Exciter, and getting it to light several gutted CFL bulbs, which has been coming along, slow but steady.
  Here are some photos, and a video that I made today.  I've already got the solar cells, and 12 battery ready. Kinda like Hitman's boxed set-up that was lighting 10 2 watt leds. But, I had a bunch of the dead CFLs waiting just for this, so I decide to use them, first.

    My latest video:
  Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55J7pqD7tk

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #175 on: June 24, 2012, 07:53:49 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #176 on: June 24, 2012, 08:06:05 AM »
  This is the link to the video (above), I don't know why it' not linking it like normal.
So, I hope that it works this time.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y55J7pqD7tk
                                                                 
          NickZ

Offline Lynxsteam

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #177 on: June 25, 2012, 12:54:28 AM »
Nick,

Very cool setup!  Looks like a Tesla lab.  Why is that big chunk of aluminum so close to the experiment?  Seems like that would really suck the energy out of the coils.

A note on my testing in my latest Video.  I thought I would find out how much the power draw was going up due to the AC power wire run length in feet.  I was going to be very scientific and calculate by feet what the power effect was.  Its about a 90 foot loop counting both AC lines. 
But, the power draw was the same directly run off the LJL converter - 2.24 amps.  Earlier this week I had run 4 Utilitech 7.5 watt bulbs on 21 watts, now these 3 Utilitech and one Philips 3 watt bulb takes 26 watts.  The Philips bulbs are power hogs!  I sort of knew that, but I bought this cute little bulb because it looks good in the outside carriage lantern.

I get more light on less power draw by replacing the Philips bulb.  21 watts instead of 26 watts, and the transistor doesn't get warm, and the length of the AC run isn't that big a factor in a normal household situation.

Lots to learn and document in these experiments.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #178 on: June 25, 2012, 04:21:14 AM »
  Glad you like my set up, the reason I go wireless is to see if I can light several bulbs on just mAs.  Slayer has shown that his Exciter circuit wired to a smaller LS type of E-core could light a gutted 2 or 3 watt led bulb on 28 mAs, using 12v, and only half that current when using 6 volts.  I'll bet that more bulbs can be strung in series there also.     Lasersaber has 10 bulbs running on 200 mAs. That's like 20 mA per bulb.

  It looks like the lower the voltage levels that are used,  the current draw also drops proportionally.  So, a 6 volt battery will draw half the current as the 12 volt one will.
But, the light intensity may not drop by half as much.

  The big aluminum block is there to add capacitance to the circuit, and will help to brighten the bulbs up.  The two small towels are working together with each other.
Each CFL bulb is different from the rest of them, and each has a different type  of light quality, and intensity.  Some may also be hogs, but they me costed me,  zilch.
 
   

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Joule Lamp
« Reply #179 on: June 25, 2012, 07:45:12 AM »
Quote from: NickZ
...
 The two small towels are working together with each other.
...

I watched the video twice just to try and see those small
"towels."   ;)

RF induction and what it is able to do experimentally is
always a sight to behold.  CFLs are a good vehicle for
that sort of demonstration.

 

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