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Author Topic: magnetic perpetual motion  (Read 45957 times)

neptune

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2012, 02:23:58 PM »
@Mastersus. Yes I can see what you mean about repulsion and the broken magnet. Either you did not explain it in enough detail, or I failed to understand. As an ex conjuror, I am always aware of people being fooled. Until and unless someone replicates this, it just remains an urban myth to those of us who were not there. Notice that I did not call you a liar, as you are convinced it was real, and you were there. Scepticism is not always a negative thing. Sometimes we have to reach an open verdict due to a scarcity of evidence.

TinselKoala

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2012, 02:59:11 PM »
Did I miss the answer to the question about where exactly the other magnets were, when you were watching the rotor accelerate?

Or did it get lost in the skeptic-bashing somewhere?


I mean... someone relates a story about seeing a simple device--- similar if not identical to hundreds that you can find on this very forum alone.... and a story that has been used in literature many times.....

and he won't even answer a simple polite question about where the other, broken, magnet pieces are, but has plenty of time to bash those who ask the questions.

OK... I see that as being completely par for the course. Carry on with your Minato motor discussion, but remember: he has the patent on the angled magnet arrangement.

mastersus

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2012, 06:08:47 PM »
@Mastersus. Yes I can see what you mean about repulsion and the broken magnet. Either you did not explain it in enough detail, or I failed to understand. As an ex conjuror, I am always aware of people being fooled. Until and unless someone replicates this, it just remains an urban myth to those of us who were not there. Notice that I did not call you a liar, as you are convinced it was real, and you were there. Scepticism is not always a negative thing. Sometimes we have to reach an open verdict due to a scarcity of evidence.

Hi neptune...sorry if I puffed up a bit there.

The broken magnet played no part of the demo, was done on a wooden work bench, I surmised he handed it to me to see whether I understood  some elementary magnetic principals i.e. the fact that a broken magnet can't be put together as the new poles created at the break repulse, not attract.

I have never thought healthy scepticism to be negative, outright denunciation is an other matter...so let's continue :)

...mastersus   

mastersus

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2012, 06:31:57 PM »

e2matrix

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2012, 06:51:49 PM »
mastersus,  Thanks again for sharing info here.  It may be good to realize there is rather little moderation on this forum.  That leads to a lot of armchair judges which are often quick to rebuke new claims.  Many here have seen hundreds if not thousands of claims of perpetual motion, overunity, self-running magnet generators and so on.  Yet most would not still be here looking if they had the details to build such devices.   The skepticism and even anger at new claims after seeing so many things proven bogus or incorrect measurements and so on is not uncommon nor unexpected.  A few people though will try to honestly and with open mind assess whether it may be possible.  Next usually comes whether it is economically a good plan to try building something and to do that you will get a lot more nitpicking on details.  Try not to take it personally as people in their anonymity on the Internet can come off a bit callous after having spent so much time seeing things that do not work out.   

There are a couple real magnetic field experts around here and if one of them happens on to this thread you may get an explanation of how or if this was possible.  I've seen companies that claim to have magnet motor generators and although I believe some are real and have seen large investments in building such I still don't see any available to the general public so it's still a choice of belief as to whether this concept works. 

DreamThinkBuild

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 10:49:31 PM »
Hi Mastersus,

I would expect skepticism from any type of magnet motor. I've tried building many different setups all leading to failure. I have not seen this design before where one side is smaller towards the middle. The Minato wheel uses flat segments with equal fields on each end and is not curved.

The difficulty in testing this design is being able to fabricate the magnets. Do you know if they were standard block magnets rounded off?

Hi E2matrix,

They have triangular magnets (magnetized from base to point) but they are pricy. Would be interesting to know the difference of field strength between the point and base.

http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?products_id=426

mastersus

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2012, 01:27:01 AM »
Hi Mastersus,

I would expect skepticism from any type of magnet motor. I've tried building many different setups all leading to failure. I have not seen this design before where one side is smaller towards the middle. The Minato wheel uses flat segments with equal fields on each end and is not curved.

The difficulty in testing this design is being able to fabricate the magnets. Do you know if they were standard block magnets rounded off?

Hi E2matrix,

They have triangular magnets (magnetized from base to point) but they are pricy. Would be interesting to know the difference of field strength between the point and base.

http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?products_id=426

I seem to remember the magnets on the rotor were parabolic curved, whether they started as standard blocks I couldn't say.

...matersus


e2matrix

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2012, 01:29:12 AM »
Hi DreamThinkBuild,  Those are the exact same ones I looked at the other night LOL.  Interesting design and I also wondered how the field would be around such a shape.    Given the design mastersus has shown though it almost looks like they are half circles.  Without more detailed specs I would hesitate to buy a bunch of triangle magnets for this project (at least on my budget) as it looks like it would be easy to spend a couple hundred if they are triangle magnets.  Nearly all Neo magnets have gotten expensive the last couple years. 

seraphis

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2012, 06:26:28 AM »
Hi guys,

Magnet motors have been around for over one hundred years.

See attachment.

mastersus

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 01:14:26 PM »
Hi guys,

Magnet motors have been around for over one hundred years.

See attachment.

Indeed, also Nicholas Tesla developed processes that provided free energy and all his information is still available...so why are these not available today?---simple, there's no profit to be made, therefore it doesn't fit in with today's unending quest for growth.

 Thought money is not a real physicality per say, it exists only because we say it does, that is the vast majority think it does. In reality money is human input (work hours/rates) either on it's own or coupled with natural resources to produce products, nothing else, money simply provides a vehicle for free flow of this. If we resigned money no person could gain more than their own input, their fair share, you could say. No one person could achieve grater station than his neighbor. If you take this final statement to it's conclusion Mankind - Homo Sapiens - could become a wealthier species in every way...food for thought! 
New paradigms are needed. Albert Einstein showed us through E=Mc2 that the environment, conclusively the entire known Universe, is crammed with energy, it surrounds and invades every known think, I have already mentioned one above who proved this, but unless the mass of people embrace this paradigm nothing will change.
All who have joined this forum, for what ever reason, have the ability both to grasp this truth and start something new, this would provide hope.

Before anyone jumps on me for having the audacity to put this in writing, I ask that you look at the field of over unity, particularly freely available energy or net energy gains which exist, some being worked on as we speak, by companies such as Hitachi ---www.cheniere.org/misc/kawai.htm---you might also want to research - Gabriel Kron and the Negative Resistor.

For myself, I hold an MSc in sustainability gained at the University of Dundee, and during my studies came to the conclusion that gaining sustainability in all areas is quite simple, gaining it for profit/growth is unattainable.

...mastersus         

seraphis

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 11:00:39 PM »
Hi guys,

I have attached another foreign patent translation. This one's from Japan - 1978.

Enjoy.

gyulasun

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 08:45:38 PM »
Hi guys,

Magnet motors have been around for over one hundred years.

See attachment.

 Hi seraphis,
 
 Very interesting motor setup, using only permanent magnets and soft iron cores, I have not yet seen such arrangement with them in such combination.  Thank you for the the very good translation from French if it was done by you. 
 Would like to ask if you are aware of any attempts to replicate this motor? Would be very good to see it working...  8)
 
 I just noticed your second upload on the Japan magnet motor.  If you happen to have some more translations on the H02K53 patent area from other foreign patents, that would be also good to read...  but I know a lot of Chinese or Korean patents are just  ideas, most of them can be seen at once as impossible setups.  Surely there are some pearls like the French one, I like it because after reading it a few times  I cannot say it would be impossible... ;)
 
 Thanks, Gyula

seraphis

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2012, 12:33:32 AM »
Hello Gyula,

If you are interested in doing patent searches then I suggest using the following classifications.

H02K53, H02N11, H02K57, F03G7. There are other class. but these are the main ones.

I have been searching and collecting copies of patents for many, many years and you are right to suggest that there are 'pearls' out there. Because there are many. And you are also correct in your assessment about Chinese and Korean patent applications as being overimaginative and unrealistic. However I do believe that the Korean mind is very creative and I will be posting some patent translations worthy of serious consideration. I will also be posting more from Japan, France, Russia and Germany. Some old(1879), some new(2012).

Thanks,

seraphis

gyulasun

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2012, 10:53:19 PM »
Hi seraphis,
 
 Thanks for the classification info (some of them was known to me, years ago I also searched some of them in patent offices and since the web the online possibility is much convenient of course) and looking forward to reading some of your 'pearls'.   8)
 
 My best shot so far has been this US patent application (and I strongly doubt a final patent will ever be granted) from a Japanese guy, Makoto Ogoshi, perhaps you have also come across him in one of his (Japanese or international) patents out of the several ones he has applied or been granted so far.  So my "pearl"  is this application: US2005140231, Power generator and torque amplifier, a simple link is here:
 
  http://www.google.com/patents/US20050140231
 
 [In the Example section of the application the inventor wrote the input power was 8 times 50W=400W (from eight 24V DC motors) and the output power was 2 kW AC...]
 
 rgds,  Gyula

ruin41

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Re: magnetic perpetual motion
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2012, 01:37:23 AM »
I see way too many flaws in this from the device to to the story. A guy who is clearly practical with both metal wood and magnets cant make a brake ??? One could easily hide the batteries and coil to drive this in the wood as we have all seen before but the switch took me a while to figure but 2 wires up through the uprights would work for this since the metal rod of the shaft now becomes the switch and stops it going flat while sitting on the shelf and if you really got clever and used rechargables these could be used to recharge it as well. This seems to me to be the only way to explain why it doesnt have something simple to hold the rotor in place.  Its cute that broken magnets only go back together 180 degrees to their original situation but nothing in those 2 parts has actaully changed they are still north and south at the same ends as they were before.