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Author Topic: need advise for windmill system  (Read 14524 times)

Offline TheOne

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need advise for windmill system
« on: April 16, 2012, 02:05:45 AM »
I need advise for a small windmill system for my garage



I am looking to buy a 12v/24v windmill rated 300W and 12v led light 10watts each to fill up the garage.
What I have right now is an 1800watts inverter working on 12 volts.


I will start with one windmill, and later add other on the garage roof, to be able to heat the garage during the winter.

What is best a 12 or 24 volt system, what is the 24 volt advantage ?


During the winter I would like the extra energy to power up the heater in the garage and during summer to light up the led light inside the garage.



Is there a way to, for example, when the batteries are charged to put the extra energy to light up the light or to heat the garage with a controller?

If you have suggestion please share I am new in the solar/wind system :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

need advise for windmill system
« on: April 16, 2012, 02:05:45 AM »

Offline mscoffman

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 10:17:44 PM »
Yes, most of our energy experiences are “demand” oriented, we turn on a light
and the power is just there. But generators themselves need some kind of RPM
limiting control of the prime mover to keep them from over speeding when the
demand is not there for *all* their output. You definitely don’t want batteries
to begin bubbling electrolytically once they are fully charged by pumping in more
electrical energy. This has to do with the battery “state of charge controller”. You
may want to add a secondary microprocessor controller to balance out the
system loading by switching on lights or an extra resistive heater demand load,
the battery charge controller should at least tell you when it thinks your batteries
are fully charged.
 
One means of demand control could happen by turning the wind generators
out of the wind to them make them less mechanically efficient.
 
Siemens has some 12VDC power  inverters that are “utility interactive” that
actually let you gate excess power backward out to your utility connection.
This will run your electricity meter backward when you operate them in “naïve”
mode. But in general electrical utilities will want you to sign a contract if you
do this extensively or want it done formally.
 
Certain forward look states like California will let you gate power out to
them which they then meter differently from forward power demand and then
let you substitute one generated KW for one demand KW at the end of year
until your electrical bill for that year becomes zero. They generally won’t go into
their red with it. If you want you can also pay them 12-20 cents per KWH
electricity and then let them pay you 3 cents per KWH for yours as an
alternative.
 
So, your milage may vary.
 
 :S:MarkSCoffman

Offline TheOne

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 03:00:03 AM »
I don't plan to have a system to return the extra energy in the grid, here in QC in Canada its a little complicated and they are no real advantage to do that, my objective is to be able to disconnect from the grid, I am starting with the garage and with the experience made from the garage, I will continue on the house :)


I was looking for a controller similar to this: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/509681550/CM50A_12V_24V_48V_Solar_Charge.html?s=p


Its not the final one that I am looking for, but I try to figure out if I can do what I want with that or I need to make my own controller, not sure I want to do that but anyway..


I would like a Windmill connected to a controller, this controller charge the battery and when the battery is full, apply the extra load on a different connection so I can do what I want with it.


Maybe they are existing controller that already exist, its just I am not aware of it :)




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 03:00:03 AM »
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Offline Peanutbutter29

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 04:44:41 AM »
I might be able to offer some help as I've looked into these for....uh.. preparedness.  First though windmills have high maintenance and in a couple years will need to be brought down at least once.  Solar can be a bit more trouble free but less power density. 

Some basic general tips:
-Battery bank Whr should be 3 -5 times expected 24hr load.  This is to provide a buffer for the variation in output
-For wind mills you MUST run a shunt capable controller for over volt protection. 
-Best charge controllers for wind or solar are MPPT and Midnite solar is the best brand (also offers HV, good for wind)
-Finding good real output information for wind mills is hard.

-anything below 1KW is considered Micro and I issue caution.  The 600w pre-packaged, imported units (600ish) typically will net an average of 40w, yes 40w. 
-Alternator based designs often require high rpms for performance, which is not optimal.  The best is the lowest RPM possible
-All new and large wind mills (+1kw) use Axial flux generators.
-For optimal efficiency wind mill blades require variable pitch to optimize for wind speed (large units do this with electric motors) small units can only use prop flex.
- Bergey and Kestrel are the 2 top small windmill mfg's.  Bergey a 1Kw smallest and Kestrel 1-3Kw.

If your gonna make your own, build axial flux for lowest rpm per volt.  (Kv) An example that I ran through is a hybrid..... 1KW solar, 1Kw bergey wind mill, 60,000AHr batt bank (Trojan 5year solid plate, ftw!) @ 24-36v.  This will run 600w continuous per 24 hours.

Hope this helps,
Thanks

Offline TheOne

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 05:17:17 AM »
I might be able to offer some help as I've looked into these for....uh.. preparedness.  First though windmills have high maintenance and in a couple years will need to be brought down at least once.  Solar can be a bit more trouble free but less power density. 

Some basic general tips:
-Battery bank Whr should be 3 -5 times expected 24hr load.  This is to provide a buffer for the variation in output
-For wind mills you MUST run a shunt capable controller for over volt protection. 
-Best charge controllers for wind or solar are MPPT and Midnite solar is the best brand (also offers HV, good for wind)
-Finding good real output information for wind mills is hard.

-anything below 1KW is considered Micro and I issue caution.  The 600w pre-packaged, imported units (600ish) typically will net an average of 40w, yes 40w. 
-Alternator based designs often require high rpms for performance, which is not optimal.  The best is the lowest RPM possible
-All new and large wind mills (+1kw) use Axial flux generators.
-For optimal efficiency wind mill blades require variable pitch to optimize for wind speed (large units do this with electric motors) small units can only use prop flex.
- Bergey and Kestrel are the 2 top small windmill mfg's.  Bergey a 1Kw smallest and Kestrel 1-3Kw.

If your gonna make your own, build axial flux for lowest rpm per volt.  (Kv) An example that I ran through is a hybrid..... 1KW solar, 1Kw bergey wind mill, 60,000AHr batt bank (Trojan 5year solid plate, ftw!) @ 24-36v.  This will run 600w continuous per 24 hours.

Hope this helps,
Thanks


hi, thank you for your suggestions. I was thinking about this kind of wind turbine : http://uk.alibaba.com/product/523138231-WS-WT400W-wind-turbine-generator-12V.html


Also maybe making one similar to that using the energy-creator.com generator!


Since this wind turbine work with little wind, and since they are always wind where i want to put the generator, on the top of my old garage.


I don't need a lot of batteries for the garage, I have one battery right now but I looking to add more this summer, the heating that i want is mostly to be used only when the extra energy is about to be lost in the winter, not from the batteries, the batteries current will be for tools and light.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 05:17:17 AM »
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Offline Peanutbutter29

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 05:38:53 AM »
Ty for the link.  VAWT designs are probably the biggest flop for wind turbines as they don't intercept enough wind.  Most turbine will reach rated values in around 28-40mph wind and this is usually at 500rpm for all.  I'd stick with a horizontal upwind design with common tails.

If you'd like to make a generator, search some on axial flux generators and you can find a lot.  These are pretty easy (for motors) to build.  Found a good .pdf link about building and you can find others.  http://www.windenergy.nl/website/files/artikelen/AXIAL_FLUX_HowItWorks.pdf

You can generally find turbine fins pretty easy and cheap. They get ya' on the genie. You can also make a tail pretty easily too.

for batteries, if you use lead-acid (car batteries);  try to drain them as little as possible.  They are designed for 20% DoD max (depth of discharge) for best life. 

Oh also, there used to be DC motors used on old large Tape Reel machines.  These ranged from 24-90v and usually were @ 500rpm.   If you can dig up a DC motor like this somewhere;  your in business too!  The 90v @ 500rpm motor (considered the magic one) would give 250w on a properly designed will mill around 28mph wind.  The 90v motor, outputted I think; 24v loaded or 40v range open circuit. 

Thanks

Offline TheOne

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 06:15:36 AM »
Ty for the link.  VAWT designs are probably the biggest flop for wind turbines as they don't intercept enough wind.  Most turbine will reach rated values in around 28-40mph wind and this is usually at 500rpm for all.  I'd stick with a horizontal upwind design with common tails.

If you'd like to make a generator, search some on axial flux generators and you can find a lot.  These are pretty easy (for motors) to build.  Found a good .pdf link about building and you can find others.  http://www.windenergy.nl/website/files/artikelen/AXIAL_FLUX_HowItWorks.pdf

You can generally find turbine fins pretty easy and cheap. They get ya' on the genie. You can also make a tail pretty easily too.

for batteries, if you use lead-acid (car batteries);  try to drain them as little as possible.  They are designed for 20% DoD max (depth of discharge) for best life. 

Oh also, there used to be DC motors used on old large Tape Reel machines.  These ranged from 24-90v and usually were @ 500rpm.   If you can dig up a DC motor like this somewhere;  your in business too!  The 90v @ 500rpm motor (considered the magic one) would give 250w on a properly designed will mill around 28mph wind.  The 90v motor, outputted I think; 24v loaded or 40v range open circuit. 

Thanks



this kind of generator are big and cost more then the one from energy-creator.com, brian from this site have made some cool generator design specially for the use of wind turbine.


About the VAWT, Here a video of this kind of turbine in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Izd9r19QAE



They are another type, see this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=FYMZvnER0BQ&v=kOWGATlzSrM&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_135273

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 06:15:36 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline fritznien

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 06:20:38 AM »

hi, thank you for your suggestions. I was thinking about this kind of wind turbine : http://uk.alibaba.com/product/523138231-WS-WT400W-wind-turbine-generator-12V.html


Also maybe making one similar to that using the energy-creator.com generator!


Since this wind turbine work with little wind, and since they are always wind where i want to put the generator, on the top of my old garage.


I don't need a lot of batteries for the garage, I have one battery right now but I looking to add more this summer, the heating that i want is mostly to be used only when the extra energy is about to be lost in the winter, not from the batteries, the batteries current will be for tools and light.
how much wind do you have, you need 25 kilometer per hour wind to get 80 watts out of that.
there is also where your going to mount the thing, on the garage will transmit vibration to the structure and place the turbine in slower turbulant air.
putting a turbine on top of a 80 foot tower will double the power produced with less wear on the unit.
check out http://www.sunelec.com/air-breeze-land-p-205.html for comparasion.
fritznien


Offline TheOne

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 06:37:21 AM »

how much wind do you have, you need 25 kilometer per hour wind to get 80 watts out of that.
there is also where your going to mount the thing, on the garage will transmit vibration to the structure and place the turbine in slower turbulant air.
putting a turbine on top of a 80 foot tower will double the power produced with less wear on the unit.
check out http://www.sunelec.com/air-breeze-land-p-205.html for comparasion.
fritznien


I have an anemometer but the battery is dead, need to check the speed.


Thank for the link but on alibaba.com I can find wind turbine with 6 blades 400watts for 400$ shipping included!


I included a pic of my garage, I want to put it on top!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 06:37:21 AM »
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Offline TheOne

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 02:05:03 AM »
I finally end up buying this windmill, a very cheap 1600watts!! The only complain I can do about this one is she need more wind. But for the price, with shipping around 480$


1600W FIRE-BIRD 12 VOLT 10 BLADED HI-POWER WIND TURBINE GENERATORS HIGH AMPS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251041874532#ht_6960wt_1363


But I still want to build my own windmill this summer, a vertical one for low wind, that i will put near to ground...

[/b]

Offline mscoffman

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 09:03:30 PM »
The One,
Very interesting, looks like a great buy, please keeps us informed as
to how you are doing.
 
---
 
Also those PMA generators are a good deal too, you may want to try
driving an unbladed one with a 12/24VDC motor through a belt and dual
pulley. These are the things rotorverters can be made of, ie. free energy
output with no wind in. You might as well try it, as you have the goods. :)
 
:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 09:03:30 PM »
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Offline TheOne

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 11:47:59 PM »
The One,
Very interesting, looks like a great buy, please keeps us informed as
to how you are doing.
 
---
 
Also those PMA generators are a good deal too, you may want to try
driving an unbladed one with a 12/24VDC motor through a belt and dual
pulley. These are the things rotorverters can be made of, ie. free energy
output with no wind in. You might as well try it, as you have the goods. :)
 
:S:MarkSCoffman


Yes I will keep you updated.


RotoVerter, i saw that few years ago, I did not really understand the principle back, I just watched and read about it.
Seam something could to try lol, near home, someone selling 50 x 3 phases motors 600 volts (prob other voltage kind too) for 300$, i will call him tonight and try to get them for 200$ and experiment, if I have 50 motors lol, i will have a lot to experiment LOL

Offline TheOne

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Re: need advise for windmill system
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2012, 01:48:45 AM »
Now I have 55 3 phases motor, any suggestion to what todo with it? :) LOL


1x5hp
around 8x 3hp
around 2x 2hp
most of them are 1hp
some lower then 1hp




 

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