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Author Topic: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"  (Read 29072 times)

Offline goqo

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HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« on: April 13, 2012, 04:58:44 PM »
Hi everyone, my first message on forums:)

In my country, almost everyone uses gas fired boilers in their homes. And i was thinking that can we use HHO systems to feed a gas fired boiler... Natural gas prices are very very high here (prob most high in the world!!) so if we do this, people can get rid of the expensive gas...

I'm a beginner for hho systems. But i thought a plan like we can make kits that produce enought hho gas to feed boiler. In boiler automation it takes gas when the temp gets low. So we can make a system that starts electrolysis when it needs.. or manually start the process. Is this so complex? And i thought a water tank that feeds bubler to the cells...

Safety is only considered for HHO production. This is already known by us... Becouse boiler that we plan to use has own safety parts.

So what do you think? Is that feasible and can be produced? Waiting your answers...

Thanks:)
P.S.: Sorry for bad English.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« on: April 13, 2012, 04:58:44 PM »

Offline mscoffman

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 09:47:53 PM »
Making HHO gas via electrolysis is not in itself an overunity gain process.
But using an HHO LENR reactor in place of a boiler is overunity.
And of course there is a company; "Brillouin Energy" who is doing it.
 
http://brillouinenergy.com/
 
They plan to make LENR driven Boilers available eventually.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman
 

Offline goqo

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 10:51:40 PM »
Thank you for your answer.

First what is Lenr? i looked that website but this is different than i thought. why is my plan is not overunity?

Thank you...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 10:51:40 PM »
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Offline Mark69

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 05:00:13 PM »
LENR is a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction.  There are a few companies trying to make these for home use. 

I have also thought about what you are trying to do:use HHO in place of natural gas.  The problem is creating a large enough cell, most likely a dry cell, that will produce enough to run the heater.  I member named Bruno has made a drycell that separates the hydrogen from the oxygen.  This is a great idea and now you have better control/mixture possibilities.  Though the problem still is having to use an electolyte (KOH, for example) in the water to get the cell to produce better.  This can cause a bad situation that it could vent poisonous gas inside your home.  So you would need a ventilation system.   Also, the best idea would have the system create the hydrogen "on demand" therefore not needing a storage tank (another safety problem).  I don't know how much gas production would be needed based on the BTU of your heater, but it is probably more then the natural gas amount.  Nat. gas is at its lowest price in about 20 years here in the states.  If the LENR devices hit the market, the need for nat gas would go away as you can use that to heat your home and produce electricity.  I am in a "wait and see" position to see how successful and if these systems become available to the general public.
Mark

Offline Paul-R

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 04:20:53 PM »

 i was thinking that can we use HHO systems to feed a gas fired boiler...

Straight HHO is  FANTASTICALLY explosive.

It can be mixed with air so that the HHO mixture is no longer stochiometric,
but a failure to get this right will be dire.

A safer solution might be to feed the HHO into an internal combustion engine
with ignition duly retarded, and use this to generate electricity.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 04:20:53 PM »
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Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 06:29:34 PM »
...Straight HHO is  FANTASTICALLY explosive.
If by –Straight-  you mean stoichiometric, then shouldn't that term be implosive instead of explosive?
Thx
Mike

Offline Paul-R

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 10:42:27 PM »
If by –Straight-  you mean stoichiometric, then shouldn't that term be implosive instead of explosive?
Thx
Mike
Both.

It will explode with utmost ferocity (- the flame speed is supersonic,
and can blow the ear drums of anyone nearby).

If restrained (and it hasn't blown its restraints to pieces),
technically, the "steam" produced will condense, potentially
giving the conditions for implosion.

This stuff is a major league hazard. Serious people in the field,
like Bob Boyce and Patrick Kelly, are highly likely to advise that
the best way to use HHO is to generate it as needed and pump
it straight into an internal combustion engine.

HHO gives the opportunity to blow a wall out of a workshop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 10:42:27 PM »
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Offline goqo

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 10:36:31 AM »
I know about Hydrogen that can be really dangerous but also natural gas is dangerous as well. Boiler has its safety conditions already... what do you think??

Offline Paul-R

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 04:54:25 PM »
I know about Hydrogen that can be really dangerous but also natural gas is dangerous as well. Boiler has its safety conditions already... what do you think??
It is not hydrogen that is dangerous; it is hydroxy gas, HHO, a perfect
stochiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. That stuff is DEADLY.

Also, it is very unsafe to store it. It can spontaneously explode, or go off
in response to some sort of minor tap or bang.

Once it is no longer in its perfect mix, it is much safer. You could introduce air
or one of the constituent gases. But if the dilution process should fail for some
reason, you could find yourself standing before your creator.

If you do, I wonder if you could ask why the Universe is so damned complicated.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 04:54:25 PM »
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Offline goqo

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 05:38:09 PM »
It is not hydrogen that is dangerous; it is hydroxy gas, HHO, a perfect
stochiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. That stuff is DEADLY.

Also, it is very unsafe to store it. It can spontaneously explode, or go off
in response to some sort of minor tap or bang.

Once it is no longer in its perfect mix, it is much safer. You could introduce air
or one of the constituent gases. But if the dilution process should fail for some
reason, you could find yourself standing before your creator.

If you do, I wonder if you could ask why the Universe is so damned complicated.


:) understand. Hydroxy(HHO) that is used to increase mpg on car also... I do not plan to store hho or air-mixed hho or hydrogen only. I planned a on-demand system like we used on cars. After producing HHO we can mix it with air or seperate hyrdogen only like you and Mark said before. Also i want to say that there is KOH in water and yes it produce poisonous gas but Natural gas also produce poisonous gas and it goes out via exhoust. And i think the level of poisonous gas is very much lower than natural gas. So i think there is no such a huge safety condition difference between HHO(Air-mixed or seperated H) and Natural gas to fire a boiler. What do you think? Is that feasible?? Or anybody try or planned to do that??

Thanks all...

Offline kajeeva

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    • Contractor Management Software
How to Choose the Best Content Management System For Your Business
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 06:00:20 PM »
As we will discuss, it is no longer enough to just create a lean supply chain. You must look further into supplier management and supplier performance to maximize value, reduce risks, and associated costs.

Creating an effective supplier management system involves more than cost cutting alone. It's wider-reaching than simply effectively sourcing, and requires that you monitor and measure the performance of your suppliers.

A Global Supply Chain We are doing business in a world that is increasingly reliant on a global supply chain, and supplier performance must be effectively calculated and evaluated for efficiency. Global trading options are certainly not getting any smaller, and with countries like China and Russia rapidly expanding their footprint in the free market economy, supplier performance and supplier management are reaching a critical point.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

How to Choose the Best Content Management System For Your Business
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 06:00:20 PM »
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Offline hallo

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 06:36:52 PM »
Please post links where one can buy natural gas powered boilers that can be easily modified to
run on Hydrogen gas only ! Kits would be great !
Many thanks !

Offline Mark69

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 03:57:41 PM »
It can be done, just takes some experimenting.  This is where Myers brother was working on until everything went bad.  I have seen videos (youtube and on this site) of people converting propane stoves to hydrogen.  Basically they changed the size of the output orifices to, I believe, a smaller size as you don't need as much H as propane.  Also, you have to make sure you have a flame spark arrest device that is different as the one member said, the flame speed is so much faster with H.  This is where I would start if I was trying to make this work.  Once you get it to work with a propane stove (or grill) you should have half the battle complete.  Then the next step would be to be able to supply enough H to run the house furnace and make a system for on demand flow to the heater.  If you had an old furnace, start with that.  I think a couple of dry cells would be enough to produce H for a furnace.  The member Bruno (something close to that, if you search my posts, I have links to his site also in one of his threads we talk back and forth) makes them with the nylon separator, so I would probably talk to him for guidance. 

If you decide to try this, please post your steps so we can learn and/or help you along the way.  Pics and videos are always great!

Mark

Offline mscoffman

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 09:37:55 PM »
First not all electrolytes added to water to decrease it's electical resistivity
produces noxious fumes. Some do. For example salt as in salt-water in NaCl.
If two Sodium Na atoms get together you simply get solid sodium metal particles
Na+Na in solution, but when two chlorine Cl atoms come together you get Cl^2,
noxious chlorine gas. The same thing probably happens with Sodium Bicarbonate
and the production of carbon dioxide. on the otherhand while KOH is itself
noxious lye, often described as an acid but is actually high basic, don't spatter
it, but its electrolysis reaction components are not noxious gases. K^2 is
potassium metal which stays in solution and the OH combines with the H from
water to produce H2O. Generally there is a water washing stage at the output
which gas is put through to make sure *no* KOH electrolyte splatter passes a
given point. You have to be careful because HCN is cyanide and yet nitrogen
N atoms can be gotten from the air.
 
So you have to be a chemist to decide whether the extra gas produced from
the electrolyte of the electrolsis reaction in water is noxious or not.
 
---
 
Most likely, if your HC hydrocarbon fuel is highpriced, your electricity
is highpriced also. So only if your electricity is abnormally low priced
would if be cost effective to use hydrogen as a fuel. On earth, hydrogen
is a mobile carrier energy source, not a prime energy source like oil. Hydrogen
needs to be made from something else with some other energy source.
 
Only if you have a source of energy gain (and most likely the gain has a
LENR source at it's base) would it make sense to do what you saying. There
is informal LENR like Myers was probably using, or other forms of more formal
scientific LENR. But in general the law of conservation of energy applies as to
why you cannot make extra energy without having some sort of gain unit.
LENR energy is overunity only if you don't know where it comes from our don't
want to admit that LENR exists.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman
 

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: HHO and "Gas fired boiler"
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 03:48:10 PM »
Hydrogen is a base atomic structure,
it WILL sublimate ANY other material
if mixed with an oxider into a flame,
and put it in direct contact with the flame.

The only way around this is expose a material
to a smaller flame the material can safely convert
into a lower frequency near-IR emmision for use.

The direct flame of HHO, before it interacts with anything,
is not really that hot at all, most of us already know this
from passing our hand quickly through our torch's flame...

Like most current heaters, a method of heat exchange
is the only practical and efficient method to harvest heat.

Crystaline structure rock is awesome for this task,
it doesn't phase-change upon exposure directly,
(Meaning it doesn't directly sublimate upon exposure)
if exposed to smaller amounts of flame it can convert instead,
it comes in tubes and slabs to implement into heat exchangers,
and in the direct sense of generating true near-IR band heat,
natural crystalline stone is the best conversion media available !

Goggle if you don't know what I mean,
don't ask me to refer you to something...

Make really little "hole-in-a-slab" radiant heaters for personal use,
I would use a 15 to 17 watt flame maximum for modeling the supply...

HHO (Such a misnomer...) creates what it creates as output,
usage of it either utilizes the the exposed media as consumable,
(sublimates it into a gaseous or liquid state at a predictable rate)
or interacts with it as an energy conversion media as I suggest here.

Stone is key, test all locally available, WEAR A MASK,
but please pre-fire the winner three weeks OUTSIDE !
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 03:48:52 AM by CompuTutor »

 

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