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Author Topic: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel  (Read 49689 times)

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2012, 04:53:07 PM »
Johnny, you can save yourself a lot of work & grief if you watch the Video below.
 
They have several examples of working units that you want to build.
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=287qd4uI7-E&feature=channel&list=UL
 
 
.

  FatBird,
 I did watch the video. So far in the few years I have spent trying to understand Bessler, I haven't
seen anything like this. it's okay if it doesn't work, it is my hobby  :D
 I could waste more money on something that I would find less interesting. And if it works, then
it'll be the coolest pm device on the net  8)
 Bessler did leave an explanation of how some of it worked in his drawings. He used both word clues and
pictographs (I think that's what they're called). You know, obvious picture clues. But like the quote
Chris Wells posted, it takes understanding how many of his drawings work together. It does take quite
a few of them, not just 3 or 4, but a lot more.
 In understanding how his mechanics work, Mt's 20 and 24 I think are a good start. But to consider how
pumping a fluid can maintain a constant imbalance, that would be Mt's 66 and 67. One of them actually
shows a piston on a shaft. And it has a cylinder around the piston. He understood at least some principles
of hydraulic theory.
 With Mt 20, the quote he gives lets someone know how to reconfigure that wheel so it can "lift" his special
weight. Considering he showed in his drawings that he understood that fluids could be pumped, I believe
his special weight is a fluid of some type. What he actually used will probably never be known.
 What is missed about Mt 20 is that if the rotation of the short lever is reversed, it would press against the
outside of the wheel. In other drawings, he references a channel going around the outside of the wheel with
a weight in it. I think when considering Mt's 26 and 27  that in Mt 27, E is a weight wheel but not one that rolls.
 Hold it, a curved board that is shaped like the wheel could be considered in the same vein, a rolling weight. It
would have the appearance of rolling around on the inside of the wheel. And if the fluid is in a channel (tube),
it would be pumped because of compression. Also, Mt 67 shows "bellows" around the outside of the wheel.
 Putting the 2 concepts together allows for an ingenious thought. It might take some time for it to sink in to the
point where everyone can understand it. But in learning to understand something new does take time.
  I think one of the reasons why he used so many drawings to "hide" his design is that he wanted someone
willing to take the time to learn his engineering and to make it difficult for someone to find, you know, not let
someone find it who might not appreciate what he (Bessler) knew. I think this is something that is important
to him that someone has respect for his work while making it known. This would go to his using the name
Orrfyreus which is a reference to the Lyre of Orpheus. In mythology, Hermes invented the lyre but it was
Orpheus who made it sing. Everyone has considered Bessler to have Latinized his name because they asked
him in his time if he thought he was Orpheus to which he correctly answered no. You see, he would be
Hermes and I would be Orpheus. And why would i be Orpheus ? Because I will be the one makes his wheel sing.
 This will not just be building a working model. It will be relating Bessler's intelligence, understanding the history
that he has surrounded it with and those things he saw which inspired him. Also, I think all those things in his
drawings where he is referencing things and yet those references are consider to be workable when they are not.
 One thing I have thought of is that I will not make everything known. I will leave some things for people to
wonder about to so there will always be a little mystery and intrigue in the works of Johann Bessler.
 By the way, I'll need to stay with the 40 inch radius I've been planning on building. With a smaller wheel, while
it can be tempting wouldactually prove to be a more difficult first build.
 
                                                                                                                  Johnny
 
http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Portal:MT#Drawings
 
p.s. a drawing of how I outline the basic wheel. I break it down into 8 - 45 degree sections (8x45=360).
 Then I break down a 45 degree section into 2 - 22.5 degree sections (22.5x2=45). This allows me to know
how much space the part will occupy and what the size of material I will need. And by taping the 8 sections
together, I can test fit them to make sure they all fit together (mate) so when the parts are routed, they will
all fit together to make a nice inner and outer rings to support the warped boards.
 This part is called design engineering. The concept of fitting form to function. The working wheel would be
mechanical engineering, building it and keeping it working. Different disciplines.  :D  Engineering might not
be the most popular hobby but I like it. And who knows, maybe I'll end up with a family. You know, people
cause me problems because of my hearing loss and I come up with a response like this while going through
all my medical issues. I just wonder if I have any sanity left. I do, but I'm not the same person I was a few years ago.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                   
edited to run spell check

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2012, 04:53:07 PM »

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2012, 05:35:34 PM »
   @All,
  This is the wood I will be using for the inner and outer rings. Each 8 foot section will
make 6 inner and outer pieces. A total of 16 will be needed. Will make some extra parts
in case I make mistakes, have problems but will need some pieces for setting up jigs or
fixtures I will be using to make the parts with.
 This will allow me to make all the parts one after another using a mass production method
as all 8 sections of the wheel will be the same. Between now and next week, I will be
making the tooling I'll be needing. This will include an adjustable radius tool for my router
and a jig for making somewhat precise 22.5 degree cuts on 2 sections at the same time. By
sawing to boards (mating end to end) at the same time, they should fit to from a 45 degree
angle which is what will be of more importance than if the angle of cut is off by a few degrees.
 As i get into the build, I will explain in ore detail some of the things I'll eb doing to ensure a strong enough structure to support the work load.
 
                                                                                                       Johnny
 
http://www.lowes.com/pd_1093-99899-08457_0__?productId=3602588&Ntt=1+x+6+x+8+poplar&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3D1%2Bx%2B6%2Bx%2B8%2Bpoplar&facetInfo=

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2012, 02:34:34 AM »
   @All,
 One concern I have about openly posting my work on Bessler is someone like mrwayne building it. This because he would say what a favor he is doing me.
 The truth is he claims to have spent over 40,000 dollars on something without spending a couple of hundred dollars to make sure it works first.
 And now ? And now he is missing the attention he thought he should have.
 May need to build off line.

Jim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2012, 02:34:34 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2012, 02:52:22 PM »
But I thought MrWayne already had a working, self-powered prototype? Why should he want to build your idea when he's got that groaning hydraulic thing self-powering itself and lighting up lights and everything?

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Offline FatBird

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2012, 01:00:39 AM »
Good points Jim.

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2012, 01:00:39 AM »
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Offline maw2432

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2012, 10:55:05 PM »
Hi all,
I think a Bessler wheel working will require a special understanding of how levers work.
Bill
 

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2012, 06:26:46 PM »
But I thought MrWayne already had a working, self-powered prototype? Why should he want to build your idea when he's got that groaning hydraulic thing self-powering itself and lighting up lights and everything?

  TK,
 try pumping water through a funnel. it creates  a lot of back pressure.
@Bill, I might be able to do a simple demonstration of a water pump. It would be using a bellow.
If they can pump air, they can pump water. that is a part of as you put it so well, was his special understanding
of levers  ;)
 
                                                                                                            Jim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2012, 06:26:46 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2012, 07:58:13 PM »
Hi all,
I think a Bessler wheel working will require a special understanding of how levers work.
Bill

  Bill,
 This is the understanding I've been working from. With this example, a wheel could be an octagon.
 This is because it would have 8 sections. This would coincide with Bessler saying he used 8 weights.
 As anyone knows, weighted levers can't produce an over balance. What you gain on one side, you lose
on the other. It seems what Bessler might have realized is the empty space they have on the way down.
 If a bellow were placed in this spot, then it might provide free energy. Where I drew the black lines in,
is a pivot point that could allow the bellows to close completely or close to it. This is something basic.
 Still, the 8 sections all need to be equal lengths and everything needs to be square. But I thnk everyone
might understand the idea behind this. If the lever is twice the length of the bellow, then it can perform
twice the work it's weight allows for. And of course, as the wheel rotates, the levers fall in toward center.
 This means they won't interfere with the water being pumped up. If so, then work would be lost in moving
them.
 
                                                                                                                      Jim
 
edited to add;
p.s. the weight near bottom would try to stay under it's fulcrum so it would already be pumping water up even higher.

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2012, 10:31:07 PM »
   @All,
  A little explanation of compression pumping in the video I an posting a link to.
 One thing that it might help to understand is that the wider the bellows opens, the
lower the water will sit in the pump. This would require a lot more work to perform
the same function.
 I'll see about making a simple demo that shows how a basic wheel could be built. And
it would show everything a bit better. What some people mind find disappointing is I
will limit how much water is used. And with how I showed the bellows could be
configured to close completely in the drawing I posted, I'll show how that arrangement
can be used the same way as the digram I posted for a hydraulic floor jack, and we all
know how well those work. Hmm, I already posted how, oops  :o
 Not sure if anyone else will be interested in trying this (what I've posted). But a miter
saw, a couple clamps, wood glue, plastic and glue for the plastic might cost $30 unless
you already have some tools. What you might find in trying it that you would have the
skill sets needed to build a Bessler type wheel. You might actually like it, just maybe.
 Will give ya'all some time to think about it. While doing that, I'll build the demo and
then anyone who likes Bessler or perpetual wheels can give it a try if they like.
 
                                                                                                          Jim
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aTHQGRlwDs&feature=youtu.be

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2012, 10:31:07 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2012, 09:57:43 PM »
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h33LqXPCdV4o_3dF5bIJ_s
 
edited to change videos, will be working off line. it is a lot of work to develop a workable concept.
 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 12:30:11 AM by johnny874 »

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2012, 05:36:27 PM »
  @All,
 Since I know I'll be having surgery June 25th, might do a little work between now and then.
With the basic pump I've built, I can make some improvements to it like using bushing and
making the lever adjustable. This would let me do some developmental work, in simpler terms,
I'd have a better idea of what I'll need to do to get decent rotation out of the wheel.
 Kind of like where rubber meets the road. This would be quite mportant. I have spent a lot
of time working on how to build it, and this would let me know how the mechanics would
need to work.
 
                                                                                Jim

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2012, 05:36:27 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2012, 11:21:32 PM »
  I've added notations to some of my videos as well as adding this one.
 A simple way to build a round wheel and why it will work. I will be improving
the pump I built. While it will work better, it won't mean much unless building
a wheel of this type is something you plan on doing.
 I have realized I will need to build 2 wheels. One about 20 inches in diameter
and the 40 inch diameter wheel I've been pursuing. The smaller wheel will be
good for working on my build technique and understanding the realities of getting
this type of invention to work.
 I have sent a link to my channel to John Collins and rlortie. I think they will take
a passive interest to be safe after wht has been said about me pursuing this work.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M03AdemQRtU&feature=youtu.be
edited; made a new video                                                                         
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 01:39:42 AM by johnny874 »

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2012, 05:16:48 AM »
think i will start dismantling mx shop tomorrow.
can always build later on.

    Bye

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2012, 04:40:57 PM »
   @All,
 The outline in the attachment will show some basic relationships which need
to be understood. This is where the math I posted in m*d/t is helpful.
 Using 1kg/9,8newtons of force as the base line for calculations, an understanding
of it's potential can be had.
 If a mass of 1kg is needed to be moved, what needs to be remembered is that gravity
will be exerting 9.8 newtons of negative force. This would mean the weight on the lever
needs to account for this. With the dimensions in the diagram, a ratio of 6:3.75 is shown,
a ratio of 1.6:1. With this ratio,  a weight with 1.6 times the mass would have equal force
or potential. To lift it at 1/4 or .25 the speed of gravity or 2.7 m/s, a potential of 24 Newtons
plus the 9.8 Newtons acting against it for a total of 33.8 Newtons. This translates into a weight
with 2.15 times the mass of what is to be moved.
 Resistance would rob the system of some energy but this would be able to be accounted for by
doing basic testing.
 In reality, someone with a drill and a jig saw could probably build on of these.
 
                                                                                                          Jim
p.s. the calculations are for 1kg. This is because 9.8 Newtons are the negative force which
is based on 1kg. For .5 or 1/2kg, then 4.9 Newtons would be the negative potential. Also,
the acceleration for the mass being lifted is based on 1kg. With 1/2 or .5kg mass, it would be
12 instead of 24. It would take someone a little practice to understand how to calculate what
weight would ne needed to try to obtain a specific result.
 Then the next step would be to see if the engineering would allow for the mass of water or fluid.
Development of an idea is a step by step process, even one like Bessler's. reverse engineering is
not the simplest thing.
 

Offline KanShi

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2012, 11:36:39 AM »
You may already know about it but you could download a free physics simulator and see some of your ideas in action (like Algodoo or OECake) before you actually build them. Those simulators are pretty basic and inaccurate (compared to professional software) but it's better than nothing, right?

 

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