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Author Topic: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel  (Read 49685 times)

Offline johnny874

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How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« on: April 06, 2012, 07:46:42 PM »
   @All,
 I will be open sourcing what I believe to be a simple and somewhat easy way of building a Bessler type wheel.
The reason I consider to be a Bessler type of wheel is it will be based solely on his drawings. As it is built if
people believe that certain of his statements or witnesses descriptions relate to it, that is for them to consider.
 What I will be demonstrating is not only the mechanics, the math but also one way it can be done. There are
different ways of fabricating things, I will be showing a way that is something that will work for me. This will
include what tools I use, how I use them and even how I will build my fixtures.
 By sharing such information open and freely, this will allow anyone interested in Bessler or this type of build
to be able to do so without needing a background in engineering, machining or manufacturing.
 As a result, I will also be posting the math behind how I have chosen to layout my fixtures and build processes.
 With this type of build, a familiarity with trigonometry is helpful. And even without this, using an online trig
calculator and referencing a trigonometry table will be helpful. I use them myself.
 The first step with this type of build is knowing how to layout 8 sections to form a hectagon. This will allow for
the routing of a board warping fixture, for supports and curved parts. To understand this, it is necessary to remeber
that a circular has 8 45 degree sections. And each section has 2 - 22.5 degree sections. This is important because as
the wheel curves, the distance from center of a 45 degree section will be more than either end.
 In the attached drawing, there is a straight line from 90 to 135 degrees. at midpoint, it is 112.5 degrees. When doing
a laying out like this, you can see where the depth of the radius in the board will matter. And by knowing this, the fixture
can be built to both rout the outer support parts as well as the board warping fixture.
 I will be using 4x4's as they are inexpensive which will help to keep costs down as well as offer a lot of support for the
work that will be accomplished.
 
                                                                                                                                             Jim
 
edited to add picture, have to redo it later, empty file for some reason.

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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 01:17:14 PM »
  Tonight I'll buy the cutter / bit I need and a 4x4 and see if it is something I can do. If so, I'll post a picture tomorrow.
 Power supply is a bit of a concern. Just figuring the gauge of wiring might not carry enough current
to operate the router properly.
 If so, then on Wednesday I would be able to start preparing to build the board warping fixture. It is the most
important part of pursuing this type of build.

                                                                                                                    Jim                             

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 01:29:38 PM »
Great initiative.

There is a problem with the layout you have attached: I cannot access it. (It downloads as 0 bytes)

Thanks.

Edit: ah just saw you had trouble attaching it.

Once you have your schematics I´ll try and make a WorkingModel.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 01:29:38 PM »
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Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 01:38:39 PM »
I support you Jim  :) Wish you to overcome any problems you can meet. And yes, I confirm your attachment downloads as O bits file...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 06:09:26 PM »
Great initiative.

There is a problem with the layout you have attached: I cannot access it. (It downloads as 0 bytes)

Thanks.

Edit: ah just saw you had trouble attaching it.

Once you have your schematics I´ll try and make a WorkingModel.

  A-Z,
 I'll see what I can do about a schematic. I think something that would show even the basic behavior might help to understand what I'm working on and believe Bessler did.
 If you look in the thread Christ started called Bessler's Brilliant Machine, you'll see where I posted 2 drawings.
If you can understand those mechanics, then the modifications I made will be easier to understand.

  @Raphael, thanks. I'm thinking I can rent a generator which would ensure I have the necessary power supply. at least for routing anyway. The router is 10 amps and everything else is 3.
 If I go that route, then Sunday I would be doing what I can to get the warped board fixture built and ready for routing.

                                                                                                                                 Jim

edited to add; A-Z, they say Bessler had one wheel that made 8 knocking sounds per revolution. With Mt's 66 & 67, if the lever lands on the hub when the lever is moving upwards and on the way down, if it is pushing a curved board against a round board circling the wheel, that would be something that people might understand.
 If you can help with something like this, I know I'll appreciate it   :)

edited to add; Auqa, I know it can be a lot of work doing a simulation. What might be a good idea is to do a basic one and see if it is something that you're interested in. It might not be. Tonight when I get home, I'll post what might be something simple that might help everyone to understand what I'm working on.

                                                                                                                                               Jim
 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 09:24:46 PM by johnny874 »

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 06:09:26 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2012, 12:59:12 AM »
Great initiative.

There is a problem with the layout you have attached: I cannot access it. (It downloads as 0 bytes)

Thanks.

Edit: ah just saw you had trouble attaching it.

Once you have your schematics I´ll try and make a WorkingModel.

    AquariuZ,
 Do you think you could make something like the attached pic ? Even with only two levers, I think it would help.
The lever on top left would fall and hit the hub. The one on the bottom right would drop and close the pump.
 What I'll be building will actually have a tube running all the way around the wheel. And when each section
closes, it will pump water or other fluid upwards.
 With this design, the 8 knocks people heard would be possible. And with a different lever performing work, then
how the wheel could maintain it's imbalance might be understood. I have had difficulty trying to explain tis idea,
anything you do would be much appreciated.
 
                                                                                                                                   Jim

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2012, 04:14:20 AM »
@alk.
on wednesday I wijl upload some drawings I have done.
 The last one will be what the first pic should have been.
 What I posted maintains the link with Bessler.

                  Jim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2012, 04:14:20 AM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2012, 10:08:46 AM »
Hi John,

I prefer to wait until wednesday until I have a clearer picture of what you are trying to achieve.

I like the idea of a fluid being pumped, but that begs the questions:

Do you think Bessler used fluids? Pumps? How about springs?

I´ve spent many a day and night on WM models that looked promising but in the end turned out not to work in real world due to friction issues. (Like Abeling most likely - that´s why in the end he wanted to use a completely glass structure).

It´s always friction.

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2012, 06:24:14 PM »
Hi John,

I prefer to wait until wednesday until I have a clearer picture of what you are trying to achieve.

I like the idea of a fluid being pumped, but that begs the questions:

Do you think Bessler used fluids? Pumps? How about springs?

I´ve spent many a day and night on WM models that looked promising but in the end turned out not to work in real world due to friction issues. (Like Abeling most likely - that´s why in the end he wanted to use a completely glass structure).

It´s always friction.

    AquariuZ,
  This is the basic mechanics I'll be using. If a lever has a 5:1 ratio, then a
1 pound weight will generate 5 pounds of force (capable of moving 5 pounds).
 If the water or fluid being pumped weighs 1 or 2 pounds, then obviously there
is / should be extra force.
 What I like about it is where the extra weight (water or other fluid) is. It would
always be where it creates the most force, on the outside of the wheel.
  This would mean that 1 pound of water if it is 2 feet from the center of the
wheel would have 2 foot pounds of torque. And as an example, if a wheel weighs
20 pounds, would it be sufficient force to rotate the wheel ?
 Spelled everything out for people not familiar with SAE standards.
 
 Back to your questions AquaZ, I think something like this has a lot of potential
and in one of Bessler's drawings, he showed an Archimedes pump. Pictograph ?
Maybe.
 With springs, Webby1 came up with an idea I like. The way he used springs was
to maintain tension. That is something that could help the movement be more
precise like in a pendulum clock.
 
                                                                      Jim
 
edited to add; the second drawing shows about where the fluid would be. Between the
moveable inner boards and the moveable outer boards.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 11:15:58 PM by johnny874 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2012, 06:24:14 PM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2012, 11:40:19 PM »
Jim,

It looks rather complicated (as in: I do not get it).

I´m looking into something with clutches right now which might interest you.

This has been bugging me for days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODf49HtCNj0

What do you think?

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2012, 03:14:56 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2012, 03:14:56 AM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 04:48:20 PM »
  have order some material to work with. it will let me know what i'm working with.
 it will be boring. you know, actually building something  :o
 have an idea what it will look like but will take time to make it happen. if things had gio ne better for me (not being discriminated against for my hearing loss), could've enjoyed it more.
 but fortunately for me, i thought trying to work around a problem (other people's perception of me) was better than giving in. of course, my own family should have known better but they didn't.
doubt i'll make june 6th but that's not as important as making a good go of it.
if people like alan and chris weren't so out spoken, might've got ralph to try it. but then, he'd probably take credit for realizing it's potential. and if he couldn't do that, then things would be pretty much the same but without experts who show nothing.
 of course, to convert gravity, the wheel i'm working on would be converting the potential force of one mass into the angular momentum of another. if engineering allows for it then nothing in physics is being violated.
 have realized one aspect that does seem to have been over looked by everyone and that is that force is f = m(a+1). And that is if velocity is zero. of course, Newton realized that about a body at rest but not one in motion. as to liebniz, he might have improperly realized this as mv^2. of course, it can have 2 meanings. in simple objects like a car being driven, the f=m(a+1) might apply while with something travelling much faster, then mv^2 would apply. an example of this would be a meteor or an asteroid.
 it has been observed that thresholds in velocity can change the harmonics of a mass. a basic example is a steam turbine engine. it can have 2 or 3 different thresholds where the harmonics change. where that is an accepted engineering principle, not sure why the same principle couldn't apply to matter.

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 01:27:20 PM »
  Kind of funny, I'm doing this now because I know how to do it. But as AB Hammer said, he is my teacher.
Could be why it's become a dead subject. Of course, the metal he works with is cold and dead just like the metal my father worked with. And one day, AB will teach my dad engineering to show what a generous person he is.
 Kind of why I don't like Christians, they can't stand to see someone do something.
 Of course, when my dad asked me about doing what can't be done and told me my life will be better when I become an immigrant makes me believe he knew about Bessler. He is quite knowledgeable about obscure facts.
 Did have a good life but people were jealous. Guess a willingness to learn and work towards something is unAmerican. Of course, this isn't what I wanted in my life as there are much better things and when someone has an absence of life, it kind of suggests that there is nothing difficult about it if a person has the time to consider something.

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2012, 04:23:59 PM »
@ all,
wont bore you guys anymore with the details of work.
what everyone misses is how much overbalance does it take to lift 70 lbs.  the answer should be obvious.
 something like doing 4x the work.

Offline truesearch

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 04:42:38 PM »
@johnny874:

Hey, keep the rest of us posted with your progress! I'm interested in what you make work.

truesearch

 

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