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Author Topic: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel  (Read 48923 times)

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2012, 12:18:31 AM »

truesearch,


I just heard from johnny874 that he is having trouble for some reason posting and he asked me to let you know.

  Thanx Webby1   :D
@All, this drawing is something I thought of a while ago. It's Mt 24. And while the levers never move to the outside
of the wheel, it's not really necessary. Mt 20 shows it better. And the quote by Bessler I think is one of the most important clues.
 It's like I mentioned to Webby1, that by using leverage, a 1 lb. weight can pump 1 1/2 to twice it's own weight. And with what I am
working on, that is 20r*2*3.142/8 = about 15 1/2 inches. The last number is the lift of the weight. And the drop of the 1 lb. weight ?
 Using a 4:1 ratio for leverage, it could be as little as 3/8 * 4 = 12/8 or 1 1/2 inches.
  And if you divide the 15 1/2 by 1 1/2, that's a ratio of  10 inches of lift for every inch a weight drops. And the weight being lifted is
also heavier. Of course, if you don't like math, then this is something that would never be.
 Myself, have used rotary tools and tried this. and now I have a router, a drill press, and an 18volt circular saw and drill. Much better
prepared. I am hoping to build the main fixture this weekend. If so, then the following weekend I should be able to start amking parts.
I still want to buy a generator to ensure proper power supply for the router.
 The quote by Bessler on Mt 20 "No. 20: Here the previous levers work somewhat more peculiarly and raise up special weights and turn outward to the over balance. For this reason side A is always heavier, my friend supposed but I denied. I then reminded him to harness the horse in front."
 What is interesting is if the short levers rotate in the counter clockwise direction, one would be lifted as another drops. What is more interesting is the reference to "special" weights. If the weights are soild masses like any other, then what would be special about them ?
                                                                             

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2012, 12:18:31 AM »

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 03:51:04 PM »
  @All,
 I may modify the build process I was planning on using.
Having experience with precision manufacturing, it is something I would like
to carry over in my build. What I do understand is that I can simplify the process.
 This would hurt the quality of the build. To most, it might not be noticeable, but
I would know it. There are some things I have learned when i was trained on CATIA.
It's a design engineering program that would be Cad 3D on steroids. And something
Bessler might have realized also as a way of making things easier for himself.
 Since the wheel is composed of 8 identical sections, the parts can be manufactured
using parts made one after another using the same process. Then later, they can be
assembled with other parts to make what are called sub-assemblies. The wheel as a
whole would be consider a final assembly. And each group of parts that are assembled
together such as each weight and lever or pump and lever would be different sub-assemblies.
 And using this concept might be the best way to go for the initial umpteenth build.
 I have tried various build processes using rotary tools which is why I have purchased the
necessary equipment to work to a better standard.
  It is interesting to think about, if Bessler realised the same thing, then he might have been
able to invent aspects of mass production well before anyone else would have thought of it.
This would be as I mentioned, his wheels would have had repeating sections which would
have benefitted from being made using modern manufacturing techniques. It is a possibility.
  If I use thie alternate build method, then maybe next week i'll be able to post some pics.
It is something that most will find boring until they see it all start coming together. And it
might be this that helps everyone to understand how the mechanics work to ensure a balanced
imbalance is maintaned.
 
                                                                                                Jim

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 08:57:09 PM »
   @All,
 Yep, am modifying the build process. have thought of what might be the best way to go about it without a full shop to work out of, maybe one day if I continue past this build.
 Here are some pics of what I got done to day and what my shop looks like. I have 1/4 inch oak plywood I'm gluing together to make a radial router compass. This will allow me to do nice, neat radii  8)
 The first pic is a drill jig. I still need to drill a hole in it. This will allow me to use locating pins in the boards I will be routing. This will allow everything to be as precise as possible and hopefully will ensure a better mating of the parts.
 The 2nd pic is the routing fixture. I still need to add a few pieces to it to accommodate travel of the router past the board being routed.
 Tomorrow I'll make the saw jig. it will allow me to use my circular saw to cut the boards to precise lengths and angles.
 By taking the time to make these extra tools, in the end, I will save time and should be able to do a much better build. And if all works out, it might become a standard for other people who might wish to build this type of will as it will help to keep costs low.
 
                                                                                             Jim

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 08:57:09 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2012, 09:39:55 PM »
@ all,
have tn
 hold up a while.
need to buy a table router.
Only one way to build. and this worth doing it right.

   Jim

Offline christo4_99

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2012, 04:16:50 AM »
You can bolt your router ( with the plate taken off ) to a 2" X 1/4"  X 3' piece of white wood with a hole drilled in it if you need to cut  a circle of less than 6' .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2012, 04:16:50 AM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2012, 09:28:27 PM »
You can bolt your router ( with the plate taken off ) to a 2" X 1/4"  X 3' piece of white wood with a hole drilled in it if you need to cut  a circle of less than 6' .

  Chris,
 I talked to a friend of mine here at work about building a table.
What I've decided is with how much there is to this build, I would be
better off waiting and buying a router table.
 The first thing I need to rout is a slot so I can make an adjustable radius
tool for my router. Some of the parts will need 3 or 4 different cuts made.
After that, it will be the assembly fixture. Of course, there are also the levers
and the edging on the stand.

                                                                                    Jim

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2012, 12:15:25 AM »
   @All,
 By waiting, I'll also be able to purchase a miter saw which will be helpful.
I think when all is said and done, everyone will be glad I took the long road.
 With this build, I am letting it dictate what I need to do. It is a rare opportunity.
 As such, the work I do, if successful, will also be a reflection on Bessler and
his work. This is something I am mindful of. It would be like saying I have a
God given ability to understand certain principles in math and then to leave it
all behind for haste. Yet some say a person should make good use of thier God
given gifts. It has taken much time for me to learn things that would help me to
do this. I hope the work I demonstrate shows my commitment to my own life
and values how ever messed up I might be as a person.
 Also, since I live in Appalachia, some of that might show up in some of the
accessories I build to work with. When I can, I will show them  :D
 
                                                                                      Jim
 
edited to add; I have made John Collins aware of my attempt and will be respectful
of the efforts he has put forth to make Bessler's work known. Still, I am working
independently and of course, this means on my own and by my own means.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 01:38:14 AM by johnny874 »

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2012, 12:15:25 AM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2012, 01:12:17 PM »
   @All,
 This weekend, I'll start work on parts. I might be able to
post a pic of the moveable part of the pump. While it might
look interesting, when you see how it works with the wheel,
I think you'll get it.
 What this will do is help anyone who might try a build like this
to understand this build process and will know what to expect.

                                                                                 Jim

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2012, 05:27:50 PM »
  @All,
Since I will be having surgery again on the 18th, I probably wont get much done before then.
 I.ll be able to have a lot of the things I,ll need to do worked out.
 I  watched woodsmithshop on pbs. Got me thinking I could get more use out of a table saw than I woud with a miter saw.
 The shows put out a lot of good info.

        Jim

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2012, 05:27:50 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2012, 06:29:23 PM »
    @All,
 With surgery coming up Friday morning, I am going to rest.
My personal health just as anyone else's is a bit more important than a working pm device.
 I will proceed a bit differently with my build when I am able to get back to it.
I'll show my work but not my processes. A part of the reason for this is people might say what an easy accomplishment it is if they are given all of the answers.
 Still, what I will be able to show I think everyone will find interesting and when completed even more so.
 What I do like about this is being able to recreate a part of history. I find it interesting myself. I think one thing Bessler's invention could have done which has been over looked is running water could have been provided to people's homes who lived in cities. It could have supported a more modern system than people such as the Indus River valley people of India did about 4,000 years ago. Could you have imagined a garvity fed system similar to what we use today ? Today, pumps are used to fill those water towers you see. Then gravity feeds the water to people's homes. This allows them to use several pumps to maintain the static head.
 As such, his invention could have powered water wheels by pumping water up to a reservoir and having it flow down into a basin. It would have allowed for mills to be built where they wanted one. It might be the people around him just thought of money and not any advancement it could bring about in society. Such is history.
 
                                                                           Jim
 
edited to reference Bessler (him) in the 2nd to last sentence

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2012, 08:24:43 PM »
  Saw a used table saw today. will buy it Monday if they can hold it for a couple of weeks.
Also watched rough Cuts and will give some thought to how they curved or warped boards. it might make for a much better build.
 I watch most of the wood working shows on PBS which also include Wood Wright Shop and Woodsmith Shop. because of my background as a machinist and using a wide variety of tools, I take the time to consider how what they know might benefit me with my pursuit of a Bessler wheel. Helps to make things easier seeing experienced professionals using different tools and techniques in wood working. Of course, with those guys, they make it look easy because they have practiced their trade for a while.
 With myself, I'll have to practice on something like pine so I can learn the techniques I'll be using a little better before using more expensive wood.
 
                                                                             Jim
 
edited to modify a verb

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2012, 08:24:43 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2012, 06:30:43 PM »
   Not sure when I will be able to get back to this. As things are, to open the door to my shop (it's an overhead door), it
could undo my latest surgery. That wouldn't be of any help.
 I may just stick with the tools I have. Missing work and not being sure how things will be going for me in a couple of weeks means I should keep my money in the bank. Even with this uncertainty, when my doctor clears me, I can still build a routing table. Something that would be about 48 inches by 48 inches. I need somethng flat to route a wheel on, especially if it's about 40 inches in diameter.
 The sections that would compose the wheel could be made using what I already have. And with what I saw on Rough Cuts, I am still considering how a router table might help me to do have a more professional go of it. So having some down time isn't such a bad thing, it allows for a review of what i want to do, see what's really necessary. In a build like this, if Bessler did it as I believe he did, then it has been about 300 years since soemone did something like this. Custom Build all the way.
 And since I am a machinist by trade, it will take me a little getting used to working with power tools and equipment that I haven't used before. Watching the pro's on PBS doesn't make a pro, it does help me to know what I need to learn though. And it's that first part that I think is most important, realizing what I NEED to learn. Other wise, if I don't take the time to learn, then I can't progress, can I ?
 
                                                                                                                                           Jim

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2012, 12:01:33 AM »
  @All,
 Will probably start making the mols for my weights tonight.
Still, when I get finished building, I probably won't make it known.
AB Hammer hararrssed me for the last few years because he thought it was
something I could do. Why he refused to work with me and kept me from
finding someone to work with on it that did not have my medical issues
always causing problems.
 Still, would be nice to know if my surgeon took care of my primary problem.
Don't know but would like to. My job depends on it as my employer has had the
legal right to terminate my employment any time they like. But they have given
me the opportunity to try and get it across to my surgeon that my medical issues
need to be resolved.
 I think being involved in a build where the engineering itself is boring to people
kind of makes me wish I grew up in a different environment. After all, if what I
am working on proves correct, there really won't be anything for me to discuss. It
would be pretty obvious why it works.
 
                                                                                                Jim

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2012, 11:39:16 PM »
  @All,
 Watched the pros on woodsmithshop and is interesting.
They also made some curved pieces. I think I'll stay with what i have.
I did see a clamping technique they used which will be helpful. That and
they did show how to use laminates for curved pieces which wheels seem to use a
lot of. I'll be off line until Tuesday. Maybe I can show a start on this. It has
been a long time coming.
 
                                                                   Jim

Offline johnny874

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Re: How To Build A Bessler Type Wheel
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2012, 04:41:00 PM »
   @All,
 Have ordered the wood I'll be using to build the wheel with.
This weekend, I'll start building the form I'll be using. Then,
when I recieve the wood (it's special order basically), I'll
have to prep it (sand it) and then cut it into sections for
gluing together.
 When I have the form built, as simple as it will be, I'll post
a pic of it and how I'm assembling the different parts of the
wheel.
 
                                                             Jim
 
edited to add; 
  If a wheel of this type has 22 pounds of over balance at 78 inches (6.5ft.) or 10kg's @ 2 meters, how much torque is that ?
In SAE (American value), it's about 143 foot pounds of torque. How much energy could be harnessed from a generator with that much free energy being supplied to it ? I don't know myself. Maybe someone who knows electric motors can answer this question.
 Bessler's 12 foot wheel would have had this potential for producing work. I think in seeing the intelligence shown in his drawings let's me understand he was someone who was ahead of his time.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                      Jim

 

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