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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 1042606 times)

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2055 on: February 11, 2014, 12:08:37 AM »
lol yeah you win a noddy badge @sarkeizen.so instead of interrogating me directly on the physics of concentration cells like your supposed to do your attempt to sabotage efforted steps to cite-and-splain this shit by your incessant uploading some non-relevency e.g. english lit,spacebars,punctuation, 'correct' textbook editions,'wrong' encyclopedias,'dishonest' tendencies,perpetual definitions,eternal irrelevencies,etc etc,didnt pay off. But hey,i have to give you some credit,after all it was you who catalysed that wikipedia article discovery of mine.maybe your on my side in this courtcase and i dont even know it @sarkeizen.i must be careful

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2055 on: February 11, 2014, 12:08:37 AM »

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2056 on: February 11, 2014, 12:14:34 AM »
Sarkeizen plays the game of "legalism" where
the rules of procedure determine who "wins"
and who "loses."  It is precisely the same game
which is played in today's so-called Courts where
the Judge and the Attorneys act their respective
roles (as actors) while they conduct their "business."

There is no interest in establishing truth and deception
is not only permissible; it is encouraged.

The World of Science has become infected with the
same sort of procedural nonsense.  It is a sign of the
times in which we now find ourselves.

The world-wide system of deception and exploitation
is nearing its end... 

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2057 on: February 11, 2014, 12:36:58 AM »
true @seamonkey however if twasnt for sarkeizen,s incessant lawyertwists i wouldve still been sitting silent,waiting for a courtcase,something to ponder.. Thus we can say that both the anti and the pro are necessary for evolution of some kind of knowledge,discovery.i was just saying this to mark dansie not so long ago with regards to his neverending scuffle with stirling allen.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2057 on: February 11, 2014, 12:36:58 AM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2058 on: February 11, 2014, 01:10:25 AM »
so instead of interrogating me directly on the physics of concentration cells
Dude, I asked you for a formal argument going from ordinary electrochemistry textbooks to your conclusion.  That is interrogating you on physics.  However it does appear to be requesting more evidence than you have.

Quote
sabotage efforted steps to cite-and-splain this shit
ROFL.  You're such a liar.  You haven't provided a single proper cite.  NOT ONE.  The only thing close was where told me to get a completely different textbook than what you claim to be citing from and that you made me wait months for AND you said you did it deliberately.  Nobody would believe that you have even made a small attempt to cite and argue as was asked.
Quote
english lit,spacebars,punctuation
Your English is like that of a ten year old.   Several people have complained and I think we all know you are doing it deliberately.  So just asking you to drop the fake moron-speak and type like an adult shouldn't be a problem.
Quote
'correct' textbook editions
You are lying. You told me to get a completely different textbook than the one you appear to have.  This isn't about "editions" moron.
Quote
'wrong' encyclopedias
You are lying. I haven't said an encyclopedia is wrong.  You said your argument was in EVERY textbook.  So citing something other than wikipedia should be easy.  It wasn't so that makes your claim suspect.  From there you were only able to reference obscure papers.  Often lying about them because, of course you haven't read them.
Quote
'dishonest' tendencies
Dude, you have admitted to lying to me at least four times about KEY POINTS.  Most of your above points are lies. I have been completely honest with you this whole time.  Your dishonesty is unfair and wrong.
Quote
perpetual definitions
You are lying.   If I don't know what you're talking about I should be allowed to ask for a definition.  You are the one who outright REFUSES to define terms and the DEMANDS people evaluate the evidence.  Mind you the fact that you talk like a 10 year old doesn't help.
Quote
eternal irrelevencies
Everything I've asked for, to my knowledge I've explained usually multiple times and I've usually explained why what you provided instead is stupid.  However if there's any outstanding question about why I am asking you to provide something.  Please feel free to ask.

Sarkeizen plays the game of "legalism" where the rules of procedure determine who "wins" and who "loses."  It is precisely the same game
which is played in today's so-called Courts where the Judge and the Attorneys act their respective roles (as actors) while they conduct their "business."
Going for an oscar?  You should with melodrama like that.

What I've asked Profitis for is simply the only question which I think can be reasonably determined here given what an enormous douche profitis is.  That is: "Can Profitis support his assertion to the degree which he has asserted it?".

The answer is...No.  He has said that textbooks and textbooks alone, without observing anything else can make his point about eternal batteries.  He has also stated that no textbook will directly and unambiguously  state "here's how you make an external battery".  So the ONLY way he can make his point is to argue using pure logic from an assertion (or assertions) in textbooks to his conclusion.   Which if you pay close attention you'll see is exactly what has been asked for and exactly what profitis the asshole has avoided doing for months.

Quote
There is no interest in establishing truth and deception is not only permissible; it is encouraged.
Uh...did you not notice the number of times Profitis lied and admitted to lying to me?  No?  Well don't let that get in the way of your vicarious victimhood.

Seriously part of the benefit of a formal logical argument is that it is above deception.  It simply is valid or invalid.  Any ambiguity can be resolved with sufficient effort.  Which is a good reason for a deceptive person like profitis would avoid it.
Quote
The World of Science has become infected with the same sort of procedural nonsense.  It is a sign of the times in which we now find ourselves.
I'm not a spokesperson for the "World of Science" I'm glad you think you are.  However whatever nonsense you are thinking it's clearly incorrect.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2059 on: February 11, 2014, 02:22:19 AM »
@sarkeizen ..so you,re basicly saying that you,re a stubborn-ass.that you must have a cite and a splain in the exact order you want,the punctuation you want,the way you want,forwards to backward,that i must show a predictive text starting from nernst equation to diffusion cells to spontaneous repetitive thermodynamics,correct? Without kelvin rules correct?for you to be satisfied by my argument yes?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2059 on: February 11, 2014, 02:22:19 AM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2060 on: February 11, 2014, 03:22:16 AM »
@sarkeizen ..so you,re basicly saying
I'm saying that the only point I've been discussing from exceptionally early on was about your ability to support your statement: "ALL TEXTBOOKS necessitate the existence of and ability to create a battery which will power an ipod-like device continually and eternally"

The only way that point can be made, since no textbook will outright say "hey here's how you build an eternal battery" is a formal logical argument starting at the cite and ending with your statement: "ALL TEXTBOOKS necessitate the existence of and ability to create a battery which will power an ipod-like device continually and eternally"

Anything else can not make your point.  I assume you are avoiding this because you know you can't.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2061 on: February 11, 2014, 08:50:13 AM »
@sarkeizen so you want CITES and EXPLANATION from all  textbooks forcing nernst equation onto diffusion cells onto spontaneously reversable thermodynamics correct?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2061 on: February 11, 2014, 08:50:13 AM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2062 on: February 11, 2014, 02:57:22 PM »
@sarkeizen so you want CITES and EXPLANATION from all  textbooks
You know if you read my prior posts, instead of just being an asshole these things would be easier .

At least one cite from an ordinary textbook, for every external assumption.  The point of a cite is, as I said at least twenty times so that I don't have to depend on you for the interpretation of the text.  This is standard procedure in everything from research papers and high-school projects.  As stated before your argument must end with your prior statement as your conclusion: Therefore textbooks necessitate the existence of and ability to build a battery which can run an ipod like device constantly and eternally.

Incidentally since it's a *formal* argument - you can't use absence of evidence as evidence of absence.  So the fact that something doesn't mention something doesn't demonstrate it's independence.

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2063 on: February 11, 2014, 04:30:27 PM »
Stepping in here for a moment, my understanding of the Nernst equation is that entropy is implicit within it.  This leads me to two problems:  The first is that any process described by the equation is not 100% reversible.  The second is that my understanding is that 100% reversibility would translate only to the possibility of 100% energy cycle efficiency.  It would not allow for an infinite energy delivery that any finite load running perpetually would demand.  The reagents used in the cell react releasing energy and convert into waste product.  In a secondary cell the reactions can be reversed by adding energy back to the cell from an external source.  Absent an external recharging source, the best that we could do would be to construct a really big battery that would last a really long time on some defined finite load.  That wouldn't exactly be a perpetual cell.

What am I missing?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2063 on: February 11, 2014, 04:30:27 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2064 on: February 11, 2014, 04:56:15 PM »
@sarkeizen so you want me to CITE and EXPLAIN in order to FORCE spontaneously reversable thermodynamics in a concentration cell that dont change over time correct?

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2065 on: February 11, 2014, 05:13:14 PM »
@mark E no.the nernst equation simply relates voltage to concentration or more precisely,activity of all participating species in an electrode half-reaction.it says nothing about reversability,the kelvin statement is all about reversability.the kelvin statement implies that every time you go through a thermodynamic cycle that you must put effort in the system to repeat it.there is no net change in a karpen cell over time that correlates in any way with the energy it gives because it doesnt need to abide by kelvin statement to fulfill its thermodynamic entropy requirements. 

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2065 on: February 11, 2014, 05:13:14 PM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2066 on: February 11, 2014, 05:29:38 PM »
@sarkeizen so you want me to CITE and EXPLAIN in order to FORCE spontaneously reversable thermodynamics in a concentration cell that dont change over time correct?
Your statement is too ambiguous.  Your argument needs to be a series of statements which force a conclusion (Therefore textbooks necessitate the existence of and ability to build a battery which can run an ipod like device constantly and eternally.).  To force, in this case means demonstrate there exists no logically-valid alternative.

Stepping in here for a moment, my understanding of the Nernst equation is that entropy is implicit within it.
If so, that kind of illustrates my much earlier comment about profitis being a little ignorant about how physical formulae are developed.  Physical formulae are empirical truths, so if we use a regression analysis (or some other tool) to create a formula to relate property X and Y.  We include all the assumptions involved in observing property X and Y.  This creates limitations on inference.  Occasionally math does reveal things that we didn't observe.  The Dirac equation, for example predicted positrons.  However this is not necessarily the general case.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2067 on: February 11, 2014, 05:48:33 PM »
yes demonstrate is the key word @sarkeizen i.e. to build and see however textbooks will have to do because you are there and i am here so again,do you want me to CITE and EXPLAIN (your not an electrochemist i presume) how a concentration cell,s entropy requirements can be met without kelvin rule in the picture,yes or no. 

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2068 on: February 11, 2014, 06:00:50 PM »
@sarkeizen your implying that kelvin statement is necessary for all thermodynamic entropy requirements is totaly false.

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2069 on: February 11, 2014, 06:29:21 PM »
@mark E no.the nernst equation simply relates voltage to concentration or more precisely,activity of all participating species in an electrode half-reaction.it says nothing about reversability,the kelvin statement is all about reversability.the kelvin statement implies that every time you go through a thermodynamic cycle that you must put effort in the system to repeat it.there is no net change in a karpen cell over time that correlates in any way with the energy it gives because it doesnt need to abide by kelvin statement to fulfill its thermodynamic entropy requirements.
Thanks, but if I let two half cells communicate that have different concentrations of the same ions, my understanding is that they will each move towards the equilibrium concentration.  If they were thermodynamically reversible they might move towards or away from the equilibrium concentration.  Do I understand that incorrectly?

 

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