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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 1049331 times)

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1995 on: February 03, 2014, 01:24:25 PM »
@sarkeizen 1)a concentration cell is not informal.it is fully compliant with textbook rules governing concentration cells.the nernstian equation holding strong and totalitarian.that diagram is a diagram of a concentration cell.that diagram is a diagram of a wikipedia oxygen concentration cell.you have to prove otherwise. 2)even if i demonstrate a working everlasting battery between your 2 positions A and B it doesnt imply that your implications are atrociously meaningless? Try shoving palladium and silver in electrolyte under hydrogen sometime and come back to me with your complaints.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1995 on: February 03, 2014, 01:24:25 PM »

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1996 on: February 03, 2014, 01:35:22 PM »
@mark E,whoooarr,hey,dontcha think that if i can tell you how to build a perpetual battery with things lying around your lab that phillip just may,may be right buddy? :-)

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1997 on: February 03, 2014, 01:57:49 PM »
@mark E,whoooarr,hey,dontcha think that if i can tell you how to build a perpetual battery with things lying around your lab that phillip just may,may be right buddy? :-)
Profitis, whether Mr. Hardcastle's ideas are right or wrong, his experiments can't tell.

If you can build a perpetual battery, have you done so and disconnected from the utility grid?  If you haven't disconnected, then why not?

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1997 on: February 03, 2014, 01:57:49 PM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1998 on: February 03, 2014, 02:33:59 PM »
@sarkeizen 1)a concentration cell is not informal.it is fully compliant with textbook rules governing concentration cells
You are simply re-stating part of your hypothesis here.  It's not a formal argument, which would be required to make your point.
Quote
2)even if i demonstrate a working everlasting battery
This is, as mentioned before impossible to demonstrate purely empirically.  So it's begging the question. 
Quote
Try shoving palladium and silver in electrolyte under hydrogen sometime and come back to me with your complaints.
Is this you conceding the point?  I did ask you to make a "build it" statement if you were conceding the point.  It's also an implied argument from ignorance...another logical fallacy,.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 01:11:01 AM by sarkeizen »

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1999 on: February 04, 2014, 07:17:09 AM »
@mark E,,the utility grid is 240volts and 20 000 milliamps with no discharge curve. my battery is 1volt and 30milliamps/cm2 with a discharge curve.how much palladium do you want me to buy to go off-grid? I,l stick to using it for ipods thanks (-:.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1999 on: February 04, 2014, 07:17:09 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2000 on: February 04, 2014, 07:21:52 AM »
@mark E,,the utility grid is 240volts and 20 000 milliamps with no discharge curve. my battery is 1volt and 30milliamps/cm2 with a discharge curve.how much palladium do you want me to buy to go off-grid? I,l stick to using it for ipods thanks (-:.
Profitis, a battery cannot consume materials and also be perpetual.  A battery that is perpetual cannot have a discharge curve.  You say that your battery has a discharge curve.  Therefore it is not perpetual.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2001 on: February 04, 2014, 08:22:48 AM »
@markE a perpetual motion machine cant have cyclic thermodynamics?since when? It depends how much current you draw and the rate at which it re-charges itself,much like the karpen oxygen spillover battery.the driving gradient is hydrogen spillover in this case.catalyst spillover reaching a saturation point,then must b de-contacted from its substrate for re-establishment of equilibrium i.e. switched off. So i,l listen to my ipod for say 30mins,switch it off to rest say 10minutes,then listen to my ipod for another 30mins and repeat the thermodynamic cycle.depends how much power i draw

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2001 on: February 04, 2014, 08:22:48 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2002 on: February 04, 2014, 09:03:28 AM »
@markE a perpetual motion machine cant have cyclic thermodynamics?since when? It depends how much current you draw and the rate at which it re-charges itself,much like the karpen oxygen spillover battery.the driving gradient is hydrogen spillover in this case.catalyst spillover reaching a saturation point,then must b de-contacted from its substrate for re-establishment of equilibrium i.e. switched off. So i,l listen to my ipod for say 30mins,switch it off to rest say 10minutes,then listen to my ipod for another 30mins and repeat the thermodynamic cycle.depends how much power i draw
Profitis, a battery that discharges is by definition not perpetual.  You said that your battery has a discharge curve.  Therefore your battery is not perpetual. 

Quote
@mark E, ... my battery is 1volt and 30milliamps/cm2 with a discharge curve.how much palladium do you want me to buy to go off-grid? I,l stick to using it for ipods thanks (-:.

If you want to claim that you have some other free power source that can recharge your battery once discharged, or run loads on its own, then that is something different.  Of course if you want anyone to believe such an extraordinary claim, you will need to produce strong evidence for that claim.



Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2003 on: February 04, 2014, 09:49:06 AM »
@mark E,huh? A battery that discharges repeatedly inbetween auto-charging repeatedly isnt perpetual? Then what is it? ((-:giggle B) the entire class of spillover batteries auto-recharge my friend,try building one sometime.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2003 on: February 04, 2014, 09:49:06 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2004 on: February 04, 2014, 10:52:38 AM »
@mark E,huh? A battery that discharges repeatedly inbetween auto-charging repeatedly isnt perpetual? Then what is it? ((-:giggle B) the entire class of spillover batteries auto-recharge my friend,try building one sometime.
Profitis if you want to claim that you have a battery that charges itself, then you have a high evidence barrier to climb.  Would you care to demonstrate such a battery?  Or in the alternate would you care to point to documentation of such a battery?  What is the supposed source of energy that recharges this "entire class" of battery?

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2005 on: February 04, 2014, 05:12:10 PM »
A battery that discharges repeatedly inbetween auto-charging repeatedly isnt perpetual?
Not in any useful sense of the term.

You could attach a battery to a photoelectric panel which charges it when you switch it off and get the same stated outcomes (which you will now add to instead of admitting you're wrong).   The only difference is that in one case you know the environment which charges the battery and you know why it doesn't violate 2LOT and in the other you are saying it's magic because you decided not to think about it (or more precisely you decided it was magic and then tried to google documents to help convince yourself that you're not just talking about fairy dust).
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the entire class of name-I-stupidly-just-made-up-from-googling-batteries auto-recharge
Yawn.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2005 on: February 04, 2014, 05:12:10 PM »
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Offline roguetechie

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2006 on: February 04, 2014, 08:40:59 PM »
Sark... can't spell the rest of your username correctly by memory sorry..

I have a very serious question for you relating to this link:  http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/01/31/1745245/engineers-invent-acoustic-equivalent-of-one-way-glass

So the link details the acoustic equivalent of one way glass that has been built in a lab now.  Now my question is do inventions like this that are creating fundamental Assymetries that were thought to be impossible not create a glimmer of hope that a device in the same class of quentron type devices could in fact be possible? I mean I know the device itself doesn't itself necessarily violate 2LOT but to me it seems like every day brings us closer to viable 2LOT violating devices.

What is your feeling on this?

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2007 on: February 04, 2014, 09:52:55 PM »
So the link details the acoustic equivalent of one way glass that has been built in a lab now.  Now my question is do inventions like this that are creating fundamental Assymetries that were thought to be impossible not create a glimmer of hope that a device in the same class of quentron type devices could in fact be possible?
I think the problem I see here is that "fundamental asymmetries" sounds like a convenient fiction.   Why bother relating the "hearing means being heard" with the 2nd law of thermodynamics?  Other than knowing that one is not entirely true bolsters your belief in the other being likewise.

My difficulty with 2LOT violations in principle is that they violate information theory.  In addition Philip's device specifically appears to violate complexity theory in that it could be used as a quantum computational device which does sorting in O(n) time.   However we already know you can't do that using a classical computer and we also already know that you can't do that with a quantum machine.   So if classical and quantum effects are accounted for, what is doing the computation?

My difficulty with alleged 2LOT Violators is that they usually deal in such small quantities that statistically there is a far, far, far,far greater likelihood that they are making a mistake.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2008 on: February 04, 2014, 10:01:18 PM »
@mark E, naturaly.i got a vid sample here on the forum www.overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/526/ this power coming from a few mm2 active nickel-black surface plated on a nickel grid anode and silver cathode in sodium hydroxide under hydrogen. Theres quite a few documents on the related karpen,s battery floating on the net and a good one is here by camil alexandrescu for new energy journal www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/69870019 where its oxygen concentration gradient is described.the source of energy for this class of cells is heat from a single thermal reservoir,anywhere,anytime.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2009 on: February 04, 2014, 10:22:22 PM »
@sarkeizen,no problemo,just stack a few slices of metal and electrolyte into a pile under hydrogen to up the voltage and leak a steady flow of smaller current at the same rate as the battery,s recharge rate and you get continuous power to your ipod.we are still waiting for you and mark E to tell us how the cell mentioned in wikipedia under the name 'oxygen concentration cell' goes dead flat and how kelvin statement fits in with wikipedia,s catalyst thermodynamic spillover cycle.

 

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