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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 1033637 times)

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1635 on: December 17, 2013, 09:26:32 PM »
i dont see how the commonest,most widespread rules governing concentration cells can possibly be informal
If it's a well established rule in textbooks.  Then you need a textbook cite to make your argument that "all we need is textbooks".  Until then you fail.  Keep on failing there troll-boy.
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and while youre at it please explain your accusation of informality
I did, several times.  A formal argument is a series of statements which reach a conclusion.  Each statement following the first one is FORCED by the prior.  In other words it is absolutely impossible to reach any other conclusion.  No series of steps, no formal argument. QED.  Most of the statements you make are so incredibly broad they can not be said to force anything.  Thus again, no formal argument.

Let me know when you fix these things.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1635 on: December 17, 2013, 09:26:32 PM »

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1636 on: December 17, 2013, 09:54:49 PM »
series of steps,except there is only 1 step man,dont make me angry now @sarkeizen.if i was a teacher in a college and i asked the students to build an oxygen-electrode concentration cell at ambient pressure,temperature,what cell are they going to build except a karpen cell @sarkeizen.they are forced to have only one choice but to build an karpen-type thingy in direct accordance with textbook rules @sarkeizen.one step.one thermodynamics.one conclusion.i cant give you more than one step to such a common theme @sarkeizen.a karpen cell obeys the rules of thermodynamics,in two ways.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1637 on: December 18, 2013, 07:01:48 PM »
series of steps,except there is only 1 step man
Then the only thing that will demonstrate "The textbooks say that you can build something which will power an ipod-like device forever" is a textbook cite which says words to the effect. Otherwise you need a textbook cite AND a series of steps leading to your conclusion.   Anything else is begging the question. QED -> You fail to make your point.
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,dont make me angry now
Don't make me laugh.
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i cant give you more than one step to such a common theme
Any argument that can not be broken down into steps is, by definition an assumption.  You can assume that you can build things that will power something forever in exactly the same way you can believe in an invisible, insubstantial dragon in your garage. 

See, as soon as you start talking logic.  You lose.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1637 on: December 18, 2013, 07:01:48 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1638 on: December 18, 2013, 08:12:13 PM »
bravo. except i won this race looong ago @sarkeizen.because this discussion is after the fact.ie.this discussion is now to suss out whats going down in the buildable,testable 3-d everlasting thing,after the fact.so lets cater to your request for multiple inescapable steps then just for the sake of post-argument.step 1: im a teacher in college and i demand construction of a e.g. hydrogen electrode concentration cell from you,the student.i also demand construction of a copper-electrode concentration cell from you,the student.do you agree that step 1 thus so far is crystal clear and,in your words,forced inescapable logic @sarkeizen.do you agree yes or no.if no please state a reason.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1639 on: December 18, 2013, 09:09:51 PM »
except i won this race looong ago
Nope.  Sorry, that's quite impossible.  The argument at hand is whether or not the hypothesis "A device can be built that will power an ipod like device forever" can be supported purely by textbooks.  If that was the case, the formal argument and cites would be in the thread.  There is no other way to make this point.  Now you can pretend you've made the point.  The same as you might pretend there's a invisible, intangible dragon in your garage.

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step 1: im a teacher in college and i demand construction of a e.g. hydrogen electrode concentration cell from you,the student
Step 1a: I tell you to go away troll-boy.

I'm not a student, you are not a teacher.  I have no idea how to build anything of the sort, nor do I know what you mean by your terms.  Not to mention that this step doesn't - as discussed - appear to stem from a cite from a textbook so it doesn't make your argument (and if it does then it's not "crystal clear" so it fails there too)

Some advice, start with a cite from a textbook.  That's how you can make the argument "All you need is textbooks"

I wonder if people tell you, you're good at arguing.  If so, you should gently let those people know they are pretty stupid.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1639 on: December 18, 2013, 09:09:51 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1640 on: December 19, 2013, 01:55:28 AM »
my my.now one thing is  crystal clear: i AM a teacher in your case @sarkeizen.you know nothing about concentration cell college basics it seems.i was going to start uploading textbook quotas for everyone as step 2 proceeded but i see you are now stuck on step 1, which is one of the basicest questions of the formal college basics on concentration cells.did you not do electrochemistry in college @sarkeizen.they often ask the students to build very specific types of cells.let me try again:lets pretend that you are a student,im a teacher,and i demand you build a hydrogen concentration cell and a copper concentration cell for exams.do you agree with the logic of this hypothetical demand or not @sarkeizen.if not please make yourself agree with it so that i can proceed to uploaded textbook citations in support of its logicity and hence in support of an self-powered ipod.you wanted steps,now help us move to step 2
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 04:07:33 AM by profitis »

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1641 on: December 19, 2013, 04:35:32 AM »
my my.now one thing is  crystal clear: i AM a teacher in your case
Not really.  So far you have not demonstrated, to me that you have anything to teach.  You have spent most of your time avoiding the question and dodging something you implied was very easy.  As I've stated you're likely a troll or a very stupid person.  Neither I'd consider taking a class from.
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@sarkeizen.you know nothing about concentration cell college basics
So far there's no reason to believe you know anything pertinent to the discussion concerning textbooks which somehow prove you can build an everlasting , 2nd law violating ipod charger.  That is the point at hand.  Please try to keep to it.
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let me try again:lets pretend that you are a student,im a teacher,and i demand you build a hydrogen concentration cell and a copper concentration cell for exams
Considering what I know of you I don't believe you have anything to teach.  So I kick you in the groin many times and leave the class.  You howl and writhe with pain on the floor and just before you black out you wish you had taken a logic course from me...

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do you agree with the logic of this hypothetical demand or not
Since what I posted above is a potential consequence of being in that situation which clearly ends without proving your point.  We can assume that your next step can not force your conclusion - that is if it is at least slightly possible for me not to stay in your class.  Then there is a possible alternative to your next statement.  Hence it is not forced.  Ergo you have not made a formal logical argument. 

Congratulations on your big steaming cup of fail.

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so that i can proceed to uploaded textbook citations
Dude you have lied about this so many times.  If you wanted to upload a cite, if you had a cite that made your point then you would likely have posted it by now.

If you want to make a formal argument you should make clear your set of assumptions, support them from textbook cites then introduce your steps going from there to your conclusion.  Anything else is begging the question.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1641 on: December 19, 2013, 04:35:32 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1642 on: December 19, 2013, 06:45:56 AM »
ok so lets say that the teacher is not me.lets say that the teacher is someone else,like say for example the teacher at princeton varsity,and you the student.lets say this to avoid your personal dislike of my classroom and to avoid potential violence.lets say that the princeton teacher now makes a sudden demand of you to construct a hydrogen concentration cell and copper concentration cell for the fun of it.do you now think that this is a reasonable and logic hypothetical demand @sarkeizen.if not why dont you just pretend that you think it is so that we can move forward onto step number 2 @sarkeizen.you,re holding me and the audience up now,the letters E.O.A. come to mind.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1643 on: December 19, 2013, 07:19:42 AM »
ok so lets say that the teacher is not me.lets say that the teacher is someone else,like say for example the teacher at princeton varsity,and you the student.lets say this to avoid your personal dislike of my classroom and to avoid potential violence.lets say that the princeton teacher now makes a sudden demand of you to construct a hydrogen concentration cell and copper concentration cell for the fun of it.
How can someone demand that I do something for the fun of it?  Isn't that the antithesis of "fun"?  Is fun mandated where you live?

I find the mandated fun to be abhorrent and withdraw from the class.  The teacher weeps openly at the loss of such a great mind and wonders why they ever decided to be such a totalitarian dick.

Ever thought of making this about an argument rather than people?  It might go more quickly.  Your choice though be as stupid as you like.

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why dont you just pretend that you think it is so
Uh, so you want me to pretend that one of your premises follows another when it doesn't?  Why not just pretend I already pretended this and just provide cites to textbooks? Or better yet pretend that you're wrong and admit it.  Those are all pretty much equivalent actions.

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you,re holding me and the audience up now,the letters E.O.A. come to mind.
Yawn, no you're only imagining that I'm holding you up.  There is nothing actually stopping you from posting a cite to a textbook which proves your case.  You tried this lie before remember?  You pretended that if I did something you would post something?  Sorry not interested.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1643 on: December 19, 2013, 07:19:42 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1644 on: December 19, 2013, 08:29:33 AM »
because the hypothetical questions by the varsity teacher are pertinent to me showing everybody the enormous obstructionist asshole that you are @sarkeizen. varsity teachers shoot their questions in direct proportion to written text from text-books thus your refusal to answer to the logicity of very real potential questions that may rise up in princeton,for exams,or for fun, show us that you are here today on one mission:to win .E.O.A. of the year award.im not going to show one single quote until you answer that question,which makes up part 1 of a several step series of evidence of a self-powered battery.answer that question for us @sarkeizen.do you think its logical for a college or varsity teacher to ask a student to build a hydrogen and copper concentration cell.just answer yes or no please.no other words,just yes or no.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1645 on: December 19, 2013, 01:56:30 PM »
im not going to show one single quote
I know.

Nor will you cite a text or do anything to progress the argument.  Otherwise you would have likely done all that ages ago.  Putting an arbitrary requirement "If you do X I'll do Y" is just a transparent lie and one that you have already tried.
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until you answer that question
Then you have disproved your argument.  If the point was "Reading textbooks alone can demonstrate that X is true" clearly your position is false.  Since being part of your imaginary soap opera is not reading a textbook.  QED.

Glad that you have finally come clean about that.

Also is there a reason you are barely able to write English? or is this just a way to keep your troll-account separate from your other less trollish accounts?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1645 on: December 19, 2013, 01:56:30 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1646 on: December 19, 2013, 07:07:45 PM »
except it was you who requested a 'series of inescapable steps to force a conclusion' @sarkeizen.clearly you are either unwilling or incapable of reaching a consensus for step 1.step 1 is crucial for determining your competency for the next few steps @sarkeizen.your stubborn refusal to answer my question sheds more light on your incompetency than if you had just answered 'no' and then stood your ground.congratulations,you bailed out of your own argument @sarkeizen.saves me the hassle. And now you want to be my english teacher as compensation for your inability to be a good science student?pah!

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1647 on: December 19, 2013, 07:41:14 PM »
except it was you who requested a 'series of inescapable steps to force a conclusion'
And which you haven't provided.

If you read carefully, which you didn't.  What is being said is that *IF* you cannot provide a textbook cite which clearly forces your conclusion.  Then you need to provide a textbook cite and a series of steps to force your conclusion from there.  Anything else is you just making things up.
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@sarkeizen.clearly you are either unwilling or incapable of reaching a consensus for step 1
If consensus is required then your step does not force anything.  So according to you I showed that "Step 1" can not force any conclusion that makes your point.  If I can come up with some other outcome from "step 1" then it isn't an "inescapable step" now is it?  QED.
So thanks for admitting that you lost the argument. :D :D :D :D :D

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And now you want to be my english teacher as compensation for your inability to be a good science student?pah!
No I just said that you kind of suck terribly at English.  Is it deliberate?  Seems like it.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1648 on: December 19, 2013, 07:55:54 PM »
no you showed that step 1 forced a major ginormous conclusion @sarkeizen.you showed that you are de facto totaly incompetent to stand trial in this karpen case.i asked a question that 99.9% of the scientist population groups would give the thumbs-up for.tell you what,go and phone or email your local varsity science department and ask them if my question is logic @sarkeizen.i,l wait here for your 1)answer and 2)explanation.since you want to be the expert on formatting logic,we wait for your reply from the mouths of the real mcoy...

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1649 on: December 19, 2013, 08:31:29 PM »
l wait here for your 1)answer and 2)explanation
The answer is, it can be shown that it doesn't force YOUR conclusion.  If it did, then no other outcome would be possible.  However it *is* possible to have a different outcome than the one you want.  Hence the next "step" is not *forced*.  QED.

Do you not know what "forced" means?  Do you not realize how your step 1 does not force your conclusion?


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.since you want to be the expert on formatting logic,we wait for your reply from the mouths of the real mcoy...
So seriously is the crappy English deliberate?  It seems like it is.

 

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