Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Google Search

Custom Search

Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 1061167 times)

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2505 on: June 09, 2014, 04:16:55 AM »
So your saying that the diagrammed system under vaccuum and ideal single temperature will pass charge through the switch only once @mark E? Not repeatable? You would be correct if it werent for capacitor leakage and re-equilibrization across the vaccuum gap.its reversable.
Are you having difficulty reading?  I said it will only discharge once.  I said nothing about whether or not oscillations take place. 

Again you have failed to specify the two states you consider and show that the system can move between those states in either direction.  You have failed to establish reversibility.

Offline profitis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3952
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2506 on: June 09, 2014, 11:37:25 AM »
The two states are cleary visible in the above diagram.state 1) open switch,neutral plates. state2) closed switch,charges plates.a fully spontaneous reversable process. Step 1) thermal equilibrium.step 2) electrochemical equilibrium accompanied by temperature change step 3)back to step 1 (capacitor leakage) @mark E. I have not failed to show reversability.

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2507 on: June 09, 2014, 05:56:32 PM »
The two states are cleary visible in the above diagram.state 1) open switch,neutral plates. state2) closed switch,charges plates.a fully spontaneous reversable process. Step 1) thermal equilibrium.step 2) electrochemical equilibrium accompanied by temperature change step 3)back to step 1 (capacitor leakage) @mark E. I have not failed to show reversability.
LOL, well when you figure out what thermodynamic states are then we can resume the conversation.

Offline profitis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3952
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2508 on: June 09, 2014, 06:20:45 PM »
Lol @mark E.when you can show the scientists watching here that the above system in a single reservoir is irreversable THEN we can resume the discussion (-:

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2509 on: June 09, 2014, 06:23:10 PM »
You are just getting sillier and sillier.  It is up to you to show that the system is reversible.  In order to do so you must both: identify the at least two thermodynamic states, and show that the system can freely move from one to the other by itself.  You have not performed either task. 

Offline profitis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3952
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2510 on: June 09, 2014, 06:38:41 PM »
I have clearly defined the parameters @mark E.the above system is sitting in a single thermal reservoir and shooting electric charge backwards and forewards,against the 2nd law. you close the switch,charge seperation results,and with it brief temperature change(current flows).you open the switch,prior equilibrium is re- established.as simple as that.you have to now show us why the charged capacitor won't leak across the vaccuum gap when the switch is open.if your not able to do this then we must conclude full reversability.

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2511 on: June 09, 2014, 07:59:49 PM »
I have clearly defined the parameters @mark E.the above system is sitting in a single thermal reservoir and shooting electric charge backwards and forewards,against the 2nd law. you close the switch,charge seperation results,and with it brief temperature change(current flows).you open the switch,prior equilibrium is re- established.as simple as that.you have to now show us why the charged capacitor won't leak across the vaccuum gap when the switch is open.if your not able to do this then we must conclude full reversability.
Sorry, but I can ring a tank circuit all day long and the Second Law stands unperturbed.  Again, if you wish to show reversibility, you need to show both:  the two thermodynamic states that the system can move between, and that the system can move between those states in either direction without external input.  If you labor under the mistaken idea that you can operate the switch for zero energy and extract energy each time you cycle that switch, then you have a lot of work ahead of you to try and show that your idea is correct, because it isn't.

Offline profitis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3952
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2512 on: June 09, 2014, 08:39:04 PM »
Its a thought experiment in an ideal box @mark E but if you can't directly smash this lil example then who knows,perhaps we can take it out the box to the practical level.the capacitance can be made arbitrarily large so your switch complaint falls out immediately.as for your two states: one entropy state is the electrochemical entropy gradient.the other entropy state is the diffusion gradient.two gradients at loggerheads.wikipedia insists that all capacitors leak,why should this one be the exception @mark E.

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2513 on: June 09, 2014, 08:53:53 PM »
Its a thought experiment in an ideal box @mark E but if you can't directly smash this lil example then who knows,perhaps we can take it out the box to the practical level.the capacitance can be made arbitrarily large so your switch complaint falls out immediately.as for your two states: one entropy state is the electrochemical entropy gradient.the other entropy state is the diffusion gradient.two gradients at loggerheads.wikipedia insists that all capacitors leak,why should this one be the exception @mark E.
Round and round we go:  You make an outrageous assertion.  You fail to back your assertion.  You insist that it is up to others to do your work.  Sorry, dude.  Do the work, or don't do the work.  Your argument has no basis as long as you don't do the work.

Offline profitis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3952
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2514 on: June 09, 2014, 09:08:56 PM »
Wikipedia doesn't back my assertion that the fully charged capacitor will leak @mark E? Wikipedia backs my assertion that the fully charged capacitor in THAT or any diagram will leak mr E.your saying that it will hold its charge permanently.your saying that when that switch is open NO leakage whatsoever will occur.I don't believe you @mark E.

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2515 on: June 09, 2014, 10:06:26 PM »
Wikipedia doesn't back my assertion that the fully charged capacitor will leak @mark E? Wikipedia backs my assertion that the fully charged capacitor in THAT or any diagram will leak mr E.your saying that it will hold its charge permanently.your saying that when that switch is open NO leakage whatsoever will occur.I don't believe you @mark E.
You claim to have an example of a fully reversible thermodynamic process.  You[ve have done nothing to show that you actually do. It's pretty sad for you when you resort to fabricating statements I never made.

Offline profitis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3952
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2516 on: June 09, 2014, 10:24:53 PM »
You've done nothing to show that I don't.something for the audience to ponder @mark E.why don't you rather admit that you can't bust this thought experiment and we can close the case.I see in other threads your too happy when thought experiments come your way.why not this one? This one only requires you to show zero leakage accross a simple capacitor.you'd think that would be chopsticks for a scientist.

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2517 on: June 09, 2014, 10:33:24 PM »
You've done nothing to show that I don't.something for the audience to ponder @mark E.why don't you rather admit that you can't bust this thought experiment and we can close the case.I see in other threads your too happy when thought experiments come your way.why not this one? This one only requires you to show zero leakage accross a simple capacitor.you'd think that would be chopsticks for a scientist.
Round and round we go.  You've done this many times now.  The burden of proof for an extraordinary claim, such as your claim that you have an example of a fully reversible thermodynamic process, is upon the claimant.  You have not even begun to make an argument for your claim.  You have shadow boxed yourself black and blue.

Offline profitis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3952
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2518 on: June 09, 2014, 10:42:08 PM »
Its a thought experiment @mark E.don't take it too seriously.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2519 on: June 11, 2014, 05:46:32 AM »
Hi profitis,


I can assure you that your position on the thought experiment is wrong, and I can in detail explain why (this is one of my fields of expertise), but being respectful to the participants in the conversation I will properly give MarkE the opportunity of meeting your challenge, if after giving him a few more days he still cannot explain the reasons that it is false, then I will.


Phil