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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 1060828 times)

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2490 on: June 08, 2014, 02:46:41 AM »
Can I ask you a question @mark E? (-:

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2491 on: June 08, 2014, 02:49:34 AM »
Can I ask you a question @mark E? (-:
Obviously, you just did.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2492 on: June 08, 2014, 02:58:22 AM »
Right but here's another  question: if I take a piece zinc and a piece copper and shove them under vaccuum and contact them together..what kind of entropy change is taking place here? Does one piece cool down and the other heat up on contact?

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2493 on: June 08, 2014, 03:05:33 AM »
I'm refering to a contact potential,s reversable thermodynamics btw @markE

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2494 on: June 08, 2014, 05:16:51 AM »
I'm refering to a contact potential,s reversable thermodynamics btw @markE
Those are two different things.
In order for a thermodynamic process to be fully reversible it must be able go either direction between two states without any external applied energy.  Do you assert that such a thing happens under the conditions you state with your copper and zinc strips?  If you do, then please identify the states and show that such a thing happens by experiment or some reputable reference.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2495 on: June 08, 2014, 10:24:45 AM »
no I'm just asking you about the thermodynamics of the two strips alone.forget about my hands @mark E.I want to know what's going on in the strips: does one cool down and one heat up when contacted.I don't see the energy diagram for the repeatable process anywhere on the net..

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2496 on: June 08, 2014, 01:03:15 PM »
no I'm just asking you about the thermodynamics of the two strips alone.forget about my hands @mark E.I want to know what's going on in the strips: does one cool down and one heat up when contacted.I don't see the energy diagram for the repeatable process anywhere on the net..
I haven't mentioned anything about your hands.  If you wish to try and show a Second Law violation with some arrangement then state the basis of your claim.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2497 on: June 08, 2014, 02:14:13 PM »
My claim is that there is a temperature change with this 100% reversable process: www.micromagazine.fabtech.org/archive/05/01/images/0501MI56a.gif

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2498 on: June 08, 2014, 02:30:57 PM »
You should first establish your claim that the process is 100% reversible.  BTW: Your link is bad.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2499 on: June 08, 2014, 02:41:52 PM »
This image betta.my only desire for now is to establish that a temperature change will happen here and that the metal plates capacitance can be arbitrarily large while the switch remain same size @markE

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2500 on: June 08, 2014, 03:22:45 PM »
The metal combos can be lithium/platinum,caesium/gold,zinc/gold,zinc/copper,zinc/tin etc etc.the metal pieces can be large/small/rough/smooth thus I've now established that the capacitance can be made arbitrarily large @mark E.now its just a question of the temperature changes that accompany this process..

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2501 on: June 08, 2014, 09:16:15 PM »
Cmon @mark E.whats going to happen if we close the switch in that diagram,then open it.wheres the irreversability???????

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2502 on: June 09, 2014, 12:04:05 AM »
This image betta.my only desire for now is to establish that a temperature change will happen here and that the metal plates capacitance can be arbitrarily large while the switch remain same size @markE
You have not established such a thing.  For your vacuum conditions:  the system is in thermal equilibrium and remains there. 

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2503 on: June 09, 2014, 12:10:57 AM »
Cmon @mark E.whats going to happen if we close the switch in that diagram,then open it.wheres the irreversability???????
You did work charging a capacitor when you brought the plates into proximity.  One time only you can discharge that energy through a switch that includes the circuit and plate resistance.  Where is the reversibility?  Show the two states and that with no external input energy the system can go between the one and the other freely.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2504 on: June 09, 2014, 12:20:01 AM »
So your saying that the diagrammed system under vaccuum and ideal single temperature will pass charge through the switch only once @mark E? Not repeatable? You would be correct if it werent for capacitor leakage and re-equilibrization across the vaccuum gap.its reversable.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 03:01:59 AM by profitis »