Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 892846
  • *Total Topics: 15673
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 2
  • *Guests: 18
  • *Total: 20

Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 968661 times)

Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2460 on: June 05, 2014, 01:51:44 AM »
@Sarkeizen,


If you want a polite conversation on the subject I will engage with you for a while as I have some free time at the moment.


I say that a device (such as Sebithenco) sorts particles (electrons) into two regions based simply on the ability of the electron to overcome an energy barrier.


You say that some information is needed to do that, and I assume that you would also say that information is a form of energy and so it takes energy to sort electrons, and that furthermore the information energy cannot be conserved as eventually we will run out of paper to write entries upon and so have to erase old information (this of course is the idea put forward by people before you who believe proof of the 2nd Law lies solely with information theory).


Is the above a fair summation?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2460 on: June 05, 2014, 01:51:44 AM »

Offline sarkeizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2461 on: June 05, 2014, 03:25:41 AM »
I assume that you would also say that information is a form of energy and so it takes energy to sort electrons, and that furthermore the information energy cannot be conserved as eventually we will run out of paper to write entries upon and so have to erase old information
Ah no.   The reason that's not going to be a productive conversation is because what you've outlined is an illustration not an argument.  The difference between the two is a) the reason that profitis can't believe his battery won't work forever and b) why your counter will effectively be "my thing doesn't have to do that" and c) at least few hundred pages of rather important formalisms.  Since I'm already teaching a remedial math class over in the Pi=4 thread.  I think there's a more productive path for us here.

A problem with your device is that there is almost no useful description of it's mechanism (even Lumen who was pretty far up your butt for a while appeared to acknowledge this).  So you can start by answering this question for me: Can your device's sorting mechanism be described in macroscopic terms?  i.e. the user called "register" considered that it was essentially "salmon jumping".

If not, then would you agree that the sorting mechanism for your device can essentially be described as "quantum magic".  Not to deride your amazing...some would say impossible...invention with that term.   Consider that in some contexts I'd also say: A gate-model quantum computer can factor large integers quickly through quantum magic.

Quote
This of course is the idea put forward by people before you who believe proof of the 2nd Law lies solely with information theory
The way I would say it is: Those who consider the Physical Church-Turing Thesis to be likely true which would accept an information theory proof.  If you don't then you can do what I think you're doing is postulating "substance X" which can magically decide undecidable problems.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2462 on: June 05, 2014, 03:45:04 AM »
@Sarkeizen,


Jumping Salmon is not going to do it.


I will try to explain the Sebithenco device in a few words;


Electrons having extraordinary kinetic energy (their population being significant) in room A, can escape the weak tethers (work function) that bind them, and travel to room B if they have enough remaining energy to overcome an intervening electrostatic barrier, but electrons in room B, though also having extraordinary kinetic energy, cannot do the reciprocal journey because the work function that tethers them to room B is too strong, such that there is no significant population that has sufficient energy to break their tethers and still have enough energy to overcome the intervening electrostatic barrier.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2462 on: June 05, 2014, 03:45:04 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sarkeizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2463 on: June 05, 2014, 03:58:18 AM »
Jumping Salmon is not going to do it.
Then marbles, billiard balls, whatever.  Perhaps I'm not being clear enough.  What I'm asking is: Is there any macroscopic model which accurately describes your sorting mechanism?

I think, because you appear to have to resort to talking about electrons the answer is "no".  In which case I'm going to refer to your mechanism as "quantum magic".

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2464 on: June 05, 2014, 04:04:23 AM »
@Sarkeizen,


Jumping Salmon is not going to do it.


I will try to explain the Sebithenco device in a few words;


Electrons having extraordinary kinetic energy (their population being significant) in room A, can escape the weak tethers (work function) that bind them, and travel to room B if they have enough remaining energy to overcome an intervening electrostatic barrier, but electrons in room B, though also having extraordinary kinetic energy, cannot do the reciprocal journey because the work function that tethers them to room B is too strong, such that there is no significant population that has sufficient energy to break their tethers and still have enough energy to overcome the intervening electrostatic barrier.
Mr. Hardcastle:  The magnitude of an electrostatic potential does not establish on which side of the potential where the greater energy is.  A good example of a PMM of the second kind that doesn't work for that very reason is the Brillioun diode.  Even a zero bias diode cannot harvest Johnson Noise because of this.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2464 on: June 05, 2014, 04:04:23 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2465 on: June 05, 2014, 04:04:49 AM »
The term quantum magic is silly.


It is what it is, a ratchet. It deals with individual causal events, the sum of which is a macro violation of 2LOT, clearly the individual event is not as it involves a very hot electron going to a colder region.


It is a ratchet that works, not just a theoretical one.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2466 on: June 05, 2014, 04:08:42 AM »
@MarkE, I am the first to tell people that simple diodes (vacuum or semiconductor) cannot harvest noise.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2466 on: June 05, 2014, 04:08:42 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2467 on: June 05, 2014, 04:12:31 AM »
@MarkE, I think I have given before detail of the asymmetry of the Sebithenco that leads to its ratchet nature. I see no point in listening to you tell me what cannot work when I already have lots that do. In any case there will be an announcement on the subject of commercial devices on 20th August 2014.

Offline sarkeizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2468 on: June 05, 2014, 04:18:27 AM »
The term quantum magic is silly.
Seriously?  You're going to balk over a term this early in the relationship?  So your worship...in your police-state-of-words can I say "quantum mechanism"?  Sheeesh.

Quote
It is what it is, a ratchet.
It seems pretty obvious to me that a ratchet isn't a macroscopic device which accurately describes your sorting mechanism.  If it was, a real ratchet would be able to sort things for free as well.   Which would put it head and shoulders above a quenco since it can also help me remove the water pump from a 1957 Mustang.

Calling something a "ratchet that works" is really no different than calling it "A ratchet that overcomes the problems which stop it from giving us something for nothing".  It's begging the question. :D

So with that in mind can we call it a "Quantum Mechanism" oh great and powerful Oz?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2468 on: June 05, 2014, 04:18:27 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2469 on: June 05, 2014, 04:26:20 AM »
@Sarkeizen, I chose to discuss with you on the basis that you would have some manners. Since you chose to be rude and sarcastic I will end the conversation now.

Offline sarkeizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2470 on: June 05, 2014, 04:40:34 AM »
@Sarkeizen, I chose to discuss with you on the basis that you would have some manners. Since you chose to be rude and sarcastic I will end the conversation now.
Philip, you have engaged in both shunning and mockery of myself and others on this board.  In addition you have delivered, in a somewhat public forum an actual threat to my livelihood.

I'm not a princess, I don't need to be treated like one.  Nor do I need someone forgetting to curtsy as an excuse to make a quick exit but if you think you are lecturing from some imagined high-ground here then you are sadly mistaken.

You can stay or go.  How much of your argument I take down is directly proportional to how much you are willing to show.

So is "quantum mechanism" an acceptable term?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2470 on: June 05, 2014, 04:40:34 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2471 on: June 05, 2014, 05:40:08 AM »
@MarkE, I think I have given before detail of the asymmetry of the Sebithenco that leads to its ratchet nature. I see no point in listening to you tell me what cannot work when I already have lots that do. In any case there will be an announcement on the subject of commercial devices on 20th August 2014.
Mr. Hardcastle, I have pointed out three things:

1. You appear to be arguing that your device can differentiate energy based on voltage potentials.  Is that what you are arguing?
2. That voltage potential between two points does not define relative energy.
3. That 2. is well demonstrated by Dr. Brillioun in his circa 1958 treatise on the notion of using a diode to attempt to harvest Johnson Noise.

If 1. is correct, then from 2. and 3. we should have little expectation that you have a device that can perform as a working Maxwell Demon.  You may not believe 2.  If you do not, then I suggest that you research the Brillioun diode and its close relative:  the Feynman ratchet.


Offline sarkeizen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2472 on: June 05, 2014, 06:18:23 AM »
I see no point in listening
The problem, in a nutshell.

A decent litmus for a crank is their insistence on open-mindedness...for theories that aren't theirs.

I mean look at profitis - same problem he thinks he's observed something and nothing can shake his faith.   Philip seems capable of at least entertaining the idea that profitis is wrong (assuming they're not the same person) but doubt his own ideas?  THAT'S UNPOSSIBLE.  Psychics, religious people.  Same.  Thing.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2473 on: June 05, 2014, 11:08:41 AM »
@Mark, you seem to think you know more than I do about the subject I am employed full time on for many years, you may mean well but you come across as being arrogant and condescending. I am comfortable with what I know and the people who I deal with professionally, and you should perhaps ask yourself why I have spent years and piles on money if I did not have some extreme reason for my confidence. It beggars belief that your advice would be news to me, or that you would imagine I would suddenly shout out that I have wasted the time of dozens of people, years of research when I should have just asked you.


I simply have nothing more to discuss with you, all I can show you is my success, and no doubt until 20th August you will continue to tell people that I am wrong, misguided, ignorant and a geologist, just as you seem to like telling everyone on this site with an idea that they are wrong.


Good luck in whatever it is that you are trying to achieve on this site through your perpetual presence.

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2474 on: June 05, 2014, 11:41:59 AM »
@Mark, you seem to think you know more than I do about the subject I am employed full time on for many years, you may mean well but you come across as being arrogant and condescending. I am comfortable with what I know and the people who I deal with professionally, and you should perhaps ask yourself why I have spent years and piles on money if I did not have some extreme reason for my confidence. It beggars belief that your advice would be news to me, or that you would imagine I would suddenly shout out that I have wasted the time of dozens of people, years of research when I should have just asked you.


I simply have nothing more to discuss with you, all I can show you is my success, and no doubt until 20th August you will continue to tell people that I am wrong, misguided, ignorant and a geologist, just as you seem to like telling everyone on this site with an idea that they are wrong.


Good luck in whatever it is that you are trying to achieve on this site through your perpetual presence.
Mr. Hardcastle, neither my doubts nor your confidence can change nature.  I have asked you if I understand a key premise of yours.  I don't know why you are unwilling to say yes or no.  If it is in fact your thesis that you can sort energy based on the polarity of a voltage difference, then you are at odds with Dr. Brillioun's circa 1958 paper.  Perhaps you believe that you are doing something that gets around that paper.  If I were you and had the intense interest that you show, I would want to know what I am up against.

Appeals to authority don't change nature.  As to whether you are right are wrong, the odds are not good for you.  You are making an extraordinary claim but you haven't offered evidence that supports that claim.  You have a history of doing such and coming up wrong.  The weight of evidence available to me is very much against your claim.  So, yes, I strongly believe that you are wrong and your efforts are therefore misguided.

While I am not out to agitate you, I think it is rather off that you assert that I would go back to saying I thought you were once a geologist when long ago: You corrected my honest mistake, I apologized for making it, and have not made that mistake since.

 

OneLink