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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 953461 times)

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2100 on: February 13, 2014, 08:39:07 PM »
nothing.its an ELECTRODE concentration cell thus its only the relative concentrations of 3-phase gas/electrode/electrolyte contact upon the electrodes that matter.thus the exact proportionality of the measured potential to the relative gas exposures.we can only conclude that theres two dead-stable states in the system: 1) when the two electrodes are in contact and the potential evens out and 2)when the two electrodes just sit there,seperately.thats what i mean by 2 'entropy states'

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2100 on: February 13, 2014, 08:39:07 PM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2101 on: February 13, 2014, 09:08:20 PM »
Profitis, didn't you say that this cell is an oxygen concentration cell?  Doesn't that mean that the oxygen concentration is different in the two half cells?

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2102 on: February 13, 2014, 09:15:39 PM »
yes mark.if one electrode is under the electrolyte and one slightly submerged then the oxygen concentration is very different, up to .3volts for two identical platinum foils.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2102 on: February 13, 2014, 09:15:39 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2103 on: February 14, 2014, 05:51:14 AM »
Then if the two concentrations have a communication path the concentrations each move towards equilibrium.  Why wouldn't they?

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2104 on: February 14, 2014, 09:01:08 AM »
prexactly @mark E.exactly.nothing is stopping shifting of gas,spontaneously!! :D.NOW, lets disconnect the connecting wire between the two half-cells,whats stopping the system from returning to original stability,before we short-circuited????

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2104 on: February 14, 2014, 09:01:08 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2105 on: February 14, 2014, 09:15:30 AM »
prexactly @mark E.exactly.nothing is stopping shifting of gas,spontaneously!! :D.NOW, lets disconnect the connecting wire between the two half-cells,whats stopping the system from returning to original stability,before we short-circuited????
Are you suggesting that when the external circuit is removed that the species still in communication with each other do not continue moving towards equilibrium?

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2106 on: February 14, 2014, 09:27:05 AM »
the species was in direct communion before we switched on,remember mark E. Oxygen gas was freely available to diffuse toward equal concentrations into both electrodes prior to being in electrical contact.yet it didnt.it was a very stable and persistant nernst potential.it was stable.no self-discharge..

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2106 on: February 14, 2014, 09:27:05 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2107 on: February 14, 2014, 09:53:39 AM »
the species does continue toward equilibrium after switched off @mark E.in the opposite direction.we disturbed the prior equilibrium by electrical contact!

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2108 on: February 14, 2014, 10:33:26 AM »
the species was in direct communion before we switched on,remember mark E. Oxygen gas was freely available to diffuse toward equal concentrations into both electrodes prior to being in electrical contact.yet it didnt.it was a very stable and persistant nernst potential.it was stable.no self-discharge..
Profitis, a picture would be helpful annotated with the material concentrations. 

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2108 on: February 14, 2014, 10:33:26 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2109 on: February 14, 2014, 12:14:08 PM »
heres a diagram mark E.the system totaly stable as you see it with its different o2 concentrations,nernst potential.total gas communication between electrodes,equal pressure.zero self-discharge over time.

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2110 on: February 14, 2014, 12:46:30 PM »
heres a diagram mark E.the system totaly stable as you see it with its different o2 concentrations,nernst potential.total gas communication between electrodes,equal pressure.zero self-discharge over time.
Profitis, from the picture it looks to me like the oxygen concentrations freely move toward equilibrium taking the cell potential to zero with or without an external load.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2110 on: February 14, 2014, 12:46:30 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2111 on: February 14, 2014, 01:04:40 PM »
how @mark E? O2 concentration/unit surface area of electrodes is very very different here.. 

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2112 on: February 14, 2014, 01:15:41 PM »
and why does the nernst potential persist ad infinitum if communion of gas should equalize it?

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2113 on: February 14, 2014, 01:46:21 PM »
Profitis, does the potential stay put?  It doesn't look like it should.  Do you have a reference that says that it does?

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2114 on: February 14, 2014, 02:21:15 PM »
you have permission to try it yourself mark E. You are correct,gas pumps auto-electrochemicaly down each electrode to respective depths spontaneously during open circuit off mode however respective concentrations of gas are still different.it was the smart poster lanca IV who mentioned this earlier in this thread.

 

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