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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 961907 times)

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2010 on: February 04, 2014, 10:48:47 PM »
@sarkeizen,no problemo,just stack a few slices of metal and electrolyte into a pile under hydrogen to up the voltage and leak a steady flow of smaller current at the same rate as the battery,s recharge rate and you get continuous power to your ipod
Still, only assertions and no textbook cite or formal argument.  Let me know when you get around to doing this.
Quote
how the cell mentioned in wikipedia under the name 'oxygen concentration cell'
Again, no idea what this is.  Please define, not using the term "wikipedia" or references to wikipedia.  Strange that you can't define this term or really any other term.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2010 on: February 04, 2014, 10:48:47 PM »

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2011 on: February 04, 2014, 11:06:12 PM »
@sarkeizen..no.i want to use the term 'wikipedia' because nobody beside you is complaining about it.i want to use the term wikipedia because wikipedia is trusted by the majority.i also want to use the term wikipedia because it,s a cool sounding word,wiki-wiki-pedia-wiki.we the scientific community demand you and mark E describe the role of kelvin statement in oxygen concentration cells and catalyst oxygen spillover thermodynamic cycle.NOW.before i get angry again..

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2012 on: February 04, 2014, 11:12:41 PM »
Sark... can't spell the rest of your username correctly by memory sorry..

I have a very serious question for you relating to this link:  http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/01/31/1745245/engineers-invent-acoustic-equivalent-of-one-way-glass

So the link details the acoustic equivalent of one way glass that has been built in a lab now.  Now my question is do inventions like this that are creating fundamental Assymetries that were thought to be impossible not create a glimmer of hope that a device in the same class of quentron type devices could in fact be possible? I mean I know the device itself doesn't itself necessarily violate 2LOT but to me it seems like every day brings us closer to viable 2LOT violating devices.

What is your feeling on this?
There is a big difference between a headline description and the body of an article.  The use of fans to push air back does not alter acoustic symmetry.  It continuously adds energy in one direction courtesy of the fans so that any energy traveling in the reverse direction is more difficult to detect.  It is also hard to hear what someone is saying when they are riding away from you on a bicycle even if their head is turned towards you.

Professor Sheehan from San Diego offers many reasons why the Second Law of Energy is unsatisfying.  He notes that even though other first principles have been modified over time the Second Law hasn't.  So, there are reasons that we can suspect that perhaps the Second Law is not absolute despite our experience so far that it is.  In the case of Mr. Hardcastle, his experiments can't tell us if his ideas can beat the Second Law.  If he wants to pursue his ideas he needs to design an experiment that can discern a violation.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2012 on: February 04, 2014, 11:12:41 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2013 on: February 04, 2014, 11:24:58 PM »
@mark E, naturaly.i got a vid sample here on the forum www.overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/526/ this power coming from a few mm2 active nickel-black surface plated on a nickel grid anode and silver cathode in sodium hydroxide under hydrogen. Theres quite a few documents on the related karpen,s battery floating on the net and a good one is here by camil alexandrescu for new energy journal www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/69870019 where its oxygen concentration gradient is described.the source of energy for this class of cells is heat from a single thermal reservoir,anywhere,anytime.
Your first link shows someone connecting a uA meter to a cell a few times.  What is that supposed to establish other than there is some stored energy in the cell used?  Secondly, you describe the cell as using hydrogen.  Hydrogen is just an energy store. 

If you want to test your claim that a Karpen cell violates the Second Law, then show such a cell cooling the environment.   Show that inserting a Karpen cell in a Dewar flask filled with mineral oil cools that flask while the output from the cell heats a resistor inserted into another Dewar flask filled with mineral oil where the oil in each flask starts at the same temperature.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2014 on: February 04, 2014, 11:48:31 PM »
@sarkeizen..no.i want to use the term 'wikipedia' because nobody beside you is complaining about it.
The fact is, I have absolutely no useful idea what the device you are talking about is and now you are saying, that you refuse to define the terms you are using. That seems identical to deliberately stalling the argument - yet again. :D :D :D
Quote
we the stupid community demand you
Exactly how is it reasonable to demand I refute something that you refuse to define, cite properly or argue?

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2014 on: February 04, 2014, 11:48:31 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2015 on: February 05, 2014, 12:09:39 AM »
@mark E yes,a few mm2 of H2-saturated nickel almost breaking my 100microamp meter(was roughly 0.5milliamp there).but thats the thing about videos,they dont prove anything which is why replication is the only way to go.proper replication by experienced electrochemists/physicists.your damn right hydrogen is an energy store,even by itself,no oxidizer present.your suggested test for a kelvin bust is brilliant @mark E,im impressed.one may be able to do this with just infrared cameras or sensitive thermocouples,you,l know you have a winner if the cell-side is the side that always cools down but you have to use the high-power spillover cells for this test.

Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2016 on: February 05, 2014, 12:19:48 AM »
@mark E yes,a few mm2 of H2-saturated nickel almost breaking my 100microamp meter(was roughly 0.5milliamp there).but thats the thing about videos,they dont prove anything which is why replication is the only way to go.proper replication by experienced electrochemists/physicists.your damn right hydrogen is an energy store,even by itself,no oxidizer present.your suggested test for a kelvin bust is brilliant @mark E,im impressed.one may be able to do this with just infrared cameras or sensitive thermocouples,you,l know you have a winner if the cell-side is the side that always cools down but you have to use the high-power spillover cells for this test.
The one minute video showed that there was energy stored in the cell.  It did not establish that the cell was run down and subsequently recharged.

It is well known that platinum group metals have a high affinity for hydrogen.  That fact is relied upon extensively in the petroleum industry.  It does not change the fact that it takes energy to break the chemical bonds that bind hydrogen atoms in other molecules so that one ends up with molecular hydrogen.  If one has a battery that "recharges" using molecular hydrogen, then one has a device that runs down as it consumes the molecular hydrogen.

A Dewar flask would not be very effective if one could read the internal temperature from the outside with an IR camera.  Fortunately, thermocouples and thermistors are widely available that will perform the temperature sense function.

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2016 on: February 05, 2014, 12:19:48 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2017 on: February 05, 2014, 12:21:58 AM »
sarkeizen sarkeizen,mr sarkeizen, i have already placed a diagram up for you of the mentioned wikipedia device.the temperature is 25celcius,electrolyte concentration 1m h2so4.now you have all the specs,now whats your objection going to be eyyy... Anything but kelvin rule eyyy...

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2018 on: February 05, 2014, 12:58:30 AM »
i have already placed a diagram up for you
Can I take that to mean that virtually every textbook does not contain sufficient information to necessitate the existence of eternal batteries? :D :D

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2018 on: February 05, 2014, 12:58:30 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2019 on: February 05, 2014, 01:38:19 AM »
@mark E.the one minute video didnt show the hidden magnets and watch-battery and undercarpet cable either,whats a video really worth to those who dont want to replicate?that video was just intended to show its potential power/unit area at the top of its repeatable discharge curve,thats why i didnt hold the wires down too long.its a scary amount of power for a concentration cell but understandable when you think of the effective concentration difference of hydrogen in platinum group metal surfaces(including nickel) compared to silver,gold which hardly adsorb any.its equivalent to thousands atmospheres pressure difference in concentration between the surfaces and thats the driving force for hydrogen spillover between the two electrodes and hydrogen spillover in general.atomic hydrogen shifting electrochemicaly from anode to cathode.recombination occuring on the cathode at a rate x.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2020 on: February 05, 2014, 02:00:47 AM »
 @sarkeizen grrrrrr >:(

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2020 on: February 05, 2014, 02:00:47 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2021 on: February 05, 2014, 02:25:09 AM »
@mark E.the one minute video didnt show the hidden magnets and watch-battery and undercarpet cable either,whats a video really worth to those who dont want to replicate?that video was just intended to show its potential power/unit area at the top of its repeatable discharge curve,thats why i didnt hold the wires down too long.its a scary amount of power for a concentration cell but understandable when you think of the effective concentration difference of hydrogen in platinum group metal surfaces(including nickel) compared to silver,gold which hardly adsorb any.its equivalent to thousands atmospheres pressure difference in concentration between the surfaces and thats the driving force for hydrogen spillover between the two electrodes and hydrogen spillover in general.atomic hydrogen shifting electrochemicaly from anode to cathode.recombination occuring on the cathode at a rate x.
Profitis the video was something that you linked when I asked for an example of a battery supposedly recharging itself.  The video did not demonstrate a discharge curve.  It did not demonstrate the cell's maximum power point and therefore maximum power capability.  What the demonstration did appear to show was that the cell at least had the small amount of power capability required to deflect the meter movement. 

If it is your intent to defend your claim that there are batteries that recharge themselves you need strong evidence for that extraordinary claim.

If it is your intent to defend your claim that Karpen cells violate the Second Law by removing heat from their immediate environment, then again you need strong evidence for that extraordinary claim.  At least that claim operating at room temperature can be tested without great difficulty.  Mr. Hardcastle's claim presents a difficult experiment design challenge because of the high temperature condition that his idea requires and the associated heat leakage issues.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2022 on: February 05, 2014, 02:30:47 AM »
@sarkeizen grrrrrr >:(
So in other words you concede the point?  You can't take an ordinary textbook and make your argument.

Well, you could have admitted that sooner instead of being an asshole about it. :D :D

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2023 on: February 05, 2014, 08:36:41 PM »
@mark E put me in your lab and pay me in dollars(not south african rands) and you,l see my real intent :-).im just here for mental stimulation to see if anyone can rise to my challenge and point out exactly where and how any one of my diagrammed cells will run out of juice.no one has yet risen to that challenge.no one has even risen to my challenge over 2 wikipedia instances nevermind my designs.yes i agree that it will be very easy for you to determine if the suggested higher power devices are kelvin breaches but i dont need to be convinced.i need to be un-convinced.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #2024 on: February 05, 2014, 08:54:06 PM »
@sarkeizen lol you cant take an ordinary textbook and unmake my arguments,not even with your clients daft statement :-)

 

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