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Author Topic: quentron.com  (Read 979409 times)

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1530 on: October 17, 2013, 05:53:59 PM »
@sarkeizen so if i told you to go build a zinc-air cell and that it lasts forever whats preventing you from a)building/testing it
What test unequivocally confirms "lasts forever" that doesn't take forever to do?
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or b) if your lazy at least drawing it and checking it out in theory first.
So far, what's stopping me from doing b) is you.  I've asked you questions that you can't or won't answer.
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logic enough?
Already refuted, see above.  Constructing something and imagining it runs forever is, unfortunately not the same as it running forever.  Investigating the theory seems difficult as you spend most of your time being an enormous obstructionist asshole. :D

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you havent made one single challenge on the grounds of common sense
Common sense is at best imaginary and at worst a logical fallacy.  I have made a logical argument as to why what you have provided is insufficient to make your claim.

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im telling you that a KNOWN TYPE OF CELL will not go flat ever.
Then you should be able to produce a cite from a textbook which states that clearly, unequivocally and without needing any inference that these forever batteries can be created.   I mean even if the "runs (an ipod) forever cell" was merely a curiosity of extremely limited practical value you would think it would merit a mention somewhere.  Crystal radios, don't run forever in the same sense but they ARE mentioned in physics textbooks.  I'm reasonably certain I can find a reference to a crystal radio needing no internal power in one of the two physics texts I have in my library at home (and if not I'm certain I can find such a cite faster than a moron like you).

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its on you to disprove me not me to disprove you.
Not really.  All you have is a claim: "You can make a battery that can run a device like an ipod forever".  Perhaps in EOA-world claims are exactly the same thing as a logical argument but in the real world they aren't.

What I have done, so far anyway is shown that you don't have a very good reason for making your claim and in addition I've also demonstrated that even if good reasons for believing your claim exist.  You don't believe that you should provide them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1530 on: October 17, 2013, 05:53:59 PM »

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1531 on: October 17, 2013, 06:07:10 PM »
@sarkeizen TWO maximum entropy states.TWO,2,DUO not one.an zinc-air cell has one maximum entropy state.an oxygen concentration cell has two maximum entropy states.we can expand on this when you agree with this.

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1532 on: October 17, 2013, 06:08:53 PM »
@sarkeizen we can expand on this when you agree with my above statement.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1532 on: October 17, 2013, 06:08:53 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1533 on: October 17, 2013, 07:20:03 PM »
@sarkeizen TWO maximum entropy states.TWO,2,DUO not one.an zinc-air cell has one maximum entropy state.an oxygen concentration cell has two maximum entropy states.we can expand on this when you agree with this.
@EOA - Not enough clarity.  Please provide a textbook cite that mentions the exact terms you want to use.  If you are, as usual unwilling to provide a textbook definition for your terms.  Then you have given up the argument: "the textbooks say..." and we are back to "EOA says..." and as I've mentioned you can imagine anything you want and I won't argue.  However, unlike Peter Pan happy thoughts won't make your crap fly. :D

So I win.  Thanks. :D

(I'm kind of disappointed with you giving up so easily I fully expected a hundred posts of you dancing around with "I know I'm supposed to be arguing that the textbooks say something but I will do everything in my power to avoid quoting a textbook EVER!" - that's kind of fun! I miss it already.)

(I think you secretly hate textbooks :D :D :D)

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1534 on: October 18, 2013, 02:55:51 AM »
@sarkeizen so lets do that,lets take 2 standard oxygen electrodes from the textbook at standard temperature,standard pressure,shove them both into standard electrolyte(sulfuric acid co-incidently) and change ONE variable between them,access to oxygen.so now you cant complain about parameters anymore,contexts anymore,little thingies anymore as every single thing,beside access to oxygen,is standardized kapishe? Ok? You with me so far?going smooth?any complaints?i got you by the balls now you cant escape this one.heres a typical standardized  concentration cell for you governed by standard equasions governed by standard methods by all standard textbooks.now follow through with standard procedure ... calculate using standard ways when and how equilibrium is attained,the standard way.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:08:04 PM by profitis »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1534 on: October 18, 2013, 02:55:51 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline orbut 3000

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1535 on: October 18, 2013, 03:42:48 AM »
There are upgraded specs on the quentron.com blog-ad. But the funding business didn't exist. Except on FaceBook, where it still attracts new supporters.
 ???

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1536 on: October 18, 2013, 02:28:04 PM »
@sarkeizen so lets do that,lets take 2 standard oxygen electrodes from the textbook...
@EOA - So does that mean I get a cite?
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any complaints?
Other than the above and the fact you're the first person I've met who says "from the textbook" to mean "From no textbook that I'm willing to tell you about..." which is awesome(ly stupid).
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i got you by the balls now you cant escape this one.
Dude, as I said earlier if you really have an iron-clad argument then the best thing you can do for it is actually cite the text you're talking about.   You seem to want to imagine that I'm actually trying to get out of arguing about this.  Are you really that stupid?  When Lumen can't answer a question he just drops out for a few weeks.  I've been here for a hundred posts or so.

I don't really care if I'm wrong - I'm probably not and you are likely forgetting something or using some special definition of "runs forever".  For me reloading this site every morning is like reading a "joke of the day". 

(Somewhere your high-school textbooks are crying: "EOA EOA lama sabachthani?")

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1536 on: October 18, 2013, 02:28:04 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1537 on: October 18, 2013, 03:40:51 PM »
@sarkeizen so how would i go about citing say, a zinc-carbon cell,s lifespan,or a lithium ion cell,s lifespan.easy,i just point to the rules and calculate.applies to any battery.a textbook doesnt know the differences in size of batteries so they give us a set of rules and we apply and calculate lifespans @sarkeizen.we calculate.calculate.on paper.what, you think im trying to be funny?we calculate the lifespan of ALL batteries man dont be silly.we calculate them with a calculator.we calculate them with a calculator powered by a cell that wont fail us halfway between calculations.ive cited the rules now get a-calculatin man.you mentioned schoolbooks right so use them to CALCULATE.in the real world its calculations that matter.if you want me to calculate for you i,d be willing to assist.no citation from any schoolbook will give an exact date of expiry im afraid,sorry man,but they will help us calculate it :-).thats what i meant when i said 'textbooks tell us that it runs forever'.they help us to calculate expiry dates so we gonna calculate ne!?by the rules ne?ima help you.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1538 on: October 18, 2013, 11:33:24 PM »
@sarkeizen so how would i go about citing say, a zinc-carbon cell,s lifespan,or a lithium ion cell,s lifespan.easy,i just point to the rules
@EOA - so again, does this mean I will get a textbook cite.  So far you have cited no rules.  Just one forty-word definition which was not very helpful and you absolutely refused to clarify.

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a textbook doesnt know the differences in size of batteries so they give us a set of rules
A textbook doesn't "know" anything - it's a book - just in case you haven't read one.

Your implication doesn't really hold water.  You claim that virtually any electrochemist knows how to construct a battery that runs ETERNALLY and there's not even a footnote to this effect in any text?  Even in a world which is constantly looking for better battery technologies?  No discussion of the cost-effectiveness of building a device with a battery that runs out vs. one that NEVER EVER WILL?  No use case of where ETERNAL batteries are useful?  No statements anywhere about what the practical limits of a particular technology are? Even university physics textbooks mention discuss RTG's, solar cells and crystal radios in these contexts and none of those are true "perpetual motion machines" like you make your eternal batteries out to be.

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what, you think im trying to be funny?
Of course you are, you type so carefully and deliberately badly.  It's difficult to believe you aren't trolling.

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ive cited the rules
Wrong.  The only thing you have cited is exactly, and precisely forty words off an internet site.  Nothing at all about calculating anything, nothing from a textbook, virtually nothing at all.

Which is what your argument is so far.  Pretty much zero.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1538 on: October 18, 2013, 11:33:24 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1539 on: October 19, 2013, 11:23:05 AM »
@sarkeizen well if you bothered to seriously hunt for karpen-crapster info you wouldve seen quite a few documents,not footnotes but documents,scattered around the net giving much more detailed technical surgergy than i have here.documents from well established institutions from various countries(russia,china,india)all ending with a giant question mark over the 2nd law.and thats a good question you asked,why dont these analysis documents appear in textbooks,or even on crackpot freenergy-websites for that matter,why so underground,mm.anyway i dont want to post any of them here as i dont want people jumping ahead of my own research(i think i just found the reason why they remain underground) but i,l give you this table on the properties of platinum: nature.berkeley.edu/classes/eps2/wisc/pt.html and if you check near the bottom it says that platinum wont oxidize in air at ANY temperature and it wont react with mineral acids(sulfuric,nitric,hydrochloric) so im going to trust that 2 chunks of platinum sitting in a sealed glass of airated epsom salts solution(good for piles) are going to remain pretty permanently stable for uhm,eternity.i dont know about you but i trust that info.other batteries internals change with time(self-discharge)but not this one.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 04:07:22 PM by profitis »

Offline tony3232

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1540 on: October 21, 2013, 09:35:26 AM »
yo. this is my first post ever, i hope i dont get banned for one post, but if i am so be it. just 1 quick question (because i have not read all of this thread, or at least what i see as an argument. i may come off as ignorant, because i am.), why doesn't who ever is talking about a zinc air battery that runs forever just make one? don't get me wrong, i love theories, both brilliant and crackpot ones, but i tire of seeing only theories and figures, but no product. forgive me if i am out of place, and pleeeez don't ban me, i've read some stories, and i hope they aren't true! so now....  :-X

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1540 on: October 21, 2013, 09:35:26 AM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1541 on: October 21, 2013, 09:18:13 PM »
@sarkeizen well if you bothered to seriously hunt for karpen-crapster info you wouldve seen
Someone doing your homework for you?  Sadly I'm not interested in attempting to make your point for you. :D
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why dont these analysis documents appear in textbooks
So you're now saying that textbooks DON'T predict your batteries that run forever.  Which is it? 
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i dont want to post any of them here as i dont want people jumping ahead of my own research
Dude, like every other person on OU it's almost assured that you have nothing worth selling.   Anyway your point was about textbooks.

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l give you this table on the properties of platinum: nature.berkeley.edu/classes/eps2/wisc/pt.html
You seem intent on not making your point.  Does this say that a battery can last forever?  If so, you should be able to create a FORMAL logical argument that gets you to that point.

I await you failing to do so. :D
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permanently stable for uhm,eternity.
Assuming some things that you are not qualified to assume. :D

Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1542 on: October 21, 2013, 10:36:02 PM »
@sarkeizen qualified? Lol! It is you who are assuming sir.you assume that the battery internals change over time.you assume that the internals will change over the course of the next 30million years.you assume that the platinum nuggets are not already in their minimum gibbsonian free energy state.you assume that they will magicaly somehow alter,change,become different than what they are now.not me. i declare with totalitarian certainty that they abso-f@&%ing-lutely will not change one iota over the next 30million years.i declare with totalitarian certainty that their physical micro-crystalline sufaces alter instantly as soon as you drop them in the glass and then stay that way.i declare that their surface work function differences are the same 30million years from now as what they are today.its on you to prove otherwise because anybody can build it anytime and physicaly see that i am correct.ie.you have to prove that it does not physicaly run for 30million years,at ambient temperature, in order to uphold the sacred 2nd law thermodynamics.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 08:58:31 AM by profitis »

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1543 on: October 23, 2013, 08:03:32 PM »
@sarkeizen qualified? Lol! It is you who are assuming sir.you assume that the battery internals change over time.
Not really.  The only thing that seems a reasonable assumption at this point is that textbooks don't really predict your eternal battery.  At least you have provided pretty close to zero evidence for that.
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you assume that the internals will change over the course of the next 30million years.
No, I'm saying that you have assumed that they don't.  Again, logic is one of those things that is useful to have as evidenced by your pretty severe lack of it.
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i declare with totalitarian certainty that they abso-f@&%ing-lutely will not change one iota over the next 30million years
Well we've visited the fact that you're all about totalitarianism of a sort.  No conversation can be had that you don't recognize.  No textbook cites can be given, to anyone ever for any reason even if the person is arguing that textbooks say something.  30 Million years isn't forever and you can assert all you want, beat people with truncheons who question you or whatever your particular turn on is but...

...that still doesn't make you correct or qualified to make the assertion.  :D

So about that textbook cite... :D


Offline profitis

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Re: quentron.com
« Reply #1544 on: October 23, 2013, 09:05:58 PM »
@sarkeizen  not my totalitarianism, natures totalitarianism,but it will become my totalitarianism if you dont get off your exceedingly lazy ass and build it or have somebody build it for you and put it in your pet,s, girlfriend,s or tricycle,s tracking device or something and test it.at least these articles wont just vannish ever again.  the internals dont change @sarkeizen,they dont change,they refuse to change,they simply dont change man.other batteries change with time,not this one.its got 2 entropy states,same as the proposed quenco.   

 

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