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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: 4Tesla on March 29, 2012, 08:58:09 AM

Title: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: 4Tesla on March 29, 2012, 08:58:09 AM
Anyone see this before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--ls11s6Mig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--ls11s6Mig)
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel
Post by: broli on March 29, 2012, 03:06:29 PM
This is how pranks start. Hope I'll be proved wrong.
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel
Post by: christo4_99 on March 29, 2012, 04:52:45 PM
Not saying it's a hoax but the way it's constructed with the bottom of the rim oh so close to the baseplate, there is a place there for a pinch roller . Notice when he spins the whole thing the center point is about exactly beneath the wheel (where the drive would be hidden (hole in the table ) ). Just my opinion .
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel
Post by: dutchy1966 on March 29, 2012, 06:39:04 PM
See here:  http://www.todayinsci.com/Books/MechApp/chap23/page9.htm
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 29, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
Nice. Wonder how he manage to make that wheel to run. Maybe we should ask him to repeat the experiment outdoor - on the ground, no table.
Possible explanation: The two tracks is powered by a battery. The steel ball will try to escape the magnetic field by the field around the ball, so it want to roll away, but pushes the track away instead?



Vidar
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel
Post by: Gwandau on March 29, 2012, 08:06:33 PM

christo4_99 and Low-Q,
 
I totally agree, magnet motors and gravity machines like this has to be constructed by a totally transparent non conductive material
like for example unbreakable polycarbon and the experiment must be performed on a glass table with perfect lighting, otherwise the credibility
of the whole thing will fail.
 
I would like to postulate this as a universal rule for anyone doing experiments involving permanent magnets or/and gravity,
since it is so frustrating to watch all these videos only showing parts of the mechanism or placed upon tables with an abundance
of possibilities to rig the whole thing.
 
I am really annoyed, since I am one of those that actually believe there must be a way to create the needed differential neccessary
to make these things work.

Now, since it is impossible to execute such a postulate once and for all, I will repeat this demand every single time there is anything
like that posted on overunity.com.

Gwandau
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel
Post by: 4Tesla on March 29, 2012, 08:26:00 PM
Yep.. it could be fake.. at :57 in the video there is a sound that sounds like air.  Such a nice build.. why do people spend so much time on fake motors?
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel? BUSTED
Post by: Low-Q on March 29, 2012, 09:09:13 PM
Listen to the audio track. The audio has been edited. The sound of the ball is repeating all the time. Between each repeat it is silence before you hear the "ball start rolling again". The video has probably been muted at suitable places, so we cannot hear the air blowing on the wheel, but he hadn't the tools to edit away the pause in the sound.
Probably? Well, I am quite sure.

Edit: Actually, the sound recorded at the manual spin is used to fake this video...


One of few hoax that has bee busted before reaching 2 pages on this forum  ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel? BUSTED
Post by: Energy4Power on March 30, 2012, 04:23:57 AM
Listen to the audio track. The audio has been edited. The sound of the ball is repeating all the time. Between each repeat it is silence before you hear the "ball start rolling again". The video has probably been muted at suitable places, so we cannot hear the air blowing on the wheel, but he hadn't the tools to edit away the pause in the sound.
Probably? Well, I am quite sure.

Edit: Actually, the sound recorded at the manual spin is used to fake this video...


One of few hoax that has bee busted before reaching 2 pages on this forum  ;D

Vidar

Actually, to be fair, I've done a lot of audio editing and that is the exact effect you get when you remove "white noise" from the background of an audio file.  All the spaces between sounds you want to keep, get virtually muted (or he may have manually just muted them too) by the noise removal tool.  Audacity has a fairly easy 2 step tool for doing this.  First step is to grab a very short example of nothing but the white noise, and the second step is to use that sample to remove that sound from the rest of the audio selected.

... or it could be a fake, like you said.  My personal opinion though is that the audio is no reason to disregard this video.  I would rather be suspicious over the other items mentioned above - that it wasn't done on glass, with good lighting or in several locations.  So yes... possibly fake, but not because of what I hear on the audio.

Energy4Power
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel? BUSTED
Post by: Low-Q on March 30, 2012, 10:04:01 AM
Actually, to be fair, I've done a lot of audio editing and that is the exact effect you get when you remove "white noise" from the background of an audio file.  All the spaces between sounds you want to keep, get virtually muted (or he may have manually just muted them too) by the noise removal tool.  Audacity has a fairly easy 2 step tool for doing this.  First step is to grab a very short example of nothing but the white noise, and the second step is to use that sample to remove that sound from the rest of the audio selected.

... or it could be a fake, like you said.  My personal opinion though is that the audio is no reason to disregard this video.  I would rather be suspicious over the other items mentioned above - that it wasn't done on glass, with good lighting or in several locations.  So yes... possibly fake, but not because of what I hear on the audio.

Energy4Power
Here is a sound comparison from two different places in the video. I copied one loop in left channel, and copied another loop later in the video at right channel. The visual audio output is zoomed in to easier see the comparison. Is it still any doubt that this video is a fake?
http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Fake-sound.jpg (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Fake-sound.jpg)


PS! They ar still slightly different, but that is caused by the sample rate, audio compression etc.

EDIT: Here is a sound file you can listen to. It is stereo where the two clips is on each channel. Listen to it and confirm that the sound is equal on left and right.
http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Fake-sound.mp3 (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Fake-sound.mp3)

Vidar
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: maw2432 on March 30, 2012, 12:09:34 PM
If there is an air blower near by it is not shown in video shadows.   Maybe there is also a one-way bearing being used that makes this work?
Bill
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: WilbyInebriated on March 30, 2012, 12:18:36 PM
oh here we go again... ::)
what? no skeptics hollering "it's fishing wire!"?
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Low-Q on March 30, 2012, 12:23:17 PM
If there is an air blower near by it is not shown in video shadows.   Maybe there is also a one-way bearing being used that makes this work?
Bill
If there is a one way bearing, these bearings does not run by them self just because they cannot turn the wrong way. No shadows doesn't mean that there isnt a air blower there. And it does not have to be powered by air at all. Look at the persons sweater it does not move from air blow.


The key question is: Why should he edit the sound in the video at all? It is still noisy, so it couldn't be for that reason. I see no other reason why he should but hiding any suspicious sounds from anything that powers the wheel. There is also no reason why this wheel would work at all in the first place - solely by gravity and magnetism.


However, I cannot refuse anyone to believe what they want, but I take the freedom to encourage people to use common sense.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Gwandau on March 30, 2012, 07:51:07 PM
Guys,
 
this is quite an easy experiment to validate.
Anyone with a normal garage workshop will create such a wheel in an hour, and neos do we all have.
 
I might just test it for fun. Nothing to lose but your ego, and that's not a loss worth grieving. ;D
 
Gwandau
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: ALVARO_CS on March 30, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
I experimented once with such a setup.
The ball or roller just get to the max sticking point and stays there, fixed.
Once fixed, no more movement, neither in the ball nor in the wheel
video analisys is OK but experimentation is better.
cheers
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: 4Tesla on March 30, 2012, 09:04:06 PM
I experimented once with such a setup.
The ball or roller just get to the max sticking point and stays there, fixed.
Once fixed, no more movement, neither in the ball nor in the wheel
video analisys is OK but experimentation is better.
cheers

Thank you for verifying that it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: maw2432 on March 30, 2012, 09:40:25 PM
Guys,
 
this is quite an easy experiment to validate.
Anyone with a normal garage workshop will create such a wheel in an hour, and neos do we all have.
 
I might just test it for fun. Nothing to lose but your ego, and that's not a loss worth grieving. ;D
 
Gwandau
I did this experiment with a slightly different setup several years ago and it worked only for few seconds (sometimes 10 to 15 at most.)   Very frustrating.   The steel ball slips/sticks and gets out of sync with the wheel very easily.    I suspect the video clips are from several tries and is the best that can be done with his setup.   Maybe the audio mismatch is from clipping of the video using poor quality editing software?   Also notice the magnet is held by mister hand...  slight movement of the hand may be a factor to keep the rotation as long as shown.
No continous rotation but just a few moments of excitment. 
Bill
 
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Low-Q on March 30, 2012, 10:00:11 PM
Guys,
 
this is quite an easy experiment to validate.
Anyone with a normal garage workshop will create such a wheel in an hour, and neos do we all have.
 
I might just test it for fun. Nothing to lose but your ego, and that's not a loss worth grieving. ;D
 
Gwandau
I agree, but I think it is wise to do some critical research first, and at least use some very basic math before any building attemt. Only if the math provides unconclusive results, building a machine could be the right thing to do. In this particular case, the outcome is given already before the math is done - it's that obvious.
I must, however, give the person in the video credits for a nice high tech looking device, and also for not saying a word about what it is (no OU claims). Just pity that such a gifted person uploads a misleading video.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: TinselKoala on March 31, 2012, 02:48:21 PM
.... it is wise to do some critical research first..... Just pity that such a gifted person uploads a misleading video.


Vidar
Critical research? Like looking at the web site that is the origin of the video?

Misleading? Where it is clearly explained that all the many devices that they show are models, illustrations of _impossible machines_ that do NOT work?

Why would anybody want to do that? It's much more fun to speculate without any knowledge or research or experimentation at all. Isn't it?

http://www.veproject1.org

If what you are seeing appears to violate the well-understood laws of Conservation of Momentum or the Second Law of Thermodynamics.... then you are _most probably_ misinterpreting what you are seeing, and that is the very first thing that you should rule out in your investigations. Are you interpreting what you are seeing correctly?
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 31, 2012, 03:16:05 PM
The video originally comes from this guy; veproject1

http://www.youtube.com/user/veproject1?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/veproject1?feature=watch)

He is an engineer and likes mechanical games  ;) That explains almost everything...
But.. if someone achieved oscillation of ball nearby magnet along the circle of wheel, it might supposedly work. But probably I am wrong.

Ooops... TinselKoala is ahead of me with info...
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Lakes on March 31, 2012, 04:33:34 PM
I`d like to know where the motor is hidden in this one though. :)
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Low-Q on April 01, 2012, 01:25:06 PM
Critical research? Like looking at the web site that is the origin of the video?

Misleading? Where it is clearly explained that all the many devices that they show are models, illustrations of _impossible machines_ that do NOT work?

Why would anybody want to do that? It's much more fun to speculate without any knowledge or research or experimentation at all. Isn't it?

http://www.veproject1.org (http://www.veproject1.org)

If what you are seeing appears to violate the well-understood laws of Conservation of Momentum or the Second Law of Thermodynamics.... then you are _most probably_ misinterpreting what you are seeing, and that is the very first thing that you should rule out in your investigations. Are you interpreting what you are seeing correctly?
The wheel does not violate anything, and does not work without external energy supply. I know that alteady. I posted an audio analysis image, and an audio track earlier in this thread - busted this vido big time. The question is why the inventor, or someone, faked the audio in the video by repeating audio loops instead of using the original audio from the actual video recording. The answer is uite simple: Hiding suspicious sounds from any possible external energy supply to make people like us talking a speculating about it ;) .  If he had done the audio editing properly, there would not be that short "HSSS!!" sound - typical sound from a high air pressure nozzle.


As I have mentioned earlier, the person does not write anything about it. No claims, just a video that illustrate a perpetual motion machine - if interpreted correctly...


Anyways, the wheel does not run by its own power. That's the important thing to know. The intentions behind the video isn't that interesting.


Vidar


Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: FatBird on April 01, 2012, 01:37:14 PM
.
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: ltseung888 on April 01, 2012, 05:58:37 PM
Note that the ball oscillates and rotates.
 
The rotation of the ball turns the wheel which doe not need much energy at all.
 
The oscillation will lead-out gravitational and magnetic energy.  It is similar to the pulsed pendulum.  Enegy comes from the surrounding environment and does not violate the Conservation of Energy.
 
The trick is to tune the system so that the oscillation lasts as long as possible.  The tuning requires the matching of the friction of the ball and rail, type of material of the ball, strength of the magnet, correct positioning of the magnet and others.
 
It will be fun for some to replicate it.   If I have time, I shall try to modify the two attached files to give this toy some theoretical backing.
 
 
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Rafael Ti on April 07, 2012, 02:56:59 PM
And this is what my intuition says too. What if we use a plastic roller with eclipse shaped piece of steel inside? Just to help oscillations to continue? We can also gear roller and wheel together...
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Low-Q on April 07, 2012, 03:25:29 PM
And this is what my intuition says too. What if we use a plastic roller with eclipse shaped piece of steel inside? Just to help oscillations to continue? We can also gear roller and wheel together...
No. Nature doesn't care about the shape. If oscillation occour, the movement will be around an "average point" where the ball would be if there wasn't any oscillation.
This device cannot work because there is no energy that keeps it running.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: gauschor on April 07, 2012, 09:06:22 PM
The ball or roller just get to the max sticking point and stays there, fixed.

I did this experiment with a slightly different setup several years ago and it worked only for few seconds (sometimes 10 to 15 at most.)   Very frustrating.   The steel ball slips/sticks and gets out of sync with the wheel very easily.

Would it work, if one uses some kind of "cage" to prevent the ball getting to the sticky point? See image below: the wheels must not be connected, but both must be fixed strongly to the same axis. Then a cage can be put in between the wheels to give the ball a certain bandwidth to roll up and down?

Edited Image: perhaps the "cage" needs also some "rollers" on the inside to keep the rotation of the ball continuous and not causing an abrupt stop, when the ball touches it. This would still cause a small friction though.
Title: Re: Video: Working Gravity Wheel?
Post by: Joh70 on April 07, 2012, 11:41:00 PM
maybe someone can try it
ball should be steal
magnet looks not like a neodym, maybe its pure iron magnet, old style
the wheel is probably milled out of aluminium, double sided
(aluminium has strange effects while a magnet is moved over it, although it isnot much magnetic)
the angel is approx. 45°, half of the weight is lifted by magnet,
other half lies on the wheel, so can speed it up
oscilation is important, because ball needs to push the wheel and roll at the same time and same position
a soft, kind of auto-adjusting magnetic field should be best, its the edge of the rectangled bar-magnet
someone should try it...