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Author Topic: Testing the TK Tar Baby  (Read 2008175 times)

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #390 on: April 18, 2012, 03:13:05 PM »
continued/...
4. PW's queries about the possibly blown mosfet are important and have not been answered adequately by the claimant. The correct way to answer PW's points is to GET A KNOWN GOOD MOSFET, demonstrate that it is good, and then make the waveforms shown on the scope again. This would take 5 minutes to do, and is something like what I do all the time. Many times, someone has asked me a legitimate question or made a suggestion for a test or variation, and by the next day, sometimes within the hour, I make a video showing the results.  The claimant in this case has produced NO NEW DATA OR TESTING since over a year ago, yet there are many questions that could be cleared up in moments, with a cooperative attitude and a video camera.
Nor will I.  Any further tests done on our claim will be under conditions that make our arguments unassailable.  And that will involve considerably more tests than those that you DEMAND that we perform for you.  You seem to forget that I've already advanced evidence on prior tests - that were 'replicated' and then 'denied' by various members.  I am not about to HOP SKIP and JUMP again - until we have some kind of contractual undertaking to not have our thread either 'flamed' or 'locked'.  And that the evidence presented is then full and satisfactory proof of the claim.  Which requires some homework. And when this is completed - then we will bore you all to tears with copious evidence.

5. The claimant constantly misrepresents and mischaracterises my work, lying about it even. Examples of this are on every page of this thread where the claimant has posted, especially in the last few days. One of my videos of the CVR trace was even commented on by the claimant when it was first posted.... and yet now the claimant, lying once again, pretends that they are new. Most of the "questions" from the claimant have to do with her own misrepresentations and lies about my work... witness all the accusations and ranting about "10 ohm" resistors yesterday when I said no such thing in the first place.
You CLAIM that we have misrepresented the inductance and the wattage on our resistors.  I DENY THIS.  You make a song and dance about it because you believe you can thereby FAULT our claim.  It is IRRELEVANT to our claim.  What you're trying to do here TK is capitalise on any possible error without actually first establishing IF it is an extant error - and IF that error would, in any event make any material difference to our claim.  In other words you are using 'cheap shots' to underscore your points and to cast aspersions on our competence and on our claim.  Let me remind you.  Whether the resistance of those shunts are established at 0.25 Ohms or even 6 Ohms - or any value at all - the product of that NEGATIVE VOLTAGE MEASURED ACROSS THOSE RESISTORS WOULD STILL RESULT IN A NEGATIVE WATTAGE.  That is the point of our claim.  Again.  Has this sunk in yet? 

Once again, I say that Tar Baby will perform just like NERD in the same testing.
IF your circuit is able to measure a negative voltage across your shunt - then you are INDEED in the right territory.  And THEN we would acknowledge that you MAY have replicated our claim.  Until then you MOST CERTAINLY HAVE NOT.  You have only ATTEMPTED THIS.  And failed. 
 
/...
 

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #391 on: April 18, 2012, 03:14:27 PM »
continued/...
This is my claim: If the NERD device is "overunity" then TB is too, by the same measurement methods and analyses.
WHAT measurements?  WHAT analysis?  Your tests are conducted on scopes that make it IMPOSSIBLE to do the required detailed analysis.  And the only time that you DID use an efficient DSO you very CAREFULLY avoided giving any shunt measurements AT ALL.

Is this a claim of "debunking" or "replication"? Tar Baby has already done everything that the claimant's device has ACTUALLY BEEN SHOWN to do. It is time for the CLAIMANT to stop obfuscating, and start demonstrating.  Let the claimant show that her device does something differently from Tar Baby.
Until I have finalised our agreement that you and your 'friends' CANNOT flame our thread - and that our thread will not be LOCKED or DELETED - then I will INDEED - begin setting up the required tests.  I have been bitten.  I know how you operate.  Courtesy you and your friendsy history related to our claim. 

If the claimant wishes to complain about what I'm doing with Tar Baby, the correct AND ONLY way to do it will be to show the NERD device doing something different than Tar Baby when tested in the same way. I have illustrated MANY possible tests and subtests.
So you keep telling us.  The TAR BABY is only a replication when it can REPLICATE our evidence of COP Infinity.  I am entirely satisfied that IF you've had that evidence - then you've been at some rather ponderous and transparently clumsy lengths to DENY THIS.  Therefore the TAR BABY is neither a replication NOR a debunk.  Unfortunately.

One that I would like to see right now is a confirmation of the 110 nanoHenry value cited for the inductance of the claimant's 4 ordinary 1 Ohm 10 Watt power resistors in parallel.... because my resistors of the exact same type measure 7 microHenry each. This is done on a meter that measures a known 1 microHenry inductor as 1 microHenry and a 1.5 millHenry inductor as 1.5 millHenry. In other words, the meter I used is accurate in the range used and with the measurement method I used, and I demonstrate  this for anyone to see, try for themselves and refute if they find something different.  The claimant claims that the shunt inductance of NERD is 110 nanoHenry. I question this because of readings I have made and I've asked the simple thing: for the readings to be repeated in an unequivocal manner. What is the response from the claimant? Post after post talking about some "10 ohm" resistors in her imagination and not a single responsive and substantive response. "Here's the part number of the special non-inductive resistors that look just like ordinary power resistors, and here's a video showing us measuring them on our fancy inductance meter, and here's the meter measuring a known inductance so you'll know the meter is being used correctly." That is the kind of response that a cooperative claimant would make, and that is the kind of response that I myself have made, many times. Checkable references, real data, repeatable tests, full disclosure.... these things are not forthcoming from the present claimant.
IT IS IRRELEVANT.  The inductance over the resistors vary with impedance.  And the impedance relates to the applied frequency.  If it is factored higher or lower then it makes not one whit of difference to our claim which is the evidence of a negative voltage across the shunt.  And that NEGATIVE will not change when it is factored in to the analysis of the wattage delivered by the battery supply.  Therefore this concern of yours is immaterial to our claim.  Do you even read my answers? 

A cooperative claimant would refute me with FACTS AND DEMONSTRATIONS in an afternoon. But all the present claimant can do is... claim. And this is just a single example of a subtest where Tar Baby and NERD could be compared.... if there was something that Tar Baby could be compared to.
To secure the co-operation of a claimant would require that your posts are not littered with the kind of language and abuse that would put your average criminal sociopath to shame.  One would expect a modicum of professionalism and courtesy.  Then INDEED you could complain if the claimant was not co-operative.

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #392 on: April 18, 2012, 03:15:03 PM »
continued/...
I, as a builder and tester of claims, do not have to address random insinuating questions that the claimant tosses at me, I don't have to explain where I get my test equipment and I don't have to conform to anyone's schedule ... because I am not making extraordinary claims and I'm not applying for any monetary prizes based on my claims. IF I WERE.... then I would and SHOULD be expected to answer these kinds of questions and give these explanations. But of course the present claimant will not cooperate and instead wants to obstruct. Once again, my "claim" is that Tar Baby performs just like the claimant's device in all significant respects. If the claimant wishes to demonstrate otherwise.... that is up to the claimant, and the longer she delays the worse things look for her claims. I have demonstrated that Tar Baby does do everything that the claimant's device has actually been shown to do. It is LONG PAST time for the claimant to show that her device does something that Tar Baby cannot: heat a load without discharging its batteries.
You, as a builder and tester of claims - IF that's how you see yourself - need to get some fundamental schooling relating to power analysis - which is SORELY LACKING in your building and testing.  We keep asking for evidence of this.  You keep insinuating you have provided this evidence.  Where?  In those videos? 

At the beginning of this thread I stated what it was about and what my goals and purposes are. When the thread was reopened I stated the conditions under which the claimant was welcome to post here. Among those conditions was that no claims be made WITHOUT EVIDENCE, references, data, checkable and external. Another condition was that the claimant stop misrepresenting and lying about my work. Yet the claimant has chosen not to respect these simple and reasonable conditions and has continued with her campaign of insult, non-cooperation and active hindrance of the work going on here, while at the same time making NO progress at all towards her own testing. It would take three days to determine unequivocally whether her batteries are discharging.... in other words it could have been done several times already, had she only stopped talking and started working.
My WORK has been cut out defending the insinuations that you have made related to my claim.  When those insinuations stop then I will be able to devote more time to my own tests.  Do NOT think that I'll sit back and let you misrepresent - malign - abuse - and discredit 10 years of our hard work - while you present one spurious argument after another that our claim is void.  YOU have made this my full time concern.  Not me.

This is not the place to discuss the "theories" of RA. This is a thread about testing the Tar Baby and showing that it performs like the NERD device or doesn't. I've shown many tests and variations and I've shown that there are discrepancies in the data from the NERD device that I am comparing to. The correct way to deal with these is for the claimant to DEMONSTRATE that I am wrong, if I am, by showing comparable tests and checkable, repeatable data. More talk, more claims without evidence, and especially reference to any "theory" or conjecture, is out of place and isn't helpful.
While I cannot reference our thesis then NOR is there in value in our evidence and our claim.  This requirement is ABSURD  and insulting to those many years and many hours of hard work applied to the thesis and to the proof of that thesis that is parcel of this CLAIM.  How DARE you assume the right to determine the basis of our claim?  Who do you think that you are that you can DENY the very foundation of our claim simply because you do not find it expedient?  Without that thesis - there IS no claim.  The experimental evidence was required to PROVE THAT THESIS.  NOTHING ELSE.

Let's see a simple photograph of one of the NERD resistors hooked up to an inductance meter reading 500 nanoHenry or less as the value, and another with the meter reading a known inductance correctly. For example.  I've shown a reliable reading of 7 microHenry on an apparently identical resistor, which calls into question yet another bit of data reported by the NERDs. This issue could be cleared up in moments.... and would be.... if there only were a cooperative and knowledgeable and skilful claimant involved. Instead the claimant bloviates for pages, insults my equipment, makes innuendoes and aspersions, and NEVER addresses the issue other than to resort to an appeal to authority and more claims without evidence.
I've argued this AT LENGTH.  Just go back and CHECK your facts.  This obsessive interest in the inductance of the shunts is ABSURDLY IRRELEVANT to our claim.

Regards nonetheless
Rosie Pose

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #393 on: April 18, 2012, 03:17:30 PM »
Let me list some of the real differences between Tar Baby and the NERD device.

1. TB has the same medium-duty anodized aluminium heatsinks on all 5 mosfets. These are commercial heatsinks designed for the TO-247 package and heat-transfer paste is used and the mounting bolt is torqued to spec.
The NERD has the Q1 on a small apparently improvised heatsink and the Q2s on much larger, also apparently improvised hunks of finned aluminium. I can't tell whether heat transfer paste or electrical isolation was used. Since the circuit is a common-drain circuit, electrical isolation from the heatsinks isn't necessary, but thermal paste should be used.

2. TB has sockets on both ends of cables to connect the mosfets to the motherboard. NERD uses soldered connections at the mosfet leads themselves (a potential source of damage) and clipleads terminating onto threaded rods for the Q2 connections (a potential source of noisy, high-resistance contacts) , and crimped automotive ring connectors for most of the rest of the circuit (ditto).

3. TB has 4, 1 Ohm, 10 Watt power resistors in parallel as the current viewing resistor (called the "shunt" by the NERDs). These are ordinary "cement" type wirewound ceramic-encased power resistors of the common type, ubiquitous world-wide and clearly marked. They have a reliably measured inductance of 7 microHenry each and a total stack inductance of slightly under 2 microHenry, which includes some small lead length. The NERD device uses what appear to be identical resistors... they are even marked the same, except for the manufacturer... and they are listed as such in the NERD table of materials. But the cited inductance in the NERD non-publications is given as 110 nanoHenry.... a seemingly implausibly low value, not explained or confirmed anywhere.

4. TB has a load inductance, including lead wires, of 74 microHenry. A commercial water heater load apparently comparable to the NERD load also has a measured inductance of 73-74 microHenry. The NERD device load has a stated inductance value of only a few microHenry.... also implausibly low. It is possible that this load is indeed "custom built" to achieve this low inductance value. Considering the NERD team's demonstrated difficulty with measurements and calculations, I would like to see this measurement repeated reliably and confirmed... as I just don't believe it.

5. TB has been shown to discharge its batteries when running in modes that produce measurable load heating. No comparable testing has been shown for the NERD device.

6. TB makes no claims wrt COP or overunity performance, other than that when analysed by the same methods as NERD, the same results will be obtained. NERD, on the other hand, claims overunity performance, COP>INFINITY, load heating without battery depletion, and experimental confirmation of a theory with energy coming from superluminal zipons.

7. TB can use either IRF830a mosfets or the IRFPG50. NERD is limited to the PG50 -- but I'll bet it would work just the same and give the NERDs the same results if they used the 830as.

8. TB can use a 555 timer to make a negative-going gate drive pulse and so does not need a function generator. NERD has never demonstrated running using a 555 timer, especially not in the negative-going gate drive pulse mode.

9. TB is built compactly and uses small lightweight batteries, hence could fit within the criteria of the Overunity Prize.... if it were applying, that is. The NERD device is large and uses lots of big heavy batteries, and the rules would have to be stretched (not to mention credulity) to allow it to compete in the first place.

10. TB uses a small piece of commercial circuit board material for its motherboard, with 0.1 inch hole spacing. NERD uses a much larger piece of white material that looks like thick pegboard, with 1/4 inch holes on a 1 inch grid.

These are real differences. Do they make the difference? Well... that is what side-by-side testing is designed to reveal. Unfortunately it is difficult to perform side-by-side testing when one side simply refuses to show up for the tests.

In sports... this is usually considered a default victory for the team that DOES show up.

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #394 on: April 18, 2012, 03:25:36 PM »
If one measurement or value in a paper reporting an experiment is in error or somehow otherwise incorrect.... then every other measurement is also questionable. Ainslie has shown so many incorrect calculations, interpretations, misprints, typos, mistaken claims and outright lies that YET ANOTHER apparent discrepancy hardly counts. But what it does do is show the mendacity of the claimant, who has made many errors of fact and refuses to correct them.
The present insistence that they aren't claiming overunity performance, but only "measuring" it... when those measurements have been shown to be wrong (not by me, but by .99, in exquisite detail)... is another example of the prevarication that is Ainslie's trademark.

IF YOU ARE NOT CLAIMING OVERUNITY YOU CANNOT APPLY FOR AN OVERUNITY PRIZE. And IF YOU ARE APPLYING FOR AN OVERUNITY PRIZE YOU ARE CLAIMING OVERUNITY. What is so difficult to understand about this simple fact?

And there are many places in these threads where you claim COP INFINITY or COP exceeds infinity or COP>INFINITY, even using the capitalization.
You have degenerated to the point where you cannot even maintain self-consistency.

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #395 on: April 18, 2012, 03:42:49 PM »
And as for this slew of misrepresentations.

Of course you can see that what she says in her reply to you is mostly garbage. Especially the part about "integration". The "integrations" that she has shown on the scope traces are incorrectly performed (not incorporating shunt value, not integrating the correct waveforms, not integrating over a suitable sampling interval, not accounting for probe skew, etc) and her values come from the data dumps to spreadsheet analysis, NOT live integration of proper waveforms to determine energy flows. Anyone who is familiar with the use of oscilloscopes for power measurements can confirm this, and the information that supports me is easily available from the scope manufacturers and others.
When I see you write this - then I also know how FRANTIC you are to deny our evidence.  We are all of us perfectly able to do this integration.  It's not difficult.  Yet you seem to think that it requires exceptional skills and that none of us know how to do this.  The real joke is that you HAVE NEVER performed an integrated analysis on ANY of your samples.  You can't.  You don't have a storage facility in that oscilloscope.  And the only time that you managed to access one ... YOU DIDN'T USE IT?  HOW ODD?
The "power dissipation" claims she makes are also false. There is indeed more than one way to measure power dissipated, she does not use "standard protocols" at all, and so on. But of course you know this too.
We most certainly HAVE done the appropriate power dissipation tests.  Refer to our 1st part of that 2 part paper.
Her ignorance regarding the use of the Clarke-Hess sampling integrating power meter -- an "industry standard" instrument being used exactly as designed -- is a perfect example. Instead of focusing on a real limitation (the manufacturer's cited bandwidth of accuracy) she gets muddled about how it's connected in the circuit...even though it is connected exactly as an oscilloscope (with its own CVR) is connected. In other words, she again betrays her monumental wilful ignorance of proper standard power testing protocols, while at the same time proclaiming that she knows more than anyone else about it.
I most certainly AM WELL AWARE of the Clarke-Hess bandwidth limitations.  I've referenced it here.
I think a serious lack of the CH 2330 is that it does not have the bandwidth to deal with the oscillation frequency. At best it's an approximation - and you have not shown us the wattage number in the second picture unless the CH 2330 has calculated the battery voltage at plus/minus 7 volts.  Or unless that number now represents something else?  You do not specify this..
I can easily accept that the readings of the CH may be off by a few percent due to the bandwidth accuracy limitation. However, it is being used correctly and it's monitoring the same circuit "input" point as the NERDs monitor, and in addition it also monitors something they did not: the power _delivered_ to the load. Stated another way, it is monitoring the power drawn by the load, or yet another way.... the power that must be dissipated in the load. The CH's accuracy in this regard has been rigorously tested USING A CALORIMETER-- a real one -- and the CH's readings of power dissipation by the load agree with calorimetric measurements. Call the bandwidth into question: OK, that is a real issue, an empirical one, and can be addressed by calibration against standards. Call the hookups and the basic methodology and basic accuracy into question -- that's just ignorant whining and is without merit.
Rigorous calibrations?  Really?  And then it's out by a small percentage?  PLEASE?  And let me re-iterate TK.  Here....
I think a serious lack of the CH 2330 is that it does not have the bandwidth to deal with the oscillation frequency. At best it's an approximation - and you have not shown us the wattage number in the second picture unless the CH 2330 has calculated the battery voltage at plus/minus 7 volts.  Or unless that number now represents something else?  You do not specify this..

It's all SPIN.  Nothing but spin in a rather frantic effort to deny our claim.  And even now you have NOT addressed our claim.  Only something that you infer may be related to our claim.  LOL.  And by LOL MileHigh, I mean 'Dear God'.

Rosie Pose

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #396 on: April 18, 2012, 03:48:48 PM »
Now TK - I've taken the trouble to plow through the last two pages answering your questions.  Have the courtesy to answer mine.  Here it is again.

Hello TK,

Nice to see you around.  I wonder if you could perhaps take the trouble to address this post.  Then I'll move on to the other three video references.  Because I KNOW how badly you want to keep your thread topical.

Rosie Pose

Your first video referenced 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NevE0FqoRKA
Tek DPO meets Tar Baby for a Play Date
.  Why did you not use that DPO's DISPLAY facility to show the voltage values across the CSR?
.  It's really easily managed.  Yet you didn't see some need for this?
.  Or is that display there?  In the right hand corner at the top?
.  Where the value moves from negative to positive in line with the variations to the offset?
.  But for some reason you kept this out of focus?
.  ALWAYS
.  And WHY did you not use that DPO's MATH FUNCTION to show the product of the battery and shunt values?
.  When this would have got to the heart of the matter
.  so easily?
.  And that trick with the ground?
.  And all that INSINUATION?
.  Are you forgetting those wonderful grounding features of that Tek DPO 4034?
.  Therefore the circuit is only finally open
.  Or the the battery is only entirely disconnected
.  When you ALSO disconnect that wonderful little machine?
.  Shouldn't you have explained this?
.  Instead of implying that there were 'grounding' issues?
.  I'd have thought?
 
If I didn't know better I'd be inclined to think that you were relying on these omissions to try and 'imply', 'infer' or 'allege' a 'debunk'?  Surely not?  I'm sure you'd never be guilty of insulting our readers' intelligence with such OBVIOUS tactics.  :o It is hardly likely that you'd go to such inordinate lengths to try and hoodwink anyone at all - that our claim has no merit.  It's not your style.  I see that now.

Regards TK
Rosie Pose

By the way (BTW) - I was MOST intrigued with that background setting where you accessed that machine.  Is that a warehouse?  Full of equipment?  Did you officially register your loan of it?  For that little video of yours?  I'd give my eye teeth to know who the owner is.   

ADDED[/glow

fuzzytomcat

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #397 on: April 18, 2012, 07:25:51 PM »
Then use a separate battery.  And monitor it's voltage to determine the output.  That's simple.
Our impedance was determined by measurements made by 'EXPERTS' on excellent and calibrated machines from well respected laboratories.  And whether their inductance values are greater or less - will not make an ounce of difference to the negative value of the current flow determined from the voltage across those shunts.  And it is that negative current flow that predominates each cycle that is of interest and is the entire substance of the claim.
We do NOT claim COP> INFINITY.  We MEASURE COP Infinity.  That's NOT the same thing.  We argue - if you took the trouble to read our paper - that there's a second energy supply source.  Which means that well established measurement protocols DO NOT APPLY.  What's needed is acknowledgement of an alternate energy supply source.  THEN - there would be no further EVIDENCE of COP Infinity. But then we do not know how to measure the energy.  Any more.  Because those new protocols need to be forged by EXPERTS TK.  Not by you.  As it is you can't even get your head around this distinction.  And to this end we have written that paper.
IF there is an alternate supply of energy that has, heretofore, NOT been factored into power analysis - then the EVIDENCE would be that we would have exceeded unity.  The prize is offered for over unity.  Therefore we would most certainly qualify for any over unity prize.  Whether or not we demand that prize is immaterial.  It's our qualification for that prize that's at issue.  Because when the 'new energy source' is accepted - then too the there will be no further resistance to the possibility.  It will become widely accepted and widely applied.  And THAT's our real prize.  Nothing else.

/...

continued/...Nor will I.  Any further tests done on our claim will be under conditions that make our arguments unassailable.  And that will involve considerably more tests than those that you DEMAND that we perform for you.  You seem to forget that I've already advanced evidence on prior tests - that were 'replicated' and then 'denied' by various members.  I am not about to HOP SKIP and JUMP again - until we have some kind of contractual undertaking to not have our thread either 'flamed' or 'locked'.  And that the evidence presented is then full and satisfactory proof of the claim.  Which requires some homework. And when this is completed - then we will bore you all to tears with copious evidence.
You CLAIM that we have misrepresented the inductance and the wattage on our resistors.  I DENY THIS.  You make a song and dance about it because you believe you can thereby FAULT our claim.  It is IRRELEVANT to our claim.  What you're trying to do here TK is capitalise on any possible error without actually first establishing IF it is an extant error - and IF that error would, in any event make any material difference to our claim.  In other words you are using 'cheap shots' to underscore your points and to cast aspersions on our competence and on our claim.  Let me remind you.  Whether the resistance of those shunts are established at 0.25 Ohms or even 6 Ohms - or any value at all - the product of that NEGATIVE VOLTAGE MEASURED ACROSS THOSE RESISTORS WOULD STILL RESULT IN A NEGATIVE WATTAGE.  That is the point of our claim.  Again.  Has this sunk in yet? 
IF your circuit is able to measure a negative voltage across your shunt - then you are INDEED in the right territory.  And THEN we would acknowledge that you MAY have replicated our claim.  Until then you MOST CERTAINLY HAVE NOT.  You have only ATTEMPTED THIS.  And failed. 
 
/...

continued/...WHAT measurements?  WHAT analysis?  Your tests are conducted on scopes that make it IMPOSSIBLE to do the required detailed analysis.  And the only time that you DID use an efficient DSO you very CAREFULLY avoided giving any shunt measurements AT ALL.
Until I have finalised our agreement that you and your 'friends' CANNOT flame our thread - and that our thread will not be LOCKED or DELETED - then I will INDEED - begin setting up the required tests.  I have been bitten.  I know how you operate.  Courtesy you and your friendsy history related to our claim. 
So you keep telling us.  The TAR BABY is only a replication when it can REPLICATE our evidence of COP Infinity.  I am entirely satisfied that IF you've had that evidence - then you've been at some rather ponderous and transparently clumsy lengths to DENY THIS.  Therefore the TAR BABY is neither a replication NOR a debunk.  Unfortunately.
IT IS IRRELEVANT.  The inductance over the resistors vary with impedance.  And the impedance relates to the applied frequency.  If it is factored higher or lower then it makes not one whit of difference to our claim which is the evidence of a negative voltage across the shunt.  And that NEGATIVE will not change when it is factored in to the analysis of the wattage delivered by the battery supply.  Therefore this concern of yours is immaterial to our claim.  Do you even read my answers? 
To secure the co-operation of a claimant would require that your posts are not littered with the kind of language and abuse that would put your average criminal sociopath to shame.  One would expect a modicum of professionalism and courtesy.  Then INDEED you could complain if the claimant was not co-operative.

continued/...You, as a builder and tester of claims - IF that's how you see yourself - need to get some fundamental schooling relating to power analysis - which is SORELY LACKING in your building and testing.  We keep asking for evidence of this.  You keep insinuating you have provided this evidence.  Where?  In those videos? 
My WORK has been cut out defending the insinuations that you have made related to my claim.  When those insinuations stop then I will be able to devote more time to my own tests.  Do NOT think that I'll sit back and let you misrepresent - malign - abuse - and discredit 10 years of our hard work - while you present one spurious argument after another that our claim is void.  YOU have made this my full time concern.  Not me.
While I cannot reference our thesis then NOR is there in value in our evidence and our claim.  This requirement is ABSURD  and insulting to those many years and many hours of hard work applied to the thesis and to the proof of that thesis that is parcel of this CLAIM.  How DARE you assume the right to determine the basis of our claim?  Who do you think that you are that you can DENY the very foundation of our claim simply because you do not find it expedient?  Without that thesis - there IS no claim.  The experimental evidence was required to PROVE THAT THESIS.  NOTHING ELSE.
I've argued this AT LENGTH.  Just go back and CHECK your facts.  This obsessive interest in the inductance of the shunts is ABSURDLY IRRELEVANT to our claim.

Regards nonetheless
Rosie Pose

And as for this slew of misrepresentations.
When I see you write this - then I also know how FRANTIC you are to deny our evidence.  We are all of us perfectly able to do this integration.  It's not difficult.  Yet you seem to think that it requires exceptional skills and that none of us know how to do this.  The real joke is that you HAVE NEVER performed an integrated analysis on ANY of your samples.  You can't.  You don't have a storage facility in that oscilloscope.  And the only time that you managed to access one ... YOU DIDN'T USE IT?  HOW ODD?We most certainly HAVE done the appropriate power dissipation tests.  Refer to our 1st part of that 2 part paper.I most certainly AM WELL AWARE of the Clarke-Hess bandwidth limitations.  I've referenced it here.Rigorous calibrations?  Really?  And then it's out by a small percentage?  PLEASE?  And let me re-iterate TK.  Here....
It's all SPIN.  Nothing but spin in a rather frantic effort to deny our claim.  And even now you have NOT addressed our claim.  Only something that you infer may be related to our claim.  LOL.  And by LOL MileHigh, I mean 'Dear God'.

Rosie Pose

Look everyone on the content of all nonsense postings above that wasn't even directed towards Rosemary and are you also tired of getting a "NOTIFICATION" with each posting after posting on the same subject matter from Rosemary whom cannot put everything in one post.

This trash from Rosemary has been posted over and over again in the "LOCKED DOWN" thread http://www.overunity.com/11675/another-small-breakthrough-on-our-nerd-technology/  with a couple things in common. Rosemary has only learned how to falsify documentation a YouTube video and cherry pick information to justify her THESIS.

Where are all the so called EXPERTS of Rosemary's or the authors of her falsified papers and YouTube video.

Rosemary the SUPER TROLL is nothing but another fraud like "MyLow" http://pesn.com/2009/05/19/9501542_Fish-line_discovered_in_Mylow-magnet-motor/  ..... plain and simple   :o

If "BANNING" her is not a option for some odd unknown reason, Rosemary should have all her postings "moderated" to weed out her lies and force her to some how stay on topic.


FTC
 ???

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #398 on: April 18, 2012, 09:32:16 PM »
I'm tired of this nonsense. Now she's comparing me to a criminal sociopath-- when HER endless series of lies and distortions leaves an indelible trail of slime behind her.

Rosemary has no right whatsoever to ask me any questions about what I'm doing with Tar Baby at all... since she denies it's a replication and I have also explicitly stated that it's not a replication... it's a duplication. Rosemary, on the other hand, has a clear OBLIGATION to address any and all issues about her work that might be raised, however and whenever and however frequently and by whom they might be raised... because it is SHE who is making the extraordinary claim on insufficient evidence.

She particularly has no right whatsoever to demand measurements from me that she has not performed or published herself, nor does she have any right whatsoever to dictate or question my scheduling of tests.

Neither does she have the knowledge or the right to criticise my video demonstrations, as each and every one of them is designed to address and illustrate one or two particular points that are clearly articulated and do not contain claims having to do with the Ainslie circuit ... they only _relate_ to it.

She most particularly does not have the right to fill pages of thread with irrelevant rants and continued lies and distortions.

Therefore...until further notice...

Further discussion of Tar Baby testing, NERD claims and discrepancies, and so on can continue.... on my YouTube channel, in the comment sections of the associated video demonstrations. If there's anything that doesn't fit into a comment under a video, you can PM me on YT.

In this thread... I will continue to say one thing: Ainslie will never show a definitive test of her claims. PROVE ME WRONG.

ETA: I am fairly certain that there are more people reading this website that would love to see ME fail and fall on my face in the dirt.... more people, in other words, who are against me in some way than are supporters of my viewpoint. There are probably more people that want Ainslie to be successful than want me to be. All right then... GET CRACKING, you lot. PROVE ME WRONG with your own demonstrations and tests. JUST DO IT, there will be plenty of people watching and egging you on. PROVE ME WRONG about what I assert with regard to TarBaby, instrumentation, oscilloscopes, power meters, Ainslie and her circuit, or the nature of gamma rays or the fire on the surface of the sun. PROVE ME WRONG.

Or stfu.

powercat

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #399 on: April 18, 2012, 09:59:37 PM »
TK,
she is incapable of proving you're wrong and she has no supporters anymore that's why she keeps barking at you, on and on and on, the only power she has is Over Lunacy

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #400 on: April 18, 2012, 10:40:14 PM »
I'm tired of this nonsense. Now she's comparing me to a criminal sociopath-- when HER endless series of lies and distortions leaves an indelible trail of slime behind her.  Rosemary has no right whatsoever to ask me any questions about what I'm doing with Tar Baby at all... since she denies it's a replication and I have also explicitly stated that it's not a replication... it's a duplication. Rosemary, on the other hand, has a clear OBLIGATION to address any and all issues about her work that might be raised, however and whenever and however frequently and by whom they might be raised... because it is SHE who is making the extraordinary claim on insufficient evidence.

She particularly has no right whatsoever to demand measurements from me that she has not performed or published herself, nor does she have any right whatsoever to dictate or question my scheduling of tests. Neither does she have the knowledge or the right to criticise my video demonstrations, as each and every one of them is designed to address and illustrate one or two particular points that are clearly articulated and do not contain claims having to do with the Ainslie circuit ... they only _relate_ to it.

She most particularly does not have the right to fill pages of thread with irrelevant rants and continued lies and distortions. Therefore...until further notice... Further discussion of Tar Baby testing, NERD claims and discrepancies, and so on can continue.... on my YouTube channel, in the comment sections of the associated video demonstrations. If there's anything that doesn't fit into a comment under a video, you can PM me on YT.

In this thread... I will continue to say one thing: Ainslie will never show a definitive test of her claims. PROVE ME WRONG.

ETA: I am fairly certain that there are more people reading this website that would love to see ME fail and fall on my face in the dirt.... more people, in other words, who are against me in some way than are supporters of my viewpoint. There are probably more people that want Ainslie to be successful than want me to be. All right then... GET CRACKING, you lot. PROVE ME WRONG with your own demonstrations and tests. JUST DO IT, there will be plenty of people watching and egging you on. PROVE ME WRONG about what I assert with regard to TarBaby, instrumentation, oscilloscopes, power meters, Ainslie and her circuit, or the nature of gamma rays or the fire on the surface of the sun. PROVE ME WRONG.

Or stfu.

Are you seriously proposing that I do not defend our work and my good name against an attack from you?  Are you proposing that you are entitled to denigrate our work and our claim and my name - unchallenged?  I'm not sure that you could EVER justify that TinselKoala - not EVER.  And certainly not when you resort to slanderous comments and less than satisfactory scientific arguments.  These are the options.  You take my posts that are required for defense or your stop posting at a level that requires that defense.

Of course my challenges are unacceptable to you.  They contradict your allegations with scientific argument.  Repeatedly. 

Rosie Pose


TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #401 on: April 19, 2012, 01:27:01 AM »
Again you lie, plain and simple.

Not once, not ONE SINGLE TIME, have you been able to refute me with a demonstration, a checkable reference, or actual data. NEVER NOT A SINGLE TIME.

Yet I have refuted you over and over and over. You have been wrong about many things you've said, and I and others have proved it.

And your "papers" have nothing to do with science at all. You have no idea what the scientific method consists of. You have never tried to RULE OUT your "hypothesis", you have only tried to prove it. And failed miserably, by the way.

How long did it take you finally to admit that your 25.6 million Joules calculation was bogus? Do you still maintain that One Joule = One Watt Per Second? When will you retract your conclusion that was based on the incorrect calculation?

When will you admit that you lied about the circuit diagram, several times? When will you admit to the many lies in the video demonstration?

When will you admit that NOBODY is coming to your aid in support?

When will you admit that you, right now, are LYING about "not claiming overunity or COP>infinity"?

WHEN WILL YOU DO YOUR TEST? Never, that's when.

WHEN WILL YOU STOP LYING? Never, that's when.

MileHigh

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #402 on: April 19, 2012, 02:06:33 AM »
Wow, give me a mosh pit or give me a padded room!

Rosemary:

Quote
We argue - if you took the trouble to read our paper - that there's a second energy supply source.  Which means that well established measurement protocols DO NOT APPLY.  What's needed is acknowledgement of an alternate energy supply source.

There is no "second energy supply source."  You are just an amateur little old lady with fantasies of zipons that can't punch her way out of a wet paper electronics bag.

Change your batteries for much smaller fresh and new batteries and do some load tests and finally kill this and put this nonsensical obsession to bed.  This whole time you have never done any proper battery load testing and you have been tricked by an improperly done DSO measurement.  You have also been tricked by the fact that you have been using very large batteries that you never load tested.  Even the most expensive DSO in the world is only as good as the person using it.

Quote
  Me:  You never actually tried to use alternative methods of making power measurements to confirm or deny that highly suspicious measurement.

You:  There is only one way to measure power delivered and power dissipated.  Well established measurement protocols.  They can't be improved on.

Bullshit, your comment is garbage and you cling to it for dear life.   You try to awkwardly deny the whole scientific method when you say, "They can't be improved on."  Bullshit again, you and your whole team have been repeatedly exposed as borderline clueless rank amateurs.

There are only two possible ways I can see this ending for you:

1.  You do a second round of tests and to your shock you confirm that the batteries are discharging.  Shades of the LEDs of DOOM.  Then you fade into obscurity.

2.  You do a second round of tests and no matter what you insist that you have "discovered a second energy supply source."  Then you fade into obscurity.

Trust me, a woman that can't even understand the fact that power is dissipated in a resistor as long as there is current flow is never ever going to see one of her ridiculous papers published.  Not in a million years.

There is no happy ending for you Rosemary because this is all nonsense.

MileHigh

TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #403 on: April 19, 2012, 02:30:03 AM »
Things she's said that aren't true: (I found so many in just this thread alone that I got tired of it before I was even halfway through.) Items in RED are direct cut-pastes from her posts.. in other words, her own words.

1. I've now FINALLY checked their rated capacities.  They're 40 ampere hours each.

No...they aren't. They seem to be 50 or perhaps even 60 amp-hours each.

2. Joules = 1 watt per second.

Er.... no. One Watt is one Joule per second. One Joule is one WattSecond. Very different and not mathematically equivalent at all.

3. So.  Do the math.  4.18 x 900 grams x (82 - 16) 66 degrees C = 248 292 joules per second x 90 minutes of the test period = 22 342 280 joules.  Then ADD the last 10 minutes where the water was taken to boil and now you have 4.18 x 900 grams x (104 - 16) 88 degrees C = 331 156 joules per second x 10 minutes = 3 310 560 Joules.  Then add those two values 22 342 280 + 3 310 560 = 25.6 Million Joules.

Er... do the math. This calculation is completely wrong in at least three different ways.

4. They are still at OVER 12 volts EACH.  They are all of them still FULLY CHARGED.

A nominal "12 volt" battery of the type used by Ainslie will indicate well over 13 volts when fully charged, and will not drop below 12 volts until nearly completely DISCHARGED. So the fact that the batteries are still OVER 12 volts is actually evidence that they are substantially DISCHARGED... or they would be over 13 volts each, not 12.

5. In that test alone the battery outperformed its watt hour rating.

Er... only if you use the bogus 25.6 megaJoule figure. Using the correct figure the battery could have performed 10 such tests without depleting its charge. Yet RA has never retracted this claim. Therefore... since she knows the 25.6 megaJoule figure is wrong.... it is a continuing and outrageous lie.



6. Correctly it is one Joule per second - but since 1 watt = 1 Joule and since 1 Joule = 1 watt per second - then AS I'VE EXPLAINED EARLIER - the terms are INTERCHANGEABLE.  Which is ALSO explained in WIKI.

Read the explanation in Wiki again. One Watt is not One Joule and one Joule is not one Watt per second, and the terms are NOT interchangeable, and the WIKI explains it correctly and RA once again is distorting the reference and lying about her claim.

7. Its a pity though that we cannot get ANY oscillation without the circuit linked to our batteries.

But previously she said, "That oscillation MOST CERTAINLY occurs while the battery is disconnected."

and

"We have a circuit that generates a ROBUST self-sustaining oscillation that persists for the duration that a battery is entirely disconnected from the circuit." These statements cannot all be true... so one or more of them is a lie.

8. Unless you've removed the video from the link that I posted - or unless you've changed that video - YOU MOST CERTAINLY have been monitoring the load resistor.  Or so you said in that video.   And if you were monitoring the shunt - THEN WHY WERE YOU RELATING IT TO THE VOLTAGE ACROSS THE TRANSISTOR?  And WHY did you identify it as the load?  And WHY have you EVER taken voltages across the load?

The real joke is this.  You complained that we don't take voltages across the load.  Explain this.  IF YOU DARE.


I have never once taken the voltage "across the load resistor". In fact without isolated probes or a differential voltage probe, you cannot monitor voltage across the load, because it is "high-side switched" and doesn't connect directly to the negative common ground point. I never said in the video any such thing... what I ALWAYS say is that I am monitoring the common mosfet drains, on the transistor side of the load. And neither have I ever "complained" any such thing. I have said that they are not typically showing the mosfet common drain voltage... a very different thing altogether.


9. TK has not obliged us with ANY measurements. 

This is false. I have posted many videos containing precise measurements of many quantities.

10. This is not clear.  Where on the circuit have you put the CH2330?  In the NERD circuit the load is clearly indicated in a schematic.  You have given us a multiple and optional reference with no clarity at all.  Have you put the CH2330 on either side of the battery?  At its positive terminal and then its negative terminal?  Or have you put the CH2330 on the near and then far side of the load in series with the positive terminal?  If the former - then the readings should be co-incident.  If the latter then the readings bear no relevance to the 'input' and 'output' as you claim.  And if you are drawing a distinction between the input and the output then exactly what are you distinguishing?  To me that amperage value looks like the 'sum' of both the input and the output.  In which case?   On our NERD circuit, the sum of our voltages gives us a current flow that shows considerably more back to the battery than delivered by the battery.  Which is a negative voltage value.  If your Ch2330 is not showing a negative current flow resulting from that negative voltage sum then you have not replicated our values. Nor have you replicated our waveform across the batteries. In which case I would expect your batteries would discharge.  And our range of battery oscillation is considerably greater than that shown on your circuit.  Which gives our circuit considerably more advantage over both cycles of each oscillation.  I suspect that your lack of voltage may be because your load is not sufficiently inductive.  And there is no consistency between each oscillation period - the one varying from the other.  Therefore is there no consistency in the claimed results.  That's the pivotal requirement related to any claimed measurement. 

This entire post is full of lies, distortions and inaccuracies. I have shown very clearly, before this post, where and how the CH is used in the circuit. I have indeed replicated the waveform on the batteries. And that part about my load "not sufficiently inductive" is a real howler... since my load is 74 microHenry and hers is CLAIMED to be only a couple of microHenry. And there certainly is consistency in my results. I can turn the system on and make ANY of the illustrated waveforms immediately...because I understand the circuit.


11. The battery oscillations do not have the same amplitude. And I suspect it's because you're using a less inductive load resistor.

Two at once. Clearly my battery oscillations DO have the "same amplitude", as demonstrated in several videos,  and clearly... my load resistor is 74 microHenry, which is MORE INDUCTIVE than the (unbelievable) 2.23 microHenry they claim to have used.

12.  Our paper - which represents the whole of our claim - shows repeated experimental evidence of more energy being returned to the battery than being discharged from the battery.  This results in a negative wattage.  We present that negative wattage as evidence of an anomaly.
If you do not find a negative wattage, therefore, then you have not replicated our circuit.  It's that simple.


False.
The unpublished, many times rejected draft document that RA calls a "paper" has many errors in it. The data and measurements are full of errors. RA does not show any evidence of what she claims, she shows errors in data collection, analysis and interpretation. There is no experimental support for her claims in the "papers". And I am not required to repeat her errors in order to replicate her circuit.


13. We do not claim over unity.

This is clearly false, as you have claimed overunity many times. In English, claiming that the batteries do not discharge while doing useful work is CLAIMING OVERUNITY. Applying for an Overunity Prize on an Overunity website... is claiming OVERUNITY.

That gets us up to about page 23 of this thread. There are more lies and false statements from RA yet to come.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some quotes from the demo video, said by the presenter with RA standing behind him:
Quotes from the video, the unnamed presenter speaking, words in red:

1) 0:20- "The circuit diagram before you is a replication of what exists on the experimental setup"

This is false.

2) 0:30: "What we have is 5 mosfets mounted in parallel

This is false.

3) 1:59: "C represents the input to the gates of the mosfet" as he gestures to the board.

Another false statement. The function generator is seen to be connected to point F by the red alligator clip.

4) 2:05:  "F WOULD BE THE DRAIN, THE COMMON DRAIN..."

Rosemary has claimed that the common drain voltage isn't shown in this video, and that the GREEN trace does not represent the mosfet common drain. But it is, and it does.

5) 3:09  (stuttering a bit and mumbling) "we can see the battery voltage mumble mumble roughly sixty two volts, BEARING IN MIND we have 5 twelve volt batteries so theoretically we should have'bout sixty volts but thats.... mumble."

That's another lie, is what he's trying to say.

Of course we know that a fully charged 12 volt battery of this type should measure well over 13 volts so the stack of five should be at about 65 volts if it were fully charged. The fact that the meter indicates 62 volts isn't as much of a mystery to me as it evidently is to the presenter-- as it actually indicates that the batteries are substantially DISCHARGED.. or they would have been over 65 volts.

6) 3:53:  "AND THE GREEN of course the actual drain, drainback (mumbles) .. the the drain voltage."

Again... Ainslie has berated and castigated me several times for saying that the Green trace in this video is the common mosfet drain voltage.

Ainslie makes no corrections to the presenter's narration... and thus is responsible for the lies in the video demo.


QED: she lies and distorts my work, my data, her own data, external references, the things other people say and do... all of it. None of what she says can be trusted in any context. None of it.

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #404 on: April 19, 2012, 07:34:05 AM »
Guys, 

I suppose I need to comment on this post from MileHigh as well.  I'll try and keep it brief as possible.  It's only topical in as much as it's not scientific.  Science has never been the issue on this thread.
Wow, give me a mosh pit or give me a padded room!
Not sure that this is relevant.  Presumably you're commenting on your mental stability?
There is no "second energy supply source."  You are just an amateur little old lady with fantasies of zipons that can't punch her way out of a wet paper electronics bag.
Not sure that this is accurate.  I'm not little.  I'm 5ft 9" and then some. I have no 'fantasies' related to zipons. I have a proposal that requires the existence of these particles.  And I'm managing to punch some serious holes in TK's arguments.  The only accurate statement here is that I'm old and that I'm an amateur.  I keep really good company in both categories.
Change your batteries for much smaller fresh and new batteries and do some load tests and finally kill this and put this nonsensical obsession to bed.  This whole time you have never done any proper battery load testing and you have been tricked by an improperly done DSO measurement.  You have also been tricked by the fact that you have been using very large batteries that you never load tested.  Even the most expensive DSO in the world is only as good as the person using it.
We certainly used batteries with exceptional capacity.  And you're right.  We have not tested these to their duration.  BUT.  There is no way that you, nor TK nor anyone at all can misrepresent the results from a good oscilloscope.  Just can't be done.
Bullshit, your comment is garbage and you cling to it for dear life.   You try to awkwardly deny the whole scientific method when you say, "They can't be improved on."  Bullshit again, you and your whole team have been repeatedly exposed as borderline clueless rank amateurs.
This comment is slanderous, unqualified and unprofessional.  Which also means that it is very much 'on topic' with this thread.
There are only two possible ways I can see this ending for you:

1.  You do a second round of tests and to your shock you confirm that the batteries are discharging.  Shades of the LEDs of DOOM.  Then you fade into obscurity.
2.  You do a second round of tests and no matter what you insist that you have "discovered a second energy supply source."  Then you fade into obscurity.
This indicates that the thread topic now also includes the art of prophesy.  Which makes it surprisingly appropriate - on a great many levels.
Trust me, a woman that can't even understand the fact that power is dissipated in a resistor as long as there is current flow is never ever going to see one of her ridiculous papers published.  Not in a million years.
I agree.  Fortunately I am not such a woman.
There is no happy ending for you Rosemary because this is all nonsense.
I'm not looking for happy endings MileHigh.  I'm looking for happy beginnings.  And that's where our experimental evidence points.

Kindest regards,
Rosie Posie