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Author Topic: Testing the TK Tar Baby  (Read 1498535 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2012, 05:09:38 AM »
TK,

Regarding the alternate bias using the first batt tap (+12v), you will have to either remove Q1 or tie its gate to it's source and Q2's gate will have to be isolated from the rest of the circuit.  I.e., pull Q1 out and then hook up the 12V via 100K or better to the Q2 gate.  The 50R can go across the current FG terminals (between Q2 source and the CSR).  That should give you similar DC bias conditions for Q2, but as I said, at AC things get a bit muddied.
OK that makes sense, and I'll try it that way after dinner.
Quote
Do you have a rough idea as to the frequency of the osc? 
A rough idea, yes. The scope says that there are nine full cycles PER 2 microseconds. Doing the math (tm RA), we find 9/0.000002 is equal to 4.5 MHz and the unit dimensions agree. (sorry, I couldn't resist).  But the Philips PM6676 counter reports a period of 254 nanoseconds or a frequency of 3923 kHz, give or take. Maybe my scope's timebase is a bit off at that freq, although it checks out with its own calibrator at 10 kHz. It's a miracle that it can resolve the fast oscs at all. I'm using the delayed trigger function to get them displayed stably. I trust the Philips implicitly.

Quote
I am not so sure the LED's in the video were lighting due to AC current through the CSR in the "traditional" sense.  Assuming 1.4V turn on for the LED's, that would require about 5.4 amps going thru the CSR, yet you say the load barely warms during the osc.

What happens to the LED's if you touch them with your fingers while the circuit is oscillating?
Touching it pretty much anywhere, or waving hands around, affects the oscs and can kill or start them. No oscs, no bidirectional current flow in the LEDs.
Quote
Have you looked at the CSR with a scope channel during the osc?  Does it give you any clues as to the actual voltage/current happening there?

PW 

Yes, and it's about what you'd expect to see on a HP180 scope at a gain of .5 v/div trying to get information from a 9 (or 4.5)  mHz signal. I'd hate to have to interpret it in a court of law.

But never fear, the Clarke-Hess power analyzer is near.

Wait till you see what 18 inches of wire inductance can do, in the latest video.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 06:22:13 AM by TinselKoala »

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2012, 05:09:38 AM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2012, 05:27:50 AM »
TK:

I knew it was high in frequency and I made a P.S. in my last posting about that.  I assume the RAT test was comparable in frequency.  It's not like you are in waveguide territory bit it's still quite high just the same - and not trivial.

Not easy stuff to deal with at all in terms of a serious analysis of an energy audit trail.  Like I already said, you have to assume way beyond the competencies of the RAT team.

You have probably looked at your share of "Dr. Stiffler" related clips and they are all just "playing" clips with people making neon lights light up and "sniffing around."

MileHigh



Offline Magluvin

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2012, 05:32:48 AM »
I agree that when pulsed, an led can take quite a bit more than continuous on current.
Remember the conversation we had a bit ago? There is an initial high output flash if you overdrive them. Say we put 10a through a laser diode that continuously wont handle as much, but for a very short amount of time. There will be an amount of time that it can take it.   After the flash dies, and current still flows, the led/laser diode begins to really die. err fry.

Just like diodes have peek amp/time ratings and continuous.

I have to find the laser circuit with the explanation. I was able to get leds to do it also. Not 10a though. ;]

If I can get it going again, with the led chip image on white paper, Ill make a vid.

Its pretty cool to see the 4 sides of the chip flash brighter 1 at a time as the current is increased till they are all brighter.

If this circuit is 1mhz or more, this could very well be a condition that the led will pass more current safely.


Instead of leds, what about shunted analog current meters with diodes on each. If the freq are very high,and rectified, the needle movement shouldnt have any visible vibration. Some meters are quicker and less damped. But if mhz, it should just show the average.
The meter that shows the most current, determines which direction more current is flowing. 

Mags


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2012, 05:32:48 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2012, 06:29:04 AM »
I think the NERD oscs in the demo video were supposed to be at 1.2 MHz if I recall the presenter's narration correctly. Of course, I trust that figure absolutely. Don't you?

But it does seem plausible considering the larger capacitances involved with the PG50. I have a single one I can stick in in 2 different places, either as Q1 or as one of the "gang of four", and I predict that will lower the oscillation frequency but of course not all the way down to 1.2 MHz. We shall see. Tomorrow I may get the other PG50s I've ordered.

By the way, the whine heard on my stereo during the "just right oscs" is the "modulation frequency", that is, the FG's pulse freq or a harmonic of it, while the 4.5 MHz seems to be the "carrier".

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2012, 06:35:15 AM »
@Mags: You know I'd be using my old analog Simpson for current monitoring if I could. Unfortunately it's in another undisclosed location right now and I can't get to it. Nor a lot of my other gear either.

I do have a current sensing transformer of the Rogowski coil type that I can try, running several turns of the supply lead through it to increase its sensitivity. It will only respond to the AC component of the current and will indicate the magnitude of the current by the voltage trace of its output, and it's only connected magnetically to the circuit under test. But the one I have might not be very good at 4.5 MHz... we shall see.

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2012, 06:35:15 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2012, 06:51:06 AM »
OK... I put the single PG50 that I have into one of the Q2 locations. The only change in circuit behaviour that I can detect on short inspection is that the frequency of the oscillations went down to ... er, hum..... at 1 microsecond per division, using the delayed trigger function and as much of the screen as I can see, I count 23 full cycles PER seven divisions or seven microseconds. Doing the math (tm RA), I do the division operation 23/0.000007 and find the answer, by pressing the "division" key on my calculator (sorry, I just cannot seem to help myself, this is more fun than shooting fish in a barrel) I find just under 3.3 MHz, a pretty good drop from what it was before.  The Philips says 3186 kHz, in good agreement with the scoposcopy.


Here's a screenshot of the HP180's delayed trigger function. The main trace is displayed at 0.2 milliseconds per division, then the expanded delayed trigger trace is shown at 1 microsecond per division. Two timebases on a single screen, with a single beam oscilloscope !! Analog RULES !!

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2012, 07:28:56 AM »
A note on "replication" and what I'm doing here:

First, as I said in the first post of the thread, RA disavows any notion that the Tar Baby is a replication of her NERD circuit. Even though it uses the same circuit diagram, the same component values except for the mosfets, is driven in the same way at the same frequencies and amplitudes and produces the same waveforms, the Tar Baby is NOT a NERD RAT replication. Got that? This gives me considerable freedom to experiment, as well as the liberty to apply for the various prizes she has applied for, should I be able to demonstrate battery charging and overunity performance in the Tar Baby device, which is NOT an Ainslie replication.

Second, fiddling around and turning knobs and poking fingers into things, learning about the circuit and its variations and vagaries, I've managed to destroy 3 of my IRF 830a mosfets. (I have a bunch of them).  My local supplier has these in stock for $1.30 each. The IRFPG50, however, costs around 6.50 each and are harder to get, and would also have been destroyed in the same events that got my 830s. Dare I say it..... do the math. That's the cost of a six pack of good beer around here, and I'm not kidding.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2012, 07:28:56 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2012, 09:48:38 AM »
Tar Baby and the LEDs Strike Back....:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM72T5YUn84

Offline hoptoad

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2012, 11:17:44 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2012, 11:17:44 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2012, 02:28:25 PM »
Hey the video at the start was awesome the information was great.
green tea pills weight loss"A high metabolic rate means more fat expenditure and a bigger calorie deficit which is essential to the process of weight loss. A study published in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition showed that green tea does have an effect on metabolism.
Really George? And what does a spambot know about Tar Babies and inductance and claims of overunity? I must say, I'm not too impressed with your sales ability so far. Here's a thought: why don't you just take your green tea pills and..... take them yourself. All of them. At once. Please report their effect on your metabolism.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2012, 02:39:04 PM »
Interesting...  KneeDeep
Yes, I thought so too.

I'm wondering... has there been any progress towards testing the NERD device? I haven't been looking at other threads here and I'm wondering if the NERD RATs have dropped their application or decided not to pursue the matter further.

Because I think we've identified some very easy little tests and trials that might reveal a lot about that device's performance, if somebody would only do them. If the NERD RAT device still exists somewhere, and is the revolutionary COP > Infinity device it has been claimed to be..... wouldn't you think at least _somebody_ would be willing to stay up late, in a room full of electronic test equipment and a computer and a camera or two, testing and reporting until everybody understood what a miracle it is and just how well it worked.

I know I would be, if I believed, really deep down, that I actually had such a device. Heck, I am anyway, and I doubt very severely that I will be able to get anywhere near COP > Infinity with the Tar Baby.

Heck, I'd be happy if it just did half that.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2012, 02:39:04 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #86 on: March 28, 2012, 02:49:17 PM »
TK:

Well, those look like the LEDs of Salvation!  World saved!  Civilization powered by RAT pulsing inductors everywhere!  lol

A few thoughts for you.  Goodbye cruel world...  Actually you notice that your 3-4 MHz waveform is actually a repeating "vertical spike" and not a sinusoidal-ish wave.  So there are actually harmonics galore, 8, 12, 16 MHz, etc.   You are really in "spacial energy" (sic) territory.

What makes voltage of the oscillation on the drain go quite high above the battery voltage?  I am guessing when the Q2 MOSFETs turn on that the small wire inductance is energized.  Then when Q2 switches off that stored energy discharges and charges up the stray capacitance in the wire.  Note that when you touch the wire and add capacitance the amplitude of the oscillations goes down.

So I am going to guess that the charged stray wire capacitance discharges back into the battery and that makes the "return" LED light up.  So it's the same old business where the whole setup is "buzzing" relative to a qasi virtual ground plane consisting of your desk, the floor, bla bla bla.  Spatial energy is everywhere dude...

So, two LEDs light up with a 4 MHz "spike."  The new mad theory is that 100 units of energy flow out of the battery, and then 99 units of energy flow back into the battery at 4 MHz.  There is a net outflow of energy that powers the circuit.

So, will the LEDs of Salvation be trumped by the Can't-be-Fooled Capacitor?  That ls the question...

MileHigh

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #87 on: March 28, 2012, 03:33:17 PM »
@MH: I  wouldn't put too much interpretation on the shape of that waveform within the oscillations. At the frequencies concerned, probes and scope internals have a large effect on subtle things like details within an individual period. if the waveform is regular at all you can rely on the frequency to be precise (if not too accurate) on the scope readout, but the exact shape could be influenced even by how you've got the probe wire strung along the bench. And these probes are "compensated" to give a good waveshape at a certain frequency, and so at other freqs they will distort the shape a bit.
I just checked .99's analysis doc, but it doesn't look like he included any sim traces from the common drain point, he was just concerned about the battery voltage and the CVR indications. Still, the oscillations at the battery in his sim look a lot like the individual cycles I see within the blur. I don't think there is really anything "clicking" or turning on and off hard in the circuit during the oscillations, and I think that they are really classical feedback, very sinusoidal, with some distortion caused by artefact and stray inductances.
But maybe you are right..... otherwise I probably wouldn't be able to pick it up on my FM radio at 88.1 MHz.

ETA: The bandwidth of the old 180 is a factor too. In a few days I'll have results from a more modern, 1 GHz scope and that will let us see what is really happening within those individual osc cycles. Pretty colored lines, too !

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #88 on: March 28, 2012, 03:44:01 PM »
@MH:
You said
Quote
So, two LEDs light up with a 4 MHz "spike."  The new mad theory is that 100 units of energy flow out of the battery, and then 99 units of energy flow back into the battery at 4 MHz.  There is a net outflow of energy that powers the circuit.
I forgot to show it but the LEDs across the CVR don't light when I have the LEDs-BrownInductor combo in series with the battery.
I can get the green one to glow very dimly but I think the red one stays dark. The red LEDs on the battery must be sucking up the excess TarBalls (not zipons) in the AC oscillation and converting them to red light, so they can't light up the other ones or even make it into the battery unless they sneak through the inductor.... Wait... we've discovered TarBall Tunneling !! It's the only possible explanation for why my batteries are still above 12 volts each, even though I've been running them for 5 hours a day every working day for the past day or two.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #89 on: March 28, 2012, 03:54:17 PM »
Sorry, I forgot myself for a moment. Seriously now....

We have a couple tests pending on the Tar Baby,  like my simple "dark bulb" test (with matched Zeners if allowed), the MH capacitor test,  and the Ultimate Reality Trial that .99 has proposed for the NERD RAT test. I don't need no stinking academics, I'll be happy to accept the test parameters and conditions that he was proposing to the NERD RATS as a fair test of their claims.

Now, I'm only claiming that Tar Baby will perform just like NERD in these tests (or others), allowing for its lower power levels and smaller battery capacity. I'm NOT claiming ..... yet ...... to have achieved OU performance (I haven't yet tested for this, obviously). Since my claim depends on the NERD device itself actually being tested _competently_ by whatever personnel and protocol..... let's get with the program, there, NERDs. Or are you trying to suppress my technology by delaying my progress?

 

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