Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 522949
  • *Total Topics: 15571
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 10
  • *Total: 11

Author Topic: Testing the TK Tar Baby  (Read 1466803 times)

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4140 on: July 18, 2012, 06:31:42 AM »
@Mags: re the light bulb on turn-on of amps: with this circuit you do not want a slow power up. It might not start oscillating, and that's the same situation as no loop: one mosfet stays on at very low Rds, and pop goes the mosfet. So put in a switch or relay and just flip that sucker on with the full supply voltage. If you ramp up the supply slowly, like for the very first test of the circuit, do it with an inline ammeter and if you see over 3 amps (no receivers) stop, you aren't oscillating. This does not mean it's not working, just that it needs that full 12v punch to wake up.

With no rx nearby the draw (12 v supply ) should be under 1 amp.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4140 on: July 18, 2012, 06:31:42 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4141 on: July 18, 2012, 06:43:24 AM »
 Provided he makes and wins an argument about Buddhism with those who live there, any wandering monk can remain in a Zen temple. If he is defeated, he has to move on.
In a temple in the northern part of Japan two brother monks were dwelling together. The elder one was learned, but the younger one was stupid and had but one eye.
A wandering monk came and asked for lodging, properly challenging them to a debate about the sublime teachings. The elder brother, tired that day from much studying, told the younger one to take his place. "Go and request the dialogue in silence," he cautioned.
So the young monk and the stranger went to the shrine and sat down.
Shortly afterwards the traveller rose and went in to the elder brother and said:  "Your young brother is a wonderful fellow. He defeated me."
"Relate the dialogue to me," said the elder one.
"Well," explained the traveller, "first I held up one finger, representing Buddha, the enlightened one. So he held up two fingers, signifying Buddha and his teaching. I held up three fingers, representing Buddha, his teaching, and his followers, living the harmonious life. Then he shook his clenched fist in my face, indicating that all three come from one realisation. Thus he won and so I have no right to remain here." With this, the traveller left.
"Where is that fellow?" asked the younger one, running in to his elder brother.
"I understand you won the debate."
"Won nothing. I'm going to beat him up."
"Tell me the subject of the debate," asked the elder one.
"Why, the minute he saw me he held up one finger, insulting me by insinuating that I have only one eye. Since he was a stranger I thought I would be polite to him, so I held up two fingers, congratulating him that he has two eyes. Then the impolite wretch held up three fingers, suggesting that between us we only have three eyes. So I got mad and started to punch him, but he ran out and that ended it!"




As a thing is viewed, so it appears.

 

Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4142 on: July 18, 2012, 06:46:27 AM »
@Mags: re the light bulb on turn-on of amps: with this circuit you do not want a slow power up. It might not start oscillating, and that's the same situation as no loop: one mosfet stays on at very low Rds, and pop goes the mosfet. So put in a switch or relay and just flip that sucker on with the full supply voltage. If you ramp up the supply slowly, like for the very first test of the circuit, do it with an inline ammeter and if you see over 3 amps (no receivers) stop, you aren't oscillating. This does not mean it's not working, just that it needs that full 12v punch to wake up.

With no rx nearby the draw (12 v supply ) should be under 1 amp.

Na, I would fuse it. The light bulb was just a story, some may not know of it.
Thanks for the tips. Its good for everyone. ;]

The Tx could be 2 or 3 loops(turns), as long as the conductor length is followed? Smaller, more compact.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4142 on: July 18, 2012, 06:46:27 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4143 on: July 18, 2012, 06:56:14 AM »
Na, I would fuse it. The light bulb was just a story, some may not know of it.
Thanks for the tips. Its good for everyone. ;]

The Tx could be 2 or 3 loops(turns), as long as the conductor length is followed? Smaller, more compact.

Mags
I have not tried a multi turn Tx yet. I was gonna today but I ran out of round tuits.
The circuit is basically an induction furnace; maybe a multi turn coil will turn it into a tenpenny nail-melter.

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4144 on: July 18, 2012, 07:57:36 AM »
The Hydraulic Analogy: Current and flow, voltage and pressure, wires and pipes.

OK, thanks for attending and welcome back, I hope you all had a good supper and a nice pipe or cigar after, as is your preference. Don't fall asleep too soon, though !

Now let's examine the Hydraulic Analogy for a bit.

Charge is fundamental, charge is conserved, charge is quantized, charge comes in two flavors, like charges repel and opposites attract, the negative unit charge is carried by the electron and is inseparable from it, positive charge is mostly the absence of electrons where they should be, except in things like proton beam accelerators and such like that there. And an enormous amount of charge, an entire Coulomb's worth, flows past your measuring point every second in a wire carrying one ampere of current.

So we don't really have any macroscopic experience with stuff that behaves just like that. How are we then to analogise QED so that it makes any kind of natural intuitive sense? We have to do the best we can, and it turns out that the Hydraulic Analogy (HA) does pretty good in some areas, and fails miserably in others, in this task of making electricity and charge understandable in the large.

Some electrical phenomena map pretty well to the HA. Others don't. Let's make good use of the ones that do, and step around the ones that don't, unless they carry important messages about what's been left out.

Water, of course, isn't quantized the way charge is (a single water molecule isn't really water), isn't fundamental, only comes in one flavor (if you're lucky) and doesn't mutually repel itself. But nevertheless it can be used to represent some very basic electrical parameters.

Pressure, and voltage. We've seen, using the Voltage Game, how a bunch of repulsive charge can result in a pressure that makes charge flow from a region of high pressure to one of lower pressure. It's pretty easy to see that water pressure or head is the analog of voltage.

Flow, and current. So if pressure is voltage, then flow must be current. Right? Well yes, but with caveats. Once again water isn't charge. Water has no "water field" that acts at a distance. Water doesn't repel like water. But most importantly, water flows at different velocities depending on pressure. Charge doesn't. The speed of charge in a wire is the speed of light, even though the speed of the charge carriers themselves is much slower. This is a great paradox, certainly, and of course my understanding is imperfect... Nevertheless it's an area where water and charge behave differently enough to screw up analogies.But to a first approximation, the flow of water is the analog to the current of charge that is electricity.

So, just like charge needs wires to flow in a complete circuit, so does water need pipes: pipes are the HA analog of conductors.

OK, so we can start building circuits now. We take a tank of water full to the top. We punch a pipe into the bottom of the tank, with a valve we can open or shut or regulate partway.  We put in a pump, since we are going to be pushing water up hill and must supply energy to do so. We put in another pipe and loop it back to the top of our tank. We now have a complete circuit and when we turn the pump on, flow will commence.

In fact we can combine the reservoir tank with an internal pump (powered by unspecified stored energy) and we have a battery analog. We can put in narrow sections of pipe... and we have resistors. We can put in remotely controlled valves for transistors. But the components I am most interested in analogising right now are capacitors and inductors. They present a bit more of a challenge for the HA than wires and switches, but these still can be met fairly well.

Let's take a quick break here and stretch, indulge your vices and flirt a bit. Come back later this evening please, for Capacitors and Inductors: The Hydraulic Analogs, and an introduction to fields of force.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4144 on: July 18, 2012, 07:57:36 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline picowatt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4145 on: July 18, 2012, 08:02:39 AM »
I have not tried a multi turn Tx yet. I was gonna today but I ran out of round tuits.
The circuit is basically an induction furnace; maybe a multi turn coil will turn it into a tenpenny nail-melter.

TK,

If I recall, you stated the only major change in the waveform when entering SNM was a drop in freq.

Mark the distance at just beyond which you cannot get SNM and then either with a variable cap or small value fixed caps try pulling the xmit freq down to see if you can get SNM at just beyond the marked distance (or increase freq if needed).

Possibly the observed drop in freq is due to mutual loading or icreased current draw/Vdrop when in the near field so adjusting the freq may not help.

However, it is also possible the xmt/rcv are just slightly off freq and tweaking one or the other may increase range.

Also, see what effect supply voltage has on xmt freq.  If it drifts as Vbatt decreases it will be difficult to keep all tuned perfectly.  A 10 volt LDO regulator may be required.

Might be worth playing with.

How clean do the xmt waveforms look? 

PW


Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4146 on: July 18, 2012, 08:30:30 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4147 on: July 18, 2012, 09:02:09 AM »
@PW: Yes, I've fine tuned the prototype, the one with the white spool chokes, by adding a small cap to the 60 nF stack and by trying different length loops. I've gotten it matched well to its receivers.
The one I'm showing here is still in the tuning stages and I'm about to do just what you suggest with a trimmer, if I can find an appropriate one.

I'll cover the distance/freq relationships in a video shortly, after I've had a cup of joe.

The waveform taken across the TX drains, with no receivers active, is nearly a perfect sinusoid. It is better than the F43's sine output, even. There is just a tiny ripple in the first 90 degrees; the transitions and zero crossings are clean. If I scope the individual drains wrt the source, I see the scope leads ringing, I guess, as each transistor shuts off its half-cycle, so there's that little ring-tail on the ends of the half-sines.

Offline mrsean2k

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4148 on: July 18, 2012, 10:42:28 AM »
I don't mind commenting on Rosemary's comment, but to be honest I've no idea what accusations I'm addressing.


As far as she goes on my responses to @TK's discussion, she's correct; I think I'm following it, and I think my comments are on topic (if not always correct).

But to be clear, I'm not at a complete standing start WRT understanding, I have some distant calculus, electronics and physics. Just enough to be able to chase down references from trusted sources and see that the claims and discussions by TK, PW et-al are consistent with them being domain experts. It isn't proof, but it's good evidence.

And more than enough to see that Rosemary's lack of knowledge and unwillingness to learn are leading her and her replicators down dead-ends. This is regrettable enough, but she's a serial liar. I'm of the opinion that it's only a lie if you don't believe it, and I don't believe she believes any of it any more.

I've had my run-in's with TK before, and there are matters of judgment on the behaviour and motives of others we discussed at the time that I'd still disagree with him on.

As far as his qualifications are concerned, fuck knows. Like it or not, when you choose to remain anonymous, you can make any claim you like about how well qualified you are, it doesn't mean shit - you're just an anonymous wonk like most other people. But he's been consistent in his claims, consistently correct in his references, consistently open in his working methods, meticulous in documenting what he does and presenting it, unafraid to correct and retract where necessary.

IOW every action is consistent with him having the qualifications he alludes to in the areas he claims. Good enough for me to treat him as if he's qualified.

Rosemary on the other hand is serially inconsistent in all of these areas. I weigh her comments accordingly.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4148 on: July 18, 2012, 10:42:28 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4149 on: July 18, 2012, 03:37:56 PM »
Thank you MrSean2k for giving us your explanation of your stance. It seems to be rather at variance with how Ms Ainslie represented your comments. I'm glad for your participation, as usual, and I rely on you, and others with a discerning mind, to let me know when and how I err.

I believe that the only person likely reading here who actually _needs_ the information that I have been imparting for the last several days with this series of _little_ essays... is Rosemary Ainslie. It is clear from my occasional dips into the Function Generator Anatomy thread that, even as late as this morning, there is still a great problem with the understanding of the basic issues of what voltage is, how it arises, and what current is and how it arises.  This is truly unfortunate. It illustrates that a cup that is overfull with kitchen slop and the discards from soupmaking.... cannot possibly receive and hold the pure and simple tea of Quantum Electrodynamics. Ainslie's strongly held, incorrect, notions of what voltage is and how current flows are clearly impeding her understanding of very basic phenomena in her own circuit-- even to the point that she denies their existence, when the evidence is written all over her data in pretty pastel digital phosphor.

I will be blunt: Rosemary Ainslie NEEDS to understand charge and its relationship to voltage and current. If she does not grasp the simple illustrations and allegories that show how charge, voltage and current actually arise and behave, she will have no hope whatsoever... and her interlocutors neither... of making progress in the FGA discussion. She is still holding and defending the idea that negative voltage is somehow a different thing than positive voltage, rather than a simple change in our viewing direction OF THE EXACT SAME thing.

For her, a FG "terminal" can "put out" a "negative voltage". And when there is "zero voltage".... nothing can happen. The concept of current Sources and Sinks is foreign to her conceptions.  Imagine getting her to believe that current can flow from a point that is at +12 volts, to a point that is at +9 volts, both with respect to a floating common that is at 100 volts above Earth ground, lighting up a 3-volt flashight bulb on the way without blowing the bulb. Impossible, she cries. How could one positive voltage "enable" a current flow to another positive voltage? Positive only flows to negatives. How could a voltage of +112 volts one one "terminal" and a voltage of +109 volts on the
"probe", not blow out a 3 volt bulb? How could any current flow at all, with such strong positives opposing one another?

This is how simple misconceptions of charge, what voltage and current are, and how charge flows in circuits absolutely block proper understanding of basic circuit behaviour. And on the other hand, when the basics of charge behaviour are understood, even at the level of the Voltage Game's simplistic analogy..... concepts that seemed intractably difficult and predictions that were at variance with actual experiment.... suddenly clear up, become obvious, and the predictions change and are now found to conform to reality.

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4150 on: July 18, 2012, 04:07:33 PM »
A brief aside: Qualifications.

The issue of a person's "qualifications" has come up several times. Some people may have long educational histories with many years and many dollars spent grappling with difficult issues in situations where they are subject to critical evaluation all the time, and the outcomes of those critical evaluations have profound implications on things like future careers and lifetime earnings. In other words, in situations where real pressures and real consequences exist. Some of these histories result in those persons receiving paper (or vellum) "qualifications" and even professional licenses.
Others may be largely self-taught, and with an adequate natural intelligence and good luck, may even accrue some of the same kinds of qualifications that the heavily-educated can hold.
But these "qualifications" ultimately mean relatively _little_, especially in an anonymous internet discussion. (Yes, we are all of us anonymous. What proof do we have that "Rosemary Ainslie" is actually anybody's real name at all? Just who have we been talking with, anyhow?)
All that matters is that statements made do conform to facts, and analyses given are accurate and correct, considering the nature and quality of the input data. "Qualifications" allow a rough guess at whether a person's statements are likely to be of any use or not, but ultimately it is the statements themselves, not from whom they come, that must be the determining factor in our judgments and beliefs.

The history of Science is full of instances when fully, even extremely "qualified" individuals have made huge blunders, in individual statements (Lord Kelvin's howlers for example) or even throughout entire scientific careers (the HeLa story). It happens frequently. Some scientists even have the integrity to reverse themselves and revise their original blundering viewpoint in the light of experimental data or incontrovertibly reasoned arguments.

What happens much less frequently is for manifestly UN-qualified, undereducated, spottily autodidactic individuals to make hugely significant discoveries or perform and analyze significant experimental trials. In fact, cases of this happening are so vanishingly rare that I can't think of one right now. There are plenty of cases of non-degreed persons making great contributions to their areas of Science... but these people are fully qualified in other ways, through experience and hard work of their own. The garage or broomcloset experimenter who can't make a coherent explanation of a simple DC circuit nor perform basic algebra and arithmetic calculations ... is simply not going to be able to make a significant contribution to electronics, physics, or general Science, except perhaps as a cautionary example.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4150 on: July 18, 2012, 04:07:33 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline markdansie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1471
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4151 on: July 18, 2012, 05:10:21 PM »
@ Rosemary.
Thank you for your reply. What I speculated was suppose to add a little humor.
My many visits To South Africa over the years have always ended up in finding technologies that did not test or meet expectations. I always hold hope.
The last trip in particular was big waste of time and effort. That is why I regretted not thinking of visiting you.
I never speculate on outcomes but rely on highly qualified engineers and scientists  to test and evaluate when I get out of my depth.
More often than not we find methodology is flawed.
I am a seeker of truth and nothing else.
I look forward to you public demonstration.
PS I am also a Poet.

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4152 on: July 18, 2012, 06:28:36 PM »
Here's a video showing the scope traces from the wireless power transmitter and receiver, in normal and supernova mode. Note several interesting things: the brightness of the bulb remains constant over a changing distance in the SNM and clearly falls off over the same changing distance in normal mode; the input current increases with distance in SNM and decreases with distance in normal mode; and the SN transition involves both a frequency change and a 180 degree (plus a little) phase shift, to a slightly more than 180 degree Out Of Phase condition between the Tx and Rx.

And of course the Rx amplitude is higher than the Tx amplitude.... the point of insuring that the probes and channels were balanced in the first part of the demonstration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qKISIE0Og

Offline evolvingape

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 478
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4153 on: July 18, 2012, 09:46:07 PM »
Excellent series of essays there TK, enjoyed them immensely, thankyou. I have attempted to do a similar thing for fluid dynamics included within my work. Maybe it is worth the communities time to consider working together to create a treatise on the major disciplines. There is certainly enough knowledge and talent to draw upon within the community to create a peer reviewed sticky and may well be what is required to form a solid foundation for people who have not had the privilege of studying these subjects in depth.

I also like the Zen aspect, I myself in my younger days studied Bruce Lee's book, Tao of Jeet Kune Do, it became my mental and physical bible and allowed me to progress to a point where the one thumb press up was no longer a dream. Be like water, my friend.

As you do not mind the slightly off topic comments I decided a taster of what I am currently working on might be enjoyed by the guys here. I will be putting up a new post here soon:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2781-wood-gasification.html

This thread is essential reading for understanding this:

http://www.overunity.com/10425/phoenix-turbine-builders-club-forum/#.UAcCkfV8T2k

I have attempted to design a phase change rotary engine operating on both mechanical and energetic principles, with a firm foundation in known technologies and theories, QED amongst them. Hopefully the Pulsometer steam pump will be recognised as a phase change linear oscillator capable of doing work.

The subject of the post to come is based around potential difference of mechanical and energetic systems, as always. This site here is very interesting for learning about the basics of physics in general:

http://www.physicstutorials.org/home/introduction

If you take the time to read every page you will get a very good basic overview of the foundational principles of the sciences. You will also notice many subjects that have been touched on over the last few years by the contributors to this thread.

In particular I will be focusing on quick exhaust valves (QEV) and forwarding a theoretical hypothesis for increasing valve opening times to increase power by attempting to approach Time = 0.

The basics of this will include Hooke's Law, governing stress and strain in compression springs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooke%27s_law

Which state that strain is directly proportional to stress in a direct variation relationship whose behaviour is linear:

http://www.regentsprep.org/Regents/math/algtrig/ATE7/Direct%20Variation.htm

And can be seen here as a rate expressed as a force applied (Newtons) over a given distance (mm) by a compression spring manufacturer:

http://www.leespring.com/uk_browse_catalog.asp?rbunitOfMeasure=Metric&springType=C&partnum=&UnitOfMeasure=Metric&specsCriteria=&subType=&pageNumber=1

And we will also examine permanent neodymium magnets, which act as perfect springs with 100% conservation of energy, whose behaviour is not governed by Hooke's Law but varies by the cube power of force (Newtons) over distance (mm) and is governed by aspects of QED:

https://www.hkcm.de/magnet.php/?dnx=8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

Examine the two graphs and you have a visual intuitive perception of the potential difference to be exploited if both axis alignment and vector sign are taken into account during the design and construction of your mechanism. Here is a nice youtube video showing the magnetic spring principle using a ring and a cylinder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0CL_5G4Aoo

Hopefully that is interesting, even if slightly off topic for some.

Rob.


Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: Testing the TK Tar Baby
« Reply #4154 on: July 19, 2012, 01:09:15 AM »
Hi evolvingape and thanks for your comment. That is a bunch of interesting stuff indeed. Right now, I'm too busy to give it the attention it deserves, but I've bookmarked the links for further study and contemplation.

I agree -- obviously -- that a solid grounding in some basics would help people to not waste their energy and resources chasing wild geese down dead end alleys.... all you wind up with is a honking mad goose in a tight spot.

That last video from gilbondfac (one of my favorite experimenters) is similar to some I've done. The gun is interesting, a Howard Johnson gate kind of thing. But I wonder if there might be an even more interesting application for the arrangement shown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaxoKkGTRM

(I see that I made this back in 2008... a blast from the past indeed!)

ETA: And, ultimately, we have to trace the origins of our ideas. This one was inspired by a drawing from a Russian book by Nikolayev, who was Stefan Marinov's mentor. Many mysterious things are in that book; I wish I could actually read it a bit better.

 

OneLink