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### Author Topic: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity  (Read 92540 times)

#### PiCéd

• Full Member
• Posts: 172
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #75 on: August 18, 2013, 07:46:26 PM »
In fact I have something with the centrifugal force but unfortunately I am not sure that it work.
made the better dynamic balance (when you have dynamic balance you have static balance), approximately equalize the (three?) tensors
Have less air friction (lesser surface in the direction of the turn)
Using a power starting to the center of the axle
place a strong target on the field line of one of the largest mass of the trick and see what happens.
I don't know if a very good dynamic balance give a total mass close to 0, but I know that a moving mass in the path of a fixed mass, the colision transmitted energy is always (1/2) mv².

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #76 on: August 18, 2013, 09:11:36 PM »
Thanks MileHigh, I get it...

BTW - I've done a Phun simulation of the eccentric motor, connected to the generator via a crank I drew (on previous page). It does not produce any overunity. The power delivered by the eccentric to the crank is exactly what's put in. Makes sense... Phun's a useful tool - it's good to clarify these things, and great to be able to test ideas without getting the saw out.

Oh well, it's back to the drawing board I suppose...

#### Kator01

• Hero Member
• Posts: 898
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #77 on: August 19, 2013, 12:00:30 AM »
Hello ,

just realized that I put the wrong link fpr pequaide. Here ist the correct link:
http://www.overunity.com/1995/free-energy-from-gravitation-using-newtonian-physic/255/

Special attention to page 8: here the graphic and the fotos in succesion show the process of what he made in his first experiment.

You may read again page 1, Reply 8 paragraph 7: it is all about conservation of momentum ( ! ) and not conservation of kinetic energy.
The momentum of the cylinder-mass is fully transfered to the steel-spheres thus increasing their kinetic energy at the end of the process when the momentum of the cylinder is zero.

I really regret that the discussion stopped in march 2009. The problem I saw in his setup was a practical one. What kind of a machine can be build based on his findings ?

Any ideas ? If so we may continue at his thead.

Long ago in 1972 a script was published ( unfortunately only available in german language ) by Otto Stein with the title : Die Zukunft der Technik ( the future of technology ) dealing with a mechanical unbalanced motor-concept
I found it today ( for those who can understand german) , reposted by a german guy living in paraguay:
http://wolfganghann.fruchtesser.de/
http://wolfganghann.fruchtesser.de/zukunft.pdf

On page 7, Abb.6 you can see that the velocity of the earth ( orbiting the sun ) is considered as additional parameter for gaining energy in accellerated systems at the earth surface-level.
One page 30 a picture of a prototyp is shown which was sucessfully tested. Energy-gain was prooven by measuring the energy used to stop the machine after accelleration.

2 Years ago I did  extensive research about the author but unfortunately without success.

So many concepts exist and somehow silently they disapear

By the way: The Wuerth-Machine ( also a german inventor)  was not a success

Regards

Kator01

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #78 on: August 23, 2013, 07:02:09 PM »
I've figured out why Phun will never give OU - and why the sims I make in it don't feel right: It's using the standard equations for force, which don't include the *third derivative* of motion: The rate of change of acceleration.

I know from my experiences in a human body that it's relevant, so the fact that it's missing from the textbooks is, I'd like to say bizarre. Given the state of the world though, it's just normal...

So the 'centrifugal generator' I drew could well work - if it's linkage was a bit loose. It explains why pulses of power can yield OU.

Fifth Element:
http://www.halexandria.org/dward124.htm

Davis and Stine:
http://www.halexandria.org/dward138.htm

I think the thread still has legs... Might have to make it an *oscillating* centripetal force...

It's interesting that pequaide noticed OU - with a large rate of change of acceleration...

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2013, 10:37:24 AM »
This looks to me like experimental proof of concept:

So, the Milkovic 2-stage oscillator is measured as OU. Imagine that the pendulum keeps going round - so is an eccentric mass - surely that should also be OU, and should produce much more power out than the simple pendulum..?

I think it's worth trying to build something. I'm putting this at #2 on my list...

#### DreamThinkBuild

• Hero Member
• Posts: 574
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2013, 02:50:58 AM »
Hi Kator,

This is an interesting robot design.

I like how the arms fold inward on themselves. This design could be attached to a flywheel using a gyro sensor and weights at the ends. If four motors are used you would only have to activate the one in the 12:00-3:00 position. The arm would push the weight out at the 12:00 position than pull it back in as it nears the 3:00 position. So each motor would be given a 90 degree quadrant to work in depending on it's orientation. Would be interesting to see.

#### zoelra

• Full Member
• Posts: 111
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2013, 12:42:22 AM »
A Milkovic 2SO is NOT OU.  It may be break even at best (excluding friction and air resistance).  The paper presented in the previous link is not credible.  Read some of the comments.  To date there is not one credible, peer reviewed analysis of the Milkovic 2SO showing OU.  If OU was there, closing the loop would not be difficult.

However, the 2SO (non-Milkovic style) is still my chosen path of experimentation.

#### Kator01

• Hero Member
• Posts: 898
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2013, 01:43:37 AM »
DreamThinkBuild  interesting design indeed. Thank you for this link. The problem with pequaide´s discovery is a practical
version or better prototype which is able to collect the kinetic energy gained when the steelballs have flung out and the main inner body hast stopped moving. How can we do this ?

I regard his discovery at that stage a scientific experiment which must be veryfied by scientists with focus in kinetics.

Kator01

#### lightend

• Newbie
• Posts: 34
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #83 on: December 27, 2013, 11:59:58 AM »
Couldnt you just get a funnel, cut away the bottom, put a spiral in the inside, spin it at a fast rate and let said force pick up the water and take it to the top with little effort (need to use water so a to keep the weight spread evenly and prevent extra work).
collect the water as it flys out the top and use an alternator on the waters return to the starting chamber, thus harvesting electricity). you could test the theory with a 1 watt motor spinning at xxx, and a 2 watt generator powering the motor, you would need to hand crank it to start then see if it can power its self, if it can, its o.u. if not.... you learn another way how not to do something.

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #84 on: December 27, 2013, 01:16:49 PM »
Hi Lightend,
this can be done with a simple funnel. No need for spiral vanes... There's a paper on it somewhere I read once...

If you spin a cone with it's tip in the water - the water is drawn up the sides by cenrtifugal force.

I've often wondered about the efficiency of this. The paper I read indicated it might be OU.

The traditional view, I think, is that the work done by the spinning cone on the water - to accelerate it outward - should result in drag on the cone...

Regards, Tim

#### lightend

• Newbie
• Posts: 34
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2013, 09:30:56 AM »
hey Tim.

really? I will have a search for the paper online.
I had a think about it last night in bed and decided it would probably be better to have horizontal grooves to help speed up the spin of water and have the groves going up at a 45 degree angle so while the water is on its way up and out some of its energy can be used to counter some of the drag of the water getting up to speed.

If it worked it would definitely be an easy one for people to reproduce. at the very least I expect it to be a more efficient way of move water up than a conventional water pump. Unfortunately I am on the move at the moment and cant start playing around with the concept until I get back to the uk in early may 2014. if you had the time and a 'liberated' traffic cone, you could give it a go. also coating the out side of the cone with oil would help it pass in water with less resistance. the only place resistance would be wanted would be in the inside.
regards
mark

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2013, 11:34:12 AM »
I had a look for that paper, but couldn't find it...

Summary from memory:
- They tried various angles of cone
- at various depths of insertion into the water
- at various speeds

Results:
- Angles between 25 and 40 degrees best (I think)
- Best results with just the tip of cone in the water
- Existing models of efficiency not accurate - the system seemed to move much more water than predicted.

It's not a simple experiment to perform - finding / making the cones - mounting them with an appropriate motor & bearings - measuring the water moved etc...

A traffic cone would be too sharp an angle. Some household funnels might be perfectly conical, and the right angle... Attaching the cone securely to a motor in a way that doesn't interfere with the water flow is a bit tricky.

As a thought experiment - replace the water with ball bearings... Work must be done by the cone to accelerate them up the sides... There is a back-force on the cone as it does that...

How much work does it take? Probably as much as the fluid gains in kinetic + potential energy... Or maybe less. I don't know.

#### lightend

• Newbie
• Posts: 34
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2014, 07:49:32 PM »
hey tim,
long time no speak.

Im now in ireland and ready to start inventing again, so if you want to put our heads together and see if we can make one of these machines that would be great (I have made a few things in the past, but this one i will need help with,  its a bit more precise than im used to).

#### CANGAS

• Full Member
• Posts: 235
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2014, 08:23:11 AM »
Congratulations!
You've discovered that the energy in your breakfast can be stored in a flywheel and an oscillating weight, like  vertical pendulum. The major loss mechanism is the noise when the weight bangs against the ground--- but it's easy to resupply that by giving the crank another turn or two.
You probably think that the "overunity" is because the toolbox is being raised up over and over, and that's really hard if you do it by hand. But what you are not considering, apparently, is that your mechanism, through the magnetic coupling, is re-using the same energy over and over, transferring it from the box to the wheel and back and forth. If you had a stroboscope, you'd be able to tell that the wheel slows a bit when the box is raised and speeds up as the box falls.
I'm not sure where centripetal force enters into this. At least you didn't say "centrifugal". That would have really worried me.

QUOTE...."At least you didn't say "centrifugal".

Yeah, I came late to this party. Bla, bla, bla,. But..Lets establish something right now (actually kind of time-shifted into this threads past). Do you disagree with the word "centrifugal force"?

I remind you that the idol of many wannabee Physicists, Sir Albert Einstein, used the word "centrifugal force" in a manner completely acceptable to Himself in many of his writings.

PS I personally do not agree with very much of Sir Alberts view of Physics but I want to know what you think about the validity of centrifugal FORCE..

CANGAS 15

#### tim123

• Hero Member
• Posts: 509
##### Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2014, 10:07:13 AM »
hey tim...

Hi Lightend,
I found that paper on spinning cone pumps - attached...

Regards, Tim