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Author Topic: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity  (Read 71809 times)

Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2012, 11:27:07 PM »
@MoRo,

Yes, I agree: not a single word, indeed, a shabby music (IMO) and no explanation. :P

Anyway:
In his very DVD: "Electric Motor Secret", Peter Lindemann made
an experiment with 2 (as identical as possible) electric motors 'classically' coupled.
One as a prime mover the other as a generator.
No 'OU' here. Of course. Just measurements.

But, IMO, it would be worth to see what is going on if these 2 motors were coupled
by this kinda non so 'classical' flywheel (but a flywheel, indeed). Would it not be?

It is not a so complicated experiment.

Would it not of any interest to see whether there were any discrepancy between these 2
experiments? ('classical' coupling VS flywheel coupling)?

No 'OU'. But, perhaps, just any obvious difference could be observed.
If yes, this might open some door. Might it not?

After all, a gyroscope is a kinda flywheel. Is it not?
Please consult Eric Laithwaite about gyroscopes.
For example:
Eric Laithwaite - gyroscopic gravity modification
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHlAJ7vySC8

A gyroscope is behaving strangly. No?


Very Best

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2012, 11:27:07 PM »

Offline gdez

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2012, 12:18:20 AM »
@NerzhDishual
 Good post,
   eric's stuff has to make you think twice.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2012, 05:37:08 AM »
Good answer, and almost correct.
The part about pushing forces.... that's not correct, though. I know there are theories of pushing gravity, and I kind of like those, and since gravity isn't fully understood I'm not going to criticise theories of pushing gravity. But other forces, like electrostatics, electromagnetism, the strong and weak nuclear forces-- those can be attractive, definitely, as well as being repulsive. I don't think this is a matter of reference frame, either.

Gravity has the properties of being a simultaneous push/pull force according to how we perceive reality, but in the realm of true reality, gravity is nothing more than an effect.  By definition, "free fall is any motion of a body where gravity is the only force acting upon it.  Free fall in the absence of forces other than gravity produces weightlessness or 'zero-g'.  Any condition of weightlessness due to inertial motion is referred to as free-fall. This may also apply to weightlessness produced because the body is far from a gravitating body (no net force exerted on a body)." 

If you're simultaneously pushed from the back and pulled from the front with an equal force, then you will experience zero-g.  Since a body feels no net force in a zero-g or weightlessness environment, then there can be no net reaction force.  This is the reason why a body, regardless of it's mass will undergo the same acceleration rate in gravity.  In other-words, the effect of gravity is the expansion acceleration of mass moving past stationary light (the inverse of how we perceive reality). 

If you are stationary (a photon) while I am accelerating and expanding in all directions towards you (mass), then there is no forces acting between you and I.  You will experience zero-g and weightlessness since you're not being accelerated or have a net force acting on you.  However, once we make contact with each other, then you will be continuously pushed by the mass and experience acceleration and g-forces (1-g in the case of earth due to its expansion acceleration rate).  Actually, the electric force is the only force in Nature (+Q and -Q).

Gravock
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 06:57:02 AM by gravityblock »

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2012, 05:37:08 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2012, 06:47:10 AM »
A = Gravitational Acceleration
Z = Time of Particle (Electron) Orbit
A x Z = Velocity of Light (Velocity of Gravity)

In scientific circles, a calculation that has not been known is that the product of;

Wavelength * Frequency = Speed of Gravity
AZ^2 * 1/Z = AZ

is parallel to

Gravitational Acceleration x Orbit Time = Speed of Gravity
A * Z = AZ

The results are exactly equal, however the units are not.

In the true energy equation, Wavelength is comparable to Gravitational Acceleration (A) and Frequency is comparable to Orbit Time (Z). When Frequency (1/Z) is changed into Orbit Time (Z) the Wavelength is not also just flipped to the inverse, rather the AZ^2 of Wavelength is then changed into Acceleration (A). Wavelength is represented by Orbit Diameter (AZ^2)

Earth's Gravity (9.80175174 m/s^2) x earth's Orbit Time (30,585,600 seconds, exact lunar year) = the Velocity of Gravity and Light (299,792,458 m/s).  Earth (mass) is undergoing expansion acceleration while moving past stationary light.

The Scientific Community is not yet aware that Wavelength = Orbit Diameter = Acceleration of Gravity x (Orbit Time)^2

The Scientific Community is not yet aware that Frequency = 1/Orbit Time

Gravock

Offline MoRo

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2012, 03:28:09 PM »
Gravity has the properties of being a simultaneous push/pull force according to how we perceive reality, but in the realm of true reality, gravity is nothing more than an effect.  By definition, "free fall is any motion of a body where gravity is the only force acting upon it.  Free fall in the absence of forces other than gravity produces weightlessness or 'zero-g'.  Any condition of weightlessness due to inertial motion is referred to as free-fall. This may also apply to weightlessness produced because the body is far from a gravitating body (no net force exerted on a body)." 

If you're simultaneously pushed from the back and pulled from the front with an equal force, then you will experience zero-g.  Since a body feels no net force in a zero-g or weightlessness environment, then there can be no net reaction force.  This is the reason why a body, regardless of it's mass will undergo the same acceleration rate in gravity.  In other-words, the effect of gravity is the expansion acceleration of mass moving past stationary light (the inverse of how we perceive reality). 

If you are stationary (a photon) while I am accelerating and expanding in all directions towards you (mass), then there is no forces acting between you and I.  You will experience zero-g and weightlessness since you're not being accelerated or have a net force acting on you.  However, once we make contact with each other, then you will be continuously pushed by the mass and experience acceleration and g-forces (1-g in the case of earth due to its expansion acceleration rate).  Actually, the electric force is the only force in Nature (+Q and -Q).

Gravock
The "effect" as you put it (outcome) is generally understood... It is the "cause" (source) to which there is a general lack of understanding. Gravity is not the expansion of space. It is more likely the displacement of the sea of energy in the space field that we call and perceive as TIME. Matter requires this energy for it's existence in the space field. Matter at any point in space uses this energy, causing the surrounding energy to move inward by displacement. The greater the clump of matter existing near a general point in space, the more perceptible the displacement as you approach. The centripetal force that pushes on Earth's Moon to hold it in orbit is caused by this displacement. There is in reality no such thing as a force that pulls.
 

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2012, 03:28:09 PM »
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Offline AlanA

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2012, 07:20:32 PM »
@ Moro

Thanks for the theoretical input. This is important but can also curtain the own claims.
What I want to say. There is a lack of input/output calculation of your (impressing) demonstration (bike). Even thought it was a schematic representation so you have not answered to my input calculation  ;)
Alana

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2012, 12:55:55 AM »
The "effect" as you put it (outcome) is generally understood... It is the "cause" (source) to which there is a general lack of understanding. Gravity is not the expansion of space. It is more likely the displacement of the sea of energy in the space field that we call and perceive as TIME. Matter requires this energy for it's existence in the space field. Matter at any point in space uses this energy, causing the surrounding energy to move inward by displacement. The greater the clump of matter existing near a general point in space, the more perceptible the displacement as you approach. The centripetal force that pushes on Earth's Moon to hold it in orbit is caused by this displacement. There is in reality no such thing as a force that pulls.

Time should play the part, instead of meters or distance. We should look upon Time as the result of the force that impels a body through space. The greater the force, the shorter the time, and the shorter also the space to be traversed. Thus, if the force were infinitely great, time and space would be infinitely small, they would cease to exist. If the force were infinitely small and ceased to exist, then time and space would be infinitely great. But, again the force is not everything, because in reality it does not exist. All that exists is the impulse that is applied to the body in space and imparts momentum to it. The body's movement is then only limited by the resistance it has to overcome. What does exist then is the momentum that arises from the impulse of the force, and not the force itself. Again this impulse only exists as a function of a Will that gives rise to it. To sum up, time and space are the outcome of a powerful Will acting on the Universe, that is what we should measure, taking note of its intensity in any given phenomenon. In our Universe this Will manifests itself as galactic time.

In this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2QPMO6bo4E, each path starts at the same height and ends at the same height, so gravity doesn't provide either path with an extra advantage (The net fall is the same for each ball).  Also, take note on how the path which dips the lowest doesn't always win.  The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  However, the shortest time between two points is a curve.  It's the shortest time because the curve provides the greatest force with the least amount of resistance to overcome to impel the body through space (the greatest momentum), and not because time decreased, increased, or was displaced.  Mass moves faster on a curve than it does a straight line.  All that exists is the impulse that is applied to the body in space and imparts momentum to it. The body's movement is then only limited by the resistance it has to overcome.  Gravity isn't a curvature in space-time (if the force were infinitely great, time and space would be infinitely small, they would cease to exist. If the force was infinitely small, time and space would be infinitely great).

Gravock

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2012, 12:55:55 AM »
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Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2012, 02:21:24 AM »
@GravityBlock

Thanks for your post.

"galactic time" is over my (left?) mind. :-[

Anyway:
[....] each path starts at the same height and ends at the same height,
so gravity doesn't provide either path with an extra advantage
(The net fall is the same for each ball). 
Also, take note on how the path which dips the lowest doesn't always win.
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. 
However, the shortest time between two points is a curve.
................
Gravity isn't a curvature in space-time.

Might evoke something to my right brain. ???

Anyway I have the  feebleness to believe that - apart from any theory- some very simple experiments might be of any help.

Very Best

Offline MoRo

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 07:13:40 PM »
@ Moro

Thanks for the theoretical input. This is important but can also curtain the own claims.
What I want to say. There is a lack of input/output calculation of your (impressing) demonstration (bike). Even thought it was a schematic representation so you have not answered to my input calculation  ;)
Alana
Even if it were true tha I was the first to suggest such theory as an explanation of gravity, and I "curtain own claims" by mentioning it here, I would be happy that such knowledge became openly available to all. Just as my MagnaMoRo YouTube channel expresses... "Free Energy For All".  I am unconcerned for my self... The benefit of all is the seat of my motivation.

Also, I am still working out the proper way to demonstrate the input/output with the bicycle setup.  Stay posted.

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 07:13:40 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2012, 08:29:27 PM »
Time should play the part, instead of meters or distance. We should look upon Time as the result of the force that impels a body through space. The greater the force, the shorter the time, and the shorter also the space to be traversed. Thus, if the force were infinitely great, time and space would be infinitely small, they would cease to exist. If the force were infinitely small and ceased to exist, then time and space would be infinitely great. But, again the force is not everything, because in reality it does not exist. All that exists is the impulse that is applied to the body in space and imparts momentum to it. The body's movement is then only limited by the resistance it has to overcome. What does exist then is the momentum that arises from the impulse of the force, and not the force itself. Again this impulse only exists as a function of a Will that gives rise to it. To sum up, time and space are the outcome of a powerful Will acting on the Universe, that is what we should measure, taking note of its intensity in any given phenomenon. In our Universe this Will manifests itself as galactic time.

In this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2QPMO6bo4E, each path starts at the same height and ends at the same height, so gravity doesn't provide either path with an extra advantage (The net fall is the same for each ball).  Also, take note on how the path which dips the lowest doesn't always win.  The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  However, the shortest time between two points is a curve.  It's the shortest time because the curve provides the greatest force with the least amount of resistance to overcome to impel the body through space (the greatest momentum), and not because time decreased, increased, or was displaced.  Mass moves faster on a curve than it does a straight line.  All that exists is the impulse that is applied to the body in space and imparts momentum to it. The body's movement is then only limited by the resistance it has to overcome.  Gravity isn't a curvature in space-time (if the force were infinitely great, time and space would be infinitely small, they would cease to exist. If the force was infinitely small, time and space would be infinitely great).

Gravock

  Hope you don't mind if I disagree with you on this point;
"The greater the force, the shorter the time, and the shorter also the space to be traversed"
 The reason being is that the slower something moves, the more force it can impart. Also, the greater the distance it travels between 2 points gives it a greater potential.
 An example of this last part is if point A is 9.8 meters above point B. Either way, via the straight line or if travelling with a radius of 9.8 meters, they are considered to have identical velocities at point B minus resistence.
 How ever, with aradius of 9.8 meters, the velocity of m*9.8m/s/s/9.8*3.14 is greater tha work = mass times distance travelled.
 By increasing the radii, the amount of work that can be performed increases exponentially. As such, the greater the radius of a weights downward path,the greatness in the amount of work it can perform increases like wise.
 
                                                                                                                                  Jim

Offline MoRo

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2012, 11:41:28 PM »

  Hope you don't mind if I disagree with you on this point;
"The greater the force, the shorter the time, and the shorter also the space to be traversed"
 The reason being is that the slower something moves, the more force it can impart. Also, the greater the distance it travels between 2 points gives it a greater potential.
 An example of this last part is if point A is 9.8 meters above point B. Either way, via the straight line or if travelling with a radius of 9.8 meters, they are considered to have identical velocities at point B minus resistence.
 How ever, with aradius of 9.8 meters, the velocity of m*9.8m/s/s/9.8*3.14 is greater tha work = mass times distance travelled.
 By increasing the radii, the amount of work that can be performed increases exponentially. As such, the greater the radius of a weights downward path,the greatness in the amount of work it can perform increases like wise.
 
                                                                                                                                  Jim
It seams to be a common mistake that people make, to say "work = mass times distance travelled", but this simply is not accurate.

Work = The average applied Force over a given period of Time.

A given quantity of mass will accelerate or deccelerate at a certain rate over the Time of applied Force and then forever maintain that state so long as there is no other outside force or resistance. This also applies to gyrational and centrifugal activity.

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2012, 11:41:28 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2012, 12:33:48 AM »
It seams to be a common mistake that people make, to say "work = mass times distance travelled", but this simply is not accurate.

Work = The average applied Force over a given period of Time.

A given quantity of mass will accelerate or deccelerate at a certain rate over the Time of applied Force and then forever maintain that state so long as there is no other outside force or resistance. This also applies to gyrational and centrifugal activity.

   MoRo,
 One thing scientists agree on is that if a 1kg weight drops 9.8 meters regardless of it's path will have the same velocity at the bottom of it's drop.
 If one weight circles as in a wheel, then it will take more time to arrive at the same destination at the same speed all things being equal.
 The difference is torque. A weight taking a longer path generates more torque which can be converted into force or work.
 One example my father gave me a long, long time ago was a weight dropping 1 meter can only lift another weight 1 meter. In a wheel, this is all that is required. A simple wheel of 4 weights might work. What would be missing is this understanding, the path downward would need to be longer to generate extra potential. This would mean that speed or velocity would not be as important as someone would think in a basic design.
 It might have the opposite effect and reduce the efficiency of converting potential into work or spin of the wheel. This is because the amount of time a weight is over balanced would be reduced because of the wheel rotating. Einstein's equal and opposing effect. The faster a wheel spins, the less over balance it has.
                                                                            Jim

Offline MoRo

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2012, 04:25:29 AM »

   MoRo,
 One thing scientists agree on is that if a 1kg weight drops 9.8 meters regardless of it's path will have the same velocity at the bottom of it's drop.
 If one weight circles as in a wheel, then it will take more time to arrive at the same destination at the same speed all things being equal.
 The difference is torque. A weight taking a longer path generates more torque which can be converted into force or work.
 One example my father gave me a long, long time ago was a weight dropping 1 meter can only lift another weight 1 meter. In a wheel, this is all that is required. A simple wheel of 4 weights might work. What would be missing is this understanding, the path downward would need to be longer to generate extra potential. This would mean that speed or velocity would not be as important as someone would think in a basic design.
 It might have the opposite effect and reduce the efficiency of converting potential into work or spin of the wheel. This is because the amount of time a weight is over balanced would be reduced because of the wheel rotating. Einstein's equal and opposing effect. The faster a wheel spins, the less over balance it has.
                                                                            Jim
I do not dispute you on the above points... But the point you may not be considering, AND what you should have asked your father, is this...

 
How high can a 1kg mass be lifted by another 1kg mass dropped from 9.8 meters if that 1kg mass was already traveling at 9.8 meters/sec at the time you drop it?

 
See... that's the point... once the mass on my bicycle wheel has been accelerated, then, at the top of each cycle, the “drop” already has a certain start speed. Think of it as a state or level of energy. It is only this energy level that needs to be maintain against losses.  I don't have to start from a zero energy state each drop. The curved path of the wheel conserves the energy and swings it back 180° each half cycle. The bicycle jumps up and down because of centripetal forces generated by the speed of curvature of the orbiting mass.
 

Offline AlanA

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2012, 02:17:01 PM »
@ MORO
Sorry, it was not my intention to insult or to be unpolite.
Althought I was a little bit confused because I get no anwer from you (energy for turing a bike with 9.3 miles/hour is 50 watts).
What I meant with "curtain the own claims" is not you work generall but the very theoretical discussion about it. My suggestion: To show facts: input versus output. This spares all theoretical discussions.
But thanks for you interesting demonstration: There is no other idea like this.

Offline johnny874

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Re: Centripetal Force Yealds Over Unity
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2012, 04:07:52 PM »
I do not dispute you on the above points... But the point you may not be considering, AND what you should have asked your father, is this...

 
How high can a 1kg mass be lifted by another 1kg mass dropped from 9.8 meters if that 1kg mass was already traveling at 9.8 meters/sec at the time you drop it?

 
See... that's the point... once the mass on my bicycle wheel has been accelerated, then, at the top of each cycle, the “drop” already has a certain start speed. Think of it as a state or level of energy. It is only this energy level that needs to be maintain against losses.  I don't have to start from a zero energy state each drop. The curved path of the wheel conserves the energy and swings it back 180° each half cycle. The bicycle jumps up and down because of centripetal forces generated by the speed of curvature of the orbiting mass.

  MoRo,
 I think the attached diagram will help you to understand my perspective. One thing I thought of is that Bessler said to make 3 weights fly as one and then go lightly. The reason i mention this is the daigram is a form of basic algebra, -A + A = 0. No extra force and no extra resitence.
 By considering this, if a weight is 10 inches from center at it's inner position, then it's movement from 45 degrees before top center has as much resistence as force is generated by it's opposing motion.
 Like wise, when a weight moves to it's over balanced postion, it's movement down has the opposing effect when it passes bottom center. This allows for a space centered at the level of the axle (if the devicxe is stopped every 90 degrees of rotation to allow the weights to shift) where one weight will be lifted the same as the opposing weight drops.
 What this basic design allows for is that if the over balanced weight is 2 times further from the center, it will have twice the potential during it's period of over balance. Outside of this period, the motion and potential of the weights would average out having no extra force or resistence. If springs were used or if the wheel rotated slowly, then it might work without stopping every 90 degrees.
 I guess in it's simplest form, this design allows for the wheel to accelerate even if the drop and lift are the same for all weights.
  Hope you like   :)
 
                                                                                                                               Jim
                                       
forgot the diagram   :o
modified the diagram by adding 2 X's, they show the beginning and end point of the weight's over balanced position in the -B and B sections.

 

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