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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: Goat on February 20, 2012, 03:28:05 PM

Title: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: Goat on February 20, 2012, 03:28:05 PM
Hi All

I've been contemplating building professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device as described by Jean-Louis Naudin (JLN) at:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/gseamnu.htm

After reading and looking at the schematics that JLN came up with I noticed that it was different than the one shown in figure 4 of the above mentioned link. 

I know that JLN mentioned "I have not been able to find the 2SC521A used by Professor Seike, so, I have used common TIP 3055 NPN transistor." but my question to all EE's on this forum is:

How did JLN go from the values listed in figure 4 of the above link to the circuit he came up with on this page:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/seike/gseav3.htm


Now to make things even more interesting I did some more sleuthing around on the web and found out that Bob Boyce commented on this device in which he had built it differently using transformers instead of the lamps that JLN used and got very different results.

This is his quote from http://oupower.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1355

"by Bob Boyce » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:17 amHey there PalicYou may wish to try to source some NTE87 transistors. They are in a TO-3 case style, and are a better choice than the TIP3055 used by J L Naudin.In the mid 90s I built a successful replication of professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device using three of the NTE87 transistors as a set. I also used a set of three transformers. The outputs of these transformers were rectified and filtered, fed to a load, and back to the input as well. While running, it powered the load, and put a charge into the battery. When the battery was disconnected, the unit went into overunity runaway, quickly burning out both the load, and the transistors. I went through several sets of transistors before I eventually shelved the experiment for a later date. It was interesting to note that the heat sinks on the transistors would frost up every time, just prior to the voltage rise wiping out the transistors. It was as if a peltier effect was taking place in the transistors.Bob"

I would like to try both JLN's circuit and also Bob Boyce's circuit but I would also like to find out from anyone good in electronics how to go from the figure 4 diagrams to Bob Boyce's circuit.

Thanks in advance,

Paul
Title: GSEA Schematics
Post by: Goat on February 20, 2012, 03:37:54 PM
@All

I'm attaching the circuits mentioned above for comparison.
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: Goat on February 21, 2012, 02:00:26 AM
Hi all;

I just noticed that when I click the picture(s) to enlarge them it takes forever to load the schematic so I'm re-posting 2 of the schematics from figure 4 in separate posts so that everyone can see them without zooming in.

Edit: I just re-sized the image because the last one was unclear, I hope everyone can see this one clearly enough.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: Goat on February 21, 2012, 02:12:51 AM
Hi all;

Here's the second schematic in figure 4 which is the same components and values (I think).

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: poynt99 on February 21, 2012, 02:25:41 AM
I found one reference that the 2SC521A can be replaced with a MJ802 transistor.

Is this device supposed to be OU?

.99
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: poynt99 on February 21, 2012, 02:31:55 AM
See Bob's post part way down.

http://oupower.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1355 (http://oupower.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1355)
Quote
Hey there Palic
 
You may wish to try to source some NTE87 transistors. They are in a TO-3 case style, and are a better choice than the TIP3055 used by J L Naudin.
 
In the mid 90s I built a successful replication of professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device using three of the NTE87 transistors as a set. I also used a set of three transformers. The outputs of these transformers were rectified and filtered, fed to a load, and back to the input as well. While running, it powered the load, and put a charge into the battery. When the battery was disconnected, the unit went into overunity runaway, quickly burning out both the load, and the transistors. I went through several sets of transistors before I eventually shelved the experiment for a later date. It was interesting to note that the heat sinks on the transistors would frost up every time, just prior to the voltage rise wiping out the transistors. It was as if a peltier effect was taking place in the transistors.
 
Bob

Geez, I think I would have pursued this with a passion (not "shelved it") if this had happened to me.  ???

.99
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: Goat on February 21, 2012, 02:43:14 AM
See Bob's post part way down.

http://oupower.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1355 (http://oupower.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1355)
Geez, I think I would have pursued this with a passion (not "shelved it") if this had happened to me.  ???

.99

@ poynt99

Thank you for your reply, I do believe this might be a project worth looking at but as far as "Is this device supposed to be OU?" I'm not sure, that's why I think that it would be worth looking into and figure out what Bob Boyce used as far as components compared to JLN's version(s).

I agree with you wholeheartedly that it shouldn't have been shelved and that's why I'm asking for help in trying to figure out from the schematics of figure 4 what Bob Boyce used in his circuit to make it work the way he claims it did.

Can you help me figure out this puppy?

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: poynt99 on February 21, 2012, 02:48:46 AM
My Motorola "Bipolar Power Selector Guide" lists the 2N3716 as a "Similar Replacement".

Surely somewhere someone is claiming this device to be OU?

I simulated this circuit a long time ago when "ctglabs" was looking into it, and we determined that the wirewound resistors Seike used were causing a lot of phase shifts, and his measurements were being thrown off as a result.

But if this thing melts down with no battery attached, then that would be something worth looking at. Not sure if I believe Bob wholeheartedly though. ???

.99
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: poynt99 on February 21, 2012, 02:56:48 AM
My advice would be to disregard what JLN has done, and focus on replicating what Seike built.

.99
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: Goat on February 21, 2012, 03:00:44 AM
@ .99

What if the "wirewound resistors" were replaced with the "set of three transformers" that Bob Boyce mentioned, would that affect the circuit as shown in figure 4 ? 

Or would they help/hinder the circuit and component values? 

Did Bob have to change component values in order to accommodate the transformers instead of set of wirewound resistors/bulbs or transformers?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm not an EE and don't know much when it comes to different transistor types and component interactions.

Regards,
Paul


 
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: poynt99 on February 21, 2012, 03:07:04 AM
Yes,

Replacing "R3" with the primary of a transformer would make some sense in terms of stepping the voltage up or down, but we don't know exactly what Bob used.

I doubt Bob had to make any other changes to the values when he put in the transformers.

Maybe you should send Bob a message and see if he will "remember" what he used and how they were connected.

.99
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: poynt99 on February 21, 2012, 03:21:41 AM
Essentially what Seike has built is a Phase Shift Oscillator.

This was my simulation schematic.

.99
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: Goat on February 21, 2012, 03:25:38 AM
@ .99

Thanks for your reply and input, it's very much appreciated.

I'm not sure if I or anyone else could contact Bob Boyce and that is why I posted this as a thought experiment for EE's.

I think that if Bob managed to make it work then a lot of people on this forum could probably figure out what he used for components given that it's not that complicated of a circuit compared to what I've seen over the years.

JLN does mention that the circuit(s) that he experimented with operated in the MHZ which is  supposed to be beyond the limits of the transistors but I'm not an EE so I can't tell if what he's showing is actually true but.

If Bob Boyce's circuit in self run mode had a Peltier effect  on the transistors then I would propose the following.

Make the circuit start on battery mode until you reach a self sustaining voltage then switch the circuit into the self sustaining mode for only a certain amount of time for the transistors to cool off using the Peltier effect that Bob mentioned, then after monitoring the transistors with a heat sensing device switch back to the battery until the transistor heat up again and repeat the cycle.

I hope I'm not being over simplistic in my thinking but if what Bob experienced then it shouldn't have been "shelved" without further investigation.

Regards,
Paul


Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: poynt99 on February 21, 2012, 03:30:00 AM
I'll contact Bob and ask him.

.99
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: Goat on February 21, 2012, 03:33:09 AM
I'll contact Bob and ask him.

.99

Thanks .99 really appreciate your input.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: citizendc on March 30, 2013, 11:40:59 PM
Hello Op,

In answer to your question, I do not know why Naudin chose those transistors. I am speculating, perhaps Naudin couldnt get hold of the original transistors Seike used.  I remember he noted he wanted to replicate the experiment again using the 2SC521A transistors.

I've replicated Naudins experiment and Seike's using the rather rare 2SC521A transistors. The results were different.
For more info see my reply on the energetic forum: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4564-gsea-naudin.html
Unfortunately the images of the experiment are not available at present, Ill put them back up in 48 hours.

I stopped further development at the time because I didnt know what to make of the results. Perhaps if we work together we can make better progress.

Best,
 C
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: TinselKoala on March 31, 2013, 06:37:04 AM
Did your transistors frost up? That, I'd like to see.

The 2sc521a is available from UTSource. It takes about 10 working days to receive your order after ordering on-line. I've done two orders from these people and have no complaints.

http://www.utsource.net/2sc521a.html (http://www.utsource.net/2sc521a.html)
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: citizendc on March 31, 2013, 02:20:33 PM
No, but they ran cool when compared to the transistors Naudin used.

Images are uploaded. I'm going to source some non inductive resistors as recommended by EGMQC from the energetic forum and compare the results.
Thanks for the transistor source I still have 3 spare. I purchased mine from littlediode.com for reference.


Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: e2matrix on April 01, 2013, 07:45:23 AM
Fascinating circuit - I'm surprised there has not been more interest in it.  I see here and on EF most of this was from a couple years ago.  Poynt99 said he was going to contact Bob Boyce but I didn't see any response about the outcome if he did. 
citizendc,  Very nice work you did on this but I'm uncertain of what results you achieved.  It sounds like you had something really good.  I think I have all I need to put this together with TIP3055's but I'm not really clear on whether JLN was getting something close to OU.  It sound like it may have been at the higher voltages but it wasn't real clear to me on that either.   Sounded like Boyce had OU but he shelved it?   I guess sometimes when a person has a huge success standing right in front of them personal limitations kick in and people sometimes run scared from their own super success potential.  People are often not comfortable with huge life changes and a major breakthrough in energy could definitely be life changing.   Such a simple circuit - something about it's geometry that fascinates me....
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: citizendc on April 02, 2013, 12:47:28 AM
>>  I see here and on EF most of this was from a couple years ago.

Yes, at the time I was active a bit more active in the OU community.
I did one more experiment replicating another of Seike's endless amps and shelved all further research as my real life job/work was becoming a bit too demanding.

The last experiment can be seen here (ive restored the website) --> http://www.poweroverair.com/
Note the website is incomplete in areas.

>> Such a simple circuit - something about it's geometry that fascinates me

I know what you mean.


This circuit is only a piece of the full design that is shared in Seike's work (see he's ultra relativity book). I think Seike published this simpler circuit to support he's theories, leaving the researcher to follow from there.
The full circuit includes a barium titanate (Dielectric and Piezoelectric) core surrounded by this endless amplifier with some additional components (plenty of mobius coils).

My own findings with the 3 phase endless amp circuits revealed a voltage increase. There was no outright OU effect for me with the 3 phase design but that doesnt mean its not possible.
What did impress me was that Seike's transistors ran cold while the TIPP transistors ran quite hot, both showed a voltage increase and high frequency tho.

Once I have tested the 3 phase amp with non inductive resistors I plan to setup a 9 phase circuit using smaller cost effective transistors (recommended by Seike). I am curious to see what the differences are in the frequency and voltage with more phases.

>>  I think I have all I need to put this together with TIP3055's

Cool, if you replicate the circuit, post your findings; I'm interested to hear about any results or observations you make.


C.
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: e2matrix on April 02, 2013, 03:24:31 AM
Thanks for the additional info.  Did you (or anyone) ever find the earlier 7th edition of his Ultra Relativity book?   I got the 8th one with the missing sections and much reduced page count but couldn't find the 7th yet anywhere.   
I haven't started working on that circuit yet but will likely very soon.   I tried your web site but it says 'can't connect to server'.   Nothing there however when I pinged your site it returns pings fast enough so I can reach that IP address okay.   Putting the IP number directly into the browser gives a "Bad Request (Invalid Hostname)"  so doesn't appear to be a DNS issue...   just in case that helps you find the problem. 
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: wings on April 02, 2013, 07:28:52 AM
oops
Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: citizendc on April 02, 2013, 11:54:32 AM
>> Did you (or anyone) ever find the earlier 7th edition of his Ultra Relativity book?   
I worked from the 8th edition. Still keeping an eye out for the 7th but nothing so far.
One can also try writing to Seike's research foundation and request a copy (if they still exist?).

>> I tried your web site but it says 'can't connect to server'
Aah tnx, I double checked again, its working OK for me. Could be an browser/ SSL  issue tho, hosting a couple of sites on that one IP. Try another browser and see if it works for you.

Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: e2matrix on April 02, 2013, 06:37:10 PM
>> Did you (or anyone) ever find the earlier 7th edition of his Ultra Relativity book?   
I worked from the 8th edition. Still keeping an eye out for the 7th but nothing so far.
One can also try writing to Seike's research foundation and request a copy (if they still exist?).

>> I tried your web site but it says 'can't connect to server'
Aah tnx, I double checked again, its working OK for me. Could be an browser/ SSL  issue tho, hosting a couple of sites on that one IP. Try another browser and see if it works for you.
Thanks,   I tried again just now with same browser and it works fine.  Yesterday no go though.  Computer and network tech for 30+ years. I'm sure it was just down at the time I tried for some reason.   
 Do you think parts were removed from the book because they may have had too much info?  Maybe enough to easily create OU?  I expect it will be hard to get hold of that 7th edition.

Title: Re: Need EE to figure out Professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device
Post by: citizendc on April 03, 2013, 06:26:05 PM
>> Computer and network tech for 30+ years. I'm sure it was just down at the time I tried for some reason.
Glad to hear its working. That is some time spent in IT. I work in the IT field myself btw.

>> Do you think parts were removed from the book because they may have had too much info?  Maybe enough to easily create OU?  I expect it will be hard to get hold of that 7th edition.
Perhaps, there are definitely parts entirely missing, for example,  there is mention of a solid state battery, according to the index of the book it was revised and ceased. The 2 pages for that part are missing.
Regarding the other pages; Its possible that this book was written with one page in Japanese and another in English. This would explain why nearly every second page is missing.

As for getting hold of the 7th edition copy; We can try posting on "Amazon's book finding" section (done this once) or write to various Japense universities (or any institution mentioned in he's book) and inquire by them. Someone somewhere has this book, just need to find them.