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Author Topic: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine  (Read 12515 times)

Offline vineet_kiran

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Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« on: February 19, 2012, 05:09:03 AM »
 
 
Magnetic Engine using spring screen

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Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« on: February 19, 2012, 05:09:03 AM »

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 01:22:38 PM »

 
Magnetic Engine using spring screen
Wonder how the stationary magnet will affect the springs behaviour - how it actually feels like compressing and releasing the spring in a magnetic field depending on the other magnets position. I have rod magnets, lots of them measuring 70 x 5 x 5mm, with the polarity you have described - through thickness. I will try this setup, just to see what happens in practice.


Vidar

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 05:06:05 AM »
Wonder how the stationary magnet will affect the springs behaviour - how it actually feels like compressing and releasing the spring in a magnetic field depending on the other magnets position. I have rod magnets, lots of them measuring 70 x 5 x 5mm, with the polarity you have described - through thickness. I will try this setup, just to see what happens in practice.


Vidar

 
@vidar,
 
Wish you best of luck.   If you don't  mind kindly keep me or forum informed about the results and also the setup details (as done by you)
 
Regards,
 
Vineet.K.
 
 
 

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 05:06:05 AM »
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Offline Arrow

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 07:30:39 AM »

 
Magnetic Engine using spring screen
well if this is engine something has to turn if it is so try spiral maget setup to catch your spring magnet and ets, but first think how to run spiral magnet disk:)
Good luck

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 10:15:20 AM »

 
@vidar,
 
Wish you best of luck.   If you don't  mind kindly keep me or forum informed about the results and also the setup details (as done by you)
 
Regards,
 
Vineet.K.
No problem. I guess it's fine to make a spring out of steel wire. The magnets and the wire is hidden behind all the kitchen and bathroom inventory in my garage (See the video at 32 seconds or so). To access it I must first set up the kitchen inventory where it belongs, but that will be done very soon. It depends a little on the electrichian to finish the outlets etc. first.


A small video of the place :-) If you don't like dance music, just mute the volume.... ;-))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_QKDq7XfB0

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 10:15:20 AM »
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Offline Arrow

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 12:29:15 PM »
Wonder how the stationary magnet will affect the springs behaviour - how it actually feels like compressing and


Vidar
Dear Vidar, let me guess:) compressed spring will shield mag.flux but not on 100%, somewere 70-80% because spring weirs will have little (micro) air gap. If you want to see 100% shielding of 2 magnets - get 2 old HDD, remove head Neo magnets and try to stick them bottom to bottom side - I have 100% flux shield effect at such magnets and can prove it by video in such demand.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 01:12:03 PM »
Dear Vidar, let me guess:) compressed spring will shield mag.flux but not on 100%, somewere 70-80% because spring weirs will have little (micro) air gap. If you want to see 100% shielding of 2 magnets - get 2 old HDD, remove head Neo magnets and try to stick them bottom to bottom side - I have 100% flux shield effect at such magnets and can prove it by video in such demand.
You have a good point, but the "main point" is to change flux density from the stationary magnet which affects the moving magnet. A 100% shield is no point. You also see that conventional electric motors does work with just a little current applied to the electromagnets, but higher current and higher flux density increase RPM and power.


The main point here is to proove the concept of spring shielding. However, I have a feeling that the spring shielding responds similar to any other kind of shield which is going in and out of a magnetic field. It takes more effort to shield a magnet if another magnet is already in close proximity, than far away (or the opposite if the polarity on one magnet is reversed). These magnetic shielding properties is the key reason why alternating shielding that is driven by the machine itself cannot sustain or increase its own power in a closed loop.


I think the spring theory (not string theory) is an interesting concept anyways, so I want to try it out in practice.


Vidar

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 01:12:03 PM »
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Offline Arrow

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 03:54:24 PM »

I think the spring theory (not string theory) is an interesting concept anyways, so I want to try it out in practice.


Vidar
:) Interesting direction of research, it is close to low power magnet actuators but already with additional smart flux flex control.
guess it ( spring will need some programmed hardware & software to monitor the system behavior to be squeezed or released...
hmm...

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 08:24:32 PM »
:) Interesting direction of research, it is close to low power magnet actuators but already with additional smart flux flex control.
guess it ( spring will need some programmed hardware & software to monitor the system behavior to be squeezed or released...
hmm...
No need for software. The spring with the magnet inside can be compressed partially with a mechanical springloaded device. When another magnet is approaching the spring, the spring will respond with further or less compression due to change in magnetic flux in the gap between the stationary and the moving magnet. The change in the springs compliance will affect the mechanism which compresses it, and the result can be seen visually.
If the spring compress further in repel mode between the magnets, we will possibly have a problem. Because the spring is suppose to be expanded in order to make the magnet inside to repel the moving magnet. If the spring is held back from expanding properly, more energy must be applied to the spring in order to expand it. And when the moving magnet is farther away, when the spring is suppose to compress, it will take additional energy to compress it in order to let the moving magnet move back towards the stationary magnet. My guess is therfor that the extra energy needed to expand and compress the spring, will counter the energy gained by the magnets.


However, if the opposite happens, we have a good approach to a selfsustaining machine.


To simplify the design, the moving magnet can be a rotary magnet instead. To let it run a piston will be harder to assamble and less efficient - if efficient at all.


I will do some FEMM simulations on this. The results will be posted here.


Vidar

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 08:24:32 PM »
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Offline Arrow

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 12:41:02 AM »
...that the extra energy needed to expand and compress the spring, ....

Vidar
exactly! that is why I said "hmm" in my post:)

I can not understand only one thing here, why we need other shield if steel in pack with air gap making good job?
just for testing spring idea?
see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mayO2RsLfaQ
tell me what is the problem to use this type of shield in piston magnetic engine where only 2 magnets are working?
1 magnet at the top where we have generally valves of general engine and second magnet at the piston top surface and between of those magnets is fast magnetic electrically powered from DL CAPs  bidirectional actuator which is moving shield horizontally at the piston tic time to close magnets flux and in the next tic  opening chamber hole to give possibility to magnets to pull with max force? Sorry for my English .
Only don't say that it is not possible to reduce engine piston, crankshaft etc friction to get the goal.there are 100 ways to make such mecanics with very low friction factor because magnetic piston engine do not need to have piston rings, compression, time shaft , shall I coninue the list?
do you know what is DL caps?do you know whatis fast low power bidirectional magnetic actuators?

Rob

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 02:01:02 PM »
exactly! that is why I said "hmm" in my post:)

I can not understand only one thing here, why we need other shield if steel in pack with air gap making good job?
just for testing spring idea?
see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mayO2RsLfaQ
tell me what is the problem to use this type of shield in piston magnetic engine where only 2 magnets are working?
1 magnet at the top where we have generally valves of general engine and second magnet at the piston top surface and between of those magnets is fast magnetic electrically powered from DL CAPs  bidirectional actuator which is moving shield horizontally at the piston tic time to close magnets flux and in the next tic  opening chamber hole to give possibility to magnets to pull with max force? Sorry for my English .
Only don't say that it is not possible to reduce engine piston, crankshaft etc friction to get the goal.there are 100 ways to make such mecanics with very low friction factor because magnetic piston engine do not need to have piston rings, compression, time shaft , shall I coninue the list?
do you know what is DL caps?do you know whatis fast low power bidirectional magnetic actuators?

Rob
The reason I don't like piston movements isn't the friction, but the mass that has to change direction all the time. A solely rotary motor is more efficient.


I did some FEMM simulations yesterday. I see now how the spring will respond to the magnetic field. When the magnets are pointing N towards N horizontally (with the spring aligned vertically around one of the magnets), the spring wants to compress at the top and bottom of the magnets when they are approaching eachother. The spring will therfor also expand in the middle.
When both magnets points N vertically (polarized through length), the spring wants to compress in the middle and expand at the top and bottom. The spring wants to do this because the force applied to the moving magnet will also force the spring to align in such a way to reduce the repelling force between the magnets. Reaction = action.


So it seams the spring shield will behave similar to any other kind of shield.
Well, not shield, but rather a magnetic guide is what these steel parts actually are. The term "shield" means rather that the material blocks/absorb magnetism without being affected by it mechanicly. Such a shield dos yet not exist.


Vidar

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 02:01:02 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 05:59:12 AM »
The reason I don't like piston movements isn't the friction, but the mass that has to change direction all the time. A solely rotary motor is more efficient.


I did some FEMM simulations yesterday. I see now how the spring will respond to the magnetic field. When the magnets are pointing N towards N horizontally (with the spring aligned vertically around one of the magnets), the spring wants to compress at the top and bottom of the magnets when they are approaching eachother. The spring will therfor also expand in the middle.


@Vidar,
 
That is well in confirmity with what I have said in my setup.   When you compress the spring, you will be holding the spring with some force.   When piston comes close to the stationary magnet the spring tries to expand because of repulsion between individual strands  so that you can easily release the spring which causes immediate repulsion pushing the piston magnet back imparting energy to flywheel.   Hence expansion of spring can be considered advantageous than dis advantageous.
 
The idea of using piston & fly wheel arrangement is to gain time for movement of shield. If you use rotary magnet you don't get time for movement of shield.  That is the reason why it is not possible to make rotary all magnet motors.
 
 
Regards,
 
Vineet.K.
 
 
 

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Spring Screen Magnetic Engine
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2012, 09:17:24 PM »

@Vidar,
 
That is well in confirmity with what I have said in my setup.   When you compress the spring, you will be holding the spring with some force.   When piston comes close to the stationary magnet the spring tries to expand because of repulsion between individual strands  so that you can easily release the spring which causes immediate repulsion pushing the piston magnet back imparting energy to flywheel.   Hence expansion of spring can be considered advantageous than dis advantageous.
 
The idea of using piston & fly wheel arrangement is to gain time for movement of shield. If you use rotary magnet you don't get time for movement of shield.  That is the reason why it is not possible to make rotary all magnet motors.
 
 
Regards,
 
Vineet.K.
The simulations show me partially what is happening. I WILL try this in practice. Now my magnets are possible to find to, so I can make this thing and see what's happening.


The plan is to use a plastic tube where I put the stationary magnet inside. Outside the tube I will wind a spring of thin wire. I have som 0.1mm nickel wire. I think nickel is magnetic. My iron wire is 1mm or so - too rigid to get a good visual of what is happening.



Vidar

 

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