Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 84189
  • *Latest: Erwin360

  • *Total Posts: 897162
  • *Total Topics: 15807
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 21
  • *Total: 22

Author Topic: Magnetic Engine  (Read 34094 times)

Offline truesearch

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2015, 08:55:52 PM »
@lumen:


Can you give the measurements of both the shields and magnets that you experimented with for the effect in your diagram in post http://www.overunity.com/11994/magnetic-engine/msg440471/#msg440471


Thanks!


truesearch

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2015, 08:55:52 PM »

Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2015, 09:25:17 PM »
@lumen:


Can you give the measurements of both the shields and magnets that you experimented with for the effect in your diagram in post http://www.overunity.com/11994/magnetic-engine/msg440471/#msg440471


Thanks!


truesearch

I know the magnets were 3/4" cube but I need to dig up the shield which I'm thinking was about .062 wall but I'll find them.
 

Offline vineet_kiran

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2015, 07:51:18 AM »
 Video at :

http://youtu.be/kOQYEzIhTqU

You can see that when a roller is used below the shield, it can be easily moved over a uniform magnetic field causing 'ON' and 'OFF' of the flux w.r.t.  another repelling magnet.  I have used a big steel ball and gap is more but even if you use a smaller steel ball you will get the same result.

If you don't use a roller and just slide the shield on magnet, it causes tremendous loss of energy due magnetic attraction.

Using a roller (not wheel) below a moving body is a very interesting phenomenon.  Best example is Egyptians lifted very huge and heavy stones up the pyramid using rollers!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2015, 07:51:18 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Newton II

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2015, 09:43:31 AM »
Steel ball and steel shield are in repulsion because flux flows through them in one direction from bottom magnet. That is the reason for free movement of shield on the steel ball.  Shield will be held to the ball because it experiences more attractive force from the bottom magnet than repulsive force from the ball.

So, if you make repulsive force between ball and shield equal to attractive force between shield and magnet, then you can move shield without experiencing any force!!! (infact some friction force is required to keep roller in  motion)



Offline vineet_kiran

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2015, 03:09:49 PM »
So, if you make repulsive force between ball and shield equal to attractive force between shield and magnet, then you can move shield without experiencing any force!!! (infact some friction force is required to keep roller in  motion)


That condition can be achieved just be arranging magnets without using roller itself.   Have a look at the attachment.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2015, 03:09:49 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3364
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2015, 06:24:49 PM »
Steel ball and steel shield are in repulsion because flux flows through them in one direction from bottom magnet. That is the reason for free movement of shield on the steel ball.  Shield will be held to the ball because it experiences more attractive force from the bottom magnet than repulsive force from the ball.

This is not accurate.  What is shown here in that video, no matter how you orient the magnet, the fields will induce in the same direction.
causing Attraction, not repulsion.  follow

magnet [N : S ] -> [N(ball)S] -> [N(steel)S]  OR   magnet [S : N] -> [S(ball)N] -> [S(steel)N]

either way, you have N&s poles attracting each other.

the reasons there is a reduced force between them:
 is (1) because the lines ( or direction) of flux follows the shape of the materials.
The ball pulls the flux around itself back to the other side, center of magnetism is near the center of the ball.
   (not exactly at center, because its shifted towards the stronger field of the inducing magnet itself)

in the Steel - the poles are orientated in the same direction, however, the flux is pulled perpendicular to the tangent of the balls surface.
    this is because the steel is very thin, and long. the magnetism tries to travel the length of the steel.
       center of magnetism in the steel is the center of the thickness, but the outer edges of the loop are stretched down the length

also, the attraction point of magnetism in a sphere is a small point tangent to the surface. weaker magnets like the ceramic ferrite shown here,
do not attract the ball very much and it rolls rather freely. a neo will hold it a little stronger, but it still doesn't take much force to move the ball.
The strength of the (induced) field itself in the sphere, will depend on the mass of the magnetizing material, and the strength of the inducing field (magnet).
    However, the attraction force, is only a fraction of that at or near the contact-point, as a result of tangential surface area.

Offline Low-Q

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2015, 07:22:52 PM »

Magnetic Engine using permanent magnets
I have experimented with something similar a few years ago.


First off: A uniform magnetic field does not attract or repel anything.
Second: If the magnets is repelling eachother, it is harder to remove the iron plate than put it in place when the small magnet is not present.


Some how, the energy you gain by sync. the shielding, will be taken back by removing the iron plate. It's true. I have tried.

Edit: I have already replied to this Feb. 10.th...  :o

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2015, 07:22:52 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2015, 07:35:37 PM »
Basic rule for magnetic field redirection (shielding)
1: Magnets in repulsion = Strong attraction to shield
2: Magnets in attraction = Little attraction to shield
 
 
 

Offline Low-Q

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2840
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2015, 08:18:13 PM »
Here are some consideration you should note:
1- use a shield like mumetal not steel.  Steel in close proximity to a magnet becomes a magnet itself.
2- the shield surface area or size should extend to cover the magnetic field of the magnet to be shielded not the magnet itself.  Meaning the shield should be at least 6 times or more bigger than the magnet to be shielded. 
3- use polymer wheels not steel.  Reduce the attraction to the magnet (Less work).
4- use mechanical gears to synchronize the movement of shield and piston.  Timing is everything.
Goodluck
1. Mumetal is good. It does not as much as iron become magnetized, but it will not make any practical outcome of the experiment.
2. Is 6 times larger something you have experimentet with, or is it just an example of the shields size?
3. Agree. At least something non magnetic.
4. Gears are better than belt transmission - even if the belt has teeth. Less friction with gears, but the timing part will not change the outcome of the system.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2015, 08:18:13 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3364
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2015, 01:24:59 AM »
6 times may be a useful estimate, using certain magnets, but "field size", and field strength are two entirely different concepts.

Using only one test material of magnets, you may find a relationship between the size of the field and the strength of the magnets to be
somewhat proportional, for instance, a stronger magnet of the same type will produce a "larger" field.

But, different materials have completely different effects.
for instance, when you compare a ceramic ferrite magnet, to let's say a neo.
the ceramic ferrite will have a much larger "field size" than the neo, but much lower "strength".

The magnetic equations predict the relationship of field strength with the square of the distance from the magnet. This holds true in most cases, as the field itself is in fact infinite in size, ever-reducing in strength. What the equations are actually referring to is an EMF, not a magnetized material.

But in practice, we examine what is called the "effective field", and this is what is usually referred to as its "size"
    meaning the spatial area (volume) consumed by the field at a strength at which it "affects" the materials we are experimenting with.
    i.e. attraction or repulsion.

The field domains are much tighter in a stronger neo magnet, therefore the "effective field" will be much more compact.
  While in a ceramic ferrite, the field domains are loose, and the "effective field" will cover a larger volume of space.


It is also important to note, that when shielding a magnetic field, you greatly alter its shape and effective size. This is caused by the field domains entering into the shield material. Sometimes this can produce stray magnetic domains projected far outside the test area, or reduce the domains to far inside the expected volume of space. And often does so in a non-symmetrical manner.


Offline Newton II

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2015, 03:33:09 AM »
This is not accurate.  What is shown here in that video, no matter how you orient the magnet, the fields will induce in the same direction.
causing Attraction, not repulsion.  follow

magnet [N : S ] -> [N(ball)S] -> [N(steel)S]  OR   magnet [S : N] -> [S(ball)N] -> [S(steel)N]



May be you are right.   But what I feel is,  when you keep a steel ball on a magnet, same type of flux coming from bottom magnet covers entire surface of ball inducing one type of pole on the entire surface of ball and opposite pole will be concentrated at the inside mass centre of the ball.  In this case the concentrated pole at the centre will be stronger than pole on the entire surface which is distributed over larger surface area!!!  (not sure)




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2015, 03:33:09 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3364
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2015, 03:49:11 AM »

May be you are right.   But what I feel is,  when you keep a steel ball on a magnet, same type of flux coming from bottom magnet covers entire surface of ball inducing one type of pole on the entire surface of ball and opposite pole will be concentrated at the inside mass centre of the ball.  In this case the concentrated pole at the centre will be stronger than pole on the entire surface which is distributed over larger surface area!!!  (not sure)

IF that were the case, than making a "monopole" would be that simple, unfortunately it is not.
here is a drawing to visualize what actually takes place when you stick a steel ball onto a magnet.
you can see this by bringing another magnet near the other side of the ball and experimenting with the attraction and repulsion forces of the two poles. When you roll the ball around, the pole orientation stays pretty much the same, changing the internal flux through the ball material.

Offline CANGAS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2015, 05:13:48 AM »
1. Mumetal is good. It does not as much as iron become magnetized, but it will not make any practical outcome of the experiment.
2. Is 6 times larger something you have experimentet with, or is it just an example of the shields size?
3. Agree. At least something non magnetic.
4. Gears are better than belt transmission - even if the belt has teeth. Less friction with gears, but the timing part will not change the outcome of the system.


Vidar



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_%28mechanical%29

The mechanical engineering rule of thumb is that:

A gear drives loses 10% of input power to friction each time that one gear meshes with another.

A film belt drive loses 2% in each case of one belt connecting two pulleys.

A flat belt drive loses 2% in each case of one belt connecting two pulleys.

A toothed timing belt drive loses 2% in each case of one belt connecting two pulleys.

A v belt drive...Fugget about it.

A chain drive loses 1% to 10% in each case of one chain connecting two sprockets, depending of course on the condition of the setup.


You are welcome
CANGAS 145

Offline vineet_kiran

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Magnetic Engine
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2015, 05:33:31 AM »

First off: A uniform magnetic field does not attract or repel anything.


You have totally mistaken the working concept.   Uniform magnetic field is not in the sense that flux density is same starting from the pole to  any given distance from the pole outside the magnet.

I said uniform magnetic field in the sense that flux density in any plane parallel to a lengthy pole  will be same at all points because all points on a parallel plane (plane of shield)  will be equi-distant  from the pole.  This plane (or shield) will be obviously attracted towards pole because flux density is more near the poles but it can be moved in that parallel plane without experiencing any force.

Second: If the magnets is repelling eachother, it is harder to remove the iron plate than put it in place when the small magnet is not present.

That force can be totally eliminated by suitably arranging the magnets.  Shield and the magnet are two separate materials and forces acting on them will act as external forces.  Hence by properly arranging vaious forces,  you can eliminate the net effective force.  See the shielding arrangement which I have posted vide attachment in my earlier reply.

Some how, the energy you gain by sync. the shielding, will be taken back by removing the iron plate. It's true. I have tried.

There is no point in just making one attempt and lift your hands up.  You have to try with different combinations and designs just as Edison encountered 5,000 failures before he made a working lead-acid battery.

 

OneLink