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Author Topic: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy  (Read 193572 times)

Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #180 on: February 19, 2012, 05:05:17 PM »
@poynt99
As far as 800W output sim file is concerned, dont waste your time on that. It is unstable schematic. Damping occurred after 4 minutes in my case. However schematic of 42 W output is stable. I made it the hardware run for 1 and a half day and the bulb was continuously lighting.

What happened after the 1 and a half days? Did it quite running?

.99

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Offline dole

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #181 on: February 19, 2012, 09:11:54 PM »
Hi,
I was very concern about 337 uH and so far I did not even try so low inductance. ( I am at mH range)
For those who want to “save” FG I may suggest hex Schmitt trigger HCF40106B, what I tried as FET driver at 50% duty cycle.
First I wanted to see if there is any relation at resonance frequency of the tank circuit
(capacitive and inductive reactances equal to each other so the total impedance will increase),
but I am not sure if this is possible with a square wave (Gyula ?)
I may only report that I was able to hold around 4-5V in 4700 uF capacitor without R.
But changing properties of tank circuit this was even not possible at all, so it may be that there is some relation there.
So far nothing miracle and I did not burn anything jet :)
But no rush there is only one week left and Ali will be safe home and uncover everything….. I guess.
d.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #182 on: February 19, 2012, 11:36:53 PM »
Hi Dole,

If you go up with the coil in the mH range from the 330-350uH values (this latter depends on the preferable measured 18uF capacitor),  then you inrease the resonant impedance of the LC tank circuit. 
Here is a link, unfortunately it needs Windows Internet Explorer to run it, it is able to calculate the resonant impedance of a parallel LC circuit once you give it the coil series resistance (the DC resistance is already ok to be in the ballpark).
http://www.thetaeng.com/calc_LC_tank.htm

And when you increase the resonant  impedance in this circuit then the current taken from the 4700uF capacitor will be less of course when the MOSFET switches ON.  If we knew how long the 1mm wire Ali had in his coil, we could calculate the DC resistance, hence we would know his tank circuit's resonant impedance at 2 kHz.  From the link I gave in earlier post, a 3m long 1mm diameter copper wire has got 0.064 Ohm DC resistance,  let's 'ruin' this to 0.07 Ohm, this results in 278.5 Ohm resonant impedance when the L=351uH and C=18uF.  So this 278.5 Ohm is which  governs the current via the switch when it is controlled by 1kHz, the current taken from the 4700uF in this case is 40V/278.5Ohm=143.6mA. 
Now if you have say a 3mH coil with 1 Ohm DC resistance, then your tuning cap value is about 2106nF and the resonant impedance 1424.5 Ohm, much higher than with the 351uH coil  (OF COURSE this impedance strictly depends on the actual wire resistance either Ali or you actually have got).

You ask on the square wave drive if it creates resonance, yes it does, no problem. 

Gyula

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #182 on: February 19, 2012, 11:36:53 PM »
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Offline dole

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #183 on: February 20, 2012, 01:28:55 AM »
@Gyula
Thanks, I perfectly understand all that you are saying but as I see it from my testing the biggest problem is the tuning.
At the point when I am out of the resonant pulse, there will be a large increase of 4700uF dissipation due to decrees of
LC resistance and not only that but this will immediately destroy parallel LC oscillation and result in FET overload.
Theoretically at the resonance LC resistance = infinite, but I was never able to get there.
Finally mixing this with nonlinear R (load) in the series LCR seems not so easy to achieve!?

So it must be some way to self-tune to this nonlinear oscillation (Gyula ?) because we are in the real world and not in an ideal simulation.

But with hard work.. maybe :)
d. 


Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #184 on: February 20, 2012, 01:44:32 AM »
So I took the plunge and downloaded Multisim in order to see what is going on with Ali's OU simulation.

There are a number of simulation settings that Ali changed when compared to the standard default settings, but only one had the effect of enabling the continuous oscillation, and it is the RETOL setting. This can be found in the "Simulate->Interactive Simulation Settings->Analysis Options tab->Use custom settings-> customize...->Global tab".

The default setting for this is a value of 0.001, whereas Ali has it set to a magnitude higher at 0.01. This is the limit at which NI recommends you set it, but evidently, this setting causes excessive errors in Multisim, because changing this parameter in OrCad PSpice does NOT cause this error of continuous oscillation. This explains why Ali did not upload an equivalent OrCad file. btw, increasing RETOL should only be done when convergence is a problem, but this circuit converges just fine with the 0.001 setting.

IMHO, Multisim is a cumbersome program to use in comparison to OrCad PSpice. It seems to have some limitations as well, but it does have some modern (but minor) features that PSpice seems to be lacking. And now having seen this error in the coding, I'd say Multisim is well suited for educational purposes, but it's not a serious engineering tool.

See the attached for a little info on the "RETOL" parameter.

Sorry Ali, tweaking a faulty program to coax it into doing something it shouldn't be capable of, doesn't cut it in terms of making a claim of OU imo. But kudos to you for finding and exploiting that flaw. ;)

Now, if you can show a video of this actual circuit continuously powering a load, then we will have something of real interest to discuss.  ;D

Regards,
.99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #184 on: February 20, 2012, 01:44:32 AM »
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Offline JJUK

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #185 on: February 20, 2012, 10:02:45 AM »
Like .99, I'm looking forward to seeing the video that Ghazanfar has promised us on return from his offsite operations. When can we expect that Ghazanfar? I think we're pretty close to 3 weeks now.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #186 on: February 21, 2012, 12:23:36 AM »
...
At the point when I am out of the resonant pulse, there will be a large increase of 4700uF dissipation due to decrees of
LC resistance and not only that but this will immediately destroy parallel LC oscillation and result in FET overload.

 Hi Dole, 
 
 These 3 things: detuning the LC tank from the real input frequency and the increase of the current taken from the 4700uF and possible FET overload are connected to one thing: the much lower LC tank reactance away from its resonance and you surely know this, I mention just to emphasize. The resonant voltage across the LC tank cannot develop when either the input frequency does not match the LC's resonant frequency or the LC tank circuit is not tuned to the input frequency: in both cases the LC tank is not a 'tank' and has low reactance, this means it can pass high current.
 
 
 
Quote
Theoretically at the resonance LC resistance = infinite, but I was never able to get there.
Finally mixing this with nonlinear R (load) in the series LCR seems not so easy to achieve!?

So it must be some way to self-tune to this nonlinear oscillation (Gyula ?) because we are in the real world and not in an ideal simulation.

But with hard work.. maybe :)
d.

 I think we can rightly forget about the theoretical LC behaviour when we build such circuits, we are in the real world indeed with lossy components, no wonder you cannot find huge resonant voltage across the LC tank if this is what you mean. 
 The bulbs are indeed nonlinear loads and when they are cold at first switch-on, they have much less resistance of course, behaving as a 'more severe', a heavier load, then their resistance increases as the current heats them up (if enough current is available).
 It would be good to know whether the nonlinear load behaviour is needed for this circuit or a constant load (like a high wattage 150 Ohm linear resistor) would just be also fine.  Further considerations could surely be made on what you call 'self-tune to the nonlinear oscillations'  but this is too early as yet I think.  IF you do not have a scope to see the waveforms as shown in the simulation, then all what you can do to be sure you have the LC tank in resonance is using an LC meter and tweak the values as Ali described earlier (a 18uF capacitor is not easy to find, you may have to assemble it from several pieces in parallel,  and your some mH coil is way too high with respect to Ali's uH (347-367) value,  though it might work with mH coil too, who knows...
 
 rgds,  Gyula

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #186 on: February 21, 2012, 12:23:36 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #187 on: February 21, 2012, 07:55:26 AM »
4.7uF x 4  ;)

Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #188 on: February 21, 2012, 08:11:11 PM »

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #188 on: February 21, 2012, 08:11:11 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #189 on: February 21, 2012, 09:09:13 PM »
poynt,

Forest referred to my last post where I wrote to dole that it was not easy to find a 18uF capacitor and could be assembled from several pieces. 

 4 times 4.7 gives  18.8uF,  close enough.

Offline dole

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #190 on: February 21, 2012, 11:04:39 PM »
Hi Gyula
 Thank you very much for your time and all writings. I do not have anything to say,
 everything is just perfectly correct and only the worst thing is left.. to do it properly.
 Actually this may not apply directly to Ali-OU, but more like ultimate principle of electromagnetic resonance.
 As I see it, all around us are just pure capacitance and this must be only way extracting it.
 But I (we) first need to start crawl before I can even try to go.
 Yes, I have 18uF AC and the others, many ferrite cores and type of FET’s (including IRFP 260/264).
 I was playing with “my incorrect” Tesla stuff for a while but that’s enough.
 Messing with TV signals and destroying WLANs. I felt it not correct, almost like throwing 100 stones (SG) and one or two will hit the wine glass,
 I am thinking now at only tiny one, with the exact enough energy at right place.
 I will come back to you with more questions but my problem is time as I cannot buy the money or the time.
 
 1-    2044Hz- Initial test of HCF40106B as MOSFET driver measured at coil (not good 50%, fixed with better C&R)
 2-    4700 uF oscillation, much slower than LC tank, yes there is spikes there I have somewhere better picture but dies due to not sustain LC tank
 3-    LC tank – not nice so no picture jet :)
 4-    Something to try later
 
 Xdole
 
 

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #190 on: February 21, 2012, 11:04:39 PM »
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Offline AbbaRue

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #191 on: February 25, 2012, 05:09:33 AM »
Here is a circuit I made with Circuit Simulator v1.5n

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

It puts out 1600W from only 28 watts input.
Test this in these other simulators and see if you get these results as well.

Offline broli

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #192 on: February 25, 2012, 09:27:06 AM »
So Ali we're 3 weeks later, I hope you will upload those videos now.

Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #193 on: February 25, 2012, 03:09:10 PM »
Show your wave forms and power calculations/wave forms please.

Offline wings

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #194 on: February 25, 2012, 06:32:20 PM »
Here is a circuit I made with Circuit Simulator v1.5n

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

It puts out 1600W from only 28 watts input.
Test this in these other simulators and see if you get these results as well.

regarding 8 lightbulbs load resistance
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2071/1582918380_9bd8356cf0.jpg



In a light bulb, the resistance of the filament wire will increase dramatically as it warms from room temperature to operating temperature.[/size]
http://cnx.org/content/m32840/latest/

 

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