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Author Topic: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy  (Read 180979 times)

Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #135 on: February 10, 2012, 12:10:35 PM »
poynt... would the global temp setting (if memory serves it's usually around 300K) being set to 0 or negative cause this?

That's a possibility I hadn't thought of. I've never adjusted the global temperature in my sims, but  the default setting in PSpice is 27C.

The strange thing to me is that Ali changed the circuit configuration in the PSpice file. Was this the only way he could make it run in a similar way to the Multisim version? Or was he just experimenting?

Also, someone early in the discussion said that it didn't work in LT Spice. So I am wondering if there is some peculiarity in Multisim that allows this circuit to work?

If Ali would be so kind as to upload a working ORCAD/PSpice file with the same circuit as the Multisim, then we'll know for certain.

.99

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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #136 on: February 10, 2012, 12:45:57 PM »
That's a possibility I hadn't thought of. I've never adjusted the global temperature in my sims, but  the default setting in PSpice is 27C.

The strange thing to me is that Ali changed the circuit configuration in the PSpice file. Was this the only way he could make it run in a similar way to the Multisim version? Or was he just experimenting?

Also, someone early in the discussion said that it didn't work in LT Spice. So I am wondering if there is some peculiarity in Multisim that allows this circuit to work?

If Ali would be so kind as to upload a working ORCAD/PSpice file with the same circuit as the Multisim, then we'll know for certain.

.99
i wasn't sure of it myself but i thought i had remembered seeing such params when looking at some of the source for pspice. i thought there was a temp setting for each component also? base setting or was it max operating temp? something like that... you're far more experienced with sims than i, so i thought i would fly it by you and see what you thought.

300K is 26.85C :)
i'd swear the source showed kelvin, but from what you are saying i'm guessing where you change the setting, the user definable field is in celsius? strange, i wonder why they did that?

Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #137 on: February 10, 2012, 02:14:57 PM »
Yeah, you bet.

You can change the temperature of each component, and even perform temperature sweeps.

Celsius is easier to get a handle on I'd guess; after all, our multi-meters do measure in Celsius.

.99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #137 on: February 10, 2012, 02:14:57 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #138 on: February 10, 2012, 06:02:49 PM »
@forest
I just posted my findings, what is wrong with that? I really hope that in real life the circuit works like claimed by Ali.


@poynt99
I forgot to mention that if I do that, everithing miracolously works  8)



Dann


Fix circuit. it won't work with square wave generator, I tried also. It will work with pulsing power source element .
I tried also various simulation extensions and it is very unstable but I sucessfully charged capacitor without depleting oscillations too much and it looks very funny when you fast discharge that capacitor. It has to be done very quickly to dampen only halp amplitude of oscillations and then by a miracle those spikes are jumping up and down like accomodating to something and then after 1 or 2 seconds again it become stable amplitude.

Offline madddann

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #139 on: February 10, 2012, 09:39:56 PM »

Fix circuit. it won't work with square wave generator, I tried also. It will work with pulsing power source element .
I tried also various simulation extensions and it is very unstable but I sucessfully charged capacitor without depleting oscillations too much and it looks very funny when you fast discharge that capacitor. It has to be done very quickly to dampen only halp amplitude of oscillations and then by a miracle those spikes are jumping up and down like accomodating to something and then after 1 or 2 seconds again it become stable amplitude.

If I copy paste my circuit (built from scratch) to the Ali 1.2 platform it works (overunity) as it is. The generator does not make any difference - it's output is the same. See? I attached the picture and the file.


Dann

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #139 on: February 10, 2012, 09:39:56 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #140 on: February 10, 2012, 10:23:47 PM »
Hi Dann,

Thanks for the simulations.  Would like you to ask when have some time, please use a third wattmeter to measure the power taken from (or to?) the capacitor C2.  The current input of the wattmeter would be inserted in series with the upper pin of C2 and the voltage input of the wattmeter would be in parallel with C2.

 We might see some further info this way,  hopefully.

Thanks Gyula

Offline Mannix

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #141 on: February 10, 2012, 11:49:16 PM »
If I copy paste my circuit (built from scratch) to the Ali 1.2 platform it works (overunity) as it is. The generator does not make any difference - it's output is the same. See? I attached the picture and the file.


Dann

So you already know that there is a paramater different in your simulation conditions it took 3 minutes to prove that  ..do you know which one ?

Or is this a guessing game for us ?

Of course its rational that this circuit shoud not  work in reality.   even so it is something to shoot for

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #141 on: February 10, 2012, 11:49:16 PM »
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Offline Khwartz

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #142 on: February 11, 2012, 06:55:45 PM »
If I copy paste my circuit (built from scratch) to the Ali 1.2 platform it works (overunity) as it is. The generator does not make any difference - it's output is the same. See? I attached the picture and the file.
Dann
to all:
How that changes could explain the theoretical OU here, while same components in the other set didn't give OU please?
Cheers.

Offline madddann

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #143 on: February 11, 2012, 11:29:13 PM »
Hi guys!
Today i placed the power meter for C2 and found out that at first it shows -60W but then gradualy falls to zero and floats few watts up and down.
Then i placed two power meters for C1 and L1 and found out that C1 power floats a few watts up and down but the L1 power is at constat -60W - interesting huh? So there you have the "impossible" power source.

Below I attached the two xspice log files so you can see the settings of the working and the non working version of the circuit. I fiddled with the global and other settings but had no luck and i could not find out where all of those settings are located and I dont understand what some of the settings mean, so this is for those of you more familiar with spice.

Now that everithing is more clear, I'll just wait for Ali to upload his video - my last hope that the circuit works.

edited: ...oh i see i left a ground and a wire there in the second pic, but the simulation is correct...
Dann

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #143 on: February 11, 2012, 11:29:13 PM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #144 on: February 12, 2012, 06:35:18 PM »
dann,

I see many differences in the settings. It appears that you left all the settings as default or automatic, while Ali changed a number of them.

I suspect that Ali can't get it to work in PSpice, which is why he has not posted the files. But I think it is a moot issue anyway, since the one PSpice file he did upload (a different configuration than above) did NOT show overunity at all.

I suspect the actual problem here is either in interpreting or using the power meters in Multisim. Power can not be coming from "nowhere".

.99

Offline forest

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #145 on: February 12, 2012, 08:43:15 PM »
There is some simulation program called Qucs under linux. Do you know how to set mosfet parameters to replicate exactly IRF260 ?

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #145 on: February 12, 2012, 08:43:15 PM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #146 on: February 12, 2012, 09:07:45 PM »
If it does not already have a model for the IRFP260, then you can look at the SPICE model for it and change the parameters for your "default" MOSFET model in Qucs.
 
 I have attached the PSpice model.
 
 .99
 
 

Offline forest

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #147 on: February 12, 2012, 09:19:26 PM »
If it does not already have a model for the IRFP260, then you can look at the SPICE model for it and change the parameters for your "default" MOSFET model in Qucs.
 
 I have attached the PSpice model.
 
 .99


Thank you. I have no idea how to set some of them because in qucs they have single value while in Spice some of them have a set of values like : RS 8 3 0.026764
If  you can help me fix it I may run this circuit under qucs for an hour or so. preliminary test show 5 seconds no diminuition of oscillation, but that's not a proof of course


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quite_Universal_Circuit_Simulator

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #148 on: February 12, 2012, 11:09:59 PM »

Thank you. I have no idea how to set some of them because in qucs they have single value while in Spice some of them have a set of values like : RS 8 3 0.026764
If  you can help me fix it I may run this circuit under qucs for an hour or so. preliminary test show 5 seconds no diminuition of oscillation, but that's not a proof of course


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quite_Universal_Circuit_Simulator

Forest:

In this line "RS 8 3 0.026764" the first two numbers 8 and 3 just after the component name (RS) refer to connection points in the schematic of a Spice circuit.  So those numbers are NOT a set of values.  The real value is only  0.026764 for RS.  So if you simply omit the two numbers just after the components names your simulator would probably be happy.

Offline duff

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Re: Ghazanfar Ali Generator - Utlilizing trapped energy
« Reply #149 on: February 13, 2012, 07:20:46 AM »
 Here is my first test of the AliGen.

 http://youtu.be/zI9xTK-hXO4

 Component differences as noted in the video:
 1. I am using IRFP260MPBF instead of the IRFP260.
 2. A 17.4uF cap instead of the 18uF
 3. I've added a FEP26JT diode pair as snubbers across the source/drain.
 4. A 1mH choke is in series with the sig gen ground.

 The Inductor was initially set to 377uH and then slightly tuned so that the LC circuit was resonant at 2KHz.

 In my setup the peaks are located at the leading edge of the square wave pulses , whereas in Ali's sims the peaks are located at the trailing edge. I find this strange. I don't know what has caused it, unless perhaps the choke has caused the shift - I'll have to check it.
 

 

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