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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Mystmot on January 26, 2012, 06:59:19 PM

Title: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: Mystmot on January 26, 2012, 06:59:19 PM
Hello.
I have been wondering, it has been stated all over that a permanent magnet is not a source of energy.
I have attached two sketches which will clarify my question properly.

To make this as simple as possible...
On the first picture, an object under the influence of gravity has made a motion and to simplify the total amount of energy that the object has had interaction with is 4 J.
On the second picture, that same object, under the influence of magnetic force, for the same motion, totals 5 J.

Where is this 1 J coming from??

Could anyone please explain to me where I am wrong.
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: Qwert on January 26, 2012, 11:56:37 PM
You are right. Only, to take apart those two objects, you must use additional force/energy. And this additional force also will be much greater for magnets, comparing gravity. Also, magnets' field of force works at comparatively shorter distances.
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: dxer_87 on April 30, 2012, 07:51:57 PM
This is my first post here, so hi everybody, I'm Przemek from Poland and from 2 years time I'm concerned in overunity devices, now sure it is possible for them to work, especially without scientific description. They simply work, so we should build them making good solutions. I'm asking too: why not the magnet?

The magnet has its magnetic potential energy because it was magnetise in produce time - it's just the same process like giving the ball it's potential energy that it was taken on the roof. But, what's important: only the Earth has it's gravity interaction that is visible, because of it's size and mass. The same is about magnet and an iron ball, only the magnet has it's visible potential energy that isn't lost by contacting with metal. in the 1st picture the ball loose it's potential energy to half of the previous one. The permanent magnet doesn't loose it's potential energy and it's still 2J, so comparing behaviour of a permanent magnet to earth gravity is lacking in this way. Only comparing gravity objects of a high mass make sense with magnets.

Going further: if someone would use magnetic force of a permanent magnet repeatidly without magnetic potential energy lost (it's said it can be achieved after some 50 years of work such a device). The Earth is cycling around the Sun because of gravity potential energy too and no one see it's perpetual motion. But yes, and I think it would take a long time to 'discharge' potential gravity energy of Earth and Sun to even make a longer distance between them. The same is about permanent magnet. If I'm wrong, correct me, because I don't believe that the unknown aether is the source of OU in Minato like generator+motor systems on one shaft.

If I'm right there would be no possibility to build an OU rotating device with coils instead of magnets, but the energy wouldn't come from space like in Tesla coil.

Przemek

You should rather ask: If I teach you to throw a ball from the roof, saying it will fall, and teach you that anything that you will throw will fall, then that would be a good example that the Earth have the right potential energy to attract anything that is surrounding it and from the start of its existence it is unexhaustible (not like a magnet that will fail after half of century).
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: CompuTutor on May 01, 2012, 08:59:56 AM
Question:
"Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?"

Answer:
"Because we (still) don't know enough to do it like the ancients (already) did"
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: dxer_87 on May 01, 2012, 05:25:44 PM
Hi!

Yes, that's the fact that we don't know the features of space, especially the interactions that happens in it. I was taught the magnetic interaction is strange because from Maxwell's equation we know that there is no particle that is conveying the interaction of magnetism, the same is about gravity, there is no graviton (yet experimentally found). So things get complicated. About permanent magnet we know that inside its structure there are magnetic domains that create forces, which can only be level-headed approaching the same magnet different pole outside of it, and anybody can see the lines of forces outside a magnet when small pieces of metal are around and the forces come from a magnet. And because the magnetic field that happens not only outside a magnet but also inside of it, that is obtained by the so called magnetic domain of crystal structure, I want to say that even if don't know where comes from the interaction, the magnetic field around a magnet is a feature of the magnet! Probably many things happen to space near to a magnet, but we don't know exactly what.

The unification theories about interactions try to describe magnetic, electric and gravity as one, but I think that we can't simply look that deep to structure of space and mattery.

What we discuss has nothing to working perpetuum mobiles that some of us are building and one thing is sure, if we get to deep in calculations and explanations, we would be as foolish as those who says overunity is for freaks - those who want to describe what they actually see with naked eyes with old physics apparatus that we use nowadays.

I think we can discuss on a forum like this one, but anyone must be careful, because in the net there is so much trash about overunity and magnet motors, that it is very sad for common people we live in such a lied world. Especially You, people of America have problems with your government because they try to fool you with ufo like story from '40s. And it's sad that many people believe in aliens and go crazy and know nothing about antigravity engine that your gover tried to develop. But I believe that You as a society can change the whole world, thanks God your army gave us the net that we can communicate without barriers.

Be patient. Together we can change more.
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: dxer_87 on May 01, 2012, 05:40:13 PM
If you look into formulas describing magnetic, electric or a gravity field you can see, that the force and potential energy of a little charge or mass is getting lower linear or with square of distance between the object and the little mass. I think this was apriori for God when he created physics that interaction works only in a restricted area.

For those who has created working OU device: If something is possible in cosmos, only God knows it for sure, not the overstudied professors ;)
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 01, 2012, 05:51:31 PM
I think this was apriori for God when he created physics that interaction works only in a restricted area.

For those who has created working OU device: If something is possible in cosmos, only God knows it for sure, not the overstudied professors ;)
which god? humanity has created hundreds... literally.

"isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - douglas adams
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: dxer_87 on May 01, 2012, 07:07:08 PM
This is not a forum to discuss either exist a mind higher then we are or not, I just wanted to say that if we don't know every principle of realism like overunity is, we shouldn't rely on professors who are against any new thinking (though most of people believe in higher minds, even the most primitive in their culture). On the bottom line I want to add that for some it is so obvious they just see those fairies in every little plant in the garden and I am one of them. Greetz for all non-believers - the physics is same for us!

Przemek

PS. I think nowadays much more people believe in spirits than in perpetuum mobile! So tell me, who is greater freak :D ? Maybe I because I believe in and touched both (laugh).
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: Gwandau on May 02, 2012, 12:35:23 AM
microcontroller,
 
your post applying occam's razor is adressing the mystery of magnetism in an excellent way,
but unfortunately there seems to be no one here besides me who are able to appreciate the scope
of what you were conveying.
 
But you nailed it, it's all about space itself.
 
If we want to go further we inevitably will find ourselves in the domain of guesses.
But guesses may sometimes hide the seed to a deeper understanding, giving us the means to execute our ideas
in real experiments.
 
I have come across an intriguing and almost unknown theory that implies that neither magnetism nor gravity are forces,
but instead they are two kinds of dynamic responses to the condition of field(space).
 
The theory suggests magnets are not themselves the very origin of their attractive and repulsive qualities,
but merely acting as a sort of lens refracting the underlying field, where the appearance of attraction and repulsion
is caused by a decrease or increase of space created between the poles of the magnets.
 

Thus the directional differentials in the electron spin found in the crystal lattice of a magnet are not the source
of the magnetism, but merely acting as the inductive parameters needed to execute the deviation of space geometry.
 
According to this theory, magnets can be used to create anti gravity of the same type as the extraterrestial crafts
are using when navigating within gravity fields.
 
This theory, the Unity theory, by the Canadian close encounter victim David Barclay, describes a way of looking at
our reality that opposes most of what we have learned. He emphasizes that our complete kit of concepts are misunderstood,
because we have mistaken the effects for the cause. Even our concept of energy is at fault according to David Barclay.
 
I have come to know David quite well by now, and he is a warmhearted man with great integrity who just recently,
after more than forty years of  silence, finally have exposed the origin of his theory.
 
Since his theory is centered around a specific four tier ring array of magnets that he was shown and which he claims is
the basic structure of the extraterrestrial drive, I feel that his theory may be of interest to anyone interested in magnetism.
 
To make his theory more easily understood, I have made an in depth introduction in the antigravity.org forum:
 
http://www.gravitycontrol.org/forum/index.php?topic=328.0 (http://www.gravitycontrol.org/forum/index.php?topic=328.0)
 
If you are open minded and interested in an altogether different outlook, you will enjoy the Unity concept.
 

Gwandau
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: The Observer on May 02, 2012, 05:43:08 AM
A permanent Magnet is a source of energy !

Example...

A common speaker can demonstrate this, by using the same signal and exchanging magnets.

     1. Take away the Magnet in a common Speaker and you will hear NO SOUND.

     2. Put a Weak Magnet into the system and you will a QUIET SOUND.

     3. Put a Stronger Magnet than #2 into the system and you will hear a LOUDER SOUND.

     4. Put a Stronger Magnet than #3 into the system and you will hear an EVEN LOUDER SOUND.

The output energy of the Speaker is in direct relation to the strength of the Magnet.

Best Regards,
                     The Observer
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: The Observer on May 02, 2012, 07:02:40 AM
Micro,


Try making a speaker without the use of Ferros ( the magnet and the core that is inside the coil )
and you will find the actual energy it takes to make the sound.


    1. Replace the magnet with an air coil.
    2. Take the core out of the coil that drives the diaphragm.

By adding ferromagnetic substances to the mix ( the magnet and the core inside of the coil ),
you increase the intensity of the sound for the same signal.

The higher the Magnetic Permeability of the ferromagnetic substances added... the louder the sound is going to be.
The energy comes from moving unpaired electrons in the Ferromagnetic Substances that act as a permanently energized coil.

See diagram below to understand this.

Best Regards,
                     The Observer
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: dxer_87 on May 02, 2012, 09:53:41 AM
The so called strength of a magnet is just the term describing how much magnetic potential energy it actually has. If you look into a physics literature, you will see that any material for magnet is described with the energy density parameter. The neodymium one has the greatest values. Even if this potential magnetic energy isn't repeatedly used in device like overunity magnet generators, it surely exist and without this energy none of speaker or magnet motor would work. The problem is rather how it is possible to magnetize once a magnet (giving it some energy in this process) and not discharging it with typical use for years. And this is connected with the crystal structure. But now we have neodymium magnets with their great energy density and most of machines with overunity are possible to create in practice. The old pulverized magnets hasn't this amount of potential energy. If you'll read about SEG, there is clearly suggested that the used permanent magnets need to be very strong - hard to obtain in '1950s. I see that some of You are believing in theories that the magnetism as interaction is something more than spin of electron and it is connected with perturbations of space. I think it's a good way for future understanding and maybe such thinking will enclose another good unification theory of interactions.

Maybe in a speaker all the energy comes from amplifier as electricity, only the magnet flux allows the coil with the membrane to change this energy into movement with greater efficiency than only the coil. I know it is possible without the magnet inside, because once I connect a wire resistor into amplifier output and it begans to play (weird, but really happens :).
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: Rafael Ti on May 02, 2012, 10:57:05 AM
More field lines means a stronger field which means more dragging effect thus more conversion between electricity comming from the amp into kinetic motion, which in turn moves the voice coil and  the diaphragm.
The amount of field lines cutting the voicecoil has a direct relationship to the produced kinetic movement and this has got nothing to do with the magnet supplying energy the energy comes from the amplifier.
Is there anything which can limit the amount of field lines connected to the voicecoil?
Title: Re: Why is a permanent magnet not a source of energy?
Post by: dxer_87 on May 02, 2012, 07:48:01 PM
Good to know something new microcontroller, thx. First look at any magnet motor really gives you feeling the energy is drawn from magnets. For example in Kapanadze where there's nothing unusual except for the grounding it is easier to see that the energy is really from the unknown source. I think that simply a century or two must remain to describe better radiant energy, zero point energy and other theoritically existing things which is probably just the unknown space, even Albert. E. was claiming that space is something more than <<empty space>>. We now only see particles like electrons, bozons etc. and who knows what is in the depth (Feynmann stayed there is much 'in the depth'). Overunity devices works and I think that governments if they want or not need to create a institute to work with the topic not only in secret maying in vision the Star Wars.

I was today playing with my old magnets trying to discover something new - a pulse motor and I need to point I love to play with magnets even if nothing special is happening :D Magnets rules!