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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: samertje on January 22, 2012, 04:48:58 PM

Title: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: samertje on January 22, 2012, 04:48:58 PM
Hey everyone,

I made this video and got comments on the PESwiki and other forums, many shouting that it's a RF circuit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF9fl4_eMiY

I made this one explaining why we don't think it's RF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB4V29mZlFk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Can you guys help us out here?

Cheers!
Sam
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 23, 2012, 03:23:22 AM
My replication is way messy, and having a hard time getting good video of it, but....
I have reduced the voltage (the 9v I'm using is 8.83v).  I can definatly say that this is a very sensitive thing to play with, and attaching the wrong sort of ground at the wrong place kills the thing quick.
 
With the higher voltage to start with, and a bad antenna connection, the LEDs light basically from the source wire and dim as the circuit is moved away.
 
With the lower voltage at the start, and a couple sheets of aluminum chained for fun, the LEDs are brighter at the end and dimmer at the start where the oscillator feed is.  If I connect my o-scope's probe ground to an aluminum plate also, then a few of the LEDs (every other one, with the one closest to the 'grounded' plate brightest) are bright, and the others are dim, to the point they are almost off at the source.
 
Crazy stuff.
 
I've tried to measure a few places with a few things, I basically made an AVPlug with a 1M resister to try and measure the voltage across that, but as soon as I ground either side of that plug it kills the whole thing.
 
I do have a 1ohm resistor inline between the power source and the oscillator circuit with a scope probe across that - supposedly that's the current draw from the power source, it oscillates pretty well, and looks like pretty well a sum of 0 current to me; but.... oh, right so when the circuit is running (best to remove the high ohm resistor from the transistor base during operation, it's sorta the starter jolt, like a car's starter solonoid....)  So anyhow I mentioned the osciollation visible on the power source 1ohm resistor inline with one side (negative I think), when I kill it that goes to a flatline.
 
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: madddann on January 23, 2012, 04:21:40 AM
@samertje

Hi! can you please give the specifications for the two coils - wire gauge and how many turns or lenght?


Dann
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 23, 2012, 09:07:29 AM
I made mine using  http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/coil_calc.aspx (http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/coil_calc.aspx)
 
I used a couple empty electical tape spools that were 36mm in diamter, and 10 turns on one makes the smaller and 24 on the other, and I used 24gague wire, but wire gauge isn't a factor in the calculator.
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: samertje on January 23, 2012, 01:53:41 PM
@samertje

Hi! can you please give the specifications for the two coils - wire gauge and how many turns or lenght?


Dann

in the first video we used two passive inductors, in the second video we used a little pancake coil 22 uH, but it also works with good piece of wire or any induction around 20 - 30 uH, I'm not sure, I'd love for people to experiment on that!

Tesla used pancake coils and the effects of a pancake coil are noticeable here by holding the load on top of the middle..
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: samertje on January 23, 2012, 01:56:25 PM
My replication is way messy, and having a hard time getting good video of it, but....
I have reduced the voltage (the 9v I'm using is 8.83v).  I can definatly say that this is a very sensitive thing to play with, and attaching the wrong sort of ground at the wrong place kills the thing quick.
 
With the higher voltage to start with, and a bad antenna connection, the LEDs light basically from the source wire and dim as the circuit is moved away.
 
With the lower voltage at the start, and a couple sheets of aluminum chained for fun, the LEDs are brighter at the end and dimmer at the start where the oscillator feed is.  If I connect my o-scope's probe ground to an aluminum plate also, then a few of the LEDs (every other one, with the one closest to the 'grounded' plate brightest) are bright, and the others are dim, to the point they are almost off at the source.
 
Crazy stuff.
 
I've tried to measure a few places with a few things, I basically made an AVPlug with a 1M resister to try and measure the voltage across that, but as soon as I ground either side of that plug it kills the whole thing.
 
I do have a 1ohm resistor inline between the power source and the oscillator circuit with a scope probe across that - supposedly that's the current draw from the power source, it oscillates pretty well, and looks like pretty well a sum of 0 current to me; but.... oh, right so when the circuit is running (best to remove the high ohm resistor from the transistor base during operation, it's sorta the starter jolt, like a car's starter solonoid....)  So anyhow I mentioned the osciollation visible on the power source 1ohm resistor inline with one side (negative I think), when I kill it that goes to a flatline.

NICE! weird hey? Do you think it's oscillating and giving of radio?
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 23, 2012, 05:02:42 PM
Well... It's an oscillator at a frequency range that includes RF.  On the scope I get signal spikes at 4Mhz 8Mhz 12... 20 is strongest, 24, .... so yes, but it's in the shortwave bands (this radio I have has shortwave2 which goes up to 22mhz, but I think it doesn't receive there).  I did have a sports channel from san francisco I was hearing (I'm in las vegas), and there was a background squeel... as I would move around the plates and stuff I have attached I could adjust the frequency, so it is otuputting at milliwatts level I'm sure. 
 
But from what I can tell an AM transmitter is just an oscillator with a single wire that is the antenna, then all we are building on is inline with the antenna.   (http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/easy-ten/easy-ten.htm (http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/easy-ten/easy-ten.htm)   https://www.google.com/search?q=am+transmitter&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&prmd=imvnsb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=rIQdT62qDIPKiQLTpoW_Ag&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CD0Q_AUoAQ&biw=1517&bih=1031#hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=simple+am+transmitter&pbx=1&oq=simple+am+transmitter&aq=f&aqi=g2g-S2g-mS2&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2693l3528l0l3781l7l7l0l0l0l4l202l1048l0.6.1l7l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=6b11d7b929de8af5&biw=1517&bih=1031 (https://www.google.com/search?q=am+transmitter&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&prmd=imvnsb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=rIQdT62qDIPKiQLTpoW_Ag&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CD0Q_AUoAQ&biw=1517&bih=1031#hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=simple+am+transmitter&pbx=1&oq=simple+am+transmitter&aq=f&aqi=g2g-S2g-mS2&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2693l3528l0l3781l7l7l0l0l0l4l202l1048l0.6.1l7l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=6b11d7b929de8af5&biw=1517&bih=1031) )
 
Also, it looks like the smaller coil and the large cap shunted across the +/- rails look more like a DC power filter, but a battery is pretty stable, so I removed those and didn't see any change in the circuit behavior.  I'm also putting a momentary push switch on the high ohm resistor to the transistor base, since I just need to tickle it to get it to go. 
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 23, 2012, 05:26:13 PM
The scope top line is a FFT math on the second wave, the spikes are about every 4Mhz.  0 is at the left of the scope.  Added my messy circuit running without the other coil/cap.  (the black wire at the top from the left power rail into the circuit is where those would have been.    Output is at (34)... caps at bottom are parallel across battery, they last for a few seconds, the circuit oscillates for a long time below the level of making any light.  Oh the tickler at (17) next to the black wire is layin there unattached.  The flash drowned out the red leds.
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 24, 2012, 03:30:01 AM
Hmm I was misinterpreting or something.  I decided to work on bypassing other various parts of the circuit, and removing the other coil removed the sub harmonics, and it looks like I have a 20mhz oscillator specifically with the transisitor, the larger coil provoides like 1/5th? harmonics.   So I put back in the front coil and the oscillation was more intensense on the scope and the LEDs were brighter, so I've put it all back to 'stock' (other than 85uf caps since I couldn't find the 100's).
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 24, 2012, 04:37:25 AM
Having a great deal of fun experimenting with this.  So I had those caps in parallel with the battery, which was all well and good, but I also had a 1ohm resistor inline on the + power rail.  I removed the scope and everything died.  And it wouldn't start, and it was very frustrating.  So I worked to go backwards to get the battery itself connected, and it wouldn't start (I should say it probably did start, but was operating too low to drive any light from the LEDs).  So I eventually tracked it back that this circuit works good with a single 9V, if you attach a ground to the positive (or negative) side of the battery; although the LEDs light brighter when attached to the + side.


and it doesn't have to be the real ground, it can be the same ground that the antenna goes to... but then it causes the LEDs on one side of the diode circles to light brighter.


So my rhetorical question today is 'why does adding a ground to a battery powered circuit, ON the battery terminals directly, make any difference?'  (correction, putting it on the terminals works, but my batter is connected to the expirament board with a clip lead on both sides, and it's better to put the ground on the positive rail on the board. )
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 27, 2012, 12:09:42 PM
Wound some pancake coils.  Tried driving them with signal generator, and got failure.  Tried this quantum resonator and then there was happiness.   I don't know what radio power transfer works like, I know that inductive transfer doesn't work if the coils are perpendicular, but using a peice of wood, I lifted the primary pancake (3/8" copper pipe) and it was vertical to its secondary and the light was just as bright.  The pancakes I wound I used 14 guage (really 15-17, but sold as 14) wire, and there's 20 turns, which was about 142 grams of copper (I matched the coils by weight not windings so much; so the primary coil is also the same weight of copper as the copper in the secondary.
from the quantum resonator a white wire goes out, and goes into the primary of the red pancake.  then the ground side of the secondary runs into a green wire, that runs into an extension cord that goes across the floor to the other room, to the green pancake coil's secondary coil.  Then I have attached on the receiver(green) pancake's primary an AVplug with an LED, and a connection from there that dangles to the ground. 
I also have the ground connected on the +side of the power rail to the resonator, which gives a better connection to the remote; I have to touch the remote ground otherwise physically.
 
The last shot with red circles is the receiver in the other room, and the ground cable.
 
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: Magnethos on January 27, 2012, 02:35:53 PM
This works too with the Avramenko plug? I mean, use the AV plug to rectify the longitudinal waves sent in the single-wire.
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 27, 2012, 04:35:27 PM
that's what the LED circuits on the board are... and that's what's at the receiving end.  http://pesn.com/2012/01/18/9602015_Quantum_Resonant_Gyrator_Embodies_Simple_Tesla_Technology/ (http://pesn.com/2012/01/18/9602015_Quantum_Resonant_Gyrator_Embodies_Simple_Tesla_Technology/) ; well... mostly alone, have to attach a virtual ground (antenna/plate) to one side of the plug also.
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: xee2 on January 28, 2012, 01:41:33 AM

@ samertje


The "The Quantum Resonant Gyrator" is not a gyrator and does not produce scalar waves. Why say this is "Quantum resonant"?  Do you even know what qauntum resonant means?  It is just an oscillator. Any DC amp meter will read zero amps when fed high frequency AC current. The needle can not go back and forth fast enough to keep up with the changes in current polarity. The amp meter you used does not show that there is no current flow, it only shows that there is no DC current.  There is AC current flow, but a DC amp meter is unable to show this.


Here is a simple one wire circuit. More info at >>> xee2vids's Channel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/xee2vids#p/u/0/z8cb1G10AEw)
It does not work as good as yours (LED is not as bright).
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on January 28, 2012, 07:39:59 AM
So, what is a good scalar wave test?  Put it in the microwave? do I include the one wire to it?  Or is it supposed to entirely work isolated?  It appears that what I have here is still radio.    ... well the resonator produces an radio frequency oscillation on the primary pancake, that's picked up by the secondary, which is then shuttled along to the remote secondary etc... it works a little worse to make it a complete circuit, but it does still work to run two wires between the secondaries of the pancake coils.

And what makes the quanta of your oscillator any better than the other resonator, xee2?
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: xee2 on January 28, 2012, 08:37:23 AM
And what makes the quanta of your oscillator any better than the other resonator, xee2?


It is not better. But it may be easier to build. Pancake coils seem to make very good one wire circuits. This is one by jiffycoil  >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEQdsB9G0ek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEQdsB9G0ek)


Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: ThePromisedplanet on January 28, 2012, 10:37:16 PM
Hi Everybody Thanks for all your reactions  :)0(
I me just now on-line at home ,just moved in here so..
I will now reveal the missing part in the circuit -> it's a magnetron
magnet. If you use 2 x 22uH ferrite coils as in the circuit and mount these on each side
of the transistor. The folded lead distance of the coil´s I use is : 2cm.
Brightness in led in primary circuit 2 x parallel hyperbrigth green LED's
and (5x2)= 10 LED at the end of my one wire, are easily modulated with the magnet
when I move the magnet in a distance of ± 8 cm from the transistor and coils . the transistor is in the hole
current goes up from 4 mA to 18 mA, transistor is at room temperature...
Here you clearly see the gyrator /: B. D. H. Tellegen do its thing.
Video´s soon demonstrating this. All the best §
Title: HELP please: Safe One Wire energy transfer
Post by: d3x0r on January 29, 2012, 09:49:43 AM


How do I do more useful things with this?


I have 12V battery powering this now.  Off of the output wire, I've run that to pancake coils, and off of the receiving secondary, I attached an AV plug, cause this should be one of the more 'dense aethereal points' ... and it is; I was reading 24V off the ends of the diodes, that's not what I'm getting now though; but it did appear to have good voltage.  So really I'm trying to put an AV plug with a capacitor across it, and then one side to a spark gap, to a coil parallel with a cap, back to the other side.  But what I get is that I can probe with a LED AVPlug, and see power.  BOth sides of the spark gap have signal, so I think the diodes aren't doing a very good job of recitifying, since it shouldn't have an AC pulse enough to like the LED?



Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: CuriousChris on January 29, 2012, 12:12:39 PM
Fun but its still an rf oscillator.

The last test you do proves it. The radio picks up the noise and when you hold the LED's the frequency changes. as it should. the LED's are part of your transmitter by touching them you become part of the transmitter. The magnet is also a big chunk of metal so of course its going to effect the resonant frequency of such a badly shielded experiment. I hope none of your neighbours has a pacemaker you may have given them a cardiac arrest.

Welcome to the world of Radio.


8 Reasons why this is not RF:
1. The signals on both sides are locked (audio over one wire tested)
What does this even mean? the test you performed showed the radiated energy changed by introducing your body into the cct

2. Wireless transmission shows 'radiant' properties
therefore its radio (rf)

3. Same power after long wire
The length of the wire changes the frequency and efficiency, but its still RF

4. Via water after a distance (weak)
all impure water is conductive notice how you have to 'complete the cct' by touching the short wire? you are a part of the cct.
What was this test supposed to prove?

5. Wireless after distance (weak)
Its RF! DC would NOT be picked up by a radio at any distance

6. JAMS all (short wave) frequencies!!
Yeah because its RF! and very very noisy RF, hence the dead neighbour with the pacemaker (the cct generates many different frequencies [harmonics] due to its poor construction)

7. Transistor is not hot
So what. it means its umm not hot.

8. SUPER MODE: LEDs shine brighter after one wire, than LEDs in series with the batteries! http://samertje.info/QRG/SMODE.jpg (http://samertje.info/QRG/SMODE.jpg)
meaningless test. RF is AC which means the LEDs are turned on and off rapidly, too fast for the eye to see but it can mean the LEDs look brighter while consuming less current.

The "proofs" above actually mean very little. As others have done hook up a Cro you'll see whats really going on. A moving needle meter cannot detect RF as the needle averages the signal out. That can be ANY VALUE below the true current draw depending on the DUTY CYCLE of the signal. I assume in the later video the duty cycle was not 50/50 and that's why it showed a current.

My breakdown above is a quick overview after a quick scan of your video's if I have missed something I am sorry. but nothing will change the fact that the guys from Peswiki and other forums are correct. ITS RF!


what happens when you remove the short wire, and dont touch the LED's with your fingers? There should be almost no current flow and the LEDs should not light or only very dimly.

CC


P.S. Most things Tesla did was about AC or RF He was fascinated by and had extreme insight into the power of resonance. that's how he did the things he did (including shaking a building).

Damn he was soo clever :)
Title: Re: Safe One Wire energy transfer by Ton Kuiper: Quantum Resonant Gyrator
Post by: d3x0r on February 05, 2012, 04:37:35 PM
I took a break and worked on some joule theives following the 101 thread.  That's another story...
I tried to take my joule theif and power my resononant oscillator, didn't have a lot of luck getting good RF effects from my joule theif alone.... I thought I had it working, but it was reverse lighting up my LEDs bypassing the resonanator part.... think the oscillator is a low logic thing and the joule theif is a high logic thing or something... but anyhow.  Having blown up a few transistors in my joule theif testing, I thought I might have blown this one... okay but anyhow, I went back to just this circuit.  I've spent the last 4 hours trying to get it to work.  It would NOT work and this was very frustrating since when I first started it kicked off right away.  I replaced caps, diodes, the transistor twice, everything except the coils which I have a strong beleif that they are the most in spec part I was using other than the transistor. 
 
I still can't get it to start on its own, but I took a long coil, pump 4.1Mhz through it, touch it with my hand in a certain spot at a certain frequency and can kick start the oscillator.  I can then remove the signal from the coil, and remove the coil and the circuit continues to run.  I can then remove the starter meg-ohm resistor, and it continues.  Hoooked up my pancakes, and got no power at the far end, but took and AV plug and touched the first primary, touched along the secondary, and its output, then got a signal and which then transferred to the other end... something like chasing a bump under a rug.  I'm going to make a video of the 'hoops I have to jump through' to start this.
 
Ya, this one didn't demonstarte just touching the coil to get it to start, had to tickle its start wire too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHTPv6pxka8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHTPv6pxka8)