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Author Topic: Any proof?  (Read 83843 times)

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2012, 12:11:22 AM »
So, i did a bit of searching. I'll have to check for those BMP+CSV, but my HW-colleague just obtained new oscilloscope/analyzer which seems to have these functions (it will take at least a week before I can return to my job-place/room).

P=U*I no doubt, but Joule Thief produces high spikes, right? Oscilloscope/analyzer has its limits as sampling frequency.
Isn't this all a problem of measurement?

Has anybody ever measured total input power (during the process of creation) and total output power
and proved, that measured total output power was greater than total input power ever put into it during the whole process?
This could be done by using three batteries, charge one, use it to start it up, recharge two empty batteries from it and the proof is done.

P.S.: Please, do not treat my reactions as "Hey, you stupid, this can never work!" but as "I appreciate your work and time, but my time is limited too and I have to do some selection first, Thank you".

You are right in quoting the battery charger.  Please go to the excellent on-line book by Patrick Kelly.  http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/
 
In Chapter 5, he described my FLEET device – even better than I could.  He already applied it to produce battery chargers. 
 
You can also read the huge Joule Thief Thread in this forum.  Many have done the battery charging operation but few have good oscilloscopes to do the Power Measurements.
 
Once you mastered the oscilloscope measurement technique, you could then build the FLEET prototypes and tune them to achieve COP >1.
 
If for any reason, your FLEET prototypes fail to achieve COP > 1, I shall help you to tune once you have the bmp and csv files.  As I mentioned, as a last resort, I could send you a tuned FLEET prototype.  The only requirement is that you disclose the detailed testing information openly on the Internet so that all can benefit.
 May you become one of the Servers of the Divine Wine

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any proof?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2012, 12:11:22 AM »

Offline firda

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 12:36:39 AM »
Thank you, I finally see that I AM in good hands.

Offline void109

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 02:39:46 AM »
Hi Firda,


Strangely, I too am a software engineer that got sucked into these forums years ago, first lurking, then posting and finally building myself.  To date, and I still lurk, I have seen no definitive proof, but there are several projects floating about that have yet to be 'debunked'.  I stopped building maybe half of a year ago, feeling a bit disillusioned.  But it's been a wonderful learning experience.


The notions presented above are one of those hopeful projects I was referring to - the data so far is compelling.  If you are replicating yourself and are new to working with electrical test equipment, as I was, be cautious when using oscilloscopes to test the circuits presented in these forums, as they often produce high frequency high voltage outputs and you can easily damage your oscilloscope.  Both of mine have rated voltages of 600 volts, so I have had to be creative with a lot of measurements.


I only posted because I saw you were going to get your hands on a scope, and I recalled destroying my first scope, and wanted to see if I could head that off for you. :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any proof?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 02:39:46 AM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2012, 03:11:06 AM »
Hi Firda,


Strangely, I too am a software engineer that got sucked into these forums years ago, first lurking, then posting and finally building myself.  To date, and I still lurk, I have seen no definitive proof, but there are several projects floating about that have yet to be 'debunked'.  I stopped building maybe half of a year ago, feeling a bit disillusioned.  But it's been a wonderful learning experience.


The notions presented above are one of those hopeful projects I was referring to - the data so far is compelling.  If you are replicating yourself and are new to working with electrical test equipment, as I was, be cautious when using oscilloscopes to test the circuits presented in these forums, as they often produce high frequency high voltage outputs and you can easily damage your oscilloscope.  Both of mine have rated voltages of 600 volts, so I have had to be creative with a lot of measurements.


I only posted because I saw you were going to get your hands on a scope, and I recalled destroying my first scope, and wanted to see if I could head that off for you.(http://www.overunity.com/file:///C:/Users/Jen/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif)

Good point.  You have to understand and protect your oscilloscope.  Do the following:
1.    Use low sensitivity initially (scope probes can be set to 10X or 1X etc.).  I used 10X at the beginning.
2.    Build the basic Joule Thief with the 2N2222 and 3 V LEDs first.  The Output Voltage should be less than 10V as shown in the AC setting of the Oscilloscope.  Do not get into the over 100V range.  You can first use a cheap multimeter to check the Output Voltage.
3.    The shape of the Output Power Curve will tell you quite a lot.  If you are close to or at some kind of resonance, you will see standing waves.  That is evidence of resonance.  For all cases of standing waves, my measurements indicated COP > 1 from the accurate average power values.
4.    Use  the high sensitivity (exposing the oscilloscope to potential harm) only after you have obtained the rough estimates. 
5.    I once got into over 1000V and burnt all electronics.  I was lucky – the measuring instrument blew an internal fuse and cost me only $50 to get it fixed.
There is much to learn and take all precautions.

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 12:42:40 PM »
Another "problem" with scope it's they're all grounded, with a frequency generator you can have short circuit.


The best to measure anything it's a differential scope, not grounded one...
But it cost much more than standard one...


I have few surprise when working with a frequencies generator, but fortunately not burned my scope (a DSO 2090 USB)...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any proof?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2012, 12:42:40 PM »
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Offline firda

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2012, 05:24:05 PM »
Thank you for your guidance, I'll see what I can do, I'll try to translate this to my HW colleagues to start some testing.
I'd like to express my feelings about it from the spiritual point of view:

Every energy transmission done with good will adds a tiny bonus, thus super-resonance could extract this bonus energy, makes sense to me ;)

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 12:27:57 AM »
Hello again, I have found a quote from TinselKoala, when talking in the Rosemary thread about Q and resonance:


Quote
Rosemary, now you need to learn what "Q" refers to in an oscillating RLC circuit. The larger the Q the longer the oscillation from a single "strike"; in other words, the lower the losses to resistance (heat) and radiation (RF) and the longer the energy stays sloshing around in the circuit. Remember my TinselKoil? Using a full H-bridge instead of the half-bridge in your circuit, and with a deliberately high Q, I am able to produce power amplification that you only dream about. By your measurement methods the TinselKoil is so far overunity that I expect the Men in Black to arrive with the suppression tools at any moment.


It tend to support the power amplification theory by high Q circuit... I still building my MRA too...
Good luck !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any proof?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 12:27:57 AM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2012, 04:31:40 AM »
Please read http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1171.msg20295#msg20295
 
This FLEET prototype is unusual in that it provides both negative average Input Power and negative average Output Power.  Negative Power means energy is going back to Source.
 
Thus both Input and Output circuits are "recharging circuits".  Both give back (Lead-out or bring-in) more energy than supplied.
 
Divine wine is tasty.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2012, 06:54:29 AM »
I tried to put all information including the set up and analysis in one xls file.
 
Please review and comment.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any proof?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2012, 06:54:29 AM »
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2012, 03:36:28 AM »
Lawrence,
Thank you for posting these data. I understand that replication is difficult due to the need for the circuit to be operating at resonant frequency. Forgive me for asking if this has already been explained, but I'm wondering if...
- it might be possible to produce prototypes with a variable resistor or variable
  capacitor to fine-tune each unit to resonance, perhaps with some kind of
  LED or neon which might indicate that the unit has achieved the lead out
  frequency. ...
Again, perhaps this has been already discussed, or maybe it is unfeasable; but I thought I'd ask...
Continued blessings on you and your work.
Bob

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2012, 03:57:39 AM »
Lawrence,
Thank you for posting these data. I understand that replication is difficult due to the need for the circuit to be operating at resonant frequency. Forgive me for asking if this has already been explained, but I'm wondering if...
- it might be possible to produce prototypes with a variable resistor or variable
  capacitor to fine-tune each unit to resonance, perhaps with some kind of
  LED or neon which might indicate that the unit has achieved the lead out
  frequency. ...
Again, perhaps this has been already discussed, or maybe it is unfeasable; but I thought I'd ask...
Continued blessings on you and your work.
Bob
Dear Bob,
If you have two oscilloscopes, the tuning is easier than you may expect.  The trick is to set both the Input and Output scales to be the same and observe the change in waveforms – especially the Output Power Curve.
You can see a large standing wave when you vary the breadboard positions, resistance, capacitance values or just changing connecting wires.
Once you get that, set your oscilloscope for maximum sensitivity to get the csv files for detailed analysis.
Sometimes you can hit on an exceptionally high COP circuit (or recharging circuit).  Most researchers then keep that confidential for commercial reasons.  They need to earn money and cannot afford to have fun all the time.
My advice is – experiment.  Resonance hunting is still an art.  Luck is important too.  But if you try hundreds or thousands of times, luck will come to you. 
Lawrence
 
*** I added the analysis for the Jan 11 prototype.  It was a slight variation compared with the Jan 16 prototype.  It has COP of 74. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 05:21:09 AM by ltseung888 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Any proof?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2012, 03:57:39 AM »
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Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2012, 10:00:26 AM »

Quote
My advice is – experiment.  Resonance hunting is still an art.  Luck is important too.  But if you try hundreds or thousands of times, luck will come to you.  Lawrence
Not only a mere resonance but a high Q resonator (high L/C and low R) to have Q > 1...

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2012, 12:38:36 AM »
High Q but low Z. Remember that impedance at a given frequency is equivalent to resistance. At resonance, Z should be at a minimum to allow maximum current flow. High Z in effect is like placing a resistor in series.


Edit : should have provided formulas... sorry


Inductive impedance = 2 * Pi * f * L


Inductive capacitance = 1 / (2 * Pi * f * C)


L is in Henries, C  is in Farads, F is in hertz


Instantaneous Voltage and amperage equations: t = time in seconds, v = voltage in volts, and i  = amperage in amps


v = L * (di/dt)     i = C * ( dv/dt)


amount of energy stored:


In the inductance: E = (L* (i squared))/2
In the capacitance: E = (C * (v squared))/2


These you might find useful.

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2012, 03:48:16 AM »
Lawrence,
Thank you for the advice and encouragement.
Bob

Offline ltseung888

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Re: Any proof?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2012, 11:26:57 PM »
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1171.msg20682#msg20682
 
It looks like Sterling Allan has found a Commercial OU product in South Africa.
 
I fully expect it to work.  I am attaching an Output vs Input Power file from the latest FLEET tests.
The average Input Power is Negative.  That is a recharging circuit.  Is it OU by itself???
 
Is that sufficient proof???

 

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