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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: gammarayburst on November 30, 2011, 04:26:24 AM

Title: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on November 30, 2011, 04:26:24 AM
http://youtu.be/LWkIvhuO4ns (http://youtu.be/LWkIvhuO4ns)
This is the link, also you can view on this site the video that shows how the bars seperate. The bars sets in a continious line would open and do work and the magnet pulling to the next closed bar set does work also. Two positive, no negative work functions.
This is proof of the very basic principle, not a practicle machine. This is true overunity.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
LaFonte Research Group
Special thanks to group members Mark and Nicolas, their efforts made this possible.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: ramset on November 30, 2011, 11:23:45 AM
Butch


Yeah , I agree........ with your skills
I see over unity in this demonstration !!   I Don't understand how you did it But ?


Thanks


You have my attention


Chet
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: powercat on November 30, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
http://youtu.be/LWkIvhuO4ns (http://youtu.be/LWkIvhuO4ns)

This is proof of the very basic principle, not a practicle machine. This is true overunity.
Are you going to post a video of a practicle  machine (Self-runner) have you made one yet ? that would be ultimate proof.
Good luck
Title: We just need a little help
Post by: gammarayburst on November 30, 2011, 04:55:28 PM
Thanks guys for the support! It is so clear in the video it is overunity. We worked so many years for this. If we can get a little funding we will build a self runner which as you see would be no problem. Mark has a shop that can build just about anything, but we need funding for materials. I just hope people will continue to see how simple and true overunity this principle is.
Thanks again for your support,
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Cloxxki on November 30, 2011, 09:04:07 PM
Very original work, I like it!


As is our job on OU.com, let's look for some possible issues.
- The pendulum may have been brought into position by the hand-powered swing. The pendulum in natural equilibrium, would pose a cost to place the stator, I'm afraid?
- The cost of the stator movements, vs. the gain.


I'd be interested to know how much work the pendulum could do, when under load, to make those mostly horizontal moves.
Of course, versus the costs of moving that stator assembly horizontally. It needs to be pinned when the arm moves towards it, and freely when posted into the next position. Now it was all friction keeping it in place, it seemed.
Title: Animation of Pseudo Solid Fanner from LaFonte Research Group
Post by: gammarayburst on December 01, 2011, 04:07:42 AM
See attached, thank you Nicolas!
Title: Need to make public clear as to purpose of test video, it's to show no cogging!
Post by: gammarayburst on December 01, 2011, 04:43:07 AM
The video is to show that the magnets do not cog when moving from the open bars to the closed bars. In fact the magnets pull to the junction and then move down the length of the closed bars with no cogging. The pendulum has no function other that a friction free way of moving the magnet. It is not a part of the system as such.
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
Title: It's so darn simple!
Post by: gammarayburst on December 01, 2011, 05:23:01 AM
See attached,
Thanks,
Butch LaFonte
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Cloxxki on December 01, 2011, 12:41:31 PM
Thanks for the elaboration, much appreciated, as are your efforts to find an OU solution.

To proove OU in such a setup may require a more convincing setup and experiment execution.
 
Please consider to use gears and ball bearing weights applied just with their mass, to get visual confirmation of what is going on.
Until someone makes a gravity wheel, weights are very reliable for operating and measuring magnetic setups. No electronic, no room for doubt or interpretation.
 
If you can convince me, you'll be really close to something practical to extract energy from. I might offer some helpful design input if I can.
Title: Turning fixture horizonal to eliminate gravity factor in testing, from Butch
Post by: gammarayburst on December 01, 2011, 03:19:01 PM
I will be asking Mark today if he can turn the pendulum fixture on it's side (horizonal) so we can run a test with the gravity factor eliminated during testing. It should make a believer out of everyone. I will post a video of the test.
Thanks everyone for your support in this.
Butch
Title: Video Of Horizonal Swing Test Results! It will make a believer out of you!!!!
Post by: gammarayburst on December 01, 2011, 09:32:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXlJWZWe1oc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXlJWZWe1oc)
See this link, it will make a believer out of ya!
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: powercat on December 01, 2011, 10:48:04 PM
I was expecting the arm to swing further from the block, it seemed like there was a weak sticky spot ?
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Hope on December 01, 2011, 11:14:54 PM
??  how long can it run?   only saw a few swings b4 it stopped???

Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 01, 2011, 11:18:54 PM
No, it's probably eddy current drag or friction in the bearings. There is no weak sticky spot. The eddy current drag can be eliminated in a production design. The bearings are new I believe and never "run in".
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 01, 2011, 11:24:18 PM
??  how long can it run?   only saw a few swings b4 it stopped???
It's not for running, it's just to show there is no cogging at the bar junction. It would need to have a long series of bars. See attached animation. Also see our many video's on Youtube at LaFonte Research.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: powercat on December 02, 2011, 12:01:35 AM
No, it's probably eddy current drag or friction in the bearings. There is no weak sticky spot. The eddy current drag can be eliminated in a production design. The bearings are new I believe and never "run in".

That may be so, but it did look like it stopped where you would hope it wouldn't.

Any chance you can slightly tilt the arm so a little bit of gravity would show the arm swinging free  and then placed the block,
we could then compare the two................. only a thought
 
Title: Special Thanks To Mark And Nicolas
Post by: gammarayburst on December 02, 2011, 12:13:35 AM
I want to thank Mark for all the work, time and money he has put into our projects over these many years. He can take a 2D drawing I send him and fabricate a machine in half a day or less. He can build anything and it's always a better design than I send him. But most of all he has stuck with us and never gave up.
Nicolas has made us countless 3D animations for so many years and never charged us. With out his animations the public would have a hard time figuring out how our designs work.
Both Mark and Nicolas have also provided very much input for concepts, design and theory of operation.
We have a great team and have worked together with ease all these years.
Thanks guys!
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 02, 2011, 12:17:11 AM
That may be so, but it did look like it stopped where you would hope it wouldn't.

Any chance you can slightly tilt the arm so a little bit of gravity would show the arm swinging free  and then placed the block,
we could then compare the two................. only a thought
The arm can't swing free unless there is another closed bars set to pull to. The magnet would grab on to the end of the closed bar set the way it is in the test. Hope I understand what you are saying.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: powercat on December 02, 2011, 12:31:22 AM
The arm can't swing free unless there is another closed bars set to pull to. The magnet would grab on to the end of the closed bar set the way it is in the test. Hope I understand what you are saying.
Butch

Quote
can't swing free unless there is another closed bars set to pull to
I don't understand why you have not shown a working device, continuous swinging or continuous rotation
surely if you have the Eureka moment nothing would stop you trying to make one,
I can only hope that you have and your just building up to it.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Cloxxki on December 02, 2011, 12:55:57 AM
I apologize for my stupidity. I see absolutely nothing new (yet). The arm is brought into place first (Mr. Hand), then a small movement of the stator makes it "jump".
Can the arm be swung out of its end position freely, back to the starting point, or is it cogged? The fact that it bounced back rather than continued a nice swing kindof answers my question, I'm afraid.


Sorry, but this is as unclear a demonstration as I've ever seen it. All the V-smots look more impressive, quite frankly.


If you have new method of using magnets without cogging, a better method of showing it is needed.
Is that little jump the part where work is to be extracted? Can the arm and stator be placed back after it, with this work extracted?


The greatest inventors are the worst at demonstrating their work, especcially in the FE field, so don't let that put you off.


I think you need a setup with fixed stator, a displaced rotor, and it then being reset at a fraction of the work that can be extracted in the little jump. An out of phase star configuration might do it, if you have what you think you have.


The build quality of your setup is just amazing. Unfortunately, a simple Lego kit could have saved you the time, money and effort for further projects.
Please verify your validy well before you build more. Your skills and time are valueble to this movement.


Good luck,
J
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 02, 2011, 02:50:36 AM
You need to study our youtube site, LaFonte Research. Also research the "fanner principle" that has used around for 100 years in industry.
It will come to you in time I promise.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 02, 2011, 02:56:43 AM
The cheapest way to demo this principle may be to have a long track and let it run down it.
Materials cost money though. Also, people would just say that we had a hidden string pulling it or something like that.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: powercat on December 02, 2011, 11:31:06 AM
Quote
Also, people would just say that we had a hidden string pulling it or something like that.
A lot of people are already not believing you've done anything special, if you have a working device people would  be interested in replicating, if you know your device works why would you care if people said it was a fraud, there would be enough successful replication within days or weeks that would make you the most famous person in history and shut the sceptics out for ever.

it just doesn't make sense that you don't have a working unit if you have a working principle.
some people will think you haven't got a working device because your principal doesn't work

I have not seen anything new to get me rushing to the shops to build a device from scratch using a design that has not been shown.

if you're not going to show a working device lets hope somebody here is brave enough to give it a go.

We could really do with more input from experienced magnet guys, maybe they will feel like making something
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Lakes on December 02, 2011, 12:31:46 PM
The cheapest way to demo this principle may be to have a long track and let it run down it.
Materials cost money though. Also, people would just say that we had a hidden string pulling it or something like that.
Butch
Visit your local scrap yard, builders yard, wood shop (for free offcuts), ask on Freecycle?
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 02, 2011, 04:55:59 PM
A lot of people are already not believing you've done anything special, if you have a working device people would  be interested in replicating, if you know your device works why would you care if people said it was a fraud, there would be enough successful replication within days or weeks that would make you the most famous person in history and shut the sceptics out for ever.

it just doesn't make sense that you don't have a working unit if you have a working principle.
some people will think you haven't got a working device because your principal doesn't work

I have not seen anything new to get me rushing to the shops to build a device from scratch using a design that has not been shown.

if you're not going to show a working device lets hope somebody here is brave enough to give it a go.

We could really do with more input from experienced magnet guys, maybe they will feel like making something
I have always believed that if someone thinks our principle works then the last thing they will do is demo it here. They will go straight to the patent office with it. But at least we are time dated here. Plus 25 years of research and development leading up to this. One thing that is for sure it works just as good as the other overunity machines to date, which are zero to my knowledge. Also about others building, well a large percentage of the list people don't build, they just comment. We will show a working device as money and time permit. We will go about it like no one has ever done it before, we will put it on full time plubic display. I don't mean the web, I mean out in public for people to see up close in person, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Butch
 
Be kind,
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Cairun on December 03, 2011, 04:01:34 AM
Amazing work! You've truly earned my respect. 
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 04, 2011, 02:21:22 AM
Amazing work! You've truly earned my respect.
Thanks so much for your support. It means everything to our group.
Butch
Title: Getting closer to a self runner design, see attached
Post by: gammarayburst on December 04, 2011, 02:31:44 AM
See attached
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 04, 2011, 10:02:35 PM
I'm sorry, but I really can't see in which part the pendulum in the video is suppose to be over unity. None of the three videos shows this clear to me. What energy was used to position the pendulum in the first place?


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: nightlife on December 05, 2011, 02:45:39 AM
 I watched the videos and they do not prove overunity using permament magnets. Magnetic fields are equal. You can not escape the oposite without using an outside energy source. Now you can however utilise the movement to the oposite by collecting energy gained from that movement and then use that energy to help overcome the oposite.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 05, 2011, 02:53:06 AM
I'm sorry, but I really can't see in which part the pendulum in the video is suppose to be over unity. None of the three videos shows this clear to me. What energy was used to position the pendulum in the first place?


Vidar
The pendulum has nothing to do with the system other than make the magnet assembly move with low friction.
The system operation has been explained countless times, it's so very, very, simple in it's operation. The video was not to show a self runner, but the first step toward a self runner.
Butch
See our Youtube site, LaFonte Research
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 05, 2011, 02:56:06 AM
Research our Youtube web site, LaFonte Research
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: nightlife on December 05, 2011, 03:17:43 AM
 Here is a way that will help you.
 Build two or more large curved sections of magnetic arrays. Wrap the each array with a coil of wire from the start to end at the 3/4 lenth of the array. Make sure a runner can enter and pass thru each one. Attach each coil to it's own cap. Then rap the last 1/4 of arrays with another coil. Now create a trigger and place it just before the end of each array. Attach to both the cap and end coil so that everytime the runner passes the trigger, it will dump the cap into the coil reversing the polarityof the field to repell the runner out. After that all is done you should end up with at least a propetual motion or maybe some extra. Make sure the arrays are placed far enough from each other to keep the magnetic feilds from touching. Then wrap all the arrays with a coil leaving a breaking point before the end of the coil reaches it's starting point. The attach the coil to either a cap or battery using diodes to keep the collected source from keeping the coil energized.
 I shouldn't have to draw a picture but if I need to, just ask.
Title: Children's story about LaFonte Group Pseudo Solid Fanner Motor/Generator
Post by: gammarayburst on December 05, 2011, 03:56:15 AM
The Horseshoe Magnet That Discovered The Fanner Effect The Wrong Way
I'm a horseshoe magnet and I like to gobble up steel he would always boast! One day while looking for steel he found a strange role of square steel plates in a long line. They lay there two plates side by side, then two more, then two more, they went on like that for a mile at least!
What a great dinner this was! He put the ends of his horse over the middle of the first two plates so he could chomp down on them and gobble them up! But to his suprise the two plates jumped apart! Well that didn't bother him because just ahead was two more plates and they were pulling on him so hard! They pulled him in and just as the ends of this hungry magnet got right over the middle of the two steel plates they seperated too! So he pulled to the next set of plates and the same thing happened! This kept going on over and over until he was going ever so fast and when he got to the end of the line of steel plates he flew off into the sky and was never seen again! Some people say he landed in Paris and is trying to eat the Eiffel tower!
By Butch and Mark
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 06, 2011, 02:13:42 PM
Ho-ho! That was a good story :)
The story do not tell if the metal plates separated enough to let the magnet attract to the next pair of metal plates. I hope the story is true, except the Eiffeltower part..
Maybe two set of bicycle chains in parallell would be useful for your experiment?

Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 06, 2011, 03:14:32 PM
This is the reason why your experiment probably will fail. A small magnet will limit the ability to separate the iron parts if the iron parts is bigger than the magnet. In this case the iron parts attract each other. If the magnet was much wider, the iron parts would separate until maximum attraction occours between the magnet and the two iron parts. At that point the magnet will not freely move on to the next iron parts in order to separate them too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhWjn7Dy5Sw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhWjn7Dy5Sw)



Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: broli on December 06, 2011, 04:36:55 PM
This is the reason why your experiment probably will fail. A small magnet will limit the ability to separate the iron parts if the iron parts is bigger than the magnet. In this case the iron parts attract each other. If the magnet was much wider, the iron parts would separate until maximum attraction occours between the magnet and the two iron parts. At that point the magnet will not freely move on to the next iron parts in order to separate them too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhWjn7Dy5Sw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhWjn7Dy5Sw)



Vidar

Vidar you are correct in your setup. But it has been discussed for a while that it's better to use an air gap with a strong uniform field. Since the field is mostly directed in one direction you wouldn't have the issue you show where the field lines disperse too strongly causing a situation where the iron attracts. I recommend you redo the experiment with a setup where you contain the magnetic field with a C type core.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 07, 2011, 03:52:02 AM
Vidar you are correct in your setup. But it has been discussed for a while that it's better to use an air gap with a strong uniform field. Since the field is mostly directed in one direction you wouldn't have the issue you show where the field lines disperse too strongly causing a situation where the iron attracts. I recommend you redo the experiment with a setup where you contain the magnetic field with a C type core.
Look at our videos of tests Mark did on the bars seperating. Youtube, lafonte research
Thanks,
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 07, 2011, 03:53:22 AM
This is the reason why your experiment probably will fail. A small magnet will limit the ability to separate the iron parts if the iron parts is bigger than the magnet. In this case the iron parts attract each other. If the magnet was much wider, the iron parts would separate until maximum attraction occours between the magnet and the two iron parts. At that point the magnet will not freely move on to the next iron parts in order to separate them too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhWjn7Dy5Sw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhWjn7Dy5Sw)



Vidar
Totally non-related to our design.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 07, 2011, 02:51:13 PM
Vidar you are correct in your setup. But it has been discussed for a while that it's better to use an air gap with a strong uniform field. Since the field is mostly directed in one direction you wouldn't have the issue you show where the field lines disperse too strongly causing a situation where the iron attracts. I recommend you redo the experiment with a setup where you contain the magnetic field with a C type core.
Yes, maybe that will make a difference. I can try to simulate it too also. With the same magnet as in the video, I could separate two hex-wrench which has center-center much closer than the iron powder pieces.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: nightlife on December 08, 2011, 03:42:59 AM
 I did see the video's and I do not see any chance of the action achieving overunity. What exactly is it that you all think you have achieved?
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: futuristic on December 08, 2011, 03:44:25 PM
Come on take a look at the animation that was posted.
If the energy needed to pull two metal pieces apart is less than kinetic energy from the moving swing arm then this is OU.
If not, it was a good try.
Title: Finally someone understands it!
Post by: gammarayburst on December 08, 2011, 05:51:46 PM
Come on take a look at the animation that was posted.
If the energy needed to pull two metal pieces apart is less than kinetic energy from the moving swing arm then this is OU.
If not, it was a good try.
About time somebody understood what is going on here. One problem thought, you don't have to pull the bars apart, they seperate by themselfs due to the fanner effect. See the videos Mark did. The fanner effect has been around for 100 years in the metal industry.
It's all positive work, no negative work.
Thanks,
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Cloxxki on December 08, 2011, 11:08:25 PM
If it's so simple, what has stood in the way of a runner all this time? And what has been found to solve it? And why don't even the people on this forum see it?
You either are really bad at explaning, or you have a lot of work to do.
Explain the principle, tie it together, and if it's got merit, someone will be able to build it.


In the mean time, I saw a lengthy infomercial on the HoJo Go Green motor plans. http://orlandoramirez.net/ir/Go-Green-HoJo-Motor (http://orlandoramirez.net/ir/Go-Green-HoJo-Motor)
Under $50 and $100 in parts! And a better presentation. I am convinced that's a scam though, although I wonder why they'd go through all the trouble of perpetrating it all for this kind of money. There are easier scams that bring more money.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 09, 2011, 03:29:35 PM
If it's so simple, what has stood in the way of a runner all this time? And what has been found to solve it? And why don't even the people on this forum see it?
You either are really bad at explaning, or you have a lot of work to do.
Explain the principle, tie it together, and if it's got merit, someone will be able to build it.


In the mean time, I saw a lengthy infomercial on the HoJo Go Green motor plans. http://orlandoramirez.net/ir/Go-Green-HoJo-Motor (http://orlandoramirez.net/ir/Go-Green-HoJo-Motor)
Under $50 and $100 in parts! And a better presentation. I am convinced that's a scam though, although I wonder why they'd go through all the trouble of perpetrating it all for this kind of money. There are easier scams that bring more money.
The usual red flag as with this presentation is that a working example is not on public display.
If we get a self runner, it will go on public display full time, around the clock, seven days a week.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: powercat on December 09, 2011, 05:14:00 PM
If we get a self runner, it will go on public display full time, around the clock, seven days a week.
Butch

Quote
If
why are you saying that, your title says   (Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets)

I look forward to seeing your working device.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Cloxxki on December 09, 2011, 06:15:58 PM
why are you saying that, your title says   (Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets)

I look forward to seeing your working device.
I asked someone claiming on Twitter to get the plans working in two days if any reputable builder ever managed. Of course, no response.

Every inventor sets its own standards for proof. None seems to ever be interested to use existing ones accepted by a large group of peers, calling them uneducated or something similar.


Seriously, if I can be explained an OU magnet concept, I am quite confident that I can design a self-runner for it, in a matter of hours if not minutes.
The way I see an OU magnet concept, the gain will be so significant, that half my humble IQ would suffice to make a self-runner.
When you show a 10 year old child. "Here I show you how to hold magnets, such that they move by themselves without getting stuck. Now here is all the Lego you want. Build a self-running engine, and you get to keep all the Lego.
You won't have time to set up your camera to record the design process. It will be right there and then.


I cannot believe that a grown man will invent an OU technology which is all mechanical (magnets), post video's labeled proof, and then need weeks, months, years, to get it past the 1 cycle threshold. I think the LaFonte team is being too easy on itself.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 10, 2011, 02:00:53 AM
I cannot believe that a grown man will invent an OU technology which is all mechanical (magnets), post video's labeled proof, and then need weeks, months, years, to get it past the 1 cycle threshold. I think the LaFonte team is being too easy on itself.

One of the things I was taught growing up to become a "grown man" was that when getting in a debate that adults with good manners gave their full name before the debate began. I apologize if your screen name is your full name.
Butch LaFonte
 
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 10, 2011, 05:25:00 PM
Totally non-related to our design.
Butch
I understand your design. You can separate metal pieces with a magnet. You want to make a chain of pieces so the magnet can separate them in order.


However, there is a problem with the design. When you have an array of metal pieces, the pieces that is located in front and behind the magnets will be magnetized in a way that they attract the next pair in the chain. This attraction will partially prevent you from separating the metal pieces that is located right between the magnets. The metal pieces right between the magnets will drag with them the previous and the next metal piece pairs also. THis will prevent a full space between the pieces, and also reduce the attraction to the next pair in order to separate them too.


It is simple to test, if you haven't already, I am sure you will find this out sooner or later.


Unfortunatly I have no good idea to come around the problem. I'll think about it.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 10, 2011, 11:11:10 PM
I understand your design. You can separate metal pieces with a magnet. You want to make a chain of pieces so the magnet can separate them in order.


However, there is a problem with the design. When you have an array of metal pieces, the pieces that is located in front and behind the magnets will be magnetized in a way that they attract the next pair in the chain. This attraction will partially prevent you from separating the metal pieces that is located right between the magnets. The metal pieces right between the magnets will drag with them the previous and the next metal piece pairs also. THis will prevent a full space between the pieces, and also reduce the attraction to the next pair in order to separate them too.

Please look at the pendulum video mark did and you will see that there is no problem what so ever with the design. In fact the main power comes from the attraction of the magnet to the next closed set.
Please look at our video's on our youtube web site, lafonte research.
Butch

It is simple to test, if you haven't already, I am sure you will find this out sooner or later.


Unfortunatly I have no good idea to come around the problem. I'll think about it.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 11, 2011, 01:32:13 AM
Vidar, Please look at Marks pendlum video. It shows plane as day the is no problem with the principle. Also please see video's on youtube at our site, lafonte research.
Thanks,
Butch laFonte
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: nightlife on December 11, 2011, 06:48:22 AM
Vidar, Please look at Marks pendlum video. It shows plane as day the is no problem with the principle. Also please see video's on youtube at our site, lafonte research.
Thanks,
Butch laFonte

 I did watch those videos and it is plain as day that they show no proof of overunity. Calculate the actions and stop kidding yourself.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 12, 2011, 07:02:40 PM
Vidar, Please look at Marks pendlum video. It shows plane as day the is no problem with the principle. Also please see video's on youtube at our site, lafonte research.
Thanks,
Butch laFonte
I look forward to see a working prototype, and I hope to see no excuse like "problems with the design", "Mark has retired", We need to make some adjustments", "We are not able to make it work again because we tried to adjust it", "...and my camcorder did not work when the machine ran for several hours". ;)


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Cloxxki on December 13, 2011, 10:05:31 PM
Butch, I respect your choice to post your full name, but I call, SHOUT b-s that a grown man should always do so in an arguement.
Only grey, old, grumpy folks ever come with that kind of demand. Don't deal with the internet if you can't deal with it.


Your name offers no added value to your claimes, and my lack of name doesn't take away from mine.
Recently I did share my name, and immediately I had a very intrusive email stalker, involving many people I did not know. Doing so with his name seemed to make it alright for him to invade my privacy, insult me, threaten me, etc.


I have around 100,000 web posts to this nickname over the past decade or longer, in 4 languages on various fields of interest. I have a very consistent open source posting style. Supportive yet critical. This is as good as an identity as they come.
I happen to be a pretty bright guy, IQ and EQ tests tell me so. If you can't explain me why you've got OU with a 4-part device, you're going to have a really hard time going past one full rotation in any variation to it. Convince me though, and before you know it, open source designs based on your finding will start popping up on you.


Just making video of a moving magnet and pointing at it doesn't make you the great inventor that gave the world overunity. We had cloudseeder who thought the same thing. He gave the world his work, they only had to build it, so he could go on to next great inventions. Vague discriptions, no math, no loop or full rotation.


The hardest job for successful OU inventors, is to get across the message. Dozens may have had a working device in their workshops, working an working for days on end without input. But no-one ever managed to explain it sufficiently to someone to replicate and document once and for all.


I am here to help you. I am a novice in OU research, but I learn quickly and am determined to help advance its arrival, and subsequent implementation.


In magnets, you're always presented by a problem, which can usually be overcome. Only to immediately present the next problem. That's the stage in which you are now, as far as I can tell. You can't say that you have OU, when you haven't solve the current problem without getting a new one in return.


Good luck,


J
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 14, 2011, 03:53:32 AM
I look forward to see a working prototype, and I hope to see no excuse like "problems with the design", "Mark has retired", We need to make some adjustments", "We are not able to make it work again because we tried to adjust it", "...and my camcorder did not work when the machine ran for several hours". ;)


Vidar
Vidar, We have never made any of these statements that I can recall? The camcorder thing for sure.
Butch
Title: Increased fanner bars seperating force by factor of 50
Post by: gammarayburst on December 14, 2011, 03:57:58 AM
With state of the art materals and magnets we should be able to go to a factor of 100.
Will keep you posted.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 15, 2011, 03:16:09 PM
Vidar, We have never made any of these statements that I can recall? The camcorder thing for sure.
Butch
It was just a joke. So many others that have invented free energy has in history allways claimed their findings but never been able to get it on tape. When someone ask for a video, the camcorder does not work, or some parts in the design are missing/stolen/defective/blown up.


I have now choosen to believe that you are on the right track, even though I have a bad feeling. I choose to believe because I have not sufficient knowledge about magnetism, or your future design, to determine wether it will work or not.


I would like to try the bicycle chains to separate them with a magnet, and see if the magnet will continue to attract the part ahead where the chains are together. Drawing will be posted some time.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 15, 2011, 04:06:41 PM
Hmmmm, I cannot upload pictures. 56kB, 510x286 pixels JPEG. It is against the security policy or something....
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 15, 2011, 11:21:47 PM
Low-Q, if you ever want to post to me direct by email just et me know.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 16, 2011, 10:29:53 AM
Low-Q, if you ever want to post to me direct by email just et me know.
Butch
Good idea :)  I'll send you my pic asap. - When I come home from work - I do not have your email here at work.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: broli on December 16, 2011, 11:13:15 AM
It was just a joke. So many others that have invented free energy has in history allways claimed their findings but never been able to get it on tape. When someone ask for a video, the camcorder does not work, or some parts in the design are missing/stolen/defective/blown up.


I have now choosen to believe that you are on the right track, even though I have a bad feeling. I choose to believe because I have not sufficient knowledge about magnetism, or your future design, to determine wether it will work or not.


I would like to try the bicycle chains to separate them with a magnet, and see if the magnet will continue to attract the part ahead where the chains are together. Drawing will be posted some time.


Vidar

A solution to that "issue" had been suggested already, look here:

http://www.overunity.com/11309/your-should-be-able-to-understand-this-little-jewel/msg298140/#msg298140 (http://www.overunity.com/11309/your-should-be-able-to-understand-this-little-jewel/msg298140/#msg298140)

Basically you leave the pieces that were opened, open for a little longer so the magnet tends to be attracted more to the closed pieces eliminating a potential balance.

I think this general concept is not suffering from bad design, countless potential designs have been proposed, but from a major lack of attention.
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: johnny874 on December 16, 2011, 06:02:53 PM
I asked someone claiming on Twitter to get the plans working in two days if any reputable builder ever managed. Of course, no response.

Every inventor sets its own standards for proof. None seems to ever be interested to use existing ones accepted by a large group of peers, calling them uneducated or something similar.


Seriously, if I can be explained an OU magnet concept, I am quite confident that I can design a self-runner for it, in a matter of hours if not minutes.
The way I see an OU magnet concept, the gain will be so significant, that half my humble IQ would suffice to make a self-runner.
When you show a 10 year old child. "Here I show you how to hold magnets, such that they move by themselves without getting stuck. Now here is all the Lego you want. Build a self-running engine, and you get to keep all the Lego.
You won't have time to set up your camera to record the design process. It will be right there and then.


I cannot believe that a grown man will invent an OU technology which is all mechanical (magnets), post video's labeled proof, and then need weeks, months, years, to get it past the 1 cycle threshold. I think the LaFonte team is being too easy on itself.

   Cloxxki,
 This video has been discussed before in this forum. I think what he understands is that a magnets field is limited to the space in front of the 2 north poles. And if the magnet on the motor is moving away from the north pole of the opposing magnet when it enters it's field, it will spin.
 If this is why it works, it is also why shielding is not needed. As such, power less than the difference of the 2 repulsing north poles could be generated. Simply because less energy would be generated than is available. Still, it would be energy generation with no energy consumption or waste.
 
                                                                              Jim
 
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq2WSnE7j0&feature=colike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq2WSnE7j0&feature=colike)
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: infringer on December 16, 2011, 06:22:22 PM
has anyone physically verified if this works or not if so have you tried to slap a half circle of coppper coils on the opposite side to generate some power?

Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: johnny874 on December 16, 2011, 09:46:17 PM
has anyone physically verified if this works or not if so have you tried to slap a half circle of coppper coils on the opposite side to generate some power?

  For a time, Stefan had on the front page a magnetic moter demonstration. as such, motors can drive generators or alternators.
 
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 17, 2011, 01:12:21 AM
Low-Q, if you ever want to post to me direct by email just et me know.
Butch
I will try here from my computer at home


The chains are separted apart by the magnet. The chains will try to push the wheel apart. The wheels are fixed to the magnet and will be pushed to the right - the same direction that the magnet wants to go.
Thats the idea anyway.

EDIT: This is a similar design to what I posted in another thread a year ago or so (I cannot remember the name of that thread - or the design)

Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 17, 2011, 05:07:52 PM
I will try here from my computer at home


The chains are separted apart by the magnet. The chains will try to push the wheel apart. The wheels are fixed to the magnet and will be pushed to the right - the same direction that the magnet wants to go.
Thats the idea anyway.

EDIT: This is a similar design to what I posted in another thread a year ago or so (I cannot remember the name of that thread - or the design)

Vidar
Vidar,
We are finding designs I just can't believe. Will talk soon.
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 19, 2011, 12:57:38 PM
Vidar,
We are finding designs I just can't believe. Will talk soon.
Butch
I guess you've been at the scrapyard already searching for old bicycle chains! :)


Br.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: mscoffman on December 19, 2011, 07:41:27 PM
I guess you've been at the scrapyard already searching for old bicycle chains! :)


Br.


Vidar

Of course there is always beltdrive.  :)
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 20, 2011, 06:35:19 AM
Of course there is always beltdrive.  :)
It appears that it would be a static situation? Have you tried to build a test fixture?
Butch
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 20, 2011, 12:29:54 PM
It appears that it would be a static situation? Have you tried to build a test fixture?
Butch
If you refer to my drawing?


It could be a static situation due to following explanations:


The chain will arrange the magnetic flux mostly in the direction of the chain before it returns to the magnet - because iron conduct magnetism better than air. This will cause the magnetic flux inside the chais to not "see" eachother. Hence the chains will not separate at all, or just bearly.


If there is a magnetic separation between the chains, it will be the force acting on the two wheels which will be the drive mechanism and not the magnetic forces directly. However, the magnet is attracted to the chains in the part where they are in process of separation and pull the chains away from the wheels.


Maybe the wheels should be placed closer to the magnet, or even right under it. Maybe the magnet should cover a greater area.


To help myself visualizing the situation one should think of a reason why the chain would move if the magnet and wheels are stationary - i see that it's harder to imagine why that should work even if it's the very same design. It's not that "obvious" anymore.


I got to disassamble my kids bicycles this evening ;D


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: lumen on December 21, 2011, 02:20:25 AM
I have done fairly extensive work along these lines so I will attempt to explain why this does not work.
The reason the chain would try to separate is because the metal becomes a magnet that repels the nearby link that also becomes a magnet under the field of the primary magnet.
The problem is that the nearby links cannot become as magnetic as they would become if they were a single link because the nearby link prevents it by being of the same polarity. So as it separates, the metal becomes more attracted to the primary magnet than when it was close together.

With some steel rails in a < , the magnet will attract more to the wider area. at least to the point where the metal becomes the most transformed into a magnet itself.
 
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 21, 2011, 10:11:02 AM
I have some iron wire that I can shape like that and see how the magnet will respond to that shape.


Vidar
Title: New switch design incorporated in LaFonte Group Pseudo Solid design, video's
Post by: gammarayburst on December 30, 2011, 04:24:59 AM
See attached drawing and I will be posting proof of concept video's tonight and post links. The design has a 90 degree repulsion mode and then switches to a 90 degree attraction mode. Then starts the cycle again. Switch aspect tested in video as well as repulsion and attraction modes.
Butch LaFonte
The LaFonte Group
Title: Re: Video links
Post by: gammarayburst on December 30, 2011, 04:43:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlW0yVfLYRE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlW0yVfLYRE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rs6zsL7nbw&feature=plcp&context=C3e58871UDOEgsToPDskI6pfWOHnIRRyH5_S9QopLg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rs6zsL7nbw&feature=plcp&context=C3e58871UDOEgsToPDskI6pfWOHnIRRyH5_S9QopLg)
Title: Correction on switcher operational sequence, see drawing
Post by: gammarayburst on December 30, 2011, 05:03:09 PM
The operational sequence of the switcher in the Pseudo Solid LaFonte Group Motor/Generator has been changed. See attached drawing.
Butch
Title: Drawings to better understand Pseudo Solid Switcher
Post by: gammarayburst on December 30, 2011, 11:33:38 PM
See attached
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on December 31, 2011, 06:07:37 PM
Butch,


Stick to one idea, build it, test it, and go on if in don't work. You have many ideas, but the last ones cant determine the direction of rotation or movement due to equal conditions in both directions.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: gammarayburst on December 31, 2011, 07:22:54 PM
Butch,


Stick to one idea, build it, test it, and go on if in don't work. You have many ideas, but the last ones cant determine the direction of rotation or movement due to equal conditions in both directions.


Vidar
You are totally incorrect.
Title: Minor changes, drawing attached
Post by: gammarayburst on January 01, 2012, 02:20:49 AM
See attached
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on January 01, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
I don't follow. It seams the fixed part is bigger on left drawing than the other (or was it the opposite). Could you demonstrate this with an animation in 3D?


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: norman6538 on February 01, 2014, 02:25:22 AM

considering this annimation http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/ButchVideo.wmv
and this basic principle

Two like polarity facing magnets will repel and push away
only after they have been squeezed together similar to a coil spring.

it boils down to this -
two adjacent magnets with the same polarity up will repel each other
but if placed on a metal plate they will NOT repel.
then easily moving/sliding one magnet across a metal gap to another plate switches to a repel of the two plates -  and without having to squeeze first.  maybe  ???
But then when returning the moved magnet to the original
place will there have to be a squeeze?

I have measured this and there is some visible evidence
that the repel of two magnets is greater than then repel
with those magnets on metal which effectively diffuses
that repel force.

Norman
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on February 01, 2014, 06:39:00 PM
considering this annimation http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/ButchVideo.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/ButchVideo.wmv)
and this basic principle

Two like polarity facing magnets will repel and push away
only after they have been squeezed together similar to a coil spring.

it boils down to this -
two adjacent magnets with the same polarity up will repel each other
but if placed on a metal plate they will NOT repel.
then easily moving/sliding one magnet across a metal gap to another plate switches to a repel of the two plates -  and without having to squeeze first.  maybe  ???
But then when returning the moved magnet to the original
place will there have to be a squeeze?

I have measured this and there is some visible evidence
that the repel of two magnets is greater than then repel
with those magnets on metal which effectively diffuses
that repel force.

Norman
I think this must be tested in practice to understand it. It is hard to imagine all forces in a magnetic design like this or other designes just by looking on them. The animation shows how it is suppose to work, and that confuse the mind when trying to analyze why it does not work. Because, devices that is designed as a closed loop will never produce excess energy. The math adds up without exceptions - resulting in zero output.




Vidar




Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: norman6538 on February 01, 2014, 06:44:23 PM
So Low-q how do you propose getting out of the closed loop?
My brain won't stretch that far.

Norman

Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on February 01, 2014, 06:55:05 PM
So Low-q how do you propose getting out of the closed loop?
My brain won't stretch that far.

Norman
The only way to get out of the closed loop is to allow external energy to run it. But then you could instead used the external energy source to run something useful directly instead of going through this magnet/iron design first :-)


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Newton II on February 02, 2014, 03:32:17 AM

considering this annimation http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/ButchVideo.wmv



Interesting animation.  But the rolling magnets should only collide with fixed magnet and roll back even if they don't experience repulsion from fixed magnet.  Why do you expect it to climb up the fixed magnet lifting its own weight against repulsion?

I think if you make few design changes IT WILL WORK!!

Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on February 02, 2014, 09:23:11 AM

Interesting animation.  But the rolling magnets should only collide with fixed magnet and roll back even if they don't experience repulsion from fixed magnet.  Why do you expect it to climb up the fixed magnet lifting its own weight against repulsion?

I think if you make few design changes IT WILL WORK!!
The magnets are not fully shielded, so therfor the moving magnet will not approach the stationary one without effort. There will be repulsion between the magnets - relatively strong repulsion. To reduce this repulsion, the magnets must be shielded better, but then the iron pieces will not repel eachother that well anymore.
This design does not work. If one add force in one place, another place will be weak. This is a closed loop and must give and take equally. The sum is therfor zero. A closed loop cannot produce energy. It will procude exact the same amount of energy as when no parts are moving at all.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: vineet_kiran on February 02, 2014, 10:24:05 AM

I think if you make few design changes IT WILL WORK!!


 
I agree.  It can be made to work!
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Low-Q on February 02, 2014, 10:56:57 AM

 
I agree.  It can be made to work!
Don't trust your imagination when it comes to over unity machines. Your own bubble of imaginary reality doesn't change the real world ;-)
Sorry. It will not work.


Vidar
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: norman6538 on February 02, 2014, 12:59:19 PM
Newton II said " I think if you make few design changes IT WILL WORK!!"

Therefore what design changes do you suggest?
I'm all ears.

Norman
Title: Re: Video On line, Proof Of Overunity With Permanent Magnets, LaFonte Research
Post by: Newton II on February 02, 2014, 04:05:46 PM
Newton II said " I think if you make few design changes IT WILL WORK!!"

Therefore what design changes do you suggest?
I'm all ears.

Norman

 
Making the magnets to climb up the repelling fixed magnets as shown in your simulation would be a difficult task.   You may have to suspend these magnets by a solid bar as shown by Gammarayburst in his first video and  provide a iron channel below as shown in your simulation to cover repulsion upto some distance before the fixed magnets.  Magnets swing and pass through the sticky point by momentum at the edge of the channel and get repelled by the fixed magnets.  Which will (may) push the swinging magnets back to its original position repeating the cycle.   The iron channel provided should cover the  faces of swinging magnets completely,  totally neutralizing the flux.

 
Title: New generator design
Post by: gammarayburst on March 24, 2014, 12:30:58 AM
See attached
Thanks, Butch LaFonte
Title: Rotary Design Layout
Post by: gammarayburst on March 24, 2014, 09:16:02 PM
See attachedWith this design should one or both of the coils in a section need replacing or should the fixed magnet need replacing, that single section can be removed and a new one inserted and the machine is back up and running.Thanks,Butch LaFonte