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Author Topic: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.  (Read 755839 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1920 on: April 08, 2012, 01:17:25 AM »
PW:

Quote
I would think that only the Q2 DC bias current (likely around 200ma +/- 50ma) and less than 20% (possibly closer to or less than 10%) of the AC current would be unaccounted for during the osc phase if the FG common was connected to BAT- instead of the CSR.  The bulk of the AC current would bypass the FG via the Ciss reactance of all the MOSFET's which would be much less than Rgen at Fosc.

I think that you are missing a fundamental point.  I am looking at Q2-Q5 as a three-port black box without having to consider frequency and reactance.  I said, "We also know that the sum of the currents I_IN, I_OUT, and AC_OUT equal zero."

So if AC current is flowing out of the box from AC_OUT to the battery ground, then current has to be flowing into the box from either I_IN, I_OUT, or both.  Knowing the polarity of the battery power source, we assume that the current comes into the box from from I_IN.

Likewise, if AC current is flowing into the box from the battery ground to AC_OUT, then current has to be flowing out of the box from either I_IN, I_OUT, or both.  Knowing the polarity of the battery power source, we assume that the current flows out of the box via I_OUT.

Obviously the above two examples are simplified.

So either I_IN or I_OUT will account for all of the current associated with the gate capacitances of the MOSFETs and all of the AC current flowing through the CSR.  As a result, you simply don't have to consider the AC current flowing though the the CSR.  If the coupling on the AC_OUT port was DC and not AC, it would be a different story.

Ultimately the true net current flow is unidirectional.  Seeing a negative voltage across the CSR in negative oscillation mode is not an indicator that the battery is recharging.

I guess if somebody does work on the bench we might see this looked into.

MileHigh

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Offline picowatt

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1921 on: April 08, 2012, 01:52:33 AM »
MH,

If we knew the drain current, we would know the total of AC and DC currents at that point.

At the source, the AC and DC paths split.  DC to BAT- via FG, AC to BAT- via FG and moreso via CSR.

We don't have Idrain for AC or DC, so we must rely on the source current paths for measurement.

I am not exactly sure what you are saying.  We can't ignore the AC paths as the AC is not symmetrical.

PW

Offline poynt99

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1922 on: April 08, 2012, 02:36:42 AM »
So.. what happens when NO FG is used at all, nothing hooked to the circuit at its points, and one simply "tickles" the Q1 gate/Q2 source  with a suitable resistor attached to batt positive? By tickle I mean no full contact, just a scratch and then removal.

Not much should happen TK. You will get a short burst (or multiple bursts due to contact bounce) of oscillation, but as soon as you take the resistor off battery--the output should go flatline.

The reason being; the MOSFET needs a slight DC ON-bias in order to oscillate.

You might want to ask yourself, "what would happen if I supplied ONLY a constant DC bias?". I know what will happen, and I assume you do as well.

.99

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1922 on: April 08, 2012, 02:36:42 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1923 on: April 08, 2012, 02:47:39 AM »
Well, I haven't done it lately but I got the "no FG + tickle" idea from humbugger's work on that other forum a year ago. When I tried it the first time, it did what .99 said, and then when I really noisily and barely tickled, it went into an oscillation mode where there were oscillations across the whole trace which gained in amplitude until I grounded the tickled spot again-- like what MH described, I think. I think without a pull-down resistor or a zero or negative gate signal, a turned-on mosfet gate might just stay on until something drains the charge away.  But with floating gate a mosfet could do just about anything. (Except recharge a battery !) I'm going to wait until I have a few more spare PG50s before I try it again, just in case.

No comments about my most recent videos? I should have thought that the MOSDEF demo especially would have been interesting in light of the current (no pun intended) discussion. And don't forget about alt.snakeoil.... there are always some good video reports under that alias.

I've shot another video that I'm processing and uploading now, showing another interesting effect, that I predicted earlier but had not yet tested for.

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1924 on: April 08, 2012, 02:57:12 AM »
Picowatt
Regarding Q1 not turning on when the scope shots say it should be...
Not actually.  Late yesterday I was finally able to speak to someone about your questions related to the scope shots.  The immediate counter question was 'why is he applying DC?'  Here's the thing.  Apparently the coupling is set to DC -  throughout.  But the peak to peak voltages and 'bias' (not sure if that's the right term) of each channel is also shown.  Which means that 'correctly' you need to adjust to the values of the signal as AC - which is applied from the signal generator.  And that value is given.  You'll then see that the voltage is NOT the >10 volts but something considerably less.  Which also means that there is probably not enough voltage at the gate of Q1 to turn it on - as applied to that first test.
I have looked at as many scope captures as I could find of your testing and it appears that in all captures made after 2-22-11, Q1 is not functioning as it should be.  Scope captures made on or before that date indicate that Q1 is performing as one would expect from the data indicated by the gate drive and CSR traces.  It appears that on 2-22-11 there were some particularly "spikey" tests being performed as the duty cycle was being modified and I suspect that Q1 was being stressed at that time.  If you have additional captures to look at, you should be able to narrow down the date when something happened to the Q1 portion of the circuit.  I hope that helps.
Which also means that there is nothing unreliable about our data capture and there's no need to question the calibration of that machine.
Regarding the location of the connection of the function generator lead's ground clip, it does matter a bit.  When the generator output swings negative, Q2 is biased on.  With the generator set to its full negative position, if the schematic of the output stage .99 posted some time ago is correct, a maximum of -14.5V can be present at the FG output terminal when measured open circuit.  With the internal Rgen of 50 ohms, this would bias Q2 on at approximately 200ma.  This 200ma. flows from the battery through Rload, Q2 and the functon generator.
When the output from the generator 'swings to negative' as you put it - then it is applying a positive voltage at Q2.  How exactly do you propose that any negative current at all is then passed through RLoad?  Especially in view of the oscillations that then manifest which most assuredly are not unidirectional.
If the FG's ground clip is connected to the battery negative, this 200ma. of bias current will not be displayed on the CSR traces and hence not accounted for in the math calculations.  If the FG's ground clip were connected to the end of the CSR opposite the battery minus connection, this 200 ma. of current would be indicated at the CSR as a continuous +50 millivolts by the CSR scope trace for the duration of the FG's negative voltage output.  As the cycle mean indicates -28mv or there abouts, this +50 mv, if not in the CSR loop, represents a significant error.
Again. I appreciate your need to imply that there is an applied negative current flow from Q1 when the signal switches to negative.  Can you show us where this is evident on any of our waveforms?
I wish you could make more data available regarding the "flat battery" test you discussed at the beginning of this thread.  That test seems very interesting and using only one MOSFET in the Q2 location and three flat batteries makes things a bit simpler to replicate.
I'm reasonably certain that this could be tested - rather easily - by any one of you. And I'm also rather keen to see some data from TK's 'claimed' replication.  I'm not actually sure who here is working openly and who isn't.  There is absolutely NO information related to the NERD circuit that is being withheld - to the best of my knowledge.

Kindest regards
Rosemary

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1924 on: April 08, 2012, 02:57:12 AM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1925 on: April 08, 2012, 02:57:59 AM »
Considering the amount of noise present due to the oscillation, yeah it would be possible for the Gate to pick that up I guess. You'd probably need only a 1M or so pull-down to prevent that. Or perhaps only a few hundred pico-Farads of capacitance would do the trick?

Offline poynt99

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1926 on: April 08, 2012, 03:01:09 AM »
TK,

Your video demoing the FG offset and affect on the oscillation modes was a good one. Clearly one can see when the offset is changed from one extreme to the other, the circuit goes from normal switching mode, to burst oscillation mode. Well done ;)

.99

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1926 on: April 08, 2012, 03:01:09 AM »
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Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1927 on: April 08, 2012, 03:12:53 AM »
Basic FG offset function:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoYFxq4bm2w
You all have no idea how hard it is to fake this stuff. I had to use CGI and a room full of renderers to pull this one off.
Not true TK.  All you used was the magical misapplication of a light switch. The trick is to turn it on. 

OH... it's almost six am. I've got to hurry.... it's almost time for me to reset the ROSIE TEST PREVENTION broadcast device, which radiates Tesla technology longitudinal scalar waves that keep Rosemary from thinking coherently and performing a TEST of her batteries for yet another day. I'm going to be boosting the power soon, though, so that a single linecast will prevent her from testing for an entire week.
I'm not sure that this is being correctly focused.  I have absolutely NO say as to when I'll be allowed to run these tests.

(The grubby nails are because I spent literally _all day_ Friday replacing my car's air conditioning system. I vacuumed the residual R-22 out, replaced the compressor, condenser, accumulator, orifice tube with new parts, flushed the evaporator and hoses with dl-limonene followed by compressed air, replaced the  highside switch, the compressor-mounted switch and all the Schreder valves, all the o-rings, changed the fittings to R-134a standard, vacuumed out the system for a couple of hours with a 2-stage pump, recharged with 8 oz oil and 32 oz R-134a--- and now I have blissfully cold air blowing out the airholes in the cabin. And I still found time to re-actuate the PoserPreventer.)
I would strongly recommend that you just wash your hands.  It usually does the trick.

Rosie Pose

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1928 on: April 08, 2012, 03:18:20 AM »
I see that Rosemary still hasn't discovered my hiding place for all my TarBaby test reports. I hide stuff pretty well, don't I? Kind of like in "The Purloined Letter." Also my Tesla NERD preventer is working quite well-- it has even stopped the NERDs from discussing testing at all.

Meanwhile, I've posted... er, sorry, HIDDEN yet another report about Tar Baby here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpqqEefYENU

And.... who ever said ("claimed" as Ains-lie says) Tar Baby was a "replication" of the NERD device? I have explicity said that it is not, and that the only CLAIM I make about Tar Baby is that it performs the same as the NERD circuit (whichever one, I don't care, I've done them all.)
Just because it uses the SAME circuit diagram, the SAME mosfets, the SAME current viewing resistor, the SAME gate drive input signals, the SAME load resistance and impedance (give or take) and makes the SAME heat in the load and the SAME oscilloscope traces as the NERD device.... it cannot be a replication, because it cannot charge its own batteries. QED.

Just like when I replicated Mylow's hoax motor: I did it just like he did, but Sterling wouldn't give me the award, even though he acknowledged my priority--- because MY replication wasn't overunity so it couldn't be a replication, even though the oriiginal wasn't ou either and mine was powered the same as his..... go figure.

So, apparently the only thing that counts as a replication is being able to CONFIRM THE CLAIMS made about the original. Parts, construction, operation, data, none of that matters... only the CLAIMS count.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1928 on: April 08, 2012, 03:18:20 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1929 on: April 08, 2012, 03:25:16 AM »
Not true TK.  All you used was the magical misapplication of a light switch. The trick is to turn it on. 
Heh.... are you hallucinating again? It seems that other people can see just fine what that video shows.
Quote
I'm not sure that this is being correctly focused.  I have absolutely NO say as to when I'll be allowed to run these tests.
NOTE WELL: Somebody else is in control of Rosemary's testing.... I wonder who and why.  When she'll be ALLOWED to run tests. NO SAY.
Quote
I would strongly recommend that you just wash your hands.  It usually does the trick.

Rosie Pose
Said by someone who has never done a lick of hard grubby manual work in her life. My grubby hands mean that I saved several hundreds of dollars on that job AND wound up with several useful tools, like a vacuum pump and a gauge manifold set. I worked for years as an aircraft mechanic, overhauling engines, and believe me, no amount of soap and scrubbing will get your hands clean. Time is the only thing that will do it, as the dirty skin wears away and is replaced by fresh. Washing your  hair with dishsoap is also a good way to clean your hands.

Or you can just pay somebody else to do your dirty work. Try that after the apocalypse, though.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1930 on: April 08, 2012, 03:31:49 AM »
Quote
There is absolutely NO information related to the NERD circuit that is being withheld - to the best of my knowledge.

THAT is an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.

Drain voltage traces, critical for diagnosis. Contact details for your co-authors (standard in scientific communications.) Results from properly performed battery capacity tests. RAW DATA.
WHY WAS A BATTERY REMOVED FROM THE STACK for the second, high heat part of the demo? WHY have you never shown a high heat demonstration using a positive gate pulse and a 72 volt battery pack?
There is so much information that you are withholding that it's like trying to do remote viewing. In fact, we'd be doing a lot better if you would just SHUT UP and stop giving so much MISinformation.

The best of your knowledge is not so good, Rosie Poser.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1930 on: April 08, 2012, 03:31:49 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1931 on: April 08, 2012, 04:06:36 AM »
PW:

Quote
If we knew the drain current, we would know the total of AC and DC currents at that point.

At the source, the AC and DC paths split.  DC to BAT- via FG, AC to BAT- via FG and moreso via CSR.

We don't have Idrain for AC or DC, so we must rely on the source current paths for measurement.

I am not exactly sure what you are saying.  We can't ignore the AC paths as the AC is not symmetrical.

I agree that there is DC and AC current passing through the function generator.  And I agree that AC current is passing through he current sensing resistor.

You state that you need to look at the separate source current paths for measurement.   Try taking a top view and think about what we are trying to measure -> the power supplied by the battery to the entire circuit, (or possibly returned to the battery) while the device runs.

You can break that down into the power dissipated in the load resistor, the MOSFETs, the resistor inside the function generator, and the current sensing resistor.

So, if you look at the AC current going through the current sensing resistor you are not accounting for the DC current going through the main load resistor (that's also going through the function generator), and by extension you are not seeing the power being dissipated in the main load resistor.  It's fraught with too many problems.  (tm  ;D )  I will repeat, a negative voltage across the current sensing resistor does not necessarily indicate counter-clockwise current such that power is being dissipated in the main load resistor or the battery is being recharged.

In my opinion, the only way to do this properly is to get rid of all of the complexities and create a "hardware abstraction layer" for the whole mess.  For example, if you looked at the Q2-Q5 drain current only times the battery voltage, that would tell you the instantaneous power consumption of the entire circuit, (still talking negative offset oscillation mode) and as a result you don't have to worry about the DC and AC function generator currents and the current sensing resistor currents.

Anyway, that's my take on it.  Personally I would ignore all power measurements made with the function generator 'negative' terminal bypassing the current sensing resistor.

Hence, Rosie's reports are junk in my book.

MileHigh

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1932 on: April 08, 2012, 04:07:04 AM »
Rosemary:

Sorry, that's not going to fly.  You must have seen from a few days ago that TK confirmed the current flow through his function generator with a digital multimeter.
If TK has got a digital multimeter that is able to accommodate the frequencies of the oscillation - then he has not shown us that multimeter.
Poynt also agrees with this.
And I'm reasonably certain that Poynt - more than any of you - is well aware of the 'smallness' of that variation in current flow as a result of the generators' ground terminal positioning.
You saw PW's comments from earlier today.
I did indeed.  And his observations 'error' as they're not based on the available data.  I've explained this.
The simple fact is that you don't understand how a function generator works and we do.
I suspect that my understanding of its applications are as profound as they need be for the task at hand.
I also posted an Agilent application note a few weeks back (reposted later by TK) that shows how you can put a function generator into the current loop of a device under test to effectively increase the output voltage from the function generator.
And this is relevant?  Somehow? 

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1933 on: April 08, 2012, 04:09:00 AM »
This is a critical flaw in your measurements and shame on you for intentionally changing the simplified schematic diagram in your two papers to where you show the function generator "negative" terminal connected before the current sensing resistor.
MileHigh - what amuses me most is that you really believe this.  For some reason you seem somewhat 'piqued' that we reference that CSR in the position where it really, really is.  There are 7 of us collaborators.  That's an awful lot of us must be heavily committed to publicly and fraudulently misrepresenting the fact.  7 criminals who stand accused by you MileHigh?  With your conscience entirely untrammeled by concerns related to the effects of what may constitute 'slander'?  Judged 'guilty' notwithstanding the evidence to the contrary?  Because you 'prefer' to believe this?  I'm not sure who should be 'smitten' with a sense of shame - except that it most certainly is not ME nor any of my collaborators.  And in the light of your rather reckless indulgence in traducement - I doubt that can presume to occupy any moral high ground at all.  With or without respect. Golly.
We also know that you originally pathetically tried to lie about the miswiring of the Q2-Q5 MOSFETs as is evidenced in your clip.  That's two lies about your circuit topology where you have been caught red-handed.  There is a sanctity about not lying about your circuit configuration and your data when you present a paper and you broke it twice.  This is a zero tolerance zone.
Zero tolerance zone?  Whatever next?  Am I here engaged in a discourse with Mother Theresa?  I ASSURE you - any reference to any incorrect schematics can be attributed ENTIRELY to my account.  I make no apologies for them as I had and have my reasons.  And the incorrect presentations have been ENTIRELY corrected - fortunately - by the timeous interventions and considerable skills of our Poynty Point.  For which - and for reasons that I will not make publicly available - I am PROFOUNDLY grateful.
This is because you are simply not understanding the fact that the signal you are seeing across the current sensing resistor is an AC-coupled signal coming from the Q2-Q5 MOSFETs that are acting like an AC oscillator.  "AC-coupled" means that there is no DC current flow through the current sensing resistor, all of the DC current flow is going through the function generator. At best, what you see across the CSR might be an indication of the battery current, but that's all you know.  The battery current is flowing through the function generator and your DSO is not looking at it so your average power calculations are invalid.
This is just nonsense.  Again.  Where is the DC current flow going through the function generator?  Where is the evidence?  How?  And why does the CSR NOT represent the current flow to and from the battery?
The issue is not going away and that's why I called the marked-up image of the pegboard, the "Pegboard of Doom."

With this knowledge I can now articulate the proper "LEDs of Doom" configuration for you in negative oscillation mode:

1.  A pair of back-to-back LEDs in series with the CSR.  Both will light up because of the AC signal from the AC output from the AC-coupled Q2-Q5 MOSFET oscillator.

2.  A pair of back-to-back LEDs in series with the function generator output.  Only one LED will light up indicating that current is flowing clockwise through the circuit and the battery set is discharging.

The days for your proposition are numbered.
And as for this bit of propaganda - it's 'EXCEPTIONAL'.  Not scientific - but certainly laudable in the context of artistic irrelevance applied for flavour and bias.  At least there's no pretense at science.
 
 Rosie Pose 'eo'.
  :-*

Offline fuzzytomcat

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Re: another small breakthrough on our NERD technology.
« Reply #1934 on: April 08, 2012, 04:09:47 AM »
ROTFLMAO ....

Guys,

The start of the COP>INFINITY device of Rosemary's started ....

http://www.overunity.com/10407/rosemary-ainslie-circuit-demonstration-on-saturday-march-12th-2011/msg275428/#msg275428             on: February 20, 2011, 03:14:05 PM
http://www.overunity.com/10407/rosemary-ainslie-circuit-demonstration-on-saturday-march-12th-2011/msg294073/#msg294073             Reply #1790 on: July 06, 2011, 02:01:11 AM  ( last reply )

First post (1) and 1,790 reply's ..... = 1,791 sub total  ;)

http://www.overunity.com/11675/another-small-breakthrough-on-our-nerd-technology/msg304941/#msg304941                                      on: November 08, 2011, 06:15:50 PM
http://www.overunity.com/11675/another-small-breakthrough-on-our-nerd-technology/msg318113/#msg318113                                       Reply #1931 on: Today at 06:31:49 PM    ( last reply so far )

First post (1) and 1,931 reply's ..... = 1,932 sub total  ;)

TOTAL POSTS = 3,723  ???

DEVICE COMPONENTS -

1) six (6) battery's
2) five (5) mosfet's w/ heat sinks and attachment hardware
3) one (1) load resistor
4) four (4) 1 ohm wire wound resistors in parallel for one (1) "Rshunt" .25 ohms

TOTAL COMPONENTS -

SIXTEEN (16)  ???

AVERAGE OF POSTS PER DEVICE COMPONENT -

3,723 / 16 =    232   "POSTINGS & REPLY'S"  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o



All for one simple circuit with a CLAIM of COP>INFINITY ...... Humm ....  :P


Cheers,
FTC
 ::)




 

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