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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: ibpointless2 on November 02, 2011, 07:54:15 PM

Title: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 02, 2011, 07:54:15 PM
As many may already know I've been working on crystal cells that are really something. It started off when I was working on Bedini crystal cells and such but I started to branch off on my types of cells. So far I have 2 good cells, the Crystal Glue Cell and the Stove top cell.

I have found with the right mix of crystals you can make a battery like device that powers loads. The Stove cell has is being tested by Lidmotor with his penny oscillator and has been running for over 2 months now. The crystal glue cell is a cell that will recharge itself to its original voltage when left alone. I know some of the claims will be crazy but I'll offer videos for you to watch and give you the ingredients so you can make your own conclusions. The hardest thing to swallow about these cells is there lack of water. I believe that water has been the reason why galvanic cells die, so if you use no water you cells should last for a long time.

The crystal glue cells is Elmer's glue, salt substitute, Epsom salt with copper and magnesium electrodes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ngFfU1hHyM

The stove top cell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWATxAJooE
or Lidmotor's way
http://youtu.be/8t8hurXyp1E


I've been through the ringer with these cells. Many people believe that these cells still use water due to the glue and/or the Epsom salt. here's a video proving that the cells don't use water to run. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb-CiuuSP8Y

Heres a video of it powering a LED
http://youtu.be/ufflp77mcWE

Here's a video of it powering a LCD clock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgs7CIBVgY

Check out my channel on YouTube for more videos on these Cells. Let me know what you guys think.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: lasersaber on November 02, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
I am testing a crystal cell right now.  I have a live streaming video of it running a motor on my website home page.  It just keeps going day after day.  Here's the link: http://laserhacker.com/

These kind of cells really work great!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 03, 2011, 01:54:46 AM
 Great to see you both here. I too am gonna be doing this extensively. Just got to get a few more things and I will be doing the experiments as well.

 One thing I'm gonna be doing is trying to see if geometry of the design has anything to do with the capabilities of these batteries. Most of my experiments will be centered around the cylindrical batteries.

 The mix I'll be tinkering with will be the borax type as I think this is gonna be the best results.

 @IB could we get some more info on the big battery you have been experimenting with just to be clear what is working well?

 Has anyone checked to see what the difference in the metals you are using, ie. weight of each electrode and the ratio to each other? I'm thinking something in the mass in each different metals is causing an imbalance. I believe this is where it is getting it's initial potential difference to setup the crystal matrix in=side of the cell. 1 gram of each metal will be different in charge I'm betting. If we delicately balance the electrodes we might get a better reaction of the cells output. This should be studied as well!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 03, 2011, 02:52:40 AM
I am testing a crystal cell right now.  I have a live streaming video of it running a motor on my website home page.  It just keeps going day after day.  Here's the link: http://laserhacker.com/

These kind of cells really work great!



What crystal cell are you using?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 03, 2011, 03:20:03 AM
Great to see you both here. I too am gonna be doing this extensively. Just got to get a few more things and I will be doing the experiments as well.

 One thing I'm gonna be doing is trying to see if geometry of the design has anything to do with the capabilities of these batteries. Most of my experiments will be centered around the cylindrical batteries.

 The mix I'll be tinkering with will be the borax type as I think this is gonna be the best results.

 @IB could we get some more info on the big battery you have been experimenting with just to be clear what is working well?

 Has anyone checked to see what the difference in the metals you are using, ie. weight of each electrode and the ratio to each other? I'm thinking something in the mass in each different metals is causing an imbalance. I believe this is where it is getting it's initial potential difference to setup the crystal matrix in=side of the cell. 1 gram of each metal will be different in charge I'm betting. If we delicately balance the electrodes we might get a better reaction of the cells output. This should be studied as well!


The big Crystal cell is just Elmer's glue, salt substitute, and Epsom salt with copper tube and a lot of magnesium ribbon. The key to the power is to use both sides of the magnesium ribbon, you must think in three dimensions. I'm working on a way to simplify it and then i'll make a how to video on how to make this cell and even bigger ones. The crystal glue cell (the big blue one and others) and the Stove top cells (the one that runs Lidmotor penny oscillator) are the ones that are doing good. I may have a new crystal cell (Elmers glue, Cream of tartar, Epsom salt, and Salt substitute) that i'm testing out.

I don't think weight of the metal is important. The amount of metal touching the crystal is important. This why John Bedini likes using the star shape, it gives him the most surface area.

From my experiences with these cells I've found that Borax would super charge the cells, but it came at a price. Some but not all of the cells that had borax would never fully recharge back to the original voltage. The borax can be a hit or miss, but if used right it can make a powerful cell.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 03, 2011, 04:35:14 PM

The big Crystal cell is just Elmer's glue, salt substitute, and Epsom salt with copper tube and a lot of magnesium ribbon. The key to the power is to use both sides of the magnesium ribbon, you must think in three dimensions. I'm working on a way to simplify it and then i'll make a how to video on how to make this cell and even bigger ones. The crystal glue cell (the big blue one and others) and the Stove top cells (the one that runs Lidmotor penny oscillator) are the ones that are doing good. I may have a new crystal cell (Elmers glue, Cream of tartar, Epsom salt, and Salt substitute) that i'm testing out.

I don't think weight of the metal is important. The amount of metal touching the crystal is important. This why John Bedini likes using the star shape, it gives him the most surface area.

From my experiences with these cells I've found that Borax would super charge the cells, but it came at a price. Some but not all of the cells that had borax would never fully recharge back to the original voltage. The borax can be a hit or miss, but if used right it can make a powerful cell.

 Woo hoo I can post again!

 I agree that if one was to use the entire potential from all around the magnesium then you would have a stranger potential.

 I am thinking the boron in the borax is the super charger element for the crystal structure.

 I think the mass and density is also very important. The more mass the more charge that is contained in the matter. Also I believe different layers of metals tend to focus the internal potential into tighter configurations. Think of it like cheese cloth of different pore sizes. The internal metal would be less dense then the external metal that was plated onto it. This would tend to split the potential into a finer structure and have a better, tighter filter to present to the medium of the crystalline structure. This should only be done to the external electrode and only to the presenting side or inner facing surface that the crystal is exposed to. The external surface would be better off left as magnesium. One method that I have seen work well is to use an oxide to coat the electrode. I am assuming this should only be for the contact area of the crystalline medium so that the exposed surface can access the environmental charges and pass them into the compression area of the crystalline structure.

 The price of this borax substance is water and it's ability to dissolve the metal. The oxide layer is good for protecting the electrodes so that will eliminate erosion of the metal. As for the ability to hold the potential up under load I am thinking this is a mixture problem. If the structure has too many holes it will become weaker. The mixture is mean to fill the holes.

 Seeing that carbon is being used as an electrode proves to me it is not the matter that is responsible for the flow of current. It is geometry of the surface areas of the structure of crystals and the geometry we can get out of these cells. The metal is merely aligning the structure into a tighter and tighter configuration all flowing twords the center electrode.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 03, 2011, 06:56:16 PM
 There is a relation to the size of the cell and its ability to produce and store an output, and especially of a current of more than just a few mAs.
That is why the higher farad capacitors are made much bigger than the lower farads one. If they could get the same output, they would be making the bigger and stronger ones, small also.
   But the idea of using both sides of the negative electrode to further increase the output is of interest.
  I have made cells similar to Ib's last larger blue cell, although not using the salts electrolyte, yet.   By placing several winds of cathode electrode wire in series on the same copper tube, the output voltage can be raised to several volts, that can light several white leds, with no oscillator needed.
 This is in relation to the number of coils windings that are placed on just that one single copper tube. When placed in parallel higher current can also be obtained. As that system works both in series, as well as when placed in parallel. But, I am very interested in the use of a dry sealed electrolyte, instead of the using a wet paper towel.
  It is also a bit strange that little output was obtained by Ib when he used the same mix on the flat 4" cu/mg  plates. This I don't understand, as I do get some voltage even with my set up, (pictured below).
  My table salt glue cell in now incased in a metal holder, and is still working after about 3 months time. So, even just using regular salt does work, too, raw sea salt has more minerals and would probably work better yet.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 03, 2011, 08:59:48 PM
There is a relation to the size of the cell and its ability to produce and store an output, and especially of a current of more than just a few mAs.
That is why the higher farad capacitors are made much bigger than the lower farads one. If they could get the same output, they would be making the bigger and stronger ones, small also.
   But the idea of using both sides of the negative electrode to further increase the output is of interest.
  I have made cells similar to Ib's last larger blue cell, although not using the salts electrolyte, yet.   By placing several winds of cathode electrode wire in series on the same copper tube, the output voltage can be raised to several volts, that can light several white leds, with no oscillator needed.
 This is in relation to the number of coils windings that are placed on just that one single copper tube. When placed in parallel higher current can also be obtained. As that system works both in series, as well as when placed in parallel. But, I am very interested in the use of a dry sealed electrolyte, instead of the using a wet paper towel.
  It is also a bit strange that little output was obtained by Ib when he used the same mix on the flat 4" cu/mg  plates. This I don't understand, as I do get some voltage even with my set up, (pictured below).
  My table salt glue cell in now incased in a metal holder, and is still working after about 3 months time. So, even just using regular salt does work, too, raw sea salt has more minerals and would probably work better yet.

 Right nick it is just a fancy transformer. With one single wrap to many outer wraps. The medium of induction is actually the crystal lattice. In the action of the induction it focuses the charges and raises the potential. The material of the electrode merely provides the bias to open the channel (diode). Size may not be an issue if the lattice is able to hold it's form. The problem is that we are using soft crystalline material. The fix would be to use a harder lattice with the perfect lattice being a diamond.

 The other issue you mentioned flat versus concentric. I mentioned this before. Round will always be better. This is because the lattice will compress itself as it grows. This allows a better induction path, closer having more effect. In using the heating and cooling phase transitions we are letting the material cool from the outside twords the inner electrode. This creates a focus.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 04, 2011, 01:13:48 AM
  You may be right about it acting as a transformer.  I did see a video where a  guy obtained a nice output with only a just few wraps of mg ribbon, over the solid copper core.. So, more tests are needed. There is some hidden magic there...
  I had a thought about making my own large toroid core made out of carbon, (inside a toroid shaped mold), then after removing the core from the mold, winding aluminum or mag wire around it.  I'll probably make a smaller version, like a two or three inch carbon toroid first.  It has to work, but how well is the question. I have a feeling that it would work very well, with low impedance, and a higher running output, conserving its output levels instead of dissipating them, as the flat plates may do. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 04, 2011, 03:15:22 AM
Crystal Cell powering a pulse motor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmY778UXyPk
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 04, 2011, 03:57:02 AM
  Can you connect it to a red led, instead? 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 04, 2011, 06:07:35 PM
  You may be right about it acting as a transformer.  I did see a video where a  guy obtained a nice output with only a just few wraps of mg ribbon, over the solid copper core.. So, more tests are needed. There is some hidden magic there...
  I had a thought about making my own large toroid core made out of carbon, (inside a toroid shaped mold), then after removing the core from the mold, winding aluminum or mag wire around it.  I'll probably make a smaller version, like a two or three inch carbon toroid first.  It has to work, but how well is the question. I have a feeling that it would work very well, with low impedance, and a higher running output, conserving its output levels instead of dissipating them, as the flat plates may do.

 Just remember the crystals are the magic here. They both protect the metals and conduct via the sheets that form the crystals structure. You can think of this process like this: The nozzle on a hose.

 I had more time to think about the main differences between IB's battery and John's. IB uses induction in the form of a spiral around the target large formed electrode. This will amplify by itself just from the induction alone. When you add a crystal focus-er on top of that it increases the voltage and indirectly the current or flow. Remember the hose analogy. The one thing that allows this to happen is that we are using charges instead of our current electricity. Charges are like little self contained units and they are being fired at the copper inner electrode which converts that to electrical impulses. The gun like action being the crystalline structure it has to pass through. The external coil of magnesium is the collector from the environment and it is a coil after all and that raises the potential of the magnesium in a big way when compared to the inner electrode.

 I'm starting to wonder if these crystalline structures are solid at all? It seems to me that they are built via little flakes that are triangular in shape as the sheets form and stack. It leads me to believe they are made entirely like a house of cards would be made. This would also explain the ability of some crystals to have piezo electric abilities or vibratory movement in either direction. This event is nothing more then charges being sucked into the structures base then squeezed out the tips. Hence why I called them charge pumps. The charges can flow easily one way but not the other way. This is the diode like action we are seeing and the forced output we are seeing when we bias the diode to flow with the electrodes and just the base potential of the electrodes in ambient space. This also proves why some of them need to be bumped open or biased on by an external charge source when different materials are used for the crystalline matrix. We need to start thinking of another component we could squeeze into the structure to improve the flow of charges through the structure. With current mixed that use borax I believe that is handled by Boron. This is the same stuff that we use to increase the magnetic properties of magnets and it's shape is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icosahedra . Notice the triangular sheets that form the shape.

 More on Platonic Solids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solid

 This is some very esoteric and age old stuff here. When we are talking about Plato that is pretty old. There is something to this stuff so read it all please, it will help immensely!

 Some interesting views as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Shechtman

 When I started to look into crystals and the why water freezes into the structures it does I found this page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystallization

 I think we need to pay attention to the cooling rate and crystal formations we are trying to setup here in order to obtain the best formations to channel more current.

 Well my chems are here. Now for the metals. Copper is easy to get but magnesium might be tricky. Some have reported getting magnesium from home depot? Is that true? What was the packaging like? Did it have anything in particular that I might find it easier?

 Chems list:

 Borax
 Nu-Salt: Potassium chloride, 1% cream of tartar & silicon doixide
 McCormics Alum
 Coarse crystal Sea Salt
 Epsom Salt
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 05, 2011, 12:47:25 AM
@jbignes5

The best way to get magnesium is through Ebay.com.
Here's a link to it

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311&_nkw=magnesium+ribbon&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 05, 2011, 12:54:26 AM
 
   
   I don't use salts, nor have I needed them, as they are the cause of the oxidation, along with the water that it takes to keep them working. Dry salts don't create any voltage, they need water. Salts are not protecting the metals, it is the semiconductor layer, or the glue that is not allowing the air or moisture in.
  Ib has made a very unusual cell, which traps the water in the cell, something that John Hutchinson may have come up with originally.  But it was Ibs use of the glue, and salt substitute that makes the difference, on the current cells.  His newest cell is a replication of what we are now calling the Lasersaber Cell, as it was his design, I believe.  However we still don't know what Ib's version  (the Blue cell) will produce, as far as the long term running output levels.  As his current levels up to now have been very low,  but when you have 50mAs or higher, like my cell produce, even without the use of salts, then that may be a different thing. Time will tell, but so far his unique methods seams to be working very well. And even Lasersaber likes what Ib has done with his design.
  I have not used his mix, other than to make a table salt cell, which is still working after some months. As I can still get a decent output just by using carbon and aluminum, and yes the quartz crystals.   But, the semiconductor cell like John Bedini or Marcus Reid are working on, is something else again. Hopefully we can develop that into being a real work horse, also.

   The potential difference of the two different metals, or of the carbon which conducts better than any metal will create a voltage, and a current. This not due to the carbon or to the two different metals, or the use of salts, but because of the field energies that surround them, the ambient energies. That is where the magic lies, for me, and how to makes cells that can tap that source.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 05, 2011, 01:24:28 AM
 
   
   I don't use salts, nor have I needed them, as they are the cause of the oxidation, along with the water that it takes to keep them working. Dry salts don't create any voltage, they need water. Salts are not protecting the metals, it is the semiconductor layer, or the glue that is not allowing the air or moisture in.
  Ib has made a very unusual cell, which traps the water in the cell, something that John Hutchinson may have come up with originally.  But it was Ibs use of the glue, and salt substitute that makes the difference, on the current cells.  His newest cell is a replication of what we are now calling the Lasersaber Cell, as it was his design, I believe.  However we still don't know what Ib's version  (the Blue cell) will produce, as far as the long term running output levels.  As his current levels up to now have been very low,  but when you have 50mAs or higher, like my cell produce, even without the use of salts, then that may be a different thing. Time will tell, but so far his unique methods seams to be working very well. And even Lasersaber likes what Ib has done with his design.
  I have not used his mix, other than to make a table salt cell, which is still working after some months. As I can still get a decent output just by using carbon and aluminum, and yes the quartz crystals.   But, the semiconductor cell like John Bedini or Marcus Reid are working on, is something else again. Hopefully we can develop that into being a real work horse, also.

   The potential difference of the two different metals, or of the carbon which conducts better than any metal will create a voltage, and a current. This not due to the carbon or to the two different metals, or the use of salts, but because of the field energies that surround them, the ambient energies. That is where the magic lies, for me, and how to makes cells that can tap that source.


I would like for you to prove to me how water is trapped in my cells.

The very reason why my the glue cell work is not due to the glue or the water that's in the glue. You can make my cells without the glue. The biggest reason why my glue cell works is due to Salt substitute and Epsom salt together mixing as one crystal, you can't just use one of the salts you need both or it will produce very weak and useless cells.

I've done countless testing on the glue cells. Do you how I know that my cells don't have water? One way I've found out is that if you have 5 grams of glue and let it dry it drops to 2 grams, which means that 3 grams of Elmer's glue is water. I use that ratio when making a cells, this is how I know a cell is dry. Also if you have ever made the actual crystal glue cell you would notice that it will reject all the water that's in it when you mix the salt substitute and Epsom salt. Its not the salts that cause oxidation its the water. To say that water is trapped in my cell is flawed because if water was still trapped in the glue then there would be no need for the salts or better yet since Epsom salt has 7 water molecules i could just use Epsom salt and Elmer's glue but it doesn't work that way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb-CiuuSP8Y

What makes the Crystal glue cell so special is that no water is needed for it to run. Water is the reason why cells die and that is because water is the universal solvent ( can destroy anything). Avoid water and you get a cell that last for a long time. This is what makes Bedini's cells flawed, he needs water to make them run. There is no semi-conductor action in Bedini's carbonate crystal cells, its a very fancy galvanic battery. In-fact bedini carbonate crystal cells cells have been done before http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrQAT9z0ASI

John Hutchinson is either a fake or not telling us something. Marcus Reid won't tell us nothing so who knows? This whole semi-conductor thing has gotten a little out of hand, What powers most everyone's cells is a galvanic reaction due to the water. If you cells still works after its been dried for a week, been spray painted fully and still has its original voltage after a month then you have a real crystal cells and not a galvanic battery.




Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 05, 2011, 01:34:44 AM

 N ick Both if not all the guys doing work here are using crystals. It doesn't matter if it is a salt or not. Salts are easier to rearrange and are not hard locked into matter like say silica's and carbon. But I do listen nick. Here is the wiki stuff about carbon: "Carbon is the 15th most abundant element in the Earth's crust, and the fourth most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. It is present in all known life forms, and in the human body carbon is the second most abundant element by mass (about 18.5%) after oxygen.[14] ****This abundance, together with the unique diversity of organic compounds and their unusual **polymer-forming ability at the temperatures commonly encountered on Earth**, make this element the chemical basis of all known life."

The salts are to get my feet wet and to see if the output is limited by the material we use to form the network in these batteries.

 I know about Lasersabers work and have been following his progress as he goes along. He was the original experimenter to further our understanding of this process.

 I too believe carbon is a key in the ultimate battery. As I go along I will be trying many of these formula's including yours. Also what do you get when you super compress the carbon? A crystal forms? Hmmm.. I's always been about crystals really.

 Case in point they now suspect that they found an actual planet sized diamond that was inside of a star. Wow who would have seen that coming? *points to himself* That Diamond was the valve to open a flow of energy that we could not even understand. Imagine whats inside our sun? Although the diamond they found in the old star was the size of Jupiter it goes to show us that there is matter stuck in a hole so to speak. Reference: http://newyork.ibtimes.com/articles/204033/20110825/pulsar-diamond-planet-white-dwarf.htm .

 Imagine this. There are super huge black holes in the center of our galaxy. These Black holes chew up matter and funnel the energy away beyond our ability to detect it's speed. This energy forms conduits of this energy that spin and twist. I think these conduits go from center to outer of our galactic disk. Now these conduits attract matter to them and they are not perfect conduits. They break open and spew out huge balls of energy. One such ball is our sun. Matter is also attracted to this outlet and gets accelerated twords the opening. Now think about the other matter piling on this first mater that stuck to it. It gets tremendous energy and huge amounts of pressure as the matter keeps piling on. This forms a crystal. This crystal is pyramidal in shape and is actually acting like a spray nozzle.

 To be continued.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 05, 2011, 02:34:04 AM
   Ib:
   I think that you are misinterpreting what I've said.  I have heard you mention your views before, and am not contradicting them, as your seam to think. Nor am I saying that your type of glue cells are running on water, because it is trapped inside the cell. So, please chill out, or not,  it's up to you. But I am on your side, so no need to argue...
  What I am saying is that although most other cells may be galvanic in nature, and even air can act as an electrolyte, it is your original use of the glue, which makes a difference compared to the Hutchinson mix. As well as the salt substitute Epsom combination. But that its the glue that protects the metals, from the moisture, and not the salts. Nor are salts absolutely needed as an electrolyte, as I've gotten by without them, and still able to light an led on one cell alone, with no oscillator needed.
  Although you may think that you've dried the glue cell because it is rock hard, there is still some water in it, not that that is what is making the cell function.
  The point is to make a cell that will last a long time, and is not galvanic,  so that it does not consume itself. Which you may have done, and I have also. As I don't use any water or any salts at all, and still get an output. So, what I'm saying is that it does not have to take water or even salts to create the output, but it does take ambient energies and two different metals, or carbon.  Without those things there is no output, regardless of liquids, moisture, salts or anything else, as that is the true cause of why the cells work in a non galvanic way. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 05, 2011, 02:39:16 PM

I would like for you to prove to me how water is trapped in my cells.

The very reason why my the glue cell work is not due to the glue or the water that's in the glue. You can make my cells without the glue. The biggest reason why my glue cell works is due to Salt substitute and Epsom salt together mixing as one crystal, you can't just use one of the salts you need both or it will produce very weak and useless cells.

I've done countless testing on the glue cells. Do you how I know that my cells don't have water? One way I've found out is that if you have 5 grams of glue and let it dry it drops to 2 grams, which means that 3 grams of Elmer's glue is water. I use that ratio when making a cells, this is how I know a cell is dry. Also if you have ever made the actual crystal glue cell you would notice that it will reject all the water that's in it when you mix the salt substitute and Epsom salt. Its not the salts that cause oxidation its the water. To say that water is trapped in my cell is flawed because if water was still trapped in the glue then there would be no need for the salts or better yet since Epsom salt has 7 water molecules i could just use Epsom salt and Elmer's glue but it doesn't work that way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb-CiuuSP8Y

What makes the Crystal glue cell so special is that no water is needed for it to run. Water is the reason why cells die and that is because water is the universal solvent ( can destroy anything). Avoid water and you get a cell that last for a long time. This is what makes Bedini's cells flawed, he needs water to make them run. There is no semi-conductor action in Bedini's carbonate crystal cells, its a very fancy galvanic battery. In-fact bedini carbonate crystal cells cells have been done before http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrQAT9z0ASI

John Hutchinson is either a fake or not telling us something. Marcus Reid won't tell us nothing so who knows? This whole semi-conductor thing has gotten a little out of hand, What powers most everyone's cells is a galvanic reaction due to the water. If you cells still works after its been dried for a week, been spray painted fully and still has its original voltage after a month then you have a real crystal cells and not a galvanic battery.

 I can't say that I agree more with you IB. John H, John B and Marcus Reid are following their own path and likewise have their own agendas as well. We, of course, are not sheep. So lets try to keep this on track ok?

 I too believe all of them are relying on water to perform their magic and some of it is great magic, don't get me wrong. Just because water is involved does not make it a bad thing. When you protect the electrodes with oxides the energy is allowed to pass without contact of the water to the metal. So that is a viable avenue to be exploring.

 But my direction has always been crystals. Even when I was a kid I had made myself a wand out of a copper tube and double ended crystal I bought from a store. It didn't do magic but it sure felt funny in my hand without it's leather covering and now I am starting to understand why.

 I will be doing all the experiments you guys have been doing. Nick it's just that IB's stuff is easier to get atm, so it's first on the table. Also I think what you are doing is great. It shows that the concept is solid enough to work without water in the process. But I am starting to think water has a lot to do with this even when you think it is not. Water is in just about everything or it is in the process of making the crystals we are using. Yes even quartz to a certain extent has water to evolve it to what it is today. Even the carbon you are using was in the process that created the carbon you are using so water is related even in an indirect way.

 Crystals themselves have big time water in them. If not then some other fluid which usually changes the color of the crystal. Crystals act visually the same way as water. crystals tend to have ultimate resolution because they are constructed in a pressurized way. Even when made in water the pressure of the water tank works in the same way as compacting via another way like carbon in a special vice. So water in some way is always involved in the process at one time or another.

 This is not related to water maybe but have a gander at a gold nano particle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Twin2.jpg

 I don't believe it is very important as to what the material is besides a strength component. But from this view gold still has spaces in it. And this is where I think the water component comes in. I say water component because there is something in water that everything uses to form it's structure, it's just easier to say water atm but I think it is a sub component of water that is responsible for everything having spaces in it. You could say it is what we float in. Even space itself has this sub component in it just in a lower density then what is around our planet. It seems matter has a counter part. Not anti matter per say but a complimentary component that lets matter have force through distance! This counter component seems to be a transmitter of matters trapped energy. We can not measure this stuff because it defies our probes for information. It moves before we can react hence why it doesn't seem to be there but it is there. We know it is there because of the effects we observe. Static Induction and electric fields are it's proof.

 More on Carbon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYkyUqUa6vU&feature=related

 But it seems crystals and the lattice they provide might be capable of doing more then carbon since when the carbon is squished it turns non conductive. Carbon might be a no win situation.

 Reviewing the crystal structure might help you understand why I think the crystal structure might be a better avenue.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm-i1c7zr6Q&feature=related
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Du4zI4GJ0&feature=related

 The first video is part one and deals with the structure of crystals and the network it provides. The second one deals with certain types of matter related to the crystal structure.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 05, 2011, 05:35:32 PM
  What I have been trying to relay is that it is not the water, crystals, glue, saltz, or metals that are the source of the energy.  And that there is more to these cells than a galvanic reaction based on liquids, and the dissolution of metal. That is the only reason that I mention it. I am certainly not trying to get anybody to make my type of cells, nor is that my aim. It is only in pointing out the cause of the power, which has to do with what is external to all cells and materials.  So, it does not depend on them to make an led light.  I will give more proof of this in the future. But for now just keep in mind that like B_rads has shown, even just carbon/carbon cells can produce an output, even with no metals, and no water.
  The reason that I bring up the semiconductor cell idea, is because it is working on a different type of reaction entirely. And I feel that that can be of great benefit, in obtaining a much higher output, than what has been done even up to now, by John B, Hutchinson, Reid, etz... We are really in the infancy of this type of cell. Again not that I'm trying to guide anyone in that direction, it is only my opinion, as seeing that the rest of the electronics industry has already utilized the semiconductor in an amazing way.  So, no need to argue the point, as I am only making an opinion based on my reasonings, and on what I seen and done. As I've worked in the electronics business for almost 20 years, and not just making these different types of cells.
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 05, 2011, 05:54:04 PM
I don't think that any type of real semi-conductor action is happening with anyone's cells. Its true the oxide layer makes a semi-conductor but in the presence of water it is a water battery. The oxide layer doesn't stop the corrosion it only slows it down. If oxide layer did stop corrosion than aluminum would never corrode due to aluminum having a layer of oxide on it when its exposed to air.

The best way to make a cell last for a long time is to avoid water. Water will corrode anything no matter if it has a oxide layer on it. I only say this from all the testing i've done, if your cell needs water to run than it will more than likely corrode and die. But it is true that you can't fully get away from the water due to the crystals having water in the lattice but the biggest thing is if you cell needs constant water to run than its a water battery. I'm not saying who's wrong or right, just stating what my experimentation has shown me.
We all are making great progress and must keep pushing forward.  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 05, 2011, 08:23:01 PM
 I know what you guys are saying but water is used in the process to setup the matrix. After the water has done it's job it should evaporate from the structure. Water is not used in the process after the setup of the structure. But I think that you can grow a better structure as the crystal forms inside of the mix. Like some have noticed you can drop water on it little by little and it it should dissolve the structure and reform it making better connections. This process can be seen in the bones when they break. The healing process bridges the break and forms a harder connection at the break. This could be a way to grow better crystal channels through a battery like this is. Eventually water would be no use at all to the process.

 I am gonna attempt to do this and see if I can grow a battery stronger in that process.

 I have started a battery with aluminum around a carbon electrode (pencil lead)

 The mix is 1 teaspoon of borax to 1/2 teaspoon alum and 1/2 teaspoon salt substitute.

 I mixed the whole mess in a small cup really well before adding to the container for the battery. Then I inserted the carbon electrode and added hot water till it was even with the mix. This I set aside to dry out a bit for a week I am guessing.

 Right away it has .5 volts but that is with the water. And this is not heat treated at all yet. I do plan on baking the unit till it flows as well but that will be down the road. I'm just using the water to set the unit up in a rough way, like concrete. Then I will bake it like an electrete is made. Baking the unit will also drive most of the moisture out of it as well.

 I am wondering if shorting out the cell while baking will allow it to form extra channels and lock them in that way, like we make magnets?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 05, 2011, 10:01:44 PM

 I am wondering if shorting out the cell while baking will allow it to form extra channels and lock them in that way, like we make magnets?


you know i've wondered about that too?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 05, 2011, 10:33:17 PM
    Guys:
   I also don't know what to think about the use of water, or if it can really be avoided without it getting locked into the structure of the cell.
My cement cells are getting close to a year old, and are still working, although with 1/2 of the 70 mAs that they started with. It may not be entirely possible or desirable to dry out some of these cells, even in an oven, as I've tried that, and they still work, or by shorting them out.  So there is more than galvanics here, or just "advanced galvanics", there is more to it.
  The red led as well as the infrared led as an example, can both produce a current that has nothing to do with galvanics, so, it is possible to have an output that is not galvanics related from semiconductor materials.
 The fact that some cells still need water to reactivate them, is showing that we are not there yet, or they would not need the additional water.
My Carbon/Quartz cells do not use additional water, although there may still be some water trapped inside their structure also. Carbon can be easily dried in an oven, and then further sealed in a cell before it can absorb any moisture.
  Once salts are melted and cooled they lose some of their water, and  become more like a rock, instead of a crystal, even though they can start to recrystalize if water or moisture is present, to some degree, as Alum will do.
But, this is getting out of my very limited area of knowledge.
 
Ib:
   I think that what you're doing in using the glue-salts mix as a dry electrolyte is very interesting, since there is no additional separation between the two electrodes, and the mix covers both. If this works without any oxidation, as you've mentioned, and with no dropping of the output over time, as most cell will do, that is really something, and needs further looking into to develop.
  The reason that most cell lose their original output levels is not entirely related to the break down of the metals. As this can happen in a matter of hours. As certain ions such as the hydrogen ions get attracted or stuck to the anode and build up a restrictive layer there that does not allow further current through, forming an obstruction to the ion flow.  The use of the carbonates in the mix may help this to some degree, although Lidmotors last test are showing that carbonate cells have shown a drop in output, also. John B is getting 250 mA from his cells, does show some merit though, as no one has obtained that high an output or able to maintain at 30 mA under load. He did mention having to add some drops of water. I don't know if that relates to all his cells, or just the ones with watering holes in them.
   I 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 05, 2011, 10:54:08 PM
@nickz

I have some cement cells that still work but are at a much lower power than with what they started with. This also reminds me of any battery, even when the battery is dead its still got power. I've never seen a AA battery at 0 volts before, they all seem to have some charge in them. The question is what is this charge? I've done test before on lead acid batteries that were dead and I left them shorted out for a long time but they would never reach 0 volts. I think every battery has some magic in it that goes un-noticed. But I passed this off as being something that i'll never understand.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 05, 2011, 10:55:38 PM
 It might not do what I expect on second thought. Equalizing the metal electrodes might make it worse. I guess thats what experimenting is all about...

 Now I really think we need to sit down and play with these both in mixture and methods of creating the diode like structures. Maintaining the structures  after they have been made is another later on problem.

 IB how did you make your big sealed battery in a concise step by step explanation? Since that is the most current I have ever saw coming from these batteries including John B's. You have something there and we need to explore that way first.

 If I remember you had a copper pipe in the center? Why is that? What was your thinking there?

 Don't get the wrong impression. I am thinking that is probably the best way to get an even charge to the copper mass. That is probably the best idea yet. My thinking is that the medium flows through the tube contacting all the internal surface and increases the interaction strength with the improved ambient charge flow.

 One of the thing I hear you saying a lot is how the water does it magic once it is locked in it's structure. Well the water is still free to move in that structure. It has breathing room so to speak. So the water sloshes back and forth in that structure changing the potentials of each face of the structure.
 Remember water reacts to static potentials ie. charged comb next to water stream will bend the stream slightly. That must mean water has a static field as well like any other matter or in some way conducts static fields.

 Think about how magnets are made and you will see the parallels I am trying to draw between the two processes. Just from what you guys have done already proves you are setting up diode like channels in the matter of the crystals that block one way and allow the opposite way. Although the channels are weak they add up. More pumps in series the stronger the current. Parallel doesn't seem to do anything with these batteries and I know why. Think about diodes and how they work. The more you have in series the better the ability to resist the reverse flow. In our case the reverse flow is the resistance to pressure or load. I hope that helps to further your understanding.

 I want to take you back to our experiments with the Captret. In fact this is the same process as we are doing here. The battery is replaced by the electrodes. In the Captret it used a quasi battery already, the electrolytic capacitor. What we have done is copy that method but we are using the difference between two metals in the ambient environment to supply the potential difference instead of the battery. We never could loose the stigma of illegitimate operation because we used a battery. Even though my battery never lost one volt the captret could not keep the diode like formation inside of it for long and lost the ability to provide a load substantial flow because the crystals in the electrolytic were not locked in.

 At least you are making headway in that direction by replacing the battery with something that will never loose it's charge if you can protect the matter that is providing the potentials. You are very correct in your assumptions that a galvanic reaction is bad in this situation. But I beg to differ with you that an oxide layer can not protect the metals. When water is locked into the structure and only used inductively how can the water even touch the metal? We know tons about static induction but never thought It could do what we needed. From what you have seen from your own experiments, has your ideas changed about this process now? The oxide layer is made in much the same way as the water example but the water is not so dense in this case it is air. The crystal formation of the oxide layer is made from a lot of heat(charges) and the medium is the air. Air is just water broken right? Well replace what we are doing here with the water video and you will see the parallel, I hope. The organization of the crystalline lattice is controlled by the metal itself or grown from the metal. Think of the metal as a seed crystal and a source of matter for this process.

 Another avenue to understand this process is this one: http://crystalradio.net/minerals/index.shtml

 The only reason they are using oxides is because of the type of crystals they are using. Ones with tons of water will kill the electrodes if they are not protected. So maybe the answer is to use Nicks process and nix the water all together??
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 06, 2011, 03:10:03 AM
  I have not been able to obtain the steady 450mA or so, of current like the Ib's Blue Cell has gotten and can also maintain under the load of the meter.
So I think that the process that he is using that enables such high current levels without oxidation needs to be looked into. As nobody has gotten that high a reading before, especially from such a small cell. 
  I will make a cell tomorrow that will use a solid brass 1/4" rod and aluminum wire wrapped around the rod. As I don't have Epsom, I will use just  plain table salt and white glue mix, for now, and see what happens. I'm interested in seeing if the glue-salt mix can be applied and work properly without any other separator between the two metals. I will cover the whole outside aluminum wire cathode with a second coat of just the glue to seal the first layer. Once you mix the glue with the table salt you only have a minute or so before it heats up fairly hot, and hardens.
  Regular salt absorbs water like a sponge, even my E-poxy/salt cells were practically dripping water after some days, which is why they are working now, but not at first. It's hard to avoid galvanics when there is water present, as it over powers the non-galvanic action that is happening at the same time.  I will look for the Epsom/salt substitute when I can though, as I'm real into get some amps... instead of milliAmps
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 06, 2011, 04:22:49 AM
  I have not been able to obtain the steady 450mA or so, of current like the Ib's Blue Cell has gotten and can also maintain under the load of the meter.
So I think that the process that he is using that enables such high current levels without oxidation needs to be looked into. As nobody has gotten that high a reading before, especially from such a small cell. 
  I will make a cell tomorrow that will use a solid brass 1/4" rod and aluminum wire wrapped around the rod. As I don't have Epsom, I will use just  plain table salt and white glue mix, for now, and see what happens. I'm interested in seeing if the glue-salt mix can be applied and work properly without any other separator between the two metals. I will cover the whole outside aluminum wire cathode with a second coat of just the glue to seal the first layer. Once you mix the glue with the table salt you only have a minute or so before it heats up fairly hot, and hardens.
  Regular salt absorbs water like a sponge, even my E-poxy/salt cells were practically dripping water after some days, which is why they are working now, but not at first. It's hard to avoid galvanics when there is water present, as it over powers the non-galvanic action that is happening at the same time.  I will look for the Epsom/salt substitute when I can though, as I'm real into get some amps... instead of milliAmps

I highly advise you to not use table salt and stick with Epsom salt and salt substitute. Using a lot of metal is key to amps.

But if you do use table salt let us know how it works out for you.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 06, 2011, 04:35:29 AM
It might not do what I expect on second thought. Equalizing the metal electrodes might make it worse. I guess thats what experimenting is all about...

 Now I really think we need to sit down and play with these both in mixture and methods of creating the diode like structures. Maintaining the structures  after they have been made is another later on problem.

 IB how did you make your big sealed battery in a concise step by step explanation? Since that is the most current I have ever saw coming from these batteries including John B's. You have something there and we need to explore that way first.

 If I remember you had a copper pipe in the center? Why is that? What was your thinking there?

 Don't get the wrong impression. I am thinking that is probably the best way to get an even charge to the copper mass. That is probably the best idea yet. My thinking is that the medium flows through the tube contacting all the internal surface and increases the interaction strength with the improved ambient charge flow.

 One of the thing I hear you saying a lot is how the water does it magic once it is locked in it's structure. Well the water is still free to move in that structure. It has breathing room so to speak. So the water sloshes back and forth in that structure changing the potentials of each face of the structure.
 Remember water reacts to static potentials ie. charged comb next to water stream will bend the stream slightly. That must mean water has a static field as well like any other matter or in some way conducts static fields.

 Think about how magnets are made and you will see the parallels I am trying to draw between the two processes. Just from what you guys have done already proves you are setting up diode like channels in the matter of the crystals that block one way and allow the opposite way. Although the channels are weak they add up. More pumps in series the stronger the current. Parallel doesn't seem to do anything with these batteries and I know why. Think about diodes and how they work. The more you have in series the better the ability to resist the reverse flow. In our case the reverse flow is the resistance to pressure or load. I hope that helps to further your understanding.

 I want to take you back to our experiments with the Captret. In fact this is the same process as we are doing here. The battery is replaced by the electrodes. In the Captret it used a quasi battery already, the electrolytic capacitor. What we have done is copy that method but we are using the difference between two metals in the ambient environment to supply the potential difference instead of the battery. We never could loose the stigma of illegitimate operation because we used a battery. Even though my battery never lost one volt the captret could not keep the diode like formation inside of it for long and lost the ability to provide a load substantial flow because the crystals in the electrolytic were not locked in.

 At least you are making headway in that direction by replacing the battery with something that will never loose it's charge if you can protect the matter that is providing the potentials. You are very correct in your assumptions that a galvanic reaction is bad in this situation. But I beg to differ with you that an oxide layer can not protect the metals. When water is locked into the structure and only used inductively how can the water even touch the metal? We know tons about static induction but never thought It could do what we needed. From what you have seen from your own experiments, has your ideas changed about this process now? The oxide layer is made in much the same way as the water example but the water is not so dense in this case it is air. The crystal formation of the oxide layer is made from a lot of heat(charges) and the medium is the air. Air is just water broken right? Well replace what we are doing here with the water video and you will see the parallel, I hope. The organization of the crystalline lattice is controlled by the metal itself or grown from the metal. Think of the metal as a seed crystal and a source of matter for this process.

 Another avenue to understand this process is this one: http://crystalradio.net/minerals/index.shtml

 The only reason they are using oxides is because of the type of crystals they are using. Ones with tons of water will kill the electrodes if they are not protected. So maybe the answer is to use Nicks process and nix the water all together??


I used a copper tube because it gave a good surface area to work with.

The only time water is important in my cells is when they're first made. The water in Elmer's glue allows the Epsom salt and salt substitute to combine, this combining makes for the real magic. You then must allow for the water to evaporate, this is why i say wait 12 or 24 hours.

Once the cell is dry, some cell can take up to a week to dry, than no more water is needed for it to run and at this point you can spray paint the cell to further protect it.

There is nothing special about the big blue cell, sorry to lead people on. Don't get me wrong its the most powerful cell i have made so far and runs my LCD clock and pulse motor just fine. The big blue cell is just Elmer's glue with Epsom salt and salt substitute mix together and placed on a copper tube wrapped with magnesium ribbon ( both metals separated by hot glue). The more metal you use the more amps you get. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 06, 2011, 05:01:52 AM
   Ib2:
  Ok, thanks for letting us know about the hot glue separating the two metals from a short circuit, very important point.
 I already have the brass rod ready made with an cloth separator between the rod and the aluminum wire wrapping, so, I'll just pour the regular salt/ glue mix on top of that, for now. I'll get your salt mix going soon as I can, but I'm far away from a grocery that carries the salt substitute, or pharmacy with Epsom.
 I was wondering about the separator layer as you had not mentioned it before, and I didn't know if it was going to work without it. Now I know...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 06, 2011, 11:12:08 AM
 I built two very small cells and I am getting great results. The cells are about 1 inch long and about 5/32's thick. There is very little mixture but I am still getting 1.16 volts each. This was a test to see if it is worth testing on a microscopic level. I believe the test warrants further testing at a microscopic level. The difference is my next testing will be with the use of plates insted of tubes and rods.
 Please note that my cells use no water or heat or any kind initial power to jump start them.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 06, 2011, 12:26:21 PM
I built two very small cells and I am getting great results. The cells are about 1 inch long and about 5/32's thick. There is very little mixture but I am still getting 1.16 volts each. This was a test to see if it is worth testing on a microscopic level. I believe the test warrants further testing at a microscopic level. The difference is my next testing will be with the use of plates insted of tubes and rods.
 Please note that my cells use no water or heat or any kind initial power to jump start them.

I would love to know the mixture.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 06, 2011, 01:32:47 PM
 Although the process works with plates I believe to make the best cell it will need to be round. This way the forces are centralized both electrical and physical. This will add to the toughness of the cells in both ways. But for testing purposes there is plenty of room for experimenting. Plates to me are harder to work with and since tubes or pipes are so readily available I'm gonna stick with those.

 I'll be heading to the hardware store soon to get the copper tube and magnesium ribbon<-if they have any.

 If not then maybe this site?? http://catalog.miniscience.com/catalog/metals/Magnesium.html

 Wow this site is awesome for high purity samples. They even have bismuth! Wow

 Ok back to the discussion. Try this information and see how you see the water issue... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_of_crystallization

 You know I have had a chance to start thinking about how water is just about everywhere in the universe. Even in space. This solvent you talk about is really the Aether. With water being a condensation of that solvent. Our views of energy have been skewed by our lust for money. You know we should have that same feeling twords living life first. It's funny how we forget that we are energy beings and since energy can never be destroyed, what does that say for our existence? we are like pupa stage in evolution and when this matter drops away we have learned that energy is eternal. Organization of that energy is a training thing over time. Out matter hold our energy into distinct patterns for so long that it trains the energy into patterns that hold even after this pupa stage dies.

 Now knowing that can you see how important water is? It is the condensate of the Universal Solvent we float in! It is the key to unlimited power and it is reusable to the nth degree. As long as you can contain it. I think you are right that you can never stop water from doing it's job unless you understand what water reacts to. I tried to show you that since the crystalline structure condenses around the water it literally traps the water inside via the static forces the crystalline structure provides. This water can move though. It has room to slide inside the structure. If you look at the studies presented earlier about the crystalline structure those were static representations. If we add movement to the lattice examples you would see that water can move one way or the other usually.

 There were experiments on this forum that talked about charging water with electrical stimulation. Well this is what we are doing with these batteries. think of it as a very organized bucket brigade. The flow is kept constant by the water charging, moving then discharging. Sometimes if the pull is too great on the water it will dissolve the structure and pass into the next cell. This is a bad thing! although I believe this process can heal as well. This is where higher currents come from unless you have more mass to handle the load. Like you have found out more mass = more power without stress damage.

 I think we need to get computer help to manage the power unit. Something that can control the process as we use it. An active control that manages the growth and health of these cells. If we computerize the environmental controls of the power unit we should get a better matrix to pull the energy we need from the Universal noise or waste product of all life in the Universe.

 We know these units are getting the power from the environment. Thats what the electrodes are for. We set up strings that are strummed by the Universe in between those electrodes and use half that power. Remember this is a diode.

 When John B talks about the oxide layer he is merely saying that we form a barrier of static potential on the metal and remember that the water responds to static potentials. This structure is only as strong as the metals potential. This is based on surface area and the geometry of the structure that forms on the metal. Like in electrolytic caps the oxide layer can self heal via the oxygen in the water inside of the crystal. Yes this can damage the electrode but not to a great extent if we manage the process and the oxygen can be replaced as well.

 These "batteries" (ACTIVE Diodes) will need a controlled environment to work to the fullest extent. An environment that is self contained and recycling. Also I believe that we will only be able to get a certain amount of energy out of a square foot of this process. So batteries will be bulky but super powerful at that point. I guess my best example would be the warp core on the StarTrek series. The core is pretty big and I think we are gonna need that kind of scale to get the power we need. The power is not voltage based but it is current based. Low voltage but super high current that we can convert to any potential value by induction coils or pulse circuits.

 I have a nagging suspicion that these diodes would respond to an external electric field like an exciter while they are running. Maybe like a resonate loop device. Get the right frequency and they go into overdrive. I have asked this before but has anyone exposed these diodes to the exciter fields? Has anyone looked at the diodes power on a scope to see if there is anything that we can determine about the frequency they put out?

 Has anyone tried Bismuth instead of magnesium or copper? That science place has 99.99% pure pellets for sale 1 pound for 35 dollars... Hmmm... http://shop.miniscience.com/navigation/detail.asp?id=BIPELL
 The desciption says the more the magnetic field it gets the higher the resistance of the metal. I think a resistance to this stuff would bring the pressure way high then all you would need to do is pulse the load from the resistance. Like a bypass to the resistance. My thinking is that if we have a minute flow it is still a flow and it biases the crystals on. As long as they flow they are capable of very high spurts in a very quick amount of time. John B showed that they are capable of huge bursts. I think others have said that they grow stronger with a load on them. Store them with resistors and they grow internally. Use them and they grow even more because they have to pull more in to replace what you use, charge wise.

 I wonder what would happen if we built these like silicon, with masking and nano fab techniques?????
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 06, 2011, 04:24:48 PM
  The analogy of the cells being similar to an electrolytic capacitor is valid.
The reason these celld, as well as capacitors, diodes, red and infrared leds, and possibly other components can produce a voltage and current as well, is all due to the same reason. Which is external to the cells, is due to the field energies created by the vortex of this planet, which is a sub vortex of the Master Vortex of our Solar System, which is also in another bigger vortex yet. It is these field energies we need to harvest, and not the galvanic self destructing reaction.
   There is nothing in heaven or Earth that can produce an output perpetually without a perpetual input. That input is the Aether, which the capacitor and other component mentioned are able to use and separate into a positive and negative pole that we call a dipole. That is the working principal of these cells. The degree that they can conduct this input, is determined not just by the electronegative ratings of the metals, or carbon, but also on the ion concentration and ion flux rate and ability of the electrolytic materials.
  When we use water, salts, acid, or alkaline substances we are altering the cells ability to transfer that Aether fed input, and it becomes something else, the galvanic reaction. 
  Weather semiconductors have a place in these cells or not is to be determined, in time. I feel that they will allow us to further improve the output, in time.
   The amount of voltage that a non-galvanic cell can produce up to now has been very limited, to just a few miliamps, as compare to regular batteries. Even an AA battery can produce 3 amps. which would take many of our non galvanic cells to to produce or replicate that output.
But the proof of the ability of our cells to convert Aether into usable power, is seen in there ability to not ever need a charge and that they never totally discharge. This ability is not seen in a regular battery, as we all know. Point being that these are not batteries and are not galvanic, even though the galvanic reaction can play a role if liquids or even air (oxygen) are present.
  I hope that I'm not boring anyone.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 06, 2011, 06:13:27 PM
I would love to know the mixture.

 It's just Epson salt, salt substitute and Elmers glue. I would have used Alum but you have to heat it and I dont want to build any cells you need to add excessive energy to. Atleast not yet.
 I am a really busy person with 4 differnt business's I run. Two of which are 24 hour towing companys. I had seen the results you were all getting so I thought I would see for myself since it was simple and I found it does work. I will try and start devoting some time to this trying different mixtures and different cell materials but I just can't commit much time to it at this time. John had said that the smaller the cell, the better and that is why I will be working with the smallest I can build.
 Keep up the good work and note that I appluad you for what you have done thus far.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 06, 2011, 06:19:59 PM
 I forgot to mention that I used 5/32's aluminum tube and a copper rod that I picked up at Hobby Lobby.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 06, 2011, 10:55:04 PM
In my research I have found many great tutorials on doping and semiconductors. I wanted to put them in all one place for easy looking up.

 Doping: http://www.tpub.com/neets/book7/24e.htm
 Bismuth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 07, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
I've got some good news and I got some bad news about the big blue Crystal glue cell i've made.

The good news is that the big blue is the best, most powerful cell i have made and it still is powering my LCD clock like its nothing.

The bad news is the meter I was using in the video to show the amps is crap. I've retested all my cells with a new meter and found that the meter I was using gave false amp readings but the volt readings were correct. This really sucks and I feel embarrassed. Even though the Big blue cell is the best output of any cell I've made so far I still feel like I've taken a step back. The latest video said that the big blue cell was at .400 amps resting but my new amp meter is says its at .400mA resting. All i have to say now is to not buy Ideal multi-meters because they're crap.

Sorry If i've gotten anyone's hopes up. But the good news is the big blue cell is still the most powerful cell i've made and powers a pulse motor and LCD clock just fine. I will be making a even bigger one and will also make a how to video to show whats the best way to make the cells.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 07, 2011, 02:54:46 PM
 I was thinking something didn't sound right with your amp readings. The .400 mA sounds about right. In my research, I find that to be about the average which still isn't bad especially when you get about the same with smaller cells. That is why I am focussing on building the smallest cells I can for compact reasons when so many are tied together to get some real power.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 07, 2011, 04:35:21 PM
   @ Ib2:
  Thanks for the explanation of the high meter readings. I was trying to get a grasp on what was happening, and scratching my head.
  My meter a small analog meter has also seen better days. And I'll have to replace it also
 So, for now I can't tell what my version of your last blue cell will read.
But so far is is not outputting much over one volt and maybe 10 to 20 mAs.
 It was made on a 1/4 in brass rod, aluminum wire wrapped around it, with glue and table salt as the electrolyte. The cell has been on and lighting two leds all night, it is connected along with some of my carbon/ galvanized iron tube cells that uses wood carbon/quartz electrolyte inside, with a thick copper spiral as the anode. So far the blue type cell, which I'll call the my glue/salt cell from now on, is working and has the advantage of now needing to be watered to run, but is not as strong as the other cells, that use no water or salts. 
  Although the new glue/salt cell does work, it is not putting out more than when I wet the cloth separator is has between the metal layers, before, when taking readings before putting the glue on the outside of the cell. It is now covered with the salt/glue mix, and still drying a bit more, now about three days old today.
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 07, 2011, 04:52:51 PM
NickZ,

When you talk about the glue-salt cells are talking about a glue cell that has table salt or a glue cell that has Epsom salt and salt substitute? A cell containing table salt vs a cell containing Epsom salt and salt substitute are two very different cells. A cell that only has table salt in it makes for a very weak cell, usually gives under 600mV when using copper and magnesium and amp readings in the pico-amp range. A cell that has salt substitute and Epsom salt gives a voltage above 1.300 volts and a amp reading in the mico-amp rage.

What are the cells you said you make that don't need water or salt, where can i get info on them so i can build one?

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 07, 2011, 05:59:09 PM
   @ Steve:
   As I've mentioned many times, I am not using Epsom, or salt substitute because I can't find them where I live. At least not yet, as I am far from civilization and cities. Nor are those products commonly used much here.
   My version of your glue cell had been already made before, and has been tested before this last test. Before my meter died.
  I understand that you have not gotten good results from using just table salt.  As I've also explained my other version of the glue blob cell is still working after some months now, using just glue and table salt, and some other cells as well. Even my E-poxy table salt cells works, even though some people like B_rads did not get his E-poxy cell working.
   I realize that I am not following your formula, but the main reason that I even made it is to test the encasement of the glue/salt mix with the protective glue, to see how well that will work out.  I find that even though I add a second coat of glue, the salt leaches right through it too. So, I'll wait some days to place a third coat of just glue on top. This is to avoid the cell absorbing additional water like a sponge. Humidity here is about 85%, and higher sometimes. So, your conditions compared to mine can be  totally different.  As you've asked me to follow up on the performance of the cell that I've made, I am relaying what I find, even though I have no meter working at this time, and am using a different set up. This is only a test.
  If you really want to make some of the Quartz/Carbon cells as I've made, you can watch my video. And replace the battery materials that were used before with B.B.Q charcoal, and pencil leads.  As I don't recommend that anyone open the old batteries, at all. Even though I still get good results from those cells still.
  I am still just playing with this design to see what can be done without any water, salts, alkaline, bleach, doping, or heat, etz... And as there are many types of carbon as well as quartz, and different carbon rods, or copper electrode design, it takes time to test the different options.  As this type of cell is not galvanic they don't normally output as much as the one that are. So, I make them bigger to compensate for this.
  One thing that I can say is that if the carbon that you decide to use does not conduct well, it won't work in these cells. 

  My first and only video:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIx8qYgZCP8
                                                                           NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 07, 2011, 06:25:34 PM
  Just wanted to clear up an errror that I made in saying the the salt/glue cell is needing water to run. That should read: Does NOT need any additional water to run. Sorry 'bout that, I didn't want any confusion there.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 07, 2011, 06:35:29 PM
  Just wanted to clear up an errror that I made in saying the the salt/glue cell is needing water to run. That should read: Does NOT need any additional water to run. Sorry 'bout that, I didn't want any confusion there.


Ohh, glad you clear that up. Thats why I was concern about the salt vs Epsom salt and salt substitute thing because I know my cell don't need water. I thought you were using water to get power and it didn't sound right, glad you posted this. I've made the glue and salt cell before and got under a volt from it and it still has voltage on it even though its over 2 months old now. What metal you use is very important too. I use to use copper and aluminum on a glue-table salt cell but it gave little power so i stop working with it until i got magnesium ribbon which helped out a lot. I still have a original glue-table salt cell that uses copper and aluminum that was created on 5-15-11 and it still gives some voltage.

I'm glad to see you working on the glue-table salt cell. Its amazing to see these cells work without adding water to them. The glue-table salt cell should last for a good bit of time so long as you don't get the metals wet.  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 07, 2011, 06:49:57 PM
@IB Sorry to hear about your meter but I too have lost functioning of the amp portion of mine. Mine is a Cen-Tech meter and is rather cheap version. Digital meters are terrible for these experiments like John said. I have an old analog that I am getting ready to use for these experiments.

 *update on my first battery/diode. Going great for the materials that I have chosen. Aluminum foil inside a plastic jar with a pencil lead(graphite). The readings are .8 volts initial then drops to .5 and holds there. The reason for the low reading is the mass of the aluminum is very small. When I do my next version I'll try an aluminum pipe with two kinds of electrodes.

I just picked up two different electrode materials to increase the mass of the center electrode. 5.6mm graphite leads and Real carbon sticks, not graphite or charcoal but real carbon. Oh and I got Elmer's glue too to replicate IB's glue cells. Ok now for the metals. Magnesium might not be so easy to get but I'll have to order that online. Copper and aluminum should be very easy for me to get here so I should have them soon.

 Nick if you could go over your aluminum, carbon and quartz sand battery that would be great as I wanted to do one of those as well! What I mean is the current version.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 07, 2011, 08:45:07 PM
     I understand that you have not gotten good results from using just table salt.  As I've also explained my other version of the glue blob cell is still working after some months now, using just glue and table salt, and some other cells as well. Even my E-poxy table salt cells works, even though some people like B_rads did not get his E-poxy cell working.
 
Nick,
The solid, waterless mix that I tried was a casting resin (liquid plastic) and this is a non-conductive binder.  In order for this to work, the binder needs to be conductive as the mix will be completely covered in the binder and the electrons need a way to escape the crystal lattice.  Elmer's Glue All is a pretty good conductor.  Any conductive material should work as long as it is not destructive to the metals.  For grins and giggles, put your mix in gelatin (or JELLO) and watch it go to work.  Super cell, but it does not last long as there is a good bit of water in the mix.  You might try making a paste with your conductive grease and see what happens.  The grease should prevent any water from entering or exiting the crystal lattice.
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 07, 2011, 09:37:23 PM
  B_rads:
  Thank you for explaining about the casting resin.  I have been trying to use dry electrolytes for a while now, as the water cells aren't of interest to me any more.  I have read some things about the E-poxy and was hoping that it would work as an electrolyte too. And would still like to consider it again, but it also is non-conductive, like the resin, although the table salt leaches thoughout it as it does with the glue. So, as time goes by, it works better and better.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 07, 2011, 11:04:01 PM
 I did some experiments with water and graphite and a solid aluminum handle of an exacto knife. When I filled the little tupperware bowl with water the voltage peeked at 1.09 volts. when I started to add the borax an interesting thing happened. The borax bloomed into little puffy globs about 1mm in size. These blobs started to press together in a layered fashion that you could see the little interfaces in between. This is how this is working I am thinking. Alum reacted to the Borax gel and even more blobs appeared. Stirring the mix made the blobs smaller and more even in size. The salt substitute I believe is the mode of transfer and that sits in between these blobs and forms a network from what I have been seeing.

 When these blobs dry out thats where the magic is. As the crystals form in the spaces between the blobs the blobs gel even further and solidify around the network bringing it tighter into planes of conduction. This is facilitated by the water in setting up the substances. All this was done cold. but the fact remains that even without anything the water is the initial transporter of conduction. No matter where in the water I put the electrodes it was constant 1.09 volts before the adding of anything. So selecting the right materials before making the device is absolutely imperative to the potential of the device from the start.

 Somewhere in this process the mode of conduction swaps from bulk water to crystalline conduction. Think of it like this: Bulk water reduces and crystalline water takes over after the crystals form. Apparently this is the reason for polarity swaps some have reported. Bumping the cell after it has dried sufficiently causes it to align to it's bumped direction of flow.

 Now this is not what happens in the case of Nick's cell. Since nick's cell is dry from the beginning there is another process happening. That process is more piezoelectric with the interlacing layers forming very sensitive receiver of the medium we float in. Everything vibrates because of that medium and this cell takes advantage of that vibration.

 These two processes are not unlike, They are two examples of how to take the minute vibrations of the medium and convert them into energy. The first cell is the same process but the cell uses Flubber to catch the vibrations and apply them to the crystals. You might think the glue cells are hard but I did a test using elmers and borax makes it into a rubbery mass. The heat is used to fuse the crystalline material and when the heat leeches out of the flubber and crystal mixture it solidifies both flubber and crystal. While this event is happening proper use can grow the unit stronger as it leeches the rest of the heat out of the unit.

 Let me know what you think?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 08, 2011, 01:31:40 AM
  It may be that the process that the quartz/carbon cell works by is something like piezoelectric effect, as when I press the electrolyte down hard the voltage goes up and the led gets brighter. This could also be from better conduction, when further compacted, or from the quartz.  But the main thing is to the find the right combination that will give the best output. I still find the main problem is the impedance after a while. As this may still be caused by the accumulation of hydrogen ions onto the anodes restricting their flow. Different electrolyte materials may help along with the possible addition of Carbonate to the mix.
 
  For those that would like to try my type of dry cells, I recommend first looking for the best carbon to use, one with the least resistance levels, as I have not have a chance to try different sources, so I can't recommend much as far as that goes.  Aquarium charcoal or briquettes have worked for others. Although it may need something more to make it conduct better as they are very dry.  I find that compacting the carbon firmly into a big  capacitor can helps to overcome that. The bigger the can the better.
  Applying the conductive grease  on the inside of the aluminum cans as well as the copper anodes will not only help to conduct, but will prevent oxidation as well. As just air by itself can oxidize metals, like copper, magnesium, or aluminum, and is why I use carbon, where possible,instead. Remember to seal the cells with clear 5 minute E-poxy as exposure to air may still affect any metals.

  B-rads:  Using carbon or graphite powder to make a paste along with the conductive grease may make a usable electrolyte, it's worth a try also. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 08, 2011, 02:01:15 AM
 Here is a video of my small crystal cells. Please note that I said before that I was getting 1v each but I was using the wrong setting. They are actaully .5v

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-3XcK8oNKE
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 08, 2011, 03:42:26 AM
Here is a video of my small crystal cells. Please note that I said before that I was getting 1v each but I was using the wrong setting. They are actaully .5v

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-3XcK8oNKE

 .5 comes from using copper. Try using graphite. I got 1 volt from graphite and aluminum.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 08, 2011, 04:47:20 AM
.5 comes from using copper. Try using graphite. I got 1 volt from graphite and aluminum.
Check around the thrift stores.  Occasionally you can find silver ware (sterling silver) quite cheaply.  Sterling silver is usually 92% silver or better.  Other than gold or pure silver, this is about the best cathode you can find.  Do not use sodium chloride (table salt) with  this and you will be very happy with the results. :)
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 08, 2011, 01:23:56 PM
When I get my paycheck and bills payed off I'm going to be making a even bigger crystal cell. I've figured out a much more simpler way to make the big cells and will also be making a video of the simple way to build these big cells. The short term goal of mine is to make this big cell so that it will be able to charge a super capacitor then I will run my load off of the super capacitor.

I strongly feel that we should not run our load directly off the crystal cells but instead have the cells charge capacitors. I know this seems a bit in the way but you get strange effects when doing this. Even if you have a weak cell you can charge a capacitor and have the capacitor run a more powerful load. The capacitor allows you to convert time into energy. By this I mean a cell takes one minute to charge a capacitor but the cap can run a load for 30 seconds, you convert time to due useful work but in a shorter time. Also capacitor doesn't require us to balance our loads with the cells, the capacitor is a self balancing storage device and when you remove the cell when the cap is full you can power and load you want.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 08, 2011, 02:17:37 PM
 Damit IB I would have never thought of that process. That is the absolute best way to do this I am guessing.

 Also on the subject of silver another great idea. Silver plated carbon or copper even! Think of it like a superfine filter. The silver has it's own particle size and it's own water of crystallization that will form around it! The density change from carbon particle size to silver has it's own unique pattern. This was done on the Power tube that Gray had used.

Gold plating might give the best reaction but finding the crystal structure might be a wee bit hard. On the other hand this matterial we are using Borax might facilitate more charge because the matter of gold is super fine. This would give more resolution per crystal lattice giving an increase in the amplifying effect. This might be the process that the Egyptians used in their Bagdad batteries. I don't think they were using traditional acids to run them. What if they were using sand + salts or crystalline matter and gold plated carbon in the batteries.

 I am waiting impatiently to start testing the Bismuth metal in this process. This might open this battery up power wise because it should become a transducer of waste magnetic fields as well. We broadcast tons of magnetic fields into the air all around us.

 I still want to know if anyone has exposed one of these batteries to a high voltage electric field like the exciter fields. This way we would be amplifying the made field. John B has shown that the penny type crystal batteries respond slightly to siesmic events and hugely to electrical events like an electrical storm! Someone please fire up an exciter and see the effect of this on the batteries/diodes. This process should have a capacitor that we can run other devices from or even the exciter itself. Even a low field intensity should produce tons of effects and amplify the swing of the signal these diodes tune to. Resonance should tune to the total resistance of the setup and the cap or caps should be selected based on total resistance of the setup via normal RLC calculations.

 At some point we are gonna have to start being exact with our formulas and methods. Not just a video of the process it took to make it but a detailed instruction to replicate our findings.

 I saw the video of John B showing the method of making a dual gated valve! This is the right method I am thinking to make these dual mode diodes/batteries. I will be starting the process to make one of these DGD. Dual Gated Diode. heh John just happens to make a thin film version. Not so much a battery then. When you have more internal structure or layers it starts to act like a Dual Gated Battery or DGB.

 I am wondering if we could do a process of carbon/silver plating/oxide layer/silver plating/oxide layer/silver plating/oxide layer. Would this be possible and would this build in a capacitance so to speak?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 08, 2011, 03:09:14 PM
 My ultimate goal is to use a Joule thief, a bedini curcuit with timer and large coils between the load and cells.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 08, 2011, 04:14:10 PM
My ultimate goal is to use a Joule thief, a bedini curcuit with timer and large coils between the load and cells.

 How about some old Tesla work like this: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7679.msg304873#new ???

 I'm  trusting that our tech will meld with this technology. Since our system will present a potential for this other system to amplify the output of our system and convert it to usable power based on our current system of electronics and electricity. Listen to the power requirements they need. Very little current and moderate voltage at 10 Volts. This should be attainable by our system and will extend it's power conversion to the max for very little cost that our diode/battery will provide.

 We got to understand that with the right fulcrum we can move tons of this medium we float in. We have established that there is an energy that we can detect with minute capabilities or resolution. Now it's time to learn just how much this small flow can amplify. This other system that is partly based off of Tesla's rotating field theory is a way to split off a charge through induction without feeding back to the source potential. The more efficient we get this to work the bigger movement we can cause from a small source. Think of this as a non-reflecting inductive diode! In one direction it flows but constricting space through the structure of the crystals. The reflecting bounce back is spread out laterally in a plane 90 degrees from the pyramidal base. So it squirts out in 90 degree disk from the individual crystalline structure defusing by the collisions with other pyramidal crystals. Ok try it this way. Look at the Great Pyramids. the planet has a potential inside of it. We form a mass to draw the potential in a constrictive method to the tip of the pyramid, raising the potential at the tip. This attracts the medium in a downward fashion because of the higher potential. The medium actually has a potential of it's own. This causes the flow downward and outward. When other Pyramids are around the bigger one they generate huge amounts of potential from that flow the bigger one caused. Also this flow can energize water because water is only condensed medium. Hence the walls around the bigger pyramids. When one adds a larger potential still in the pyramid you can stimulate great flows of the medium to become more pressurized or higher density increasing the mediums ability to do what it does.

 Our diodes work in the very same way except that we are using huge masses of aligned pyramids to control the separation of charges by 90 degrees, which would separate effectively the charges and reaction of the medium to the charges. As our device gets stronger the other technology gets stronger as well. We have two parts of the technology to harness the medium we float in and we should put them together now while we have time.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 08, 2011, 06:26:26 PM
I have removed the short on the Elmer's glue, Salt substitute, Epsom salt cell. This cell has been shorted out since 8-12-11 and today is 11-8-11. I left the cell un-shorted over night so that it could recharge itself. The voltage on the cell is 1.404 Volts and the amps is 2 micro-amps. This is pretty good readings when you consider this cell has been shorted out for almost 3 months now and it only required one night to recharge back to this voltage. This shorted out cell is a small test cell to see how long the cell would last when given a short and its exceeded my expectations.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 08, 2011, 09:52:10 PM
 I now have 3 cells all different in design. The first is a borax alum and salt substitute in a cup with aluminum and graphite. The second is my attempt at IB's glue cell. Layer of glue then borax alum and salt substitute on a flat piece of aluminum with a graphite pencil lead. The third is another IB cell with just glue epsom salt and salt substitute.

 All three together producing in series 2.5 volts and running a white led!!!!

 Got one more glue cell to go and I should have some nice light. The on thing I found out IB is that when using graphite I just put borax first and quickly put the lead in before it starts to harden then add the rest. The epsom salt cells was a bit easier but the salt started sucking the water from the glue way to fast. I might have to mix up the espsom salts and salt substitute first then add it. I cooked both cells and it turned out well. The only thing is I have the lead and the foil and use the foil as negative and the lead as positive. No corrosion yet still shinny. I'll be doing a video once I get the last cell made then it is off to the jewel thief realm. or even just a pulsed led from the batteries themselves. no high voltage needed.

 *Note* joule thief wrecked the batteries. something went wrong. had to add the wet cell i had to rebuild the voltage. total voltage now is 3.7 volts resting. when running the led it settles at 2.6-2.62 volts. I have no idea what went wrong but the joule thief didn't work to well the way i set it up. I had it shorting out the battery and the led was across the collector and emitter. when I ran it before i had it hooked up the right way that joule thiefs run at and it ran ok but I tried the non standard way and it ate some of the cells voltage. I'm back to running plain Jane and it is holding up.

 I'm gonna leave the batteries over night to rebuild with a cap across it.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 09, 2011, 02:42:15 PM
The Elmer's glue, salt substitute and Epsom salt cell that I have had shorted out for almost 3 months now is still recharging itself back to normal since the short has been removed. Its now day two without the short and the cell is at 1.470 volts @ 6 micro-amps. This is a amazing, this cell has been shorted out for a long time but yet its regaining its voltage and amps. In-fact its at a higher voltage than it started with when it was made, the starting voltage was 1.412. If shorting the cell out for 3 months doesn't kill it than what will?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 09, 2011, 03:03:35 PM
 Any signs of deteriation?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 09, 2011, 03:17:15 PM
Any signs of deteriation?

Both metals show no corrosion under the glue but since the both metals are exposed to the air the copper has a oxide layer near the glue but the magnesium shows no oxide and looks like new. The oxide layer is due to the moisture in the air and this is why I spray paint all new cells. Since the glue dries clear i can see that the metals under the glue still look like new and the power bouncing back confirms the metals are fine. You would expect the copper to build a oxide layer because the statue of liberty has a oxide layer on it because its not protected from the moisture in the air.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 09, 2011, 05:44:36 PM
    Guys:
   As far as charging capacitors from these cells, I have tried that by placing the capacitor in parallel with the cells. I did not really notice anything worth mentioning. As the regular electrolytic capacitors don't maintain a charge for long once connected to a circuit or an led.
   I've also tried connecting the cells to rechargeable AA batteries as well as lithium button cells. The cells will charge a battery that previously would not light a joule thief any more, or register any voltage, on my analog meter. The AA battery will charge to the same voltage and current level that the cells output. But, the best way to do this, is to to have several cells in series, so that you are charging with two or three times the voltage of the battery that you want to charge. The problem is that there is hardly any current output from these cells, until now, so, Ib, try it now with your Blue cell and see what happens, as it does show some 400 mA or so. and it might work fine to charge a battery, or capacitor. Two or three of those cells connected in series would be better though, as that way you can light an led.  I do not remove the capacitor from the connected cells to test the output, but leave it on instead, but you can try it both ways.
 
   Below is a picture of my new Brass/Aluminum table salt glue cell. Looks like a hot dog on a stick. It is fairly dry now, and has stopped sweating water out. I'll place another coat of glue over it in a few more days. 
  I'll try to make a video soon, if my camara battery holds out, as it has bulged and is not working as it should.
  I want to show you guys how a ONE WIRE connection from my cement cells to an led/transistor combination will light an led. This is to show that these cells do work by taking in charge from the air, and can be more than just galvanic.   I think this is similar the Dr. Stifflers no input circuit, that will light some light leds using no additional input. Power out of thin air!
I am still working on making the leds light up even stronger.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 09, 2011, 05:47:03 PM
*Note* joule thief wrecked the batteries. something went wrong. had to add the wet cell i had to rebuild the voltage. total voltage now is 3.7 volts resting. when running the led it settles at 2.6-2.62 volts. I have no idea what went wrong but the joule thief didn't work to well the way i set it up. I had it shorting out the battery and the led was across the collector and emitter. when I ran it before i had it hooked up the right way that joule thiefs run at and it ran ok but I tried the non standard way and it ate some of the cells voltage. I'm back to running plain Jane and it is holding up.

I have worked with Ib’s “Glue” and “Stove Top Crystal Cells” for a while now and am a believer in this setup.  Ib is correct in stating that these cells should dump their power into a cap.  I have replicated Lidmotor’s “Penny Joule Thief” and the “Pancake Coil Steel Wire Joule Thief”.  Both of these circuits dump the power into the cap prior to running the circuit.  See this video of the Pancake circuit and a fully encased glue cell.  Encasing the cell is an idea presented by NickZ and has worked extremely well for me.  This video was posted on Aug 3 and the cell is still fully functional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWgmaHcPblw
This next video shows Ib’s stove top crystal cell encased in plastic working on the Penny Circuit and this was posted on Sept 20.  This cell has been powering the circuit non-stop since.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhmQBpUld7U
This last video was posted more for fun than anything else, but does show the remarkably small amount of power required to run this circuit.  Notice when I connect the circuit, the cap must fill before the circuit will start.  If the cap runs to low on power, the circuit will stop and wait for enough power to start again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2-OHF1iCsI
If you can match the cell to the circuit, these cells seemingly will run for a very long time.  Since replicating these cells and powering those circuits, I have yet to have one fail.  Go to lidmotor’s youtube channel and he gives you the schematic for both circuits.
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 09, 2011, 06:47:58 PM
 Let me ask a very good question??? Why don't we piggy back this onto a rechargeable cell. That way when it is not in use it can maintain the battery charge level when not in use!!! Yeah it won't charge like a regular setup but it will charge the battery like in the Bedini style. We could deign this in thin film style and just wrap it around a rechargeable battery with clips designed to attach to each end without interfering with normal battery usage.

 Oh another thought. Has anyone tried to make it like the electrolytic ones? I saw Bedini doing a copper/copper oxide/paper insulator/galena/magnesium dual gate diode. Why not do it on thin sheets of the metals treated to have very nice layers of copper oxide and galena then roll it up with toilet paper in between. The only problem is what to use as the solvent doping. Water and something else (alum? or Borax?).

 Hey Nick in your carbon aluminum and quartz battery have you ever mixed a batch of quarts and carbon? You should mill it in an oxidized aluminum bowl. you might want to add some oxidized aluminum powder as well. It will grind that carbon soo fine in powder size. The alumina oxides are what they use for polishing and cutting tools. Mixing the quartz in there evenly would be the best thing to try. Compress it and it should fly, try it but I'm not sure about compression.

"Aluminium oxide is widely used in the fabrication of superconducting devices, particularly single electron transistors and superconducting quantum interference devices (SQUID), where it is used to form highly resistive quantum tunneling barriers."

 Whats your process in layering the carbon and quarts? Could you make a side view cutaway of the cap case you use and the layers and how they are done?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 09, 2011, 07:30:25 PM
I have worked with Ib’s “Glue” and “Stove Top Crystal Cells” for a while now and am a believer in this setup.  Ib is correct in stating that these cells should dump their power into a cap.  I have replicated Lidmotor’s “Penny Joule Thief” and the “Pancake Coil Steel Wire Joule Thief”.  Both of these circuits dump the power into the cap prior to running the circuit.  See this video of the Pancake circuit and a fully encased glue cell.  Encasing the cell is an idea presented by NickZ and has worked extremely well for me.  This video was posted on Aug 3 and the cell is still fully functional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWgmaHcPblw
This next video shows Ib’s stove top crystal cell encased in plastic working on the Penny Circuit and this was posted on Sept 20.  This cell has been powering the circuit non-stop since.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhmQBpUld7U
This last video was posted more for fun than anything else, but does show the remarkably small amount of power required to run this circuit.  Notice when I connect the circuit, the cap must fill before the circuit will start.  If the cap runs to low on power, the circuit will stop and wait for enough power to start again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2-OHF1iCsI
If you can match the cell to the circuit, these cells seemingly will run for a very long time.  Since replicating these cells and powering those circuits, I have yet to have one fail.  Go to lidmotor’s youtube channel and he gives you the schematic for both circuits.
Brad S



Thank you Brads, glad to see the cells still work for you and thank you for taking the time to make them.

 :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 09, 2011, 08:02:11 PM
  @ All:
   I have tried the method mentioned by Brad of placing the capacitor in parallel with the cell and the Jtc.  I did not really notice any difference, but my circuits don't blink, they are on steady. I don't see any point in a blinking light, and wonder why that type circuits causes the led to blink, I suppose that is it due to their very low current output, of only a few mA. My Hartley circuits will run like that forever, when using a dead AA battery.
  The circuit being shown by John and Chuck lighting 8 leds gives some hope that it is possible to achieve some usable light, even when using only one cell.   If Ib's Blue cell is connected in the same way it should work even better, as it has twice the current output.
 John's circuit is going from 250 mA to only 7 mA under load, less than 1/10 starting voltage, then goes up to 22 mA. and maintains. Still less than 1/10 of the starting output level. So, he is not following his own advice of only drawing 1/2 of the starting current.  Although I'm glad to see it, the question is will the cell maintain at those levels, or not?  Time will tell, as the draw from 8 leds,  is not the same as the draw from only one led.  They are not full brightness in any case, and if the pot was on least resistance we'd probably see the lights go out after a minute or so.  But, don't get me wrong, that is the best we've seen yet, but I feel that we still have a long ways to go...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 09, 2011, 08:16:42 PM
It is honestly hard for me to get behind John Bedini's carbonate cell. As lidmotor has shown the carbonate cell needs water to run and its the water that gives the cell its power. I feel we need to stay away from water, the best proof to stay away from water is to take magnesium ribbon and stick it in a cup of distilled water and watch it get eaten by the water within weeks. John won't see the corrosion as quick because he's using only drops of water and combine that with big magnesium cup and copper pipe and you have a cell that will run on water for a long time without showing corrosion. This is also why i build small cells, the small cells get to the point quicker and show if the bigger cell will corrode or not. But there is that if that i must not ignore since john has not given the full details of the cell out yet and he could have figured it out to where the metals don't corrode.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 09, 2011, 08:33:08 PM
  For anyone interested in making the quartz/carbon cells, the process is not rocket science, and that is why I like it compared to all the doping and chemicals involved with some of the other cells. Besides the cost... zilch.
   Just pulverize the quartz, and carbon, fill the capacitor can in layers, about 6 layers, and compress it together as much as possible. The carpenter pencil leads work better than the thin regular pencils leads, as those can and do break, although they do work very well.  I have used the conductive grease on the inside of the capacitor can, as well as on any external connection. Be sure to test the conductivity of the carbon, or it's all a waist of time.
  Try it, you'll like it...  they can be made in just a few minutes, and will work immediately.  If you do, try to make 4 of them, and see how well they can they can light an led, no oscillator needed.  And Ib, they use no water, ever.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 09, 2011, 08:53:01 PM
I have used the conductive grease on the inside of the capacitor can, as well as on any external connection.



What is this conductive grease? Is it the electrolyte in the capacitor or are you adding something like WD-40?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 09, 2011, 09:20:38 PM
It is honestly hard for me to get behind John Bedini's carbonate cell. As lidmotor has shown the carbonate cell needs water to run and its the water that gives the cell its power. I feel we need to stay away from water, the best proof to stay away from water is to take magnesium ribbon and stick it in a cup of distilled water and watch it get eaten by the water within weeks. John won't see the corrosion as quick because he's using only drops of water and combine that with big magnesium cup and copper pipe and you have a cell that will run on water for a long time without showing corrosion. This is also why i build small cells, the small cells get to the point quicker and show if the bigger cell will corrode or not. But there is that if that i must not ignore since john has not given the full details of the cell out yet and he could have figured it out to where the metals don't corrode.

Ib;

I agree, John has not given full details of his cells, and the clues that he has dropped I find some inconsistancies.  I do hope though that he has worked out a way around the issues.  I suggest those interested should study up on the general term "chemical reactions" and you will find that to initiate this reaction you typically change the structure of the original materials.  Sometimes these processes can be reversed, but usually take an external force such as heat, pressure, or electricity to initiate and complete the process.  Think lead acid battery!

There is a way to isolate the galvanic action between the metals using organic materials without sacrificing the metals.  This comes with the loss of the materials between the metals.  Sort of like NickZ has referenced before.  Create chaos between the metals, and let the metals serve as antennas to collect the electrons.  This is a method I am currently involved in and very happy with my results to this point, able to extract impressive energy with ridiculus cheap materials. 

NickZ:

I would like to try and build your cell.  Can I use beach sand or would I need larger quartz crystals to crush.

Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 09, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
  Brad:
   That is a good question,  I had thought the same thing. As sand is mostly quartz, and iron, but with some other impurities as well. Beach sand will need to be washed of the salt, or we may be back to dissolving the metals. Pool filter sand is also mostly quartz, and can be used too.  It is worth a try as it has worked very well in my cement cells, that are still working almost a year later.
  Some people charge the quartz powder or sand, with high voltage when  the cell is newly made. I have used pure quartz beach rocks ground up to a powder and have gotten fair result. But the quartz clear points have worked best so far. Tumbled quartz rocks or aquamarine crystals can be used and are cheap. 
  I would recommend not making tiny cells as this dry process works better with larger sized capacitor cans, or thicker aluminum pipe, that are similar to or even a bit taller than to Johns Mg carbonate cell cans.
I would also seal the whole cell as you've done before, or by just dipping them into resin. Not only the tops and bottoms but the whole cell, so they will last a long time.  Make several cells at once all the exact same way, so that they will work together to light your leds, or Jtc.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 10, 2011, 12:02:25 AM
   @ All:
   Conductive grease is something that I picked up from a friend that works with the Electric Power Co. here. They use is to protect the exposed copper and aluminum metal connectors as well as to help the contact points to conduct better.
There is also Marine Dielectic Grease, but just make sure that it conducts instead of being a non-conductor. I do recommend using this type of  grease, as it helped my old capacitor cell that was made in March to regain its original 50 mA output.

 Brad: BTW the carbon crystal cells may not last a lifetime, but you won't need to hold them as long. Very informative and useful video you made.      We need to get past the idea and use of galvanics in order to get to where we say that we want to go.  Your video helps to prove the point.
 
  I think that the combination of using our cells in conjunction with circuits like this one from the "Doc", may be the way to go. He is one amazing guy, although a little hard to get to know, and very strict with some people, to deal with.
   Check this out, the Doc's Infinity Light, one weeks running with only a fraction of a volt consumed. I hope that I got the it right, or he'll correct me... again...
http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr#p/u/32/UGbUORfqRsc

  Lasersaber's newest project, another great example:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glRuwV9IlaY&NR=1
 
   Ib:  I would highly recommend using Lasersabers circuit as he is lighting 200 watts of leds, using only 13v and 200 mA. Just use a regular toroid instead, or the ones from crt Tv yokes.  I have made it using only 4 volts and it works great. I'll upload a pic or two soon...
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 10, 2011, 12:49:38 PM
My big Blue Crystal Glue cell has gone up in voltage here lately and it just so happens that the moon is 100% full right now.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 10, 2011, 02:01:39 PM
   @ All:
   Conductive grease is something that I picked up from a friend that works with the Electric Power Co. here. They use is to protect the exposed copper and aluminum metal connectors as well as to help the contact points to conduct better.
There is also Marine Dielectic Grease, but just make sure that it conducts instead of being a non-conductor. I do recommend using this type of  grease, as it helped my old capacitor cell that was made in March to regain its original 50 mA output.

 Brad: BTW the carbon crystal cells may not last a lifetime, but you won't need to hold them as long. Very informative and useful video you made.      We need to get past the idea and use of galvanics in order to get to where we say that we want to go.  Your video helps to prove the point.
 
  I think that the combination of using our cells in conjunction with circuits like this one from the "Doc", may be the way to go. He is one amazing guy, although a little hard to get to know, and very strict with some people, to deal with.
   Check this out, the Doc's Infinity Light, one weeks running with only a fraction of a volt consumed. I hope that I got the it right, or he'll correct me... again...
http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr#p/u/32/UGbUORfqRsc

  Lasersaber's newest project, another great example:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glRuwV9IlaY&NR=1
 
   Ib:  I would highly recommend using Lasersabers circuit as he is lighting 200 watts of leds, using only 13v and 200 mA. Just use a regular toroid instead, or the ones from crt Tv yokes.  I have made it using only 4 volts and it works great. I'll upload a pic or two soon...
 

 Nick have you tried any aluminum cup or just the cap cases. If it is the case then they used borax as the electrolyte and it created a nice thick oxide layer on the inside of the can. This layer is what the captret was all about. Even with the method we are using it works the exact same way. It only allows a charge to go in the caps shape one way. Then you are separating the charge into it's base components. The static portion is clinging to the crystalline layers. The current flows into the carbon and past the electrode out of the tube. Think of the can as a filter(matter pattern) that attracts flow with geometry. When working with atomic geometry these devices have a high ordering inside of them. Also think about what a wave guide is also.

 I have been thinking about making the open end constricted to see if it improves the voltage as well. Like in my fire hose analogy. Have you made them with differing layer of thicknesses? Like 6 in one and 12 in another?

 I also agree that other technologies will fit very well especially lasersabers and Doc's ideas. We need to change our methods of using energy to the most efficient.

 You know this reminds me of a layden jar with one way valves.

 @IB hey could you do a how to video of the blue cells please. A step by step video of you making the cell would be awesome. I don't think I'm building them right. Also if you anodize the aluminum it will induce voltage better. Just soak it in borax and water.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 10, 2011, 04:38:03 PM
  We have all seen that the Magnesium works much better than Aluminum, but I can't get that here, up to now. Brads last video is most convincing.
So, since I had several capacitor cans from the Captret project, I used them for this project instead. As I had no luck with the Captrets after months of playing with that idea. As the batteries all still discharged sooner or later. There is no oxide layer there, either, at least not in my devices.
I have also tried aluminum tube, as well as galvanized iron pipe.  I have not tried anodized aluminum, which I can obtain from window framing shops. but, don't assume it works until you try it, as galvanized pipe is also a layer, but it does not work as well as aluminum or mg, although it does work to a lesser degree.
The thicker the metal anodes the better they are able to STORE the charge.  Mass is important in my set up. You can make small cells and will  get some voltage,  but like Ib has found with his two wire cells, no current.
I don't think that these cell are charging and discharging with use. So, that Idea is not very valid in this case, as they are a perpertual output source, that tends to lose some output abilities in time, due to the oxidation factor, and hydrogen ion build up on the anodes, as I've explained many times now.

  With my set up you don't need the semiconductor system, at all. As there is no need to protect the metals from oxidation as a result of galvanics. Or play the pinball game that JB is mentioning. As Brad is also trying to show, in his own unique way. I don't buy it yet, as I can get power without the doping or chemicals, or semicoductor, as Ib has also shown. etz...  If they were getting AMPS and not mA I would tend to believe it, to a different degree.  You can get amps by using salts, and sealing the cells from the air, hermetically, and not using additional water. Lasersaber's cells outputs 2 amps from each cell. No semiconductor at work there, or needed to produce that much power, which no one has been able to replicate to that degree of output, yet.
  Marcus Reid cells were producing only a couple of mA.  So... does not convince me.  They are not telling all, either.  They are showing what they don't care about anymore, as they John, Reid, and Hutchinson, are working on better and stronger cells, and giving us the leftovers.  Which I'm also thankful for but...  That is only my Opinion, and could be totally wrong, although I doubt it.  As they are into the money, not like the Doc, who was offered $10,000 and turned it down, saying that he already has more money than he can spend. And it totally into the research and development aspect, and not the production, sales, and monetary gains.
  Please don't get me wrong, I am very thankful for any and all information concerning these cell, and understand that we all have to make a living at times. At least some of us. Although money is not where I'm coming from, even though I have nothing against it, but if we are really trying to better our understanding of useful devices, the monetary gains can and do hold us back, at times.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 10, 2011, 05:50:04 PM
  We have all seen that the Magnesium works much better than Aluminum, but I can't get that here, up to now. Brads last video is most convincing.
So, since I had several capacitor cans from the Captret project, I used them for this project instead. As I had no luck with the Captrets after months of playing with that idea. As the batteries all still discharged sooner or later. There is no oxide layer there, either, at least not in my devices.
I have also tried aluminum tube, as well as galvanized iron pipe.  I have not tried anodized aluminum, which I can obtain from window framing shops. but, don't assume it works until you try it, as galvanized pipe is also a layer, but it does not work as well as aluminum or mg, although it does work to a lesser degree.
The thicker the metal anodes the better they are able to STORE the charge.  Mass is important in my set up. You can make small cells and will  get some voltage,  but like Ib has found with his two wire cells, no current.
I don't think that these cell are charging and discharging with use. So, that Idea is not very valid in this case, as they are a perpertual output source, that tends to lose some output abilities in time, due to the oxidation factor, and hydrogen ion build up on the anodes, as I've explained many times now.

 My suggestion in making the carbon crystal batteries is that you should completely encase the crystal layers in carbon like little crystal disks and the flow of charges should flow past the crystal disks vibrating them causing a piezoelectric event. Think of a reed vibrating from air rushing by it. Get the flow right and you have resonance.

  With my set up you don't need the semiconductor system, at all. As there is no need to protect the metals from oxidation as a result of galvanics. Or play the pinball game that JB is mentioning. As Brad is also trying to show, in his own unique way. I don't buy it yet, as I can get power without the doping or chemicals, or semicoductor, as Ib has also shown. etz...  If they were getting AMPS and not mA I would tend to believe it, to a different degree.  You can get amps by using salts, and sealing the cells from the air, hermetically, and not using additional water. Lasersaber's cells outputs 2 amps from each cell. No semiconductor at work there, or needed to produce that much power, which no one has been able to replicate to that degree of output, yet.
  Marcus Reid cells were producing only a couple of mA.  So... does not convince me.  They are not telling all, either.  They are showing what they don't care about anymore, as they John, Reid, and Hutchinson, are working on better and stronger cells, and giving us the leftovers.  Which I'm also thankful for but...  That is only my Opinion, and could be totally wrong, although I doubt it.  As they are into the money, not like the Doc, who was offered $10,000 and turned it down, saying that he already has more money than he can spend. And it totally into the research and development aspect, and not the production, sales, and monetary gains.
  Please don't get me wrong, I am very thankful for any and all information concerning these cell, and understand that we all have to make a living at times. At least some of us. Although money is not where I'm coming from, even though I have nothing against it, but if we are really trying to better our understanding of useful devices, the monetary gains can and do hold us back, at times.

 I have a new cell that i made in a glass bottle. THICK Aluminum wire wrapped in a coil in the glass jar then treated with borax to form the oxide layer. then epsom salt and a touch of potassium (salt substitute) with a graphite electrode. I'll throw a pict of it soo. All that was boiled till the crystals disappeared and it is now cooling. Let me take a picture of it!

Oxides are the semiconductor. Even if you think you are not using it you are if aluminum is in the mix. Since you use the cap cans they have already been oxidated and the semiconductor layer is already there. even aluminum in the air has oxidated enough to produce a 4 nanometer layer on the aluminum.

 Here are the pictures. Sorry bout the size of these they are big!

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/100_0348.jpg

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/100_0347.jpg

 I too agree that magnesium is the best bang for the buck and will be using it instead of aluminum and use a copper outer electrode that has been oxidized or the other way around. With the aluminum can it's acting like a one way valve bringing in charges from the environment and conducting through the carbon. in that flow it is also vibrating the crystal layers adding to the charge on the center electrode giving it some added umph.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 10, 2011, 10:40:55 PM
  When I open a capacitor can, the inside of the cans are very shinny and protected by the oil that is inside that is used for that purpose, and are not oxidized at all. The outside of the cans are protected by a hermetically sealed plastic coating, and are also very shinny.  If there is oxidation there, I do not see it. You can check this out for yourself. And to further the make the point, the aluminum as well as the copper both conduct very well, both ways. Not so with the semiconductor layer, which is a non electrical conductor, and only allows ion flow to filter through it. But does not not allow electrical current through. 
  When using copper for the anodes I make sure the metal is shinny, and also add the conductive grease on it to prevent further oxidation. As in only a matter of a few hours the metals can start to corrode when exposed to the very humid salt filled air that is always present here next to the beach.
 
   I am not saying that there is no benefit to the semiconductor idea, as I am really hoping that that will be one of the ways of obtaining the higher output, that I'm not currently seeing now. But I would be more inclined to get behind it if there was more than just the same two volts or less, and some mA involved. As that can be obtained as Brad has shown by just holding the two metals, or by putting two metals in a glass of water.
   I am not saying this to counter any thoughts about the semiconductor idea, just adding my two cents.  As I could be wrong on this, and that the metals are acting as semiconductors even when they are conducting fine both ways, and are still very shinny,  but I doubt it.
 
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 10, 2011, 11:29:18 PM
  When I open a capacitor can, the inside of the cans are very shinny and protected by the oil that is inside that is used for that purpose, and are not oxidized at all. The outside of the cans are protected by a hermetically sealed plastic coating, and are also very shinny.  If there is oxidation there, I do not see it. You can check this out for yourself. And to further the make the point, the aluminum as well as the copper both conduct very well, both ways. Not so with the semiconductor layer, which is a non electrical conductor, and only allows ion flow to filter through it. But does not not allow electrical current through. 
  When using copper for the anodes I make sure the metal is shinny, and also add the conductive grease on it to prevent further oxidation. As in only a matter of a few hours the metals can start to corrode when exposed to the very humid salt filled air that is always present here next to the beach.
 
   I am not saying that there is no benefit to the semiconductor idea, as I am really hoping that that will be one of the ways of obtaining the higher output, that I'm not currently seeing now. But I would be more inclined to get behind it if there was more than just the same two volts or less, and some mA involved. As that can be obtained as Brad has shown by just holding the two metals, or by putting two metals in a glass of water.
   I am not saying this to counter any thoughts about the semiconductor idea, just adding my two cents.  As I could be wrong on this, and that the metals are acting as semiconductors even when they are conducting fine both ways, and are still very shinny,  but I doubt it.
 
 

 I understand Nick and my attempt at trying to improve the process didn't go over well at least you didn't see it as a suggestion. I was trying to make you see what little effect we were getting from the captret. These units do way beyond what the captret do.

 The oxide layer is exactly what I have seen in the capacitor that I pulled apart. It had I believe a water borax solution as a wet electrolyte. This way if a short happens the borax instantly heals the oxide layer to repair the breach. Why exactly do you think the electrolytic caps are polarized? Why have most seen a rather weak recharging effect from the electrolytics. The reason for the weakness is the layer is not big enough. In my newest unit it uses a big gauge aluminum wire coiled around a 5.6 mm graphite lead, artist quality. This coil is situated in a borax coating on the aluminum with epsom salt and salt substitute(potassium). I par boiled the glass container the coil is in until all the crystals went away then set it to cool. I am waiting at the moment for it to solidify slowly. The water is being ejected into the air as the crystals form then fall down to pile up and grow into a mass. I will have to do the process again I think because a fissure is forming going down through the mass to repair the fissure but it is already showing higher voltage then the IB glue cells that I made. The aluminum looks very bright and shinny in the borax salt combo..

 I will see as this thing dries out what it will settle at and what the current capability is once it is fully setup. I figure another couple of days and it will start putting out a good amount of current. We will see...

 The only reason I listened to John B about the diode is because it has been proven by him and others on this forum. When you have a diode it has a bias level to hold it open. Thats what the differences in the metals are for or in my case 1.09v for graphite and aluminum. I have seen higher but they tend to settle at 1.09 volts. Getting magnesium and adding alum will protect the magnesium and the cupric copper will protect the copper. The only thing we use water for is to solidify the structure after heating it up. In that process it will expell the water to the base levels of the crystals. Once that is done galvanics go away and the general operating levels should maintain the water flow within the crystals without touching the metal. Yes the water flows within the crystals. Think of it like a circular fluid pump. use a motivator and it pressurizes and circulates transferring charge through the cell. now since Aluminum acts real well to the electric fields it induces charge as the water flows by it inductively. And the can or other aluminum shield sucks charges from the environment to be picked up statically by the water. This flows twords the center electrode depositing the potential the water is carrying. Since most of the crystals we are using use oxygen as a transporter of the charges seeing that hydrogen bonds to the crystalline structure holding it together and the oxygen is free to move to the next crystal. either way we are getting a results that is not in the end galvanic.

 I would suggest that any of these cells be fully dried before using as using them before they start growing is detrimental to the flow paths inside of the growing crystal cell. Just let the crystals setup before using the cell. This way the potential of the metals will fully bias the crystals and dry in that condition. In effect we are creating a static electric field magnet and it must be rigid or it will destroy the pathways before they have set hard. It takes time for this to happen.

 Nick All I'm suggesting is to anodize the aluminum before you use it. This way the diode is set and ready to go. Add the carbon(electric conductor not current) and the crystal layers act like reeds in a wood wind. They vibrate because of the flow of charges flowing past them through electric induction. These crystals you are using (quarts) are highly piezoelectric. They respond to electric fields as well as causing them.

 This brings me to the shape of the aluminum can. If it tapers twords the open end it raises the potential by constriction of the electric field or charges. This can cause higher power. The outside of the can must be kept clean and free of oxidation. This could be done by a drying agent like silica  beads maybe.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 11, 2011, 01:26:14 AM
 I started thinking about the video IB showed earlier about water and surfaces. I started to know actually how these crystals form. They are built on the crystalline water from the previous plane of a previous crystal. It builds the lattice  via this method and ejects the bulk water in the process. Just like in the video there are layers that form. They are distinct and when viewed with contrasting dyes you can see the aether in motion as it flows through the matter of the solid and into the crystalline water in the picture. It forms channels and starts twisting like a reverse tornado. The resulting formations are based on the actual crystal structure in all matter except biological matter and it has a signature that is broadcasting it's signature to the environment. The layers above are where the crystalline sheets are forming and falling below onto the matter. They stack via flow induction and suck to the matter after all sides are formed. The tip must be blunt because of the flow of the aether blasts it away dissolving it with the crystalline water as it drags the water behind it loosely. Oxidation must stop at the surface between two layers nearest to the plane of the matter or the first layer. When we add super saturated bulk water it has a lot of material to use to build from the initial crystal structure present in the matter also know as a seed crystal.
 
The thing with piezoelectric matter is it conducts static well and amplifies the speed of the static or charges via geometry and diminishing surface area at the tip. Static in motion is energy personified. And water is respondent to static charges. Try the comb near the faucet experiment and you will see.

 I'm hoping you understand how I see this. Does it sound right?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 11, 2011, 02:30:20 AM
  Does it sound right?
   Well, I can't really answer that, as to speculate on what I have not done would not be too prudent. What I can say is that we need to make the cells stronger, much stronger, or we may as well use the regular batteries that work very well.  I don't feel that we need to totally understand how the cells work, in order to build them. I think that although research is important, the hand on approach can be the best way to get there. Especially by taking advantage of what other have already done and have learned, so we don't waist as much time going through the same thing.
  What we know for sure is that Mg and Carbon are the two best strongest opposing electronegative sources, and since carbon can't be doped, the next best thing is copper, or gold perhaps, or gold platted copper.
  As we are still in the infancy of these cells we must continue to experiment, sometimes blindly, and sometimes coping what has been shown to work. But, it should be fun, as that is also why we are here.
  Really what matters is how much output we can obtain, and if that output can be sustained at a usable working level, without dropping, as most cell have done. So, let's keep at it, John B has been leading the way, with his 8 led carbonate cell. He is devoted to the cause, and is sharing what he can.
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 11, 2011, 03:05:59 AM
 Yes nick the Carbonate cells work but they are dependent on water as a consumption medium. If you read up on Sodium Carbonate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate --you will see what John did. Nothing surprising there.

 Your idea is very very intelligent. We know there is something surrounding matter polarizing that area. So the aluminum can polarizes the flow within the aluminum and slightly around it. The carbon is highly resistant to current flow. It blocks it but not the potential applied to it. If you want to increase the power then add the dielectric layer to the polarized matter and it will be harder to reverse bias the diode that is created on the aluminum. You can still use it dry as you do. This should vastly increase your output because it can not leak out backwards and has only one way to go out, the positive electrode.. Think of it like this. You are creating a flow and the surface area connected to the environment is way bigger then the internal space. This causes a pressure in the space. The carbon conducts the voltage only and very little current if any. This potential has the ability to squeeze and raise it's potential. Adding the crystalline matter only helps to induce more potential as well from it's piezoelectric and static capabilities. The "current" problems we are seeing come from the ability to hold the charges within the can. Adding a layer of this oxide will reject most charges from going in the reverse direction increasing it's capability to pressurize and push loads of higher current. Also including an end cap with small seal that the positive electrode goes through might help in containing the pressure and increasing the current.

 Instead of quartz I'm gonna do the rochelle salts because i can get it easily by buying cream of tartar. I bought pure sodium carbonate at the art store and will add the tartar to the mix by this method: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/rochelle.html . Since I have the sodium carbonate already I can go to the second step.

 I have also picked up pure carbon that is artist quality for the unit. I will be trying to replicate with the anodized aluminum and see if the suggestions I gave you strengthen the output.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 11, 2011, 04:15:49 AM
  John has mentioned that water is needed at first but that later it is needed less and less as time goes by.  I don't know, but if the oxidation is controlled by the carbonate ions that may actually be protecting the anodes over time instead of creating more break down of the metals, it may work as planned.  We need to give him a chance to prove the point.  If the cells are not working as he thinks, the result will be a dropping of the output over time. So, again time will tell, as it always has.  Carbonate is known for making for good electrolytes. As its ions protect or at least don't eat up the metals. In any case I'm not doing that, until we see some further results, but so far it is the best results that have been obtained, at least by him. 
   I would really like to see the Blue cell connected to an led, or a Jtc, it might just be able to light a red led by itself as some of my cells have done.   I am very interested in seeing some output test on that cell, as it has the highest current output of all, other than Lasersabers wet cells. If the meter readings are now correct that is.  Again I recommend the Lasersaber Jtc, as it is super easy to make, and has given great results by the people replicating it, although at least three or more cells may be needed to make it work properly.
  I will soon have some results to show and tell about my hot dog on a stick cell. I'm just giving it a chance to dry some more. I don't expect exceptional result, as I'm not following the Epsom/substitute salt mg/copper way of doing it. But I will make another copper, aluminum hot dog cell soon so that I'll have more results to compare, and also be able to at least light a red led.  This time I'll be using a semiconductor copper anode.
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 11, 2011, 04:53:23 PM
 Does anyone know if McCormics cream of tartar is the real stuff?? potassium bitartrate?? I know it came up before I just don't know where...

 My newest cell is hooked up to all of the glue cells and running the head of a single led flashlight head. You know the super cap one. I have it hooked up at the led connections and when you turn it off it charges the cap pretty well. So far 2.6 volts seems to be the limit of the cells. Weird. 2.6 seems to be the voltage no matter what I hook up to the batteries. I think using a cap to exercise(charge) is the best growth medium. Hopefully there is enough structure in the newest cell to hold the current open. It could be the weak cells are holding this new battery back so to speak.

 Johns ideas are unique as well and I didn't know the water did the same as I have described in my setups. Nice. I'll be starting the Rochelle battery Sodium Carbonate battery soon in both yours and John B style. I am ramping up my researching into this process quickly. Once I get the right cream of tartar I'll be starting that. I think Rochelle salt might be a better crystalline material because we can vary the composition of the crystals making it tune-able.

*update* I had an interesting thing happen with the led light head. While soldering the tab some rosin got trapped between two tabs of the rectifier on one side. The led stayed on no matter what I did. I even disassembled the setup trying to figure out what was going on. I unsoldered the connection and it went away. the solder bridge was crystalline as rosin is a crystal. this caused a connection without really shorting the two out. I will try to get a picture of the unit and where it had the crystal bridge. I will also see if I can get it to do the same thing.
 I couldn't get it to do the same thing again the funny thing is the only power was the super cap that the head has mounted on it... I think it has something to do with being similar to an active Averamenko plug. When I checked the voltage on the super cap it was steady at whatever the voltage I charged the cap upto. The cap is marked 5.5volts but had a voltage of 2.6volts. Strange. I also bridged the tabs from each bank of the rectifiers together in parallel. ??? Thats where the coils come from the shake up part. That might have something to do with it also. Let me get a photo of it...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/100_0360.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/100_0364.jpg

 On 100_364 The lower rectifier in the picture had the rosin bridge and for some reason it stayed lit no matter what I did. When I decided to unsolder it, the rosin melted and the led went out. The funny thing is the cap was maintaining the 2.6 volts steady. I checked it while the led was lit and stayed at 2.6 for over half an hour till I unsoldered the connection I made.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 12, 2011, 02:08:18 AM
 Well I'm on the hunt for some magnesium plates and aluminum round stock for my units. I want a good thick outer walls for the aluminum. I am wondering if I should have them made cast style then finished by lathe. With the inside anodized to form a good layer of oxide. I figure I can have a cap made from flat stock then drill out the hole for the electrode with plastic insert. I am wondering if I should use graphite powder instead of the carbon (just a thought)?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 12, 2011, 02:51:47 AM
Well I'm on the hunt for some magnesium plates and aluminum round stock for my units. I want a good thick outer walls for the aluminum. I am wondering if I should have them made cast style then finished by lathe. With the inside anodized to form a good layer of oxide. I figure I can have a cap made from flat stock then drill out the hole for the electrode with plastic insert. I am wondering if I should use graphite powder instead of the carbon (just a thought)?
Everyone must choose their own path and no one knows yet what the correct path is.  I subscribe to the "KISS" method in building these cells.  This is why I think the glue and stove top crystal cells are so popular.  Simple build with easily obtainable materials.  I have lost count of the number of cells I have constructed.  Made three last night and have less than 2 bucks invested.  Much easier to throw away the cells when they do not perform.  I enjoy your posts as you bring many interesting ideas to the table.  Good luck with your builds.  :)
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 12, 2011, 02:20:37 PM
 Well a lot has already been tried. The first thing I did was to make a batch of IB's Glue cells. They are the best runners so far. The chemicals are not that hard for me to get since I have a professional art store just around the corner. Very eclectic shop indeed. This is a super store and they are very interested in what I am doing too. They call me the "Battery" man there. Rofl

 I try to think in broader terms when relating my insight into the Aether. It doesn't directly affect matter but it can align it to it's flow. The path of least resistance is like a weather vane in the sense of the flow. It's a subtle touch but if you learn how to stick to it very tightly it can be very powerful. They say we are actually moving at over  "552 to 630 km per second" per wikipedia. We are essentially flying through this stuff and all matter has a flow of this stuff filtering through it. Now the Galaxy is by no means homogeneous. It can have flows over light years. And I'm afraid that matter is floating on the surface of this fluid. The fluid tends to ball up on a planar orientation. This is merely a surface between two distinct densities of charges. You could think that The universe is a bubble if you could see it's real form. As mass goes it is looking like matter is in a sphere but that might be an illusion based on our fractal view points. The Aether is super fast. It can be because it is what we float in. Waves propagate very fast in this pond. Think about that. Hydro dynamics applied to space and beyond. It can also work down further in as we are now able to see.
 It makes sense to me. The only thing that is different is density and scale then. At the smallest levels creatures live and breathe. They forage and propagate. They have their own gravity and that is natural statics. Although I would want to apply rules of statics to our scale of density. When comparing masses and the density of masses to each other we might be able to piece together the fractal patterns back to our scale and simulate that accurately. Our Technology might be able to get so far before there is a blank. Just too much density for one connection looking into that place to physically handle.. Besides it is looking good about this process. We just have to sit and think about it first. The processes that are going on here are extremely accurate or can be when you learn how to manipulate matter on that scale. Energy, while forming this electric battery will be essential to this process. We can use it to align the crystalline structure into super conductive bands. These bands will be piezoelectric and as the Aether rushes by it it will resonate giving energy. I was wondering if I could put some phosphor in the mix and see if it will glow too as a joke! Like it was radio active lol...

 I promised the art store people that I would bring in the battery for them to see heh.. Glowing and all should scare the crap out of them lol!!!!

 As a side not Rochelle salts grows as threads right? Long and thin? Hmmm...

 I was researching crystals and how they grow and it always starts with seeds. Oh wait thats what we are doing with the oxide. Sweet...

 I am betting that to do this right will include the breaking down of water to assemble the inside crystals. This way the pathway will be aligned by the electrical action and the crystals should follow that and get denser as they build into the center. For the crystal version. The carbon crystal one should be much easier to do. We just need a uniform density of crystals so that one area is not out of balance. I was thinking of a crystal grinder made from oxidized aluminum. There should be a flow of solution through a spinning drum like device. The distance should not be too far apart from the interior of the drum. Kinda like the stepper motors design. The outside spins and the inside is stationary. Both sides should be oxidized for the best growing base. The outside will spin breaking the crystals off and grinding them with the oxide breaking them up to a uniform size I am thinking. The solution could have crystals growing in it already and just process the crystals into a slurry that can be injected into the case in layers then dried out by kiln if needed to a certain level or we could include a dessicant in cavities for a special growth cap for the device. power should be applied to align the whole device then compressed to lock in the pattern and solidify. With enough pressure and heat you could get the rochelle salts to form little disks but must not be overdone or the carbon might turn to diamond. Which would ruin the effect I think... It might be that the disks would go piezoelectric while being squeezed and you just need to short it out in that process. The cap method should enable us to build in a compression value when firmly secured by bolts. The compression should be very quick and accurately controlled and secured right after compression. Once secured it should be stored for a bit and monitored for levels. After a few days it should be ready from the strengthening phase. Slowly the load is increased in a seesaw manner.

 My idea to use rochelle salts was only because of the methode to make it. It's composition can be enhanced by dopants that we still have not figured out completely. Besides quartz is made naturally and you are relying on that natural composition without the ability to change it's mixture you loose a majority of the tunability of these reeds(crystal disks)!

 The more you compress these disks the more sensitive to movement they become. Since the crystalline structure is so dense in it's construction it will increase the voltage back for little input. In active mode they will be powered amplifiers. Greatly increasing The push power the more that are in series. We might need to have many in parallel in order to get movement through the Aether and when I say movement I mean pulling ourselves through the Aether. Tesla talked about making fibers out of the Aether and pulling himself or a vehicle through Aether by the ropes. He learned that he could control the Aether and make it stiff or polarized. This carbon crystal battery is not what we think. If it can receive energy from the Aether then it can effect it too! It might be that we can control the Aether through a high voltage fields like in TV's. It's not the particle they are influencing it is the very medium of space. That constriction of the fields draws more in and raises the resolution of that space imparting more charge carrying capability. The one way valve allows us to apply it to a cavity creating an inductive bottle that sucks in the Aether and spits it out the end. We can control this process by fields encircling the escape port. we can even move the fields with servos back and forth relative to each other and effect all angles that way and make it steerable. We should also be able to form a bubble and travel at full network speed safe in the bubble. Just like in Star Trek. Changing the shape of the bubble will allow us to move in that case.

 The simple glue cells tell me that we have figured out a way to maintain an imbalance across two spaces. This is an artificial surface we are creating. We can run the load for as much power as that natural element voltage can push across that surface. Now what we need to do the improve the process is figure out how to increase it's capability to go beyond what it naturally supplies. This will mean designing and creating the space with matter to collect and divert more of that potential out the end of an orifice. The more the Aether we can get into that space the better it's capability to pull and compress the Aether.

 The response of the Aether is what induction is. When we pulse a coil we get a response of the Aether releasing it's threads or network lines back into the environment. This generates a return pulse that has been misconstrued as negative. It isn't negative at all it is just less positive then the environmental balance point. We chose the balance point as the zero line and that actually is absolute zero in reality. The lowest possible temp before matter dissipates. Negative would be in reality lower then absolute zero. A true negative would force all matter to fall apart. It actually would repel all particles in atoms and is what I suspect is making us speed up as in Universal speed. You could say that it is anti matter but in reality it is only what holds all particles apart. Even the network of energy flows in the Universe.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 12, 2011, 06:43:36 PM
 As a side note this Theory of Fluid Electricity was first explored by Benjamin Franklin. You can get a glimpse of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Scientific_Knowledge_of_Things_Familiar#Electrical_fluid

 It's not the book per say but I think I can get a copy of it on the net.

 And here it is: http://www.archive.org/details/aguidetoscienti01brewgoog

 You might need to make a login and it's free. Lots of great older books there!
 
one part of the book struck me exceptionally hard:

 Q: Why is a tin pan  (filled with hot water) employed as a foot warmer?

A: Because polished Tin (being a bad radiator of heat) keeps hot a very long time; and warms the feet slowly while resting upon it!

 I think we have the answer to the problem right here. Through polishing of the tin it smears the channels in the Tin along the surface like a smudge. This makes it harder for the energy to radiate back out of the tin bottle. This smear is like when we bend close the end of a hose. Pressure builds and the shape of the bend dictates the spray shape.

 The way I have been saying is to create this barrier that only allows energy to be attracted to the inductive bottle inside. Once the potential increases inside so does the power of the pressurization of the energy. This can be controlled but higher electric fields then the potential the inductive bottle inside. The mass of metal is the conductor but we change it from bidirectional exchange to one way making the bottle equalize to the internal pressure. We can make this process stronger by configuring the constriction fields to charge up then let it go when it reaches a higher potential then the bottles interior. This will allow spurts to come out the end that are squeezed or focused into a tighter and faster potential. The process could be automatic by mimicking a tank circuit. When it hits a certain level it burst fires the charges which increase the potential. Initially this should create a thrust and with an addition of a target generator rings we should be able to pickup and generate from the passing charges if the rings are engaged just right. So here we have it. The perfect motor generator all in one unit.

 Tesla did this with air and charged pellets. The resulting target hit if chosen to would be destructive and very powerful. But the induced movement of the medium would still move the unit and what it is attached to.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 13, 2011, 04:35:09 PM
As a side note this Theory of Fluid Electricity was first explored by Benjamin Franklin. You can get a glimpse of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Scientific_Knowledge_of_Things_Familiar#Electrical_fluid

 It's not the book per say but I think I can get a copy of it on the net.

 And here it is: http://www.archive.org/details/aguidetoscienti01brewgoog

 You might need to make a login and it's free. Lots of great older books there!
 
one part of the book struck me exceptionally hard:

 Q: Why is a tin pan  (filled with hot water) employed as a foot warmer?

A: Because polished Tin (being a bad radiator of heat) keeps hot a very long time; and warms the feet slowly while resting upon it!

 I think we have the answer to the problem right here. Through polishing of the tin it smears the channels in the Tin along the surface like a smudge. This makes it harder for the energy to radiate back out of the tin bottle. This smear is like when we bend close the end of a hose. Pressure builds and the shape of the bend dictates the spray shape.

 The way I have been saying is to create this barrier that only allows energy to be attracted to the inductive bottle inside. Once the potential increases inside so does the power of the pressurization of the energy. This can be controlled but higher electric fields then the potential the inductive bottle inside. The mass of metal is the conductor but we change it from bidirectional exchange to one way making the bottle equalize to the internal pressure. We can make this process stronger by configuring the constriction fields to charge up then let it go when it reaches a higher potential then the bottles interior. This will allow spurts to come out the end that are squeezed or focused into a tighter and faster potential. The process could be automatic by mimicking a tank circuit. When it hits a certain level it burst fires the charges which increase the potential. Initially this should create a thrust and with an addition of a target generator rings we should be able to pickup and generate from the passing charges if the rings are engaged just right. So here we have it. The perfect motor generator all in one unit.

 Tesla did this with air and charged pellets. The resulting target hit if chosen to would be destructive and very powerful. But the induced movement of the medium would still move the unit and what it is attached to.

 Tin isn't the answer here the process is. Tin was an example that was posed by Benjamin Franklin when explaining the process. Our path is to realize this process and devise a way to utilize the process into a method to get what we want. I think using gold or silver plating on the center electrode would focus the charges flowing twords it better. Think of it like this. The center electrode is made out of matter that has one pattern and density. When we cover the electrode with gold, which has a finer density it amplifies the charge presented to the electrode by splitting up the charges into a finer density to present to the inner electrode. You could say we are focusing the energy into higher potentials to present to the electrode. This in turn raises the potential of the electrode beyond what it would normally be naked in the device and would give it more umph to sustain that potential.

 Now we know what it takes to make diamonds. If we compressed the carbon to a setting just before that process works this might work as well. Lets say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond. In fact we probably could do synthetic diamonds and that would bring back the tunability of the device on that side to. If it is conductive then plating the end will still work.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 15, 2011, 02:31:02 AM
Well it seems that the Crystal cell research has gotten a little quiet, I hope everyone is doing well.

I'm still working on my cells. I'm in the process of making bigger, cheaper, and more powerful cells. The key word now is cheaper. I've found that Elmer's glue can be expensive so I'm working on replacing it with something better.

Using Flour and water and mixing the Epsom salt and salt substitute and allowing it to dry seems to be working so far but is very brittle. So I'll see if flour and water will be the replacement for Elmer's glue. It maybe key to spray paint this cell as to protect the brittle flour when its dry.

I'm also working on a bank of big cells that will charge a super capacitor.

I would upload a picture but Overunity.com wont allow it for some odd reason. Check energetic forum for picture.
Title: Hot dog on a stick- cell update
Post by: NickZ on November 15, 2011, 05:17:19 AM
   All:
   I have been busy with other things but I would like to relate what I've found when I connect up the cell I call the "Hot Dog on a Stick". 
After over a week it is still dripping water, salt water. I have washed it off and dried the cell, but it just goes back to dripping more water.
Anyway, I think that the glue/salt process works, even with using the regular salt, brass rod, and aluminum wire.  As I have not added
any additional water to it since the day it was made.  Which is what I was trying to avoid, the addition of more water to keep it working.
I still have not had a chance to buy a new meter, so I don't know what it puts out, but I can still tell, more of less, that it's about a volt,
and 10 to 20 mA. Which is not that bad considering its make up.
Several coils can be placed in series on a single rod, and the voltages will add up.  Ib give that a try, you'll see how using the same anode
to place several separate cathodes will produce several volts. You can connect them in series, and/or parallel as well. It will work both ways.
   One advantage of this system over some others is that the impedance of the cell is steadier unlike the cement cells and other cells that
I've made and used, which can drop in voltage over time, these cell can maintain their voltage and current levels under load much better.
So, are more useful in that sense.
   I think that using glue to seal the outside of the cell is not going to work permanently in my situation. As the cell seams to sweat too much.
 So, I think that sealing it with resin, or E-poxy, or something more impermeable will be necessary. But it does work, and can be made with
no cost in materials, as I've done, zilch expense, other than the glue.  I'll add some more coils to the 15 inch brass rod soon, like another
three more, and I'll show you all the results. It should produce about 3 to 4 volts, if all goes well.
 
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 15, 2011, 03:04:10 PM

 Excellent Nick. I too had that idea and have found that it does in fact work the way you state. It seems to be surface area related as to the power it can push.


 I have started experiments on just sodium carbonate, aluminum and graphite. At first there was a reaction, bubbling but after 3 days I am now seeing crystals forming on the top layer of the water. This could be interesting!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 15, 2011, 03:54:21 PM
Using flour and water and letting it dry does work as a glue but its very brittle. Its not better than Elmer's glue but its a lot cheaper and easier to make.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 15, 2011, 04:13:30 PM
   @ Ib2:
   Although you may be right about the surface area, I've already tried what I am suggesting, and it does work as I'm stating.
   Although I have not had a chance to try it yet on the hot dog cell, as I've been busy,  but I did try it on a 15" section of 1/2" copper tube, and found that I could
light a couple of white leds, and that the voltage was about 3 volts, and several mA. This was done some months ago, so I don't remember all the details,
but I do suggest giving it a try, so that you can see for yourself.  I used a 1/2" copper tube, and aluminum wire.
  One important factor is that the copper tube is part of my 6 foot copper framed pyramid, and so there may be a difference compared to just a regular short piece
of tube by itself, I don't know, but I'm fixing to try it out, with the hot dog cell.  I'll know more in a day or two. In any case I thought that it was worth mentioning.
I did not develop the idea any further at the time, as I'm not interested in having to add water to the electrolyte cloth that I was using before. But, now it is different
with the use of your sealed glue/salt idea.
  Yesterday I again dried my hot dog cell of any surface salty water that it had showing on it, just to find an inch wide puddle of water under it on the table this morning.
So, it may be that it is absorbing additional water from the air here, on its own.   But I'm not sure.
  I do plan on buying the Epsom and the salt substitute, when I can find them here. In the meantime I'm doing what I can with what is on hand, as usual.
  For those that can find the carbonate, please let us know what your results are, as this may just be the magic substance, after all.  Or not...
                                                                                                                                                                   NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2011, 02:42:09 AM
The crystal cell that I keep shorted out for about 3 months was given a chance to rest for a few days on 11-10-11. The cell was at 1.463 volts at 6 micro-amps, then the cell was shorted out again. The short was removed on 11-13-11 and the cell was allowed to rest til today which is 11-15-11. The cell now reads 1.490 volts at 8 micro-amps. This was only a test to see if the cell is really recharging itself and by the looks of it it really is. But nothing last forever.[/size]

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Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 16, 2011, 04:24:06 AM
But nothing last forever.[/size]

 But I think these cells will last longer then we will. They seem to be attracting a vibrance that creates a oscolation in the cells that creates the usable current we are seeing. As you have pointed out, we can short them and they come back even stronger. There is no battery ever made that has done this. This tells me that they will last as long as all the materials they are made of last. Forever? Maybe not but I am guessing that they will last longer then our generation and that alone makes this worth it.
 
 Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2011, 04:35:16 AM
@nightlife


Thank you.


I remember a comic strip that had a picture of some guys standing around a perpetual motion machine with the caption "we have a perpetual motion machine, but its going to take forever to test it".  :D


If these cells do last for a long time than its going to take forever to test them.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 16, 2011, 09:24:47 PM
I've just had a bad storm move on by here and all my cells seem to have gone up in power. I would say that the increase in power was due to more water being in the air because of the rain but the big blue cell which is sealed with 3 heavy coats of paint has gone up in power too. The only thing I can think of that would cause the increase in power would be a barometric  change. Maybe the change in pressure affected the output of the cells? Moisture in the air would have made more since but the cells that are sealed off still had a increase to. [/size]

[/size]
I guess some test with pressure is now in-order, Maybe put the cell in a tube and blast compressed air on to it could increase the power output! Makes me wonder what they will do in a vacuum? [/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 16, 2011, 10:11:23 PM



 I think it is more due to voltage standing.


 I havce been watching my Sodium carbonate cell with aluminum and graphite. It has a very curious Ice like crystal growing. This crystal seems to melt from light of a diode. Weird.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 16, 2011, 10:37:27 PM
  If you hold a magnet in your hand, you find that it can move another magnet on the back side of your hand, right through your body.  In a similar way Aether can be absorbed by the two different metals acting like antennas of the cells, right through anything.
  Heat, cold, sunlight, magnetism, lightning, and solar flares, are all different forms originating from the same source, the Aether. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 17, 2011, 03:40:08 PM
 Almost all correct Nick. The Aether in itself is inert. It is our momentum that drives us through the Aether. Think of it like a huge ocean. We, matter plow through it and it filters into our matter. It is the ultimate solvent. When this solvent is at rest when in comparison to the rest of the Aether it condenses into water. Water is the next phase of it's evolution it shares the same base rules. Finding those base rules is pretty easy. Look for patterns. Mass shows us the base network and it's design. Matter is just a collection or condensed Aether in that mass. When you add charges (also called Heat) it changes phase. Likewise when you take those charges it changes phase as well at certain levels. Phase change can be thought of as density levels of these charges. Most everything has these charges at some basic level. It is after all the background in localized motion. If we are, as a galaxy in motion, then there must be "552 to 630 km per second depending on the relative frame of reference." of Aether moving through or around any matter in our space at any given time.

 Also I would like to suggest that time is being recorded in the flow of all matter through the Aether. You could think of it like a hard drive but this one looses the data after awhile. Kinda like a buffer.  Think of it like it's a surface, a medium, as matter collects very minute spaces of this Aether condense as well. They get stronger. They follow Geometric planar electric fields. The planar is surface based and when in sufficient alignment can become very strong. The finer the density of these channels the more power it has. It can suck from a bigger play field with a finer density. It can change it's flow direction and compress it to a higher potential.

 I really think your Carbon crystal battery is the answer. But you need to increase the pressure and one way to do that is by the structure of oxides. Once you see how it works you will understand the process more. You need to know about wave guides as well in this example of yours. Start thinking in flows and pressures and you will start to understand what is going on in that device. Learn how to deflect it and compress it and you will have the most powerful device around. Maybe changing the diameter of the crystal wafers would change the tune of the device? Like a woodwind operates???

 I was thinking about paints and how we could make paints from the crystal and carbon. Then we could layer this woodwind in many many layers. The finer we get the particles the bigger the bang will be when they vibrate. This is because there would be many more reeds in the piping. I also think that when the oxide is acting like a diode we need to balance the outside electrode every cycle. This way the metal won't break down from excess depletion of charges. We can also tailor the reeds to specific diameters with the thickest crystal layer being directly to the can. The carbon should always be touching the can. You could think about the carbon as the return or ground of the device. Mainly a medium to transfer minute movement into compression for the crystalline layers. When the potential difference is larger for the two types of matter it will slowly leak current. This forms a network of a certain density. When it hits the crystal layer it vibrates the layers causing a lot of generation of piezoelectric potential. Given enough potential we can power devices through induction, that have designed in to it the transformer action of induction. In the meantime the high voltage potential gets transmitted very easily by carbon without appreciable loss.

 It could be with the right dopants in the carbon the type and effects of the crystal that forms will change. Synthetic Diamonds have increased electrical capabilities they are finding out. But I'm not sure if it is wise to make a full solid crystalline interior. It could be too much for base metals to contain the growth. but on the other hand being Diamond means no water at all. The crystals we are using have tons of the components of water so dividing Galvanic action is gonna be hard to do.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 18, 2011, 07:30:41 AM
   If you feel that the aluminum/carbon/quartz cell can be the answer, then why don't you build some cells as you've mentioned doing, and see if it really works as planned With the semiconductor, doping, mix, and all.  There is no more convincing idea than a working device. 
  I already know what I need to do, and am working towards that direction, in my own way, although I won't know if its the right way to go, until I get there.
  My main point of view is to mention that these cells, are working off of field energies, and not just galvanic reactions, or just advanced galvanics, as Ib likes to call it. I would have discarded them long ago.  It may be a confusing topic, for some, but not for me, although  I may be wrong about that, if I am, I'll be the first to admit it. As I'm not really partial to anything but the truth, as I see it...
   Although some people like Tesla could see or envision an idea before they make it happen for real. I don't have the best forsight, and need to experiment by trial and error, at times. Not the best approach perhaps, but it has worked for me up to now, to a degree. In any case this should all be fun to do, or else we're barking up the wrong tree. 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 18, 2011, 02:38:56 PM
   If you feel that the aluminum/carbon/quartz cell can be the answer, then why don't you build some cells as you've mentioned doing, and see if it really works as planned With the semiconductor, doping, mix, and all.  There is no more convincing idea than a working device. 
  I already know what I need to do, and am working towards that direction, in my own way, although I won't know if its the right way to go, until I get there.
  My main point of view is to mention that these cells, are working off of field energies, and not just galvanic reactions, or just advanced galvanics, as Ib likes to call it. I would have discarded them long ago.  It may be a confusing topic, for some, but not for me, although  I may be wrong about that, if I am, I'll be the first to admit it. As I'm not really partial to anything but the truth, as I see it...
   Although some people like Tesla could see or envision an idea before they make it happen for real. I don't have the best forsight, and need to experiment by trial and error, at times. Not the best approach perhaps, but it has worked for me up to now, to a degree. In any case this should all be fun to do, or else we're barking up the wrong tree. 
 
 
 


 Agreed. But on the comment about Tesla always building in his head thats not what I got from it. This one avenue intrigued him to no end. This is what he could not envision and that made him want to experiment for the first time. It drove him to experiment. All of his life he could build and modify devices in his head but he couldn't do that with this for some reason and he was in new territory for the first time.


 All good scientists are empirical experimenters. They learn from watching in front of there eyes. That even included Tesla.


 Oh I'm getting ready for the device. I am designing the casing (can) now. I have the carbon but have yet to get silica sand (quarts). I have decided to use the quarts because it is harder. It should make the unit tougher. We shall see. I am on the fence now with either Aluminum can or Magnesium. The latter would be more powerful but I don't think it needs the power spread. I guess thats what experimentation is for right?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 18, 2011, 04:15:27 PM
  Although I do have some of the same envisioning abilities as Tesla, as some of us do also, and I don't really know how or which way Tesla was doing it, as I only read about it, I do see some merit in doing that myself to the degree that I can.  I do agree that there may be some aspect of new ideas that we can only know by actual experiment and tests, but there are even better ways to get there, if you are able to do it, than the old trial and error approach.
   I hope that you can do some hands-on experiments now that you have most of the needed materials.  The magnesium-carbon is the best way to go, in what we see from other tests. But big aluminum capacitor cans also work, if the mg is a problem to obtain.
 I prefer the no semiconductor way of doing it, as it involves less work, and I'm not really sold on that process, yet, as it needs further proof,  as well as possible non kitchen table labs, in order to use the no water methods mentioned my JB, when refering to the Reid semiconductor cells.  But 2mA outputs are not worth the effort, as far as I'm concerned, if that is really what they put out, which even this I doubt.
  Ib2 may be able to obtain an even higher current output without the additional semiconductor work, so I'm very interested in seeing his current and future results, also.
   My idea is the dry No water way of doing it, but it may not provide the same output as the other ways.
In any case I'm not trying to run my car, or light my house on these cells, as I'm also working on other ideas as well.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 18, 2011, 09:28:14 PM
  Although I do have some of the same envisioning abilities as Tesla, as some of us do also, and I don't really know how or which way Tesla was doing it, as I only read about it, I do see some merit in doing that myself to the degree that I can.  I do agree that there may be some aspect of new ideas that we can only know by actual experiment and tests, but there are even better ways to get there, if you are able to do it, than the old trial and error approach.
   I hope that you can do some hands-on experiments now that you have most of the needed materials.  The magnesium-carbon is the best way to go, in what we see from other tests. But big aluminum capacitor cans also work, if the mg is a problem to obtain.
 I prefer the no semiconductor way of doing it, as it involves less work, and I'm not really sold on that process, yet, as it needs further proof,  as well as possible non kitchen table labs, in order to use the no water methods mentioned my JB, when refering to the Reid semiconductor cells.  But 2mA outputs are not worth the effort, as far as I'm concerned, if that is really what they put out, which even this I doubt.
  Ib2 may be able to obtain an even higher current output without the additional semiconductor work, so I'm very interested in seeing his current and future results, also.
   My idea is the dry No water way of doing it, but it may not provide the same output as the other ways.
In any case I'm not trying to run my car, or light my house on these cells, as I'm also working on other ideas as well.


 Yeah my experiments have been along the lines of how to get the oxide layer for aluminum. I have found that Oxi-Cleaner products do real well at that. It contains Sodium Percarbonate & Sodium carbonate. It does make the aluminum have a matte finish (Dull). I got a few more tests to do with that route then it is off to trying to get a big round of Aluminum. I think the more center electrode mass the better so I'm looking for some 1/2"-1" rounds of graphite as well or carbon. The quartz sand I think I'll get online. I think the finest grade(mesh size) should do for this application.


 I agree that no water would be the perfect source. The problem is if that is even possible at all.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 19, 2011, 02:12:09 AM
  Although the no water is possible, the questions is that really the best way to go.  In any case, nothing tried nothing gained.  If in doubt just wait, for something better, but if you want to have some fun now...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 19, 2011, 02:48:09 AM


 Don't get me wrong I have 8 cells running atm. All different designs. My best was to test the Oxide layer on the aluminum. It's in a thick glass jar. I treated the aluminum in a borax was first. Then I coated the wet aluminum in borax powder. Slipped the coil into the jar and added more borax Epsom's salts and Salt substitute. Nothing that I could remember about how much each. I think it was a majority of borax water with some Epsom's crystals from the milk carton. Now I know why my mixed always ran over. The Epsom's salt is loaded with this crystalline water. Highly polarized this stuff is. The salt substitute is at a pinch or two. I think it was two pinches. The borax crystals are the cement the sticky part when wet. The water is very organized already from the Epsom's salts. The salt substitute seems to be the work horse or higher density crystals. They form the network.


 The one thing is the aluminum coil hasn't been touched and the crystalline material has started to reach the inner of that outer aluminum coil. I need to take a good picture of it back lit for you. But as usual my lab is a mess.. Lil.. He said Lab... It hasn't evaporated all of the water in it. But since that water was already polarized it didn't need much to start forming crystals. I then cooked the whole jar in Boiling water. I sealed it with glue on the top but it pulled away and a rim has formed around the glue. Kinda neat breather space.


 It still only runs .61 , I can't tell you the current because I blew that feature in my high voltage days with this meter. I know the voltage part is OK, I just blew the fuse in it for the current. There is fluid in this yet no galvanic reaction that I can tell... So I am believing that this process I devised might work well as a water barrier. I'm assuming the smaller the oxide layer the better the effect to a point. Once the oxide crystals form it won't be long before they grow too fast and get too big. Heating the aluminum does help tons if you can spray the borax on. But getting an even coat is very hard. I'm sure there is a better way to do that that I don't know about.


 That's where I came up with the idea of using the Oxi-Cleaner. It seems to leave the deposit even all over the aluminum. After cooking it it should activate that layer to be used in a water situation. I'll see when I get to that part.


 I'm still working on the parts for the dry cell like you have made. Except I'm doing the oxide thing and containing it all with the end piece I'm gonna have made. The electrode for the first small unit will be the graphite 5.6 mm leads I can get here. The carbon is also great quality so we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 20, 2011, 05:10:13 AM
The big blue cell that I've painted with blue spray paint with 3 heavy coats of paint had me worried. I had a bad rain storm come through and the voltage went up and I feared the worse. I was worried that the cell was getting water from the air and this would be bad because this would make it galvanic. I've put it to the side for a couple days because I fear the cell was nothing now but I finally broke down and performed a simple test. I took a spray bottle and I spray the cell with water. To my surprise the cell voltage started going down the more i sprayed it with water but did stop at a certain point. I can't believe this, this has me more confused then when I started. If the cell went up in voltage than it would be galvanic, if the cell stayed the same than it would not be galvanic, but since it went down I don't know what to call it? Anti-galvanic maybe? This makes me upset because I'm more confused then when I started this whole test. So it wasn't the moisture in the air that caused the cell to increase it voltage when the bad rain/thunderstorm came through. So this just leaves barometric pressure and I have some ideas on how to test that.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 20, 2011, 04:16:54 PM
The big blue cell that I've painted with blue spray paint with 3 heavy coats of paint had me worried. I had a bad rain storm come through and the voltage went up and I feared the worse. I was worried that the cell was getting water from the air and this would be bad because this would make it galvanic. I've put it to the side for a couple days because I fear the cell was nothing now but I finally broke down and performed a simple test. I took a spray bottle and I spray the cell with water. To my surprise the cell voltage started going down the more i sprayed it with water but did stop at a certain point. I can't believe this, this has me more confused then when I started. If the cell went up in voltage than it would be galvanic, if the cell stayed the same than it would not be galvanic, but since it went down I don't know what to call it? Anti-galvanic maybe? This makes me upset because I'm more confused then when I started this whole test. So it wasn't the moisture in the air that caused the cell to increase it voltage when the bad rain/thunderstorm came through. So this just leaves barometric pressure and I have some ideas on how to test that.


 Great Test IB... What you have there is the ability of the water to polarize to the units voltage potential and shield it from part of the fields these "batteries" utilize. Nothing confusing there IB. Just got to understand the abilities of water I guess.
 Try looking up static rules when used with metals and you will see what the water is doing. Think of it like this one side or surface of the metal can be charged, the other side pulls the charge from it making it depleted or negative. Both potentials are equal but out of balance. Water reacts to static charges so it must be Conductive to it somewhat.


 The voltage increase can from the environment being so highly charged. The environment changes in potential and so does your battery potentials accordingly.

 I guess it is time for me to make an exciter field generator and do my own experiments on exposing these "batteries" to high potential fields. My take on this is that they are focusing channels for potentials based on the environmental potentials. If we can expose these devices to high potential fields we might be able to figure out the gain they provide...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on November 20, 2011, 11:05:11 PM

 I guess it is time for me to make an exciter field generator and do my own experiments on exposing these "batteries" to high potential fields. My take on this is that they are focusing channels for potentials based on the environmental potentials. If we can expose these devices to high potential fields we might be able to figure out the gain they provide...

 I personally want to test them in low energy invironment potentials. I was thinking Nevada or Arizona at night miles away from any sort of man made energy field.
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 21, 2011, 12:39:50 AM

I think I may have stumbled across on how to make a crystal cell that uses the same metals. I'm getting a constant 400mV coming from using Aluminum wire for both electrodes. There is no magic involved in the process to dope the aluminum wire but it is on the dangerous side.


To dope the aluminum wire i took a cup of water and added Epsom salt and salt substitute to it and stuck my aluminum wire in the mix. I applied 12 volts for a couple of seconds and this created one wire that was dull and the other was extra shinny. This is not a new idea as most lead-acid batteries use this idea but what is interesting was that I could no matter how hard i try could get it to charge over 500mV. Maybe if i changed the size of the plates i could get higher voltages. After doping the metals I placed them in the glue mix and i'm allowing it to dry. Care must be taken when doping the aluminum wire as the salt substitute contains chloride and this could create chlorine gas when current is passed through the water.


It is very interesting that I can get a voltage from using the same metals in a cell.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 21, 2011, 03:54:35 AM
   It seams like some guys have been able to electrolyze the aluminum in the salt solution, to leave an oxide layer which is the semiconductor? on the aluminum.   I think that might also work even when using regular table salt, which I do have.  Afterwards the test would be that the treated aluminum will not conduct electricity, and so that protects the metal from further oxidation.  The copper you heat red hot even on the kitchen stove, several times, and dip into water and all the black just comes right of in a second. I haven't got the borax, but I see that the copper turns the reddish shade, and not the black.  I'm ready to try it with a 3 inch long copper tube that I've already heat treated and prepared, as well as the aluminum wire, with the table salt electrolysis treatment. To see if there is any difference in my case, compared to my first hot dog cell, that has no semiconductor treatment.
 
   B_rads:  What the latest on those nice looking mg/copper semiconductor cells?

 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 21, 2011, 04:17:44 AM
 No it wont conduct regular electricity but it is a very good inductive radiator then. The crystals that form in the cell is the focus and the target is the center electrode that recieves the increased potential from the focusing. This is how I am seeing this operate. Water can be used in a cyclic way to recharge the battery but it has to be designed in that one component of water is the transporter. Since oxygen is a good ionizer I am thinking this is the culprit for the recycling methods that Bedini is trying to use. It's a good way to use a set amount of water in the battery as long as it can heal from damage.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 21, 2011, 09:48:58 PM
NickZ:
To be perfectly honest, I have not verified any performance increase by using the semi-conductor process on these cells.  Whether they will last longer than the untreated metals is yet to be seen.  The cells I made (stove top and glue) encased in liquid plastic are all still working, albeit at very low output levels.  Personally, I believe there is still a portion of the output being generated by galvanic action, but time will tell.  My water batteries that have been running for 14 months now show very little consumption of the zinc and if not for the inside steel rusting, it would be difficult to assess any corrosion.  For builders to say that after a few days or weeks that they see no corrosion might be more hope than reality.  Not trying to sound negative here, only attempting to keep my expectations low.  To match circuits with low output and long lasting cells have great value in my opinion.
I have a new variation of Ib’s cell that is showing some promise.  Remember Lidmotor’s cell using the water absorbing polymer gels.  Look at this stuff.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=Water+Absorbing+Polymer+Crystals+Gel+Soil+Moist (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=Water+Absorbing+Polymer+Crystals+Gel+Soil+Moist)
This is potassium based and I used a heated mix of Epsom Salt and Calcium Carbonate to saturate the crystals.  While this is galvanic, I am happy with the output as it will light LED’s and will have to see how long it runs.
Keep up the good work.  I keep my fingers crossed that something very positive will result in all the different methods being tried.   :)
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 21, 2011, 11:39:07 PM
   B_rads:
   Thanks Brad, just wanted to know if you were having any luck lately... I love the way your cells are lighting up that area of your house, all nice and neat...
   Semiconductor, or no semiconductor, that is my question...  So, before I go and buy a bunch of chemicals, salt, and dopings, etz, just want to make sure that it works, and is worth the effort.
 Maybe Jim at EF might be having some luck, with his cells.
  I do feel that the big Mg/ copper cells like John lathed out are the way to go, but it's the mix that worries me a bit.  I want to steer away from water and salt, if possible. If you fill the Mg cups with Carbon, they would not need the semiconductor, as there is no water, air, or anything else. Which carbon to use is the question I still am working on. Look what just a thin pencil lead can output, almost 3 volts,  are first.  So, mass is not all, geometry must play a role, and resistance of the electrolytes, ion concentration and flow.
   I tried the electrolysis on the aluminum wire to see if I can get to to become a semiconductor, by using salt water solution, (table salt), but afterwards it still conducts electricity, which after the treatment it should not do.
   The copper is easy to treat with heat but the aluminum, is more involved, as it needs the chemicals and salts that I can't get.  I'm still not conviced as to the process, yet.
                                                                                                     NZ

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 21, 2011, 11:42:08 PM
B_rads,


What is the voltage and amp readings on the stove top cell and glue cell that are in liquid plastic?


Thanks.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 21, 2011, 11:55:54 PM
B_rads,


What is the voltage and amp readings on the stove top cell and glue cell that are in liquid plastic?


Thanks.
Ib:
I will check again this evening, but the cells, both glue and crystal hold right at 1.25V and 1-2 ma.  Since I am circuit poor and have too many cells, most of them sit shorted out.  When driving a circuit, if I load to heavy, a days rest will bring them right back.  One stove top cell has been under load for over 2 months and just will not die.  These are all copper and magnesium.  Encasing has made a big difference in my cells.  The cells that have not been encased do not hold up nearly as well.
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 22, 2011, 12:23:23 AM
B_rad,


these are great results!  :)


Glad to see that the self charging happens for you too. I remember you showed us how you encase the cells, I think it was a video? Do you still have that link to that video?


Also what part of the world are you at? I get around 1.3 to 1.4 volts where i am at with my encased cells and was wonder if location affected the voltage.


As soon as i get all my supplies i will be making bigger cells that will be encased and join together to charge a super capacitor and that super cap will power thing from LED's to cell phones, etc. The United states postal service has really slowed down my progress, I'm still waiting for my package to arrive that I ordered  almost a month ago.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on November 22, 2011, 01:02:03 AM
Hi All,
in 2005 when Walter Hofmann experimented with his saltwater AG cells,
see:
http://www.overunity.com/78/some-new-photos-of-walt/15/ (http://www.overunity.com/78/some-new-photos-of-walt/15/)

that consisted out of first Durafix- Zamak alloy 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAMAK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAMAK)
a Zinc copper Aluminium alloy

and graphite and saltwater.

he did send me a few samples and I also worked with this.

We found out, that using electrolysing a Zamak alloy rod, it got a very
hard black colored oxid layer.
Then putting this Zamak rod into a graphite cylindrical rod where a hole
was drilled into it and was filled with table-salt-water and graphite powder,
gave quite nice long lasting cells, that put out around 0.7 to 1.2 Volts,
depending on the used graphite and salt.
The interesting part was, that these cells converted the Zamak rod only very slowly
into some kind of transparent crystal, probably some kind of zincchlorid or something
like this like you can see on this old page:
http://www.overunity.com/78/some-new-photos-of-walt/15/ (http://www.overunity.com/78/some-new-photos-of-walt/15/)

So the conditioning of the Zamak alloy rod with a black oxid layer
really helped to protect the alloy rod for some longer time,
but as this was still a wet galvanic cell, the alloy rod was still
converted to this kind of transparent crystal structure probably of
a zinc-alu-chlorid or something simular.

But it latest very long and had an shortcircuit output of
around 1 to 2 mA also after a few weeks, so 3 or 4 cells in series
were still able to put out some light on a white LED.

So what I wanted to say about it, that oxidizing the electrodes
makes sense and encasts them in a hard layer sometimes
as in the Zamak case.

It would be interesting to see, how much current such a
Zamak alloy cell would deliver with the heated dry electrolytes
with the Epsom salt and Borax, Alum etc.. what IBPointless2 and John Bedini has been using
to make their cells...
So maybe you can try Zamak alloy and oxidize it in an electrolizer bath.
You can get it easily by buying Durafix rods which can be used to
solder and repair aluminium metal cases..
like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-REPAIRS-DURAFIX-ALUMALOY-your-choice-1-4-about-10-rods-GREAT-/280764502450 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-REPAIRS-DURAFIX-ALUMALOY-your-choice-1-4-about-10-rods-GREAT-/280764502450)

To get the black layer you can just put them in saltwater or better tapwater with vinegar and attach the positive pole
on them and the negative pole to a stainless-steel rod or graphite rod and let it run for a few
moments, so the oxid will build on these Durafix rods.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 22, 2011, 01:12:03 AM
 I already posted my results from my cells powering a shake up light led head from the flashlight. I does this very well. Most of my cells will run on it to make full brightness but it does work with and without the super cap on the led head.  The super cap has 5.5v marked on it and looks like a two button cell. I have ran the led head for hours and hours (16 at most) and after a slight recharge(rest time) it runs the same way just about every time.


 But most of the cells I made were incorrectly made. With only a graphite lead and aluminum foil tray. They had eaten themselves up basically but the aluminum trays were not treated before making the cells. I think if I had treated the foil trays they would have held up. The galvanic response was pretty bad. So I am left with my best cell (Glass, very wet) with no signs of galvanic anywhere in the unit that I can tell. Ant the sodium carbonate cell.. The latter being 1.25 volts and holding in standing condition. When used the voltage drops pretty bad to about .7 or .8 volts but seems to hold up there.


 My trials with treating the aluminum works with anything you can think of. I think it is how the oxide forms that is of interest and it seems to form a diode like crystalline structure, which should increase your power issue. Well I will know more after my experiments continue. I'm thinking the oxide layer must become a dopant in the carbon to increase crystalline growth of the oxide layer... You could always put an air hole and squeeze the whole mess very tightly with a cleverly designed endcap and let it dry by heating the unit up. Crystal growth should create more pressure and compress the center electrode as well. The endcap is the hardest problem but with clever design we could make a bolt on compression type endcap. When I get a chance I'll draw it up. Holidays are big around my parts. Family everywhere lol...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 22, 2011, 04:34:32 PM
B_rad,


these are great results!  :)


Glad to see that the self charging happens for you too. I remember you showed us how you encase the cells, I think it was a video? Do you still have that link to that video?


Also what part of the world are you at? I get around 1.3 to 1.4 volts where i am at with my encased cells and was wonder if location affected the voltage.


As soon as i get all my supplies i will be making bigger cells that will be encased and join together to charge a super capacitor and that super cap will power thing from LED's to cell phones, etc. The United states postal service has really slowed down my progress, I'm still waiting for my package to arrive that I ordered  almost a month ago.
Here is the link for the instructions I did for encasing the glue cells.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEJOe-rkpi8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEJOe-rkpi8)
 
The thing that is interesting about this method is that if you have not allowed the cells to dry and cast too early, you will have bubbles form in the plastic and this is from gassing, a clear indication that galvanic action is still in play.  When dry, you do not see the bubbles from gassing.
 
For the “stove top” cell, I got some of those glass holders for the tea candles.  Heat the mix with electrodes in place in the area designated for the candle.  If the temperature is too high, you can break the glass, so be cautious if you attempt this.  When cool, mix the liquid plastic and pour over the top to seal.
 
Another observation which may not be relevant, is when adding the catalyst to the resin, the mix will become very warm.  Do not know if this helps, hurts, or is not a factor.
 
Ib: I am in the South East U.S. in Alabama.  Elevation is approximately 700’ above sea level, in a valley between two mountains.
 
I understand about the USPS.  I had to start keeping notes as I would get things in the mail and had forgotten why they were ordered.  When you get an idea, you want to start it right away and waiting for materials can certainly try a person’s patience.
 
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 22, 2011, 05:12:37 PM
  I don't know if anyone has had any luck charging capacitors from these cells, but yesterday I placed a big cap onto my cement cell bank and later tested it with my AV plug, the led lit super bright but only for a second or two.
  Anyway, if anyone knows what is the best electrolytic cap (not the boast caps or super caps), to use in conjunction with these or any cells, please let us know. Hopefully some that has been tried and shown to work, for more than a little while.
 I find that AA batteries will also get charged this way, but only to the same low mA levels as the cells output, so that does not help much.  I do think that placing either caps or batteries in line can help, at least in theory.
   
   Harti:  thanks for the info, maybe one of the guys that have the Epsom, substitute  salt, and other things for the mix will want to try your suggestion.  I'm trying to stay away from the salts, and water, if possible, as I can get a few mA, and over one volt with my dry aluminum/carbon-quartz cells, that don't need any water, or salt, doping, semiconductor, etz...
  I do hope that we can produce a higher output using the semiconductor idea, but I still have my doubts, as it's possible that it will only work at higher levels if they are being watered regularly.  Time will tell...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 22, 2011, 05:35:32 PM
 Ok, I wish I had a better camera for the results of one of my Modified IB cells. My version was of a folded heavy aluminum foil in the shape of a open ended tray. So I could cook the stuff in a pan and then add the graphite lead into the mix after it had cooked for a bit. The two electrodes were the Aluminum tray and graphite lead. They started out well until there was little water in the cell to do the galvanic reaction.


 I just dissected the cell to find a very strange occurring galvanic reaction had happened there. Instead of the usual black galvanic response the aluminum seemed to be eaten and consumed but not burnt. Etched might be a better word for it. The spots that were touching the aluminum looks to have been incorporated into the crystal structure that was being made at the closest connection between the aluminum and the crystal structure mix. The crystals that are forming seem to have this aluminum inside of their structure and have a grey tint to them.


 I'll try to get a photo of this but my camera hates close ups.

 *edit* Upon further looking at this process we just might want a galvanic reaction here. It seems to be doping the crystalline structure and a much different crystal is forming both physically and electrically. I am thinking in the beginning we want a galvanic reaction to disassemble the aluminum and incorporate it into it's structure. Maybe aluminum powder mixed into the mix might facilitate better growth into the crystals that form.

 Is the salt substitute responsible for the galvanic response or the alum ??? I am thinking of making a cell that has many many layers of aluminum + the salt substitute and alum with some borax thrown in for structure building. If I could get a more even response from the galvanic portion I might get a better mix of the aluminum into the crystals that are forming.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on November 22, 2011, 06:06:16 PM
Hi
jbignes5.

what is exactly your salt mix ?

Maybe before you use this aluminium foil,
just treat it in an electrolysis bath as the plus pole
( so it gets oxygen) and builds up a good protective oxide layer.
Then use only very few salt mix, so the distance between
graphite rod surface and the alufoil is under 1 mm.

Also you could try to dope the salt mix with additional graphite or lampblack powder
to make it more conductive.

A battery is like an electron pump, so the electrons have to move also from one electrode to the other internally
inside the battery, so you need also electrical  conduction for this !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 22, 2011, 06:18:01 PM
@hartiberlin


Have you been able to make the crystal glue cell? Its simple to make. All you need is Elmer's glue, salt substitute, and Epsom salt. Allow the mix to fully dry then either spray paint it or use liquid plastic that B-rads shows in his video so that the cell can be protected. Here's a video on how to make a cell, Its best to use copper and magnesium for the electrodes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ngFfU1hHyM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ngFfU1hHyM)


This cell can recharge itself back to original voltage, this is very unique effect to see. It is very important that the cell fully dries out and once fully dry it must be encased so it can be protected from the environment.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 22, 2011, 06:46:17 PM
Hi
jbignes5.

what is exactly your salt mix ?

Maybe before you use this aluminium foil,
just treat it in an electrolysis bath as the plus pole
( so it gets oxygen) and builds up a good protective oxide layer.
Then use only very few salt mix, so the distance between
graphite rod surface and the alufoil is under 1 mm.

Also you could try to dope the salt mix with additional graphite or lampblack powder
to make it more conductive.

A battery is like an electron pump, so the electrons have to move also from one electrode to the other internally
inside the battery, so you need also electrical  conduction for this !

Regards, Stefan.


 Borax, salt substitute, alum and a tad bit of epsom salts for the water it contains already. as the borax seems to protect the aluminum to a degree we need the aluminum to slowly decompose and join with the crystals. That is the conductive material besides salts it seems. My new test is with the same mix used in a borax protected inner coil of the aluminum. The outside is dribbled with the mix of what I specified above. I want a galvanic action going here to dope the crystal growth around the center graphite electrode with aluminum. This I assume forms little diode like crystal formations that form all the way through the mix. Like I said if I can get a hold of some aluminum power It might work easier.
 We will see. Test started today so it will take a week to get it to decompose the aluminum and form a crystal from that.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on November 22, 2011, 06:55:29 PM
P.S: The optimal cell will be a cell with just graphite ( or lampblack-paper) electrodes and
a salt mix between it.
Then we have no metals that will be abale to corrode.

I made a quick test for this a few months ago and got 0.35 Volts from
a cell having graphite paper as one electrode, table-saltwater as the elctrolyte
and the other electrode was composed out of a paste of lampblack  and
TiO2 put on a glas plate and heated and dried up via a candle .

So there was no metal in it that could corrode.
I will need to test this again, cause I did it in a hurry and did not
measure the short circuit current at this time and then the glas plate went broke,
so I have to redo this test soon.

This must be researched also with the Epsom Salt and Borax mixes, that
the others have been trying now here.

Also the Youtube user diveflyfish
has shown here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgMraWxlSoY
and here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1E45bMV9KY

It is just 2 graphite plates with a mix of
MOLTEN Zn0, EPSOMS, SILCA GEL, doped with GALINA, IRON PYRITE
between it.

So you see, it is possible to substitute the metals completely
with graphite ( lampblack) as the electrodes and thus
there will be no corrosion at all !

If we stack enough cells in series then we will also get enough power to
power a few LEDs already.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 22, 2011, 07:41:53 PM
 Yeah but it seems that the crystal that was formi8ng in my small IB cell was different. The thing is the aluminum looked like it was being digested into the crystals. This might have something to do with my cells being a tad bit stronger. Like a controlled burn of the aluminum. What was left over got incorporated into the crystal mix.


 The thing is this oxide once forms protects the aluminum. If we get aluminum that is broken up into finer particles these diode like membrane might add up exponentially... Like a billion little diodes all interconnected and all pointing in..

 *Update* From what I can see the aluminum is being decomposed by the electrolysis of the water. I have put a 4.5 volt tripple stack of aa batteries on the whole system and it has been boosting the electrolysis. In between those boosts the water slowly keeps doing the electrolysis but at a lower voltage. The running volts for the led head and cells are 2.57v(no real electrolysis) normal and in boost mode 2.61v (major electrolysis,rolling boil of the water).

 The water and crystals are now grey in color and seem to settle after the boost mode back to the 2.56-2.57 range. I'm thinking it takes quite some time to decompose all of the aluminum but I will keep you posted to the stats of this experiment as best I can.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on November 23, 2011, 06:25:08 PM
NickZ,
Just a moment to thank you for your insistence on encapsulating the cells we have been making.  Just a little over 4 months ago I took your suggestion and applied it to some of my cells.  Last night, I inspected several of those cells using a magnifying glass which helps me understand more fully what is happening.  I will report my observations and everyone is free to interpret anyway they wish.
 
Alum, heat treated copper, and magnesium:
Under the magnifying glass it is quite obvious that the Alum is being consumed.  There are some very large voids in the Alum fill.  The copper and magnesium appear to be in very good condition.
 
Glue cell, non treated copper, magnesium, Epsom Salt, Salt Substitute, and Elmer’s White Glue:
Very minimal indication that the glue mix is being consumed.  If the Alum cell was a 10 (worst) than the glue cell would be a 1.  The untreated copper is staining the mix green and the magnesium looks very good.  I do have some indication of the magnesium breaking down above the plastic but not embedded in the plastic. 
 
Glue cell, carbon, magnesium, Epsom Salt, Salt Substitute, and Elmer’s White Glue:
This is the best performing cell of the group.  1.48Volts and 1.6ma unloaded.  The carbon and magnesium are completely submerged in the plastic with SS screws protruding through the plastic for connectors.  I can not detect any deterioration in this cell.
 
Stove Top Cell:
These cells are not as old as the Glue Cells and I will reserve observations on these until they have the same maturity as the cell I have already reported on.
 
Further Experiments:
I plan to remake the glue cell using heat treated copper.  I will be going after the Red Oxide as I wish to avoid using heat in the cell.  For a better understanding of this statement you can look at:
http://thesciencecupboard.com/page3.htm (http://thesciencecupboard.com/page3.htm)
 
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 23, 2011, 07:21:32 PM


 Ok I have hit the next stage of the build. I have gotten all the aluminum the crystals can stand around the graphite lead. I dissected the unit and inspected the aluminum around the electrode. There was a good amount of the aluminum gone. The blackening of the aluminum is from the shinny side of the aluminum. Whatever that is it turns black. I'm thinking I have created a very efficient nano particle aluminum. The mix I got out of the last unit blended very well when I subjected it to 10 second microwave burst (kitchen appliance). The mix never really got too hot but it did warm the plastic jar I am using. I think it is 4 oz jar size. The amount I got back out of the porcess was way less then I started with but it is now colored grey. I think it took 3 shots of 10 seconds in the microwave range before the mix started to become pliable and very thick like honey. Thats where I stopped and put the new Graphite lead in the center with an aluminum ring around that. The negative is the aluminum. And the Graphite is the collector or higher voltage electrode that gets its potential rise from the focusing inwards. I think this has lowered the voltage but increased the pressure it can provide. At least in the beginning of it's cooling phase so far. My running voltage is 2.5v steady now. As for the current I wouldn't know till I get a analogue one. Thats next on the list as well.


 The new unit is still growing so we will see..
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 23, 2011, 11:09:12 PM
   b_rads:
   I think that carbon is a better conductor and may be the best anode material, not prone to the oxidation factor, and so more apt for salt electrolytes. So, long as even Air get into the cell there it is going to be some galvanics, as it's the oxygen that is behind the break down of the metals.

The small pencil leads are very brittle but they work great for this, the bigger pencil leads are probably better as they wont break as easily.  As air or water is going to ruin most of these cells in time,  carbon will go the whole way, hopefully. Whatever semiconductor treatment we apply on the Mg or Al, it has to be able to conduct ions, but not regular electricity.  These cell are not just big diodes, or capacitor, or batteries, but are similar to all of them.  Field energies, instead of galvanics, its a constant influx of energy, there is no real charging or discharging as some still assume. Nor are regular galvanic batteries able to provide a constant output, without discharging themselves, or even increase under load, as some of these cells CAN DO. 
  IB2 had mentioned that so long as there is no oxygen getting into the cell there was no visible oxidation.   I agree, as that is what it looks like, at least at low current levels.  But at 1 to 2 ams, who knows...

  Brad, thanks for the tip on the casing resin, and waiting for the cell to dry out first.  The hydrogen gas bubbles can break right through the resin and corrode the outside of the electrodes.  Conductive or marine dielectric grease for the outside terminals can also help, if these cells are not hermetic, they won't last for long...  I would play around with more carbon/Mg cells.  Except that it is hard to find the magnesium here, so I have to use aluminum, the bigger capacitor cans work good for that.
  I have to add another coat of glue on my hot dog cell, as it actually blows geyser holes blows right through the glue, and begins to dissolve the aluminum wire into a grey mush. Still might last for months, but not what I want to see. It needs to be bone dry then quick sealed, or its a dripping mess of salty water.
 I think that to make a cell using a thick Mg can as the cathode with carbon cores as the anodes, and thin layers of totally dry crystal salts electroylte, all sealed up hermetically, (with no watering hole), can be one of the best ways to go.
  By the time we figure out how to make a real permanent output cell, China will be selling them at 2 for a buck, with 3 year guarantee.  Maybe that's what I'm waiting for...  except that they'll really cost $39.95, each. 
                               
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 23, 2011, 11:21:15 PM

One big reason why I say to spray paint or encase the crystal glue cells is that I’ve seen increase in power. The increase is small, one cell went from 1.470 volts @ 26 micro-amps to 1.474 volts 30micro-amps. It was small increase but any increase is important when you consider that encasing the cell puts it even further away from the moisture in the air. So not only does encasing the cell keep it alive longer but it seems to increase power too. [/font]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 25, 2011, 02:33:10 PM
 @nick and IB.


 Keep going with your back and forth on Energetic forum. You are figuring it out little by little. I too agree that these crystal batteries are very akin to the captret. Work this out and you will know what to do from then on. I can't join you on that forum but it is very interesting and I'm following the conversation pretty good.


 This is what me and IB did. We discussed the reasons for the captret effect. When we started using the can as the neg connector we found we could slipstream some power off. I'm thinking it is because of the diode like effect in it. It is a polarized device. The neg plate should be less polarized or even neutral of a conductor. It's ambient state is and average of the environment it is in electrically. The positive is the driving force in the polarized electrolytic cap. The captret allowed an led or sometimes banks of leds to run for very little current. The batteries I used were old dead 7 AH batteries with a standing voltage of 9.7 volts. My test of the slipstream effect was to use the connections exactly the way they were marked on the cap. the neg was attached to the can and only the positive was connected to the positive of the cap. The load then went to the positive and negative respectfully on the capacitor. Electrolysis happened on the end of the can and grew it's own oxide layer on the bottom of the can. I have since found out that when this electrolysis happens it ruins the effect. I thought having nano particles of aluminum would help the conduction paths and it doesn't it ruins the effect of the crystal cell!


 This is why the captrets failed after a few powerful tries. It is why they burst. It eats it's way to the cuts in the end of the can and it blows prematurely. All the while that the nano particles of aluminum are starting to short out the effect we are looking for. The electrolysis is the reason for the failure of the captret to maintain it's power splitting ability or induced flow cycle. If we prevent electrolysis and galvanic response then we have the perfect source.
 Of course in my opinion we should just use the oxidation layer. Yes it eats a portion of the metal but when the crust is formed it seems stronger. Please understand what this device is about. It's crystallized, it has a pyramidal shape with the biggest area of it's mass is attached to the metal. This diverts all incoming flows 90 degrees in a dissipating radius. Of course there will be movement across that face. Interference patterns would be extremely easy to simulate in today's computers. Growth of these layers needs to be honed and practiced. We are bumbling through this process like a bull in a china store. It doesn't block current it diverts it away from the metal and it induces a flow in the process...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 26, 2011, 04:18:51 AM
   Guys:
   Ok, I finally bought another volt meter but could not find the right analog one, lilke the one I had, so I bought a small digital one. At least I'll be able to report some voltages again.
   One good thing that I could read from my new meter was that my big capacitor cell using beach sand and cement that I made almost a year ago, is still at  over a volt, and 22 mA, it holds steady at 10 mA after 10 seconds or so.  And compared to the hot dog cell which is giving 0.506 volts, but, 58mA, and holds at 33mA after 10 seconds. Two totally different cells, together they give 1.5 volts. but only the lowest cells mA reading at 10mA.  One cell is good at current output, and the other is ok at voltage.
It's very important to match the cells, otherwise you end up with the lowest cells current levels, just like if it were a pinched hose.
                                       NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 26, 2011, 02:10:32 PM
   Guys:
   Ok, I finally bought another volt meter but could not find the right analog one, lilke the one I had, so I bought a small digital one. At least I'll be able to report some voltages again.
   One good thing that I could read from my new meter was that my big capacitor cell using beach sand and cement that I made almost a year ago, is still at  over a volt, and 22 mA, it holds steady at 10 mA after 10 seconds or so.  And compared to the hot dog cell which is giving 0.506 volts, but, 58mA, and holds at 33mA after 10 seconds. Two totally different cells, together they give 1.5 volts. but only the lowest cells mA reading at 10mA.  One cell is good at current output, and the other is ok at voltage.
It's very important to match the cells, otherwise you end up with the lowest cells current levels, just like if it were a pinched hose.
                                       NickZ


 Yes and I'm starting to believe the pinch is the cause for electrolysis if water is present and galvanics as well..
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 27, 2011, 11:21:03 PM
  I could be wrong but it seams that if there is no air, like in a totally sealed cell, there can't be an electrolysis reaction. This needs to be confirmed.
   I'm still working  with the Carbon/Quarts cells.  I find that with just a small piece or plain beach wood carbon, and a small piece of aluminum I can generate about one volt of power.  If I use a carbon rod as the anode, sometimes 1.2 volts,  and without the carbon rod I can get about 0.770 volts with Just two things, the Aluminum and Carbon, ONLY.  No additional electrolyte, no salts,  No Water, and no oxidation.
  With a better and more conducive grade of carbon and pure magnesium, I'm sure that cell voltages of 1.5 volts or higher can be easily obtained, possibly for a very long time. The cell size would determines the current levels, but even small to tiny dry Carbon/Quartz Aluminum/ cells can produce good voltage levels.  Anyways, that's what I'm working on...
   Any ideas such as which carbon may be the best to use for the cells, are welcome.
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 28, 2011, 01:16:44 AM
@nickz


"I could be wrong but it seams that if there is no air, like in a totally sealed cell, there can't be an electrolysis reaction.[/size] "[/size]


I thought the same thing too, but I don't fully understand it either. I know that a lead acid battery gets its voltage from the making of H2O, and when you charge the battery you're splitting the the H2O up. A battery is nothing more than a Hydrogen Fuel cell, where it combines with oxygen to make electricity and water. When you supply power to recharge a battery it creates electrolysis where it splits the water up and when you need power they come back together to make water and electricity. When you have too much water you don't have enough acid(ions) thus you battery dies until you charge it again.




For your cell i know you use aluminum and carbon as the electrode, but what is the electrolyte? Is it just burnt wood from the beach? beach sand? I've tried charcoal briquettes but i only get 3 milli-volts at the most unless i put water on it then i get about 700mV.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 28, 2011, 02:39:02 AM
    Guys:
   There are only two items Aluminum, and Carbon, in my cells, just those two items will give me about 3/4 volt, but if I add the carbon rod, I get higher voltages, over one volt.  This is the point that I'm trying to make, there is No Electrolyte, as none is needed. It surprises me too. 
The carbons conductivity is important, as there are a thousand types of carbon, and they are all different. The carbon rods and aluminum cathode by themselves will not generate any power at all, (0 volts, 0mA). It needs the wood carbon, as the electrolyte, if you want to call it that. A cell will still work without the carbon rod as the anodes, but it does need the wood carbon and the aluminum or Mg as the cathode. Like I said before... try it you'll like it.  Carbon is where its at... quartz helps, but is not essential.
My original capacitor cells now several months old are still generating 1.234 volts.  Time will tell, and it has...  I'll make a video one of these days, but, I'm still tinkering on it. 
  Dry cells are not as easy to get higher outputs from, but I'm getting there.  I may have to just make more of them, that's all.
 
                                          NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 28, 2011, 02:33:35 PM


 Umm doesn't wood have crystalline material from the sap??? There is an electrolyte you just don't know it lol. Using water before you make the layers is very important. The squeeze or pressure will help dry it out and it should become more solid after it dries. I wouldn't use the battery till it is all the way dry because of electrolysis or galvanic reaction. This is why you should oxidize the aluminum first because it can help with the galvanic response and protect the aluminum while it dries.

 Oh on a sidenote the first battery I made is back again, letting it rest fixed it.

 Here is an interesting find. I have 4 in series which runs a 5.5 volts led light head. Usually the voltage drop is around 2.5-2.7 volts across the led. When i disconnected the negative for the batteries my hands touched the wires and it lit up a bit. The volt meter started going up from 1.5 volts to just under full capability of 2.5 volts. This connection made through my hands and arms was very unexpected. No sensation at all from that connection.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 28, 2011, 04:40:20 PM
   Guys:
    I've heard of other people trying the charcoal briquettes along with a piece of magnesium, and have gotten 1.3 volts.  And some others have tried the aquarium charcoal.  The important thing with the carbon is that is needs to conduct well, or it won't work. To conduct it needs to be pressed together, and not loose powder.
 Normally one would combine the carbon powder with linseed oil and mineral spirits (to thin the oil) and make the carbon rod, or carbon plate, etz..  I just wanted to try it totally dry pressed inside of a capacitor can,  and it does work. But, the carbon powder needs to be pressed down hard to compress it as much as possible.
  There is no sap or resin left in a piece of carbon, as all the wood has been carbonized, along with anything else that was in it, so this is dry stuff, but different from the carbon rods that I've used, or the pencil leads. One can dope the pulverized carbon with graphite powder, quartz, aquamarine, or whatever work to raise the output.  The semiconductor treatment on the aluminum capacitor can wouldn't hurt,either. It is best to use magnesium cathodes if possible, or just add an extra cell to the line up, to get the same voltage

I just made two very small dry carbon capacitor cells, and am getting 0.93 volts from each, and 1.91 volts from both of these cells in series, and 9 mA from each cell.  Which for their size (1/4 " by  3/4" is not bad. 
I've made those two cells small as I'm still trying out different things. I had put white glue on top to seal them, and this morning after resting all night both cells has a blow hole in the glue, just like the hot dog cell has done. This can be from the wet watery glue touching  both the anode as well as the cathode, I believe.  In the future I'll use the clear 5 minute E-poxy to seal them, as it does not conduct.
 This is the proof that I was looking for, that even these dry cells can produce hydrogen gas (and water). Once the water in the glue drys out completely, there should be no more gas venting, or will there be?  I'll soon find out... as this gas venting from the electrolysis action may be the root of both our oxidation, and lowering output problems, over time.
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 28, 2011, 04:54:36 PM
    Jbigness5:
   Finally someone sees the same thing as I've been seeing...  that the led will light on a one wire connection.
I'm very much into working to exploit that effect, to the max.
 Dr. Stiffler's thread deals with what I believe to be the same or similar thing. "Voltage out of thin air"
Like with his PSEC devices or coils set ups.   But, to make 100 leds or more to light at full brightness, takes a bit more work, though.  But I'm very exited about it, and that is what occupies my mind much of the time.
                                                                                        NickZ
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 28, 2011, 05:03:59 PM



 I got pure carbon from an art store. I have tried reading the resistance and it is very conductive. I am suspecting that it should do very well in the can. I'm gonna protect the aluminum or magnesium with pre-oxidation. So that removes galvanic. Not having water in the final unit will be the results. I am gonna use it to layer the different materials then bake the unit to release the water and help setup the internal structure. It will of course have a special end cap to facilitate this procedure and be seal-able once the water is removed fully or as best as we can get it. I am thinking these batteries will need a special protective diode to keep a reverse voltage from reversing and causing any water left in the unit from doing electrolysis as well. Once we guard against these problems I'm sure there are others to be solved.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 28, 2011, 05:30:07 PM
  The carbon from the art store sounds good, and should work well.  I would also try one cell as a test without the semiconductor treatment to see how it compares to one with the treatment. Use some e-poxy on top of the rubber plug to further help to seal it up, making sure the area around the outside of the electrodes is also well sealed. The rubber plug on top of the capacitor can by itself is not enough to make a proper hermetic seal.
 
   Try putting a single ground wire to an outside stake in the ground,  it will substitute you having to hold the end of the 4 cells leds for them to light.  Play with that,  as that is where the magic is at...  and will show you that the cells are also working in a non-galvanic way,  as I've been saying all along. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 28, 2011, 05:50:36 PM
  Forgot to place a picture of my tiny new cell, each dry cell has about a volt, and 9 or 10mA.
Can you picture a bunch of them mounted on a pc board, feeding an oscillator circuit?
                                                                                                                                   NZ

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on November 28, 2011, 07:54:29 PM
Hi NickZ,

the best cheaply available conductive carbon is still
lampblack or graphite powder which is sold for painters..
So you get it in a painter materials shop.
Or you can do the lampblack yourself by using many candles
and let the flames blacken on a stainless steel plate above
or something simular.

Also you can heat up and red glow coal briketts
and before they are totally burned up and already have some white ash on the outside,
the inner black powder is converted to real graphite.
So if you let them cool down then and remove the outer ash, inside you have very
good conductive graphite.


But in these batteries the alufoil or alucase will be consumed sooner or
later, but the lampblack or graphite will not be consumed.

The moisture of the air already is enough to get the galvanic acting
starting..
If you add K2CO3 soluted in tap water as the electrolyte you get around 1.5 Volts
from these cells and you only consume the Aluminium.
Then they have real good power also..


Hope this helps.


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on November 28, 2011, 08:02:10 PM
Something like this:

www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-Lampblack-500-gm-Fisher-/320770612878 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-Lampblack-500-gm-Fisher-/320770612878)

but in painters shops you get it more cheaply probably,
cause this one is pretty pure...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 28, 2011, 10:40:58 PM


 Yeah Go for it! Anything you get for free is still free right?

 I'm hoping to quell the aluminum corrosion with pre oxided aluminum. Or maybe oil additive like nick suggested?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 29, 2011, 12:10:13 AM
   @ Stephan and All:
    Thank you for your reply.  I have already done something similar to what you are mentioning concerning the briquettes.  I take the carbon from the beach wood fires, that conducts well, and use that. It has already been well burnt to coals on the outside and the inside has also been carbonized.  It works ok, but I'll still look for the graphite powder to combine with it, as well as any other item that might be added to help raise the output.
   If there is any air available to the cells, electrolysis action will still create water, and also oxidation of any metals used. But, just like a diode can produce an output without the galvanics action, or the hydrogen that gets converted to water in the cells, I am trying to achieve a similar effect with these cells.  I don't know if it is possible or not, but I'm aiming to find out.
   I think that the semiconductor treatment may be the answer to the aluminum or magnesium corrosion problem, at least I hope so.  The carbon pencil leads have already been proven to provide very good output when used as anodes, but without the use of the carbon (or salts as the electrolyte) they do not produce anything at all, as they will short out between both poles, killing the dipole effect. Not so with carbon as the electrolyte.
  Carbon/Carbon cells although will still work to a degree, will not produce enough output comparatively, to make them worth the effort. The best electro-negative combination is Carbon/Magnesium. So, we really should stick with that...  as the real cause of this voltage and current, is found in the difference of the voltage potentials of the two different materials. The implementation and use of the semiconductor idea with these cells, may also help improve those results dramatically. Not just with the control of the oxidation factor, but possibly providing for a much higher output as well. 
                                                                                                                     NickZ
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 29, 2011, 04:14:37 AM
   @ Stephan and All:
    Thank you for your reply.  I have already done something similar to what you are mentioning concerning the briquettes.  I take the carbon from the beach wood fires, that conducts well, and use that. It has already been well burnt to coals on the outside and the inside has also been carbonized.  It works ok, but I'll still look for the graphite powder to combine with it, as well as any other item that might be added to help raise the output.
   If there is any air available to the cells, electrolysis action will still create water, and also oxidation of any metals used. But, just like a diode can produce an output without the galvanics action, or the hydrogen that gets converted to water in the cells, I am trying to achieve a similar effect with these cells.  I don't know if it is possible or not, but I'm aiming to find out.
   I think that the semiconductor treatment may be the answer to the aluminum or magnesium corrosion problem, at least I hope so.  The carbon pencil leads have already been proven to provide very good output when used as anodes, but without the use of the carbon (or salts as the electrolyte) they do not produce anything at all, as they will short out between both poles, killing the dipole effect. Not so with carbon as the electrolyte.
  Carbon/Carbon cells although will still work to a degree, will not produce enough output comparatively, to make them worth the effort. The best electro-negative combination is Carbon/Magnesium. So, we really should stick with that...  as the real cause of this voltage and current, is found in the difference of the voltage potentials of the two different materials. The implementation and use of the semiconductor idea with these cells, may also help improve those results dramatically. Not just with the control of the oxidation factor, but possibly providing for a much higher output as well. 
                                                                                                                     NickZ
 
Now you are seeing it like I said. You might want to go the route of the anti water nano glass beads! They repel water pretty good. But I think the process is much higher in cost. Glass would form a layer like a layden jar and that might do the trick. Induction would be the only way to pass energy and that only takes a voltage potential like the metal difference you talk about. What have you done with the sand, do you mix it together in the carbon blending the two or layer it?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 29, 2011, 05:43:33 PM
 I wanted to see the wave forms that these diodes are converting. To my surprise I found an ac voltage that exactly doubled the whole potential of these batteries across the terminals. Could someone confirm this?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 29, 2011, 06:04:24 PM
    I use only these items to make my cells: wood carbon and aluminum capacitor cans, and carbon rods or pencil leads as the anodes,  but no sand.
    I had used beach sand to make the original cement cell bank, only. Which are still working, and still outputting over a volt each cell. They have been a long running cell, but have lost 1/2 their mA levels, due to oxydation.
   I really want to stay away from the use of salts, but if we find that a much higher output can be obtained, and that the salt electrolyte can be sealed to allow no water to contaminate the cell, I may give that a try.  If I can locate the Epsom, salt sub, etz...  I'm still waiting to see the long term results that JB, Jim, B-rads and others are coming up with.
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 29, 2011, 06:20:54 PM
    I use only these items to make my cells: wood carbon and aluminum capacitor cans, and carbon rods or pencil leads as the anodes,  but no sand.
    I had used beach sand to make the original cement cell bank, only. Which are still working, and still outputting over a volt each cell. They have been a long running cell, but have lost 1/2 their mA levels, due to oxydation.
   I really want to stay away from the use of salts, but if we find that a much higher output can be obtained, and that the salt electrolyte can be sealed to allow no water to contaminate the cell, I may give that a try.  If I can locate the Epsom, salt sub, etz...  I'm still waiting to see the long term results that JB, Jim, B-rads and others are coming up with.
 


 Try to stay away from salts with huge amounts of water in them like epsoms salts. I would stay with the piezoelectric crystals.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 29, 2011, 07:09:48 PM

So I took my own advice and tried putting a cell in the oven and cooking the water out of it. But instead of using a oven i used a blowtorch since it gives a more direct and higher temperature than a oven would. I boiled all the water out and kept the torch on it till the material started to burn. I checked voltage and it was higher than normal showing that these cells are affected by heat. To be sure I put the blow torch on the cell one more time and still got the same results. At these temperatures Its hard for water to exist, so the leads me to think my cells are not using water.


I'm calling it the blowtorch cell, its like the crystal glue cell but it lacks glue. The blow torch cell uses Epsom salt and salt substitute with copper and magnesium electrodes.


I will be uploading a video of the new cell and me cooking it with a blowtorch.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 29, 2011, 10:38:55 PM
  My new little carbon/aluminum cells are almost ready to be used, but the glue that I placed on top is still drying. They are now read over a volt each, but their current output is still being affected by the water in the glue, until it drys. I didn't want to put these cell in the oven, I'd rather just give them some time. I should have used the 5 minute E-poxy, but I had white glue on hand. 
  I'll probably need to make a couple more cells so that I can light a white led with them. Actually if you need to have 4 volts to light an led, you problably need at least 6 volts output  from these cells, as they drop in votage by half or more as soon as they are connected to the leds.

 
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 30, 2011, 02:12:59 AM

Taking a blow torch to a cell was not good enough for some and it was suggested to bake the cell in the oven. So I took Epsom salt and Salt substitute with copper and magnesium electrodes and put it the oven for 30 minutes at 400 degrees F. I did get a higher increase in voltage just like the blowtorch cells but the voltage is not the same as the blowtorch cell. The amps were much lower too. Don't know if the blowtorch cell had such a sudden increase in temp and it jump in power or what. I think the cell that was cooked in the oven was a fair test to see if water is trapped in the cell. About 1.520 volts @ 50 micro-amps is what I got from a cell that was in the oven for 30 minutes being cooked at 400 degrees F. These results are not that bad, this high heat and long time should have killed the cell.


 I will be uploading a video soon on the oven dried cell.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 30, 2011, 03:18:53 AM

Crystal cell cooked in over for 30 minutes @ 400 degrees F


http://youtu.be/qg2wwmAxR1c

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 30, 2011, 03:56:20 AM
Give the cell some time to rest before stressing it. Let it form it's structure first based on the metals present. Let it grow before doing any work with it. Just leave it for a few days even.


 My test with the aluminum can from a cap and carbon is going good I guess. I am still waiting for it to dry. I used water only as a binder and compactor for the carbon. I have been tamping the carbon to make it give it's water up and compacting the carbon. It it pretty solid right now and is just about to be dry enough for the test. Maybe a few days more then a final low level drying in the oven. It's a slow process but it is coming along. Initial tests were .3 volts but it is still wet. I am not gonna stress it yet.


 On the other hand I found out these crystalline batteries are AC batteries. Usually higher in voltage then you get from the dc side. I am running a bridge rectifier off of the ac voltage and feeding that to a capacitor running a bright white led. The thing is it isn't hurting the dc side. Please measure across several batteries and see if there is an ac signal there at double the voltage of the dc value. If there is then run it through a bridge rectifier and do what I have done. This method does not seem to hurt the batteries???


 With 4 batteries running the ac load they top out at 3.02 dc volts solid. When I swap to ac I get a reading of 5.6 volts steady... With the bridge rectifier in the system it shouldn't work if there is no ac present. But it does For some odd reason. Where is this ac coming from, emf radiation from my house?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 30, 2011, 07:44:14 AM
  I don't add any water at all,  just with the compresed wood carbon inside the capacitor can, I get 0.88v, and they go up from there. If you add a carbon rod or pencil lead they'll go over a volt.  Yesterday before I put the glue on top of the cells to seal them I got almost 2 volts (1.93v), in series. Which I though was not bad for there size, just right after they were made.

  If you use Ib salt mix inside a capacitor can, with a lead pencil lead anode you should get 1.5 volts, or so, and who knows how many mA.
 
   Ib2: What is the blue cell reading now?   I still can't believe that you're getting 400+mA. I hope it lasts.
   My hot dog cell has shorted out from the final coat of glue application, so I'm waiting for it to dry out.  It takes a while...
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Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 30, 2011, 02:13:42 PM
  I don't add any water at all,  just with the compresed wood carbon inside the capacitor can, I get 0.88v, and they go up from there. If you add a carbon rod or pencil lead they'll go over a volt.  Yesterday before I put the glue on top of the cells to seal them I got almost 2 volts (1.93v), in series. Which I though was not bad for there size, just right after they were made.

  If you use Ib salt mix inside a capacitor can, with a lead pencil lead anode you should get 1.5 volts, or so, and who knows how many mA.
 
   Ib2: What is the blue cell reading now?   I still can't believe that you're getting 400+mA. I hope it lasts.
   My hot dog cell has shorted out from the final coat of glue application, so I'm waiting for it to dry out.  It takes a while...
Yeah I know nick about the water. The only reason I am using water is because of the carbon. When I added it to the water it skinned the water . It was a metallic reflection and looked really cool. I wanted to bake it but even at 200 degrees it fluffed up like a cake. It did get rid of a lot of water. So I tamped it down like you do with sand and kept pulling the water to the surface and it allowed me to compact the carbon around the graphite 5.6 mm lead. It still is showing only .36volts but I highly doubt it is completely dry. Last night I stored it in the bottom of the oven which has a pilot light. That kept it to about 100 degrees or so all night.


 I made two mixes of carbon and alum. Carbon and Potassium. I might give the can when I try these mixes a light coating of borax to protect the aluminum. I still havent figured that out.


 I did oxiclean the can which should have oxidized the aluminum to better protect it from the water. We will see...


 Did you happen to try and check for the ac signal I am seeing on my IB cells?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 30, 2011, 04:04:33 PM
  What I have to do with the beach wood carbon is test each piece for conductivity, as much of it is not very good as a conducting medium, but some is.
My hot dog cell, now is at 0.90 volt when last night it was a  0 volt, 0 mA, due to the coat of white glue applied to seal the blow holes that it had. It just blew more holes, but the mA reading is still way down.

 If you can add Linseed oil and mineral spirits to dilute the oil, and mix that with the carbon, you can also press the carbon into any mold. It does need to dry out after that for some days. But the mineral spirits are what allow it evaporate quicker.  Anyways, thats what I've heard, but have not needed to do any of it.  Although adding something like graphite powder, or other things to the electrolyte mix can help to increase the current, and is why I add quartz, but sand may work as well. I've also added a pinch of pulverized sea shells, so it's a matter of trying it all out, but the main thing is finding the right carbon for these cells.

   You'll find that the reason that there can be a one wire connection with your 4 cell set up still dimly lighting an led, is due to the AC house power, so if you turn off the breakers,  you'll  see the one wire connection to your cells will not light as before. 
  I would imagine that since the cells are also antennas, that if the cell geometry and dimensions are tuned just right, they would be able to pick up more energy from the ambient, than just what two short dissimilar pieces of Mg/Cu wires can do. And this may happen at the nano scale as well.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 30, 2011, 04:38:21 PM
  What I have to do with the beach wood carbon is test each piece for conductivity, as much of it is not very good as a conducting medium, but some is.
My hot dog cell, now is at 0.90 volt when last night it was a  0 volt, 0 mA, due to the coat of white glue applied to seal the blow holes that it had. It just blew more holes, but the mA reading is still way down.

 If you can add Linseed oil and mineral spirits to dilute the oil, and mix that with the carbon, you can also press the carbon into any mold. It does need to dry out after that for some days. But the mineral spirits are what allow it evaporate quicker.  Anyways, thats what I've heard, but have not needed to do any of it.  Although adding something like graphite powder, or other things to the electrolyte mix can help to increase the current, and is why I add quartz, but sand may work as well. I've also added a pinch of pulverized sea shells, so it's a matter of trying it all out, but the main thing is finding the right carbon for these cells.

   You'll find that the reason that there can be a one wire connection with your 4 cell set up still dimly lighting an led, is due to the AC house power, so if you turn off the breakers,  you'll  see the one wire connection to your cells will not light as before. 
  I would imagine that since the cells are also antennas, that if the cell geometry and dimensions are tuned just right, they would be able to pick up more energy from the ambient, than just what two short dissimilar pieces of Mg/Cu wires can do. And this may happen at the nano scale as well.


 I was thinking about oils as well. And this might be what is causing your intermittent conduction problems. Probably viens of sap that increse the conduction.


 The connection to my setup is this.


 5 cells in series. Connected in the normal fashion to a bridge rectifier then to a cap and led parallel connection. I have tons of devices that use ac and have exposed the batteries to them all and no rise in ac voltage. If this was an inductive process the voltage would increase with the increased exposure to the source. Nothing seems to affect the signal including high voltage sources like my led monitor. The back light is high voltage. Like I said I don't understand how this could be done. Maybe an inductive fear cage would shield it totally from emf radiation in the ac field but I am having a hard time finding the source. I think I need an emf meter and see what the fields are like in here just to rule it out. There is only two feeder lines to my room and they are on the opposite side of the room from me.


 This ac signal is not done by one wire I am getting it from both terminals of the 5 battery set. The normal dc voltage is 2.97 volts dc. When I switch it to ac I get 5.4 volts ac. The batteries tends to stay around there slowly going up and down as the day wears on. The weird thing is the batteries still needs to rest because of lower current but the voltage stays about the same.


 When I look at the scope across the battery I can see the pulses. I got to see what frequency this is. I have a wireless router as well so that might be it too and wireless phones.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 30, 2011, 06:12:24 PM
  It may not make sense but it is caused by the fact that the ground and neutral lines inside the house run parallel to the positive AC lines and do transfer some juice by induction or capacitance to the ground lines. This type of energy can travel across surfaces, like tables, tile floors, etz...  All it takes to test it is to turn off the house breakers.  I was trying to make that dim led light up brighter, on just one wire connection, by using coils and inductors, but I have not been able to, yet.  In anycase, I'm looking for the real ambient pulse and not the AC or Fm frequency sources. It is as illusive as it gets,  but it was fun playing with that effect, and is good training for the real thing.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on November 30, 2011, 07:24:25 PM


 Well it's funny that I have a lamp right next to it and when I switch it on it degrades the ac signal or dampens it. Weird.. It's doesn't make any sense. Our Ac system is somehow interfering with whatever these things are receiving. Hmm.. I turn the light off and the signal gets stronger or more pronounced. I might have to check the ground of the scope to make sure I am not getting slight hums from anything else. I'll have to smooth it out with a capacitor or something like that.

 Also if I disconnect the voltage meter the led gets brighter.. Hmmm... So we can't measure the device for some reason. Well not with regular devices.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on November 30, 2011, 07:49:16 PM
 You need to make an AV plug to really see the effects. I connect one ground wire (outside earth ground) to one side of the AV plug, and go touch this and that...
 
  You'll see what I mean if you turn off the house breakers, the dim led on the 5 cells will go out.

  I wanted to combine the cells input along with the ground input, to see if I can make the dim led get brighter, but it was like adding water to oil, and I could not get them to add up. Two different incompatible frequencies.  I'm just learning about this stuff, but the trick is to tap the right natural frequency and not just  the man made ones, as those can all stop working and fail, at any time. If the natural frequencies fail, it's time to look for a better place to live.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on November 30, 2011, 08:42:15 PM
Guys its normal to see a AC voltage on a cell, A digital meters do this. Even hooking a AA battery up to a digital meter to read its AC voltage will show almost double the voltage than a DC voltage. But swap the polarity on the AC meter and you'll get no voltage, if it was truly AC voltage then you would get a voltage even when you switch the polarity. Hooking any type of diode to the cell will have it affected by the electromagnetic radiation that's in the house.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 01, 2011, 02:48:44 AM
Guys its normal to see a AC voltage on a cell, A digital meters do this. Even hooking a AA battery up to a digital meter to read its AC voltage will show almost double the voltage than a DC voltage. But swap the polarity on the AC meter and you'll get no voltage, if it was truly AC voltage then you would get a voltage even when you switch the polarity. Hooking any type of diode to the cell will have it affected by the electromagnetic radiation that's in the house.


 But why is there a signal. I can also see a signal on my scope. it is around 100k a second and they are pulses I see them in the range of 10 uS on the scope. That is micro seconds. The funny thing is I don't see this on the carbon battery nick. The signal is flat. But when I added it to the other batteries it did boost the led brightness. So maybe they are the stronger heavy current types.


 The carbon I am using is not the right kind. I'm thinking it will need the quartz to boost the voltage. It should be like the more you use it the better it conducts. I am starting to understand why you asked me about the water. You want the little crystals from the shavings. After I cut the carbon up I mushed it till it got like graphite power. It is still everywhere! Rofl...


 I was thinking we could print these out? Then stack them together around the center electrode. then insert them into a carbon lined container? Having every other layers smaller and bigger will allow for better staying power. Remember wave guides that whistle in the wind. The wind in this case is polarized charges flowing trough the aluminum or magnesium and into the carbon. The vacuum of current causes a flow into itself and around the center electrode. If we put the crystal layers in the way they will vibrate like the dickens giving us plenty of voltage. The good thing is this carbon is like an ink when you use water or maybe the stuff in ink? Like mineral oil? Linseed oil?


 The crystals you are gonna want dry but stuck together maybe ceramics?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 01, 2011, 04:44:00 AM
 IB since I can't reply to your comment on the other forum I'll say it here.


An analogue meter is passive. Besides low coil resistance the meter is sensitive. I'm going analogue again also. You can see the flow of current better.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 02, 2011, 05:03:38 PM



 Hey what if we used crushed up graphite and carbon? You know a blend of the two... We could use a pure graphite center electrode again with the aluminum or magnesium can.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 02, 2011, 07:25:54 PM
  The pulverized carbon can be combined with many things, like I do by adding layers of quartz along with it. Graphite powder combined with carbon may work better than just the carbon. It's worth trying. But the main thing is finding the best carbon to use, or no matter what you add to it, it will still be a weak cell.
   To answer your question about the AC readings on the cells: My last small carbon/aluminum cells output 94mV on DC, and 1.250 or so on the AC setting on my meter.  So, the AC setting shows a higher output than the DC output, sometimes almost twice as much. But, the leds will still only light to the same intensity regardless of what the meter reads.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 02, 2011, 07:53:55 PM
  The pulverized carbon can be combined with many things, like I do by adding layers of quartz along with it. Graphite powder combined with carbon may work better than just the carbon. It's worth trying. But the main thing is finding the best carbon to use, or no matter what you add to it, it will still be a weak cell.
   To answer your question about the AC readings on the cells: My last small carbon/aluminum cells output 94mV on DC, and 1.250 or so on the AC setting on my meter.  So, the AC setting shows a higher output than the DC output, sometimes almost twice as much. But, the leds will still only light to the same intensity regardless of what the meter reads.


 The carbon cell I have made is very low level voltage .45 now but it seems that the pure carbon method is not gonna cut it. When I Look at the dc side it is.45 volts and the ac side say .4 so this doesn't make sense. But when I measure a crystal battery it reads like normal 1.26 volts dc and 1.9 ac??? It doesn't make sense...

 Also about different mixes. Adding any electrolyte to the carbon seems to make it eat the aluminum even though it is dry. I mixed carbon and potassium and it ate the aluminum.. Even without water. My alum and carbon got knocked over so I don't know the results of that. I also put a thick layer of silica beads over the carbon to dry it out further. This worked well but I think it is still wet a bit.
 The can still looks good so we will have to wait till I dissect the carbon out and check it's formations...

 *edit found the other mix and they both ate aluminum foil when mixed with carbon. Maybe we should mix in the borax into the carbon with potassium or alum..
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on December 02, 2011, 10:52:52 PM
Quote from: NickZ
B-rads- I believe that the correct direction or flow of current in our cells is opposite to the pipeline polarity. And is like the Wikipedia explanation that I linked to before, under their heading "Other anodes and cathodes" that have polarity like diodes, semiconductors, electrolytic capacitors, and such as our cells. Electrode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 @Nick
Sorry to respond to your questions here, but I simply am not comfortable discussing this stuff at ef. The reference cited is referring to primary galvanic cells. I agree that if it can ever be indisputably proven that Ib’s cells are not galvanic then I think your reference to anode and cathode is correct. If it is proven that they are galvanic then I believe the cited information would be correct. In galvanic, a sacrificial electrode is referred to as the anode. It takes much more knowledge than I have to prove Ib’s cells as galvanic or not, but that does not concern me as this has proven to be a very worthy cell regardless what it is.
 
Quote from: NickZ
Brad, what was not mentioned in your information is if the electrode oxidation can be also be avoided or at least controlled by a lack of Oxygen available, like in a hermetically sealed cell. Or not?
   This is a question I have pondered for a long time Nick. Many of the chemicals we have been using, not only in Ib’s cells, but others as well contain oxygen and hydrogen. Epsom Salt, Alum, Elmer’s Glue, and other chemicals as well contain oxygen, hydrogen, or both. The question is, does the chemical makeup of these materials when mixed or exposed to metals change and allow oxidation even while in a sealed environment or not. I would like to think that as long as the cell is not overstressed that the crystal structure does not break down allowing oxidation to occur at the electrodes. But once again, I think these cells have more than passed the smell test and deserve a place of honor.
 
Thanks,
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on December 02, 2011, 11:17:05 PM
My last small carbon/aluminum cells output 94mV on DC, and 1.250 or so on the AC setting on my meter.  So, the AC setting shows a higher output than the DC output, sometimes almost twice as much. But, the leds will still only light to the same intensity regardless of what the meter reads.

Please check your meter.
It is probably broken on the DC settings...
It should at least show 0.5 to 0.7 Volts on the DC side !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 03, 2011, 01:09:17 AM
    Stefan:
   Thanks,  my mistake,  I should have said 0.94 volts DC,  and 1.250 or so, AC. 
    It's me that is a little broken...  my meter is fine.
    Glad someone is on their toes...
                                                            Nick
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 03, 2011, 01:16:28 AM
 I just tried the epsom salt potassium and borax with carbon and the cell initially hits 1.29 after creation but it still isn't cool all the way. That carbon seems to have increased the voltage output. I haven't tried the current yet. I'm gonna let it dry fully before testing it this time.

 In cooking it I had to use a tad bit of water to get the crystals to start melting once that is done you don't need anymore. When dealing with this stuff it would be better to melt it in a double boiler and mix it thoroughly. I might get a mixer with the blades on it like the blades on an end to an mixing shaft that is hand held. This might mix it more thoroughly then we could just pour it into a mold/case(Aluminum or Magnesium). I'm going aluminum because it is more available in every area. This way you can make an insert on the end of the center graphite lead to put put a plastic plug and insert that into a hold on the bottom of the can/case. But that is a bit off in the future. I'm still waiting for it to dry so... We will see...

 After 10 minutes cooling it is at 1.27 volts dc...

 The mix has a tar like look to it. A tad bit opaque almost candy like consistency.

 After 1 hour the voltage is 1.26 volts dc.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 03, 2011, 02:07:06 AM
   B_rads:
   Thanks for your reply.  Yes,  it would be very good to be able to prove that there is such a thing a non-galvanic cell.
   
   At least we need to give Ib some credit in doing his best to show what he has already shown in all his videos about his cells not catering to galvanics. He has put them through the ringer.
   It looks like the galvanic cells stop producing output when they dry out. So, I would ASSUME that if there is no water or liquids in the cell, or outside air available, and if a cell is still able to produce an output without physical deterioration present, then that would at least be a starting point towards a non-galvanic long lasting cell.  The trick is getting some higher voltages and current levels out of that type of cell.  That is what I have been trying to do. I may only get a few mAs and a volt or so from each dry cells,  using just carbon and aluminum, but they are likely to last a long time, and have costed me,  zilch.
  Now some of the guys are making cells with upwards of 300 to 400 mA, but ... will those cells last? 
                                            NickZ
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 03, 2011, 02:32:00 AM
   B_rads:
   Thanks for your reply.  Yes,  it would be very good to be able to prove that there is such a thing a non-galvanic cell.
   
   At least we need to give Ib some credit in doing his best to show what he has already shown in all his videos about his cells not catering to galvanics. He has put them through the ringer.
   It looks like the galvanic cells stop producing output when they dry out. So, I would ASSUME that if there is no water or liquids in the cell, or outside air available, and if a cell is still able to produce an output without physical deterioration present, then that would at least be a starting point towards a non-galvanic long lasting cell.  The trick is getting some higher voltages and current levels out of that type of cell.  That is what I have been trying to do. I may only get a few mAs and a volt or so from each dry cells,  using just carbon and aluminum, but they are likely to last a long time, and have costed me,  zilch.
  Now some of the guys are making cells with upwards of 300 to 400 mA, but ... will those cells last? 
                                            NickZ
 


 I don't think we should go over the metal absolute value spread in voltage. If the separation is 1.2 volts then anything over that has to be galvanic and or electrolysis. This is what I have been noticing. Making a battery like this will depend on the ability of the cell to maintain it's voltage separation. If it can't it is weak at current and will lower the voltage faster but if it does maintain that separation then it can push harder and the voltage will be sustained at the value of the metals separation. What causes this separation I'm not understanding fully. It has to do with the chemical geometry and content as to weather galvanics are involved. The IB cells have a self healing quality to them because the fix a flat is included in the chemistry. The borax fixes the exposed aluminum and lays a oxidized layer to protect it fully in that spot. You can think of this process like when we break a leg. The fix is actually stronger then the original material. Now it's just a question of activating the break in a controlled rate and let it heal with a stronger connection. Eventually the cell get really strong but I think this is gonna take some exact calculating for the mixes to work as planned and yes I think there needs to be a protective layer to separate it from the environment from a water and oxygen barrage after it has completed the growing cycle.

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 03, 2011, 04:57:36 AM
  Guys:
  I received this from Sea Monkey at Heredical Builders, today, and I thought that you all would not mind me bringing it over to here:

Sea Monkey
    The ongoing discussion at EF has finally
gotten to the somewhat confusing issue
of what "Anode" and "Cathode" means with
respect to semiconductor devices and
electrolytic cells.

The WikiPedia article is correct.

Whether a given terminal on a device
functions as either an anode or a cathode
is dependent upon the direction of current
flow.

For conventional current flow the current
will always enter the anode of the device
and exit the cathode.

For electron current flow the current will
always enter the cathode of the device
and will exit the anode.

This holds true whether the device is a
rectifier or a voltaic cell.


For electron current flow:

When a secondary cell is being discharged
as a source of current the current exits
the cell at its negative terminal (anode)
and enters its positive terminal (cathode.)

When a secondary cell is being charged
the charging current enters the cell at its
negative terminal (cathode) and exits its
positive terminal (anode.)

The "anodes" and "cathodes" change positions
for discharge and charge as the current flow
changes directions. The DC polarity of the
cell remains unchanged.
__________________
Don't forget to do good deeds as you accumulate wealth.

    (Me now):
   I however have mentioned that I don't think that these cells are functioning as other batteries, or pipelines, or anything else. But, are more in line with and similar to electrolytic capacitors, diodes, semiconductors, etz... working like a one way check valve. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 03, 2011, 03:17:44 PM
 You would be correct Nick as much as the electron volts are concerned. Anything else being concerned only see these as a diode. This is because they are mostly dry or should be. even though the active element is outside and not in the center is only because the center electrode is only a channel and not the negative. This makes a potential dilemma. The outside is active and the inside is shielded but is active as a channel of the focused energy of the surrounding metal. The diode is biased by a steady direction of flow of the focus of energy. Much like an electrolytic capacitor. When we started using the can as a terminal we started to get weird results. This is because of static induction rules where the center is neutral and the inside of the metal facing inwards is one polarity and the outer skin is polar opposite or negative outside of the can. These are static rules and must be included in this process. The solid of the cell is merely a static connection and improves the polarity alignment. This comes from orienting the crystals via surface attraction rules. Since most of the crystals are pyramidal in shape this creates more surface area in one direction only well two in the double ended pyramids, those are mostly balanced connectors. This is where I suspect the diode like action is. It is a combination of aligned surface area. In one direction it flows into concentrated channels of surface area and in the other direction it gets dispersed 45 degrees away on one side totaling 90 degrees deflection per pair of faces. this also splits up the polarities negative and positive into two channels which are also 90 degrees apart with a 4 sided pyramid. 3 sided are much harder to explain but I believe 3 sided pyramids are the strongest and what forms the network of energy streams< like water streams.


 Hmmm...

 Salt seems to be this 3 sided version of the network. But it is how we defend our electrode that merits attention. Protect the electrode and the metal can survive unscathed. The borax does this. It facilitates repair of the layer of oxidized metal. Yes this eats a portion of the surface but that is how the pyramidal shape is created.

 I had the chance to play with a tin can that had Pineapple in it in little bits. I ate most of the pineapple and left a good amount of the juice in the can to react to the oxygen and about 10 pieces of the pineapple bits in the juice. After a few days I read about IB's idea about tin and it does have a rather cool looking metal structure. Well the can got oxidized on that lower portion. So The can didn't oxidize until the oxygen could get to the solution that was left. The funny thing is the oxidized walls are grey in color after a rinse and dry. GREY.

 This leads me to believe oxygen is the culprit in these cells. Although the oxygen is needed to form the protective layer that is still highly conductive but not reactive to waters solvent properties. So sealing these cells is the way to go after the right ingredients are attained it should be sealed off from oxygen.

 Two updates. One is about the carbon cell. It's at .55 volts and getting drier.
 The new cell made with IB's crystals and carbon pulled away from the aluminum and cracked so I need to put it in a container and after two days of drying It was still wet underneath the crystal mix. So drying times might go into weeks here before any use can be done *galvanics/electrolysis*.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 03, 2011, 09:46:58 PM

 I had a chance to make what I thought was a proper cell. I filled my glass jar with the new mix of carbon salts and borax. The thing puffed up like a muffin and I jammed the aluminum coil into the jar with the graphite lead as well. By examining the flat version I am seeing growth after it dries or in the drying process. The crystals forming are very clear and thin with a pointy end. The structure seems to grow after it starts evaporating water. It is literally building as I watch it. The mix still looks wet and I think that is because of the carbon. It swells from the water and where the water was it grows crystals in that evaporation process. I think the carbon is being ripped apart and the crystal is what is being build via flow and evaporation of the water from the epsom salts. I tried to take pictures but my camera sucks at close ups. The Carbon makes an excellent back ground for the crystalline structure to be enhanced visually. So it looks like the polarization of crystals are due to the surfaces. Each pointing away from that surface. One structure is conductive and the other is not. This is the diode like effect I am seeing in the flat version. The crystals eventually grow into each other and bond. With one being conductive and the other not you can see why this would be a diode like action. With the one being conductive it's tips are passing charges from the surface of each matter we use as the electrode. Aluminum\Graphite or MAgnesium/Graphite or Copper.


 I wonder is they are diamond like conductors seeing that it is using carbon ???

 In the IB flat version it would be easier to have the plates on either side then the crystal can grow more straight. I'll have to do some more work in that area Graphite written on paper should be sufficient for one electrode and aluminum foil for the other.

I also think baking hastens the crystal formation. Of course  slower more even heat would be best for crystal growth and this is what I have been seeing with my flat cell that got ruined. Round geometry would be best for this but it has to be in a aluminum can/graphite electrode or magnesium can and should use copper for the electrode.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 04, 2011, 02:50:56 PM
After Letting it run all night, yeah I know. I couldn't wait any longer, Sue me. Well after letting it run for a bit it seems to be stable at .37v stable while in circuit. I am thinking I got too much carbon in it. I'm gonna dissect this one and learn as much as I can about it. It seems to be not as much in the mix as I thought. My molten procedure is very simple. Double boil the mix and the steam helps melt it into a slurry. once in slurry add the carbon. My first attempt was about 1 cubic centimeter of carbon finely ground. The mix was slightly transparent but had a blackish oily hue to it. I should probably mix the carbon with water first so that it will not fluff up like my first attempt did. Getting the mix to the right consistency is key and that is temperature based. I put salt in the water of the bath so that it's boiling temperature was raised. That helps immensely. Since I have a jar of thick glass I use that to cook the mix. I also let it cool in the same jar and insert the electrodes into it.


 I have an anodized aluminum wire coil about 2mm thick and the center electrode is graphite held there with a closepin.


 So time for dissection.

 He IB whats the mix ratio of your cells.. I need to start making this via formula...

 The dissection of the cell confirmed my suspicion that I added to much carbon. It should not rise at all when cooking.

 Ok the process has been investigated and this is my conclusion. The formation of the crystal layers should be surface based. Each surface or electrode should be the same size and even the same mass weight. My process was not 100% but I did get a very good cell with more power then the round version.

 This is due to the the equal surface area of the electrodes 3"*3" square and not fully covered. The process is tricky to perfect because the layer of crystalline matterial should be very even and uniform for optimal crystal growth. Instantly after I added the new type of cell my led went up in power.  When compared with the old style jar cell. but there is an issue with the graphite paper not adhering to the crystal material. It's too slippery so slight compression is needed to keep the layers together. I think making a form out of old Popsicle stick should do for a frame then pour the crystalline matrix into the form and quickly put a graphite coated paper or some other graphite layer on top.

 Many many layers can be built in this way and increase it's voltage staying capabilities. Thickness of the crystalline matrix should be more then 1mm thick. Possibly 2-4 mm, this will be determined based on more experiments. My carbon battery is the weak link and is holding this setup back when the major component is carbon.

 The mix I used for this battery was 1 teaspoon of borax, 2 teaspoons of espom and a teaspoon of salt substitute(potassium) and 1 cubic centimeter of carbon finely ground. After an hours of time the fine crystals are appearing. They glint in the structure when illuminated with an led light. The first carbon crystal cell looks to have a good amount of these needle like crystals. They are very long and very thin. The second type of crystal has a 4 sided pyramid on it's tip with a fatter not as long trunk. It's weird but I see two directions of these crystals. Some tend to flourish in bush like outcroppings and tend to be needle like and others group around the other surface are fat with pyramidal tips. I so want to get a pc microscope.

 Time to make more of these batteries and see what their limit is.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 04, 2011, 10:10:04 PM
@Jbignes5


I don't have exact ratio's to my cells. a little bit of this and a little bit of that is what I do.


Are you tempting to build one of my cells? which one?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 04, 2011, 11:58:26 PM
 I have always tried your batteries IB. I have done my won too. The stove top cell is the best cell in my opinion. One of the cells I made was at 1.27 dc before it went bust. All I did was take your borax salt substitute and epsom's salt but I made a change. I add pure Carbon. I got it from the art store near me... The problem with my last one is it dried way too fast and crumbled. But it was tops in voltage.


 I made another one with a sheet of aluminum foil and a graphite coated paper. I cooked up the salts & Borax in the pot and when it got molten state I added the carbon and poured it onto the aluminum. Then quickly added the graphite paper. I used to use graphite leads but they were to small of a surface area. So I changed it to old tech and colored a piece of paper cut from an envelope. It works well but it needs a slight compression to make sure it stays all together. Other then the adhesion problem it a very good cell. My weakest cell is the pure carbon cell.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 05, 2011, 03:08:23 PM
 This adding of the pure carbon changed the crystals. Most became elongated and needle like but there are fatter ones as well. They grow and stop at the surfaces. Most grow on a slight angle but there are some that grow straight from surface to surface. My first carbon doped crystal cell kept growing because of the increased oxygen it was now getting. These crystal batteries take some time to start and complete the growing cycle. Water does help but they need to be in normal unloaded mode for the water to not act either in a galvanic or electrolysis way. So they need to be in a complete state of rest and have water and oxygen available for the growth cycle. The cycle must be complete if it is not the effects of water in the two reactions will destroy the structure via the metal eroding.


 Now even after two days the new type of mix was still wet underneath nearest the metal. I think I know why. The water the cell uses to build is mostly highly polarized water. It is from the epsom salts and when you add a bunch of charges like we do when we cook them they give up that water. That water doesn't evaporate easily because it is still within the structure via a surface skin effect and it's polarized. This polarization is a key to non evaporating water it seems. When exposed to air the growth continues via capillary action within the crystals. They sweat the water+crystal material out via pores. This action allows building on the fly and it polarizes more water in the process via environmental content.


 I am working on getting a usb Microscope so I can see this and inspect the crystals for strange events or even for continued growth. I know I can get up to 800x with the cheap scopes. So that should help with this investigation.


 The old carbon crystal mix is now just fully connecting from both sides so It take quite a while to form these structures fully. This old batch is 5 days old and now with the accelerated growth from being exposed to air it is just now closing up. Nick also saw the sweating from his style of hotdog cell. It was more pronounced.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 05, 2011, 05:38:44 PM
  My hot dog cell shorted out by placing the last coat of glue on it, but has now somewhat recuperated to outputting about 0.6 volts, and 50mA, again.  But, as it is still drying, I have not placed it under a load, just to take some meter readings now and then. 
I found some aluminum wire to wind on the second hot dog cell that is going to be using the semiconductor treated 3" by1/4 " copper tube (red oxide layer), and I'll also make a table salt glue mix for that.   
 50mA from the original hot dog cell is not so bad, considering it uses just a regular table salt electrolyte, brass rod, and aluminum alloy wire.  I think that sealing the cell with the 5 minute E-poxy or something other than just the white glue on the outside is absolutely needed, as it just blow holes right through the glue, due to the electrolysis action from the water in the glue.  It would take about a dozen of my carbon/aluminum cells to equal the current output of one of these hot dog cells, even when just using a regular table salt electrolyte.
   
  @ Ib2:  What is the current readings on your "Blue cell" now?  I've asked this before... but had no reply
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 05, 2011, 05:54:10 PM
NickZ


I can't give you a current reading on the big blue cell because i'm still testing it in a vacuum sealed container while it runs a LCD clock. I'm sure its at a lower current reading but it does run the LCD clock just fine, and that is all i can give you now.




At the moment I'm spending most of my time on a cell that is giving a piezoelectric effect but instead of pulses its giving a constant output of power. The power is linear to the amount of weight put atop of the cell. It seems that the cell is affected by pressure, but not in a normal sense like a piezoelectric crystal gives a spike of current when pressure is applied this cell gives a constant amps that is proportional to the weight of a object placed on top of it. This cell is taking the mass and gravity and converting it to electricity. But I'm still testing it and will have a video up soon showing what i'm talking about.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 05, 2011, 06:11:19 PM
NickZ


I can't give you a current reading on the big blue cell because i'm still testing it in a vacuum sealed container while it runs a LCD clock. I'm sure its at a lower current reading but it does run the LCD clock just fine, and that is all i can give you now.




At the moment I'm spending most of my time on a cell that is giving a piezoelectric effect but instead of pulses its giving a constant output of power. The power is linear to the amount of weight put atop of the cell. It seems that the cell is affected by pressure, but not in a normal sense like a piezoelectric crystal gives a spike of current when pressure is applied this cell gives a constant amps that is proportional to the weight of a object placed on top of it. This cell is taking the mass and gravity and converting it to electricity. But I'm still testing it and will have a video up soon showing what i'm talking about.


 That sounds like the cell Nick made with carbon and quartz. It showed the same signs as you are stating, I think..
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 05, 2011, 06:14:46 PM
   Thanks for the reply.  I'll wait until the cell comes out of the bag.  As that is the strongest running cell made of that type, it's important to know the long term results.
   I think that the main trick to making the salt electrolytes work properly is to make sure they are sealed, otherwise they will make their own water, if available air is present, and that is not going to make for long lasting cells, as it will also contaminate the electrolyte.
   I really like your idea of the just pure salts crystal cell, as that cell can be easily dipped in resin, or E-pozy to seal it, also.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 05, 2011, 06:41:41 PM
   jbiggness5:
   The addition weight added on top of the cell can also help with its conductivity, thus also making it have a higher output. Which is why I press my carbon/quartz cells down into the capacitor cans as much as I can.
  Now I have my two newest cells, the small ones I made a week ago, both inside a plastic AA battery holder that uses springs to make for a better contact, pressing the two cells together very tightly.  Those two tiny cells are giving me over a 1.5, to 1.91 volts depending on their mood.  I've added a couple more cells to have almost 4 volts together and they still will not light my Hartley oscillators, from lack of current. As adding them in series is not going to help their current levels. But I also have a 4 AA battery holder that can fit up to 8 of these smaller type capacitor cells that will give me about 7 volts or so, but still at only 3mA, or so.  So, current levels are also important as well,  at least they are for me.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 05, 2011, 07:09:42 PM
 Maybe adding grahite to this equasion might help with the conductivity. I would try to stay to the same grind levels for carbon and graphite. The closer you can keep those the better the cell will conduct. I agree about the conductivity and the spacing of the molecules for conduction. That is why I used water in that process. When it evaporates it will leave a better conduction path made by that evaporation and hence why I am getting a better current out of mine. I can't tell the ma's because my meter blew it's fuse. I got to go get one again. I believe the current is stronger because when I add them to my other batteries it improves the light output. Not by tons but enough to raise the light level.


 Thats what lead me to the IB's mix with carbon doping. My next experiment will use graphite powder instead. I can't wait to get some magnesium since this seems to have a better reaction and current because of them being both metals (magnesium/copper).  I am wondering what difference I would see with magnesium and copper with these new doping materials. Hmmm...

 Please try to understand that we want a conduction path from outside to inside. This makes the center electrode positive because of amplification of the surrounding surface. Crystals are part of that goal, the mere shape of them makes them amplifiers of surface charge and directional in nature because of that amplification. Induction is also a big clue here. With magnetics being closer to our detectable spectrum. Light plays another role. And crystals help in lights ability to go as far as it goes. So all of the forces are dealt with in one neat little package. Light and energy can co-exist at the same time with fields as well. Then densities have a lot to do with it after the basic laws. Since these pathways can interact over miles or even millions of miles they are the strongest forces around and when you have matter binding the forces it creates densities and divisions of those densities.

 Since water is the most available element anywhere in the universe we can see that it is a smaller density of that water that holds the true power. It can focus light and bend it's path. All this from inside of it's rigid structure. Thats what radiates light into any imaginable angle from a point source. A single drop of perfect circular water. All instantly spreading out from the main source without wasting a drop of energy in the process. If there is a conductor network present then it radiates out from the source. If it doesn't have a network already established then it grows instantly. Water also has an ability to become polarized and it reacts to static fields this is also where surface charges come into it. I think the trapped water can still move within the structure of the crystals. This is evident by the experiments we are doing here.

 Get the balance right and you have a never ending supply of energy without destroying our environment or ourselves.

 Sealing the batteries will have to be done once this balance has been attained and is the reason for such good results after sealing the balance into the cell.

 It might be possible to dope the glue with carbon or graphite to increase the conductivity of the glue even if water evaporates and is not present. this might change the reliance of water in the system to ferry the charges to the center electrode after the water has evaporated.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 05, 2011, 10:40:11 PM
I have figured out what powers my cells, its pressure.


Here is the video http://youtu.be/PqBkxbdg0XY
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on December 06, 2011, 12:12:11 AM
I have figured out what powers my cells, its pressure.


Here is the video http://youtu.be/PqBkxbdg0XY (http://youtu.be/PqBkxbdg0XY)

 Very interesting. Use a pair of vise grips or put in a vise and lets see how long it will hold. My cells are inside tubes so I don't think they will react the same but I will check and see.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 06, 2011, 12:13:34 AM
 Use hose clamps and lets see what this can do!
 Share the how to to make this!

 The more I think about this the more it makes sense from what we have been seeing. As the crystals grow they get pressure applied to them. This is where we have been seeing the voltage from nothing basically. The growing of the crystals pressurized the crystals and allowed then to channel the energy flowing by them in the environment. If this is the same as how we create magnets then it makes perfect sense. Remember temperature swells and shrink almost all matter. This could be the exact way we make magnets but thought it was from the applied field which I think is only to align the magnetic grains inside of the magnet. The phase change we see, heat is how this shrinkage is working with magnets. So if we do this in a round container and allow a electrode to go in the container and cook the contents fully it should solidify and tighten up. Once fully dry then take it out of the heat and walla voltage voltage voltage. The round container is for even pressure from all sides as it shrinks from loosing heat.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on December 06, 2011, 04:03:02 PM
  I'm wondering if a combination of carbon with the Epsom/Sub salt mix (dry) inside the capacitor cans would work.  As the carbon powder (or graphite) makes it so the salts can be used in a dry state without adding any water.  Once salts are melted down and re-solidify, they are not crystals anymore, but salt rocks. Possible loosing something in the process.  The harder I press the carbon/quartz mix into the capacitor cans, the more output it gives.  This may just be due to the better conductivity, instead of the piezo effect, but who knows. This also happens without the addition of quartz, so...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 06, 2011, 04:28:56 PM


 I have not done anything with the pure carbon cell to test compression. The cap can I am using won't allow for me to put anything in there. I will have to figure something out on that side.

 Ok I can confirm that the pure carbon cell does react to pressure. I increased the no load voltage to .68 volts from .64

The only problem that I can think of with the pure carbon is that the center electrode might get crushed seeing it is graphite but on the other hand it is a soft material so it might last. My thinking is to bake these very very slowly so that the metal stays expanded for the growth period of the crystals. This way they grow full to the metal. Then all you need to do is let the whole thing cool down. This can put the strength of the metal of pressure into a focus. The more pressure the tighter these filaments gather and the higher the density of the energy. We all know what Black holes do right? They are massive compression vortexes. Learn that matter transforms this network. It collects and pools giving life to us all.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 06, 2011, 05:48:16 PM
Hey IB. Great video with the clamp. Now you need to try the hose clamps they will compress from all sides.

 You know Ib this could be a boon. they are an extended battery that does shrink the crystals. You are squeezing them and changing their inductive paths. They can channel more power. This does tend to line up the lattice to a smaller size and form a more compact crystal. I suspect this could last for 1-2 years maybe before you would have too much deformation or compacting of the structures. I am wondering if this would work with lead with antimony? Compressing lead should show signs of voltage I would think? or silver or gold even.. Maybe plate the carbon with gold or silver like I suggested. This would give you more inlets for the pressure and transferred to the carbon or graphite center electrode. Has anyone tried to electroplate Graphite before?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 09, 2011, 03:04:25 AM
I removed the pressure from the cell and let it rest to see if the cell's normal power is affected. It seems the normal power the cell gives off is not affected by the squeezing of the cell, this shows that no physical damage is being done to the cell when i crush it.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 09, 2011, 02:01:44 PM
 Well none that you can detect. You did wrap the cell in paper right? This can be akin to an electrolytic cap when it gets hurt.  But in the cap it can repair itself so to speak. Could be the same and the amount of surface area also needs to be included. One test could be to hook opposite sides of the battery and use a clamp like the hose clamp and see if there is degradation in the cell s normal voltage that way.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 10, 2011, 08:13:22 PM
Well none that you can detect. You did wrap the cell in paper right? This can be akin to an electrolytic cap when it gets hurt.  But in the cap it can repair itself so to speak. Could be the same and the amount of surface area also needs to be included. One test could be to hook opposite sides of the battery and use a clamp like the hose clamp and see if there is degradation in the cell s normal voltage that way.


 Whatever happened to John B. and his semiconductor scheme? I was very interested in that ans nothing came of it... Hmm...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 11, 2011, 05:11:10 AM
@jbignes5


I wondering the same thing, what happen to John's semiconductor and his other cells?


The cells could be dead and that's why he's not posting, or he could be too busy making money from his videos and books, lol.


Personally I thought most of his cells were just galvanic, especially the Alum cells. Some cells he mentions one days and the next he wants us to not mention it again. He says he's got a Marcus Reid cell and is studying it but i'm starting to wonder if the Reid cell is the real thing? I sometimes think the hype about bedini can be a little too much, don't get me wrong he's done some good stuff, but he's still just another person.




I'm now wonder what's next? Where do we go from here? do we start powering cars or light bulbs? Do we treat the cells like batteries or do we treat them as a part of a circuit component? Is there another crystal mix out their that makes a even better cell than what any of us have? The season is here and the work on these cells may slow down a bit, but the idea's will still flow. Lets keep up the good work!  ;)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: nightlife on December 11, 2011, 07:08:15 AM
 I think John is to stoned these days to really stay focused on his work. As for the cells we are building, I think we still have a long way to go as to finding what combinations work the best. The worst thing is that it is going to take a long time to test each cell before we know which is best and or how long they will last.
 The pressure aproach is very promissing but more testing needs to be done.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on December 11, 2011, 02:36:46 PM


 I did see the epsoms salts tests and I knew that epsoms salts was the biggest component. When mixed with the potassium and carbon they form thin needle like growths. I think these are the key crystals we should be looking at... Carbon is really amazing when added to these cells. I really need a microscope to show the crystals.


 *Update* The straight Sodium Carbonate cell with graphite and aluminum electrodes is forming crystals on the bottom of the cell. They are getting to be about 1 mm across now. Slowly adding water to the top of the cell allows the water to filtrate trough the cell and stay in the bottom of the cell.  Very very interesting to say the least. They are solid crystals and clear but I have yet to be able to get to them because they are on the bottom of the cell. I can't wait to dissect this one lol!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on December 30, 2011, 03:18:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9syWCj8uz4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9syWCj8uz4)   Crystal cell running super penny oscillator.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 02, 2012, 03:44:37 AM
Dont know if this was already posted in this thread but I wanted to park it somwhere on overunity and to annouce I will be building some glue power cells myself and am pleased that others here got them to work. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=john+hutchinson&view=detail&mid=1DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA561DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA56&first=0&FORM=LKVR16 (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=john+hutchinson&view=detail&mid=1DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA561DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA56&first=0&FORM=LKVR16)


triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 02, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
Dont know if this was already posted in this thread but I wanted to park it somwhere on overunity and to annouce I will be building some glue power cells myself and am pleased that others here got them to work. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=john+hutchinson&view=detail&mid=1DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA561DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA56&first=0&FORM=LKVR16 (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=john+hutchinson&view=detail&mid=1DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA561DFAAD8FAA73F0AEFA56&first=0&FORM=LKVR16)


triffid




I look forward to what you build. The best cell I've made was Elmer's glue, Epsom salt, and salt substitute. I found using copper and magnesium for electrodes works best.  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 02, 2012, 04:57:04 AM
I have the first one built.It will have to dry .And I have to get a voltmeter from somewhere.The blob has a two inch stainless steel screw in it and a two inch copper wire in it.On a piece of square paper cut from a paper plate that was going into the trash anyway.I just found out over the weekend that john open sourced his crystal battery technology.I was wondering if ordinary table salt did the trick also?Its sodium chloride
with a trace of iodine.We may not want that??Iodine anyway.So are we wanting surface area first?With the metals?  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 02, 2012, 05:06:40 AM
I have the first one built.It will have to dry .And I have to get a voltmeter from somewhere.The blob has a two inch stainless steel screw in it and a two inch copper wire in it.On a piece of square paper cut from a paper plate that was going into the trash anyway.I just found out over the weekend that john open sourced his crystal battery technology.I was wondering if ordinary table salt did the trick also?Its sodium chloride
with a trace of iodine.We may not want that??Iodine anyway.So are we wanting surface area first?With the metals?  triffid


Table salt is bad stay away from it. Stick with salt substitute because it has Potassium chloride in it. John Hutchinson cells are not what they seem. Johns cells voltages will die off if no water is given to them. The trick is to create a cell that keeps it voltage even when dry. If a cell needs water to keep its voltage up than its more than likely galvanic, and galvanic batteries die after awhile.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 02, 2012, 09:59:53 AM
There is always a certain amount of water in the air.And there is water locked away in the crystal structure itself.We may want that?If I am correct IB2 that you used no glue in your video of making another blue rod using copper pipe and magnesium strip.Only water,salt substitute and epson salts.If that was your video I will check later to see if it was.I have not been able to sleep tonight .I keep seeing ways to build these cells in my head.In my kitchen I have empty food cans that I wash and save since there are scrap companies paying nine cents a lb for them here in st.Louis,mo.I have three of them inside one another.One end removed.If I work hard enough I might get six inside one another in if I toss in a gallon can somewhere?So instead of copper pipes I use tin cans that usually get tossed anyway.Wrap your paper trick around them wet them down.Use heavy duty aluminum foil around them as the other metal electrode.Slip one inside another if I can.Years ago I read in a boy scout book how to make a homemade capacitor.You use two sheets of aluminum foil with wax paper in between.It could be scaled up to room size if I wanted.If both electrodes are the same metal you do get some power. However,I would make sure those two metals did not come out of the same melting pot!I would use one side heavy duty the other side thin.I want them to be as dissimilar as I can make them!
Anyway I must try to get some sleep.So see you later.Triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 02, 2012, 10:05:05 AM
For that roomsized device I would not use wax paper.Some other kind of paper.Free If I can get it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 02, 2012, 10:56:52 AM
Ib2,I have gone over the first four pages of this thread and cannot relocate your video that I saw earlier.Where you show us how to make a six inch blue cell?You used black electrical tape to hold down the paper,then using your hands you wet the paper.I worked in manufacturing for over 20 years and it seems that some of the processes here could be automated in a factory?At least at home for a guy who wants to power his home off of these devices.He might need a couple hundred batteries to get some major lights.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 02, 2012, 01:45:36 PM



Videos on how to may my crystal cells

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9U6GH9vgOI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9U6GH9vgOI)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voBy5Km1mAg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voBy5Km1mAg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWATxAJooE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWATxAJooE)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ngFfU1hHyM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ngFfU1hHyM)




Just because water is in the crystal lattice does not mean that the electrodes are going to touch the water, if that was true than just sticking electrodes in Epsom salt would give you a voltage. I have had many debates on the topic of water in the crystal with people and to prove that the cell does not use water from the Epsom salt just make a cell that has only Elmer's glue and Epsom salt and leave the salt substitute out, The is cell after a week will start to go dead unlike the crystal cells that contain elmer's glue, epsom salt, and salt substitute which will continue to give you voltage for a long time. If a cell needs constant water to keep the voltage alive than its galvanic, just like Bedini's alum crystal cell. If you want some reading about the crystal cells than I suggest you read the post here [size=78%]http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7351-bedini-earth-light.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7351-bedini-earth-light.html)[/size] Its a lot of reading but it will get you caught up and see all the crystal cells that have been made.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 02, 2012, 09:25:59 PM
Hi Ib2,the very first video in your last post was the video I had searched for and could not find.Thank you very much for posting it again for me.The second one with the tin can was one I had not seen.The last two I had seen before.Once again thank you for posting those for me.I think that since these crystal cells respond to pressure?.I think it is air pressure maintaining a voltage on these cells.We are the bottom of an air well with 14.7 lbs per square inch over our heads(sea level anyway).You have the uneven heating of the earth by the sun(night and day) Plus the earth is always rotating at about 1000 miles an hour on its axis.So air/weather is always moving around.So it might be we/you are tapping into those energies using your glue cells.Which is fantastic anyway!!To think you might have something that taps into the earths rotation is exciting too!Thank you very much.I don't think the water question is too important.Main thing keep water away from the cells.I get that!Thanks once again.Triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 03, 2012, 11:31:24 PM
Its been 48 hours since i made my first glue cell so its been drying since then But  I don't detect any voltage coming out of my cell.I went to Radio Shack today to buy a voltmeter and the lady clerk failed to tell me I need to buy a special 12 volt battery to put in the thing.So I brought it home and could not use it.I then hooked up two wires to a old speaker got lots of static from a 1.5 battery.But when I hooked up the glue cell I got nothing at all.No static nothing.Of Course when I made the cell I was guessing at methods and it was before I saw A video clip on how to make them.So I will try again soon to make some more.Meanwhile I will get that 12 volt battery from Radio Shack.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 04, 2012, 08:19:49 PM
Got my voltmeter to working.I went to radio shack and they installed one(battery) at no additional cost to me.This voltmeter reads to the thousands of a volt so its an upgrade for me.I am making more glue cells today.No voltage from my first cell even with the voltmeter.According to IB2's video.The cell is made in layers.
glue first on cardboard backing
salt sub,stir a little
epson salt
salt sub again,no stirring
insert wires




Like layers of a sandwich.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 04, 2012, 11:22:37 PM
I made three more glue cells today.Now waiting for them to dry.Then check voltages.One thing I noticed there is a lot of waste of both salt sub and epson salts. Ib2,your videos show a lot of dust on your tables.I used a large frying pan to make mine in so the excess did not go on my table but into the pan for easy cleanup.I threw it down the sink this time but now I realize these two might make a heck of an electrolyte for experimenting.But they are cheap .I have used epson salts as an electrolyte wondering what would happen?Add salt sub to that and??
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 05, 2012, 12:19:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8X7VRoxGs&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8X7VRoxGs&feature=related)   Great news although still wet two of my cells show .5 volts.
maybe when dry they will still produce a voltage?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 05, 2012, 02:13:35 AM
@triffid


What metals are you using?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 06, 2012, 01:31:43 AM
I used aluminum and aluminum on one cell
copper and aluminum on the other two cells
I forgot to stir one of them.The other two were stirred.
When wet the copper and aluminum showed.52 volts easy.
The other cell showed.018 volts when wet(same metal).
Now 30 hours later the cell not stirred shows a voltage running about.145.The other two show nothing at .001 volts


So the cell where I forgot to stir the salt sub into the glue now produces the highest voltage.I noticed on the underside of all of the cardboard squares an area that feels like sandpaper.So that tells me dissolved chemicals made their way through the cardboard during the drying process.


If it is producing power tomorrow I will consider it a limited success.
I used aluminum pull tabs from soda cans since they were on hand and leftover pieces of copper wire from an electrical job on the house I'm in.They too were on hand. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 06, 2012, 01:37:20 AM
It looks like to me that these chemicals need to be layered not stirred at all except for getting the metal electrodes into the mass.Then you have to poke them in a little.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 06, 2012, 01:46:18 AM
Other metals I have on hand are tin can lids and copper discs.I will try those next.I used elmers school glue IB2 said to use elmers glue all.
I will have to make more cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 06, 2012, 02:15:56 AM
@triffid


Elmer's School glue and Elmer's Glue All are two very different glues, its best to use the Glue all.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 06, 2012, 03:50:37 AM
My one good cell is still producing over.145 volts with readings close to .199 volts.It does jump around a little. its about 31 hours.triffid
Maybe pressure sensitive?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 06, 2012, 04:13:40 AM
IB2 That why I mentioned what I had used.I was afraid the glue was too different.I caught that your glue was different from mine.After about the tenth video viewing.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 06, 2012, 04:17:08 AM
At least I am experimenting again.Not with dangerous acids and bases.Very Very safe materials it seems.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 06, 2012, 06:12:48 PM
ok now I bought some elmers glueall.I will make more glue cells tonight.My best cell so far is producing .09 volts almost 45 hours later.thats almost a tenth of a volt.So now if I can avoid breaking the cell.I can check on it tomorrow.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 07, 2012, 09:06:38 PM
My one working cell is producing .011 volts 72 hours after I first glue it together.It appears dry as a bone.I went to family dollar and bought sandpaper and pencil leads to clean wires and to use carbon as an electrode in my experiments.Sometime this weekend I will make more cells.
I had to buy more materials to work with.Lowells was expensive on their items but family dollar was cheaper on the same materials a whole lot.I saved about $5.00 buying at family dollar.I also bought a spray can of blue paint.Red Devil brand but pretty much the same as IB2's spray paint.Interior/exterior rust preventative and drys quickly for $1.25.Other metals I want to try is silver and magnesium.I will have to wait later to get them.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 07, 2012, 10:28:40 PM
@triffid


If you're getting only .011 volts then you're doing something wrong. You should be getting .450 with aluminum and copper or 1.4 with copper and magnesium. Are you able to make a video of what you're doing?



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 08, 2012, 12:45:46 AM

According to you Ib2,I used the wrong glue but don't worry I went out and bought some elmers glue-all.I used that tonight in making four new cells.I used tin can lids and copper.I only got .3 volts (wet) from that combination.Make sure your lids are conductive.Some of mine were not.I think a thin plastic coating was sprayed upon them.I made two with tin can lids.I made the other two with cardboard just like before.copper and aluminum like before but one I stirred the glue and first sprinkle of salt sub in,then added epson salts and salt sub,stuck the copper and aluminum in.The last cell I put everything in ,stirred it all and then stuck the electrodes in.Voltages on the last two read.52 volts(wet).My time here was 5:30pm sat.When I finished this round of cells.Sorry no video camera. triffid




Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 08, 2012, 12:51:07 AM
I will see what happens with these cells.I hope it was the wrong glue.The only reason I had one working at all was I did not stir it at all.
I want to try metal window screen at some point as an electrode.Some of the new stuff is coated with plastic so you need to put a match to it and burn it off.Or else use an old rusty metal screen(its conductive).triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 08, 2012, 12:56:06 AM
To me its a partial sucess that I am getting anything at all.At some point I will try silver as an electrode and nickle also.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 08, 2012, 05:20:06 AM
@triffid


At .52 volts it sounds like you're on the right track. The wet and dry version of my cells produce the same amount of voltage, its very odd. If you made a water cell and used copper and aluminum you would have over a volt but since Epsom salt and salt substitute is added to the mix it lowers the voltage down to half a volt. Let the cell dry overnight and see if still has its .52 volts. This cell does sound like a winner!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 08, 2012, 09:43:14 PM
At two pm the next day the tin can cells though lower in the beginning at.30 volts are at .25 volts now!But the copper and aluminum cells which were placed on cardboard and were .52 volts in the beginning(both of them)are now .015 and.005 volts.Its no surprise that the .005 volt cell is so low.the connections could be better and the mass of the crystal is less.I must be at fault there.these are the two cells I stirred.I am the one who put the amounts of material on the cardboard.




the tin can cells I did not stir I layered them again- tin can lid,glue,saltsub,epson salts,salt sub put copper circle on top of blob.No stirring at all.The circle of copper was small enough to be placed on top of the blob without touching the tin can lid.So no shorting of electrodes.




The glue was different-a lot less water it seemed-It was set in about an hour.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 08, 2012, 09:57:38 PM
The cell producing the least has the least mass of all the cells and more of the electrodes could have been covered.So that is my fault.I am using a different brand of salt sub(Nu-Salt)not Morton.That could be a reason?Its still potassium choride,contains less than 1% of cream of tartar,silicon dioxide,and natural flavor.I don't know what natural flavor is.But the other chemicals have been mentioned in johns cells literature.I did feel safe in using that brand of salt sub.I thought potassium chloride is potassium chloride no matter who made it.Maybe not?If the salt sub brand is at fault what about the epson salts?What brand should the epson salts be?(mine is TOP CARE).triffid



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 08, 2012, 10:12:23 PM
To stir or not to stir?So far my cells producing the most power are the ones not stirred.


Is the salt sub brand I"m using the right one to use?I do know different companies handle their chemicals differently.Thats why companies who buy and use chemicals have their own QC depts to test incoming chemicals.So if a supplier tests fails then they can chose another supplier.NU SALT is made by Cumberland Packing Corporation,in Brooklin NY 11205.


Do I need to worry about who made the epson salts?Maybe?


                                                                                                      regards,triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 08, 2012, 10:32:12 PM
Ok IB2,I went back over your video.I am using top care epson salts just like you.




You stirred the blob after you added the first sprinkle of salt sub and all the epson salts you were going to add.
then a sprinkle again of salt sub
insert the last (second) electrode.






The stirring is most likely where I messed up.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 08, 2012, 11:46:19 PM
@ triffid


i really don't understand why you're getting such low voltages. Are you able to take pictures of the cells and upload them?


How about instead of glue just get a piece of notebook paper and get it wet with water. Sprinkle some Epsom salt and salt substitute onto the paper and rub it in and allow the paper to dry. While the paper is wet test it out by poking it with copper wire and aluminum wire, you should get about half a volt. Once dried you should still get over .400 volts. This video will help you understand what i'm trying to say [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9U6GH9vgOI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9U6GH9vgOI)[/size]




Stirring should not matter. What you want to happen is to break down the Epsom salt and Salt substitute into water and then allow the water to evaporate and this leaves behind a new salt that is conductive. The has water in it so it breaks down the two salts but when glue dries the water in it is evaporating so it leaves behind the new crystal and then you have a battery. So its not the glue thats important but the water since its the water that allows the salts to combine. but once combine the cell will not need water anymore to work.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 09, 2012, 05:14:33 AM
I need to get some aluminum wire.But I will keep trying.The tin can lid cells are producing .22 volts at this time.I really need to get some magnesium metal strips too.I used copper discs on the tin can lids.I will make a new cell before I go to bed tonight.At some point I intend to
try your notebook paper idea.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 09, 2012, 04:30:49 PM
At about 10:30pm last night I made another cell.This time waiting for the last of the epson salts to be put on it before I stirred the mass.I added the last sprinkle of salt sub,then inserted the electrodes.An hour later I came back to it and sprinkled another round of salt sub on the cell.Electrodes were already inserted.This morning the voltage is holding at .52 volts(9:30 am).Last night the cell was .52 volts newly made(wet).I may have found what I was doing wrong .Improper insertion of the aluminum electrode into the mass.I was not using aluminum wire.I was using pull tabs from aluminum soda cans.I was laying them on top of the mass thinking that would be good enough.And pressing down a little.Last night I inserted that pull tab halfway into the mass and it made a big difference.




So I may have found what I was doing wrong.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 09, 2012, 04:35:37 PM
I will test the cell later tonight and see what the voltage is.Around midnight.If it works I will make a couple more like it and see if I get the same results,then work on getting some magnesium metal strips to make some high powered cells with it.My tin can lid cells are getting .25 volts and .22 volts.They are dry by now.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 09, 2012, 04:40:10 PM
I have some ideas maybe on how to pulse these cells to get more power.I would like to use some of their energy to pulse them and get more power out.Afterall a teaspoon of space contains enough energy to boil away all the oceans of the world or so I have heard.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 09, 2012, 06:22:58 PM
At 11:19am this morning the latest cell is still at .52 volts.The glue has dried a lot!triffid




I am looking forward to a 24 hour reading.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 09, 2012, 06:26:43 PM
I had made a cell with copper wire and pencil leads(two together) since the leads are so thin.I did not report it earlier because I only got .014 volts out of it when it was wet. Now thats its dry(over 72 hours),its voltage went up to .25 volts. I forgot how I stirred it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 09, 2012, 08:03:11 PM
  @Triffid:
   If you use pencil leads (or 1/4" to 1/2'" copper tube), and wrap aluminum wire or magnesium ribbon, as the two electrodes, you should get at least a volt.
But not using pencil leads and copper wire. 
  The most important point is not to let the glue touch both metals, (or the metal and pencil leads), or you are going to short circuit the cell every time. 
There MUST BE A ELECTROLYTE SEPARATOR between the two metals or metal and pencil leads, but NO direct contact between the two electrodes.
  I would recommend using the carpenter pencil leads and aluminum wire as the electrodes, but with a single layer of wet paper towel separating them. 
Once you get this to work, then you can brush on or spray on the salt mix onto the paper electrolyte, and once this has totally dried out you can seal the cell with white glue, 5 minute E-poxy, or casting resin, but, don't let the two electrodes make direct contact with the glue, as it has water in it, and will short out the cell.
  I believe that this has been your problem up to now.
   Good luck,
                     NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 10, 2012, 03:21:38 AM
Its 8:19pm(22 hours) and the latest cell has dropped to .430 volts.So I will make two more cells tonight and see if I get the same results.
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 10, 2012, 04:41:26 PM
Bad news that voltage dropped to .22 volts this morning.I must be using low quality aluminum?I did not use store bought aluminum wire cuz I had some junk aluminum on hand.That said,I will try to get aluminum wire from somewhere and some magnesium metal strips from somewhere and keep trying.I did not short out my electrodes and the pencil leads are too thin and fragile to wrap anything around them.I did make two more cells last night.They are drying now.I will not test them until tomorrow.And post the results here in the interest of open-sourcing.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 10, 2012, 05:22:41 PM
  There are videos on YouTube showing how several of the thin pencil leads can be wrapped with aluminum foil to make a cell. It can be done using just the wet paper towel between the electrodes at first to see what you get, If you add any salts to the paper electrolyte the aluminum foil will quickly get eaten up, as it is all expose to the open air. Any cells using salts needs to be sealed airtight.
  Carbon rods can be obtained at some crafts or artist supply stores. But the highest voltages have been obtained from the thin pencil leads, or carpenter pencil leads.
  I use empty aluminum capacitor cans filled with wood carbon or charcoal briquettes, and pencil leads for the center electrode, and get about a volt. These are non-galvanic cells, and can be placed in series to obtain the voltage needed.


   @ Ib2:  What is the current output of your first "Blue cell", now?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 11, 2012, 05:08:28 AM
I put together two new cells today using aluminum wire and copper wire.It seems the glue sets up faster than I thought.In about ten minutes its pretty hard.It could be Im not using enough epson salts?If I dont get the proper voltages here.I will increase the amount of epson salts next.The next time I make more cells that is.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 11, 2012, 05:14:15 AM
Nickz ,I will look for those videos on u-tube.Thank you for your help.I do have aluminum foil and a steady supply of thin pencil leads.No magnesium yet.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 11, 2012, 05:25:51 AM
Hold the train!I just found out that Morton salt sub is different from Nu-Salt salt sub


Morton's Salt substitute contains:
Potassium chloride, fumaric acid, tricalcium phoshate and monocalcium phosphate.


Nu-Salt does not contain     fumaric acid, tricalcium phoshate and monocalcium phosphate.


So I may need to change my salt sub to Morton


Which means tomorrow I spend some time looking for it!triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 11, 2012, 01:14:04 PM
@triffid


I've gotten Morton salt sub at Walmart and Lowes foods before.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 11, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
I did not find any mortons salt sub today.The nearest walmart I know about is 30 miles away but I go there once in a while.I will look for it there when I go again.My two cells I made two nights ago are reading .25 and .008 volts this morning.I hope it is the salt sub that is the problem.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 12, 2012, 12:22:29 AM
@triffid


It could be the metal you're using too. Make sure the metal you're using is what you think it is, sometimes steel looks like aluminum. I bought some aluminum wire off Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Fi-Shock-FW-00018D-250-Feet-Gauge-Aluminum/dp/B000FPCDRS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326323879&sr=8-1).


The Copper I use is from Lowes in the wire section for hanging things and not the electrical wire section but both are the same except the hanging copper wire does not have a insulator on it. The part number for the copper wire i use is 123109, its 18 gauge.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 12, 2012, 08:40:16 PM
Hi Triffid, If you could please post what "nu-salt" salt substitute contains (should be on the package) so that I can see what Morton has different in there salt sub.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 01:02:44 AM
Ok ,Nu-Salt has potassium chloride,less than 1% of cream of tartar,Silicon dioxide,and natural flavor.Thats all of what it says on the container.



48 hours later,
Final readings on my latest two cells with aluminum wire and copper wire reads .20 and .20 volts.The aluminum wire was leftover scrap from an electrical job on the house I'm in.So it's good aluminum.IB2.I bought the same copper wire as you did from Lowes.There snow everywhere here in St.Louis,mo. right now so I will not be venturing out anywhere until this snow melts.Next week sometime.




It must the Salt Sub thats wrong.


                                                                                                best regards,triffid



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 01:12:16 AM
IB2,You posted a video where you showed a voltage from a mineral.I dont think I caught the name of that mineral.Could you give us the name? Thanks,Triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 01:23:58 AM
A better explanation of the casimir effect than I had posted before.These batteries work on quantum pressures(in theory).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzlv6cvs8A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzlv6cvs8A&feature=related)  triffid




IB2,You posted this video and showed an increase in microamps from 2 or 3 to about 170.I theorize that as you applied pressure you distorted the lattice structure of your crystal to make better use of the standing waves inside your casimir plates(in the direction of the squeeze).   http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=jKebSvX76q8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=jKebSvX76q8)




In a way you could compare it to an uneven shoreline on the ocean.When waves break upon the beach.Some places they dont do much.Other places they shoot straight up in the air a dozen feet or more.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 08:13:17 AM
Even though fuzzy the audio is clear the hopes and dreams plus a good explanation of the casimir effect.Also locates the free energy part of the spectrum on the electromagnetic spectrum.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-wzLhzBH3Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-wzLhzBH3Y)  part1/3   triffid




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OQA01sqZ_M&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OQA01sqZ_M&feature=related)  part 2/3




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2VeISnMHY8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2VeISnMHY8&feature=related)  part3/3




Each part is about 15 minutes long and one of them explains why and how these batteries can reverse their voltage and act so crazy in general.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 09:08:43 AM
Another researcher with his collection of rock batteries that he made over a two year period.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OrJlbXNORw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OrJlbXNORw&feature=related) triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 09:24:09 AM
A researcher who built a 13 volt panel.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psKOtLOn5y8&feature=endscreen&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psKOtLOn5y8&feature=endscreen&NR=1)

same researcher shows some recipes  [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxDYk3R0WzQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxDYk3R0WzQ&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvNA-3_5sY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvNA-3_5sY&feature=related)  same researcher using epson salts and sodium silicate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOlWJYzFy1Y&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOlWJYzFy1Y&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvCv53gRaho&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvCv53gRaho&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhLNjGpqfY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhLNjGpqfY&feature=related)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FawOxuwqsgI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FawOxuwqsgI&feature=related)  all of these are by the same researcher.


Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 08:01:25 PM
Bad news guys my latest two batteries have continued to drop in voltage.My highest voltage is now .140 volts with all others .005 volts or less.That is a tin can lid cell in which I did not stir anything.The latest two batteries with aluminum wire and copper wire are now producing less than .005 volts.I may be able to get ahold of some sodium silicate before I can get some morton salt sub.When the snow and ice clears I will see if I can get some.Auto parts store just down the road from me.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 13, 2012, 08:19:42 PM
I just bought a roll of magnesium metal strip from   http://shop.miniscience.com/ (http://shop.miniscience.com/).It will be here about 1/25/2012.I have a problem with recovering my password from ebay. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 13, 2012, 10:08:53 PM
   Triffid:
   Surprising video about the guy with the quartz cells, as I've been working along somewhat similar lines, but I had not seen that guy's video.
   Here is my video of my Quartz/Carbon non galvanic cells:
P1010117.MOV - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIx8qYgZCP8)
                                       NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 14, 2012, 02:27:44 AM
Nickz thank you for that video.In the past I removed carbon rods from size d batteries to use as cheap electrodes for electrochemistry experiments.It was not carbon in those batteries but magnesium dioxide(which is as black as your carbon).I used  dish liquid soap and water to clean the carbon rods and let them dry overnight before use.I do think there is an electrolyte in your carbon that you used.I wonder what results you would have with aquarium carbon?Does quartz conduct electricity?I think what they call charcloth(carbon) might make a good electrode?They use charcloth to start fires without matches so its on u-tube on how to make it.I have snow and ice right now where I am living and do not like to venture out just yet.I am looking forward to finding some Morton Salt sub.I wonder if magnetic and/or electric fields could line up the casimir plates?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 14, 2012, 02:41:07 AM
I like the fact that we can now work on crystal batteries since John Hutchinson open sourced his technology.Yes so far I've failed to get anything over.14 volts to last.Now I'm worried that that fail me.Once we figure out a way to get a good working crystal cell we can make it smaller.Whenever you hold a cell phone in your hands you are holding what would have been an empire state building full of wires and electron tubes back in the early 1950's.With the intergrated circuit that Jack Kilby invented back in 1959 I believe.All of that starting getting smaller.and smaller,and smaller still.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 14, 2012, 02:45:27 AM
What I worry about is that someone will try to buy out someone and end up putting this on the shelf.Maybe the cat is out of the bag enough so that will not happen again?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 14, 2012, 03:00:38 AM
This guy shows how to hollow out a cigarette lighter for another project but someone could use the knowledge to put crystal cells into a  lighter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Erek6aS5Ws&feature=fvwp&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Erek6aS5Ws&feature=fvwp&NR=1)   triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 14, 2012, 04:32:24 AM
   Triffed:
   I have also used the carbon rods that are found in some of the AA size batteries. They work very well.
John B had also mentioned that the carbon rods can be washed, and put in the oven or on a electric stove to burn off any toxic stuff that may still be on them. That is what I do.
   The carbon in carbon/zinc batteries is not what I use now, or the whatever is found in the other batteries, as it can give you chemical burns, and who knows what else, even though I've made cells that can light an led on just a single cell, from old dead batteries. But now I just use plain beach wood carbon as the beach is next to my house, and is where I get some of my cell making materials.
I get calcium carbonate from sea shells, carbon from fires on the beach, and I also  use washed beach sand for my cement/sand cells made from beer cans, or capacitor cans, and also quartz.  My cells cost me nothing...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 14, 2012, 07:34:59 AM
That is exciting that you can use carbon from wood fires.That tells me I should be able to use charcloth.I can see those casimir plates in my mind just extracting all kinds of electricity from the vacuum.According to the three 15 minute lecture series I posted a link to.The energy is comparable to nuclear fusion.It depends on how efficient the crystal cell is.I have made one cell so far that is pulling .14 volts from the vacuum.All of the others are dead or pulling less than .005 volts from the vacuum.I could make more like the one thats pulling a tenth of a volt or more.And put them together in series to make a panel that gets a volt.But I will wait a few days and try to get that morton salt sub which seems to be the weak link in my experiments so far.I most likely will get sodium silicate first then the morton salt sub.I used to live close enough to the arkansas river.But now that I think about it there is a place a mile away from me where I can check out the beach for the missippsi river.So maybe I can find some materials there.Thanks NickZ for the reply.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 15, 2012, 05:57:13 AM
@triffid


I look forward to your post on making some cells. I'll be buying some nu-salt  salt substitute to test it out and see if it works or not and i'll trying many other salts as well.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 15, 2012, 12:23:45 PM
Hi IB2,I agree you need to check my results.The three  15  minute lectures I posted links to on free energy( from these batteries) said that there has been a lack of standardization on the chemicals used to make these crystal batteries.Hence you have results allover the board
Today you can travel from one state to another in your car knowing that gas from state to state will burn in your car.Because its making is standardized all across the nation.The gas made in conn is the same as in oklahoma for instance.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 15, 2012, 12:34:46 PM
I have been going over the pages in this thread very carefully to try to see if I have missed anything.I have magnesium metal strip on order.Today or tomorrow I will get some morton salt sub volts .Roads seem pretty clear now even though the nights are cold.I have been proud of my one cell producing .14 volts until I saw your video getting  where you got .18 volts with just glue and your salt sub.and copper wire and magnesium metal strip.No doubt copper wire and aluminum wire with just glue and my nu salt salt sub would be lower than .18 volts?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 15, 2012, 12:41:06 PM
According to NickZ's results I might have been better off using regular table salt.Other things I could think of were(1) didnt use enough epson salts or(2) didnt stir enough. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 15, 2012, 12:50:10 PM
It seems to me that copper plated metals work nearly as well as copper objects.There was a little talk on using silver plated metal.Of course the metal underneath might have some influence on crystal formation?I have a copper plated zinc disk on my one successful cell.I used it because there was no corrosion on it.I think magnesium plated metals would work ok too.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 15, 2012, 02:51:48 PM
@triffid


Never use table salt, it will never make a good cell.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 16, 2012, 01:04:51 AM
I ventured out today and got two containers of Mortons Salt Sub.So I made three more glue cells.All three have aluminum wire and copper wire.One is a control cell with just glue and mortons salt sub.The other two contain epsons salts also.Control voltage was .48 wet
the other two cells were .52 and .50 wet.So now I wait to if there is a difference.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 16, 2012, 01:38:04 AM
I ventured out today and got two containers of Mortons Salt Sub.So I made three more glue cells.All three have aluminum wire and copper wire.One is a control cell with just glue and mortons salt sub.The other two contain epsons salts also.Control voltage was .48 wet
the other two cells were .52 and .50 wet.So now I wait to if there is a difference.triffid


I too ventured out to find some different salt substitutes to see if they will work or not. So far I can say some work better than others but I won't know until the cells fully dry out.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 16, 2012, 06:11:21 PM
At 22 hours since being made with morton salt sub.The two new cells I made are .45 and .38 volts.The control cell with just glue and morton salt sub is .37 volts. I went out today and bought some sodium silicate from O'Reilly auto parts store.The brand name is "Seal-Up" and it has metal specks in it looks like copper?Liquid glass metallic it says on the bottle.Its a radiater and engine block sealer.I am intent on using the clear liquid part of it  in the beginning.It cost me $5.19.It does not say what metal is in there.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 16, 2012, 06:19:07 PM
I called the company phone number on the bottle and asked the man who answered the phone what kind of metal is in that bottle of Seal-Up?I was told its pure copper.Pure copper distributes the heat better he said. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 16, 2012, 10:11:00 PM
At 22 hours since being made with morton salt sub.The two new cells I made are .45 and .38 volts.The control cell with just glue and morton salt sub is .37 volts. I went out today and bought some sodium silicate from O'Reilly auto parts store.The brand name is "Seal-Up" and it has metal specks in it looks like copper?Liquid glass metallic it says on the bottle.Its a radiater and engine block sealer.I am intent on using the clear liquid part of it  in the beginning.It cost me $5.19.It does not say what metal is in there.triffid


Its good to hear the two cells are still alive. I find that as the cell drys the amps will go down but the voltage will go up a little. The control cell should die out within a week to around 100mV or so. I don't know if I ask this but are you using Elmer's Glue-all? Back when I first made these cells someone made my cells using the dollar store school glue and it never worked very well. I have the exact same block sealer with from the same store with the same copper bits in it. I never got the block sealer to do anything but you may have some luck. There was a way to super charge these crystal glue cell with either shampoo or 20 mule team borax, but it came at a price and would really damage the cells. Something in the detergents really did not like the metals and would prematurely kill the cells but I got the best amps reading this way.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 16, 2012, 10:32:08 PM
At 27 hours after they were made the higher voltages are still holding at .45 and .38 volts.The control has dropped to .180 volts already.Like you said when a week has gone by.I should know for sure.I was the one who used elmers school glue.I am still waiting for magnesium metal strips to come my way.You used copper and magnesium on your control in your video I believe.So I expect my control to drop even further since I used copper and aluminum.If the salt sub was my problem then maybe the school glue was not?If Ican get over a volt for each cell with the copper and magnesium then I will start building panels of these cells to keep a 12 volt car battery topped off.Then to get some leds going for light.triffid




To answer your question I did use elmers glue all.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 16, 2012, 10:39:57 PM
Once I get a panel of about 14 volts going I want to hook up the output to an oscilliscope my dad left behind.I told him that if he gave it to me that I would use it for free energy research.That was five years ago when he gave it to me.He died a couple of years later.He built it from a kit to help him fix tvs at the time.I can think of no better way to honor him.I want to see the ac component of this electricity.And the dc also.
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 16, 2012, 10:45:14 PM
I wonder if boric acid or aspirin would help the nu-salt sub?Or the morton salt sub for that matter?Aspirin is an acid in dry form.triffid






So is vitamin c for that matter.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 16, 2012, 10:52:54 PM
I have been wanting to use large metal sheets to build casimir plates that I can see.I know that they have to come together as close as possible without touching.I want to use the worlds thinnest paper for that job.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 17, 2012, 01:16:20 AM
I already tried two sheets of thin conductive paper one on top of each other and got nothing in the way of voltages.At 30 hours my control is at .11 volts and the other two glue cells are holding at about .40 volts each.If they read the same in the morning then I guess the Salt sub was my problem.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 17, 2012, 01:26:24 PM
Its been 42 hours since I made my last glue power cells.Their voltages are holding at .40 and .31 volts.The one with less voltage has less mass of crystal and less surface area of electrodes covered.So since I'm reading a lot more than .005 volts.I conclude that morton salt sub is the salt sub to use from now on.Since fumaric acid is the second ingredient listed it must be the second most abundant ingredient after potassium chloride.Thats how I understand these labels are to be read.Nu-Salt sub did not have fumaric acid listed at all in its contents.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 17, 2012, 01:31:20 PM
As a food additive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_additive), it is used as an acidity regulator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidity_regulator) and is denoted by the E number (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_number) E297. Fumaric acid is a food acidulent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidulated) used since 1946. It is non-toxic. It is generally used in beverages and baking powders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_powder) for which requirements are placed on purity. It is generally used as a substitute for tartaric acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartaric_acid)and occasionally in place of citric acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid), at a rate of 1.36 g of citric acid to every 0.91 grams of fumaric acid to add sourness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste#Sourness), similar to the way malic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malic_acid)is used. It is also used as a coagulant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coagulant) in stovetop pudding mixes.[/size]
It is approved for use as a food additive in the EU[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumaric_acid#cite_note-1), USA[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumaric_acid#cite_note-2) and Australia and New Zealand[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumaric_acid#cite_note-3) (where it is listed by its INS number 297).[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 17, 2012, 01:38:12 PM
Its been 42 hours since I made my last glue power cells.Their voltages are holding at .40 and .31 volts.The one with less voltage has less mass of crystal and less surface area of electrodes covered.So since I'm reading a lot more than .005 volts.I conclude that morton salt sub is the salt sub to use from now on.Since fumaric acid is the second ingredient listed it must be the second most abundant ingredient after potassium chloride.Thats how I understand these labels are to be read.Nu-Salt sub did not have fumaric acid listed at all in its contents.triffid


Glad to hear that the cells are still alive. i've notice that during the colder months the cells have less power but during the hotter months they have a lot more power. So as the weather warms up they should go up a little in voltage. Where did you get the "nu-salt" at?



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 17, 2012, 04:15:50 PM
I got the nu-salt at a grocery store named Schnucks. Theres a big chain of them here in st.Louis,mo..My control is holding at about .011 volts.My control is just mortons salt sub and elmers glue- all, copper and aluminum wires.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 17, 2012, 04:23:18 PM
IB2,when you did your video on squeezing your big blue cell to get more amps.Did you get some idea of your voltages?Did you get about 80 volts out of it when you were at your max amperage?triffid




I no longer think that atmospheric pressure is responsible,Just quantum pressure.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 17, 2012, 04:31:17 PM
I do think that all vibrations help to jiggle these casimir plates so higher temps making more power is not a complete shock to me.Maybe air pressure helps a little but not as much as I thought in the beginning.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 18, 2012, 05:08:32 PM
So now its been 70 hours(almost three days) since I made my last two cells.My voltages from my latest two cells are  .10 and .003 volts.These are the two cells I made with morton Salt sub.Yesterday they were reading .4 and .33 volts.So I don't know what to think right now.The tin can lid cell I made with a copper plated disk is steady at .015 volts.That the one I never stirred.So far my cells are not producing the voltages they are supposed to produce so what gives?My magnesium is not here yet.Yesterday was a day of rain but they were inside and the weather the last two or three days has been cold.I have been warm enough inside the house for me anyway.I will have to spend some time thinking about this.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 18, 2012, 05:43:27 PM
So now its been 70 hours(almost three days) since I made my last two cells.My voltages from my latest two cells are  .10 and .003 volts.These are the two cells I made with morton Salt sub.Yesterday they were reading .4 and .33 volts.So I don't know what to think right now.The tin can lid cell I made with a copper plated disk is steady at .015 volts.That the one I never stirred.So far my cells are not producing the voltages they are supposed to produce so what gives?My magnesium is not here yet.Yesterday was a day of rain but they were inside and the weather the last two or three days has been cold.I have been warm enough inside the house for me anyway.I will have to spend some time thinking about this.triffid


Are you sure you're using the correct glue, Elmer's Glue-all not school glue. If you can post pictures of the cells and how you make them would be helpful.


Are you adding the salt substitute and Epsom salt together when you mix it into the glue? If your just using Salt substitute than the cell will never work, you must add salt substitute and Epsom salt together into the glue.


How about taking a strip of paper and getting it wet and rubbing salt substitute and Epsom salt into the paper, wrap the paper around you copper and aluminum wires making sure the metals don't touch. Allow the cell to dry overnight and it should around 400mV. This cell eliminates the Glue factor and this cells should work.


I find it odd that the cells are not working for you, we will get them working for you but I need at least some pictures or videos of what you're doing; a picture is worth a 1000 words.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 12:08:15 AM
I got my magnesium today.So I made more cells (2) with just copper wires and magnesium strips.I got about 1.5 volts on the first one when wet.I had trouble with the second one bouncing all around.Then I made three more with tin can lids two with magnesium strips(about 1.3 volts wet) and the third one I did not stir.And used a copper plated zinc disk to see if I could get the same results.I did use elmers glue-all.I did not get the voltage of that one.I got a glimspe maybe of what I am doing wrong.Its in the mixing(stirring)I stroked a magnet 20 times across one tin can lid cell and lost the voltage,it went down to zero.(I had it as high as 1.3 volts and it went down to zero).I will see if I can get some pictures posted.My cell phone should be able to take some.I am having a hard time getting pictures to my email account.I may have to go to the t-mobile store to have them help me. I was upset when I read such low voltages this morning.With the second mg/copper cell I could not get the voltage to settle.So after about 5 minutes of messing with it I went on to the tin can lid cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 12:16:05 AM
When I put the glue on the cardboard
I make a spot about an inch across
I sprinkle the salt sub on it like an egg
I stirr it a little with the copper wire like in your video and i insert the copper wire into the mass
then I add the epson salts to the top of it I stir that into the mass wiith the magnesium strip and insert the magnesium strip into the mass
I then sprinkle more salt sub on top of this.In about ten minutes later it is difficult to move the wires around any more.With the elmers glue-all it wants to harden pretty fast.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 19, 2012, 01:51:41 AM
When I put the glue on the cardboard
I make a spot about an inch across
I sprinkle the salt sub on it like an egg
I stirr it a little with the copper wire like in your video and i insert the copper wire into the mass
then I add the epson salts to the top of it I stir that into the mass wiith the magnesium strip and insert the magnesium strip into the mass
I then sprinkle more salt sub on top of this.In about ten minutes later it is difficult to move the wires around any more.With the elmers glue-all it wants to harden pretty fast.


Have tried adding salt substitute and Epsom salt into the glue at the same time and then stir it? if the cells with the magnesium and copper go below 1.1 volts than it is not made right, they should easily hang above 1.3 volts. If you need me to make a new video about to make the crystal glue cell with the magnesium i can make one tomorrow. I don't know if it matters, it shouldn't matter, but have you tried using Notebook paper to place you cell on? Sometimes the copper will turn green as it dries, has that happen to you? What part of the world do you live at, I'm wondering if it really dry where you live?  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 09:46:16 AM
Central USA St.Louis,mo is where I live.Number 48 state in the union on the list of 50 states for economic growth in the union at this time.It is a state of misery for a lot of people.I think you stir your chemicals a lot more than I thought.In the beginning I stirred everything together and put it on a piece pf cardboard,(no voltage).If you make another video you need to weigh out exact amounts on a triple beam balance .So many grams of this salt sub,so many grams of epson salts.I noticed last night in your video you barely insert your electrodes in the glue mass.I  have been buring mine almost all the way in.Leaving a little part sticking out to test the voltmeter on.I tried notebook paper only for the control.My cardboard has been coming from hamburger helper boxes.From family dollar.I eat a lot of noodles.Its been 14 hours since I made all five of the new cells .The two cells on cardboard with mg/cu wire read 1.34 volts and 1.1 volts(yeah its most likely is messed up).The tincan lid cell with copper plated zinc disk is reading .25 volts just like the one before it.The other two tin can lid cells made with mg did not give me any readings at first.I had to poke around on them.In the crystal itself.I got 1.1 volts one time by touching the tin can lids together (in parallel) and touching the mg strip on the other cell.Its confusing to me too.The tin can lid cells are my doing so Im branching out in a different direction than you IB2.Those materials are nearly free to me.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 10:02:37 AM
I am making progress here.Even if its only one cell at a time.Once again I did not stir the tin can lid cells so I made three of those without stirring.The cells on cardboard I stirred.The first one went ok.The second one I messed up on somehow.It started getting hard really quick and I inserted the wires nearly 3/4 of the way in.(unlike your video IB2).It seems if I handle them too much I mess them up.I do try to keep the electrodes from touching.I retired here from texas in 2010.There were cheap houses here and I bought one cash money so I own my own house here(unlike texas)..I also have some family here.I took a picture last night I will go to t-mobile today to see if I can get help sending the picture to my email account.I can then download it here.Wish me luck.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 10:14:45 AM
To answer a couple of your questions I have no green copper and I stirred the salt sub into the glue along with epson salts.I noticed you just barely prick the blob with your wires so I have tried to bury my wires into the blob mass.A big difference there.On the tin can cells,no stirring and I drop the metal on top and press down a little.I noticed you stirred your cells a lot more than I had thought.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on January 19, 2012, 07:01:47 PM
 :)
Here is a video showing the duration test running on a few of my favorite crystal cells.  Notice the cell connected to the “PENNY” circuit is ibpointless2 original “STOVE TOP” cell encased in liquid plastic.  This cell has powered this circuit for over 4 months without any maintenance. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivvIYeQV30 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivvIYeQV30)
 
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 19, 2012, 07:17:05 PM
:)
Here is a video showing the duration test running on a few of my favorite crystal cells.  Notice the cell connected to the “PENNY” circuit is ibpointless2 original “STOVE TOP” cell encased in liquid plastic.  This cell has powered this circuit for over 4 months without any maintenance. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivvIYeQV30 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivvIYeQV30)
 
Brad S


Great Video!



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 10:39:27 PM
I went to the t-mobile store today like I said I would and asked for help in posting my two photos to the internet.I was told for the first time that my phone is only good for texting and calling.It can take pictures but it will not post them to my email account.Since I have had the phone for 6 months I was told I was due for an upgrade in 6 more months.I can get a free phone then but if I got it today I would have to pay full retail of $280.00.In the past I managed to to send a picture or two off but it was a pain in the (.......) to do so.My last phone before this one could take pictures but only send one at a time.SO I WILL SAY IT NOW T-MOBILE WILL SELL YOU A PHONE THAT CANNOT POST PICTURES TO THE INTERNET.So beware the new phone you get may only be good  only for calling and texting.I may upgrade to a whole different company.
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 10:49:09 PM
Not to worry I may upgrade to net 10 tomorrow.Or buy a disposable camera take pictures get it developed at a drugstore and order the cd at the same time.Two more weeks maybe.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 11:08:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Q50flSGRC9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Q50flSGRC9k)  this guy shows that as the heat goes up so does the voltage.He graphs his data.


likewise this guy left the house for a few days and turned off the air conditioner before he left.It got hot in his house.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jGtU6idJTc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jGtU6idJTc&feature=related)   his voltage increased while he was gone.


triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 19, 2012, 11:43:13 PM
This guy got 2.55 volts and 110(a tenth of an amp) milliamps from a dry crystal cell.He also uses his toes to hold the voltmeter down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHhUMnYbQag&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHhUMnYbQag&feature=related)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 20, 2012, 12:53:50 AM
Nothing to report the mg/copper cells are so jittery they pop up to 1.1 volts but they do not stay there.My tin can lid cell(with copper plated zinc disk) is holding steady at .31 volts but I expect it to level out at .14 volts after it drys out some more.I am happy to report that the tin can lid cells with mag strips are now sporting healthy voltages at 1.01 and 1.06.Its been 30 hours since they were made.So I will wait to see if my tin can lids cells drop down any futher.
The tin can lid cells were not stirred at all.I still want to find some mag disks as I think similar geometry of electrodes  benefit the collection of energy.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 20, 2012, 12:58:22 AM
If my tin can lid cells hold their voltage then I will be making panels out of them.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 20, 2012, 02:18:33 AM
Not to worry I may upgrade to net 10 tomorrow.Or buy a disposable camera take pictures get it developed at a drugstore and order the cd at the same time.Two more weeks maybe.triffid


If you can't get the pictures then don't worry about it.


Most computers now come with web cams that will take picture and video, if your computer doesn't have a web cam you can get them for $10 to $40 on Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=web+cam&x=0&y=0


But like i said if you can't don't worry about it.

Title: Rocks?
Post by: b_rads on January 20, 2012, 04:52:34 AM
Ibpointless2:
You mentioned earlier about finding rocks to serve as the negative terminal for a cell.  While goofing around in the shop, I performed a quick setup to test your idea.  In a small dish coiled on the bottom was stranded copper wire.  Powdered aquarium carbon on top of the copper wire and felt on top of the carbon and added water.  Here is what I found when applying slight pressure.
Magnesium    1.8 to 1.92 volts
Zinc             1.1 to 1.3 volts
Fools Gold - Iron Pyrite  0.01 to 0.03 volts
Yard Rock     0.35 volts
Antimony      0.45 to 0.5 volts
Lead Sinker   0.55 to 0.6 volts
Hope this helps.
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 20, 2012, 07:48:28 AM
B_rads,What did that yard rock like?Was it flint or just regular rock?Did you add any water to your setup?Was the aquarium charcoal wet or dry?Or was it straight out of the box?IB2,Its not impossible to get pictures.I did not like t-mobile selling me a phone that was lacking in service.The salesman almost grinned about it it seemed.He did try to send the picture but it was held up.And i recalled later that it was to a couple of friends on the phone that I had a very hard time sending a pic to.Not to my email account.Just a tough lesson to learn in the school of hard knocks.There are some net 10 phones at the local family dollar that have cameras.I will be checking them out in the next couple of days.I had net 10 but had no camera in my first phone with them.This store also sells the 50 dollar a month unlimited plan that I can use.
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 20, 2012, 08:01:44 AM
Brad,never mind that one question.I see you added water to your setup.thanks for the info.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 21, 2012, 12:29:17 AM
53 hours since my last batch of glue power cells were made.  1.19 volts and .89 volts for the mg/copper cells.They are jittery still but those were the top two voltages for them.My tin can lid cells are not so jittery.the one with copper plated zinc disk is still reading steady at .31 volts and the last two tin can lid cells with mg strips on top of them are producing .98 volts and .84 volts.If I have these same voltages tomorrow.Then
1) morton salt sub is the one to use.
2)I will make more tin can lid cells to put into a panel.
I wonder since the crystals are so fragile would a light dose of hairspray keep them intact?
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 21, 2012, 12:48:32 AM
I think I will use about 20 cells for my first panel.20 times .89 volts =17.8 volts.It would be enough volts to keep a 12 volt car battery topped off.With a blocking diode to keep the battery from running power through the panel.Its how I had my solar panels set up in texas.For eight years.I can run some leds and a radio off of this setup.
i have been thinking about the use of water to recharge some of these batteries.Its not such a bad thing to add a little and extract power from zero point energy for the next three days or longer.I posted a link to a video where the guy recycles the water by having everything inside a 2 liter bottle. And gives it a shake once every few days.I know to avoid water for my cells.But Im not talking about my cells.
What if one one way mankind can get energy from the vacuum is though using water?No need to break it down into oxygen and hydrogen to burn it?Not to get direct electricity from zero point?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 21, 2012, 12:56:07 AM
This is the researcher I'm talking about   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhLNjGpqfY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhLNjGpqfY&feature=related)   What if hes on to something here?
What if his electrodes never corrode?What if water could be used in a NEW WAY to get electricity directly from zero point?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 21, 2012, 02:47:11 AM
This is the researcher I'm talking about   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhLNjGpqfY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhLNjGpqfY&feature=related)   What if hes on to something here?
What if his electrodes never corrode?What if water could be used in a NEW WAY to get electricity directly from zero point?triffid


Yes I've seen Plengo's video's before. He does great work. From all my testing I've found that water is the main reason why metals corrode, but this doesn't mean that we should abandon water completely. Plengo and many others do post over here, this is where my cells got their start from, was from here [size=78%]http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7351-bedini-earth-light.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7351-bedini-earth-light.html)[/size]


Dealing with water can be tricky, water can and will corrode the metal if you don't use the correct electrolyte or correct metal. What made my cells so great was that they still gave a voltage even when dry.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 21, 2012, 04:34:09 PM
62 hours after they were made the mg/cu  cells read 1.06 and .68 volts(this one I messed up in its making).The two tin can lid cells made with magnesium read .87 and .76 volts .the tin can lid cell made with copper reads .28 volts.The other one(tin can lid/cu) reads .11volts.
Conclusions,I think I'm getting better at making these cells?
Mg is a power metal for sure
Mortons brand salt sub made the difference.
To get my 17.8 volt panel I will have to use more than 20 cells,24 cells at .78 volts each since I want to use my tin can lid,mag cells for that project.
Whats ahead besides making a panel?Letting these cells dry a little more.Get a more accurate number of volts since they tend to go down some more in volts as they dry some more.Maybe getting some charcoal and sand from my little beach down along the miss.river
everyone have a great day.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 22, 2012, 05:07:45 PM
Ok  four days have passed since my last cells were made(96 hours).The mg/cu cells are reading .78 and .62 volts. The tin can lid cells with mg are reading .86 and .75 volts.The tin can lid cell with copper plated zinc disk is reading .27 volts.


Since the cells I have to stir are not working properly(im told they need to be at least 1.1 volts when dry).I will use the tin can lids with mg which I do not have to stir to make my 17.8 volt  panel.I will need 24 cells to do that.In order to charge a 12 volt car battery you need about 18 volts coming in from somewhere.I will connect a fully charged battery to my panel and blocking diode.My purpose is to keep the battery topped off only and run some led lights from the car battery for now.No need to start with an empty battery at this time. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 22, 2012, 06:10:20 PM
  triffid:
   To get 18 volts into a 12 volt battery you would need many many many cells. As once the cells are connected to the load they will drop to about 1/10 of their starting voltage, plus have no real current to charge with. 
  You might do better charging small AA size rechargeable batteries, first.  But, you may still find that to charge them, you will need some current, which your cells don't have.
 
   Below is a picture of one of my cement cell banks, and no they don't work very well for charging batteries, regardless of how many volts they produce, and are best connected to low draw oscillators.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 22, 2012, 08:26:37 PM
NickZ those are good looking batteries.I guess I will plead insanity now.I know these cells have no current.Moray found a way to draw more out of them.I need to park this here so I can refer back to it .Just a very simple way to plate copper or nickle.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Xo43sfLgY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Xo43sfLgY&feature=related)  .I checked out my beach today.I can only get to it by climbing down a 40 foot hill.I guess I will wait for warmer weather to explore it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 22, 2012, 08:59:44 PM
 triffid:
   Just thought that I'd save you some time. You may be able to get to where you say to want to go by using oscillators with your cells, to help charge batteries. They will help to add voltage to batteries, but not much current.  The trick is in finding the oscillator circuit that will work, using hardly no current. Not that easy... but don't give up.
  I don't recommend making the cement cells anymore as they have high impedance, and will drop in voltage after a while, like most other cells will also.
On the other hand they are a year old and still lighting leds. 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 23, 2012, 12:46:55 AM
One of the things I plan to do is to put my finished panel on an oscilloscope to look at the ac component of this current if there is any.If theres AC then how can these batteries act as a diode?If an AC current gets through?Diodes block AC by definition.So if any AC gets through its not a diode.I had solar panels hooked up to a car battery in a corner of my house in Texas.I made some electricity for eight years.I was still hooked up to the grid.So I had both.The truth is most likely it will take another 100 years to make these crystal batteries more powerful and much smaller than what you or I could do today.But when they catch on the human race will be taking them to other star systems in the starships to come.By then money and research will have changed them into power sources.That we can be proud of.Proud that we played a small part.It only takes one person to make a difference.Luther Burbank feeds the world today with the Russet potato.A mutation he spotted and kept alive when others would have walked away.I read a book on him once.He even developed a spineless catus that cattle could eat.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 23, 2012, 12:56:53 AM
Im not really set up to melt anything or heat anything on the stove.I do have a hotplate.I could glue stuff together.I will be using aluminum duct tape to connect my cells together.A trick that another researcher has already done.I am in the process of getting enough tin can lids together.Not all tin can lids are conductive anymore.Most of them seem to have a thin layer of plastic on them anymore?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 23, 2012, 01:03:44 AM
If I had 2000 of these cells hooked up in series that would give me 1500 volts.What can a guy do with 1500 volts and very little current?
just a question?He could separate water into hydrogen and oxygen without drawing much current or any current if I understand that Stan Meyers was correct in his knowledge in the operation of his water cell? triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 23, 2012, 01:09:39 AM
In Texas I worked for a giant company that made electronics smaller and smaller.So 2000 cells could in theory fit on a chip.Not today by you or I but in the future. By people or corporations with big money.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 23, 2012, 01:31:14 PM
For the time being I have decided not to use tin can lids in my first panel.First I still need about 15 lids. Its hard for me to eat that much Libbys crushed pineapple by myself in a short time.But I have liked to eat eggs and have three or four empty egg (30 count) on hand cartons or flats as they call them.One foot by one foot and two inches high.They are pretty compact So tuesday I will make a panel consisting of 30 cells using copper wire and magnesium metal strip.I will do each cell one at a time.Then 48 hours later work on connecting the cells together.I expect voltages to settle down to about 20 volts as it drys more and more.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 24, 2012, 02:39:21 AM
4 micro crystal glue cells powering a LED


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbIfXMXh6gM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbIfXMXh6gM)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 24, 2012, 05:58:12 PM
My egg carton 30 cell panel is now drying.Once I had all the metal wires and strips cut and all the materials on hand within arms reach.Putting it together was not so bad.I want to add more glue to each cell at this point.But I am fighting that urge(maybe on the next panel).In 48 hours from now I will pick it up again,test each cell put them in series If good.I used copper wires and magnesium strips.These are the cells I had to stir.Each cell acted like a funnel.The glue and dry stuff went into each cell very nicely.Theres no waste in making this panel.I had to pay attention to detail.Make sure each cell had electrodes in it and facing the right direction.I was out all day yesterday getting last minute supplies for this project.At Home depot I foiund aluminum wire(50 feet on a roll). Bought more elmers glue-all.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 24, 2012, 06:12:39 PM
This guy is really creative when it comes to experimenting.Hes melting his alum and epson salts in a large spoon over a candle.And he has a homemade vacuum chamber.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIz-DbdDqk&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIz-DbdDqk&feature=relmfu)


same guy using a candle to melt his stuff.Very stable readings too Voltages not jumping all over the place.[size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESzzjftzGfg&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESzzjftzGfg&feature=relmfu)[/size]




Same guy he makes his own copper sulfate.  [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=egCfD2B5VRw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=egCfD2B5VRw)[/size]


I like this guy,Hes more backwoods chemistry than I am.I could learn a lot from him.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 24, 2012, 08:19:44 PM
IB2,I like the idea of using soda straws as battery casings.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 24, 2012, 10:59:50 PM
If I were a guessing man and sometimes I am.I would guess that these crystal batteries that we can make in our kitchens and home labs can operate at less than one percent efficiency.That could mean in theory or at least in my dreams,we scould be looking at a 100 folt increase in power for these devices.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 25, 2012, 07:53:48 PM
Ok tomorrow I start connecting the wires in my 30 cell panel.Today I bought about 25 assorted LEDs to play with.This time I worried about too much power.(burning them out)If I'm not careful.Any way I measured my Cells I made last week and they are about the same.No drops in voltage since the last readings.Best one is 1.06 volts and the tin can lid cells(mg) are holding at about .8 volts easy.The tin can lid cell (copper plated zinc disk) is reading .28 volts. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 25, 2012, 09:13:55 PM
  Triffid:
   You don't need to worry about burning out the leds, as there is practically no current, as mentioned before, even less than a single AA battery would have. 
Once you connect the leds as the load,  the voltage from your cells will also drop to about 1/4 or so, of the original unloaded voltage.
   Good luck,
                      NickZ
                                                                               
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 26, 2012, 06:19:58 PM
The glue cells dried pretty well but since these are the ones I have to stir.I found some really weak ones plus I assumed my aluminum duct tape was conductive(it was not conductive).Since the voltages were not adding up for ten cells I checked the conductivity of the tape I was using and found it was not doing the job of connecting my cells.We all know what they say about assuming stuff.In the process of pulling the tape off of about ten cells I broke the leads to two cells.So I did a reglue on those two.(a redo).I then added more glue to the other eight.
So now the whole thing has to dry again for 48 hours.I need to make some conductive glue.so I need to find some powdered graphite and make my own conductive glue.
I did manage to connect some cells together anyway and got a voltage of almost two volts.But not more.Even with three cells in series.






I assumed something and it made an (...) out of me.Sorry People.I will try again in another 48 hours.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 26, 2012, 06:23:24 PM
I think using tape to connect these cells is not the way to go.I think a conductive glue would have been better.The electrodes are close enough to connect with a glob of glue.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 26, 2012, 06:42:16 PM
Last night I made my driest cell yet. I took a drinking straw and crimped one end and poured some salt substitute into it and inserted copper and magnesium electrodes in. No water was added. At first I was getting barely 30mV but when I squeezed the cell with my hand i saw a jump up to 300mV. So I figured pressure was key here so I grabbed my c-clamp and started to crush the cell and had it reach 900mV! I noticed the meter was acting like a load and was draining the cell so at 314mV i disconnected the cell from the meter and let it rest. When I reconnected the cell it has climbed back up to 600mV. So I then I let it rest some more and I was getting 950mV. Thinking this was a fluke i let it rest over night and i woke to find it was at 850mv, So it did go down a little but not much. So from what I learn from this I got some small copper tubing and crimped one end and pour some salt substitute into it and inserted the magnesium strip into it. I started crushing the copper tubing so that it can hold the pressure for me instead of using a c-clamp. Now the cell is reading 1.351v. The bad news is that I'm getting no amps. I do think this is some type of piezoelectric effect but usually piezoelectric never keeps giving you a constant voltage over time. piezoelectric usually gives a spike of voltage and that's it and not this constant voltage i'm getting.[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 26, 2012, 11:10:05 PM
I was thinking for a while that these crystals could be some fancy form of thermocouple.Thermocouples only give off millivolts.And we are talking about millivolts,not volts.On my cells connected together.I put five together.I could only get about 1.8 volts.My panel may need three or more weeks of work on it.There certainly is a lot to be learned from these cells.I thought too that maybe elmers glue-all mixed with the salt sub[size=78%]could be conductive?A panel is only as good as its weakest cell allows it.I liked your work with the soda straw casing.Crushing the copper tubing was a good idea too.triffid[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 26, 2012, 11:40:46 PM
Mostly this topic is not related to the thread but he does show how he builds salt water capacitors.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opu7AHlLaRI&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opu7AHlLaRI&feature=relmfu)  Some thing I know we might all want to do sooner or later.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 27, 2012, 11:27:46 PM
I m waiting another day for my panel to dry.I took a crystal battery down today to McDonalds  to show a friend of mine that its working.Theres a group of senior citizens that meet for breakfast there and coffee.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on January 28, 2012, 02:20:37 AM

 Hello Triffid and IB...


 Yeah triffid these are very novel batteries.


 @IB  Thats very interesting. You might think of them this way. Think of them as strings pulled tightly. When you compress them it pulls the string tighter raising the pitch of the sound the string makes. As you compress the crystals it makes them more sensitive to the surrounding natural energy vibrations. It allows the natural electric vibrations to be amplified by the piezoelectric nature of the crystals. This energy that you see coming out of these batteries are simply the static portion of energy. Thats why there is no current per say. And nick is right since this voltage has little in the way of current it allows you to run the diodes well beyond their natural capabilities as plengo has been finding out.


 Now what can we do with this then? Well as long as you have voltage we can complete a path and through induction can transform it down and increase the current. This is what is being done with the oscillators. This energy can even charge caps and discharged into a coil to give even more punch through a step down transformer.


 I think there is a limit to the additive nature of the cells. What I mean is like diodes they have a reverse breakdown value. When this reverse breakdown value is reached they go into electrolysis mode and that destroys the battery... The problem is how do we figure that value out? Someone out there has made a huge stack of these and it seems they hold up well.. Let me see if I can get the video of it.


here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGdpa3GKN34&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLF04D0E8898016703

Now lets think of this from a different perspective. When I was playing with my batteries I switched the meter to ac and to my chagrin I saw a much higher voltage then what was seen as DC. I know that will happen even with regular batteries but this was different. When I put a fullwave bridge rectifier on it I got the same voltage out as if the rectifier wasn't there. Now think of what an led is... Diode? Aha!!!! You got it. You would think that the rectifier would drop the voltage real low but yet I got the same numbers when reading the dc after the rectifier. Maybe the diodes are doing the same thing. They are being powered by AC and not dc. I have not scoped the batteries yet but I am thinking I will find an ac voltage there but I have to remake my set. I used the bad salt substitute and they ran dry. They still have some voltage but not like they were when I first made them...


 I also see plengo is using carbon now and that is wonderful. I think he will see some longevity with those batteries now but we will see. My test with aluminum and carbon came out real bad. The aluminum was eaten apart by the water I used to cement the carbon with graphite lead with. The oxidation layer I tried to leave on the aluminum wasn't thick enough and it ate clear trough the cap can I used. Plengo has gone the route of copper, carbon, alum, sodium something and magnesium, He is getting very good results and likewise increased led output from only 3 cells. But if he is using water I fear he is going to be discouraged when he finds corrosion from the water, even with the oxidation on the magnesium. I think carbon eats the oxidation layer but I haven't tested that out yet.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 28, 2012, 04:37:22 AM
   It is possible that when using carbon and magnesium, or aluminum that even in a dry cell there may be some corrosion in the metals, if air is present, but that is where a protective layer of oxides on the metals would help, also,  sealing the cell. 
  I think that the main thing is finding the way to totally avoid water, instead of relying on it.  But, what can you do with just voltage, I can't light an led on 7.5 volts, alone without some current. Maybe it takes a higher voltage yet.
   I think that the idea that if a cells voltage gets to be above a voltage that is the cells  electronegative values, galvanics will take over.  But, below that value there is another process going on.  So, how to utilize and improve on that is the trick,  maybe that doesn't have to end at the microamps levels.
   The idea of using tourmaline in the cell mix sound interesting.  I still go for the quartz/carbon combo. 
  Plengo has been having some luck with the activated aquarium carbon.  I'll have to give that a try sometime...  the B.B.Q. charcoal here is no good for cell use.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 28, 2012, 08:27:41 AM
Lets look at it like the solar panels.Whats the maximum number of solar cells that you can in a solar panel?Can I put one 1000 cells in series?Or is there a limit?If I have only voltage what can I do with it?A while back I said that I guessed these devices may be less than one percent
efficient.Let me run with that just a little.If I am correct.I found someone on the net who said he got 2.55 volts and 1/10 amp out of one crystal cell.So 2.55 volts x100=255.0 volts,then 100x1/10=10.At close to 100 percent efficiency then we should get 255 volts x10 amps =2550 watts of power could be possible per cell.If only we knew how to get it.We have known about the photoelectric effect since 1905 I believe but it was only in the 1950's that the solar cell was first marketed to the public with about 4 percent efficiency.Today you are lucky to buy solar cells that are 10 percent efficient.I did buy one at 20 percent.It was neat to see it charging at even low light levels.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 28, 2012, 08:35:37 AM
Not too long ago like last month it was announced that 40 percent efficient solar cells had been developed.If cost effective each state could generate enough power for its own use just by setting aside enough land to build photovoltaic power generating  plants.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 28, 2012, 08:40:36 AM
Yes I believe that what we make at home right now are less than one percent efficient.Never the less we are showing that here is a power source waiting to be tapped and developed.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 28, 2012, 05:20:17 PM
My panel of 30 cells were dry enough for me to work with.This time I checked each cell to see if it was working properly(by working could it produce over a volt?).I marked the cells that did not.I only had eight good cells out of thirty.A couple of the good ones popped up to 1.3 volts.
I went ahead and added more morton salt sub,epson salts,more salt sub,Then without mixing it at all I added another glob of glue on top.I did this to all the bad cells.Now I have to wait another 48 hours to let it dry.Then I will see if I was able to fix the bad cells at all.Since the electrodes were already stuck in the first batch of dried glue in the bad cells I decided no more mixing was required.Since I had good results with not mixing,just layering.I decide to layer all the bad cells(22 of them).triffid




I may be wrong in my calculations but my point really was don't expect to make too much power out of these for a few years(like 50 more?).
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 29, 2012, 02:48:38 AM
An article on making cheap capacitors.   http://www.ehow.com/how_8489657_make-cheap-capacitor.html (http://www.ehow.com/how_8489657_make-cheap-capacitor.html)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 29, 2012, 02:58:46 AM
More on capacitors   http://www.eham.net/articles/5217 (http://www.eham.net/articles/5217) air variable capacitor that is.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 29, 2012, 03:12:49 PM
This epsiode of FRINGE mentions rock batteries powerful enough to rip a hole in the universe.   http://www.hulu.com/watch/321420/fringe-enemy-of-my-enemy (http://www.hulu.com/watch/321420/fringe-enemy-of-my-enemy)  Its mentioned in the last half of the show. so now they are in the popular culture mainstream?  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 30, 2012, 05:18:48 PM
I looked at my panel today.I used alligator clips without wires to make connections.I need to let the whole thing dry another week it seems.
I did manage to connect three dry cells in series to hook up the voltmeter to and try to light up some leds.I managed to get about 1.9 volts only to see it drop down 1.5 volts.None of the leds would light up.If I connected three(7 altogether) more cells in series then I got less than a volt.So dry,dry,dry some more I guess.NickZ you are right I get some voltage but no amps.At this point I'm about ready to put it on the back burner for a while.If I can't add voltages then I have nothing here.I have to figure out why those seven cells in series gave me less than a volt.Dry baby dry.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 12:21:54 AM
This guy is trying to build a 24 volt panel from earth batteries.He fails he only gets 6.8 volts.Good tips on panel construction.Useful to me so I am including it here.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQrqOJlooRU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQrqOJlooRU&feature=related)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 02:25:12 AM
This guy built about 8 or 9 cells and shows his results.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83le8v0Aeqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83le8v0Aeqo)
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 02:59:37 AM
A quick lesson on voltage doublers( diodes and capacitors).   http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/49/fM3QMl0MYeE (http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/49/fM3QMl0MYeE)   triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 03:02:39 AM
Here this guy gets 1.9 volts and enough amps to run a 1.7 volt 2 milliamp led from radio shack.Using only melted epson salts,copper and magnesium.   http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/2/J9CM33618Ww (http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/2/J9CM33618Ww)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 03:11:03 AM
This guy explains a little on his cement batteries.   http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/4/FVB3DzPLaRg (http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/4/FVB3DzPLaRg)  What I don't understand is there is a thin layer of plastic on the inside of these cans.That would make it non conductive.Do you guys burn it off or does the cement dissolve it somehow in the curing? triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 03:17:06 AM
A quick lesson on how to wire an led.  http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/8/91fL9KKMFXg (http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/8/91fL9KKMFXg)
yes I needed it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 03:21:38 AM
Simplest joule thief circuit.   http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/7/8j0QT7zWuTE (http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/7/8j0QT7zWuTE)   triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 03:41:17 AM
Crystal radio with led burning bright enough to light his room but guy is one mile from radio station.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcui0K7JZXA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcui0K7JZXA)


triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 31, 2012, 04:06:30 AM
   triffid:
   Sorry to hear that I was right.  I would hope that when all of the glue dries up totally, you'll get some voltage back. Maybe separate the cells that show no voltage and just work with the ones that do, for now.  Try to use three of your best cells to see if you can light an led.  Check their current output levels also. 
  You won't get anywhere by putting the project on the back burner...   Even if it is not as easy as it seamed.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on January 31, 2012, 01:28:56 PM
I never could get an led to light on a single cells. It always took 4+ cells to light an led but I only used aluminum and graphite. With 5 being my personal best. Unfortunately water is the key in these cells, even when you think it is not. Water is in everything since it is the ultimate solvent.


 Epsom salts seems to be the best water though. This is because it is crystalline water(very organized with minimum oxygen) <--- This is key. Yes other crystals have differing amounts of water in them and yes they vary on the crystallization(organization) of the water but all crystals use water to some degree. It is how crystals refract light and it is how they desiccate things (salts). Salts are merely water crystals that the water has dried up from. All crystals are formed in water. What happens to them afterwards and what their components are dictates their properties. Water is also a very good medium to store natural energy. This energy was termed Radiant energy for lack of a better word and only describes the action of the energy, not it's true name.


 Tesla was dealing with the true energy and only one extreme of the scale. It is the motivator of all currents and the source of all life. We are merely capacitors for water and it is the reason we live. When that comes out of balance we shuck our cocoon we call our bodies and continue to exist on a different reality.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 31, 2012, 01:55:40 PM
This guy built about 8 or 9 cells and shows his results.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83le8v0Aeqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83le8v0Aeqo)
triffid


This video is a John Hutchinson replication. This cell is not what it seems, it absorbs water like crazy and quickly corrodes the metals. This cell is not useful and very destructive. Either John Hutchinson is not giving us the right formula or he's a fraud.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 31, 2012, 02:00:26 PM
Here this guy gets 1.9 volts and enough amps to run a 1.7 volt 2 milliamp led from radio shack.Using only melted epson salts,copper and magnesium.   http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/2/J9CM33618Ww (http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/2/J9CM33618Ww)  triffid




This video is of John Bedini show off a Epsom salt cell. This cell only works when the Epsom salt is heated, once heated the Epsom salt will release water from its lattice and thus the cell starts to work. Once the Water retreats back into the lattice the cell does not work and you must reheat it to get voltage.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 31, 2012, 02:06:50 PM
This guy explains a little on his cement batteries.   http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/4/FVB3DzPLaRg (http://www.youtube.com/user/magnetman2010#p/f/4/FVB3DzPLaRg)  What I don't understand is there is a thin layer of plastic on the inside of these cans.That would make it non conductive.Do you guys burn it off or does the cement dissolve it somehow in the curing? triffid


This video is of Lidmotor, he's a great replicator. This video was done last year and those cement cells are dead for the most part, some still give a volt but with no amps at all. Triffid if you're able to I would recommend making a cement cells, they're great learning cells to play with and cheap too. Just add water to the cement and stick your electrodes in and let it dry. You can experiment with different things to add to the cement cell too. But the bad news is that it takes months and even years for the cement cells to dry so over time they will die out due to lack of water in the cement, but they're fun cells to make. Lidmotor used a coke can but he sand-papered the inside down to expose the aluminum under the plastic coating of the can. I would not use a coke can if your electrodes are small, I used small plastic cups with copper and magnesium sticking out from it. I highly recommend making a cement cell they're fun and I still have a copper and aluminum one that still gives me a volt and its over a year old but it has almost no amps to it.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on January 31, 2012, 02:16:13 PM
Triffid,


I don't understand why the crystal glue cell is not working for you. You should be getting anywhere from 1.3 volts to 1.5 volts on  a dry cell. If you're not getting this then some thing is wrong with the material you used. Due to the high resistance of the cells you won't be able to put no more than 5 in series before you start to loose voltage. The best bet is to put 5 in series than 5 in parallel. These cells won't be able to charge a 12 volt battery, they're made to power low power things. It is true you can scale up and use bigger metal and more electrolyte and you could power a 12 volt battery but we have not made it that far yet.


The best thing I can think to help you is if you put the crystal glue cells aside and make a few cement cells. Cement cells are easy to make, just add water to the cement and insert electrodes into it and let dry. Once you made one you can start to add different things to the cement like epsom salt and other crystals to see what crystal affect it and gives you the most power. The cement cells can more easily put in series and they contain some of the ingredients  like Sodium silicate that is said to be used in the Marcus Reid cells.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on January 31, 2012, 03:28:15 PM
  triffid and anyone interested:
   If you are going to make some cement cells, I would use the taller soda or beer cans.
 I use washed beach sand with a fairly dry mix of cement, and pack it into the sanded aluminum can (sand the inside first couple of inches or more), and press the mix as tight as possible, and remove any excess water.  Place an insulator (plastic) into the bottom of the cans. I also use the inverted copper spiral as shown in the picture. The more copper the more juice it puts out, as the inverted spiral shape allows me to get almost 70mA from each cell.  These cell can be placed in series, but not in parallel.  If you just stick a copper tube or wire into the cell as the positive pole, you will not get much power, and it will fade quickly, like most people have noticed with their cells.
  Big aluminum capacitor cans work better than the thin aluminum soda cans.
 Use as little water as possible, and don't try to additionally bump charge the cell once it is made.  Make 4 cells and connect them in series to get at 4 to 5 volts out of them.
   NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 05:49:53 PM
Thanks everyone for your input.I do appreciate it. I stumble around a lot when it comes to doing things.What I noticed on my panel sunday was the cardboard was wet so maybe the cells are not electrically isolated until it dries more?If epson salts is the key factor here Im sure it has a brother or sister crystal material that could be tried?I will study your comments more.I do better sometimes taking a break from a task.I see these things now like fuzzy balls of energy(separation of charge,more of a static charge type thing).I can let my panel dry a little more and try to study other peoples video clips for now.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 08:41:01 PM
Once again my tin can lid cells/mg are still working with .9 and .8 volts.My beef with them is I have to eat a lot of canned pineapple to get the tin can lids to work with.These are the cells I do not have to stir.
The suggestion to cut out the good cells is a good one.I think I have three good cells at least.If I need ten to light an led then then i might not be able to do it without making another panel.
 Epsom salts seems to be the best water though. This is because it is crystalline water(very organized with minimum oxygen) <--- This is key. Yes other crystals have differing amounts of water in them and yes they vary on the crystallization(organization) of the water but all crystals use water to some degree. It is how crystals refract light and it is how they desiccate things (salts). Salts are merely water crystals that the water has dried up from. All crystals are formed in water. What happens to them afterwards and what their components are dictates their properties. Water is also a very good medium to store [color=rgb(0, 0, 255) !important]natural energy[/color]. This energy was termed Radiant energy for lack of a better word and only describes the action of the energy, not it's true name.
I'm trying to see what else could take the place of epson salts.There are two isomers of epson salts(magnesium sulfate).
I need to spend time on studying that.Thanks to all for your comments.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on January 31, 2012, 08:57:29 PM
Magnesium chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_chloride), oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_oxide), gluconate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_gluconate), malate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_malate), orotate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_orotate) and citrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_citrate) are all used as oral magnesium supplements. Oral magnesium supplements have been claimed to be therapeutic for some individuals who suffer from Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restless_leg_syndrome).[citation needed][/li]
[li]Magnesium borate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borate), magnesium salicylate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_salicylate), and magnesium sulfate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate) are all used as antiseptics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiseptic).[/li]
[li][/size]
The above compounds are food grade.I thought it important for now to stay with food grade chemicals since we are buying everything food grade except for the different metals used for electrodes.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 01, 2012, 03:30:14 AM
test
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 01, 2012, 05:37:43 PM
Sorry guys I found out today that I was not using my voltmeter properly.OL means over the limit.I was using only a 2 volt setting.OL meant I had to switch to a higher range like 20 volts.Once I switched to 20 volts I got 2.68 volts one time.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 01, 2012, 05:47:34 PM
I played with my panel today.I measured the voltage of each cell separately and wrote down the numbers.I found 15 of my 30 cells were producing at least 1.3 volts or higher(1.37 was the highest).Three cells were producing only .2 volts,the rest ranged between.61 to 1.26 volts.


i did most of my measurements before I figured out what OL was.I tired me out and my cells were tired out too.I did four different readings on four cells hooked up in series.Each time I disconnected and reconnected the alligator clips.I got,1.44,1.44,.84,.82 volts.I can fix my bad cells I think.I did not do any Leds today.Tomorrow is another day.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 02, 2012, 04:26:59 PM
Greetings all!! Awesome thread, looking forward to contributing (eventually).
Great videos Ib!! Hopefully I will be embarking on my own 'salt' battery experiments soon.
I have done a bit of research and believe that the reason the salt substitute is working as an electrolyte is the nature of the potassium chloride molecule. Talk about crystalline structure!! (see pic)
I think the epsom salt (epsomite) lines up better in water and works the same way.
Sodium carbonate (baking soda): In chemistry, it is often used as an electrolyte. This is because electrolytes are usually salt-based, and sodium carbonate acts as a very good conductor in the process of electrolysis.
Borax: Borax, also known as sodium borate, sodium tetraborate, or disodium tetraborate, is an important boron compound, a mineral, and a salt of boric acid. It is usually a white powder consisting of soft colorless crystals that dissolve easily in water. I've read the Borax has worked well in some recipes?
ALL of these dissolve in water. ALL of these form crystals when the water is removed. Pretty sure they all attract water too (because they are salts!)...
Dissimilar metals and salt crystals for electrolyte (capacitance AND inductance?). Seems like a LOT of fun to me!!
IB, is there a way you can take one of your pressure tube cells and roll it up like a snail shell (or a tightening spiral maybe)? Not sure that would do anything but it might increase the pressure on the inside a bit (voltage/current up?). I'm thinking snail shells and nautilus shells are shaped that way for a reason right? Just an idea that literally popped into my head just now.
I've made some drawings and hope to start building soon. Keep up the great work guys!!!
Happy experimenting and stay safe!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 02, 2012, 06:04:07 PM
I got my panel out again.Checked the voltage of each and every cell like I did yesterday.The cells I hooked up in series yesterday had lower voltages today.I did  connect two good cells that were side by side and managed to light up half a dozen of the assorted leds I got from radio shack.All of them dimly but I could tell that they were working.I tested each led one at a time.I have one hooked up now and will let it run for a while in the living room in the dark so I can look at it all day.I was able to add up the voltages from two cells ok ,but adding ten together does not work very well.The two cells added up to 2.56 volts since each one was 1.3 that made sense.But hook up 10 and I got 1.77 and 1.55 volts.
I did start working on another panel.This one is with the tin can lids I seem to do well with.I had seven lids,using tin ships I cut each lid into fourths so I have 28 pieces of metal to make a cell with.I glued these fish scales which is what they look like into the bottom of a little ceasars pizza box(the cleanest one out of four emptys I had on hand) .They give me lower voltages but I do not have to stir them.Plus they appear to be very stable in the long run. So 28 times.8 volts =22.4 volts.I hope to have it finished and drying by friday.
I hooked up the two cells to a speaker and heard static for the first time rubbing the contacts on each other.It was like hearing static from a crystal radio.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 02, 2012, 06:16:09 PM
Problems I see is high resistance in the  cells and if you touch one too much it breaks some of the connections in the crystal structure resulting in lower voltages.
Solutions might be add something else to the glue when you start to make these cells.Maybe a drop of vinegar?Maybe a pinch of boric acid?maybe a pinch of citric acid or crushed asprin?
The brand of salt sub does seem to matter.Morton brand has fumaric acid in it(maybe less than one percent(my guess)).Nu-salt brand did not have that acid in it at all.So maybe adding a another dry acid  to the glue could reduce resistance?Like boric acid?
Please remember my cells did not work at all until I started using mortons brand of salt sub.



As far as handling the cells be gentle and do as little as possible.




triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 02, 2012, 11:27:24 PM
after about four hours of letting the led burn.I took it off and measured 2.25 volts between the two cells I have hooked up in series.I then reattached the led and got it burning again.Dim but on.I plan to let it run all night long.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: rescoalabama on February 03, 2012, 06:33:06 AM
hi
i am new to this site but i remember you work a lot with capacitors, i have question? i am work on a radiant receiver i have got a steady 12vdc at 8ua this allows me to charge a 3300uf cap which will flash a light, i tried capacitors in series but it seems only to use one. don't know why. do you know of any caps that would work better
thanks   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 03, 2012, 08:55:22 PM
I let my led burn through the night.Its still on, running off of two cells in series.The led is dimly lit.But its working. Thats what matters.To the guy with the question about capacitors a little bit of math will make your life go a lot easiler.Look up capacitiors on the internet.Try to find some formulas.A little bit of review never hurt anyone.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 03, 2012, 09:02:09 PM
Heres a link to some formulas for series and parallel hookups.  http://www.electronicrepairguide.com/series-and-parallel-capacitors.html (http://www.electronicrepairguide.com/series-and-parallel-capacitors.html)
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 04, 2012, 03:55:34 AM
Today I put together my second panel of crystal power cells.Its now drying.I used tin can lids and magnesium metal strips.On my other panel I hooked up 5 cells and got over 3 volts which then settled down to 2.95 volts.As of this time the led is still glowing almost 9 pm now.I had it hooked up yesterday,disconnected it twice today.Hooked it up again.Still glowing dimly.triffid
Title: Bioplastic Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on February 06, 2012, 03:55:29 PM
Yet, another way to make crystal cells.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odBgjdJMN7g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odBgjdJMN7g)
 
@ibpointless2:
I followed as close as I could the method shown in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_eDLyfzp8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_eDLyfzp8)
I added your crystal recipe to the mix prior to heating on the hot plate.  Once the mix was ready (caution – do not undercook – use low heat) I packed it into ½” PVC pipe and inserted the electrodes.  I also made some thick sheets with the leftover mix and after 2 days curing, placed the sheet between copper and magnesium and this works pretty good as well.
 
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 06, 2012, 11:07:30 PM
A curious thing,do your cells get stronger when you step away?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tb2IRGXf8o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tb2IRGXf8o&feature=related)
Your body has bioelectric fields around it.Now I ask you do you feel tired around your cells? Even sometimes?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 06, 2012, 11:15:40 PM
Another curious thing is induction.This is a simple one to one ratio transformer but wrap more than one turn for the secondary you get higher voltage for very little cost.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=AaYOph1I3uw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=AaYOph1I3uw)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 06, 2012, 11:24:05 PM
Last Night I hooked up in series three of my cells producing 1.03 volts and got 3.00 volts.These were my tin can lid/mg cells and ran an LED off of it all night.In the morning  the voltage tested at about 2.25 volts.In the morning most of those cells are not producing 1.03 volts..
I bought paper clips to use as cheap connectors.I plan to use the copper wires out of old cords to make connections.Old cords are made of many strands of copper wire.Thin but they should carry the weak currents of these glue cells ok.Black electrical tape might help tighten connections?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 06, 2012, 11:38:28 PM
Two years ago when I finally retired I wanted to make solar panels out of solar cells.I spent $1000 on buying solar cells from Ebay.Once I bought all of those(about enough for ten panels) I realized a full half of that $1000 went for shipping and handling($500).So I stopped buying solar cells thinking there had to be a better way.Here with the glue power cells I can buy most of my materials in the grocery stores where everyone has shared the cost of shipping and handling with me already.Hence My mindset towards turning these things into panels.I want to build rock cell panels now.They don't need sunlight.They run day and night.With that in mind I realized Im not where I want to be.One panel the cells dont add up properly.Maybe a chemical is leached from the cardboard(of the 30 count egg cartons) when the cells are wet?Adding resistance to the cells that I do not want? The tin can lid/mg cells added up great last night.Three one volt cells added up to three volts.They did not touch cardboard when they were drying.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 06, 2012, 11:46:38 PM
In the future I plan to solder connections where I can.I cant solder magnesium without starting a fire.The tin can lids can take solder If I cut a strip of it and push it to the side without breaking it off. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 06, 2012, 11:53:24 PM
  If I were you I would continue with the solar cells.  As it would take about 1.235.545 of these crystal cells to make the same amount of power.  As there is no current to them, and without current you'll see that the leds won't light very bright, if at all.  Once your cells drop a bit more the leds will stop lighting. This will probably take another day or two.
Let me know if I'm wrong...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 07, 2012, 01:45:57 AM
These panels here I can almost make for the price of food.I dont eat glue or copper wire of course or magnesium strip metal for that matter.I can make copper oxide solar cells which I did back in the early 1990s.They are less than one percent efficient.I see some use of it here in the crystal cells but it is a solar cell(the red oxide).I thought what I would do is make about four of these cells to fit inside a glass jar.Hook them up in series and run an LED off of them.Have a fully selfcontained LED nightlight that I can show off to some people.See how long that would last?




Other question I have is did my elmers school glue did not work because I did not have the right salt sub?


Also did you guys normal table salt cells not work because it had no fumaric acid in it?


If fumaric acid made my cells work would adding it to normal table salt cells make them work?
I need to get some pure fumaric acid to anwser those  questions I guess?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 07, 2012, 01:56:03 AM
As a food additive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_additive), it is used as an acidity regulator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidity_regulator) and is denoted by the E number (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_number) E297. Fumaric acid is a food acidulent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidulated) used since 1946. It is non-toxic. It is generally used in beverages and baking powders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_powder) for which requirements are placed on purity. It is generally used as a substitute for tartaric acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartaric_acid)and occasionally in place of citric acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid), at a rate of 1.36 g of citric acid to every 0.91 grams of fumaric acid to add sourness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste#Sourness), similar to the way malic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malic_acid)is used. It is also used as a coagulant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coagulant) in stovetop pudding mixes.[/size]
It is approved for use as a food additive in the EU[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumaric_acid#cite_note-1), USA[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumaric_acid#cite_note-2) and Australia and New Zealand[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumaric_acid#cite_note-3) (where it is listed by its INS number 297).[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 07, 2012, 01:58:43 AM


test
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 07, 2012, 04:18:05 AM
@ Triffid,
Thanks for your posts, most informative. I read in one of the earlier posts that you want Elmer's GLUE ALL, not the school glue variety you have been using. They have different ingredients apparently.
I still have a few purchases before I can start some decent long-term 'dry cell' experiments I would like to do yet, but I have been messing around a bit. I have some moist potassium chloride (Morton's salt substitute) that was measuring around 0.8v earlier when using aluminum and carbon rod.
Seems like carbon rod would work really well since it doesn't corrode and conducts like mad. Also, the carbon rod was giving me higher voltage readings than using copper instead.
@ Anyone: How much of a voltage drop is typical on a 'salt battery' cell when it dries out? I'm guessing you lose at least half...?
Cheers!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 07, 2012, 07:06:26 PM
I found outday that Lo-Salt(another salt sub) is slightly radioactive.It emits alpha particles.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 07, 2012, 07:07:08 PM
Hi I found out something else.This is a list of stuff with high radioactivity,normal everyday stuff.Includes a salt sub called LO-SALT which emits alpha.



  #1 (http://www.highdefforum.com/982132-post1.html)dahur (http://www.highdefforum.com/members/dahur.html)[/color]
High Definition is the definition of life.
 


Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Alamogordo, NM
Age: 58
Posts: 370
Everyday stuff that's radioactive


Since looking for things radioactive is a hobby, I thought some of you may like to know of some things around the house that are radioactive.

Common smoke detectors use Americium-241. It measures in the "millionths" of a REM, and emits Alpha and Gamma. Don't worry about the AM 241 going stable on you, it has a half life of 432.2 years.
Also Lo salt, the salt alternative, which is Potassium Chloride emits Alpha radiaton. Bananas.
Brazil nuts, and cat litter are known low level radiation sources.
Background radiation here in southern NM is 44 CPM. (which is normal)
My granite landscaping rocks (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001553ZPG/) are 100-120 CPM. 2x or3x background.
Speaking of granite, maybe you should check those granite countertops. A small percentage put out substantial radioactivity.

Many of us radiation hobbyists, take our counters to garage sales, and antique shops. The old compass's, watches, and clocks, often have radium painted on. This is dangerous stuff, if you inhale, or ingest it. Old glassware, usually with a greenish tint, has uranium oxide, and is very measurable.
The Fiesta Ware from the 40's through the 60's. That beautiful orangeish-reddish that was their most popular color? They used uranium oxide to get that color, and that stuff is pretty hot.
Here is a YouTube of my measuring my Fiesta-Ware saucer from era 1959-1969.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNRUR2cXLw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkNRUR2cXLw)
The FDA says it's okay to eat off of, but don't store food on any of it. Yeah, okay. It's not even kept in the house.
45,000 to 48,000 CPM. Very active.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 07, 2012, 07:21:52 PM
Now thats really something!Lo-Salt which I did not use is radioactive(slightly).I completed my four new cells,tin can lid/mg and now they are drying.Another 24 hours I guess I will check their voltages.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 01:27:20 AM
Hi PhiChaser,I think the cells lose a third of their voltage as they dry.Then when a load is placed on them they go down even further.My cells are not finished as everything with me is a work in progress.I hope to find a good combination that works decent for me so I can easily make them from now on.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 01:31:14 AM
My first panel and second panel taught me lessons that are helping me make my third panel of four cells.This third panel I hope to fit inside a glass jar and power a LED with the energy.This will be used by me for displaying to different people that these cells work.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 01:43:26 AM
PC, none of my first cells worked due to using the wrong salt sub(NU-SALT).This salt sub had no fumaric acid in it.Now Morton salt sub does!
Maybe elmers school glue would work if the right salt sub was used.But wait!I do recall IB2 saying that the elmers school glue will not work and hes been using the right salt sub all along.So lets go with that and not use it anymore.Maybe normal table salt with added FUMARIC ACID  might work?I would have to get some pure fumaric acid powder from somewhere to experiment with.I have not used carbon yet in my experiments So I cant say anything about it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 08, 2012, 01:46:14 AM
@triffid


Its funny you mention radioactivity. I got the idea to use salt sub because it contain potassium which was radioactive, I was trying to make a beta battery and not a crystal cell. 









@Phi


If the cell is made correct the crystal glue cell will hold it voltage above 1.300 volts when it dries out but it will have little to no amps. If the cell is not made correctly it will loose voltage over time as it dries out. I some cells that are over 8 months hold and still hold above 1.300 volts and no water is ever added to them. So yes a crystal glue cell will maintain its voltage even when dry.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 08, 2012, 01:53:43 AM
PC, none of my first cells worked due to using the wrong salt sub(NU-SALT).This salt sub had no fumaric acid in it.Now Morton salt sub does!
Maybe elmers school glue would work if the right salt sub was used.But wait!I do recall IB2 saying that the elmers school glue will not work and hes been using the right salt sub all along.So lets go with that and not use it anymore.Maybe normal table salt with added FUMARIC ACID  might work?I would have to get some pure fumaric acid powder from somewhere to experiment with.I have not used carbon yet in my experiments So I cant say anything about it.triffid


no no no, normal table salt is bad. very bad! If any salt substitute contains sodium in it then don't use it, sodium is bad.  Morton's salt sub works the best. I have made cells using table salt and they don't work, when they dry out they loose all their voltage.


The only thing special about Elmer's glue is that it contains water. The water allows the salt substitute and Epsom salt to dissolve into a new salt. The new salt is what you want. I tell people to use Elmer's glue because once it dries it act like a barrier to keep water out.  You must do exact as i say if you want to make a crystal glue cell. Use Elmer's glue-all, morton's salt substitute, and Epsom salt. Insert magnesium ribbon and copper wire into it and allow to dry over night.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 01:54:54 AM
IB2,Maybe you can still make that beta cell? Using  Fiesta-Ware saucers getting 50,000 counts per minute?


PC, I have a problem with the cells that need mixing so I'm going towards a no mixing approach.
My tin can lid/mg cells required no mixing.Just one layer at a time.




Have a great day  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 08, 2012, 05:21:12 AM
Thanks for the tips guys!
I got home tonight and measured my moist salt substitute aluminum carbon and was at about a volt. Pretty cool, then I decided to try and add some voltage via 6v batteries. Wow!!! Amazing you can add voltage to potassium chloride and water. Unfortunately, this makes chlorine gas right? My little plastic cup smelled like a swimming pool but I measured a bit over 2.75v which dropped steadily as I measured on the 20v scale. It goes down slower on the 2000m scale (due to cells discharging into the smaller resistors I'm guessing?).
Since Plengo is working on copper-magnesium batteries, I think I will start with carbon (which doesn't break down I think?) and aluminum because it is cheap and easily machineable, obtainable, whatever...
Epsom salt and potassium chloride (and fumeric acid?) seem the like main ingredients to work around (so far right?) for the electrolyte. What about adding a little borax? Alum? I'm thinking if you add carbon then you 'ground out' when using carbon for one of the electrodes. A LOT of combinations to try but it shouldn't take forever to figure out what is going to work better for a 'one mix' cell. I will try to start with around two dozen (20ish) and see where it goes, space/money/time permitting of course...

My experiments to be evaluated in identical multiple small plastic containers;
Each dated container will contain the same measured length of carbon and aluminum 'imbedded' into each 'mixture' and made accessable to alligator clips for measurements.
A measured portion of the aforementioned ingredients in different combinations will all be moistened with the same amout of water and allowed to 'dry'. (Measurements taken at the creation of the cell of course!)
One mix, measure lightly, repeat as necessary...
During the drying period I will take regular measurements (hopefully heh heh) of these test mixtures and record these measurements in a log.
After a certain time period (as yet to be determined) I will evaluate my results and persue the most logical 'recipe' direction(s). I may also try some other ingredients (as yet to be determined).
I think that degradation of the aluminum and outgassing will be the most important factors to look at (after voltage/amperage that is).
You get the idea. Not sure how much I will actually accomplish, but making small cells and connecting them in series with capacitors to hold the charge WORKS!!! That means you pay for it ONCE and then it is FREE!!!
Is there a limit to how small you can make a cell? Realistically, how many crystals (of what size?) are really needed to get the maximum voltage from each cell? If only one 'crystal' structure is needed per 'volt' (so-to-speak) then you could make a 'bed' of tiny cells and grow them!!!! WOOT!!! How cool would that be?!?
SOOOOO many questions (possibilities)!!
I also really like the idea of impregnating cardboard with different 'salts' and layering them with what amounts to garbage (tin can lids) triffid. That is really taking the term recycle to the next level. REALLY a mind-blowing thing (to me anyways!).
I will try out some of my better 'recipe' combinations with the Elmer's Glue All (great idea there BTW!) as well as some other epoxys etc. eventually... Nice to see immediate results from adding water, even if they lose power as they dry out. It rains a bit where I live, and the relative humidity doesn't ever get below 10% (maybe) so these kinds of batteries would work pretty well (I'm guessing anyways...).
Fun stuff! Science is neat!!! Gonna read a bit about 'loading' up these things. Pretty amazing...
Will share results here as this 'project' progresses. ;)
PC
P.S. Any input regarding addition/improvement to my particular 'scientific method' is welcome, thanks!
P.P.S. Wow, I type way too much... Time to go do something productive heh heh...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 08, 2012, 12:47:56 PM
Thanks for the tips guys!
I got home tonight and measured my moist salt substitute aluminum carbon and was at about a volt. Pretty cool, then I decided to try and add some voltage via 6v batteries. Wow!!! Amazing you can add voltage to potassium chloride and water. Unfortunately, this makes chlorine gas right? My little plastic cup smelled like a swimming pool but I measured a bit over 2.75v which dropped steadily as I measured on the 20v scale. It goes down slower on the 2000m scale (due to cells discharging into the smaller resistors I'm guessing?).
Since Plengo is working on copper-magnesium batteries, I think I will start with carbon (which doesn't break down I think?) and aluminum because it is cheap and easily machineable, obtainable, whatever...
Epsom salt and potassium chloride (and fumeric acid?) seem the like main ingredients to work around (so far right?) for the electrolyte. What about adding a little borax? Alum? I'm thinking if you add carbon then you 'ground out' when using carbon for one of the electrodes. A LOT of combinations to try but it shouldn't take forever to figure out what is going to work better for a 'one mix' cell. I will try to start with around two dozen (20ish) and see where it goes, space/money/time permitting of course...

My experiments to be evaluated in identical multiple small plastic containers;
Each dated container will contain the same measured length of carbon and aluminum 'imbedded' into each 'mixture' and made accessable to alligator clips for measurements.
A measured portion of the aforementioned ingredients in different combinations will all be moistened with the same amout of water and allowed to 'dry'. (Measurements taken at the creation of the cell of course!)
One mix, measure lightly, repeat as necessary...
During the drying period I will take regular measurements (hopefully heh heh) of these test mixtures and record these measurements in a log.
After a certain time period (as yet to be determined) I will evaluate my results and persue the most logical 'recipe' direction(s). I may also try some other ingredients (as yet to be determined).
I think that degradation of the aluminum and outgassing will be the most important factors to look at (after voltage/amperage that is).
You get the idea. Not sure how much I will actually accomplish, but making small cells and connecting them in series with capacitors to hold the charge WORKS!!! That means you pay for it ONCE and then it is FREE!!!
Is there a limit to how small you can make a cell? Realistically, how many crystals (of what size?) are really needed to get the maximum voltage from each cell? If only one 'crystal' structure is needed per 'volt' (so-to-speak) then you could make a 'bed' of tiny cells and grow them!!!! WOOT!!! How cool would that be?!?
SOOOOO many questions (possibilities)!!
I also really like the idea of impregnating cardboard with different 'salts' and layering them with what amounts to garbage (tin can lids) triffid. That is really taking the term recycle to the next level. REALLY a mind-blowing thing (to me anyways!).
I will try out some of my better 'recipe' combinations with the Elmer's Glue All (great idea there BTW!) as well as some other epoxys etc. eventually... Nice to see immediate results from adding water, even if they lose power as they dry out. It rains a bit where I live, and the relative humidity doesn't ever get below 10% (maybe) so these kinds of batteries would work pretty well (I'm guessing anyways...).
Fun stuff! Science is neat!!! Gonna read a bit about 'loading' up these things. Pretty amazing...
Will share results here as this 'project' progresses. ;)
PC
P.S. Any input regarding addition/improvement to my particular 'scientific method' is welcome, thanks!
P.P.S. Wow, I type way too much... Time to go do something productive heh heh...




Phi there is many types of crystal cell that have been made. I made one called the crystal glue cell that uses Elmer's glue, salt substitute and Epsom salt. I also made a stove top cell which contains Borax, Alum, Salt substitute. And I also just created a pressure crystal cell that uses only salt substitute. Some people use ZnO. John Bedini uses sodium silicate and alum for some cell. a lot of types of cells exist. You can do a YouTube search and find just about any cell ever made. We have wet cell, dry cells and semi-dry cells.


Also yes you were making chlorine gas.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 08, 2012, 03:37:01 PM
Thanks IB,
I know there are lots of different cells out there which is why I would like to start in the carbon aluminum direction... We know Mg Cu works, and Plengo has shown that borax can treat the MG so it doesn't corrode like untreated Mg does, so that direction is already well underway. If aluminum works for a battery 'case' then empty soda cans may be able to serve the purpose (lots of ifs there, I know!).
Last night I tried just a glue all and salt sub and had around 0.9volts this morning with carbon and aluminum electrodes.
That was done in a plastic bottle cap but badly mixed so I'm sure a better job would have better results. I was just curious, not really after a test result other than a positive voltage (which I expected).
I'm sure my fiancee is just gonna love seeing all those little cups full of mixtures... :) I need to get one of those big analog reflection style meters to measure stuff with, my VOM is okay but I would like another measuring device (just to confirm readings if anything else). A scope would be nice too heh heh...
Science is fun! Play safe eh?
PC
P.S. The ring crystal battery was really cool IB, so were the little crystals on a stick. Keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 08, 2012, 03:43:29 PM
  It appears that carbon is used in the cells that have shown the highest voltages.  I just wanted to comment that even my aluminum capacitor cans cells which are filled with wood carbon are showing signs of dropping of the original voltages levels.
So, for those using carbon, I would still suggest treating the aluminum, or the magnesium, as well as any copper used. As even totally dry cells are losing their output over time due to possible oxidation of the metals used, or by the contamination of the electrolyte, or both.
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 04:35:11 PM
PC ,if your fiancee ever complains.tell her its not another woman and you are always home at nite.Nick Z,I did have to hook a fourth cell in series to keep the LED burning but I left it on all night.My tin can lid/mg cells produced more voltage when it was raining outside.Less now that its not not raining so greater humdity produced greater voltages.My cells went from .98 volts to 1.03 volts during the rain.And dropped back down  after the rain. I have cells sitting all over this house.I made new ones last night with no cardboard.I really do think some types of cardboard is not good for your cells.I used aluminum pie plates and copper plated zinc disks.I used boric acid,normal table salt with morton salt sub(ie,fumaric acid)and aspirin.I made all three cells with elmers glue-all,mortons salt sub,epson salts and more morton salt sub and added a different substance to each one.This morning 12 hours later each is producing .6 volts.Not bad for table salt that I was told would not work.The fumaric acid is the key here and no cardboard.I dumped about a quarter teaspoon of mortons iodized salt into the cell with the usual sprinkle of morton salt sub.Today that one cell is producing .6 volts 12 hours later.I get the small aluminum pie plates from mrs.Sullivan's 2 pecan pies.I get a box of two from the family dollar store for a dollar.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 04:37:41 PM
IB2,If my normal table salt cell fails I will report it.All in the interest of science.I just had to see for myself.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 04:50:22 PM
I have a good friend in oklahoma whose motto was" take junk and make it work"! When I was training to be a chemist in college we were taught to try to find the cheapest way to do something.I try to use aluminum foil,tin can lids(cant use all of them).The magnesium metal strips I had to buy.The mortons salt sub I had to go 30 miles out of my way to buy that.That made my cells work.So potassium chloride by itself will not work.It takes fumaric acid (most likely about 1 percent)If I had to guess and I am guessing.So maybe two percent fumaric acid will double the power???triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 05:11:23 PM
So I do not confuse anybody the fumaric acid is already inside the morton salt sub.So if you buy the morton salt sub.You are getting the fumaric acid too.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 11:54:41 PM
My table salt cell is still producing .6 volts 24 hours later.So is the cell with asprin in it.The boric acid cell is producing  only .5 volts at this time.So it looks like the boric acid has a slight negative effect at this time.I have the same four cells hooked up in series powering the same LED since last night.These are the tin can lid /mg cells from the second panel I put together.I decided to put my third panel into a box for easy display.Since I think the jar I had picked out is not big enough.I went to radio shack today and bought an assortment of electrolytic capacitors(20) for about $5.00.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 08, 2012, 11:57:38 PM
I plan to see how charging up some small capacitors turn out.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 09, 2012, 03:41:20 PM
Lots of things to test out it sounds like!
I got some epsom salt yesterday (pretty cheap stuff!) and gave it a little water to see what it does. So far not as much voltage as the Morton's salt substitute.
The potassium chloride fumaric acid (salt sub) and water seems like it gives a steady 0.9v, not much water left in it.
I was thinking about making a couple glue batteries only using elmers wood putty instead of glue all. It dries hard and can be shaped easily... Copper wire inside my carbon tubes conducted just as well as the carbon so I'm thinking the Al will be the challenge (but not as challenging as trying to prevent Mg from corroding!)...
I agree Nick, the aluminum needs to be treated somehow. If carbon and aluminum corrode less than Mg and Cu then it seems like a good direction to go. I really like the idea of impregnating paper or cardboard with electrolyte. Maybe it will help the crystal structure somehow? I think porosity might be important here, like paper towels work better than typing paper? Maybe try gauze?
Anyone have any fumaric acid laying around to try and see if you can get higher voltages from potassium chloride?!? Seems logical that it would do 'something' anyways...
The borax mixture I made a little of a few days ago is still VERY wet. Wow, that water softener is insane...
Another one of those 'pinch' or 'dash' type things maybe (like the fumaric acid).
I wonder if fruit acids will work?
Gotta dash, have fun, thanks for the comments!!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 09, 2012, 04:16:14 PM
   Guys:
   Just using junk to make these cells - will not work for long.  As John B mentioned, you have to use the best purest metals, carbon or what ever is used needs to be of good quality, otherwise the cells loses power and you got nothing, or almost nothing.
  I now see that the semiconductor protective layer is really important, but I'm not sold on watering the cells to produce output. At least that is not the direction that I'm taking.
John B has also mentioned that Mg is not affected by oxidation when the protective layer is used, but aluminum is affected, if I understood him correctly.
  I do think that the baked ceramic glass like electrolyte layer looks like it would be the best way to go, and if presure is applied it also may help to increase the output, for whatever reasons.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 04:24:49 PM
Last night I took the biggest capacitor that i had bought in the 20 I bought yesterday.It turned out to be rated 16v2200uf,I found a cell producing about .85 volts and hooked it up in parallel with it(pos to pos and neg to neg).After a few seconds I took the capacitor off and used the voltmeter on it.The capacitor had a small voltage of about 5/1000s volt on it.Convinced I had it hooked up ok I left it on there an hour.
After an hour the capacitor showed a voltage of .75 volts and the cell had dropped down to .48 volts.I unhooked everything.An Hour later I came back and measured the same cell,its voltage had popped back up to.80 volts.So I hooked up the capacitor again and left it on overnight for 6.5 hours.I read it this morning and its voltage was .91 volts(the capacitor).I was able to discharge the capacitor thru an old speaker and get a small burst of static both times.Once again the cell was down to about .5 volts.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 04:32:13 PM
So I got to thinking ,these cells remind me of what they call a seep well.A seep well works by collecting water from a trickle of water coming into it.Once it fills up you might have a lot of water.But use it faster than its coming in and the water level drops again.Leave it alone for a while and the well fills up again with water.




So that said these cells make electricity from zero point but not very well(yet).Once we get a gusher then we will be rolling.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 04:45:58 PM
Pretty much junk is all I ever had to work with.I once needed a 200 mesh screen stainless steel screen and found out a square inch of it was going to cost me about $125.00 per sq in.I went to a garage sale and found more than enough brass screen of the same size for $3.00.Brass was ok for my project so I bought it.And used it.I'm not worried too much if it will last 20 years or not.Will it last me long enough to complete my experiments?I will let the giant corporations worry about the cost of the finest materials and the top grades of steel etc.ButI will use what is at hand.I will use what I have.Or I will never do the project cuz I'm waiting for the money that never comes.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 09, 2012, 04:49:07 PM
  These cells will charge a capacitor or a dead AA battery to their own voltage level, but not to the batteries normal working current levels. As these cells have no current.  So, you can charge a capacitor, but when you connect an led to the same capacitor is will only light for a few seconds, if that.  So, what use is a capacitor or battery that is charged with 0.8 volts (or higher voltages), and no current?  It won't light anything, not even an led.  It won't run an oscillator other that low or blinking led. I don't know how many volts it would take to light an led, with  hardly no current, without the use of an oscillator circuit.  I don't see any useful benifit in blinking or dim leds when the oscillators are used. 
  It is normal that the cells drop to lower voltage levels due to their high impedance when under a load, and also normal that they return to the standing voltage levels once disconnected from the load.  High impedance is the hardest thing to overcome.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 04:58:19 PM
My normal table salt/morton salt sub cell dropped to .5 volts this morning down from .6 volts last night.Mortons iodized salt does not contain fumaric acid.So I figured that if potassium chlorde without it did not work.Then it made sense to me that sodium chloride without fumaric acid would not work.I dumped a lot of sodium chloride into the cell and added the regular amount of morton salt sub(with 1% fumaric acid in it).
So far it seems to be working.I think one could ask Morton Salt company for a sample of the fumaric acid powder that they use.After all the vendor they use for it has to compete with other vendors for their business.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 05:00:14 PM
My LED I hooked up two days ago is still burning.I plan to leave it alone for a week.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 05:09:34 PM



High impedance is the hardest thing to overcome.I disagree Since no water is being used to ionize the potassium chloride Something else has to be used.Like a dry acid in powder form[size=78%]( fumaric acid).[/size]
Tartaric acid and citric acid was also mentioned  in the literature concerning fumaric acid.So we actually have two other dry acids that we can test.


Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 05:16:29 PM
I am not discounting anyones hard work here.I am a degreed chemist (BS) and worked in different labs until I went to interview for a job in a chemistry lab where the guy had no face(cuz he got into an explosion in that same lab).Wanting to keep my good looks and life intact I did not take that job.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
I dont care if one cell can't charge up one normal battery.While a whole string of them could?Once I got usable power I was hooked.I can do electrochemistry with these currents.I can do plating.I can split water into hydrogen and oxygen using only voltage.No current needed!So Im not fased if it can't run a car today.What about the future?What about the new materials and other goodies coming?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 05:38:54 PM
I'm just after the truth and the truth is we need this power source.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 09, 2012, 06:27:43 PM
I have done quite a bit of testing here lately and thought I would cover the topic of water.


Water contains one oxygen and two hydrogen.


 Water is repelled my magnetic forces but attracted to electric forces.


Every living thing needs water to live.


I would like to put forth some terms and what they mean to me.


Water Battery - A water battery is just your normal battery, ie, 12 lead acid, lemon battery, Potato battery, tap water battery, AA, D cell, etc. What all these cells have in common is that they consume one or both electrodes, they also have short lifetimes on them that can be measured in weeks. Water batteries use water as the median and water battery won't give voltage or amps unless water is touching the electrodes.


Crystal Cell/Battery - Does not rely on water to keep the cell alive. Not much is known about this type of battery but they do exist. I try to base my work around this type of cell. My crystal cells don't need water to keep their original voltage, even when dry the cell still holds its original voltage. Due to the crystal cell lattice they have high resistance thus they give low amps. Like I said not much is known about this type of cell and more study will reveal more about it. The goal is to make cells that last for a long time that don't corrode the electrodes. A pressure cell would be apart of this group because no water is needed to get voltage.


Crystal Water Battery - This is a combination of the two batteries mention above. The problem with this cell is that water is included into the mix. I'm sure water could be used in a way to keep the cell from corroding but from all my test its been the water that corrodes the metals electrodes. Just leave a small piece of magnesium in a cup of water and in a few days it will show corrosion and thus proving water corrodes metals. Add salts like Epsom salt to it and it will corrode faster. To combat with the corrosion in the crystal water battery people tend to use bigger electrodes so that the corrosion takes much longer to show up. These type of cells are much like the water battery due to that they don't give a voltage unless water is touching the electrodes. In-order for this type of cell to be of any use is if the water was to be non-water, either by transforming it to a liquid crystal or into a solid.


Conclusion - I've done the testing and I find that its water that corrodes metals. The reason why galvanic action speeds up the corrosion is that water is attracted electricity and thus a higher concentration water builds up around the electrodes thus causing the metals to corrode faster. The main idea is to either stay away from water or make water not itself anymore. If water is present than the electrodes will corrode. If water is not present than the metals won't corrode.


I'm still experimenting and looking for the best ways to use crystal cells.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 09, 2012, 07:43:36 PM
   triffid:
   Although it may seam as high impedance is an easy thing to overcome, yet no one had been able to overcome that yet, especially for any amount of time, like months.
  Even 100 of these cells will not charge a single rechargeable AA to its normal working normal CURRENT levels of 600 to 2700 mA, and fluffy voltage without current is not the same, nor will not work the same. 
  You'll find that the led connected to three or more cells will be very dim after a day or two, if still on at all. That is what high impedance does. Doesn't matter if you disagree, as you will see it for yourself. I'm not inventing this, it is what we have been all fighting against for years now.  It helps to make a proper low draw oscillator circuit, but strong cells are still very important to have in the first place.
  You are not working with only with junk, you are buying Epsom, and the salt substitute, and driving miles to get it.  Not free, nor are they junk. 
  However to make the higher output cells that can produce 1.5 to 2 volts, and 100 to 200 mA or more, with out dropping in voltage (due to impedance or resistance), and that also last for a long time, is not an easy thing to make.
 
   Ib2:
   I am finding that even in a dry cell with no added water, there is still oxidation of the metals, even in a sealed totally dry cell. Where I live next to the ocean most metals will corrode, so we may still need to work with the oxide layers, even with dry non galvanic cells.  I'm seeing that the copper oxide layer does not corrode. Not does it conduct, but ions can pass through it.  There is no way that an untreated metal cell will not corrode in time, as the hydrogen gas and electrolysis that it will produce will oxidize the metals and contaminate the electrolyte. 
  BTW:  the original salt cell that I made using table salt, and also the hot dog cell using the same table salt are both still working, after more than half a year.  Both produce about 0.6 volts, and the hot dog cell still has 20 mA. (down from 50 mA originally).
Although I also don't recommend the use of regular table salt, as it is not the best salt to use for making these salt crystal cells, but it does work and is available anywhere.
   
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 09, 2012, 09:31:17 PM
I agree it was worth it to drive the extra miles to get the proper salt sub and to see voltages develop on my cells.I think it will end up being some very unusal form of inorganic molecule.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 09, 2012, 10:07:33 PM
Great discussion everyone!
I can see both points of view regarding using 'junk' vs. 'pure' materials. If you use better ingredients you get a better battery, that makes perfect sense, but I produce plenty of trash and if there is a way to use that 'somehow' with other DIY tech, why wouldn't I use my 'trash' to power my house?!?
My experiments probably won't go that far, but the reuse/recycle ideas are inspirational triffid!!
@ IB: Thanks for your insight! Great way to break it down, useful information for future projects.
I will probably be ordering some more rigid carbon tube online since it doesn't cost much for a four foot stick and weighs next to nothing. The size I have fits 14awg bare copper snug enough to make an electrical connection (at least they appear to be close to equivalent when I clip the leads to the copper or the carbon tube).
Do carbon and copper react to each other? If not then we have an easy way to get to a copper connection without actually having the copper touch the electrolyte. Would that be way low corrosion?!?
I have some little ceramic capacitors here so I may try out some things with those eventually too.
Short work week for me so off I go to take some measurements and shopping... ;)
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 09, 2012, 11:58:09 PM
  PhiChaser:
  Copper and carbon together will not make a good cell.  Carbon and aluminum, or copper and aluminum will work.  Although magnesium works better than aluminum, if you can find it.  The two different metals or carbon can not touch each other, or they will short out the cell,  and need to have an electrolyte separator. This can just be a wet paper towel, or the salts combo that Ib2 has mentioned.
  The exception to the above is carbon or charcoal, (aquarium activated carbon), as it can be used without an additional electrolyte between the aluminum metal and the carbon. 
  I don't know about carbon tubes, or their use in making these cells, but it may be worth a try.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 10, 2012, 01:01:51 AM
  PhiChaser:
  Copper and carbon together will not make a good cell.  Carbon and aluminum, or copper and aluminum will work.  Although magnesium works better than aluminum, if you can find it.  The two different metals or carbon can not touch each other, or they will short out the cell,  and need to have an electrolyte separator. This can just be a wet paper towel, or the salts combo that Ib2 has mentioned.
  The exception to the above is carbon or charcoal, (aquarium activated carbon), as it can be used without an additional electrolyte between the aluminum metal and the carbon. 
  I don't know about carbon tubes, or their use in making these cells, but it may be worth a try.
I KNOW that Nick! Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly: I already HAVE carbon TUBES which work just fine for electrodes (instead of copper) I can insert the copper wire INTO the carbon tubes for connecting the carbon to other things via the copper (since everything is made to connect to copper, see?)... The copper doesn't touch the electrolyte, just the carbon. I'm wondering whether the Cu will react in some way to the carbon (or vice versa).
Carbon and Aluminum are what I'm using for electrodes. I know Al and Cu try to oxidise when you touch them directly.
I guess my question still remains: Will copper wire corrode in a carbon tube? I'm guessing not much? Seems like a no brainer for getting from carbon to copper electrically without getting your copper oxidized by the electrolyte.
Whatcha think fellas?!?
Larger carbon tubes with aluminum 'cores' might work just as well as aluminum tubes with carbon 'cores', maybe better? Not gonna spend the money on that kind of stuff until I do a lot more testing... Salt sub and a dash of H2O (from several days ago) is still sitting at around 0.9v and discharges a LOT slower than the epsom salt H2O mixture (which starts at a bit over 0.6v and drops fast!).
Might go get a small container of wood putty and see if a wood putty battery will work... Still need to get some alum... Ah well, one thing at a time.
Happy experimenting!!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 10, 2012, 03:03:46 AM
  I think that there will be oxydation between the carbon and the copper wire, if that is your question. At least I have seen it on my dry carbon cells, where the copper wire connects to the carbon, the copper gets oxydized and will need to be cleaned off to work properly. One of the reasons that my dry carbon cells lose power after a while. But, once that copper oxide layer is cleaned off the copper, cells works fine again.  So, maybe keep the copper connection out of the cell to avoid that corrosion.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 10, 2012, 03:25:46 AM
Phi,


The carbon will not corrode when touching copper. Both are not very reactive but the copper might turn green which is not harmful but if the copper turns black than that can lead to bad things. Carbon won't corroding easily in room temperature, you need high heat. I think Gold will corrode faster than carbon would.


Carbon would be a great electrode to use.






@all


Something to keep in mind. In physics nothing can never be created or destroyed, so when your metal is corroding its not being destroyed. Its in fact being converted to something else. Usually Hydrogen is given off and the electrode becomes its oxide of itself, magnesium becomes magnesium oxide. This is something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 10, 2012, 06:07:27 AM
Phi,


The carbon will not corrode when touching copper. Both are not very reactive but the copper might turn green which is not harmful but if the copper turns black than that can lead to bad things. Carbon won't corroding easily in room temperature, you need high heat. I think Gold will corrode faster than carbon would.


Carbon would be a great electrode to use.






@all


Something to keep in mind. In physics nothing can never be created or destroyed, so when your metal is corroding its not being destroyed. Its in fact being converted to something else. Usually Hydrogen is given off and the electrode becomes its oxide of itself, magnesium becomes magnesium oxide. This is something to keep in mind.

Was thinking that pultruded (I think is the term) carbon tubing (or rods) wouldn't corrode too badly in whatever electrolyte they are sitting in. If the copper doesn't react to direct contact with those then that is a good thing.
I got some Elmer's wood putty tonight and made three 'batteries' in plastic bottle lids; Electolyte was just the wood putty on my 'baseline' test... It measured a bit higher than just water so these things will be giving more useful measurements in a week (I hope!)... 1/4 teaspoon of salt sub measured 0.8v and the third had a bit more and hit about 0.75v so really, inconclusive at this point. I tested 0.8v+ from the moist putty right out of the container and using aluminum and carbon as my 'leads' but dropped to 0.5v pretty quickly. Will find out in a few days what the 'dry' cells are putting out... ;)
PC
EDIT: Uploaded a pic of my three wood putty batteries. ;)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 10, 2012, 06:50:38 AM
Just reporting some results.At about 36 hours the morton salt/salt cell sub has dropped to less than 1/10 volt.With pressure it will pop back up to .25 volts.The cell with boric acid is holding at .47 volts.The aspirin cell is holding at .57 volts(recall that its max was .60 volts).Using a pair of pliers I crushed the 325 mg (one whole tablet) into the cell without mixing.Its generic aspirin.$1.00 per bottle of 175 tablets.Maybe from family dollar?My led is still burning but very dimly.I know aspirin has a lot of fillers in it.I need to test the aspirin more.Make more cells with it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 10, 2012, 07:06:52 AM
Has anyone tried dripping wax on these cells?To keep water from them?I know they have been encased in plastic(too much money for me right now).I have seen many candles at garage sales.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 10, 2012, 07:24:33 AM
This man taught me to use whatever is at hand.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Carver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Carver)  There is a story I read about him years ago.That he had been hired to teach chemistry at a black school.There was no equipment and no money for it.So he took the whole class to the dump to pick up bottles and jars.Brought them back to the school to be cleaned up and cut up into useable laboratory equipment.He said to make do with what you have.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 10, 2012, 11:53:10 AM
Has anyone tried dripping wax on these cells?To keep water from them?I know they have been encased in plastic(too much money for me right now).I have seen many candles at garage sales.triffid


Yes I've seen people use Wax to cover their cells, it works great. Marcus Reid does this with his cells.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 10, 2012, 11:57:44 AM
Phi,


I never had much luck with Elmer's wood glue/putty. I've found it best to sue Elmer's Glue-all. Just using Salt sub by itself won't have the cell lasting long, in about a week it will drop off in voltage as the cell dries out. I also like to use folded up paper to place my cells on, not only is it cheap but it helps to wick away the water so the cell dries faster. Your on the right track, next you should try to make a glue cell with only Epsom salt in it. After that make a cell with Elmer's glue all, salt sub, and Epsom salt.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 10, 2012, 03:01:56 PM
I was thinking about wax the other day too...
I know parrafin is used to full up empty spaces around electronic components sometimes.
IB, thanks for the tip about using the paper towel to wick away the extra water.
Triffid has me thinking that reuse/recycle might be the way to go on these 'bottle cap batteries'...

Will try to visit the dollar store for containers sometime this weekend...
Epsom salt will be next, then mixtures, then tests and more experiments, and making a mess of course! ;)
Cheers!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 10, 2012, 09:33:10 PM
At this time the table salt/morton salt sub has pretty much died.I can squeeze it to get 2 or 3/1000ths of a volt.The aspirin cell is holding up at .56 volts down from .6 volts at about 44 hours ago when it was new.I found some junk wire and connected up ten cells from my first panel only to get about .14 volts.A dismal failure to say the least.My cells from the second and the third are doing better but not as well as I had wanted them to.The LED is no longer burning on the second panel but I left it connected in case it comes back on.Our weather is changing so I wanted to see if it comes back on.


I can at least connect my cells in series.Using 6 inch lengths of thin wire from a burned cord from a lamp or something.I wrapped it around the wire and strips of metal and use a piece of black electrical tape to seal it.


triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 10, 2012, 09:39:46 PM
Things I can do?I guess I could make another tin can lid/mg cell and put aspirin in it.These cells I do not mix but layer.I guess I would put the aspirin on top of the epsom salts?I will stay away from egg carton cardboard for now.I do have a plastic egg carton I can make more cells in.Those cells I can try mixing?triffid
Title: You guys have been busy.
Post by: b_rads on February 10, 2012, 11:12:01 PM
Have not checked in for a couple of days and find 2 full pages of posts.  Glad to see the attempt to use recycled materials in your cells.  I can go to the dollar store and purchase 8 AA heavy duty batteries for a dollar.  The use of expensive high quality materials does not really get it for me.  Look around at demolition and remodeling sites for conduit.  This stuff is coated in zinc and that has always produced better than aluminum for me.  The conduit holds up much better than galvanized bolts, nails, washers, etc, for some reason.  I have three water, conduit, copper, cells that have kept a red LED going for over 15 months now.
About recharging batteries:  ni-mh have a horrible efficiency rating, only about 66%.  This is a loss right off the bat.  Ib has explored the use of Caps and I think he is on the right track there.  Do not discount that you can use these cells to recharge each other with the right switching technique.
Keep it simple.  When the materials and reciepe's get too costly and difficult to replicate, nobody wins.
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 11, 2012, 01:44:14 AM
Hi triffid,


What kind of aspirin do you use?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 11, 2012, 02:28:38 AM
Picked up some supplies today at the dollar store and made some 'wood putty' batteries.
Each 'battery' has 4 'cells' so technically each battery is really four batteries... I used weekly pill containers; Each 'day' has four compartments for pills so you get 28 little plastic compartments for a dollar... I cut the edges of an aluminum cup that a tea candle sits in for little strips of Al for one of the conductors. I used little pieces of the pultruded carbon tube for the other one. Pics coming eventually...
I made three mixes with salt sub of different ratios, three of epsom salt of different ratios, one of crushed epsom salt (I swear you can crush a tablespoon into a quarter teaspoon!). That mixture turned out nice and creamy though... ;) Since I was almost out of putty (I knew I should have bought the 32oz size!!) I put together one that was equal parts crushed epsom salt and salt sub both.
Each 'cell' holds about one teaspoon of electrolyte...
Just putting some stuff together... I will be trying to impregnate paper towels sometime this weekend...
Will have to try aspirin as an additive... :)
Oh, almost forgot!!! Got the scoop on the Elmer's wood putty I'm using, check it out:

                                                                     % by weight
        546-93-0 Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3)         5-10
       1317-65-3 *Limestone                                     50-70
       1318-59-8 Chlorite (Mineral Class)                     1-5
      13397-26-7 *Calcite (Ca(CO3))                           1-5
      14808-60-7 *Quartz (SiO2)                              0.1-0.99

Hmmmm.... (EDIT: So it is somewhere between 10-30% water maybe?)
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 11, 2012, 08:13:48 AM
Very generic aspirin its put out by A&S Pharmaceutical Corp,480 Barnum ave.,Bridgeport,Ct 06608  1-866-368-2539


I either bought it at family dollar or walmart for only a dollar per bottle.


I took the evening off from the cells,My LED is not lit.


If the cells have too high a resistance to being added in series,Maybe a capacitor and diode network could be made Where each individual cell
is hooked to a capacitor and a blocking diode so that when the capacitor is discharged it goes to recharge a regular battery and not back into the glue power cell.  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 11, 2012, 03:45:45 PM
Add about ten more hours to the aspirin cell its running at.55 volts.down from a max of .6 volts.I used aluminum pie plate(small) and a red shield brand new (2011) penny(my copper plated zinc disks are brand new pennies).So just call it copper and aluminum that I used.If the aspirin can do its magic for magnesium and copper cells that would be fantasic.triffid




remember I put the whole aspirin in the cell without stirring.Used a pair of pliers to crush it.































0
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 11, 2012, 04:18:07 PM
... the cells have too high a resistance to being added in series,Maybe a capacitor and diode network could be made Where each individual cell
is hooked to a capacitor and a blocking diode so that when the capacitor is discharged it goes to recharge a regular battery and not back into the glue power cell.  triffid

@triffid: The drawback to diodes is they eat 0.7v (yeah, that is a scientific term... ;) ) from your line voltage so maybe a transistor or MOS network of some kind that dump into the capacitors?? I still have yet to make a joule theif circuit (sigh...)...
Funny thing happened yesterday, although I'm sure there is an explanation for it: I looped two cells together and took a measurement. Voltage was way down (I'm guessing current up?), not totally unexpected. I will get back to looking at that, the amps part of my VOM is dead so no way to verify amperage at this time...
These battery 'caps' (not capacitors heh...) start around 0.8 volts and discharge semi-quickly to about half a volt. When I tested them hooked together closed series they were reading something like 0.15v. Both of them seemed to be giving this same voltage reading only when I hooked my meter clips to one battery it read positive 0.15v and the other one, hooked up the SAME WAY (black lead to aluminum, red lead to carbon) gave me NEGATIVE -0.15v.  :o
When I connect the red lead to the aluminum it ALWAYS gives me a negative reading and using the black lead on aluminum always gives positive reading as well. How come it gives a negative reading with the leads reversed with the cells in closed series? Can I get some verification on this? Easy test guys, let me know if you get the same results or why I'm getting these results...
Who can explain this so it makes sense?
My hypothesis is the VOM is getting it's polarity confused; It IS a cheap Greenley DM-20, so I'm leaning that way; OR  there is voltage (current) moving in BOTH directions (AC?!?)... This has implications. Anybody wanna explain?
I will upload some pics over the weekend.
Happy experimenting!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 11, 2012, 05:52:35 PM
PCI ,sometimes these cells reverse polarity although I have not seen that myself.I searched and found some lecture videos on what is happening here.The vidieos were fuzzy but the audio is crystal clear.I will try to repost them here for you.In the next post I do.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 11, 2012, 06:04:25 PM

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Posts: 2436


 

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells (http://www.overunity.com/11653/ibpointless2-crystal-cells/msg309709/#msg309709)
« Reply #254 on: January 13, 2012, 08:13:17 AM »
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Quote (http://www.overunity.com/11653/ibpointless2-crystal-cells/240/post/quote/309709/last_msg/312457/)
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Even though fuzzy the audio is clear the hopes and dreams plus a good explanation of the casimir effect.Also locates the free energy part of the spectrum on the electromagnetic spectrum.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-wzLhzBH3Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-wzLhzBH3Y)  part1/3   triffid




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OQA01sqZ_M&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OQA01sqZ_M&feature=related)  part 2/3




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2VeISnMHY8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2VeISnMHY8&feature=related)  part3/3




Each part is about 15 minutes long and one of them explains why and how these batteries can reverse their voltage and act so crazy in general.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 10:30:05 AM by triffid »
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[/list]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 11, 2012, 06:07:50 PM
Pc,the very first one I believe has the explanation why the voltages can be so crazy.I made two more aspirin cells with mg and copper.One I stirred,the other I did not stir.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 11, 2012, 06:39:58 PM
@ triffid:
Thanks for the links! I will take a look when I have time later today.
If I remember I will try to stop by the dollar store later for some aspirin too. :)
I think it would benefit my grinding/mixing process to find a smooth mortar/pestle set. Also a small scale so that the measurements are more exact. It would be easier to measure/grind a few dry mixes and keep them in containers to use as needed rather than make a mess every time I have a spare bottle cap to play with.
As always, it probably won't be anytime soon.
Trying to make some electrolytic paper too; One paper towel wet, covered one side with epsom salt, flipped over and did the other side with salt sub, let dry overnight. Epsom sure did stick to the cardboard it was sitting on!! Today it was still moist so I put another paper towel on each side and then caged them in a piece of aluminum screen so I could wet all of them without tearing them to pieces. So, got it all wet, pressed it out, took it out of the screen and it still needs to dry a bit more... A spray bottle would have worked better for the second process for sure. Not sure how well it is going to work, will report later when it dries. Also I may shoot some of the 'paper' with vinegar to see what results...
Gotta go, cheers!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 11, 2012, 09:44:36 PM
Here is something similar to what we are trying to do.One of them has been running since 1840.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile)
triffid


 or silver paper smeared with [/size]manganese oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_oxide)[/font][/size] and [/size]honey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey)[/font][/size] might be used[/size]

No crystals mentioned but honey does crystalize at a certain point(age) and honey is thought to be used in their construction.
Zamboni piles have output [/size]potentials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential)[/font][/size] in the [/size]kilovolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilovolt)[/font][/size] range, but current output in the [/size]nanoampere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanoampere)[/font][/size] range. The famous [/size]Oxford Electric Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell)[/font][/size] which has been ringing continuously since [/size]1840 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1840)[/font][/size] is thought to be powered by a pair of Zamboni piles.[/size][3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile#cite_note-2)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 11, 2012, 09:51:17 PM
Molten sulfur was used to encase the piles on the oxford electric bell.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell)

triffid




Probably the most interesting part of the bell is the pair of dry piles. Nobody is certain what they are composed of, but it is known that they have been coated with molten [/size]sulphur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulphur)[/font][/size] to prevent effects from [/size]atmospheric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere)[/font][/size] moisture and it is thought that they may be [/size]Zamboni piles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile)[/font][/size].[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 12, 2012, 03:20:37 AM
11 hours later and my new aspirin cells are 1.34 volts for the mixed cell and 1.38 volts for the layered cell.The older aspirin cell is still at .55 volts.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 12, 2012, 03:26:30 AM
PC ,something you may not have known is that a lot of metal screen has a thin plastic coating on it to protect it against rusting.To get rid of it you can put a lit match to it to see if it burns.If you have a thin plastic coating on your screen it will not be conductive until you burn it off.Good old rusty screen worked ok for me back in the 1990's as electrodes in my copper oxide solar cell experiments.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 12, 2012, 03:40:10 AM
I get a negative reading sometimes with my volt meter if Im putting the red lead on the negative electrode and the black lead on the positive electrode.If that is whats happening no need to worry all voltmeters work like that.Hope I m not confused on what the question was?triffid




red lead is positve
black lead is negative
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 12, 2012, 03:54:37 AM
Good news I guess these cells act as diodes by themselves.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d04syANlP10&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d04syANlP10&feature=related)
according to this guy.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 12, 2012, 04:01:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlOwf6KnkhY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlOwf6KnkhY&feature=related)  joule thief design and explanation of how it works.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 12, 2012, 04:58:44 AM
I get a negative reading sometimes with my volt meter if Im putting the red lead on the negative electrode and the black lead on the positive electrode.If that is whats happening no need to worry all voltmeters work like that.Hope I m not confused on what the question was?triffid
red lead is positve
black lead is negative
I understand, I've done that many times. When two are connected in series (so that they are charging each other?) one tests opposite what it normally does. Try it out for yourself! Connect two similar cells to charge each other (+ to -) and look at each one. Look at each voltage first though, so we can determine which one decides the polarity of the coupling... (If that is the case?) The voltage readings should be pretty low when coupled, at least that is what I got when I measured.
So now we have a capacitor and a what... transistor(?) too?? Hmmm...
I watched some of the videos (the 3 part blurry ones with good sound) and saw the graph about polarity going the other way. Not sure if that is what was happening when I made the test. I will try some tests tomorrow, it has been a busy day. I missed out on the dollar store...
Thanks for the links triffid! Gonna go watch the one you posted on the joule theif circuit and maybe wind a toroid if I don't get too tired heh heh...

Happy experimenting everyone!

PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 12:22:29 AM
I have some results to report
mixed aspirin cell---.14 volts
layered aspirin cell---1.34 volts
oldest aspirin cell now .41 volts down from.55 was .6 tops
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 12:34:09 AM
My mixed cells have never worked for me.So Im not surprised about the .14 volt result its been 36 hours since the cell was made.The layered one is the same age.


I have some really bad news all of my tin can lid/mg cells have dropped in voltage.The oldest ones have dropped from .9 and .8 volt down to .25 volts.The newer ones in the panel 2 and panel 3 are worse off than that.I did seal one copperwire and magnesium strip cell in a plastic container over a month ago.I[size=78%] took it out today and its still reading a volt.Its twin I left out all this time is down to .25 volts.So maybe the changing weather is killing my cells?Maybe sealing every cell with wax or molten sulfur is the way to go?triffid[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 12:42:35 AM
According to the three part lecture when voltages die its because the casimir plates are touching.Maybe heating them up will bring the voltages back up?By moving the plates apart again?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 12:45:26 AM
I have some wax.I will seal my one good cell tomorrow.I need it to dry out for 48 hours.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 13, 2012, 12:52:12 AM
   triffid:
   If you build things using junk, junk it what you get.  Use quality material if you want to get anywhere.  You don't have to recreate the wheel, this has all been done before. Following the advice of what works, will save you some time. 
As mentioned before your leds will all get dim.  This is not as easy as it seams. Impedance is not an easy thing to solve. You can't just connect a bunch of cell together and get what you think you're going to get.  You'll see what I mean in time.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 12:54:15 AM
Right now outside the temp have been below freezing the last week.Inside temps above freezing.I will hang on to these cells a while longer.No tossing out or tearing them up.Not yet!triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 01:07:51 AM
I'll take my chances with junk for now.If wax or molten sulfur works in sealing a battery and making it last I have not lost too much time.The oldest tin can lid/mg cells are about 3 weeks old.You know the sheet metal for tin cans has to pass somebodys standards(US government) to be used in the making of cans for our food.I know their regulations are loose sometimes.I can get sulfur from walmart drug dept,I already have wax.I really want to make panels with these cells so I'm learning what doesn't work?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 13, 2012, 01:10:55 AM
Latest testing...
Wax doesn't work as an electrolyte, at least the mixture I used today didn't give me any readings at all. It might need to be 'charged' while it is melting and forming into whatever it is going to form into... Dunno, it took a while and gave me zeros so: Next! (Keep the tea candle containers in mind though, they are cheap at the dollar store and if we end up covering our cells in wax, that is a good way to go!) For the direction I'm going anyways...
Coating things with wax seems like a winner to me since wax is a natural thing (always a plus!) and candles are easy to come by fairly cheaply. I tried an IB recipe cell today only I used a tea candle 'cup' since they are aluminum; my mixture started 3/4 full of the sub salt, 1/4 epsom salt. I added epsom salt as it cooked down to keep it full... Wow do those epsom salts hold a lot of water! I kept wicking it off with a paper towel... I used my pultruded carbon in the center, it looks like a burnt tea candle... I had to use some wax to hold the carbon in though... Gonna have to find a way to anchor it into the electrolytes better (it is pretty smooth)... Also did a couple batteries with impregnated paper towels, my pultruded carbon tubing and aluminum wire. So far it looks like they want to give me around 0.54v but long term tests are needed naturally. They look like little paper towel rolls with wire wrapped around them but there is over 1/16" thick worth of electrolyte paper towel on the  carbon tube (which is only 1/8" OD and 1/16" thick!). I wrapped them 'dry' with the wire them added water to swell them up... They seem dry buy we will see in a week or two... (Gonna have to upload some pics...)
@ triffid: Anything less than a half volt seems like it wouldn't be worth persuing unless it has a measureable current. Those partial voltages add up though, so don't discount them yet! Bummer your cells dropped so much overnight. Mayber your VOM is low on batteries?
I never did get around to getting that aspirin...
Time to start dinner, cya guys,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 01:51:33 AM
I heated up one tin can lid/mg cell and got my voltage back!!!I put it on the hot plate and turned it on med for a couple of minutes.I left it on long enough to burn my fingers!So its back up to .95 volts,up from .25 volts.Its cool enough to touch.And easily reads .87 volts.So that problem solved.I can recharge my casimir plates with heat.Just a minute or two on the hotplate brought it back!triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 01:58:43 AM
Reading .8 volts a few minutes later.I had it up to over a volt when it was hotter.Will report on it tomorrow also.triffid




Good work PC,lots of action is good.I gonna build a joule thief at some point.
Since diodes eat up .7 volts and these cells act as diodes maybe???The diode action can be stopped somehow?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 02:32:48 AM
I heated up another tin can lid/mg cell and got .75 volts back.Thinking that I could do better I heated up the same cell again (it had been reading.9 volts before it dropped).It appears I burned the cell too much.I get nothing now.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 13, 2012, 02:51:25 AM
@ triffid:
Nice! I've noticed that heat brings the voltage up too. I'd imagine in a low-humidity environment a lot of these cells would perform more consistantly. If it was a hot desert they would probably work even better? Do you know if anyone has tried silica (or even regular) sand in their electrolyte mix?
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 02:54:33 AM
Those two cells I could put on a hotplate the others are in cardboard boxes or on cardboard.Heat drives off water and puts space back between the casimir plates recharging them to run a while longer.Maybe these glue cells work for a little while until the casimir plates come in contact with each other.Then the voltages drop to zero finally.Being in a hot car in the summertime could keep them humming?Just thinking out loud here.It seems like to me that as heat increases these cells become more efficient then the plates are vibrating farther and further apart.Maybe its not electricity that should be pumped into these cells but heat?Maybe the cells should be made in a hotter environment like an oven?Maybe why johns stove top cells work better and longer than glue cells?Glue cells would work better in a hot car in the summertime I bet.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 03:01:06 AM
PC,NickZ has used sand in his cells.I heard today that silica has magnetic properties.I don't know what they are.Now that I know whats wrong with my cells now maybe I can redesign them?too bad I burned up the cell,it even turned brown on me.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 04:59:20 AM

Casimir Force pushes 2 metal plates together.
Finally proven in 2003 to within 5% of values predicted by Casimir back in 1948.
the spacing between plates must be on the order of 2 nm or less. this restricts the larger virtual particles AKA vacumn flucuations from squeezing between the plates. the outside of the plates are still populated by virtual particles both big and small (normal space), This creates a difference in pressure that pulls the plates together.
My theory is that the "abnormal space" between the plates thins out the miniscus of the virtual particle sea by a factor proportional to how close the plates are braced. an electron is free to twist partially out of the normal space by the low density of the miniscus on either side of it. these membranes represent past and future direction and will soon be traveled just like regular space using hydrinos or any molecules that twist then get locked by forming covalent bonds while twisted.
The Casimir effect

In 1948 Hendrik B G Casimir of the Philips Research Laboratories in the Netherlands, proposed an experiment to measure what has become known as the Casimir effect.
Based on the idea that the 'vacuum' of space is actually a seething foam of quantum fluctuations of different frequencies, Casimir proposed that if two electrically conducting, but uncharged parallel plates were mounted a small distance apart in a vacuum, they would tend to be drawn together. An important point is that the plates carry no electrical charge so that any interaction between the plates must come from some other source.
(http://www.byzipp.com/casimirtoroidino2.jpg)


Only toroidinos of a certain size (wave length) can exist between the plates. The formation of toroidinos outside the plates is unrestricted, resulting in a net force that pushes the plates together. This is the Casimir effect.

Assuming that the plates are completely surrounded by quantum fluctuations, we can see from the drawing that the fluctuations between the plates will be restricted to those that will fit between the plates, whereas outside the plates they will be unrestricted. This means that there will be a greater variety and therefore more fluctuations outside the plates than between them, resulting in a net force that will tend to push the plates together.
Casimir predicted the value of this force and in 1996 Steve K Lamoreaux, then at Washington University, measured the force to within an accuracy of five per cent of Casimir's prediction for that configuration of plate separation and geometry.
Over the range measured the force is directly proportional to the area of the plates and inversely proportional to the fourth power of their separation.
As far as I know only a very limited number of experiments have been carried out over a very limited range of plate separations, so it is only possible to conclude that the force is inversely proportional to the fourth power of the plate separation for a very limited range of separations. It may be possible to show that, depending on the shape of the quantum fluctuation, the force may appear to be proportional to the inverse fourth power of the separation at one distance but proportional to some other ratio at a greater or smaller distance.

Whatever the magnitude of the Casimir effect, its very existence indicates that the 19th-century idea of the classical vacuum is fundamentally wrong.
Link to Scientific American article.
DEMONSTRATION OF THE CASIMIR FORCE IN THE 0.6 TO 6 µM RANGE. S. K. Lamoreaux in Physical Review Letters, Vol. 78, No. 1, pages 5--8; January 6, 1997.
Large scale Casimir effects
In the 8 June 1996 issue of New Scientist magazine an article entitled Physics unpicks a sailor's yarn, by Paul Guinnessy, reported on the phenomena noticed in the days of the square rigged sailing ships that, under certain sea conditions, ships lying close together would be mysteriously drawn together until there was a danger of their riggings clashing.
(http://www.byzipp.com/sailingship.jpg)
Dutch physicist, Sipko Boersma found that a rolling ship absorbs power from the waves and re-emits it as secondary waves from its hull. If the secondary waves radiated by two ships are out of phase they will cancel, reducing the wave energy between the ships. This is similar to the reduction in radiation energy between atoms or the plates used to measure the Casimir effect. The result is that the ships will be pushed together by the outside wave energy.
Only conditions of practically no wind but with waves on the sea would result in the phenomenon occurring and then the force was so small that the ships could be pulled out of danger by rowing boats.

I had first hand experience of this in 1998, while waiting for our start in the sailing regatta for the New South Wales Hood championships on Sydney Harbour. We had conditions of no wind but a lot of waves caused by everything from power boat and ferry wakes to waves made by arriving and departing float planes. Much to the mirth of the rest of the crew, I made the prediction that, because of the conditions and the Casimir effect, the waiting boats would drift together. Within minutes that's exactly what had happened and we had to continually fend off from boats that literally drifted together into clusters. A firm push was enough to separate the boats but we'd soon drift into another cluster.
So it seems that the Casimir effect applies at levels from sub-nuclear to at least the human scale. I believe that future experiments will show that the Casimir effect operates at all levels from sub-nuclear to cosmological scales.
[/font]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 13, 2012, 05:05:14 AM
@ triffid:
The best crystals are made under high heat and pressure.
Pressure is something we can do ourselves with a press like John B. did with Cu, Mg, and the Morton's salt substitue.
Pressure CAUSES heat so maybe if we can press the layers (like you're doing) or wind the wire tighter, or pack the putty tighter, or whatever it is I'm doing... You get the idea.
Now for the heat; Maybe get the mixture of salt sub and epsom salt hot enough to break the H2O loose and press it out? What do you think?
Also, if we were doing this on a larger level a lot of our outgassing would be just hydrogen and oxygen right?
The wax might be worth trying again if the crystal saturation is high enough. By that I mean adding the salts (and powdered aluminum maybe?) into the melted wax until the wax is as removed as I can get it... I'm still not convinced that wax can't work..
Fun stuff! ;)
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 13, 2012, 05:05:57 AM
   Sometimes it's hard to know what works until you try it.  But like I said, many of these tests have been done before, and its best to try something that has been shown to work, and take it from there. Or you may find that you are not getting anywhere. 
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 13, 2012, 05:12:57 AM
@ triffid:
Long skinny post! Heh heh...
I liked it though.
Cheers!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 05:21:16 AM
Here is something a little different a repulsive casimir force  silica might keep the plates open longer?   http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/01/repulsive-casimir-force-casimir.html (http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/01/repulsive-casimir-force-casimir.html)






The scientists replaced one of the two metallic surfaces immersed in a fluid with one made of silica, the force between them switched from attractive to repulsive. So we add a form of silica to our glue cells?[/color][/font][/size][/i]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 05:35:17 AM
Heres some food grade silica   http://www.liquidvitaminsleader.com/targeted-nutrition/silica-micro-plant-powder.html (http://www.liquidvitaminsleader.com/targeted-nutrition/silica-micro-plant-powder.html)


health store.






Maybe aspirin has silica in it?I dont know.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 13, 2012, 06:07:53 AM
Was thinking of trying some Durham's Water Putty next (instead of Elmer's wood putty). Check out the website... Gonna go find out what is in it. I like that it comes in a powder form (easy to mix with salts/silica/whatever), is relatively cheap, and supposedly dries 'rock hard'. Exactly what we want when the electrolyte is dry, right? Might mix with glue all as well??
PC

http://waterputty.com/
EDIT: That silica link said that it contains an acid. Might want to look into that at some point...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 13, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Keep up the good work guys. These cells are fun to make. I'm still working on some myself and will post more.  http://youtu.be/6jrjZqPldjw



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 04:40:50 PM
I read the cell I recharged last and didn't burn up.It reads .45 volts at the highest and wants to jump around.
My aspirin cell read 1.35 volts and after sealing with the hot wax and letting the wax harden .it read 1.39 volts.
I made five more cells in the same plastic one dozen egg  carton.So in about three days I will have 6 cells to play with that are sealed with wax.




Im using a plastic egg carton this time to avoid leaching chemicals out of the cardboard that might have interfered with my cells in the first panel I made using a 30 count egg cardboard flat(carton).triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 13, 2012, 05:14:23 PM
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=X8wk8a_-D1A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=X8wk8a_-D1A)   some serious lighting!  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 12:58:35 AM
A few inches of snow has hit where I live.I did make it out to Walmart this morning.I saw a bottle of their cheap aspirin.Silicon dioxide was in the top five of their inert ingredients.Equate is their store brand but I did not use it 81 mg coated but I used a different brand altogether.
Their other aspirin did not have silicon dioxide in them.




I do not believe it I was looking at the label again and it says peel here for more information.So I peeled the label from the bottle and the only other ingredient is starch.So its starch that seems to keep the power up on these glue cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 04:09:29 AM
Starch becomes soluble in water when heated. The granules swell and burst, the semi-crystalline structure is lost and the smaller amylose molecules start leaching out of the granule, forming a network that holds water and increasing the mixture's [/size]viscosity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity)[/font][/size]. This process is called [/size]starch gelatinization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starch_gelatinization)[/font][/size]. During cooking the starch becomes a paste and increases further in viscosity. During cooling or prolonged storage of the paste, the semi-crystalline structure partially recovers and the starch paste thickens, expelling water. This is mainly caused by the [/size]retrogradation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrogradation_(starch))[/font][/size] of the amylose. This process is responsible for the hardening of bread or [/size]staling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staling)[/font][/size], and for the water layer on top of a starch gel ([/size]syneresis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syneresis_(chemistry))[/font][/size]).[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 04:16:01 AM
So I am not cooking it and this says it holds water longer.Hence the longer voltage time.I did find something with silica in it.I know grass has silica in it.Just plain lawn grass is what I'm talking about.Silica moves the casimir plates apart due to something they are now calling dark energy.So dark energy could be used to make the casimir plates stay apart for longer periods of time.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 04:21:08 AM
Something useful to make for your rock battery.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFpzkyP6DCU&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFpzkyP6DCU&feature=relmfu)
triffid




Another light circuit to power some thing other than an led.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAakZTR_4LE&feature=fvwp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAakZTR_4LE&feature=fvwp)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 14, 2012, 04:38:39 AM
Hey all,

Picked up some Durham's tonight and tried a couple mixtures with the salt sub. The 'water putty' has a few things that I think will (hopefully) make it better than the Elmer's wood putty:
1.) It is a dry powder so it mixes easily with other dry materials
2.) The main ingredient is gypsum which is very crystalline
3.) It is supposed to dry 'rock hard'
Now from what I've been seeing on the wood putty; Expectedly if I compress the electrolyte I get a higher voltage. Conclusion: The closer the crystals are together, (or the less empty space, whatever...) the better the voltage. I'm pretty sure I could get some moderate voltage by using a press on the elmer's like John B. did with just the salt sub... Same salt sub, a slightly different medium, probably lower voltage but who knows...
The Durham's said it will expand while it dries a little bit and that it will want to absorb water if you don't seal it so when these early tests dry out as much as they are likely too I will seal them in wax (probably...). Will keep you posted on those... The couple I did should be pretty dry tomorrow (so the package claims, but they don't have potassium chloride in their mix either!). :)
I finally took a pic tonight of some of my 'tests'. Plastic bottle lids work really well for little cells!
Gonna go check out IBs latest vid.
Happy experimenting!
PC

EDIT: My smallest 'cell' yet is sitting in the bottom blue tray. Can't wait to see what it measures tomorrow...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 14, 2012, 04:46:20 AM
Keep up the good work guys. These cells are fun to make. I'm still working on some myself and will post more.  http://youtu.be/6jrjZqPldjw
@ IB:
Heh heh, man, I was looking at some of that petroleum jelly yesterday and thinking of trying something very similar, no kidding!!! You beat me too it... Nice!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 02:57:59 PM
Good work PC,keep up the momentum.Today I will make my cell with silica in it.I wont be using the mineral silica but an orgainic food grade form of it.I may have found a new acid too to help the fumaric acid.So Im hoping for greater power level(more volts)At some point I want to do a grass cell.But I have to think more about it.24 more hours to sealing up with wax the 5 new cells I made yesterday.






Starch(in the aspirin) keeps my newer cells up in voltage longer but only  because starch releases the water more slowly.So a longer retention of water is the only reason my cells work better with this brand of aspirin in them.What I think I want is silica to keep the casimir plates apart longer than before.


So a month later after the cells are made they don't drop to nothing voltage wise.


have a good day everyone,we had snow so im staying home today!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 03:02:52 PM
I will be using a vitamin c tablet(1000mg) that has silica in it.triffid


also contains ascorbic acid.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 14, 2012, 03:30:38 PM
Starch(in the aspirin) keeps my newer cells up in voltage longer but only  because starch releases the water more slowly.

Pretty much the same reason Borax works I think triffid. The water evaporates so slow out of that stuff I'm not sure it will ever actually dry out; it makes it so the crystals have a longer time to 'connect' to the other crystals around it (I'm thinking). Eventually I will get Borax into the mixes too...
Tonight I will do some more mixes with Durham's and Epsom salt (last night I did a couple with salt sub)
So far the rock putty seems like it gets harder than the wood putty (yay!!), even after drying just 12 hours. The voltage levels measured like they will be higher too. Too early to tell but it is looking GOOD! It is more messy than Elmer's wood putty and dries faster, but I think it is a little cheaper AND you can buy it in 25,50, and 100 gallon containers (yeah, no kidding!!!). Not gonna go off the deep end, but it is a good thing to know that one of the bases for my electrolyte may be easily available in large quantities. Epsom salt is the same way, so we're halfway there!! (Ha ha ha, joke...)
Need to find a way to press the electrolyte around the cathode and use aluminum tubing as a sleeve I think (for best results?)... Still a ways off from that but it looks like one way to go for a sturdy homemade battery maybe. Just mix, stir, dry, and use is what I'm really after... Good luck to us all with that!! ;)
The Durham's container says you can add a little vinegar or milk (?!) to slow down the setting process so maybe I will try using the vinegar (5% mix) instead of mater maybe? I will also try the epsom salt putty and epsom salt/subsalt mix... Still need alum. And aspirin. Probably more subsalt eventually (although I would like to get away from that and figure out a cheaper way with similar or better results).
Happy experimenting all, and keep up the momentum guys!
Will post some readings tonight too if I have some extra time...
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 06:31:07 PM
PC,that vineagar might change the PH someway,somehow but experiment away anyway.I made the vitamin C cell today.I will check voltages after its dried about 12 hours.This cell I layered and did not mix.Edison did not like book learning.He liked to put stuff in and see what happened,hence a thousand ways to fail.Tesla liked to put some thought into it first.I know we don't want to retain water but the starch might have its uses anyway.I want to use silica in these cells as it may provide a repulsive force to keep the casimir plates apart.




Just an observation here so far,I have noticed that higher temps increase the voltage.Even at a decent clip.So are we making the casimir plates too close together to begin with?What if we could double or even triple the distance between the plates to begin with?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 14, 2012, 06:38:48 PM
PC ,milk is casein (a form of glue) and vineagar and milk make buttermilk.Acetic acid in the vineagar could change your PH which means different reactions could occur that you had not planned on.But experiment away.Have fun.The snow here is melting so drip,drip,drip is what I'm hearing here now.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 15, 2012, 01:20:06 AM
I checked the voltage of my new vitamin c cell and got 1.45 volts.I checked the cell I sealed up with wax yesterday and got 1.37 volts.
The five other cells Im sealing up tomorrow are 1.3 to 1.37volts.After waxing tomorrow they shpuld be  1.39 volts each from the hot wax.
Then I will be connecting them up in series.Lite another LED.


If vitamin(asorbic acid) c increases the power of a cell then maybe it decreases the resistance(impedence) of a cell?




Making them easlier to hook up in series?Also I used no cardboard this time too.All plastic egg cartons.Hot wax did not hurt it.


I will have 8 volts to play with I hope tomorrow.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 15, 2012, 06:04:23 AM
I checked the voltage of my new vitamin c cell and got 1.45 volts.I checked the cell I sealed up with wax yesterday and got 1.37 volts.
The five other cells Im sealing up tomorrow are 1.3 to 1.37volts.After waxing tomorrow they shpuld be  1.39 volts each from the hot wax.
Then I will be connecting them up in series.Lite another LED.
If vitamin(asorbic acid) c increases the power of a cell then maybe it decreases the resistance(impedence) of a cell?
Making them easlier to hook up in series?Also I used no cardboard this time too.All plastic egg cartons.Hot wax did not hurt it.
I will have 8 volts to play with I hope tomorrow.triffid

@ triffid:
Nice! I made some more cells tonight with the Durham's and I have to say, so far the water putty is WAY better than the Elmer's wood putty. It sets faster, gets harder, and having a dry mix to work with is the way to go for precise measurements. How much water is really in the premixed wood putty? Not enough control...
I have my little itty bitty cell hooked up to my VOM and it has been at 0.56v for quite a while. It started at over .7 but quit falling and stopped at 0.56v after a few minutes so I will leave it hooked up overnight and see if it goes down at all...
Epsom salt seems to make the mixtures really creamy and they have more working time than them salt sub. Putting both together set the putty off really quick! Something going on there but the meter will tell if that is a good thing or not (I'm guessing not, but you never know). The Elmer's is just too powdery after it dries and the Durham's with the same type of 'mix' seems to be holding together a LOT better... Time tests say all however.
Still have to get some aspirin and dig out the petro jelly...
Happy experimenting guys!
PC
P.S. The itty bitty cell dropped to .55 while typing this ;)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 15, 2012, 04:54:58 PM
My vitamin c cell is still at 1.45 volts about 12 hours after being made.
I sealed the five other cells and found out it is possible to get the wax too hot and melt a hole in the plastic egg carton.I was lucky I did not get burned.The hot wax spilled away from me.
I hooked up all six cells together.
3 cells got me 4.1 volts and .89 milliamps
4 cells got me 5.45 voltd,did not take amp reading
5 zero readings
6 zero readings


I checked 5 and 6 for connection problems  but other than me using thin wire they seemed ok.


So I grabbed some LEDS and got them lit on three cells hooked up in series.
 I put the leads from three cells hooked up in series to my tongue and got a good bite from it.I then measured for amps.
A regular battery would put out about 800 milliamps on up.So .89 milliamps is about 800 times weaker than that. triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 15, 2012, 05:06:38 PM
So trying to put it altogether now.I left three cells hooked up in series lighting up an LED.Hooking up 3 cells together gave me 4.11 volts that was 1.37 volts per cell.four cells in series gave me 5.45 volts that gives me 1.36 volts per cell.I think I may have beat most of the resistance in these cells.Now the resistance is in the wires.I did use copper wires about the size of a human hair(to my eyeball).I do think using cardboard egg cartons allows harmful chemicals to leach up into the crystal mass.First one I can think of could be sodium hydroxide which is a base that neutralizes acid.I used plastic egg cartons this time.Get the wax too hot it will melt.  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 15, 2012, 05:10:18 PM
So these cells are about 800 times weaker than a regular battery maybe 1600 times weaker.So greater mass,better internal connections between crystal and metal electrodes might improve the power more.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 15, 2012, 05:21:12 PM
I think I got encouraging results.I will have to wait a while to see how the new cells do.I unhooked cells 5 and 6 leaving them to themselves.
The new vitamin c cell with silica in it might be the way to go in the future.Use wax not starch to seal them after 48 hours. I used spring valley
vitamin C (1000 mg).Silica was number 5 on the list of ingredients.So I think its the fifth most abundant chemical in the pill.I hope to find something with more silica in it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on February 15, 2012, 08:43:11 PM
Several sites on the internet like this one:
http://www.csun.edu/science/ref/equipment/acquisition/common.htm (http://www.csun.edu/science/ref/equipment/acquisition/common.htm)
can source inexpensive chemicals.
 
Also:
Silica Gel Packets
Silica gel is used as a dessicant and often come in paper packets or plastic cylinders. They are used to absorb moisture with leather, medication, and in some food packaging. Silica is considered "chemically and biologically inert" upon ingestion. However, with ingestion, it is possible to see signs of GI upset, such as nausea, vomiting, and inappetence. Additional problems could occur is the silica gel was used as a dessicant in medication, since silica could possibly absorb qualities of the medication.
 
Wikipedia - Vitamin C: Ascorbic Acid
As a mild reducing agent, ascorbic acid degrades upon exposure to air, converting the oxygen to water. The redox reaction is accelerated by the presence of metal ions and light. It can be oxidized by one electron to a radical state or doubly oxidized to the stable form called dehydroascorbic acid.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 15, 2012, 10:25:35 PM
Thanks B_rads for that great list of materials.I went ahead and made five more vitamin C cells.I did not crush the last vitamin c tablet but left it  intact to see what happens.48 hours from now they all get sealed with wax.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 16, 2012, 04:23:23 AM
Hello everyone,
Some interesting results! I got up this morning and my itty bitty cell was pegged at 0.56v. It dipped to .55 at my last post and was back up at .56 when I looked again! And this morning. And when I got home tonight. :) It sits at .57v now but I'm thinking that is due to it's proximity to the stove (where I just cooked dinner)...  ::)
So, it looks like it is holding fairly steady. I'm gonna unhook it and take some readings of some of my other cells then hook it back up before I call it a night to see if it will stay at .56 all night again. When I first hook it up the cell reads over .7 so I will try and make a point of seeing where it starts at.
I also did a sea salt cell last night with the Durham's, will post later tonight on the 24hr readings.
I am going to have to figure out some sort of storage for my ongoing 'project' so I'm leaning towards one of those 'nuts and bots' holder things since my cells are all pretty small. And I also need a ledger of some kind to keep records in... I figure after a week the readings should be fairly stable?
Will post more on that when I figure it out heh heh...
Got an aluminum tube today but I will probably save that for experiments this weekend.
Of course I had to take my daughter's cat to the vet tonight so new supplies are gonna have to wait... Sigh.
Ah well, life keeps happening... Til later then.
Happy experimenting everyone!
PC

Evening addendum: Ran out of my second bottle of sub salt so I used them as 'cases' for my cells tonight. The mix I did was 1/2 cup epsom salt, 1/2 cup Durham's, and a little water. I used part of the cap/lid so the 1/4" aluminum rod sits in the middle of the electrolyte and the poltruded carbon sits off to the side (where the pour hole is heh heh).
I think that that recipe would work for one container but dry it filled up two containers 3/4 full...
Anyhow, my itty bitty cell is now holding at 0.57 volts. Quite the little workhorse for being around an inch long!
Science is fun! ;) Cheers fellas...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 16, 2012, 08:22:04 AM
Thanks B_rads for that great list of materials.I went ahead and made five more vitamin C cells.I did not crush the last vitamin c tablet but left it  intact to see what happens.48 hours from now they all get sealed with wax.triffid
Now I have to add vitamin c to my list next to aspirin. I hope that either (or both!) work well with the Durham's...  ;)
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 16, 2012, 05:18:43 PM
Pc ,look for silica in that vitamin C too.I used better wire to hook up all six cells and got 7.7 volts watched it dip down to 7.25 volts unhooked for a minute,hooked it back up saw that it had recharged a little back up to 7.5 volts.So much of the resistance seems to be gone in the cells.


These cells ran an LED all night so three of them were tired?  7.25volts/6=1.208 volts per cell. Not bad compared to my first cells


The new vitamin C cells are holding at about 1.4 volts per cell.I seal them up with wax tomorrow.The one I did not crush gave me 1.4 volts also.But I covered everycell with more glue and salt sub.So water did touch the pill.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 17, 2012, 12:18:03 AM
I went ahead and sealed the cells today because I have to run errands tomorrow morning.So 48-12=36 hours these cells had to dry.
I hooked up all six cells with good wire and got 9.0 volts,watched it drop to 8.6 volts.That puts each cell at 1.43333 volts.Looks like the resistance in the cells is gone???Maybe still a little hot.I went to the grocery store today and bought an 18 count plastic egg carton.So I'm thinking the 18 cell magnesium/copper vitamin C panel is next?Now have to wait to see how long these cells last.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 17, 2012, 12:31:58 AM
Great results triffid! Tried a previous mix that seemed promising using just the Durham's, epsom salt, and a little water. Will definitely get some cheap aspirin and vitamin c with silica... Over a volt per cell and holding is awesome!!
My itty bitty cell had dropped to .55v when I got home but it was cold when I picked it up so who knows... Will hook it up overnight maybe. I think that when I completely 'melt' the epsom down into the water the results are better. The mix ends up nice and hard too, so I hope your success will cross over to my aluminum/carbon cells when I DO actually get some aspirin and vitamin c... Hmmm, I probably have something in a cabinet somewhree... Parent teacher conferences tonight, whee.
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 17, 2012, 03:45:02 AM
I went ahead and sealed the cells today because I have to run errands tomorrow morning.So 48-12=36 hours these cells had to dry.
I hooked up all six cells with good wire and got 9.0 volts,watched it drop to 8.6 volts.That puts each cell at 1.43333 volts.Looks like the resistance in the cells is gone???Maybe still a little hot.I went to the grocery store today and bought an 18 count plastic egg carton.So I'm thinking the 18 cell magnesium/copper vitamin C panel is next?Now have to wait to see how long these cells last.triffid


Great Job! not bad power you're getting. I'm curious about the vitamin C. You will always have resistance in the cell, if resistance was zero than you would have no voltage, kind of odd how it works that way.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 17, 2012, 03:54:21 AM
Hi Phi, if you get a chance you should try making Concrete cells. a $4 bag of quickcrete will make thousands of cells and all you need to do is add water to it. The concrete already has some things like sodium silicate in it which helps to protect the cell but you can add Epsom salt to it to make it really tick. The concrete cells are a lot of fun and super cheap and easy to make.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUa1biXpxBc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUa1biXpxBc)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 17, 2012, 04:33:18 AM
 Thanks guys,It sure beats the dismal failures I had before.I have an empty 18 count egg carton now,plastic!I need to observe these two panels for a while.
I hope the presence of silica keeps the casimir plates open more than a month.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 17, 2012, 05:11:20 AM
Hi Phi, if you get a chance you should try making Concrete cells. a $4 bag of quickcrete will make thousands of cells and all you need to do is add water to it. The concrete already has some things like sodium silicate in it which helps to protect the cell but you can add Epsom salt to it to make it really tick. The concrete cells are a lot of fun and super cheap and easy to make.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUa1biXpxBc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUa1biXpxBc)

Hey IB, I've seen that vid before! ;)
My current mix is actually just epsom salt and Durham's (mostly gypsum) and a little water. 
I'm actually 'charging' my two largest cells right now with a 6v 'lantern' battery on each one. I will leave them connected overnight and then take some readings in the morning hopefully (at connection and a few minutes later when they level out) then hook one of them up to the VOM tomorrow before I leave for work.
Note: DON'T try doing this unless you know adding voltage to your mix is safe!!! Salt Sub gives off chlorine gas when electrocuted... Other things could be worse so you've been warned. I'm no chemist...
I only say this because I think my current mix is 'safe' in this regard. At least I think it is...  :o
Itty bitty cell is at 0.57v again; It hit 0.82v when I hooked it up heh heh. Not as cold now I suppose...
Wax or parrafin seems like the best way to seal a cell to me. Bees make honey too! ;)
Happy experimenting!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 17, 2012, 05:12:05 AM
Hey IB,


 I thought you were the one who showed the water crystal discovery? Why is it you are just making the connection that all water in the crystals, like Epsoms salt, is exactly that. Crystalline Water. Oxygen is the catalyst but water, Pure crystalline water is the vehicle!


 The water in the crystals, like epsoms salt, is very highly organized. Not like bulk water. The crystalline structure or real mass of the crystal is the matter, the shell or the the honey comb if you will. It acts much like a sponge and this is where it starts to get interesting.


 I would say you are right about the newer crystalline structures be formed. A very conductive static generator that uses waters ability to be paramagnetic and be repelled by magnetic forces. Well it responds to electrical stimulation the same way. When you push water through a crystalline structure with force what kind of a reaction do you think you are gonna get? If the crystalline water is not evaporated or even oxidated then that water should last forever in the crustal structure. Even if you push that water around It should last forever. But that means using only crystalline water that is already in the epsoms. That will be your biggest donator of crystalline water. Using the alum along with the epsoms was a perfect idea. It gave huge stores of crystalline water for the newly created crystalline structure to use.


 Alum is a beatiful crystal :  [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpfxWkywmuM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpfxWkywmuM)[/size]


This brings up more topics like base verses the 4 sides and the prism like effects they show. The base collects 4 sides of light. Also if the internal structure shows the same properties then the base will have 4 times the amount. Think about how the internal structure of the crystals are working and you will see that it is merely a multiplier of surface charges focused onto the base. When the crystals grow they grow from base to tip. From metal to electrolyte and they grow exponentially, surface area wise.


 Keep going and you will see it.

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 17, 2012, 05:57:25 AM
@ Jbignes5
Thanks for the post! (I keep forgetting to get crystalized alum...)
Do you know if there are any adverse reactions/outgassings when adding voltage directly to alum?
PC
EDIT: So our ultimate 'dry' cell is actually very 'wet' inside the crystalline structure. It looks like alum will work as well or maybe better than epsom salt? Some ideal combination we're after??
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 17, 2012, 06:02:14 AM
I took another reading of the six vitamin C cells hooked up in series and got 7.37 volts and 2.01 milliamps .If I did my calculations correctly it gives me about 14.8 watts of power.So the vitamin C cells have nearly double the power of the aspirin cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 17, 2012, 06:47:16 PM
@ Jbignes5
Thanks for the post! (I keep forgetting to get crystalized alum...)
Do you know if there are any adverse reactions/outgassings when adding voltage directly to alum?
PC
EDIT: So our ultimate 'dry' cell is actually very 'wet' inside the crystalline structure. It looks like alum will work as well or maybe better than epsom salt? Some ideal combination we're after??




You are welcome about the post. It's just my understanding as I know it.


 You are very correct about the cells structure. In fact if you look that the abilities of crystals one would know that water was at the heart of it. Not regular water but highly organized water that can channel vast amounts of real charges through the device. All crystalline water is, is water without very much impurities. What water truely is! Crystalline in form and structure. When oxygen and other impurities get involved then you have a problem of over saturation and a reduced cap[ability to conduct.


 The process is simple really. mix the crystals add you dopants and heat to melt the structure of the crystals and walla new crystal formations. These new formations are network based and the epsom salts donates both it's structure and crystalline water to the mix. Since alum has very little water the new structures borrows both water and structures from the epsom salts. The real problem is how do we make it not accept oxygen. We want this to have zero oxygen or very very little so that it doesn't saturate the device.


 I haven't done a study yet microscopically of the structures yet because I want to get one of those computer microscopes so I can do detailed reports of the structures and how they form. MY suspicions are that the new crystals form due to voltage stresses as they grow. That means the unit should be controlled electrically as the crystals form. This would be a growing/conditioning phase and we should be able to control the atmosphere as it grows as well. once the structures are fully formed the water will be protected from the oxygen to a degree and not be able to oxidize it or the electrodes once it is fully formed.


 My one experiment used aluminum carbon and alum with borax trown in to protects the aluminum. The results were extremely revealing. The new crystals were very elongated and needle like. and this is where the power is coming from. As they grow the surface area changes and the cell looks to be gaining in it's capabilities to power loads. This cell was open to the air and I think thats what killed it eventually because the borax could not protect the aluminum enough. But the mass of crystals looked very very interesting. clumps of needle like crystals forming on good spots that had enough protection where as the few spots that galvanic's took over had very little in the way of the new crystals. Like I said I need a microscope to show you the structures. They were very neat looking. Also certain portions that galvanics ruled had aluminum integrated into the crystal structures. and I believe the thin needle like crystals were of alum and carbon donations.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 17, 2012, 09:20:17 PM
   PhiChaser and All:
   If you try to charge the cells with another battery, you will destroy the cells.  They will not charge up like regular rechargeable batteries do, even thought some cells will take a charge. it will cause them to fail prematurely due to electrolysis.  This has been tried before. You can polarize the cell for a couple of seconds (less than 30 seconds),  but not minutes, or hours), as that is not the same as charging them.   
   Although cement cells are easy to make, cheap, and can last a while, they have very high impedance. What this means is that even though the cells will start out fine, they will lose their output when connected to a load very quickly, and should therefore be used with oscillators circuits instead of a direct connection to the leds.
Don't add any salts to cement cells, as it will dissolve the aluminum. Carbon may help, though I haven't tried it.
   Here are a few pics of my cement cells, and just one of my cement cell banks. Using the thick copper inverted spiral coils are the way that I was able to get 1.250 volts, and 65mA (that's milli amps, not microamps), from each large cell.  Large capacitor cans work best for the cement cells. These type of cells will not connect up in parallel, only in series.   If you have questions about them, just let me know.  I did a lot of experiments with these cells, and worked with them for a while. They are now over a year old and still producing output, although with much less current than when they were first newly made.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 17, 2012, 09:33:57 PM
  Forgot to include the picture of the cement cell bank:

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 17, 2012, 10:01:00 PM
I took some measurements today of each panel of six cells
1.) vitamin C cells 8.34 volts and 1.82 milliamps = 15.17 watts of power per hour
2.) aspirin cells 8.05 volts and .40 milliamps    =3.22 watts per hour
Add up the watts and I get 18.39 watts per hour
In seven days these 12 cells will have generated 3,089.52 watts or 3 kilowatts.
When I build the other 18 cell panel with vitamin C that will add on another7,650.11watts per week


So I will be generating about 10 kilowatts per week from the vacuum.
I already am getting about three kilowatts per week.
All of this power is going to my head.
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 12:40:49 AM
I put together the 18 cell panel so now its drying.I tested the old tin can lid/mg cell I recharged by heating up.It was reading .98 volts.The one I burned up is reading like .005 to.000 volts.The only way I will recharge anymore cells will be in a hot car in the summertime.Make note to self check egg carton for holes.I have four cells in front leaking glue.On newspaper now.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 18, 2012, 03:04:23 AM
Let me ask a very good question here. When you put these cells in series isn't that like charging them?


 This is why they degrade! Putting them in series will kill these cells. So at best we will still be able to change our voltage up to a higher voltage, if need be, like the oscillators do. But that also lessens the current available. The loads will not be willy nilly cobbled together. They should be tuned resonant loads that is specifically designed for that cell...


 If these crystal cells are picking up a frequency it must be a radiative type going from our connection from space to our connection in our planet. This is what gravity is.. This steady pressure keeps us bound to the ground by giving our matter something to resist. The direction must be inwards. This is also what we are creating in our cells. Well the circular ones at least. This seems to be amplifying the voltage potential of the inner electrode. This gives it a higher voltage potential then it would have if it sits in air and hence the higher current. Magnesium is a key component. Graphite or copper seem to be the best conductor.


 So where do we go from here. Well interfacing nano tech might be a key here. Highly controllable local building of nano structures to increase surface area of both electrodes and even control oxidation levels. The oxide layers have proven to be a great tool in protecting the electrode from the electrolyte and this area needs to be explored more. This way the water issue is solved and hopefully all gasses are kept to a minimum. I suspect crystalline water resists oxidation and conversion to hydrogen because they are bound strongly to a larger extent. Remember that lab grown crystals would be much more pure and error free when compared to impurities using non lab qualified materials. I suspect some pressure would also increase the capabilities of these new crystals to grow.


 As I am thinking about the crystals what if they are only wicks that suck up the water and it spreads over the surface of the crystal faces and dries on to form additional structural mass in layers. That would mean oxygen might be required in the formation stage of both crystals. The oxides and the electrolyte. Then they would meet and form natural connections. Hmmm...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 03:34:00 AM




 As I am thinking about the crystals what if they are only wicks that suck up the water and it spreads over the surface of the crystal faces and dries on to form additional structural mass in layers. That would mean oxygen might be required in the formation stage of both crystals. The oxides and the electrolyte. Then they would meet and form natural connections. Hmmm...




Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 03:46:32 AM
Let me say that my best cells are the ones not stirred.My best cells are layered.If hooking them up in series  kills them then I will soon know.To find out that silicon has a repulsive push against other matter has totally blown me away.If silicon generates what is called the dark force.Causing the universe to expand more and more.Then that means silicon is everywhere in the universe.If I can use silica(a form of silicon) to keep my casimir plates open longer.Then I can get more power from my cells for longer periods of time.triffid






In the cells without silica the plates keep being pushed together until they meet.When the plates meet then no more electricity is generated and the voltages die out.But as mentioned somewhere only a slight force is required to keep the plates apart.In the case of two ships only a man in a rowboat could keep the two ships apart.I think I posted that already.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 03:52:43 AM
Also geometry of the plates can keep them open forever.Two flat plates coming together will stop the flow of energy .But make one plate a sphere and you see that theres always open space between the plates . Instead of II you have IO.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 18, 2012, 04:50:45 AM
Finally got some aspirin and vitamin c from the dollar store...
My cell 'charging' experiment has resulted in a cell that seems to hold a higher voltage than it did before I charged it. Not saying much really, I got each cell over 2.5v but now both are under 1.5v so I'm not sure where they will end up. They aren't totally dry in the center probably. Seems like the same recipe with the epsom salt totally mixed/dissolved gave higher initial readings than the mix I'm currently testing which wasn't toally mixed. One reason is probably that a quarter cup of epsom salt in relation to a quarter cup of Durham's is NOT the same mix as a half teaspoon of each. When dissolved the epsom will be way smaller in volume. That seems pretty obvious so... I need to get a small scale to measure the ingredients accurately, then mix every one the same way (whenever possible anyways). Layered stuff may work well in certain applications triffid, I'm looking for a hard electrolyte that makes a good homemade battery using pultruded carbon and aluminum as electrolytes.
Just curious IB and triffid and everyone else who posts on this thread: Should I start a new thread?
What I'm after I believe is a 'crystal' cell in that the electrolyte is crystalline in structure. I want to use the Durham's because it seems relatively inert (mostly gypsum) and is easily available in large quantities. Quickcrete isn't a really 'exact' mix IB, even though each one can set a post in the ground. Three tablespoons of quickcrete are not all the same stuff whereas three tablespoons of the Durham's IS (to a far greater degree anyways).
Pressure gives higher voltage but I believe that if I can suspend a good crystalline mix in a hard dense material (which is what the epsom and Durham's are giving me for results at the moment) that I can 'charge' up the electrolyte a bit more with conventional batteries and hold that charge in the more dense 'lattice'. Make sense?
Water is the key for sure!! Take some crystals that hold water really well (epsom, alum) and throw in some other stuff (???), add a binder (Durham's) to make it hard, add H2O to solulize everything, then harden the new 'salt' (read:stable H2O crystal) around the electrodes... Simple right? Heh heh...
Take it the next step (this is where itty bitty cell starts to make sense):
Small cells, but a LOT of them. Banks of series cells layered between parallel capacitors into capacitor banks (eventually into AC inverters...). Maybe I should start a new thread... Whatever you guys think is cool with me. There is a lot of stuff going on in this thread so it really is IB's call.
The forum has been acting kind of funny the last couple days so morining posts aren't working for me...
I will try to put some new cells together this weekend and maybe take more pics. Record keeping to start pretty soon (my first cell I made on the 9th). Ah well, paperwork was never my strong suit... ;)
Looking forward to trying some vitamin c and aspirin cells triffid!
Seems like I never have enough time but we all do what we can right? I need to catch up on the thread...
Keep up the great work guys and happy experimenting!
PC
EDIT: The 'power going to your head' statement cracked me up triffid... And Durham's is NOT the same as quikcrete or concrete, believe me!!! Adding voltage while the cells are 'setting up' is probably something that needs to be worked on. I think that will force the crystals to line up the way we want them to, making better connections between anode/cathode as well as between the crystals themselves...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 09:40:29 PM
PC, I agree with you that its IB2'S call and Theres an ad in the st.Louis area maybe the whole usa?For charter internet that their increased downloads could give you the notion that with the increased power  you  could conquer armies.Their increased power could go to your head?


I enjoyed passing it on here.So its not original.


My new cells in the 18 count panel are all producing 1.45 volts or better as high as 1.56volts.These cells I did not crush the vitamin C tablets.
If you do not have starch in your asprin(yes crush these),you will not get the same results I did.


Vitamin C with silica.I used 1000 mg  but its apparent you did not need so much.My cell I placed two pills in had the same reading as every other cell(1.45 at least).


For now I plan to build more 18 count panels.So I will collect more 18 count egg cartons(plastic with no holes)If I have a hole I will tape it up.
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 18, 2012, 09:50:13 PM
@ triffid:
Any chance of you uploading some pics of your projects? A picture is worth a thousand words you know! ;)
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 09:52:27 PM
The last couple of days i have been showing off the 6 cell panels to friends at McDonalds and to my brother.When they see the led light up they are impressed.Soon I will be charging up some batteries and see how that goes.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 09:55:07 PM
PC,I think you are doing a great job.Keep up the good work.I think everyone here has done a great job.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 18, 2012, 10:01:03 PM
 I have no camera.I had a camera in a previous cell phone but that company sold off parts of itself and forced me to go to another company,t-mobile who sold me a phone that I cannot send pictures to the internet with.Of course it was not a big deal until I started working with rock batteries.I will have to get a camera.I'm due for an free upgrade in june.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 19, 2012, 05:14:40 AM
Phi no need to start a new thread. I enjoy reading what you guys post.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 19, 2012, 07:56:17 AM
Phi no need to start a new thread. I enjoy reading what you guys post.
Cool! Well I will just keep posting here then... ;)
I've only done a couple cells with the aspirin and vitamin c (this morning) but I will go take some measurements right now (12 hrs?)...
Hmmm... Nothing as exciting as what triffid is getting, thats for sure. 0.7v and falling fast. Under a half volt in less than a minute. I made those cells today and they are already pretty hard so, next time I use more aspirin and more vitamin c. I only got one vitamin c cell done and it didn't measure that great. Never know if more vitamins (heh heh) will do the trick though... Have yet to try about a zillion combinations but process of elimination has already happened a couple times with 'tests' that didn't pan out so...
My 'charging' batteries seem to want to top out at 2.75v and 2.50v but drop to a fraction of that so I still need to do some long term testing on those to know for sure what they will stay stable at. Itty bitty cell seemed the same as it did the last time I hooked it up...
Anyhow, today was my 40th birthday so it was all good... ;)
Cheers and happy experimenting!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 19, 2012, 08:13:58 AM
Questions that I am asking myself now.How much power do I need to get off the grid?If I'm soon to be making 10 kilowatts a week.A number I still find hard to believe.To be totally free of the grid.Maybe I should wait a couple of months.See how these panels hold up?I guess its easier
to build and hook up 18 cells at a time (than 30) like I was trying to do?Maybe I can put saran wrap on the 30 count egg carton/flat so no chemicals leech into the crystals from the cardboard?Since I can use whole vitamin C tablets without crushing them can I do the same with aspirin?I think If I can generate 3000 watts an hour then I can use a 1500 watt heater and start from there?That would take about 70 18 cell count panels to to that.Seventy panels to generate slightly over 3000 watts an hour.Easy enough to store in a basement somewhere or an unused room?Since these crystals are made from food rats or mice or insects might like to eat them?Why should I build more aspirin cells since I know I get more power from vitamin C cells?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 19, 2012, 08:20:17 AM
Happy birthday PC.Does your aspirin contain starch?And your vitamin C contain silica?Did you layer or stir your cells?triffid






So far we've only found one salt sub that works,Morton Salt sub.With fumaric acid.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 19, 2012, 06:37:02 PM
I will be sealing up with wax my 18 count panel later in the evening today.The six cells in front I was worried about due to leaks are still around 1.45 volts each.I am worried about too much water in the cells.I could wait till monday or later?triffid






Remember I sealed five cells after just 36 hours?I wonder now if that was too soon?


Also I need to reveal that in making my cells in a panel that i use three sprinkles of salt sub not just two.And more glue to cover the vitamin C on top of the epson salts and the second sprinkle of salt sub.And the third and final sprinkle of salt sub on top of everything.Stick the electrodes in and set aside to dry.No testing until dry at least 12 hours later.Gives the electrodes time to stiffen in the glue.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 19, 2012, 10:41:14 PM
I will be sealing up with wax my 18 count panel later in the evening today.The six cells in front I was worried about due to leaks are still around 1.45 volts each.I am worried about too much water in the cells.I could wait till monday or later?triffid
Remember I sealed five cells after just 36 hours?I wonder now if that was too soon?
Also I need to reveal that in making my cells in a panel that i use three sprinkles of salt sub not just two.And more glue to cover the vitamin C on top of the epson salts and the second sprinkle of salt sub.And the third and final sprinkle of salt sub on top of everything.Stick the electrodes in and set aside to dry.No testing until dry at least 12 hours later.Gives the electrodes time to stiffen in the glue.
Three days seems reasonable (to me anyways...) as long as the entire cell isn't too thick. Have you tried the paper style egg cartons? They would absorb any extra H2O probably?
Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 20, 2012, 04:19:37 AM
happy b-day phi!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 20, 2012, 04:28:44 AM
NASA supposly did some experiments in the 60's with gallium as a negative electrode for a battery. Gallium seems to be good but I won't know until i get some. Its not cheap so i got 15 grams for $25 so that i can play with it. Its cool stuff and its a semiconductor too! And it also has a low melting point, it will melt in your hands.


I've also found that if you coat your magnesium or aluminum electrode with petroleum jelly it will help to cut down on corrosion.


I'm going to see if i can get my hands on some vitamin C. Do they sell it in pill form or should i get some oranges? Or is there something better?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 20, 2012, 05:27:18 AM
NASA supposly did some experiments in the 60's with gallium as a negative electrode for a battery. Gallium seems to be good but I won't know until i get some. Its not cheap so i got 15 grams for $25 so that i can play with it. Its cool stuff and its a semiconductor too! And it also has a low melting point, it will melt in your hands.
I've also found that if you coat your magnesium or aluminum electrode with petroleum jelly it will help to cut down on corrosion.
I'm going to see if i can get my hands on some vitamin C. Do they sell it in pill form or should i get some oranges? Or is there something better?
Gallium seems kind of exotic LOL!!! Way cool though IB. Definitely make a vid or something when you use that stuff... What are you going to use it with BTW?
I got 25 vitamin c tablets for a dollar (dollar store) but I'm sure you can find them cheaper. Probably available in a bulk powder somewhere...
Plengo 'treats' his magnesium slugs with a borax/H2O bath that seems to put a protective layer over them that prohibits corrosion. You might wanna check out his videos if you haven't already...
I bought an Oscilloscope today on ebay (WOOT!!!!) for $50.95 AFTER shipping... Can't wait to put some of these cells on a scope... And I found an old analog tester which will be another nice thing to have... Both together came out to within a dollar of my birthday money! :)
Anyhow, I didn't get a chance to make any cells today. My 'saltsub container cells' that just contain epsom salt and Durham's for the electrolyte (the ones I tried charging a few times) seem to stabilize at around 1.3v (probably lower, I haven't left either connected for any long term measurements) and around 0.6v (ouch). Ah well, maybe I will get some time tomorrow to make more vitamin c and aspirin cells with higher mix ratios.
Til then, happy experimenting!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 20, 2012, 08:05:21 PM
IB2,I would stick with vitamin C pills with silica in them.I sealed with wax my 18 cells about 58 hours after I made the cells.
I then went out for about three hours bought more copper wire and elmers glue all.I also bought about 20 connecting wires with alligator clips from radio shack.I came back home connected all 18 cells with good connecting wires.


In the beginning  of the test I got 20.5 volts but it dropped to a steady 15.88 volts


For the amps it steadied out at .71 milliamps.


So 15.88 volts   .71 MA    11.27 watts


Averages out to .88 volts a cell.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 20, 2012, 08:10:40 PM
Possible reasons for this panel not meeting expectations of 44 watts?


Cells were dryer
Crystal mass leaked from four cells in front.
Panel is limited by the weakest cell.
Vitamin C pills were not crushed but left whole.volts seemed ok but amps were not.



Despite that I expect this panel to make 1.89 kilowatts a week.


regards,triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 20, 2012, 08:26:05 PM
PC,Paper style egg carton 30 count flat is what I tried in the beginning.The cells were so bad off in the end I had to believe that harmful chemicals were leaching in from the paper.I think the panel I got such good results with maybe had too much water left in the 5 cells after 36 hours?Thats great that you are getting the scope.It will like getting radar for the house.Be sure to see if you get an ac current from your cells.


triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 20, 2012, 10:27:36 PM
PC,Paper style egg carton 30 count flat is what I tried in the beginning.The cells were so bad off in the end I had to believe that harmful chemicals were leaching in from the paper.I think the panel I got such good results with maybe had too much water left in the 5 cells after 36 hours?Thats great that you are getting the scope.It will like getting radar for the house.Be sure to see if you get an ac current from your cells.
triffid
Hadn't thought of chemicals leaching 'from' the paper cartons.
One of my 'tester' cells in the subsalt containers is reading steady around 1.2v, but the other dropped quickly down to around 0.6v. (I may have 'overcharged' one of them?) EDIT:Now at .4v... Need a different mix heh heh...
I will definitely be doing some homework before the scope arrives, can't wait!
Time to contruct some new cells I think.
Happy experminting all!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 21, 2012, 02:40:37 AM
I hooked up an old speaker to my 18 cell panel for a couple of hours and tested the panel at 12.55 volts and .33MA.Down to 4 watts of power I left it unhooked for a few hours and measured just now 17 volts and .66MA  =11.22watts of power.So I put a load on it it goes down.I take the load off it bounces back.I first got interested in solar cells back in 2000 when I realized what 6 volts and 600MA could do,A WHOLE LOT!triffid






averages out to .944 volts per cell
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 21, 2012, 04:32:47 AM
Heres a video clip called"onward to the edge(of the universe)  Our rock batteries will take us there thru the interstellar dark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akek6cFRZfY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akek6cFRZfY&feature=related) .I plan to build another 18 count panel soon.This time I will crush each vitamin C pill and make sure there are no holes in the egg carton.triffid




http://hho2u.hubpages.com/hub/hho_fuel_hho_Generator (http://hho2u.hubpages.com/hub/hho_fuel_hho_Generator)  just parking this here it gives some unusal info on hho electrolytes.


May be useful to me in making rock batteries.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 21, 2012, 04:58:03 AM

Sodium sulfate is much weaker than lye,.Citric acid was mentioned also.May we should go from dry organic acids to dry organic bases?What about cleaning products?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 21, 2012, 07:09:21 AM
@ triffid: I'm trying to stay away from anything really toxic as far as under counter chemicals.
Tonight I made four 'tea candle' cells using 5:3 aspirin/Durham's and the same ratio of vitamin c. I also made two cells using epsom salt (same 5:3 ratio only .5tsp H2O instead of 1tsp for the first two). One I crushed the salt a bit and mixed it dry, the other I tried to solulize (and crush more) before adding the Durham's.
The aspirin cell I made sweat water pretty good! I had to set some paper towels on top for a little while to wick away the condensation... Water going out is good! Have you had similar results triffid?
I have a sea salt cell I made about a week ago that holds 0.6v+ Will have to revisit that...
My itty bitty cell got a little (ha ha) broken so I scraped off some of the electrolte and now there is a tiny aluminum nub I can still attatch a clip to. It still seems to land at 0.56v :)
Um... I have a 'kitchen sink' cell that has a little epsom but mostly salt sub and a dash of sea salt (in the Durham's 'base') that starts at over a volt but it isn't quite dry yet (I don't think).
Vitamin c seems like it 'rises' a little bit (like a muffin only not so much) as it dries but I'm not having nearly the success triffid is (so far anyways...).

Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 21, 2012, 01:50:47 PM
Here is a video of me trying to keep magnesium from corroding. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIqI4XItsHo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIqI4XItsHo)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 21, 2012, 01:52:16 PM
Sodium sulfate is much weaker than lye,.Citric acid was mentioned also.May we should go from dry organic acids to dry organic bases?What about cleaning products?triffid


Lye is pretty much the stuff in AA batteries. Its very Toxic and highly corrosive.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 21, 2012, 04:15:56 PM
Thanks IB2 for the video on how to keep magnesium from corroding.I had no idea petro jelly was conductive.I have been wanting to build a cell with two or three drops of vineagar in it to see what happens.Now I can protect both electrodes.A vitamin C cell with vineagar would have three acids in it.acetic acid,ascorbic acid ,and fumaric acid.triffid\






1.8 volts not bad.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 21, 2012, 05:51:47 PM
Thanks IB2 for the video on how to keep magnesium from corroding.I had no idea petro jelly was conductive.I have been wanting to build a cell with two or three drops of vineagar in it to see what happens.Now I can protect both electrodes.A vitamin C cell with vineagar would have three acids in it.acetic acid,ascorbic acid ,and fumaric acid.triffid\






1.8 volts not bad.


Petroleum Jelly is not conductive, it actually rejects water. Petroleum won't dissolve in water so I figured it would be perfect to protect the electrodes. What I didn't expect was that it will still allow voltage, I think the petro jelly blocks electrons flow but allows ion flow which is why i get voltage. In-fact this cell should not be possible. I'm still studying this and I have magnesium electrode with petroleum jelly on it in water and other salts in it and watching it to see if it corrodes, so far its not corroding and it gives me 1.5 volts @ 300uA.


Be careful with vinegar and magnesium, I wouldn't leave the magnesium in the vinegar overnight. The only reason why I use vinegar was because it will corrode magnesium much faster than water would and wanted to show people that it was not corroding with the jelly on it and i was still getting voltage too. The vinegar reacts crazy to magnesium, the magnesium will actually dissolve completely  in vinegar if the metal is not protected.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: Tenbatsu on February 21, 2012, 06:23:30 PM
Ibpointless, have you performed a before and after test to see if there is a reduction in voltage/amperage after applying the petroleum jelly to the magnesium strip?




Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 21, 2012, 11:57:45 PM
I will have to get some new petro jelly.My old one is not conductive,about a year old with no lid.It may degrade(the jelly that is).I had to replace the battery in my voltmeter today.I cant believe I had to replace it after a month and a half.I did not try your variation of the magnesium test in vineagar.No room and no time.I was thinking maybe you found something totally new?How to make a wet cell without corrosion?triffid






That would be exciting.I used to work for a company that had acid inhibitors for metal.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 22, 2012, 12:11:40 AM
18 count panel still holding around 14.55 volts and .30 ma.I was thinking about seeking out the weak cells and cut them  out and see what I could do with that.?I would just unhook them and bypass them.Still giving me about 4 watts.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 22, 2012, 12:18:58 AM
IB2,When you say 300 uamps are you saying 300 microamps?A milliamp =1000 microamps if I remember correctly.I did check my voltmeter and it does not read microamps.  triffid




Maybe your cell is reading 300ma?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: Tenbatsu on February 22, 2012, 01:18:39 AM
triffid, how you are you achieving 4 watts?

The voltage and the amperage that you listed above only provides for roughly .0044 watts .

Or did you mean to type .3amps instead of .3ma ?

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 22, 2012, 02:16:49 AM
 Now listen carefully IB. What you need to do is oxidize the electrodes and let them dry thoroughly. Now this is the easy part. Put them in layered fashion Copper/Magnesium/Copper/Magnesium and hook them in parallel. Put cheese cloth in between each layer that has been pre-soaked in alum crystals and boil it all in oil to remove all the air, water and oxygen. There you have it. Only the crystals will touch and everything else will be sealed from air and water! As it cools the crystals will solidify and create the connection in between the plates with only the water that is in the crystals<-pure crystalline water.

 I havent done this yet because I need to get some magnesium and copper plates. I am gonna try it because I think this is the key... Oxygen is the problem here not water. Thats why Tesla used boiled oil coils to exclude oxygen from the coils and greatly extended the operating tolerances. This process could be used here as well...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 22, 2012, 02:23:59 AM
IB2,When you say 300 uamps are you saying 300 microamps?A milliamp =1000 microamps if I remember correctly.I did check my voltmeter and it does not read microamps.  triffid




Maybe your cell is reading 300ma?




It was 300uA (micro-amps) or .300mA is also the same. Yes 1000uA  1mA. Not many meters can read micro-amps and I know what you mean about batteries in multi-meters. The meter i use most is  the INNOVA 3300, I got it at Walmart for $12 and i find it better than my $60 plus meters. I've had it for at least 4 months and it still has the same battery in it, this is a great meter. I would say its the best cheap meter i ever owned.


yes my goal now is to build cells that don't corrode the metals, its a very hard task to do. I just did a new video where I show the amps of a cell that has petroluem jelly on the magnesium and its in Epsom salt and salt substitute water and i get around 1000uA or 1mA.   [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B05_WuKJWxE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B05_WuKJWxE)[/size]



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 22, 2012, 02:35:43 AM
Now listen carefully IB. What you need to do is oxidize the electrodes and let them dry thoroughly. Now this is the easy part. Put them in layered fashion Copper/Magnesium/Copper/Magnesium and hook them in parallel. Put cheese cloth in between each layer that has been pre-soaked in alum crystals and boil it all in oil to remove all the air, water and oxygen. There you have it. Only the crystals will touch and everything else will be sealed from air and water! As it cools the crystals will solidify and create the connection in between the plates with only the water that is in the crystals<-pure crystalline water.

 I havent done this yet because I need to get some magnesium and copper plates. I am gonna try it because I think this is the key... Oxygen is the problem here not water. Thats why Tesla used boiled oil coils to exclude oxygen from the coils and greatly extended the operating tolerances. This process could be used here as well...


Very interesting jbigness5. I'm with you, oxygen is playing a big role in the corrosion. I think oxygen plus water is making things go bad for metals (water contains oxygen). But a problem with using oxidize electrodes, they're oxidized so the oxygen are ready reacted to them. When Magnesium corrodes it becomes magnesium-oxide which is not very conductive at all. So we loose power when the metals are oxidizing.  So yes you're correct that oxygen is a problem, the combing of oxygen make the metal turn into its powder forum and that's why the metal breaks apart.


I have new video out where im using petroleum jelly to protect the magnesium and i'm getting close to 1mA. So far the magnesium has not corrode on me yet and it should have shown some corrosion by now because the control cells are corroding. I'm guessing the oxygen is not allowed to touch the metal so it won't corrode or turn into magnesium oxide. Petroleum jelly repels water, which means the oxygen in water gets forced away and the hydrogen is only touching the petroleum jelly and thus the metals don't corrode. This is all theory now and more testing is being done.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 22, 2012, 03:05:07 AM
 I wonder if the oil immersion process can grow the crystals on the metals without bulk water being involved? Oxidized metal might not work for like magnesium and we might get the crystals to grow on the magnesium without using water and bypassing that process of oxidation making a direct deposit to the metals.


 Oil is used to give it a resistance to break down like electrolysis as well or shorting.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 22, 2012, 03:38:13 AM
this is how i am calculating my watts:
volts x amps= watts
millivolts x milliamps=milliwatts


When i get 8.02 volts and .20 milliamps I do it like this 8.02volts x1000millivolts/volts x .20 milliamps=1605milliwattsx1watt/1000milliwatts=1.6watts




you have to convert volts to millivolts so you multiply by 1000.Then divide by 1000 to get watts out of milliwatts.This is how I have been doing all of my calculations.


So 1.6watts is what I am getting out of my aspirin (6)cells now.


And for the six cells of vitamin C cells,7.8 volts and .45ma   3.51watts


So both panels have dropped in their power quite a bit the second week of life.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 22, 2012, 03:47:41 AM
.3amps =300 milliamp
.3ma=.3ma
I know the difference.I was hoping IB2s new cell was 300ma. 300uamp tells me its alot smaller.
triffid






Thanks for the voltmeter tip IB2.I think I will be getting me one.
1amp=1000 milliamp=1000000uamp(microamps).
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 22, 2012, 03:51:49 AM
Now listen carefully IB. What you need to do is oxidize the electrodes and let them dry thoroughly. Now this is the easy part. Put them in layered fashion Copper/Magnesium/Copper/Magnesium and hook them in parallel. Put cheese cloth in between each layer that has been pre-soaked in alum crystals and boil it all in oil to remove all the air, water and oxygen. There you have it. Only the crystals will touch and everything else will be sealed from air and water! As it cools the crystals will solidify and create the connection in between the plates with only the water that is in the crystals<-pure crystalline water.

 I havent done this yet because I need to get some magnesium and copper plates. I am gonna try it because I think this is the key... Oxygen is the problem here not water. Thats why Tesla used boiled oil coils to exclude oxygen from the coils and greatly extended the operating tolerances. This process could be used here as well...

I agree that water isn't the problem, it is oxygen. Man... I still need to get some alum.
@ triffid: 1.8v is awesome!!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 22, 2012, 04:12:55 AM
I do not feel so bad now.I was worried I had too much water in those vitamin C cells.They are still lighting an led tonight.I cant wait to try petro jelly on a new cell.triffid




maybe tomorrow?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 22, 2012, 01:20:16 PM
this is how i am calculating my watts:
volts x amps= watts
millivolts x milliamps=milliwatts


When i get 8.02 volts and .20 milliamps I do it like this 8.02volts x1000millivolts/volts x .20 milliamps=1605milliwattsx1watt/1000milliwatts=1.6watts




you have to convert volts to millivolts so you multiply by 1000.Then divide by 1000 to get watts out of milliwatts.This is how I have been doing all of my calculations.


So 1.6watts is what I am getting out of my aspirin (6)cells now.


And for the six cells of vitamin C cells,7.8 volts and .45ma   3.51watts


So both panels have dropped in their power quite a bit the second week of life.




To calculate watts for 8.02 Volts @ .20mA you must convert the .20mA to amps. .20mA = 0.0002A [size=78%]http://www.convertunits.com/from/milliamps/to/amps (http://www.convertunits.com/from/milliamps/to/amps)[/size]


Then you take 8.02 volts * 0.0002A  = 0.001604watts or 1.604mW
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 22, 2012, 08:15:16 PM


 Ok Ib,


 I'm starting to get the reason these guys go in circles all the time. Oxygen is the determining factor to corrosion. It is the reason they coat metals with a protective layer. It's not water it is the oxygen the water carries. Too much oxygen like in bulk water and it attacks the metals. Little to no extra oxygen like in crystalline water and the metals survive happy and very little corrosion messes up the supply of voltage and current.


 Don't let them get to you, oxygen is the whole reason things corrode. Figure out how to remove the oxygen and you have the perfect transfer vehicle for current and voltage as it's guide.


 The oxide might not work on the magnesium but that can be fixed by not letting oxygen touch the magnesium. The copper we can use the oxide to protect it just in case. I got to check to see if there is any previously done experiments with growing crystals in oil....

 Here is a good pdf of what I am thinking about: http://www.inoe.ro/JOAM/pdf2_5/Sato.pdf
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 22, 2012, 11:09:35 PM
Ok PC it was IB2 getting 1.8 volts in his video.I never got it in my experiments.I saw that on his video and pretty much said WOW!
As far as calculating anything I am sorry if I was wrong in my calculations I will have to go over them.But I did report my voltages and milliamps honestly.So you can do your own calculations.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 22, 2012, 11:57:33 PM
Ok I guess I got my units out of whack?
volts x amps =watts
millivolts x milliamps =milliwatts.So my watts is actually milliwatts? How depressing.


It was a bad day for me today.I needed a cold beer and didnt get one.


Milliwatts is still lighting an LED however,guess I will not quit.




triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 12:20:12 AM
Ok I guess I got my units out of whack?
volts x amps =watts
millivolts x milliamps =milliwatts.So my watts is actually milliwatts? How depressing.


It was a bad day for me today.I needed a cold beer and didnt get one.


Milliwatts is still lighting an LED however,guess I will not quit.




triffid


don't get too down my friend, AA batteries are measured in milli-watts and milli-watts can power a LED just fine. You can do a lot with just milli-watts!  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 12:45:56 AM

 Ok Ib,


 I'm starting to get the reason these guys go in circles all the time. Oxygen is the determining factor to corrosion. It is the reason they coat metals with a protective layer. It's not water it is the oxygen the water carries. Too much oxygen like in bulk water and it attacks the metals. Little to no extra oxygen like in crystalline water and the metals survive happy and very little corrosion messes up the supply of voltage and current.


 Don't let them get to you, oxygen is the whole reason things corrode. Figure out how to remove the oxygen and you have the perfect transfer vehicle for current and voltage as it's guide.


 The oxide might not work on the magnesium but that can be fixed by not letting oxygen touch the magnesium. The copper we can use the oxide to protect it just in case. I got to check to see if there is any previously done experiments with growing crystals in oil....

 Here is a good pdf of what I am thinking about: http://www.inoe.ro/JOAM/pdf2_5/Sato.pdf (http://www.inoe.ro/JOAM/pdf2_5/Sato.pdf)




yes, you're seeing what i'm seeing.  :)


Figuring out how to remove the oxygen will keep the magnesium from corroding.


I really don't know what to do anymore, it seems like everyone hates me on EF. I never wrote that thread to hurt bedini, in-fact everything mention in that thread was a concentration of what was previous said to him in older post and he has answer the question before too. It always seems like bedini and me are always arguing with each other, its not that we hate each other its just that we see things very different.  :-\



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 23, 2012, 01:06:17 AM



yes, you're seeing what i'm seeing.  :)


Figuring out how to remove the oxygen will keep the magnesium from corroding.


I really don't know what to do anymore, it seems like everyone hates me on EF. I never wrote that thread to hurt bedini, in-fact everything mention in that thread was a concentration of what was previous said to him in older post and he has answer the question before too. It always seems like bedini and me are always arguing with each other, its not that we hate each other its just that we see things very different.  :-\


 I know what it is. You called him out on his 200 dollar kit. It is his business you hurt and now they are getting back at you like they did with me. Call into question why a battery would cost 200 dollars and you get all sorts of crap piled onto you.


 I made the mistake of doing that to Aaron and got the shaft and booted. So I came here. Don't let it get you down. Keep going you have always had a keener sense then those guys follow your nose and it will lead you to the promise land.


 I did a search on Aaron over at EF and he is a school taught sales man. He co owns a "health" store with his mother and is only putting the site up for sales. Thats where Bedini comes in. I found a recording of talk about people in a sales "Science and Technology" conference. It's not about that it is only about sales or the persuit of getting more sales....


 Reference conference audio:  http://www.archive.org/details/SanfordStaabBidiniFreeEnergyConference

 The audio tells it all. I suspect it was the preconference audio.. Who it was made by I don't know but it is revealing. It is revealing about those guys true intentions and that is only sales...... They don't want UL approval of an electrical device???? WTF...

 Listen for words like dissenter or troublemaker. Sales and selling. Especially when they are eating. That event was not about technology. It was a conference about getting sales force and introducing that force into the event, it was only themed in technology. A theme they are trying to market aggressively. It's called grooming your sales force and your targets for sales.

 1:33:00 comes the pitch. Would you like to be part of our organization?...

 1:36:00  See what Peter Lindemann was accused of doing shortly after the sales pitch.. It's hard to follow audio wise but I can clearly hear one guy talking about Peter and who he is and how he is related to Energetix...

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 23, 2012, 01:31:10 AM
I worked some more on my 18 count panel.I connected the six back cells together.Got 5 volts and .5mas.Now lighting another LED with it.Pretty bright.I may put together another 6 cells tomorrow.vinegar and vitamin C.Crushed vitamin C that is.triffid


I also want to try coffee grinds.I know it sounds crazy but they contain natural acids too.Coffee grinds and liquid dishwashing soap make a good grease cleaner for greasy hands.For auto mechanics it can take the place of goop.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 02:01:11 AM

 I know what it is. You called him out on his 200 dollar kit. It is his business you hurt and now they are getting back at you like they did with me. Call into question why a battery would cost 200 dollars and you get all sorts of crap piled onto you.


 I made the mistake of doing that to Aaron and got the shaft and booted. So I came here. Don't let it get you down. Keep going you have always had a keener sense then those guys follow your nose and it will lead you to the promise land.


 I did a search on Aaron over at EF and he is a school taught sales man. He co owns a "health" store with his mother and is only putting the site up for sales. Thats where Bedini comes in. I found a recording of Bedini talking about people in a sales "Science and Technology" conference. It's not about that it is only about sales or the persuit of getting more sales....


 Reference conference audio:  http://www.archive.org/details/SanfordStaabBidiniFreeEnergyConference (http://www.archive.org/details/SanfordStaabBidiniFreeEnergyConference)

 The audio tells it all. I suspect it was the preconference audio.. Who it was made by I don't know but it is revealing. It is revealing about those guys true intentions and that is only sales...... They don't want UL approval of an electrical device? ??? WTF...


I can't believe you got banned. It seems like everyone is getting banned left and right. The guy who owns Overunity.com is a great guy, he often gives me help with my cells. I tried to give my cells away to people who wanted them, no charge, even try to give one to Bedini but he did not want it. You're right jbignes5 and thanks for the audio. What sucks is that others hate me due to bedini being upset with me. I'll keep making my cells and I'll find the golden egg one day.  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 23, 2012, 02:33:46 AM
  Well... don't feel alone.
   I also got my ass in the fire, just mentioning someones name.  I have never talk down about anyone.  But, I guess we are the guys they must be talking about, the ones that don't know anything about anything. Right?
                                     
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 23, 2012, 02:48:31 AM
  I've also been mentioning many times before about the true cause of oxidation is oxygen, and yes it's in the water. The water that we can't do anything without.  I don't buy it, but I can't make cell that have any current without it.  Do we really need current. Do we?
Or is it that we just don't know how to avoid it, yet.
  Jim and Fausto are doing some interesting things with their carbon/mg cells, some with no additional water.
  Today I made a carbon beach sand cell, without removing the salt from the beach sand. I'll let you know more in a day or two, as to how it turns out.  But, so far it works well. Although, I know that salt and aluminum will deteriorate, muy pronto.
                                                                                                         Nick
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 23, 2012, 03:32:02 AM
@ triffid: Sorry about the bad numbers but ANY positive numbers are good really... mA can do a lot (like IB said)!!! I'm trying to find a stable mix at around 0.75v and100mA but if I can do better I'm game. Just trying to stay away from copper and magnesium (at least for a while)... Pretty sure pultruded carbon rods don't corrode, and aluminum is pretty resilient (and cheap!). I already know it works, I just need amps like everyone else (or do we?!?).
@ IB: That magic mix is out there... Don't worry about 'those guys' dude, they're just like us. Shooting in the dark with a flashlight. Once I was enamoured with their 'ideals' until I discovered that they want the dollars to go with their popularity. Open source is not the place to make a fortune... Better to show the world how to build 'it' then to sell 'it' to the world.
More people working on a problem means more people working on a solution to that problem.
Power to the people!!

Cheers, happy experimenting all!!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on February 23, 2012, 03:42:36 AM

I can't believe you got banned. It seems like everyone is getting banned left and right. The guy who owns Overunity.com is a great guy, he often gives me help with my cells. I tried to give my cells away to people who wanted them, no charge, even try to give one to Bedini but he did not want it. You're right jbignes5 and thanks for the audio. What sucks is that others hate me due to bedini being upset with me. I'll keep making my cells and I'll find the golden egg one day.  :)

Wow,
Bedini wants to have 200 US$ for his crystall battery kit ?

What do you get for this ?
Just the magnesium block and the copper plate and the electrolyte ?
or are they selling also the Joule Thief circuit and LED with it ?

Too bad to hear, that you got booted there from EForum.

Well then stay here ! ;)

I will soon join in again in the battery research.

Will be testing the AZ31X magnesium alloy rods soon.
I still need to find a method to coat them with a good oxide layer...
Maybe the Pyrite coating with Waterglas that Plengo is using will help ?

The Zamax alloy , which is an alloy of Zinc Aluminium and magnesium and copper .
The name zamak is an acronym (http://www.facebook.com/pages/w/114974258517630) of the German (http://www.facebook.com/pages/w/108100019211318) names for the metals (http://www.facebook.com/pages/w/109269189103327) of which the alloys are composed: Zink (zinc), Aluminium, Magnesium and Kupfer (copper).

See:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zamak/112613222086205 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zamak/112613222086205)

It is the same as Durafix, ( alloy rods for repairing aluminium cases via soldering)
It is very nice, cause you can make and coat it with  a very hard black layer via electrolysis.

If you use this alloy in an electrolysis bath and use small percentage vinegar as the electrolyte
and put the Zamak ( Durafix rod) as the Plus pole, (When I remember correctly the polarity)
you get the black coating pretty fast on this rod, which is very hard and prtoects the rod from
fast decomposing.

Then use these rods as one electrode in your crystal battery.
The other electrode can be graphite or lampblack with a pencil lead.
You can add also snad or zeolite and use water or water with K2CO3 as the electrolyite.

I have not yet tested Epsom salt ( in Germany it is called: Bittersalz. you can get it here cheaply
in every Pharmacy fand 100 Gramms costs just only 1.50 Euroi)
and Alum yet, but I have recently bought these salts and
will soon begin to experiment again with this...

Btw, magnesium can be easily got by using using metallic pencil sharpeners
cause these are made from magnesium metall.

I hope this helps-

Search here for the aqua cells from Walt Hoffmann. He was the one who started
all this research with the Durafix rods. There are old threads here in the forum from
a few years ago...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: hartiberlin on February 23, 2012, 03:47:36 AM
P.S. But the Durafix rods also decomposed after a long time, cause Walter and me used saltwater a few
years ago as the electrolyte in these batteries.

Maybe with just water and Epsom salt or just the Pyrite-Waterglas coating and using only
water this will not happen ?

We will find out...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 23, 2012, 04:41:59 AM
Hello!


 And thanks for the invite to stay. I tend not to judge someone on what they say I usually judge them by what they do. When called out Aaron quickly deleted my posts and banned me. It was because I was right. It was a mess really and I knew he would pull something like that. He told me That I didn't know anything because I did not do any experiments but IB and a few others know my work. Yes I theorize alot but I also put those theories to the test in my private lab.


 The thing about Water. IB could you post the crystalline water link again so people might bet refreshed on the subject. The thing is, it is clear it is para-magnetic. remember there are two kinds of water. One that is saturated with oxygen and one that has very little in oxygen.The water we want is the in the epsoms salt. That is pure crystalline water. It has very little oxygen in it because it was built layer by layer and that does not include oxygen per say. Oxygen is only a binder in crystals and not used for much else. We need only a small amount to facilitate having the structure and then letting the water do it's job to ferret the charges across the gap of the electrodes.


 I suspect we are gonna need to find a crystal interface for the magnesium so that we don't have to deal with corrosion because all the water and oxygen will be bound into the crystals upon growth. once we have a protective crystalline layer for the magnesium it will be easy to apply the crystalline electrolyte in a setting and let it grow itself closed to complete the circuit. Remember the crystals are like diodes. They transfer only one way efficiently via the trapped crystalline water inside. This water stays like it is because it has very little oxygen in it leaving just very compact water molecules. This of course raises it's capability to transfer charges across the network the crystals provide. If done right with the right shape and geometry the batteries could out perform anything we have today by tens of years.


 Plengo's use of Iron pyrite is very interesting. He has shown that is does not allow oxidation of the magnesium and this should be checked again to see what is really going on. I have my theories as to the process but another person also made a battery from iron and the reversable rusting process. Edison I think it was. But I digress.


 There are a lot of bright people out there. You have to be as bright to figure out who is in it and for what reasons they are searching. Most are so bright they let others do the work and claim it as their own all in the guise of open source. They patent ideas straight off the forums and then say they authored it when in fact many people had a hand in doing the leg work. No one here and I think you know who I am talking about.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 23, 2012, 04:59:47 AM
I also just wated to point out that this is a reference for paramagnatism of oxygen:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcGEev8qulA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcGEev8qulA&feature=related)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 23, 2012, 06:35:20 AM
@ jbignes5:
I think you are exactly right about oxygen being the killer, not water. Aluminum doesn't 'rust' until you start adding acids.
A list we need to start compiling IMO:
Epsom salt has 7H2O - (MgSO4·7H2O) = SEVEN!
Alum has 12H2O - AB(SO4)2·12H2O = TWELVE!! ((potassium aluminum sulfate))
These are are exactly the kinds of crystalline water we are looking for to use in our electrolytes. Cheap too!!
My methodology would be to solulize, mix with a 'helpful' base that gets really hard, then take the 'extra' water out somehow and keep the crystalline structure (the 'base' would help the crystalline structure to stay 'aligned'). :)
Starch seems to push water out... What exactly is starch?
My brother suggested having the anode/cathode close enough that you would/could grow the crystal directly 'on' the electrodes thereby letting the crystal 'decide' what shape it wanted to be... I think IB did a couple of those, or something similar? Form factors would be interesting. (Heh heh!) More cells maybe this weekend. Gotta get some alum still...

Cheers!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 01:28:28 PM
  Well... don't feel alone.
   I also got my ass in the fire, just mentioning someones name.  I have never talk down about anyone.  But, I guess we are the guys they must be talking about, the ones that don't know anything about anything. Right?
                                   


I'm sure we're the guys, and it sucks. I remember you saying oxygen might be the reason for the corrosion, but their exist two types of corrosion, one with oxygen and one without. Steel can corrode when exposed to oxygen but it can also corrode in concrete where there is no oxygen. Steel turns red when rusting in oxygen but turns green when no oxygen is around.  I don't know why he says we don't know nothing, I do the corrosion testing and so do others. I also don't see why he keeps telling use we need to use 100% magnesium, the reason why the  magnesium is alloyed is to make it less corrosive. Magnesium with zinc in it is less corrosive than pure Magnesium due to zinc being higher up on the galvanic charts so its less reactive.


 Keep up the good Work NickZ!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 02:09:04 PM
Wow,
Bedini wants to have 200 US$ for his crystall battery kit ?

What do you get for this ?
Just the magnesium block and the copper plate and the electrolyte ?
or are they selling also the Joule Thief circuit and LED with it ?

Too bad to hear, that you got booted there from EForum.

Well then stay here ! ;)

I will soon join in again in the battery research.

Will be testing the AZ31X magnesium alloy rods soon.
I still need to find a method to coat them with a good oxide layer...
Maybe the Pyrite coating with Waterglas that Plengo is using will help ?

The Zamax alloy , which is an alloy of Zinc Aluminium and magnesium and copper .
The name zamak is an acronym (http://www.facebook.com/pages/w/114974258517630) of the German (http://www.facebook.com/pages/w/108100019211318) names for the metals (http://www.facebook.com/pages/w/109269189103327) of which the alloys are composed: Zink (zinc), Aluminium, Magnesium and Kupfer (copper).

See:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zamak/112613222086205 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zamak/112613222086205)

It is the same as Durafix, ( alloy rods for repairing aluminium cases via soldering)
It is very nice, cause you can make and coat it with  a very hard black layer via electrolysis.

If you use this alloy in an electrolysis bath and use small percentage vinegar as the electrolyte
and put the Zamak ( Durafix rod) as the Plus pole, (When I remember correctly the polarity)
you get the black coating pretty fast on this rod, which is very hard and prtoects the rod from
fast decomposing.

Then use these rods as one electrode in your crystal battery.
The other electrode can be graphite or lampblack with a pencil lead.
You can add also snad or zeolite and use water or water with K2CO3 as the electrolyite.

I have not yet tested Epsom salt ( in Germany it is called: Bittersalz. you can get it here cheaply
in every Pharmacy fand 100 Gramms costs just only 1.50 Euroi)
and Alum yet, but I have recently bought these salts and
will soon begin to experiment again with this...

Btw, magnesium can be easily got by using using metallic pencil sharpeners
cause these are made from magnesium metall.

I hope this helps-

Search here for the aqua cells from Walt Hoffmann. He was the one who started
all this research with the Durafix rods. There are old threads here in the forum from
a few years ago...

Regards, Stefan.


Yes he's charging $200 US dollars for a cell that gives no more power than a AA battery but needs constant water to keep it going. [size=78%]http://www.teslachargers.com/crystalwaterbattery.html (http://www.teslachargers.com/crystalwaterbattery.html)[/size]


I don't know how i feel about iron pyrite yet. When exposed to water and oxygen it makes sulphuric acid.


I'm very interested in using other metals. I think we should try other metals out  (safe metals) and see how they react. I also wonder about using aluminum in its powder form, I know metals in their powder form can be a problem but it makes me wonder. Maybe break down aluminum into its powder form and then suspend it in glue to make it a solid powder form? Or we could find something that coats the metal?


@all
The reason why Bedini says his cells consume water is that on one electrode oxygen is made but on the other hydrogen is made. All batteries do this. The battery is making electricity so thus that electricity is going to do some electrolysis too. The electrolysis is so small though and most of the water gets evaporated, only about 2% of the water is consumed due to electrolysis and the rest is evaporated. Lead acid batteries do this all the time and that's why they need water added to them after a long period of use.


I often thought we should re-visit the concrete cells. Concrete is a porous solid that doesn't have oxygen trapped inside of it. The electrodes in concrete are trapped inside of the concrete so its much harder for them to break-apart and decompose as easy. Just add water to the concrete when you need to use it, it will absorb it and the concrete will lower its resistance. The only thing that will show corrosion in a concrete cell will be the electrodes where its coming of out of the concrete. The top of the concrete with the electrodes sticking out can have paint or liquid plastic or even wax placed on top of them to keep the electrodes from corroding. Put a hole in the bottom of the concrete cup so that it can absorb water, it take in water by use of the capillary action which is water's crystal forum growing. This is just an idea.


What also might be a good thing to use is just plain old ore's. Ore's have been exposed to the elements so they're protected.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 02:11:33 PM
@ jbignes5:
I think you are exactly right about oxygen being the killer, not water. Aluminum doesn't 'rust' until you start adding acids.
A list we need to start compiling IMO:
Epsom salt has 7H2O - (MgSO4·7H2O) = SEVEN!
Alum has 12H2O - AB(SO4)2·12H2O = TWELVE!! ((potassium aluminum sulfate))
These are are exactly the kinds of crystalline water we are looking for to use in our electrolytes. Cheap too!!
My methodology would be to solulize, mix with a 'helpful' base that gets really hard, then take the 'extra' water out somehow and keep the crystalline structure (the 'base' would help the crystalline structure to stay 'aligned'). :)
Starch seems to push water out... What exactly is starch?
My brother suggested having the anode/cathode close enough that you would/could grow the crystal directly 'on' the electrodes thereby letting the crystal 'decide' what shape it wanted to be... I think IB did a couple of those, or something similar? Form factors would be interesting. (Heh heh!) More cells maybe this weekend. Gotta get some alum still...

Cheers!
PC


Here's a video you might be talking about [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVqCVP1HR0g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVqCVP1HR0g)[/size]



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 02:18:37 PM
I also just wated to point out that this is a reference for paramagnatism of oxygen:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcGEev8qulA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcGEev8qulA&feature=related)


Great video!


oxygen is attracted to magnets.


Water is attracted to electricity. [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWQ-r1LYXY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWQ-r1LYXY)[/size]


Water is repelled by magnets. [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyqOTJOJSoU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyqOTJOJSoU)[/size]


I ran some experiment a month ago where i was testing to see if a magnetic field would help keep the anode from corroding. The anode was magnetic so I stuck a magnet to it in hopes that a magnetic field would push away the oxygen. I had a control cell with the same setup but lacking a magnet. The final result was that both still corroded but the one with the magnet corroded less.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 23, 2012, 03:43:29 PM
  @Ib2, and all:
   The problem also with the other forum is that some of this research is being done with a commercial gain in mind, at least ultimately. So, if what you are doing is not adding to their particular interests, you get discarded like an old shoe.  At first my carbon cells were dismissed, as not being of interest to the dry cell project based on salts ( called crystals cells), along with my cement cells, which I still use daily, over a year later.  And now as carbon is on top of the list, things are starting to change.
 I see that the carbon is fine, and will last a long time, and does not contaminate, as I had thought in my cells, but what happens is, it just drys out. You wet it and like in Plengo's cell, thay just come back to life.  But corrosion is still a big big factor in open salt cells, and always will be, even with the semiconductor protective layer. This still needs to be looked into. The only thing that will resist salts and acids is carbon.
   The Cement Cells when properly made gave 60 to 70 mAs, each cell.  That is more than all my dry carbon cells output altogether.  There are several tricks to how to make them so they will last and keep producing. Most people that have made just one or two of them will not know about it.  I worked on them for several months. Their higher impedance factor is due to the wetness content of the cement electrolyte. Which does hold some moisture sealed inside, similar to how salts hold their water. As this water drys out, the cells output will also drop.  This is true with ALMOST all cells.  But, I still feel that there is a way to use water, without actually using it up, similar to how the dry glue cells works, and the metals stay clean and shinny, while still putting out some juice. In fact obtaining most any voltage needed, but with no current. But, the question remains, do we absolutely have to have current?  Maybe not.  Time will tell with that aspect also.

     
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 23, 2012, 04:30:00 PM
 Ok. So now you are seeing water is the vehicle we need here. But we need not bulk water but crystalline water. Bulk water is bulk because of saturation of oxygen in it not because it is water. think about the process of crystal building and you will see that oxygen has little to do with the process and for the most part oxygen gets pushed out of the crystal. This changes the water into crystalline water because there is little room for oxygen. It seems to be crystallized but it is only very organized. I can't stress that enough.


 Nothing in our environment has no oxygen and nothing in our world is perfectly sealed from oxygen but there are ways to remove the oxygen from the device after it is done being formed (crystallized).


 Electrolysis happens if you try to buffer the voltage (in series). Think of the regular batteries we use. In series they add their voltage together. So we have 1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5 each one of these cells see's 4.5 volts more then it holds from each end. That is the reason for electrolysis in these batteries. You could think of the batteries as pressure pumps. each capable of pushing 1.5 times it's own weight. Putting them together changes the acceleration of the energy raising it's voltage potential and not changing it's charge ability. This process I believe in our batteries will kill them in no time. Like you said it will have electrolysis the water will break down into hydrogen and oxygen and do two things. The oxygen attacks the electrodes and the hydrogen floats away.


 There will have to be certain steps to build these simple cells.


 1. The metals must be treated to protect against oxygen.
 2. The cells must be sealed to prevent leakage of the crystalline water if the cell goes into electrolysis mode or the byproducts of electrolysis.
 3. The plates should be encompassing, meaning it surrounds the center electrode, much like a Leyden jar (joe cells shown the same potential).
 4. After the cell is made and before it is sealed, mineral oil should be fed to the cell to seal it further. <-this I have not checked on yet. This mineral oil should be doped with a conducting additive to allow an electrolyte type conduction. <-haven't been tested yet, might not work.
 


 Since water is weakly repelling a magnetic field and oxygen attracts the magnetic field, I would think this helps set up channels for the energy to flow in a cell like this. Water has a bismuth like effect. It reflects the magnetic field (via induction, my best guess).


 Another thing is lead acid batteries don't only have acid in them. They have water as well. I think this water is used as a static generator as it hits the positive plates of the battery. The water is pushed into the plate and that causes a rubbing of the water over the crystalline structure of the lead. This imparts a voltage to the plate and it's current ability is merely how well it can maintain the voltage from the rubbing of the water over the plates. The electrolyte is merely the activator to allow conduction of voltage through the battery. When the battery gets a charge it then goes through an electrolysis phase. This is a destructive phase for the battery because it depletes it's water in that process, hence the reason for replacing the water with distilled water<-Quasi crystalline water. There is not much oxygen in distilled water.




 So water has been the key all along. We mistook what water is really. It is why life needs water. It is a vehicle for oxygen which can be very energetic. It is also why water is sooooo plentiful around very big energetic channels. Think of the biggest water deposit ever and you have to start looking at quasars. Water is merely the vehicle. When the energy gets stripped off of waters oxygen it tends to condense into huge clouds. These clouds are even in outer space. [size=78%]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/quasar-largest-water-reservoir-_n_908487.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/quasar-largest-water-reservoir-_n_908487.html)[/size]


 To understand all of this we must understand what water is and how we can use it for unlimited energy. It is highly recyclable vehicle for oxygen and I suppose it is here because we have a very energetic center to our world, much like a quasar. Even the sun outputs water every second of every day. If we think about space as being a fluidic medium then we can understand how this process works. Planets are merely the collections of matter in a fluidic medium. That matter is bound to a certain potential when measured from space to earth. Space has very little charge to it because it is at it's lowest charge level. and charges like to bunch up. If we understand that energy likes to form networks we finally start to get a picture of these flows of charges. Highly organized and all connected in a dynamic network. The sun is merely a leaky conduit of this network and so are the planets that surround that sun. I suspect we are living through induced energy from this leak. The leak is only small and affords connection to the leak by presenting a potential for matter to cling to. This leak is only the catalyst for the inductive connection, it is not true conduction. I assume when conduction happens you get a supernova. Remember water is is repelled by magnetic fields and the sun has a huge magnetic event happening. It is the same as the quasar but on a much larger scale. So water as the vehicle ferries charges through the network and when it looses it's charge gets repelled away from the sun or quasar. This water I suspect is a result of the energy being sucked out of whatever waters base is. When that happens it turns to the water we know. In it's natural form it is only a vehicle with little interaction with matter, in fact we can not see it because it's density is so very extreme. It weakly repels even it's own kind and that is what gives water it's surface qualities. Water is a network when it is pure, like crystalline water. As soon as you add impurities it changes the network of the water and you get bulk water. Semi organized.


 I know this has turned into a diatribe but I thought it was important to give you more information to see this clearly.
 


 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 04:38:38 PM
Here is a video of my crystal cell that does not need water added to it to keep it alive. Its been running for over 2 months now without a drop of water added to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_islZjfjwk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_islZjfjwk)


Its been sealed up twice with electrical tape to protect it from the outside air. It just sits in a corner powering a LCD clock. The key to this cell is allowing the separator  to dry before putting the magnesium on.


The copper tube is wrapped in notebook paper. I put water on the notebook paper and then i rub Epsom salt and salt substitute into the paper. When the paper is wet it is transparent but when the water is gone its white again. I allow it to dry for about two days and then i wrap the magnesium around the dry paper and put electrical tape on it to apply pressure and to protect the cell. 


What I like about this cell is that it doesn't need water constantly added to it to keep it going.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 23, 2012, 05:11:58 PM
Nick I built you carbon battery and it did eat itself up. White puffs are all around the outside of the can and I bet it has eaten a good portion of the aluminum.


 On another note the aluminum that I treated with borax beforew putting it in a glass jar and the aluminum looks perfectly fine. It was my first attempt at the crystal cell and it is the only one that has not eaten itself up to date. I added zero water to the mix which was alum and epsom salts with a little salt substitute.


 The thing is it was very very wet for a long time and it was my best cell to date at 1.2 volts. I used graphite pencil leads that were very thick. I think they were 5mm across. When I dissected the cell the crystal formations almost connected. I think I took it apart to early and after 2-3 months it had not formed fully. But the grahite was destroyed by the salts. So maybe carbon would be better. The design was a glass jar with a helical wound aluminum wire around the inside of the jar. The electrode was graphite and I already went over the mix. Not one drop of water was added to the mix yet it was very wet. the crystals that formed were shaped like the epsoms salt and were very clear.
Title: What is a depolorizer?
Post by: b_rads on February 23, 2012, 05:13:03 PM
A while back the group at EF started talking about using depolorizers to increase current in their crystal cells.  This video shows some ongoing experiments of mine to help me understand this.  Hope you enjoy watching.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzarGi9orY0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzarGi9orY0)
 
Brad   :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 05:17:17 PM
@jbignes5


so what you're trying to say is to make water have less oxygen? Also put a protective layer on the electrodes too? sounds like a good step in the right direction.




You also mention something about using oil in water? I've made a cell before where water sat at the bottom and oil sat on top of water. The oil was used to keep the water from evaporating, but the crazy part was that the water still evaporated at a very slow rate. Don't know how water can evaporate through oil but it did, but it took a really long time to do so. I think the oil was olive oil.
Title: Re: What is a depolorizer?
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 05:24:47 PM
A while back the group at EF started talking about using depolorizers to increase current in their crystal cells.  This video shows some ongoing experiments of mine to help me understand this.  Hope you enjoy watching.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzarGi9orY0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzarGi9orY0)
 
Brad   :)


Really nice work, Glad to see the bio-plastic cells still going. I need to try to make a bio-plastic cell.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 23, 2012, 05:26:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpcJGn4vGM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpcJGn4vGM&feature=related)


lasersaber has done it already and should be comming out with a good how to to make the cell. He is of the same position that just the differential between the two metals is enough to the battery. Copper foil and magnesium in oil! the perfect capacitor and cell because of the metals we use. Once you get a flow of potential then the current will follow. Stabilizing the flow of potential is the problem here. But that is also a differ3ent approach as well. No water and no oxygen at all... Not even electrolysis can happen.... Hmmmm...


 Do you remember about electrolytic caps recharging? Well now we know what was going on. The same metals were used in an electrolytic cap and that could be the reason they were so small of a recharge. Plus oil drastically increases the short tolerances of the cell per Tesla.

 On the questions about water you want to get the water to have what it needs to hold the crystals together anything else will be squeezed out of the crystal by the crystal building process. Crystalline water has the bare essentials of oxygen. If you watch the video again about the water you showed you will see how this works. The boundry between oxidized water and non oxidized water is very clear. That is how the crystals grow and build. That layer where the crystalline water stops and the bulk water is should tell you all about the crystals abilities to build. Bulk water has impurities like the stuff the crystals matter is made out of. As soon as it settles and bonds the next layer of crystalline water forms and yet another layer is made. This happens all the time. Watch the video again...

 So if you want the water to have very little oxygen then how do you go about it? Well why not use crystals that have the crystalline water in it already. Apply heat and let it reset and walla!

 Also one way to perfectly seal something is to use heat to expand the oxygen and water in the device then cover it and allow it to cool. Very little oxygen or bulk water will be left and you will have a vacuum seal to boot. If it gets compromised then the seal would have been broken and no vacuum is left. This will let you know if the device has been unsealed.

 I'm watching laser sabers video's to see if he completes the oil cells. That should be awesome. He is one bright individual like many here....
Title: Re: What is a depolorizer?
Post by: b_rads on February 23, 2012, 06:23:29 PM

Really nice work, Glad to see the bio-plastic cells still going. I need to try to make a bio-plastic cell.

Ib:
I have not explained to anyone yet why I am looking at different materials to build a solid electrolyte, so it is now time to lay out what I am trying to achieve.
 
Last year in an exchanging PM's with "MIKROVOLT" I promised that I would not post any results of my experiments on his thread and I intend to keep that promise to him.  I hope you guys do not mind my posting this information here.
 
Last summer I stumbled onto something that I thought was pretty cool.  When trying to replicate a different type battery, I found out that I could consume the electrolyte without harming the metal electrodes.  Think galvanizing, Zinc has a lower Electronegitivity than the metals it is trying to protect.  It is called a sacrificial coating.  I have found that potassium and calcium has a lower electronegitivity than magnesium.  Mixing either of those two materials with plain white glue and placed between the copper and magnesium causes the glue mix to be consumed.  The glue mix acts as a sacrificial coating to the Mg.  The problem is replacing the mix after it has been consumed since it was glued to the metals and the resistance is pretty high in the cell.  If the boiplastic works, replacing the electrolyte should be very simple.  Working on the resistance is another thing.
 
Thanks to this group for letting me get this on record.
 
Brad
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 06:28:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpcJGn4vGM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpcJGn4vGM&feature=related)


lasersaber has done it already and should be comming out with a good how to to make the cell. He is of the same position that just the differential between the two metals is enough to the battery. Copper foil and magnesium in oil! the perfect capacitor and cell because of the metals we use. Once you get a flow of potential then the current will follow. Stabilizing the flow of potential is the problem here. But that is also a differ3ent approach as well. No water and no oxygen at all... Not even electrolysis can happen.... Hmmmm...


 Do you remember about electrolytic caps recharging? Well now we know what was going on. The same metals were used in an electrolytic cap and that could be the reason they were so small of a recharge. Plus oil drastically increases the short tolerances of the cell per Tesla.

 On the questions about water you want to get the water to have what it needs to hold the crystals together anything else will be squeezed out of the crystal by the crystal building process. Crystalline water has the bare essentials of oxygen. If you watch the video again about the water you showed you will see how this works. The boundry between oxidized water and non oxidized water is very clear. That is how the crystals grow and build. That layer where the crystalline water stops and the bulk water is should tell you all about the crystals abilities to build. Bulk water has impurities like the stuff the crystals matter is made out of. As soon as it settles and bonds the next layer of crystalline water forms and yet another layer is made. This happens all the time. Watch the video again...


Oh yea, the captret would charge up all by itself. I guess its time to make a dissimilar metal Captret or capacitor. With the glue cell i've seen it act like a capacitor when put in series with a battery.
Title: Re: What is a depolorizer?
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 06:35:29 PM

Ib:
I have not explained to anyone yet why I am looking at different materials to build a solid electrolyte, so it is now time to lay out what I am trying to achieve.
 
Last year in an exchanging PM's with "MIKROVOLT" I promised that I would not post any results of my experiments on his thread and I intend to keep that promise to him.  I hope you guys do not mind my posting this information here.
 
Last summer I stumbled onto something that I thought was pretty cool.  When trying to replicate a different type battery, I found out that I could consume the electrolyte without harming the metal electrodes.  Think galvanizing, Zinc has a lower Electronegitivity than the metals it is trying to protect.  It is called a sacrificial coating.  I have found that potassium and calcium has a lower electronegitivity than magnesium.  Mixing either of those two materials with plain white glue and placed between the copper and magnesium causes the glue mix to be consumed.  The glue mix acts as a sacrificial coating to the Mg.  The problem is replacing the mix after it has been consumed since it was glued to the metals and the resistance is pretty high in the cell.  If the boiplastic works, replacing the electrolyte should be very simple.  Working on the resistance is another thing.
 
Thanks to this group for letting me get this on record.
 
Brad


Oh my, this is great news. I think I remember you posting something like this before on EF but didn't hear much about it after that. having the electrolyte being consumed is great news, any more info on it?  :)  Thanks!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 23, 2012, 07:47:45 PM


 Here is a nice explanation of the problem of cathodic corrosion: http://www.cathodicprotection101.com/


"The free electrons travel through the metal path to the less active sites where the following reaction takes place: (oxygen gas converted to oxygen ion - by combining with the four free electrons - which combines with water to form hydroxyl ions)

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 23, 2012, 08:12:43 PM
Anyone else notice that magnesium corrodes to two different colors? one color is white which is magnesium-oxide but the other color is black and I don't what it is.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 24, 2012, 01:12:30 AM
I have been butting my head today against why my milliamps and millvolts equation doesnt give me the true milliwatts so I can divide by 1000 to get the true watts??? I can do the volts x amps equation all day and come out with the answers in watts(correct answer)but when I do it with the millivolts and milliamps to get milliwatts.The answers do not match.I took a year of physics back in college in 1971-1972.Learned about units and converting to units and back again.So its still a mystery to me at this point.


[size=78%]In the vitamin cells the magnesium corrodes to a brown color.Not white or black.So Im coming up with a different type of corrosion.[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 24, 2012, 01:22:35 AM
Finally just ordered some crystalline alum (2lbs!).
Great discussion guys, keep up the experiments!!
I may try treating some aluminum with borax to see if I can eliminate corrosion that way.
Happy experimenting all,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 24, 2012, 01:25:43 AM
I put together six more vitamin C cells last night and added vineagar to them .I did not have an eyedropper to measure out 2 or three drops each.So I ended up putting a capful in each cell.I punched a hole in one cell with a copper electrode so it started leaking vineagar.So I ended up with a mess that I put in another room and closed the door on to keep the smell confined to one room.I did stick each electrode into petro jelly to see if it would protect the metals.I recall that two of the cells were bubbling a little so maybe not enough petro jelly on it or some came off?I did not get a voltage reading.I had so much liquid I was disgusted with the whole thing.




I got ahold of a new AA battery from the store and measured 1.6 volts and for the amps(my meter only measures up to 200 ma) and would get OL(overload).The number that popped up before the OL came on was around 1984 mas.So we have a long ways to go here.


Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 24, 2012, 01:30:05 AM
In the asprinin cells the magnesium corrodes to a white color.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 24, 2012, 01:50:42 AM
I just checked my vinegar/vitamin C cells and got my highest reading of 1.67 volts off of one cell.Thats the highest reading yet.I managed to read lower voltages off of 3 other cells.But the electrode moved on one other cell so its still pretty wet.In one cell the copper and magnesium eletrodes had touched and the magnesium was corroded a brown color once again.On two cells I ended up reinserting the eletrodes.Will look at it again tomorrow.My theory is that the vinegar will have enough water evaporated out of it in two weeks so I can finish building these cells




I still have two LEDS burning since last night off of two different panels.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 24, 2012, 02:03:27 AM
I know this is off topic but you might be interested to see it.





For a five dollar donation you can help man start mining the moon for water by the year2020.Bill Stone is the man  to do this.
http://www.rockethub.com/projects/3822-shackleton-energy-company-propellant-depots (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/3822-shackleton-energy-company-propellant-depots)
triffid


Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 24, 2012, 03:19:47 PM
I know this is off topic but you might be interested to see it.
For a five dollar donation you can help man start mining the moon for water by the year2020.Bill Stone is the man  to do this.
http://www.rockethub.com/projects/3822-shackleton-energy-company-propellant-depots (http://www.rockethub.com/projects/3822-shackleton-energy-company-propellant-depots)
triffid
@ triffid: Come on man. For $5 we could buy more supplies for experiments!! We have plenty of water down here already... Sounds like the man who sold the moon kinda.
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 24, 2012, 03:24:08 PM
Finally just ordered some crystalline alum (2lbs!).
Great discussion guys, keep up the experiments!!
I may try treating some aluminum with borax to see if I can eliminate corrosion that way.
Happy experimenting all,
PC


ok the best way to deposit the borax is to use a super saturated solution of borax and water then heat up you aluminum and spray it on the aluminum. It will turn a puffy white coating then heat it up in the oven and bake it on low about 200 degrees for 1/2-1 hour.. Thats what I did and it turned out to be the best coating I have ever had.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 24, 2012, 07:59:33 PM
Bought another 18 egg count carton for my next big push.With the crushed vitamin C pills.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: Tenbatsu on February 24, 2012, 09:32:33 PM
triffid, you might be interested in this, www.purebulk.com is selling vitamin-c powder 50% off until february 26th.

This might help if you want to experiment with a larger cell and save you the time of crushing the pills by hand.

I'm not affiliated with this company in anyway, I just saw this today since I shop there occasionally and thought it might be helpful.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 25, 2012, 12:20:48 AM
Thank you ten.I had never thought of vitamin C powder.That is good to know.I just made another 18 cell count panel with vitamin C pills crushed.I made six cells at a time.I started with the six back cells and finished with them moved forward to the next six finished with them and moved forward to the last six.If I make only six cells at a time I move a little slower and put a little more care into it it seems.So I made 18 cells six at a time.I really want to see 2 mas come out of this panel in the beginning.I used the 18 count egg carton I bought today to make them in.I will check their voltages sometime tomorrow.About 24 hours later and plan to seal them with wax also.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 25, 2012, 12:26:19 AM
I have been wondering about tumeric powder(its a spice).Also nitcotine?Sound crazy?Maybe it is but cigerette butts have fibers in them.They can be found everywhere.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 25, 2012, 01:37:04 AM
I have been wondering about tumeric powder(its a spice).Also nitcotine?Sound crazy?Maybe it is but cigerette butts have fibers in them.They can be found everywhere.triffid


I like the way you think!  :D


I've been trying everything under the sun. I even tried using metal polish, its suppose to clean and protect the metal but it only corrode the magnesium away . The irony is killing me.  :)


I also tired honey, it works ok but give little amps.


corn-syrup was ok, .


WD-40 was bad, it tarnish copper really badly.


rubbing alcohol works ok but evaporates quickly.


dirt-water was ok, but it contains water so its very corrosive to metal.


sun screen is ok.


I have hundreds of different cells with different mixtures of different things. The ok cells are not great but the corrode much slower than others. There is one electrolyte of many that is interesting, it corrodes the magnesium black but the magnesium doesn't flake of like normal corrosion would. The electrolyte is clothes detergent. As soon as you remove the magnesium from  the clothes detergent the black layer will start to turn white, which means oxygen is starting to attack it.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 25, 2012, 02:06:38 AM

ok the best way to deposit the borax is to use a super saturated solution of borax and water then heat up you aluminum and spray it on the aluminum. It will turn a puffy white coating then heat it up in the oven and bake it on low about 200 degrees for 1/2-1 hour.. Thats what I did and it turned out to be the best coating I have ever had.

Thanks Bignes5, I will try that when I start working on larger more 'permanent' cells. What kind of smells/toxic gasses is that likely to make cooking aluminum and borax?? (The missus is gonna love that BTW LOL!!!) Maybe just dip and microwave? (j/k guys heh heh...).
Gotta go, will post more this weekend.
More cells, more tests, more fun!!

Happy experimenting,
PC

EDIT: @ IB: Most laundry detergent contain some kind of water softener doesn't it?? That is what Borax is. Makes sense to me anyways.. :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 25, 2012, 02:19:15 AM
Thanks Bignes5, I will try that when I start working on larger more 'permanent' cells. What kind of smells/toxic gasses is that likely to make cooking aluminum and borax?? (The missus is gonna love that BTW LOL!!!) Maybe just dip and microwave? (j/k guys heh heh...).
Gotta go, will post more this weekend.
More cells, more tests, more fun!!

Happy experimenting,
PC


 When I did the treatment it did not emit any gases that I could detect. After all it is just borax. We started to use borax because it forms the oxide better on aluminum and repairs any breaks on the fly. Just like inside of an electrolytic capacitor. Like I said I was using my first cells for 3-4 months with zero corrosion of the aluminum electrode. Now that wouldn't be surprising  if it wasn't imersed in a liquid. The liquid was epsom salts and the other ingredients that I mentioned.


 I have to say that I was extremely surprised to see the aluminum in such great condition when I inspected it closely. It was hard to see through all the crystals that had formed around the inside of the jar. I had thought it was completely formed but to my astonishment it wasn't. I would say that after 3-4 months it was maybe 70% formed with zero pits or discolorization. In fact most of the aluminum looked shinny and new.


 I have a picture of when I put it together.


http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/100_0348.jpg


 And this is of it running my led head unit from a shake up flashlight.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/100_0364.jpg

 Please understand that I had 4-5 cells all different at that time running that led unit.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/100_0347.jpg

 This was just after it was created sitting cooling. For some reason when it was hot it had less voltage then after it has cooled and set for a good bit. it's slowly climbed up in voltage and settled to about 1.4-1.6 volts. It would vary from day to day. Now some major points to follow here. The jar was glass. <- this is not recommended because it isolates the aluminum electrode from the environmental energy. I think this is why the cell varied from day to day. It was almost like a quasi leyden jar. I think for optimal performance you should have the electrode exterior so that is grounds via induction.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 25, 2012, 03:44:08 AM
This is a video showing two types of corrosion of magnesium. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF60fW3NbUA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF60fW3NbUA)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 25, 2012, 03:52:31 PM
 I suspect they are both oxides. One explanation was that high concentrations of iron was in the water. Here is a video of it while making ingots:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqhaYj78G1M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqhaYj78G1M)


 This was from melting the magnesium in aluminum. Most likely an impurity in the magensium + oxygen.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 25, 2012, 06:04:54 PM
When I was in school 35 years ago I read about dry Tide detergent being used to separate the gases from the atmosphere.You pack enough dry tide in a 32  foot column(plastic hose to you and me) put slight pressure on it .Mixed air enters one end and unmixed air exits the other end.I heard too that goldfish can live in a tide/ water solution.Might be misinformation being passed on to me.But I would try TIDE.I thought the fibers in cigarette butts could be made conductive and serve as electrodes?Half my vineagar/vitamin C cells are dead today(3 out of six).I think too much corrosion.The survivors are still making 1.5 volts.The new vitamin C cells are still drying.The panel made with asprin(six cells) is losing power 5.0 volts and down to .020mas.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 02:42:08 AM
Just tested the voltages on the new vitamin C cells(18 count) that I put together yesterday.I get 1.38 to 1.6 volts.Tomorrow I will seal the cells with wax and test the whole panel for volts and amps.Most of the cells read 1.4-1.45 volts.One more cell on the vinegar/vitamin C died.The magnesium electrode broke in half.So the vineagar likes to corrode the magnesium metal.I get a brown colored corrosion of the magnesium metal in the vitamin C cells and the vineagar/vitamin C cells.But the magnesium breaks only in the ones with vineagar added.




What this tells me that there must be buffers in the vitamin C pills that limit the corrosive action of the asorbic acid.I just read the label again and read that it contains cellulose of plant origin.


There are two ways to limit the corrosive action of acids.Put something directly on the metal or put buffers in the acid itself.

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 02:51:13 AM
Here are the total ingredients of the vitamin C Im using :Ascorbic acid,vegetable stearic acid,,cellulose(plant origin),magnesium silcate,silica,hypromellose,dicalcium phosphate,rose hips,vegetable magnesium stearate.






vegetable stearic acid would be a third acid in these cells.Ascorbic acid,fumeric acid,and now stearic acid.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 02:56:16 AM
Generally applications of stearic acid exploit its bifunctional character, with a polar head group that can be attached to metal cations and a nonpolar chain that confers solubility in organic solvents. The combination leads to uses as a surfactant and softening agent. Stearic acid undergoes the typical reactions of saturated carboxylic acids, notably reduction to stearyl alcohol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stearyl_alcohol), and esterification with a range of alcohols.[/size][edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stearic_acid&action=edit&section=3)]Soaps, cosmetics, detergentsStearic acid is mainly used in the production of detergents, soaps, and cosmetics such as shampoos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shampoo) and shaving cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving_cream) products. Soaps are not made directly from stearic acid, but indirectly by saponification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponification) of triglycerides consisting of stearic acid esters. Esters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ester) of stearic acid with ethylene glycol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol), glycol stearate and glycol distearate, are used to produce a pearly effect in shampoos, soaps, and other cosmetic products. They are added to the product in molten form and allowed to crystallize under controlled conditions. Detergents are obtained from amides and quaternary alkylammonium derivatives of stearic acid.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stearic_acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stearic_acid)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 03:06:52 AM
A chemistry page on acids and their buffers
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch17/mixtures.php (http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch17/mixtures.php)
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 03:08:43 AM
Although a single drop of 2 M HCl reduces the pH of 100 mL of water by 4 pH units (from 7 to 3), there is no change in the pH of the buffer when a drop of 2 M HCl is added to 100 mL of this buffer solution. Thus, the pH of the buffer solution is truly "buffered" against the effect of small amounts of acid or base.
Buffers can be made from a weak acid and its conjugate base, such as acetic acid and a salt of the acetate ion.
HOAc(aq)+H2O(l)(http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch17/graphics/equilibr.gif)H3O+(aq)+OAc-(aq)weak acidconjugate base
Buffers can also be made from a weak base and its conjugate acid, such as ammonia and a salt of the ammonium ion.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 03:11:27 AM
Sodium acetate is the buffer for me to use in the vineagar cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 26, 2012, 02:52:21 PM



 Could someone with magnesium try just epsom salts melted on the magnesium. Epsom salts alone no water added. I think what we have here would be the other perfect rebuilder of magnesium. Like aluminum with borax, I suspect epsom is the repair mechanism for magnesium.


 This is my thinking on this. When I used the borax with aluminum and added the other components like the alum (electrolyte)+epsoms I had most of the metal covered. covered in the way of aluminum+borax(protector), alum+epsoms(electrolyte) and the positive was grahite. Any corrosion was quickly repaired by the borax. Hopefully this will be the same way with magnesium+epsoms, seeing that epsoms is magnesium


 Ok If we look at the wiki about Water of crystalization and read what we know so far we will understand how these cells operate...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_water

 "Water of crystallization is stabilized by electrostatic attractions" and if we look at what a capacitor really is then we can see how we are doing these cells.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor
And this is the definition we need about capacitors: "When there is a potential difference across the conductors, a static electric field develops across the dielectric, causing positive charge to collect on one plate and negative charge on the other plate. Energy is stored in the electrostatic field. An ideal capacitor is characterized by a single constant value, capacitance, measured in farads. This is the ratio of the electric charge on each conductor to the potential difference between them."

 I suspect that when aluminum is used the borax is attracted to the potential of the aluminum. With magnesium it should be the same for epsoms. Although the attraction is slight in a solution it should do very well to surround the material we want to protect. and specific crystal structure should arise from the addition of the alum. this structure is now based on the whole unit and a new type of whole unit crystal will form.

 If I am correct then we could make a capacitor with these components and not have to worry about corrosion. Just change the dielectric to oil and have the two different plates with zero water and zero oxygen! A self powered capacitor will come out of it. But I suspect this cap will only be useful for pulsed applications and it will be super tuff when compared to reverse voltages or charging because there is nothing to brake down like electrolysis and the kind. If oxygen and water are a concern then the oil could be impregnated with a desiccant that can retain the water to a degree.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 04:06:06 PM
I think IB2 already did magnesium inside a copper tube with just epson salts no water crimped the copper tube to get pressure.He got some volts out of that.No molten epson salts,just dry crystals.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 04:16:41 PM
Generally applications of stearic acid exploit its bifunctional character, with a polar head group that can be attached to metal cations and a nonpolar chain .There is a clue in that sentence.A polar headgroup of atoms that can be attached to metal cations .The stearic acid molecule looks like a long tube with an acid group attached.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 04:29:45 PM
Heres an intestering fact about vitamin C.It actually can provide some protection against oxygen.
Ascorbate usually acts as an antioxidant. It typically reacts with oxidants of the reactive oxygen species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_oxygen_species), such as the hydroxyl radical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl_radical) formed from hydrogen peroxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide). Such radicals are damaging to animals and plants at the molecular level due to their possible interaction with nucleic acids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleic_acids), proteins, and lipids. Sometimes these radicals initiate chain reactions. Ascorbate can terminate these chain radical reactions by electron transfer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_transfer). Ascorbic acid is special because it can transfer a single electron, owing to the stability of its own radical ion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_ion) called "semidehydroascorbate", dehydroascorbate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroascorbate). The net reaction is:[/size]RO• + C6H7O
−
6[/size]
→ ROH + C6H6O6-•.[/font][/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 04:34:58 PM
So antioxidants in your ingredients for your cells will protect the metals therein from oxygen.And tumeric powder is an antioxidant.The spice I was wondering about earlier.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 26, 2012, 05:08:17 PM




 Here is something rather interesting that I discovered.


 Venetian priest and physicist Giuseppe Zamboni developed the first leak proof high voltage "dry" batteries with terminal voltages of over 2000 Volts. They consisted of thousands of small metallic foil discs of tin or an alloy of copper and zinc called "tombacco", separated by paper discs stacked in glass tubes. The technology was not well understood at the time and while Zamboni consciously avoided the use of any conventional corrosive aqueous electrolyte in the cells, hence the name "dry" battery, the electrolyte was actually provided by the humidity in the paper discs and a variety of experimental greasy acidic pulps spread thinly on the foils to minimise polarisation effects. Although the battery voltage was very high, the internal resistance was thousands of megohms so the current drawn from the batteries was about 10-(-)9th amps, limiting the battery's potential applications. One notable application however was a primitive electrostatic clock mechanism in which a pendulum was attracted towards the high voltage terminal of a Zamboni pile by the electrostatic force between the pendulum and the terminal. When the pendulum touched the terminal it acquired the same charge as the terminal and was consequently deflected away from it towards the opposite pole of another similar pile from which, by a similar mechanism it was deflected back again, thus maintaining the oscillation. The current drain or discharge rate of the batteries was so low as to be undetectable with instruments available at the time and it was thought that the pendulum was a "perpetual electromotor". In fact Zamboni primary batteries have been known to last for over 50 years before becoming completely discharged!"

 And that led me to this: http://www.physics.ox.ac.uk/history.asp?page=Exhibit1

 And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_dioxide

 And this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tombac
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 05:40:17 PM
I posted something about that here before.There was one made in 1840 and its powering a clock today.Molten sulfur was used to seal it against  water in the air.Something I could use one day instead of wax.You are right they are interesting and are thought to have been made  with honey as an ingredient.Honey never spoils.Open a jar of it and it just crystallizes.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 26, 2012, 05:49:54 PM
My two postings were on page 30 of this thread.Here is one of them:

[size=8pt !important]
Posts: 2556


 

[/size][/font]



Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells (http://www.overunity.com/11653/ibpointless2-crystal-cells/msg312484/#msg312484)
« Reply #443 on: February 11, 2012, 09:44:36 PM »
[size=0.85em]
Quote (http://www.overunity.com/11653/ibpointless2-crystal-cells/435/post/quote/312484/last_msg/313963/)
[/size][/font]
[/b]

Here is something similar to what we are trying to do.One of them has been running since 1840.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile)
triffid


 or silver paper smeared with [/size]manganese oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_oxide)[/font][/size] and [/size]honey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey)[/font][/size] might be used[/size]

No crystals mentioned but honey does crystalize at a certain point(age) and honey is thought to be used in their construction.
Zamboni piles have output [/size]potentials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential)[/font][/size] in the [/size]kilovolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilovolt)[/font][/size] range, but current output in the [/size]nanoampere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanoampere)[/font][/size] range. The famous [/size]Oxford Electric Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell)[/font][/size] which has been ringing continuously since [/size]1840 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1840)[/font][/size] is thought to be powered by a pair of Zamboni piles.[/size][3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile#cite_note-2)


[/li]
[/list]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 26, 2012, 05:58:46 PM

A video showing me getting voltage from just one magnesium ribbon with no noticeable electrolyte. The magnesium made a semiconductor oxide layer that i can hook up to a meter and get voltage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDIejZeo6_A


Let me know what you guys think of this. This cell should give no voltage because it should be shorted out but since the oxide layer is their i can get voltage.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 26, 2012, 06:28:43 PM
 Now think about it. with 2k volts and nano amps for current we could charge a cap and then disruptively discharge it via Tesla's method to draw in that current we need into a bifilar coil like the pancake coil. This would give the voltage two things here. We could lower the voltage and increase the amps via transformer action. One that would not effect the source potential at all. Then we could rectify this into dc or leave in the ac state.!!!!


 The operator here would be to draw the potential from the battery into an oil capacitor then discharge it onto a very very low self inductance coil to harvest as we please the discharges.


 Tesla was known to say that I can charge up a condenser and extract any amount of horsepower from that condenser's discharge via induction.


 I'll see if I can find the exact quote.

 *edit* Ok found the place he went on record saying that quote:

http://books.google.com/books?id=KRg9HWakBmQC&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=tesla+gave+westinghouse+new+soft+iron+for+transformers&source=bl&ots=0SjD0CgTBB&sig=oZ-dIBnH9jnWaT_688Dtm0YWvso&hl=en&ei=upTTTszED6Xf0QGl3qxL&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&sqi=2&ved=0CFQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=tesla%20gave%20westinghouse%20new%20soft%20iron%20for%20transformers&f=false

 Page 68 at the top starting with Counselor question...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 26, 2012, 07:00:05 PM
A video showing me getting voltage from just one magnesium ribbon with no noticeable electrolyte. The magnesium made a semiconductor oxide layer that i can hook up to a meter and get voltage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDIejZeo6_A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDIejZeo6_A)


Let me know what you guys think of this. This cell should give no voltage because it should be shorted out but since the oxide layer is their i can get voltage.


 Yes the voltage you are seeing is only the difference between the magnesium and the alligator clip. The base charge of the magnesium is separated by the oxide which is non conductive as per your description. This is creating a capacitance that is self powered by the potential difference of the two electrodes. In this case magnesium and whatever the clip is made out of!


 You know I was thinking that what if the static battery is like all one potential. The stacking is static inductive connections. Much like a coil of wire without the real connection between. Maybe they are additive from disk to disk. Lets say magnesium disks and copper disks. One side is magnesium only separated by paper and oil. Would each plate be additive to the next inductively coupled disk. Ie 1.6v+1.6v=3.2v first pair then the next disk would be inductively energized with the previous disk of 3.6v+1.6v=5.2v and this will continue on till you ended it. The masses must be balanced though. Magnesium weight must balance to the copper side weight.

 Ok here try this get a copper strip just like your magnesium and put a paper layer in between, oil that baby up and see what voltage and amps you get. If that doesn't work then try it without the paper in between just the oil or grease.

I think the jist of it is to connect the two sides via the last disk in the pile and inductively connect the disks through the pile. When you short out the pile it flows inductively to the storage device(cap).
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 26, 2012, 07:59:44 PM
@ IB: Yeah, I think Jbignes5 is right. If you were using magnesium probes you would probably get zeros. It does lead to a lot of interesting ideas regarding how to use an oxide layer as a seperator rather than introducing a new material (like paper, whatever...). The blackened Mg seems to be stable/non-corroding? Sounds like that works. Oil works. Controlled oxidation may be a way to 'keep it simple'?
Do you get any readings with copper touching the Mg oxidization directly? I like the paper/oil dip idea that J suggested..
@ Jbignes5: We need to figure out which caps are going to work well on this low voltage, micro(pico?)amperage scale. I keep thinking that transistors would have to be in there to let current flow until the cells drop to a certain voltage, then cut them out of the charging until they naturally charge up enough to 'flow' current into the circuit again. Example: When the cell voltage is over 0.5v allow current to flow, when the cell voltage reaches 0.5v cut that cell out from charging the cap, when voltage levels reach 1.0v (again) the current is allowed to flow (until the voltage drops to 0.5v again, etc...).
I haven't done my homework so I'm not sure there is such a thing (yet)... Everything these days is designed to go FAST and we're looking for something that goes S-L-O-W right? Back to handmade caps maybe? I haven't had time to even start reading the captret thread... Real life is really busy heh heh.
Using Tesla style tech is a good thing to keep in mind too!
Gonna go make some cells I think... I may have some free days next week too! :)

Happy experimenting!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 26, 2012, 08:08:59 PM
The masses must be balanced though. Magnesium weight must balance to the copper side weight.
 
I think that the electrode surface areas and thicknesses would be more important than material mass. Maybe there is an ideal weight ratio though? Layers of foils packed in-between oiled paper in a (glass?) tube. Or in a paper towel roll, or something... How thick is a layer of zinc paint? Would pressure bring higher current/voltage readings like we are finding in some of our experiments I wonder...
The additive voltage idea shouldn't be hard to test right? Who' wants to build a Zamboni pile first? Or has one of you already started?? ;)
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 26, 2012, 08:37:54 PM
@ IB: Yeah, I think Jbignes5 is right. If you were using magnesium probes you would probably get zeros. It does lead to a lot of interesting ideas regarding how to use an oxide layer as a seperator rather than introducing a new material (like paper, whatever...). The blackened Mg seems to be stable/non-corroding? Sounds like that works. Oil works. Controlled oxidation may be a way to 'keep it simple'?
Do you get any readings with copper touching the Mg oxidization directly? I like the paper/oil dip idea that J suggested..
@ Jbignes5: We need to figure out which caps are going to work well on this low voltage, micro(pico?)amperage scale. I keep thinking that transistors would have to be in there to let current flow until the cells drop to a certain voltage, then cut them out of the charging until they naturally charge up enough to 'flow' current into the circuit again. Example: When the cell voltage is over 0.5v allow current to flow, when the cell voltage reaches 0.5v cut that cell out from charging the cap, when voltage levels reach 1.0v (again) the current is allowed to flow (until the voltage drops to 0.5v again, etc...).
I haven't done my homework so I'm not sure there is such a thing (yet)... Everything these days is designed to go FAST and we're looking for something that goes S-L-O-W right? Back to handmade caps maybe? I haven't had time to even start reading the captret thread... Real life is really busy heh heh.
Using Tesla style tech is a good thing to keep in mind too!
Gonna go make some cells I think... I may have some free days next week too! :)

Happy experimenting!
PC


You got it all wrong. The Zomboni pile is all voltage. It seems the metals are additive. So how hard would it be to charge a cap with 2k volts? Then discharge the cap via Tesla's style of disruptive discharge into a bifilar coil with zero self inductance. The only thing that will be the problem is resistance then which doesn't seem to bother high voltage apps. Think of a pile that has millions of layers all perfectly separated by oil. It would be the source Tesla needed but couldn't find. He has to use conventional generators to do that. In our case 20-40k volt cells could be made to charge a cap and let it discharge across a gap into the coil..
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 27, 2012, 12:30:41 AM
I finished sealing my second 18 cell panel with wax.I hooked all the cells up with wires with alligator clips.In the beginning I saw 14 volts which settled down to 11.85 volts.Then for amps.I saw at first 1.89mas which settled down to 1.55mas.So 11.85 volts and 1.55 mas is what I finished at.So 18.37 milliwatts is what I ended up with.Triffid


I tested my six cells in series vitamin C cells,4.35 volts and .110 mas.Then an magnesium electrode broke off .So I spoke too soon when I said one hadn't broke off yet.


Just a general observation,The vitamin C cells are twice as many amps as any other cells I have made.
At two weeks of age the aspirin cells are down to .005mas and vitamin C is at .110mas.Volts are about the same.
Maybe the silica is responsible?Or the three acids present?And their buffers?


I know heat will recharge them.So give me a hot car on a summers day.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 27, 2012, 01:37:29 AM
To recap vineagar is too strong for my cells,If I can find a buffer to protect the magnesium from the acid then maybe I can build higher voltage cells.It so Happens I have a replacement for vineagar.I found it last week when a quart of buttermilk went on sale for 59 cents.Not wanting to miss out on a bargain and because I do like buttermilk.I bought It.It does not contain vineagar but it tastes like it has it in there.Of course it has casin in it too(a form of glue).It is highly buffered I would believe.So I guess my next attempt will be buttermilk/vitamin C cells to take the place of my vineagar/vitamin C cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: Thurid on February 27, 2012, 03:30:47 AM
Hello all! This is my first post here on these forums. I hope I can add something useful to the discussion.

I am a musician and recently started teaching myself basic electronics and electric theory via the internet. In my online studies I ran across this project on youtube and it really caught my eye. I have a few thoughts that might spark an idea in someone with a much greater understanding of these concepts than myself.

Has anyone tested the solar potential of these crystal cells? My thought is that an anthocyanin and titanium dioxide such as is found in solar panels in addition to light bouncing around inside an already inherently electrical crystal structure might be fairly powerful if correctly combined.

According to Wikipedia:

"In ceramic glazes titanium dioxide acts as an opacifier and seeds crystal formation."

Just thought I'd throw that out there in case it's somehow useful. I'll be quiet now leave the advanced stuff to the people who know what they're talking about. :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 27, 2012, 04:27:43 AM
Hello all! This is my first post here on these forums. I hope I can add something useful to the discussion.

I am a musician and recently started teaching myself basic electronics and electric theory via the internet. In my online studies I ran across this project on youtube and it really caught my eye. I have a few thoughts that might spark an idea in someone with a much greater understanding of these concepts than myself.

Has anyone tested the solar potential of these crystal cells? My thought is that an anthocyanin and titanium dioxide such as is found in solar panels in addition to light bouncing around inside an already inherently electrical crystal structure might be fairly powerful if correctly combined.

According to Wikipedia:

"In ceramic glazes titanium dioxide acts as an opacifier and seeds crystal formation."

Just thought I'd throw that out there in case it's somehow useful. I'll be quiet now leave the advanced stuff to the people who know what they're talking about. :)


Welcome to the forum!  :D


Yes, seeing if a cell responds to light is always on the top of the list to try. A metal-oxide layer can make a cell respond to light, here's a video of someone doing just that. [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Edw99PgzQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Edw99PgzQ)[/size]



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 27, 2012, 04:46:24 AM
I think that the electrode surface areas and thicknesses would be more important than material mass. Maybe there is an ideal weight ratio though? Layers of foils packed in-between oiled paper in a (glass?) tube. Or in a paper towel roll, or something... How thick is a layer of zinc paint? Would pressure bring higher current/voltage readings like we are finding in some of our experiments I wonder...
The additive voltage idea shouldn't be hard to test right? Who' wants to build a Zamboni pile first? Or has one of you already started?? ;)
PC


 I think maybe Tesla was right. if we understand that masses have a certain value of charge. Now take the same mass but inflate it to have a greater surface area and it displaces more of the medium, ie has more value. I read it somewhere before in Tesla's writing. He believed that with equal masses to same electrodes, one with a bigger surface area will have more charge. The resonance Tesla was talking about wasn't a frequency thing it was more of a mass thing and surface area.


 Take this example for instance. 14 gauge wire and 30 gauge wire, With equal weight we get two different results when a field is exposed to the same masses. What has changed is the surface area each presents to the field. With the heavier gauge wire you get lower voltage but higher current. With the 30 gauge you get higher voltage and lower amps. All of this with the same weight of mass.. Surface area is the key and balanced masses is another key. The balanced mass is the resonance he was talking about.


 I hope that helps..
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 27, 2012, 07:07:20 AM
I made a couple new cells today (Durham's and epsom salt) but couldn't test them because the battery died on my VOM (LMAO!!!). So I consoled myself by purchasing three caps online (ebay) for a buck a piece (minus shipping which isn't too bad).
So maybe these will come in handy?
10,000 uf 25v
18,00uf 19v
25,000uf 6v
They look pretty good sized and were low voltage. Vintage GE :)
Anyhow, happy experimenting all!
PC
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 27, 2012, 03:26:28 PM
I should be starting the Zamboni pile soon. My first attempt will be a small scale test. I think I understand the process enough to get it working. It is designed to pull the charges trough the disks via induction.


 I'll post more soon...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 27, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
 Nickz I wanted to quote John B. from the other board if that is ok. I just think this might help you to defend your position.


 "Your right it's boring to go over this here.
 In most cases , light can be considered moving instantaneously, the finite speed of light has noticeable effects. Is the universe moving or is it standing still? Nick, I understand what your trying to say but is there any good answer for you that you would except, except I'm moving around the source."

 In most cases? In all cases if you understand the phenomena of light propagation you know there is a medium out there that light "Travels" through. The only time light travels is when the potential is so intense at that frequency that it causes the medium we float in to polarize. This is an alignment of the medium and yes is near infinite in speed. It is near instant because the polarization moves one time trough the medium to align up and that is all the movement of light does. It doesn't flow in the traditional sense.



 Let me give you an example.


 If we understand we are in the medium the only movement that the conductors have to move is laterally to the plane of the source of the light. Picture a circle. Now draw a point from the center to some point out of the circle. In order for the light to travel the medium itself moves. This movement is polarization and it acts like a zipper. The only real movement is the medium aligning to the previous mediums movement. The light hasn't changed in one way but the medium has changed.


 The medium is the part we are ignoring. No medium and there is no light, no radiant energy. Nothing!


"The Cells: The noise is generated in the cells as shot noise it can be measured with the correct filters it almost corresponds to gravity waves but it can be thermal and conductance fluctuations, or I/F noise that is what I'm talking about as I mention to Jim. It is because we do not have controlled process or refinement of what we are putting together for cells. But I do have cells that keep working here, and Marcus Reid cells keep working too."

 What I suspect is the noise is the charges that are in our planetary system flowing into the source that is in our planet. Take the circle I had you imagine with the line going from the center to exterior of the circle. Now draw another circle around our original cirlc but make sure you connect the exterior line to the new circle. This is our planet system. It is a recycling system. What goes up will come back to the source only to recycle again into the system. The going up is a conversion process from the charges that collect to our source potential in the center of all the circles. Heat is the vehicle to go up via convection. When the charges get to the upper strata of our atmosphere it stops because there is no more matter to interact with then condenses into the ionosphere. The vehicle for transfer was created when our planetary potential formed. This radiant network around our mass is there because of mater. Gases, water, rock and soils all contribute to the radiant network around our planet. So this vehicle that charges use to rise is the space in between mater. And as charges go up they impart heat all the way up loosing the charges as it goes. Once the charges have depleted then the vehicle gets heavy and falls back down twords the source point in our planet. This is what water is! The vehicle with little charge left. Only enough to bind real matter to the vehicle. Hydrogen and oxygen combine and we have condensation as well after that forming. This is what rain is. As the vehicle attains enough weight is flows faster and faster to the potential in our planet. The vehicle is all but invisible to our sight and senses but none the less is very real. Gravity is proof of this effect and is caused by the slight charge that the vehicle still has. as it drives past us it gently tugs on our mater.
 John is probably very correct about it being gravity based as I think the crystals we are using are getting hit and provide us with a potential for our batteries we are trying to build here.

 "I do not think that it is impossible to light 3 Led's for many months, Chuck and I have been lighting 6 Led's for about 4 months now. The only thing is the oscillator driving them. I have said before how the oscillator does this as it works as a pump. Oscillators can be tricky when your talking about BJT circuit as the transistor can add extra energy in noise, so the real test is to lower this frequency down with off the shelf parts and not some cooked diodes that are special. I know that you have worked on this BJT and parts are a problem for you so I thought I would make this simple. I might wind the transformer in the patent to see what the results are. If I wanted to get extra I would do it open loop without the use of the Toridal Transformer. I have not played with this yet but I'm going to. But it is all standard engineering here and no Voodoo. So I guess I will proceed with this."

 Speaking of transistors lets look at this and try to incorporate it into the design:

http://underservice.org/files/magnetic_amplifiers.pdf
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 27, 2012, 08:31:40 PM
  The point of the discussion was to add that light is not "traveling" as we are being taught. Nothing is "moving"  there is a "Polarization of the medium", but no movement involved from point A to point B.
This is all very difficult to explain, and maybe boring to some, as we are still being brainwashed into thinking that sunlight is traveling through the solar system and outer space to get to us from our Sun.  Which is not the case. 
   What I'm trying to say is that in the same way that light is polarized in our planets photosphere to provide what we erroneously call "SunLight" (which should be called Earthlight, instead) as it is created here and not on the sun. Therefore does not 'Travel" to get here as thought,  which is still being taught in our schools.  NASA knows better, as a rocket going towards the Sun, will be in complete darkness after only a relatively short time that it takes for it to clear the photosphere of the planet, where light is created. Beyond that there is no light or heat (going toward the Sun) until within a couple of thousand miles away from it.
  The point above is to compare how some cells may be able to POLARIZE energy out of the surrounding ambient, in a similar way as polarized light is created on our planet, and does not to travel from the Sun to get here.
 
  No need to argue with text book examples,  I've heard it all before.

                                                                  NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 27, 2012, 10:11:24 PM
I just said the same thing nick rofl...

 But I would like to say one thing. This polarization is all the way from the sun. Thats why solar cells work in space. The polarizing is all through the medium until it is polarized with mater then it discontinues. Mater interrupts the polarization of the medium because it displaces the medium inside of the matter and the matter is so closely bound to that that it manifests on the surface of that mater. If mater wasn't there the light would go on forever. But the speed of the polarization has a limit in lights case. It is after all the reason we can look backwards in time by merely looking up. Light is merely a manifestation of a resonance(frequency) in the medium of space. If light had no limit it would all blurr together and we wouldn't have a way to tell time. So ultimately light does have it's limits.

 The medium of space on the other hand has no limit. It's response is near unity. Nothing could ever be faster the zed. Zero point would be so infinite it would be like poking a balloon. You thought the atomic bomb was big. Try releasing all the pressure in the universe in a single fraction of an instant. But that will never be able to be accomplished. The medium of space can not create the kind of unzipping that created this hollow we live in. Yes I said it. There was no big bang. Is was the advent of a bubble in the black hole we live in. We must live in a Black hole because there is a vacuum in space. That vacuum is self evident that we are in a container. However big that container is, it must be beyond belief at the size of this container.

 We know how to create a vacuum on earth so it must be the same process out there. *Points up* The problem is I think this container is steadily growing. Ever since the unzipping it has expanded like a balloon. This is why the Universe is speeding up. This is why the distances are growing steadily between galaxies. The bubble is expanding.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 27, 2012, 11:19:13 PM
  The point of the discussion was to add that light is not "traveling" as we are being taught. Nothing is "moving"  there is a "Polarization of the medium", but no movement involved from point A to point B.
This is all very difficult to explain, and maybe boring to some, as we are still being brainwashed into thinking that sunlight is traveling through the solar system and outer space to get to us from our Sun.  Which is not the case. 
   What I'm trying to say is that in the same way that light is polarized in our planets photosphere to provide what we erroneously call "SunLight" (which should be called Earthlight, instead) as it is created here and not on the sun. Therefore does not 'Travel" to get here as thought,  which is still being taught in our schools.  NASA knows better, as a rocket going towards the Sun, will be in complete darkness after only a relatively short time that it takes for it to clear the photosphere of the planet, where light is created. Beyond that there is no light or heat (going toward the Sun) until within a couple of thousand miles away from it.
  The point above is to compare how some cells may be able to POLARIZE energy out of the surrounding ambient, in a similar way as polarized light is created on our planet, and does not to travel from the Sun to get here.
 
  No need to argue with text book examples,  I've heard it all before.

                                                                  NickZ


I guess this would explain why on a sunny day it feels warm but if you were to go into space you would feel cold even though your in direct sun light?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 27, 2012, 11:44:59 PM
I was able to break the 2 volt barrier today!  ;D


I had to use a rock as one of my electrodes and then magnesium ribbon in tap water.


Can anyone guess what rock that is, its a common rock.  :)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 28, 2012, 12:10:10 AM
I was able to break the 2 volt barrier today!  ;D


I had to use a rock as one of my electrodes and then magnesium ribbon in tap water.


Can anyone guess what rock that is, its a common rock.  :)


 sandstone?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 28, 2012, 01:29:44 AM

 sandstone?


Nope, its not sandstone.


@all
With this rock I've found that it always wants to be the positive electrode. So what that means is yes, carbon/graphite is a negative electrode. Normally carbon is always a positive electrode but not when you use this rock. Can carbon corrode? Copper and titanium are also a negative electrode and the great thing about titanium is that its super corrosion resistant.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 28, 2012, 01:46:30 AM

Nope, its not sandstone.


@all
With this rock I've found that it always wants to be the positive electrode. So what that means is yes, carbon/graphite is a negative electrode. Normally carbon is always a positive electrode but not when you use this rock. Can carbon corrode? Copper and titanium are also a negative electrode and the great thing about titanium is that its super corrosion resistant.


Granite?


 have to say though IB that stone looked really wet So I would think that much water on the surface is doing all your conduction. Through the evaporation portion of water it is probably generating it's own voltage trough that process or something similar..
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 28, 2012, 02:28:07 AM

Granite?


 have to say though IB that stone looked really wet So I would think that much water on the surface is doing all your conduction. Through the evaporation portion of water it is probably generating it's own voltage trough that process or something similar..


Sorry its not Granite.


The rock is naturally dark in color, only the bottom of the rock is wet.


Also many people may say its the clip lead that is reason for voltage but the clip lead is zinc and its no way that zinc and magnesium could produce over 2 volts.


I don't see water evaporating could be the reason for the voltage.


You're getting closer to the answer i would say. As soon as i hear more guess from others I let everyone know what it is and where to get it. Thank you for playing along.  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 28, 2012, 04:37:58 AM
IB2,I think its great you reached the two volt record.I made copper oxide solar cells back in the early 1990's in my kitchen like your video  you found shows.I did not use saltwater.I used elmers glue to attach a conductive window screen to the front.Scratched a small area bare on the
back of the copper plate to attach a wire to.When I heated the copper plate until it was black I plunged it into tap water out of the tap to knock the black oxide off.With wires attached to the screen and to the bare spot on the back of the plate it was ready for testing once the elmers glue dried clear.So its funny that I'm working with elmers glue again 20 years later.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 28, 2012, 01:08:38 PM
IB2,I think its great you reached the two volt record.I made copper oxide solar cells back in the early 1990's in my kitchen like your video  you found shows.I did not use saltwater.I used elmers glue to attach a conductive window screen to the front.Scratched a small area bare on the
back of the copper plate to attach a wire to.When I heated the copper plate until it was black I plunged it into tap water out of the tap to knock the black oxide off.With wires attached to the screen and to the bare spot on the back of the plate it was ready for testing once the elmers glue dried clear.So its funny that I'm working with elmers glue again 20 years later.triffid


wow thats cool. Back to using glue again, its great stuff.  ;D
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 28, 2012, 03:14:30 PM
@ IB: I've been using pultruded carbon rod since I started. :) Awesome that you got over the 2 volt 'barrier', congrats! Aluminum can sit in regular water without the corrosion you get when using (untreated) Mg in the same fashion. (You won't see those kinds of results using aluminum though...)
I've been focusing my experiments on those two materials as electrodes because of this. I'm pretty sure the carbon rods I'm using won't corrode no matter what electrolyte I stick them into, but we will see in six months or so eh?
@ NickZ and Jbignes5: Polarization of the planes. Nice. The light tug of gravity statement was well put too! ;) So the 'medium' is tiny perfect squares that are really perfect circles... Is that fairly close?
I made a couple more cells yesterday and cleaned out my spice cabinet to get a few empty containers for more cells. My alum should be here any day... :)
Got another battery for my tester and a spare. :)

Anyhow, happy experimenting everyone! Congrats again IB!!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on February 28, 2012, 05:02:13 PM
   Guys:
   I believe the polarization process to be an important point, although not well understood.  As people still talk about the "speed of light", as if light were traveling, which is false. The polarization rate of light is the speed at which light is observed going from one place to another, but with no physical movement actually involved. Just like a radio signal is not actually "traveling" from the station to a radio receiver, but is also "moving" by a polarization process at a certain rate, speed and frequency  which is also dependent on the medium that it "travels" through. 
  Aether is not dependent of physical matter to exist, it is its own story by itself, and is the source which creates the physical worlds, by its own rules that it function by.     
  Everything comes from the Aether, which is the rare-field solution of space. So, this is what we need to directly tap into, or harvest energy from.
    Light is an energy,  but as a non corporeal substance is not the same as anything in physical form. Nor do we really know what light really is, or how to produce, manufacture, or create it from the surrounding ambient. Other than by moving magnets past coils as in electrical generators systems (Tesla's ideas), and solar cells. 
But, it is the solar cells as an analogy that uses the semiconductor system to produce electricity from so called sunlight, and in a similar manor it may be possibly the use of semiconductor system to produce, or convert, or tap electricity directly from the lattice,  without having to use "sunlight" at all.
 

   There is no light or heat in deep outer space, it is dark and cold as hell. Well, you know what I mean.
  Solar cells on space craft are limited to working only where there is light available, like on our space stations in close earth orbits, or on Mars, etz...  Or such as where a planets photosphere will allow them to function.  Light is produced or manufactured, by each planet, and is not send or received or reflected by the Sun, moon, or stars any other thing is space.  Because of the way that polarization works, it MAY be possible to "travel" through space, without actually traveling, such as from point A to point B.  Or we would never get there, even to the next closest star, as we don't live that long. Yet it may be possible to get to anywhere, or communitate with the rest of the worlds, much quicker than by shooting bulky rockets that need to carry heavy fuels through space.

  Ok, back to my cells.

 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on February 28, 2012, 05:28:42 PM
 8)  IB - Cool vid with the rock - Tell us more.
 
 :)  NickZ - Hang in there dude, you are a valuable contributor and give us all inspiration.
 
New vid you might want to see,
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ypbO2eX1k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ypbO2eX1k)
 
Brad
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 28, 2012, 08:03:05 PM
@ IB: I've been using pultruded carbon rod since I started. :) Awesome that you got over the 2 volt 'barrier', congrats! Aluminum can sit in regular water without the corrosion you get when using (untreated) Mg in the same fashion. (You won't see those kinds of results using aluminum though...)
I've been focusing my experiments on those two materials as electrodes because of this. I'm pretty sure the carbon rods I'm using won't corrode no matter what electrolyte I stick them into, but we will see in six months or so eh?
@ NickZ and Jbignes5: Polarization of the planes. Nice. The light tug of gravity statement was well put too! ;) So the 'medium' is tiny perfect squares that are really perfect circles... Is that fairly close?
I made a couple more cells yesterday and cleaned out my spice cabinet to get a few empty containers for more cells. My alum should be here any day... :)
Got another battery for my tester and a spare. :)

Anyhow, happy experimenting everyone! Congrats again IB!!
PC


Thank you!


No need to worry about your carbon rods, the only way I know carbon to corrode is by extreme heat (thousands of degree's). Carbon will work great.  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 28, 2012, 08:37:08 PM
8)  IB - Cool vid with the rock - Tell us more.
 
 :)  NickZ - Hang in there dude, you are a valuable contributor and give us all inspiration.
 
New vid you might want to see,
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ypbO2eX1k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0ypbO2eX1k)
 
Brad




The rock crystal that I used to get the two volts and I showed in my latest videos is called Hematite. [size=78%]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematite)[/size]


It is basically iron-oxide, and its mined as the main ore for iron. The reason why I used it as a electrode was that its already be exposed to water and the environment so I don't need to worry about it corroding. You won't find the metals we use in our cells laying around, they're usually rusted or have a oxide layer on them and they must be heated up to remove the oxide layer and that leaves you with the plain metal. Hematite is heated up and the oxygen is removed and your left with iron/steel. Iron will always want to go back to hematite so why not just use hematite, nature's electrode? Hematite will always want to be the positive electrode so that means carbon, copper, and titanium will be the negative electrode and since most of these are corrosion resistant we can have electrodes that will out live us. So now it doesn't matter what crystal solution you use (to a certain degree). There is other ore's out their we can use too!


Here is where i bought my hematite, they gave me a extra gift of some more crystals too.  [size=78%]http://www.ebay.com/itm/180629943479 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/180629943479)[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 28, 2012, 10:32:15 PM
You know i was thinking you could wrap some coils around hematite since it contains iron and make a iron-core inductor out of it?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 28, 2012, 11:34:37 PM
Here is the solid state cell that everyone wanted before we went to wet cells again on EF. At the bottom is a video showing it powering a light bulb.


http://pesn.com/2011/07/23/9501875_Number-1_Breakthrough_Solid_State_Generator/


"Voltages typically vary between 1 and 40 volts dc but have been measured up to 100 volts in extreme cold conditions."


"Once the material is assembled and initiated it will continue to produce electricity for at least 20 years possibly up to 100 years."


"The first device consists of three materials that are layered onto each other. The first layer is already a known material that generates electricity when stimulated. The second material stimulates the first material or layer to produce the electricity. However to stimulate the second material you need another or third material. The combination of the materials and their composition determine the voltage. The surface area and how well the materials contact each other determine the current. The materials can be multi layered to increase current output. "


http://youtu.be/cXO8ygj6-Yk







[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 29, 2012, 12:20:51 AM
@ IB: I've been using pultruded carbon rod since I started. :) Awesome that you got over the 2 volt 'barrier', congrats! Aluminum can sit in regular water without the corrosion you get when using (untreated) Mg in the same fashion. (You won't see those kinds of results using aluminum though...)
I've been focusing my experiments on those two materials as electrodes because of this. I'm pretty sure the carbon rods I'm using won't corrode no matter what electrolyte I stick them into, but we will see in six months or so eh?
@ NickZ and Jbignes5: Polarization of the planes. Nice. The light tug of gravity statement was well put too! ;) So the 'medium' is tiny perfect squares that are really perfect circles... Is that fairly close?
I made a couple more cells yesterday and cleaned out my spice cabinet to get a few empty containers for more cells. My alum should be here any day... :)
Got another battery for my tester and a spare. :)

Anyhow, happy experimenting everyone! Congrats again IB!!
PC


 Well my prevailing theory is that the smallest particles ever known are pyramidal in shape. Much like salt. Then those make up even larger particles that make up even larger particles. At some point those triangles make up any shape that is desired. Just like in computer graphics.


 Here is a concept of that theory:


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sierpinski_pyramid.png


 If you click the picture it will give a better representation of the two particles. Now imagine that the spaces are filled with charges and that is what drives the particles. At least the active particles. The red is active and the blue is non active. The non active are the polarizable particles and the red is "charge". The red one has infinite space inside of the particle and the blue has very little space for charges. The neat thing is they are self powering because of their shape and both are highly reactive to charges which are only a smaller subset of strings of smaller red particles into balls that resemble a mass of worms. As you can see from the red particle it is highly dynamic and can grow in size imparting charges of all different values.

 Please remember that these particles flow in a fluid like medium. The red particle would slip through the medium with ease. The blue particle moves via the surface area it presents from the bases being forward so it has some resistance to movement but actually moves via this method. Think about how these structures would move in a fluid medium and you will see how they operate.


 And the use of triangles for computer graphics is common knowledge by now.

 IB. Awesome find there!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 29, 2012, 12:52:46 AM
You know i was thinking you could wrap some coils around hematite since it contains iron and make a iron-core inductor out of it?


 You should have read this IB...


Hematite is an antiferromagnetic material below the at 250 K, and a canted antiferromagnet or weakly ferromagnetic above the Morin transition and below its Néel temperature at 948 K, above which it is paramagnetic. But think about the microscopic picture they show. There is tons of surface area on that one microscopic area that water would conduct huge amounts of environmental energy into the structure causing the voltage you see..

 Does a magnet stick to it? And if so, Strongly or Weakly? When you expose the stone to a magnet does it change the voltage you see when you have it in the water and the volt meter is hooked up?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on February 29, 2012, 01:41:06 AM

 You should have read this IB...


Hematite is an antiferromagnetic material below the at 250 K, and a canted antiferromagnet or weakly ferromagnetic above the Morin transition and below its Néel temperature at 948 K, above which it is paramagnetic. But think about the microscopic picture they show. There is tons of surface area on that one microscopic area that water would conduct huge amounts of environmental energy into the structure causing the voltage you see..

 Does a magnet stick to it? And if so, Strongly or Weakly? When you expose the stone to a magnet does it change the voltage you see when you have it in the water and the volt meter is hooked up?


Yes the hematite is attracted to a magnet, but weakly. A neo magnet can support itself when attracted to the hematite.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on February 29, 2012, 01:42:42 AM
@IB:
I have some hematite somewhere, for the life of me, I cannot find it.  I did do an experiment though.  Using those little black craft magnets I found the following;
A cube magnet - positive to dry side of magnet, negative with water on opposite side and voltage read .155 Volts,
A cube magnet - positive to dry side of magnet, negative with vinegar on opposite side and voltage read .289 Volts.
A large Button magnet - proportionally less voltage.
A small Button magnet - even less, but still measurable.
A neo magnet - no voltage.
I also tried using copper wire on the positive (oops, should have said negative) but readings were slightly less than using the clip only.
Proceed with caution, I am not certain how to interpret these results.
 
 :) Brad
 
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 29, 2012, 02:52:09 AM
 If you are gonna go the route of iron oxides then check this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochre)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 29, 2012, 05:21:00 AM
Got my oscope today! :) A lightly used Tektronix 422. I haven't had much time to play around with it yet, but I was able to get some standing waves messing around with a probe and some of my cells... Also pretty sure the maximum frequency is (WAY) too low to see crystals vibrating or anything exciting like that. However I believe I can do a lot of good testing by comparing how the cells discharge and what the waveforms look like when they do. It has been quite a while since I have dialed in a trace.....
So, since there are a lot of folks here who have used and/or currently own scopes, perhaps someone will throw some ideas my way. I have some low voltage capacitors coming in a week or so, maybe I can figure out some configurations that can help my research until then.
Anyhow the scope goes up to 15MHz and has a dual trace so at least I can compare cells maybe...
Happy experimenting all,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on February 29, 2012, 03:04:03 PM



 I currently own a BK Precision 1477 15 mhz scope. The one thing I suggest is to find a good earth ground and hook that to the scope. This way the scope will not react to the ground in your house. When looking at my cells on the scope I did see an ac component when connected across the cells.


 This led me to put a full wave bridge rectifier onto the cells and to my amazement gave me a tad bit more dc out of the cells. Now I know a lot about electronics and the interactions with rectifiers and it did not make any sense that I should get more voltage out of the cells then without the rectifier. So this does prove, to me at least that there is something more to these cells. Even if the bridge rectifier was working as some have suggested in a one sided mode then wouldn't there be a voltage drop across the bridge? Wouldn't that lower the dc output and not raise it?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 29, 2012, 04:00:54 PM


 I currently own a BK Precision 1477 15 mhz scope. The one thing I suggest is to find a good earth ground and hook that to the scope. This way the scope will not react to the ground in your house. When looking at my cells on the scope I did see an ac component when connected across the cells.
 This led me to put a full wave bridge rectifier onto the cells and to my amazement gave me a tad bit more dc out of the cells. Now I know a lot about electronics and the interactions with rectifiers and it did not make any sense that I should get more voltage out of the cells then without the rectifier. So this does prove, to me at least that there is something more to these cells. Even if the bridge rectifier was working as some have suggested in a one sided mode then wouldn't there be a voltage drop across the bridge? Wouldn't that lower the dc output and not raise it?

Thanks for the tip Jbignes5! I will see about finding a good ground source. I live on the 2nd story in a condo so I'm gonna have to 'discretely' put in my own ground rod, wire up the side of the building, and leave myself access to it through a window... Sounds like fun! ;)  (Is the external ground the unmarked thing on the bottom right?)
Question: If I use the same low voltage source (for a signal generator) on both traces, say a low voltage transformer for some gizmo, only hook one trace up opposite polarity, then add my own cell into one of the 'circuits', can I use the 'alg' function to cancel out the lv source to see my cell voltage more clearly?
I can't believe how expensive signal generators are... Might be cheaper to build one heh heh...
I will have to get/build a bridge rectifier too...
More fun today with my new scope and some cells and stuff.

Happy experimenting all,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 29, 2012, 07:05:18 PM
Just reporting on my second 18 count panel.I have had problems with all 18 cells connected.The first day after a few hours of being hooked up to a volt meter.It dropped to about 5.88 volts and .89 mas.So I hooked up an LED to it and it burned brightly for a while until yesterday.I tested the volts got 2.88 volts and .20 mas.I unhooked all the wires yesterday And got zero volts on about three cells.Today I tested all of them and they are each reading at least 1.25 volts with most in the 1.3 volt range.My first thought was that the connecting wires are too heavy and they are breaking metal/crystal connections.So yesterday I removed all wires and let the panel alone. So at 24 hours of being left alone without a load the voltages appear to be back up.I bought a soldering iron kit from radio shack for ten dollars.I will be looking into using smaller wires to make connections.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on February 29, 2012, 07:13:08 PM
I think each cell although producing voltage on its own.Is different from each other cell in some way.Voltage seeps into each cell but at different rates.Some cells are exhausted sooner than others.These are my thoughts so far on my panel.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on February 29, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
I think each cell although producing voltage on its own.Is different from each other cell in some way.Voltage seeps into each cell but at different rates.Some cells are exhausted sooner than others.These are my thoughts so far on my panel.triffid
I am considering using mini ice cube trays and mixing/pouring my elelectrolyte all at the same time to avoid some of those issues (I hope). Lots of small cells all from the same mix should give me about the same VmA readings (again, I hope!). I think there are 60 cubes per tray? For now one cell at a time! :)
Still waiting for some ammeters I ordered to arrive since the ammeter on my tester died (or was killed, I forget...). No idea how little current my cells produce at all.
Keep experimenting all! Still waiting for my alum to arrive so I can start a new line of tests...
And now I have this piece of hardware that is just begging me to try hooking things up to it. ;)
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 01, 2012, 02:18:16 AM
Im thinking that the mass of each cell is different from the others.The amount of epsom salts should be ok.I eyeballed the amount going into each cell.Did not weigh anything with a scale.The amount of salt sub should be ok for each cell.Im wondering if I should build these cells using jars?Use large amounts of epsom salts and glue And salt sub?I would hate to have to move around  a bunch of jars.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 01, 2012, 02:22:55 AM
PC,I think those plastic ice cube trays would be a great way to go.I saw a u-tube video on some guy using them to make a earth battery panel using clay.check for holes of course and good luck with experimenting.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 01, 2012, 09:55:22 PM
Some people ask me about the amp readings on my hematite electrode cells, here is a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opbBwDB3u_w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opbBwDB3u_w)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 02, 2012, 12:14:54 AM
 Well Well.. What about different sizes of the hematite? Bigger size= more current? Does the voltage vary from rock to rock, from size to size?

 Until my shipment comes in I have to ask you..

 When I get my rocks I am gonna have some cut to see if it effects the voltage current capabilities. I'm thinking a thin slice of Hematite then a layer of epsom salts then a gold leaf electrode to complete the crystal/water battery. Hopefully The current can be increased.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 02, 2012, 01:07:51 AM
Well Well.. What about different sizes of the hematite? Bigger size= more current? Does the voltage vary from rock to rock, from size to size?

 Until my shipment comes in I have to ask you..

 When I get my rocks I am gonna have some cut to see if it effects the voltage current capabilities. I'm thinking a thin slice of Hematite then a layer of epsom salts then a gold leaf electrode to complete the crystal/water battery. Hopefully The current can be increased.


This is quite a hard question to answer. Yes size can affect more current but that doesn't mean anything if you're not touching the sweet spot. Think of this like the old crystal detector used in crystal radio's, if you don't find the sweet spot you wont get the radio station. The amps can very a lot but usually the voltage is pretty much at a good spot sometimes. Every rock is a little different than the next. Did you buy the Hematite the same place I got mine? If so then let me know if they give you a free gift of rocks, some of the rocks are interesting.


I really want to cut some up and use thin slices too but don't know the best way to go about that. The gold leaf idea sounds great, the gold will have a hard time corroding because its a inert metal.


What I find odd about most of the hematite rocks is that adding salts to the water won't shoot up the amps, its all about the sweet spot. I can have hematite and magnesium sitting in water giving me X amount of amps but add some salt to it and the amps stay the same most of the time. But if i rotate the rock to the west I get a big jump in Amps, so its very odd. A lot of study needs to be given to these rock electrodes, I'm sure they will have plenty to tell us.




@ all
Here is a video of a cell giving me 2 volts. [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpkGJ2tRWxk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpkGJ2tRWxk)[/size]



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 02, 2012, 01:16:49 AM
 Well I hope I am helping you with these questions. No my source is different and if the effect isn't the same then that will let us know that it could be composition of that particular hematite.


 I wanted to try flat surface first to see if it is shape based differential or somthing within the crystal structure of the stone. I'm assuming it has to do with inclusions in the hematite and you arew actually getting contact inside of the hematite. Having a rough flat plane and a polished plane should help us figure out why these spots are location specific...

 I also wanted to use epsom salts for the water locked in the crystals and for nothing more. Yes it will loose water a bit when I heat up the unit but it should be fine after it resets and forms a bridge of contained water (epsom crystals). I'm not gonna add one drop of water and only use the crystalline water that should be locked into the newly formed espsom crystals.

  I was thinking gold leaf because thats what they use to measure static charge and it is super resistant to corrosion. The hematite should be very resistant to corrosion as well. I think what we are creating is a crystal oscillator in between two electrodes. This is a static oscillator and could be the reason for the strange fluctuations everyone has been seeing.

 If we understand the static laws we know inside of the rock has zero potential. This is a void in the medium of space but that void has matter and the network of the medium inside of it. The pattern of the network is based on the orientation and chemical binders of the rocks mater. This network ai created by matter and is not usually outside of matter but for it's radiated potential or displacement of the medium. Although there is some medium squeezed in between the mater it is of less density then the external network.

 Speaking of the network, that is what I think water is. Just condensed unused network. Super concentrations of the network. This means we are supplying a greater connection outside of the mater creating more force inward. This pressurizes the network and separates the atoms more which coincidentally raising the voltage of the mater in that process. This is why when you make the cell round it concentrated the potential inward even more.

 The flow of current is this pressure releasing converting some of the voltage into current as the water inside the crystal acts like a static storm...Let me see if I can find an example.....

Water showing static polarization:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=iC8KDYcdiUI

Movement via static induction:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT4UVsfZkwg
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T_swQUT1kE
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL41KyTa9h8&feature=related
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnPEgV_GFkU&feature=related

 And this is the final example I will show. Think of the crystalline water in the crystals working like this...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4rT_SkhTy8&feature=related

 The plates are the electrodes we have and the static potential is the value of the materials used as the electrodes. It self oscillates and ferries charges back and forth depending on the plane of the electrodes and the charge value on the water inside of the crystals. Since most piezoelectric crystals react to pressures or vibrations this thing generates some of it's own potential and that is the current we should see. Because the plates or electrodes have a set potential of their own they are locked, sort of, to a certain potential. Any additional voltage should be converted into real current by the static potential of the electrodes.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 02, 2012, 02:29:11 AM

So Usually Hematite is more positive than the graphite, copper, titanium, zinc, etc... that I have used. I have found a metal that is more positive than Hematite which is Bismuth. So now that Hematite can be a negative electrode how can a metal that's already corroded corrode? Hematite has been exposed to the weather and is fully oxidized so how can it corrode if its already corroded?  Using Bismuth and hematite I get over 400mV.


Before I bought Hematite I was searching for ore's like it but the question I would ask to Google is if the ore is conductive. Most answers i got about Hematite being conductive was that it was either not conductive or somewhat semi-conductive. From What I'm seeing every piece of Hematite I used is working as a electrode, some better than others. So this is got me wonder what other oxides will work. Most people say oxides are not conductive but that doesn't mean we can't use them as electrodes. I wondering about magnesium oxide or zinc oxide?

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 02, 2012, 02:34:58 AM
I wonder what kind of volts a sliced iron meteorite would give?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 02, 2012, 02:41:22 AM
Zinc oxide is conductive so I can answer that question right now .You can make at home using baking soda water,zinc and copper electrodes with a current flowing through the baking soda water.The white oxide forms on the zinc electrode.You can take it out of the solution scrape off the white oxide.Put it back in solution and make some more.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 02, 2012, 02:43:24 AM
I finally got some cold beer.Hams beer  3 cans for $1.69 at quik trip.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 02, 2012, 02:47:05 AM
Your walmart might have bismuth in it.Just look for non- lead fishing weights.I used to see them in walmart in texas.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 02, 2012, 02:48:46 AM
I wonder what kind of volts a sliced iron meteorite would give?triffid


You bring up a good idea. I wonder what voltage we would get from a meteorite?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 02, 2012, 03:18:47 AM
I depends on the meteorite..


 Check the structure of this piece:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Widmanstatten_hand.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Widmanstatten_hand.jpg)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 02, 2012, 06:49:46 AM
@ IB: If hematite is the material, what about trying hematite rings? (Or are those some kind of ground up-recombined hematite?) Break those rings in half maybe? How well does aluminum work with hematite? Gotta go watch your videos, I haven't had time!!
Bismuth huh? Awesome job! (EDIT: Niiiiice!!! Nevermind the aluminum question...)

Got a bunch of stuff in the mail I ordered today. So far the microamp (0-500uA) meter (vintage triplet) is the only one my cells will move. Lucky I got one of those although I have a sweet vintage Honeywell (0-2.0mA) that I haven't tried out yet but will probably see a lot of use (I hope). Busy RL!! Maybe tomorrow or the weekend will allow more measurements etc.
Happy experimenting everyone,
PC
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Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 02, 2012, 03:12:48 PM


 After looking at several batteries I know think I know whats going on and it agrees with my previous assumptions.


"The action which takes place in an Edison cell, both in charging and discharging, is a transfer of oxygen from one electrode to the other, or from one group of plates to the other, hence this type of cell is sometimes called and oxygenlift cell. In a charged cell the active material of the positive plates is superoxidized, and that of the negative plates is in a spongy or deoxidized state."[/size]

[/size]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-ion_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-ion_battery)
http://www.dataweek.co.za/news.aspx?pklNewsID=597&pklCategoryID=31&pklIssueID=40 (http://www.dataweek.co.za/news.aspx?pklNewsID=597&pklCategoryID=31&pklIssueID=40)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_iron_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_iron_battery)

 It seems to me that oxygen is the charge carrier and water has oxygen in it. The crystalline water has Highly organized oxygen in it. This organization facilitates a better transfer of the standing potentials present from the electrodes. The oxide layer we were using was making a locked layer of oxygen that did not move completely to the electrode when charged. This allowed the charges to bind to the oxygen and rotate around a center point of the lattice. When the charge on the oxygen comes nearer to the electrode it inductively charges the electrode causing more charge to appear on the electrode via electrostatic charging laws. Charges will shift in the electrode imparting planar voltage levels on the electrodes. One side will be -2 volts and the other side or plane will be +2 volts. I would suggest that we use objects that have an inside and outside, with two planes in parallel.

 These batteries are very simple electrostatic devices. Through the electrostatic device it creates a dynamic diode like effect. It indeed works like the video's I showed you earlier with moving oxygen as the vehicle and not the water. The water it seems is the ball bearing and anchor for which the oxygen revolves around and changes the diodes direction. If a third plane was added to the cell it should react much like a transistor does. Hmmm....
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on March 02, 2012, 05:03:24 PM
 Although water contain oxygen which is resposible for "OXIDATION" it is also be present in the air, so unless a cell is hermetic it will also absorb oxygen from the air, and that will also create a negative effect in the metals.  The oxide layer may help to protect the metals from the open air, as in an air battery, but I have my doubts about its long lasting effects when salts are used in wet electrolytes in sealed, open, or exposed cells.
I feel that the salts will win in the end, and the metals will be dissolved.  This is what I have seen in my salty environment. Of course, this is only my opinion, which will take some time to prove. But I have not seen any layers or protective galvanizing or anything similar that will work long term when combined with salts and water, or even just air.
  What do you think would happen if you put metals that have the protective oxide layers and are then placed in a concentrated salt solution, and then further exposed to the open air? Mush!  Or not? At least if the cells are sealed they will act more like sealed LAB, that can function for many years.  What are we gaining by it all, when you compared to what you can already buy ready-made?
 
  Ib2:  What is needed is to show that by using only voltage in your cells, something useful can be obtained from it. Not just to dimly blink an led on an oscillator, as that has no useful purpose.  Yes, even trees, and rocks, have some energy to them, but it is all due to what is external to them, and how they all interact with the surrounding field energies.
 
                              NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 02, 2012, 06:12:52 PM
The Super-iron battery is a new class of rechargeable battery.
"Super-iron" is a moniker for a special kind of iron salt (iron(VI)).Potassium ferrate (K2FeO4) or barium ferrate(BaFeO4), used in this new class of batteries. As of 2004 chemist Stuart Licht of the University of Massachusetts was leading research into a Super-iron battery.Use of ferrate cathodes was tested and patented by Amendola as well as other patents."...the new employs salts of an unusual ionic form of iron — hexavalent or superoxidized iron—that readily accept three electrons per ion, Licht explains. The more electrons the cathodean accept, the more electricity the battery can supply." —Peter Weiss. It uses the same zinc anode and electrolyte as an alkaline battery, but its capacity is around 50% higher.


 Here is it's application:  http://www.ou.edu/class/che-design/a-design/projects-2003/SUPER%20BATTERY-SUMMARY.pdf
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 03, 2012, 02:13:24 AM

  Ib2:  What is needed is to show that by using only voltage in your cells, something useful can be obtained from it. Not just to dimly blink an led on an oscillator, as that has no useful purpose.  Yes, even trees, and rocks, have some energy to them, but it is all due to what is external to them, and how they all interact with the surrounding field energies.
 
                              NickZ




I've been thinking very hard on how to make a low amp cell useful and I think I may have a idea. We keep seeing these cells as batteries but they don't give much amps at all so we must stop looking at them as batteries but instead look at them as components. I'll include a picture below of a rough draft of a idea I have to use low power crystal cells as components. 


You have C2 fully charged (1.5V) and powering the circuit. The circuit powers a LED and then it dumps it into C3. The crystal cell is in parallel with C3 and it helps to charge C3 too, the crystal cell puts back in the energy that was lost do to heat from the circuit. The Crystal cell "picks up the slack" and thus puts a higher charge into C3. C3 can now be swapped with C2 so that you can repeat the process. The LED will run for a long time if you swap the capacitors over, the Crystal cell will put the energy in that is loss do to the natural loss of circuits.



This is just a rough idea.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 03, 2012, 02:28:32 AM
My concern is that we do not have the heat that comes with summer right now.I started my experiments in the winter.About the second week of january.So I have not had a chance to see how the heat of a hot car will affect my batteries.I think I will make six more cells using buttermilk in place of vineagar.I realized today too that eyedrop bottles could be used to measure out drops of vineagar or whatever once they are cleaned out.Maybe a couple of bucks for the cheapest eyedrops?Iron could be the key here.Iron rust(iron oxide) should be easy enough to come by.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 03, 2012, 02:31:56 AM
I do see these cells as self charging capacitors if that helps anyone. Someone else here thought of them as diodes once upon a time.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 03, 2012, 03:05:36 AM
I do see these cells as self charging capacitors if that helps anyone. Someone else here thought of them as diodes once upon a time.triffid


 I still do lol... But it seems we are retracing discoveries that are previously been discovered. Edison, Stubblefield and even newer discoverers. The earth battery is about the closest thing to the super iron battery. This super iron seems to be a super oxygenated iron that converts between iron(3) and Iron(6). Just like the Edison battery it relies on irons ability to transition between the two very easily.


 These are diodes in all effects. The electrodes hold the potentials that bias the diodes on or allow current flow through the diodes and naturally the diodes leak in a reverse manner. Think of a pipe with holes drilled in it. Create a vacuum and it sucks in the environmental energy via the pipe holes. Except this is a diode. It only allows environment in and not out causing a pulsating flow out of the diode.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on March 03, 2012, 03:10:45 AM
  Ib2:
    I have not found much advantage in using capacitors in line with the cells. As they only charge up to the same voltage as is being put out by the cells, and don't really hold that charge more than a few seconds. So, I have not found them to be of help much, in conjunction with these cells.
In any case please do try it out, as there is not much to lose, and everything to gain. the circuit mentioned is not so complicated, and would not take long to build.
  I'm waiting for John B to show us his BwJt circuit, using the transformer idea. 
 
   triffid:  Although some cells are working somewhat similar to capacitors, or diodes, as they are all "one way" directional components, but I have not heard or seen any caps or diodes that can do what some of these cells can do. 
   As you will not get much Current from your series connected multi-cell design,  maybe there is something that can be done, using  mostly voltage, as that you can obtain and is what all of us need to learn how to work with, instead of using current.  Have you built an oscillator circuit to use with your cells? If not, that is what you'll need to do, or you'll find that the cell voltage will drop, and since you have very little current, the leds will go out, even after a short while.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 03, 2012, 03:12:56 AM



I've been thinking very hard on how to make a low amp cell useful and I think I may have a idea. We keep seeing these cells as batteries but they don't give much amps at all so we must stop looking at them as batteries but instead look at them as components. I'll include a picture below of a rough draft of a idea I have to use low power crystal cells as components. 


You have C2 fully charged (1.5V) and powering the circuit. The circuit powers a LED and then it dumps it into C3. The crystal cell is in parallel with C3 and it helps to charge C3 too, the crystal cell puts back in the energy that was lost do to heat from the circuit. The Crystal cell "picks up the slack" and thus puts a higher charge into C3. C3 can now be swapped with C2 so that you can repeat the process. The LED will run for a long time if you swap the capacitors over, the Crystal cell will put the energy in that is loss do to the natural loss of circuits.



This is just a rough idea.


 Why not make the cell like a capacitor? That way it can self charge and maybe become stronger in the process.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 03, 2012, 03:38:02 AM
  Ib2:
    I have not found much advantage in using capacitors in line with the cells. As they only charge up to the same voltage as is being put out by the cells, and don't really hold that charge more than a few seconds. So, I have not found them to be of help much, in conjunction with these cells.
In any case please do try it out, as there is not much to lose, and everything to gain. the circuit mentioned is not so complicated, and would not take long to build.
  I'm waiting for John B to show us his BwJt circuit, using the transformer idea. 
 
   triffid:  Although some cells are working somewhat similar to capacitors, or diodes, as they are all "one way" directional components, but I have not heard or seen any caps or diodes that can do what some of these cells can do. 
   As you will not get much Current from your series connected multi-cell design,  maybe there is something that can be done, using  mostly voltage, as that you can obtain and is what all of us need to learn how to work with, instead of using current.  Have you built an oscillator circuit to use with your cells? If not, that is what you'll need to do, or you'll find that the cell voltage will drop, and since you have very little current, the leds will go out, even after a short while.


In the diagram the cell is not in series with the capacitor but instead is in parallel. Putting a cell in series with something is not a good idea. Having the cells in parallel and with a higher voltage will give the results i'm after.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 03, 2012, 03:40:34 AM

 Why not make the cell like a capacitor? That way it can self charge and maybe become stronger in the process.


The cell do act like capacitors. But they hold little charge and putting the cell in series with something like a LED will make the LED go dim as the cell fills up. The cells don't do good in series but they do great in parallel.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 03, 2012, 05:32:15 AM
Hey all!
Good things are afoot!! I have tested a bunch of cells today and started taking measurements. That is to say I've taken measurements on more than half of the cells I have made (which is quite a few!). (EDIT:Writing in a journal that is heh heh...)

I have something of a discovery to post here which I think is pretty significant:
While building some cells I decided to make a cell with one anode (1/4" aluminum rod) in the center and TWO cathodes (carbon tubes) in the same electrolyte mix.
The mix at this point is mostly irrelevant. What I think is worth notice is that when I hook up the anode to the black test lead, and then hook the red test lead to one of the cathodes, I get about 0.64v which drops steadily, over the course of a couple minutes, to about 0.41v.
Not exciting until I unhook that red test lead and hook it IMMEDIATELY to the other cathode and see 0.64v, the same reading I saw on the FIRST cathode when I first hooked it up!!! No waiting for recharge... So I hook the two cathodes together just now and it tests like just one cathode!!! The same 0.64v and sinking... Those readings are from a mix that wasn't very successful as far as voltage goes but the point of the test needs to be re-proven.

Help me out guys!!!!

Does this mean we can keep adding cathodes (or anodes???) until we run out of room in the electrolyte? Are you kidding me!?!
If this is the case we can use an anode 'case' full of cathodes!!
I have to go build some test cells to see what is up...
Easy thing to test right? Let me know what you find please!

Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 03, 2012, 01:23:49 PM
Hey all!
Good things are afoot!! I have tested a bunch of cells today and started taking measurements. That is to say I've taken measurements on more than half of the cells I have made (which is quite a few!). (EDIT:Writing in a journal that is heh heh...)

I have something of a discovery to post here which I think is pretty significant:
While building some cells I decided to make a cell with one anode (1/4" aluminum rod) in the center and TWO cathodes (carbon tubes) in the same electrolyte mix.
The mix at this point is mostly irrelevant. What I think is worth notice is that when I hook up the anode to the black test lead, and then hook the red test lead to one of the cathodes, I get about 0.64v which drops steadily, over the course of a couple minutes, to about 0.41v.
Not exciting until I unhook that red test lead and hook it IMMEDIATELY to the other cathode and see 0.64v, the same reading I saw on the FIRST cathode when I first hooked it up!!! No waiting for recharge... So I hook the two cathodes together just now and it tests like just one cathode!!! The same 0.64v and sinking... Those readings are from a mix that wasn't very successful as far as voltage goes but the point of the test needs to be re-proven.

Help me out guys!!!!

Does this mean we can keep adding cathodes (or anodes???) until we run out of room in the electrolyte? Are you kidding me!?!
If this is the case we can use an anode 'case' full of cathodes!!
I have to go build some test cells to see what is up...
Easy thing to test right? Let me know what you find please!

Happy experimenting,
PC


This is very interesting!


So when the first set dropped down in voltage you switched to the other carbon rod and got the same voltage you did from the start? What did you do after that go back to the first carbon rod and got the same voltage? This is a very interesting idea here  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 03, 2012, 03:21:15 PM
@ IB: When I returned to the original 'discharged' rod is was low like you would expect it to be. I need to make a few cells with a better mix and take more measurements.
(EDIT: It looks like the voltage rises/falls independently)
You can try it yourself by adding another strip of metal to one of your cells easy enough.
If it works with two, why wouldn't it work with twenty? Something to find out for sure!! Funny thing is it doesn't look like you can add the voltages together but maybe the current can be increased somehow this way? Current runs opposite of voltage so... ?
Yeah, I'm gonna try to build some multi-tap cells tonight (I hope, RL is busy!). I will use a better mix though... I do have to get more aluminum rod if I'm gonna use the same materials; It holds up better than cut up tea candle trays or aluminum wire for long term, however it does cost a bit more... Might use wire since I'm broke ATM heh heh... Still need to finish taking readings on a dozen cells...

Something that occured to me last night: Two voltages from one source means that these cells can be oscillators!!! Right?!? Wow... Amazing potential (no pun intended!)!!

Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 03, 2012, 03:25:22 PM


 Yes I discovered that as well. That is what led me to the all encompassing "case" electrode and multiple anodes. Dangit you stole my thunder rofl.... It also conforms to Bedini's findings about the star shaped electrode. Each point picks up a higher charge then the center of the start electrode. This conforms to the static rules of higher potentials following the highest peeks of the shape. Bends and sharp points also conform to this and is probably another reason stones are selective on the voltage you have seen IB. Well thats part of it. I think it is inclusions you can't see that is the reason for such high voltages paired with all the other reasons.


 So anyways yes I have found that multiple center electrodes does in fact raise the cells output. But I also found that it destabilizes the out put as well. It doesn't last as long as a single electrode in the center.


 The point I was making was why not make the cell like an electrolytic cap with two different metals. The spacer which should be a very porous material like felt or cloth can be used for the electrolyte and the crystal matrix/dielectric in the cell.

 I started to think about what Teslas was trying to say to us about capacitors. Most caps work on the principle of electrostatics. Since Tesla worked with the earlier versions of capacitors, they were better suited for electrostatics (leyden jar), it dawned on me that if we kept the voltage from feeding back to the source then we could make a quasi electrostatic gun of a sort. By putting a diode(led) after the cell it will not feed back to the cell and cause electrolysis in the cell. So it would charge up and discharge into the load automatically via the diode we add. Now all we need to do is charge a cap after the load and use that to fire into an inductive coupling to give the voltage some punch or amps.

 Tesla said that once he filled a cap he could take millions of horse power out of the cap. Even if we are able to get 50 horse power that would be much higher then we are dealing with now. I suggest if we are to do that that we use the same method that Tesla did and use the disruptive discharge method that is fired into the bifilar primary of a transformer and convert down the high voltage into a low voltage high current result.

 I showed a while back the ability to use coils and cores to make a quasi transistor that they call a magnetic amplifier. This would get rid of the limitations we have when using silicon and allows us to fine tune the mag amp the way we want instead of being tied to the locked in variables of silicon.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 03, 2012, 03:51:01 PM
@ Jbignes5: Heh heh, sorry about that thunder... I will try a 'star' shape at some point... More tests, more time!! Ack! Not enough time these days... Science is FUN!!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 03, 2012, 04:14:40 PM
I was joking lol...


 But I am not joking about the other points. Lets look at something else. Don't pay attention to the other stuff in this patent but look at how this guy describes the medium of space. I think this is very close to the actual medium we are in and how that medium effects the objects that reside in that medium:


 http://www.google.com/patents?id=Jf-TAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA10&dq=electrostatic+laws&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hTFST-GCLebj0QGy_7DwDQ&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=electrostatic%20laws&f=false

 Here is another patent done using electrostatics to communicate under water!

http://www.google.com/patents?id=YYVMAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA2&dq=electrostatic+laws&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fTZST_PANeTg0QGEqYCGBw&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBDgU#v=onepage&q=electrostatic%20laws&f=false

 And this one shows how we can change water to suit our needs. Or any liquid or compound there of.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=LC6pAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA7&dq=electrostatic+laws&hl=en&sa=X&ei=czlST8ntCMPe0QHg--XmDQ&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBTgy#v=onepage&q=electrostatic%20laws&f=false

 Wow someone patented my theory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sweet!

http://www.google.com/patents?id=cQSNAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA6&dq=electrostatic+laws&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9jxST8S-DO3J0AH-6Yi5DQ&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAzhQ#v=onepage&q=electrostatic%20laws&f=false
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 03, 2012, 06:46:39 PM
Just to let you guys know I made six cells using buttermilk/vitamin C today.This takes the place of the vineagar/vitamin C cells I had made earlier.Where the magnesium electrodes were eaten up within a week..My theory is that buttermilk contains buffers which will protect the metal electrodes.There is no acetic acid in the buttermilk however it just taste like it.




ingredients are: cultured lowfat milk,nonfat dry milk,guar gum,carrageenan,carob bean gum,salt,vitamin A palmitake and vitamin D3.Contains milk.


So no acids mentioned at all!




triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 03, 2012, 06:52:03 PM
If only I could make crystal cells that charge up to one thousand volts.I think we would have a lot more amps.We could at least design circuits to make more amps from them.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 03, 2012, 07:00:16 PM
Here is a link to the case of the shocking shampoo bottles.   http://www.esdjournal.com/static/shower/shower.html (http://www.esdjournal.com/static/shower/shower.html)


Maybe a crystal cell could be designed into a self powered leyden jar?


triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 04, 2012, 12:44:29 AM
http://www.amasci.com/emotor/statelec.html (http://www.amasci.com/emotor/statelec.html)   just wanted to park this somewhere.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 04, 2012, 12:48:11 AM
The DuLuc Dry Pile
High-voltage source
©1996 William J. BeatyThe Duluc Dry-Pile (also called the Zamboni Pile) was an "electrostatic battery" permanent power supply used in the early 1800s and constructed from silver foil, zinc foil, and paper. Foil disks of 2cm dia. were stacked up several thousand thick and then either compressed in a glass tube with endcaps and a screw assembly, or stacked between three glass rods with wooden endplates. Of course this is simply a Voltaic Pile, a multi-cell electrochemical battery, albiet one with output potential in the range of kilovolts. Each cell used nearly-dry paper as electrolyte, with zinc foil for one electrode and silver foil as the other. [/size]I have a friend who runs a diecutting printshop who might be able to turn out the disks in large quantities. I suspect that zinc foil is hard to find, but probably is not required. Perhaps aluminized paper and copper foil, or even silver leaf paper can be obtained, then simply punched out and stacked up. Or perhaps carbon paper can act as both electrolyte and electrode, using aluminum foil as the second electrode on each disk.

A 5ft dry pile should raise the hair of anyone who touches the end. Or a shorter one could act as a "magic wand": hold one end, touch someone's body with the other to charge them up, then touch their nose with your finger. SNAP!
[/size]
A book on the history of Perpetual Motion Machines showed photos of "genuine" perpetual motion devices based on the Dry Pile. DuLuc's version was composed of two series-connected Dry Piles operating a pendulum electrostatic motor of the "Franklin's Bell" type. The drypile stacks were of the 3-glass-rod variety, and had been insulated by dipping in liquid sulfur (no plastics in 1806!) The device in the book is owned by Dr. A.J. Croft of Oxford's Clarendon Lab. At the time of publication of the book, this device had been tinkling away for over a century, and the owner of the device mentioned that the clapper-bead was starting to take on a distinct hourglass shape, and may need to be replaced in the next few centuries! A second device by Zamboni was a perpetually rotating "Franklin's wheel" electrostatic motor powered by two dry piles. Zamboni experimented with drypile-powered clocks in the early 1800s.
[/size]
Dry piles found commercial use as the power supplies of electrostatic voltmeters (quadrant electrometers), and in infrared converter "night vision" scopes used in World War II.
[/size]
[/size]Highly recommended: ELECTROSTATICS by A. D. Moore (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1885540043/sciencehobbyist/) (lots of projects), also [/size]others (http://amasci.com/emotor/vdgbook.html)[/size]LINKS:
Artifacts (http://www.sparkmuseum.com/PERPMO.HTM) at Sparkmuseum (http://www.sparkmuseum.com/)
Clarendon dry-pile still going! (http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume7/v7i3/long-run-7-3.html)
Clarendon Dry Pile (http://www1.physics.ox.ac.uk/History/Exhibit1.html) at the Clarendon Laboratory Archive (http://www1.physics.ox.ac.uk/History/Archive.html)
Zamboni history (http://albinoni.brera.unimi.it/Atti-Como-96/tinazzi.html) at the U. of Milan, IT (http://albinoni.brera.unimi.it/)
Zamboni Pile GIF (http://chifis1.unipv.it/museo/fonti/museo/fisica/schede/N_229.htm) at the U. of Pavia (http://fw-chifis.unipv.it/museo/fonti/museo/fisica/fisica.htm) (italian)
[/font][/size]PERPETUAL MOTION, The History of an Obsession, by Arthur Ord-Hume, St. Martin's Press, NY 1977, ISBN 0-312-60131-X
[/size]
STATIC ELECTRICITY with 30 experiments, by J.H. Pepper, Lindsay Publications, Bradley IL, pp246-248
[/size]Some references from Ord-Hume's PERPETUAL MOTION: BEHRENS ZINC/COPPER/FLINT PILE ANNALEN DER PHYSIK, vol. 23 1 1806 ZAMBONI PILE M. J. Jamin, COURS DE PHYSIQUE, Gauthier-Villars, Paris, 1869, 2nd Ed., Vol 3, p39 Brugnatelli, GIORNALE DI FISICA... DEL RIGNO ITALICO, vol. 5, Dec. 1812 pp 424-46 DULUC PILE BY G.J. Singer, detailed instructions ELEMENTS OF ELECTRICITY AND ELECTROCHEMISTRY, London 1814 PRACTICAL CONSTRUCTION INSTRUCTIONS ENGLISH MECHANIC 1915 TH. Pratt and A. Elliott, ELECTRONIC ENGINEERING, Sept 1948 and Oct 1948  (w/info about WWII IR viewers powered by dry-piles) SOME DRY-PILE HOMEWORK PROBLEMS:If the Franklin's Bell constitutes a capacitance of maybe 5 picofarad (5E-12 Farad,) and if it is connected to a 1KV constant voltage battery, how small must the battery's internal resistance be in order to recharge the capacitance of the bell device several times per second? The minimum resistance in ohms may suprise you, it is very high and should easily be achieved even by a stack of non-moist paper disks. A Dry Pile won't run if its paper is totally dessicated, but usual environmental humidity is enough to keep it working.

A 1.5v AA cell can provide about .5 ampere for 1 hour before being exhausted. If the Dry Pile has about the same energy density as a double-A cell and is about 30 times larger in volume, how long will it be able to operate the Franklin's Bell at a recharge rate of several times per second? The answer in years is impressive. These devices were called "Electric Perpetum Mobile." While not truly perpetual, they could outlast their creators by quite a few centuries!

 

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 04, 2012, 12:53:03 AM
I found the article so I posted it(above) here for everyone else to look at since they have been mentioned twice in this thread.triffid.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 04, 2012, 05:00:31 AM
Cool post triffid!
Funny thing: 'Jim' Beaty currently works down at the UW in the physics lab (I think). I subscribe to a monthly 'reminder newsletter' about a 'weird science' get-together on the first friday of every month that he helps organize. I haven't been able to make one yet but I hope to someday!
(EDIT: Who was building that Zamboni pile again?!?)
Happy experimenting all,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 04, 2012, 08:12:09 PM
I thought it was Jbignes5 building the Zamboni pile .I would love to see one five feet tall thats for sure.My buttermilk cells are still very very wet after 24 hours and the voltages are only around 1.4 volts.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 04, 2012, 08:23:36 PM
I would think one could build a small Zamboni pile using aluminum foil, and metal on one side wrapping paper from family dollar and a paper punch.Honey was used for a couple of these things but molasses might work too.Can't make the paper between plates too wet?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 04, 2012, 08:30:06 PM
I can get free honey from Mc Donalds in my area by requesting it for my biscuits.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 04, 2012, 08:47:50 PM
How to Make Electrostatic LoudspeakersbyMark Rehorst markATrehorstcom (http://esl.rehorst.com/)current version date: 6/7/96previous version date: 1/15/96
IntroductionElectrostatic speakers are the just about the lowest distortion drivers that can be made. But you already know about their wonderful attributes or you wouldn't be interested in making them, so I'll dispense with the BS. I present here a simple process for making ESLs. I have not included anything about crossovers or cabinets. This is strictly a "how to make the drivers" article.
Warnings:Before we go any further, I want to warn you about a couple things you may not be aware of. Electrostatic loudspeakers use high voltages to operate. They need a DC bias of up to 5000 V and use AC voltages up to 5000 V. The DC bias is usually supplied by a power supply running off 120VAC electrical circuits which can be dangerous. The AC voltages used to drive the ESL are usually produced by connecting your stereo amp to a vacuum tube amplifier type output transformer. The voltages produced by the transformer are dangerous! Don't screw around! If you have little kids in the house or if anyone might for any reason touch the speakers while they are operating, design your speakers so that it is not possible to come into contact with the drivers. If you don't know how to handle high voltage circuits, enlist the help of someone who does, or buy one of the commercially available ESLs.

Section I: Making the speakersBuilding ESLs involves the use of tools and materials that if handled improperly can be hazardous. Please make sure you know how to use these things before you begin. By all means, use safety glasses at all times. If would be foolish to trade your vision for the pursuit of audio ecstasy!
What you need:1) Transformers, one or two per speaker - use tube amp output transformers, 4 ohm:8K -20K ohm. I have used Tango CRD-8 ( 4:8KCT) transformers that I bought in Japan. You can use transformers by Triad, Stancor, etc. Just get units that are good for about 15-20 W at 30 Hz and give a large impedance (i.e. voltage) transformation. Expect to pay about $50 each for transformers. Tube amp output transformers are available from Antique Electronic Supply, 602-820-5411, and other sources.
2) Plastic film for speaker diaphragms- Mylar or other polyester, thin (5-6 microns), and large enough to make the size of driver you want to build. This can be obtained from companies that make plastics for industry- this film is commonly used to make capacitors (don't get metalized film!). I bought a roll that is 1200 m long by 1 m wide for about $85 in Japan a few years ago. I have used about 15 m of it so far. I have heard of people using Saran-wrap, but I have never heard a driver built using it. If you're making small drivers, or experimenting, try it! It certainly won't cost much...

3) Powdered graphite, dish soap, or antistatic solution to coat diaphragm. Powdered graphite is available from K-mart or your local hardware store for lubricating locks. It will cost no more than $2 for enough to make about 50 speakers. Graphite has to be rubbed into the film using cotton balls. Dish detergent and antistatic solution will work also, and are easier to apply, but may not be "permanent". I use graphite. Someone in Australia suggested that drafting ink formulated for drawing on "film" (the draftsman's name for polyester) will make a good, easy to apply, high resitvity diaphragm coating. I haven't tried it yet, but applying a colored liquid ought to be easy and make it easy to verify that it only went where you wanted it.


I wanted to park the formula for using graphite here.triffid[/size]
[/font]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 04, 2012, 09:27:48 PM
 I have used graphite as both dopant and electrode. In solid form it degreades by fluffing up as salts pull the graphite rod apart. <- via Oxidation.
 The elctrode worked very well by coloring paper with an thick even coating. Paper works well and the one electrode can be drawn on the paper. So we have paper+electrode all in one. I didn't try paper, graphite and aluminum. Carbons eat aluminum pretty well. I'm guessing carbon is full of water and hence eats the aluminum right through. The cap cans that I used are riddled with white puffs on the outside. These puffs are aluminum oxide. When there is plenty of oxygen the oxide grows like a mold. But like I said I didn't try graphite so.


 Gold or silver leaf should be excellent as the other contacts. I am told brass works very well also.... This is due to the non magnetic nature of the brass. No reaction to current/magnetic fields unrestricts potential flow.


 We want to emulate a capacitor but provide a potential to supply it's own current via the diode that gets created from the potential difference of the electrodes. You could think of it as an unlimited cup of potential that we can cause to dumpout and refill from the natural pressure of the universe.

 Since all capacitors utilize static inductive capacitance they are the other side of our equation. They must be designed to balance each other while still creating swirls in the network we live in. These swirls can be harvested or channeled inductively and in a one way fashion or (diode) like behaviorism. These vacuum energy (swirls) can be used to provide the connection only of two or more bodies in space. They connect and a flow gets created.

 My point here is one is the engine and the other is the gas tank in a way. If we create the tank within the engine you get near instant transitions that are magnified. Paired with the magnetic transistor, this would free up the back pressure and further insulate a direct short of the medium via inductive one way capacitance.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 04:00:34 AM
Just a short tutorial on LED lighting and how to get them bright enough to read by.   http://unclean.org/howto/led_circuit.html (http://unclean.org/howto/led_circuit.html)
triffid






Found a new search engine that protects your privacy by creating no history of where you have been on your computer.
www.ixquick.com
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 05, 2012, 03:48:22 PM
Didn't get to build a single cell this weekend... Had to put in a hot water tank and a bathroom sink... Ah well, maybe tonight! Hopefully I get my alum today. The mortar and pestle I ordered arrived with a broken mortar so I used JBweld to fix it. That stuff is awesome! I also received an old (1920's?) potentiometer that was used to test thermocouples. It takes an odd battery so I've ordered an old military one, maybe it will work... Also got a couple big analog meters but I haven't hooked them up to the switch/resistor setup that came with them. Each one has five or six ranges so I will have to figure it how to hook that up and put it (along with the other meters I have) in some sort of case or board...
Anyhow, nothing exciting to report for my weekend...
Happy experimenting all!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 05:01:52 PM
Cute kid on u-tube using his potato battery to power a calculator.Pay attention to his electrodes   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufoOJfzro2c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufoOJfzro2c)  Its never too late to learn something new.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 05:06:03 PM
They say this works,if so an unexpected source of electricity.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CljRc4bN8Ts&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CljRc4bN8Ts&feature=related)  .
I guess theres no reason why it would not.just clean your messy end of the usb cord after each use.triffid




Like I said I do not know if this will work.It could just be a joke.
But if it isn't???


same to be said for the next post too.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 05:15:39 PM
Another u-tube video using pretty much a USB cord as electrodes.Also the guy uses what I would call junk to make his experiment work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuiPDBA3XZI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuiPDBA3XZI&feature=related)  If this really works then maybe we can use USB cords as electrodes in our rock batteries!
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 05:22:22 PM
A simple electric motor that could be made to run off of an crystal battery.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJWJXaWz94k&feature=endscreen&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJWJXaWz94k&feature=endscreen&NR=1)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 05:56:31 PM
More circuits using LEDs includes design for a joule thief.   http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/LEDTorchCircuits-P1.html (http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/LEDTorchCircuits-P1.html)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 06:12:12 PM
This guy is using an icetray for his earth battery but it reminds me of my egg carton panels.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eztcSWZpfJg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eztcSWZpfJg&feature=related)  Look at his and you see what mine looks like.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 05, 2012, 07:46:20 PM
 You know I was thinking about diodes and it appeared to me to be something special. most diodes need a certain amount to potential difference (voltage) that it causes it to conduct. Typical ranges of this switch on point is roughly .2v-???Volts... Since Voltage leads current ie a voltage difference must be maintained to cause conduction, once that potential hits a threshold it conducts. We should use this diode in a natural switch mode. It blocks anything below that threshold then it switches on at a predetermined level. A diode across a suitable cap should make for an interesting combination. If we make the cap in the cell of ours it should be very interesting at the bursting capability of that device. Series and parallel modes should be used because that will allow for a bigger push capable active capacitor.


 The active capacitor now transcends the regular capacitor. With "Active" meaning it supplies the oscillation and the voltage(potential) that is pulsed. The more you short it the more it fills from the surrounding environment. There seems to be ways to diffuse the environment network which gives it more connections or a higher density to conduct. This is the vibration on a network wide scale. With the network being the whole of the universe. Learn to listen in on those vibrations and you have the power of the universe in your hands.

 Another avenue that can help us in attaining more power could be the magnetic amplifier. This new approach will allow for the conduction based on the toughness of copper and inductive fields and not solely on silicon which is severely limited amperage wise.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 05, 2012, 08:16:58 PM


 Hmmm.. Drats!


http://www.nuenergy.org/experiments/perreault_cap.htm (http://www.nuenergy.org/experiments/perreault_cap.htm)

 But this might shed some light on the subject as well...

http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py106/Capacitors.html
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 05, 2012, 11:40:55 PM
My buttermilk cells need more drying out.48 hours is not enough drying time for them.Maybe I should have added vineagar like up to 5 drops in each cell.The voltages by themselves with just buttermilk are around 1.4 volts.With the vineagar cells I got 1.67 volts in the beginning.I went to radio shack today and bought some transisters to make blinking LED circuits using 9 volt batteries.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 06, 2012, 03:49:11 PM
You know I was thinking about diodes and it appeared to me to be something special. most diodes need a certain amount to potential difference (voltage) that it causes it to conduct. Typical ranges of this switch on point is roughly .2v-???Volts... Since Voltage leads current ie a voltage difference must be maintained to cause conduction, once that potential hits a threshold it conducts. We should use this diode in a natural switch mode. It blocks anything below that threshold then it switches on at a predetermined level. A diode across a suitable cap should make for an interesting combination. If we make the cap in the cell of ours it should be very interesting at the bursting capability of that device. Series and parallel modes should be used because that will allow for a bigger push capable active capacitor.
 The active capacitor now transcends the regular capacitor. With "Active" meaning it supplies the oscillation and the voltage(potential) that is pulsed. The more you short it the more it fills from the surrounding environment. There seems to be ways to diffuse the environment network which gives it more connections or a higher density to conduct. This is the vibration on a network wide scale. With the network being the whole of the universe. Learn to listen in on those vibrations and you have the power of the universe in your hands.
 Another avenue that can help us in attaining more power could be the magnetic amplifier. This new approach will allow for the conduction based on the toughness of copper and inductive fields and not solely on silicon which is severely limited amperage wise.

@ Jbignes5: You know, it didn't occur to me to use diodes like that but it makes perfect sense!! How small can can you find diodes? My electronics (basic college text) book says you're stuck with about 0.7v loss on a diode... If you're using it as a transistor then you just have to have enough cells to go over that mark, right? Shouldn't be too tough for any of us (heh heh)... Silicon is okay, my intuition tells me that silica will probably be one of my cell ingredients before I'm through... Jeeze, I need more time to play with...

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I purchased an old single pulse signal generator!! I think it works on a 12v DC input so I will be able to test my idea that the cells can be brought back up to full voltage with a single pulse.  More data anyways... (I hope I don't have to rebuild it, it is already missing the variable knob...) It will arrive next week probably...
With the generator I can make the pulses pretty short (uSec scale I think) and watch what happens on a VOM or, hopefully, see what happens on my scope.
That mortar I repaired works great! I now have a bottle of finely crushed epsom salt for my next batch of electrolyte. :)

Anyhow, happy experimenting everyone!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 06, 2012, 04:47:34 PM



 Yes it does make sense now that we have seen things like blocking oscillators and that kind of circuits. The diode and cap combination will be all one unit with the magnetic amp in cascade mode with other cells allowing for some incredible amping up of the cells discharges.


 The Magnetic transistor looks to be well established especially where durability is a requirement. and since it is made of coils the magnetic amp is a purely passive device except for what it amplifies. We just might have the whole package finally figured out.


 The better diodes seem to be included in most transistors. So we might be stuck there. Well unless you start looking at cat whisker diodes. <==Crystal!


The real diode in this case is the crystal matrix that is developed in the cell. With out the active inductive diode we set up by bringing these two different electrodes together we would have very little action and the crystal forms in it's natural state. But when you maintain the polarization of that crystal while it is forming it will grow in the direction of energy field in between the electrodes we present. So in effect we are conditioning the crystal formation to resist flow backwards. The growth period for this kind of density would be extremely high. Properly sized crystals that form as the solution evaporates. Oxygen must be used in the forming of the crystals base. After that they will change. They get thinner and spiny. Great outcroppings or bushes of these crystals form at nodes on the electrodes. Just like any living system we must exercise to grow strong and it is the same way with these. But once you get a great base to start with you will get a strong one.


 My strong one was the first one I made. The glass one I showed already. I learned a lot from that one. With the proper amount of borax around the aluminum I found an aquas solution that had salt added to it was fine for upto 3-4 months I believe. The glass allowed me to check on the crystal structure that was growing on the aluminum and glass. I know it was very very wet in there I disturbed it by tipping it over and I could see the water. It was not fully formed yet when I took it apart. So maybe another 4-5 months would have completed the formation I am guessing.


 Two reasons for the early dissection of that cell. One is my failing health and the other is that all my other cells dried up and I lost voltage to run the led head I was using. The led head was from a shake up flashlight. It had it's own full wave bridge rectifier built in with a 5v super cap as well that was on a switch. All I did was bridge the full wave in parallel and connected the cells directly to the led unit. With the switch off it ran the led straight and with the switch on it would parallel the cel with the supercap and charge that was well.


 The light from the leds were not that bright but acceptable for testing. When I had it charge the cap as well it lowered the voltage but not by much. You could tell it was running the cells hard to charge that cap. But it worked for short bursts of 1-2 minutes then swap back to run the led. I actually got the voltage to stay the same so that meant the electrodes were not degrading in the cells. As the cells dried out they lost a lot of the push they showed. But after I started adding bulk water it rejuvenated the flow. This I found to be a problem and is most likey due to the evaporation of the water from the crystalline structure. My first wet cell worked well and like I said was the most strongest cell to date.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 06, 2012, 07:03:40 PM
Failing health is never good to hear about.I have cataracts and will have surgery to remove them soon,next couple of months I figure.Then I can see clearly again.I have been told its a walk in the park.I hope so.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 06, 2012, 07:22:54 PM
Its been 72 hours since I put together my buttermilk cells.I just sealed them with more glue-all and mortons salt sub.I will seal them with wax about 48 hours or longer from now.I saw black corrosion for the first time on my magnesium strips and green corrosion on the copper electrodes.So much for buttermilk protecting anything I guess.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 07, 2012, 03:22:52 AM
I put together a high voltage salt water capacitor tonight and hooked it up to two cells that were powering a small Led.Ill read the voltage in the morning.I expect the cells to charge it up to their combined voltage and no more.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 07, 2012, 04:14:37 AM
Its been 72 hours since I put together my buttermilk cells.I just sealed them with more glue-all and mortons salt sub.I will seal them with wax about 48 hours or longer from now.I saw black corrosion for the first time on my magnesium strips and green corrosion on the copper electrodes.So much for buttermilk protecting anything I guess.triffid

Black on the magnesium is good triffid! Green on the copper not so good...
I finally got to make a cell tonight! Four carbon electrodes and one aluminum in the middle... Looks like one of the carbon electrodes doesn't work as well as the others but I will post more on that cell in a day or two. Got a nice hard mix fairly quickly (15mins!) out of what I used: 1/3 cup Durhams, 1/3 cup finely crushed epsom salt, and 2 TBsp H2O. Not the voltage readings I'm after but it continues to prove the point about multiple 'trodes... Need to test more...

Happy experimenting everyone!
PC

(EDIT: Sorry to hear about the ill health there guys... Best wishes!)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: Tudi on March 07, 2012, 08:58:08 AM
in case it has not been pointed out so far :
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-efficiency.html
( similar principle then the crystal cells )
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 07, 2012, 03:44:00 PM
I knew it.. Leds do have a coast mode. And this is why some have great reports for many many lights in a row! Now we know why.


 But is it related? Well sort of. I think it is the diode that we should be interested in and not the light emitting part. The light emitting part is only half of the picture here. Maybe just maybe this is what Dr. Moray found out. except this was with a huge diode he created and of course higher currents but the same voltages. This brings up what he tuned the diodes to react to and hence the long wire for the antenna.


 If we start to look at the setup we could understand the process he used. The bigger the diode the harder we can push the cells before reverse conduction begins. You could think of it as a chamber that holds water. Now divide the water with a flat plane like a sheet of glass. Now when you shake it back and forth across the plane it will splash up and down as well. This action will also toss some water back and forth between the two halves. The diode it appears is the glass separator. the larger the surface area of the diode the larger the divider becomes and the less break down between the two divisions of liquid. But they are both diamagnetic. They react weakly with each other. Since water is highly resistant to pressures you can modulate one end and still get the same modulation out of the other end, even with the divider(diode). This is because of the diamagenetic effect between two surfaces of water. No direct connection is allowed normally and since the plates are very very close there will also be a certain capacity as well. So we have a inductive component as well as a capacitance to hold the reaction. Once the capacitance is fulfilled the rest flows around it and conducts in a reverse direction. Kinda like a speed bump with our current technology.


 What I think we are trying to create is a process that has little room for travel. Meaning a locked in conduction path that can be expanded through growth of a crystal.


 Crystals are very very important and through exploration of their geometry you will understand the complex flows they create. Not only are they a very very big surface areas, they take water to make. Yes even diamonds take water. Thats usually held in the carbon. I believe that crystals can be used as a one way valve. A modulated one way valve. A transistor on the molecular scale. This is done by modulating the tank instead of the valve and let the valve use the waves to self actuate via wavering voltage pressure. We also have to program the growth via the active growth method. This growth method is pretty self adjusted and is usually termed stamina in areas like biology. Workout then rest, work out then rest. This lets defects remove themselves by natural selection and then allow for rebuilding of weak portions of the cells via rest periods.


 So in my honest opinion the diodes we need to make will be substantial in surface area. They will have a crystalline subdivision to create a focusing effect and be split from end to end. My new design will be two electrodes that are external. one on each side of the component. They will be exposed to one side of the environment and be a part of the container for the crystalline structure. And there should be a center neutral conductor to receive the amplified output. Gold being my first thought then carbon/graphite. Each side will have it's own potential when referenced to the center electrode or a wide separation of the sides when referenced to each other. When we modulate between the outer electrodes the center electrode should be amplified through the crystal then deposited to the center electrode. Maybe. I have not tested this idea completely yet.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 07, 2012, 05:07:51 PM



 My proposed plan is to try the triode type method. like stated already in the above post.


 The cell would then be hooked to a mag-amp with the center electrode going to the signal input of the mag amp. The mag amp is them bridging the two electrodes as the collector emitter. This is a self charging active transistor. I am thinking that  they work on a frequency we have not understood very well.


 As we are finding out space is rife with audio. Nasa listens very carefully to those sounds after they have been converted. This is a very noisy universe we live in. Once we tap into this natural power we must be vigilant that it does not get perverted. With all of it's apparent powers, is that it has no limits. But it does have it's effects if it is not handled with the respect it needs to be handled with. Tesla was very clear about the frequencies used. That energy could be tuned by the device to supply just about anything one wanted. From light to heat to spontaneous light and heat that was no where near the device.


 Tesla's way to get this frequency was to use nature itself. The magnetic spark gap was pure genius. an analogue device that used the fabric of space to provide any frequency he desired. He so chose the higher potentials to stimulate a hug chunk of the environment around the device. B ut that is not necessary. If one thought about it as we are in the pressure already all one would have to do was poke a hole and control the holes size to regulate the flow.


Bah I'm floating again...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 07, 2012, 06:29:05 PM


 We also have to understand that if thought out well we could design a universal capacitor. This is a device that will store huge amounts of energy. We do this by coupling a few Tesla design methods. One being the bifilar pancake coil and immersible oil bath dielectrics. One thing I got from the whole Tesla bit was that oils tend to make the fields contained with a dynamic flow to it.


 What if we redesign the capacitors we would need to generate the power. The caps would become units of parallel bi-metal Tesla flat bifilar coils suspended in an oil bath with a glass or plastic insert to hold the coils up. The bimetal is the active portion and just means two different metals are fused together in the traditional design. One wire is made of copper lets say and the other magnesium. The outside of that should be a can of aluminum. The many parallel coils would reduce it's resistance and majorly increase it's current output! It's power would be immense if done on a larger scale. These would be great devices of a surface that is more powerful then any suns capability. It's ability to maintain a charge will  be immense once it is started. Cooling of the device should be thought of in the design of the aluminum can before any attempts to try this experiment. We barely know the abilities of this kind of device using these kind of fields. I am sure the aluminum can must be engineered to be a super structure to contain the fields. Heating issues will be a problem but aluminum does have it strength if properly alloyed. The can in this case is just a static reflector. A shaped reflector that must be able to handle huge pressures. We could always use multiple reflectors on the outside in order to back up the interior reflectors.


 Shields and technology then would become enhancing the field already there around that object. Polarizing would enhance this field and we can now polarize at the frequency of that matter. We just need to feed it back via static induction and we can now do that through magnetic amplifiers. The only problem is physical then. If the shell breaks so does the field.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 07, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
What one reader posted about 230%efficient LED article 
Mar 05, 2012 Rank: [color=rgb(139, 0, 0) !important]3.3[/color] / 5 (6)
This LED is not 100% efficient, it just employs thermoelectric current instead of galvanic one. You can power the normal LED with thermocouple with the same result. In this rudimentary case the PN junction inside of LED just serves as such thermocouple.http://www.youtub...D2pxvxgU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNND2pxvxgU)report (http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-efficiency.html)[/li]
[li]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 07, 2012, 10:39:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=JQUY_bs59a4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=JQUY_bs59a4)   He gets 80 mas from a thermocouple junction with a clamp on volt meter So he provides no load.  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 07, 2012, 10:47:15 PM
Another reader posted this tidbit from the LED article  Unless it is meant to be a shock article, it is completely commonplace for a diode to emit light, even when no voltage is applied at all! Quoting a photonics textbook:[/size]
"At room temperature, the intrinsic concentration of electrons and holes in GaAs is n1 == 1.8 * 10^6 cm^-3. Since the radiative electron-hole recombination coefficient rr == 10^-10 cm^3/s, the electroluminescence rate Rrnp=RrN^2i == 324 photons/ cm^3-s... this corresponds to an optical power density == 7.4 * 10^-17 W/cm^3."Photodiodes will emit light on their own, and a semiconductor with a lower bandgap will emit even more equilibrium light than GaAs. Since clearly this is a non-equilibrium system, there is probably more to it than just that.report (http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-efficiency.html)[/li]
[li]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 07, 2012, 10:52:39 PM
 GaAs is ten times faster than silicon when its used to make a chip according to a MIT lecture I saw online.Same design but use a different material( GaAs)   and you get chips that are ten times faster than silicon chips.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 07, 2012, 11:09:42 PM
12 gauge copper wire and 14 gauge steel wire might produce more amps in my cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 08, 2012, 01:42:41 AM
What one reader posted about 230%efficient LED article 
Mar 05, 2012 Rank: [color=rgb(139, 0, 0) !important]3.3[/color] / 5 (6)
This LED is not 100% efficient, it just employs thermoelectric current instead of galvanic one. You can power the normal LED with thermocouple with the same result. In this rudimentary case the PN junction inside of LED just serves as such thermocouple.http://www.youtub...D2pxvxgU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNND2pxvxgU)report (http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-03-efficiency.html)[/li]
[li]


Thank you for showing us the two copper thermocouple videos, this was a really cool video. I always thought in-order to make a thermocouple you needed two dissimilar metals and heat one of them, I never knew you could do it with just copper!  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 08, 2012, 01:45:03 AM
I'm working on a concept for a new circuit that be able to power LED on micro-amps. The proof of concept worked but more testing is underway.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 08, 2012, 03:02:56 AM

This law is interpreted to mean that the addition of different metals to a circuit will not affect the voltage the circuit creates. The added junctions are to be at the same temperature as the junctions in the circuit. For example, a third metal such as copper leads may be added to help take a measurement. This is why thermocouples may be used with digital multimeters or other electrical components. It is also why solder may be used to join metals to form thermocouples.[/font][/size]

Read more: Thermocouple Laws | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/about_5517216_thermocouple-laws.html#ixzz1oUDRrqBg)[/color] http://www.ehow.com/about_5517216_thermocouple-laws.html#ixzz1oUDRrqBg (http://www.ehow.com/about_5517216_thermocouple-laws.html#ixzz1oUDRrqBg)[/color][/size][/font]



 IB2,I did not know about that little trick either.I have learned to read comments others post in an article like that .Sometimes you find a real gem.I knew red copper oxide was photosensitive but I did not know it would turn heat into electricity.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 08, 2012, 03:08:36 AM
I am trying to get ideas from everywhere on electrodes and how to hook them up.I liked how he connected his 16 thermcouples in a ring without solder. for instance.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 08, 2012, 03:31:51 PM
I knew it.. Leds do have a coast mode. And this is why some have great reports for many many lights in a row! Now we know why.


 But is it related? Well sort of. I think it is the diode that we should be interested in and not the light emitting part. The light emitting part is only half of the picture here. Maybe just maybe this is what Dr. Moray found out. except this was with a huge diode he created and of course higher currents but the same voltages. This brings up what he tuned the diodes to react to and hence the long wire for the antenna.


 If we start to look at the setup we could understand the process he used. The bigger the diode the harder we can push the cells before reverse conduction begins. You could think of it as a chamber that holds water. Now divide the water with a flat plane like a sheet of glass. Now when you shake it back and forth across the plane it will splash up and down as well. This action will also toss some water back and forth between the two halves. The diode it appears is the glass separator. the larger the surface area of the diode the larger the divider becomes and the less break down between the two divisions of liquid. But they are both diamagnetic. They react weakly with each other. Since water is highly resistant to pressures you can modulate one end and still get the same modulation out of the other end, even with the divider(diode). This is because of the diamagenetic effect between two surfaces of water. No direct connection is allowed normally and since the plates are very very close there will also be a certain capacity as well. So we have a inductive component as well as a capacitance to hold the reaction. Once the capacitance is fulfilled the rest flows around it and conducts in a reverse direction. Kinda like a speed bump with our current technology.


 What I think we are trying to create is a process that has little room for travel. Meaning a locked in conduction path that can be expanded through growth of a crystal.


 Crystals are very very important and through exploration of their geometry you will understand the complex flows they create. Not only are they a very very big surface areas, they take water to make. Yes even diamonds take water. Thats usually held in the carbon. I believe that crystals can be used as a one way valve. A modulated one way valve. A transistor on the molecular scale. This is done by modulating the tank instead of the valve and let the valve use the waves to self actuate via wavering voltage pressure. We also have to program the growth via the active growth method. This growth method is pretty self adjusted and is usually termed stamina in areas like biology. Workout then rest, work out then rest. This lets defects remove themselves by natural selection and then allow for rebuilding of weak portions of the cells via rest periods.


 So in my honest opinion the diodes we need to make will be substantial in surface area. They will have a crystalline subdivision to create a focusing effect and be split from end to end. My new design will be two electrodes that are external. one on each side of the component. They will be exposed to one side of the environment and be a part of the container for the crystalline structure. And there should be a center neutral conductor to receive the amplified output. Gold being my first thought then carbon/graphite. Each side will have it's own potential when referenced to the center electrode or a wide separation of the sides when referenced to each other. When we modulate between the outer electrodes the center electrode should be amplified through the crystal then deposited to the center electrode. Maybe. I have not tested this idea completely yet.

@ Jbignes5: You always make me want to drink more coffee in the morning for some reason... ;)
So you're talking a long skinny cell with (same material) electrodes on either end and a different electrode buried in the center (mostly) dividing the electrolyte mass of the cell to help balance that 'tipping point', or maybe to put it better, to give the voltage another direction that we want it to go rather than back to itself. The sloshing cut-in-half glass of water was a great analogy BTW... So a couple pultruded carbon pieces on either end of an electrolyte and a hunk of aluminum sheeting to 'cut' the cell mostly in half. Maybe try putting a hole in the center  of the aluminum first? The size of the hole would be easy enough to measure against other sizes right? Aluminum screen might work, I have some of that :). Hmmm... Now I need more coffee, see?!

Happy experimenting everyone,
PC
Capacitors have little holes in their plates...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 08, 2012, 06:07:00 PM

In this proof of concept video I show that even though you have low amps you can still find a way to power a LED just fine by adjusting the time variable. These crystal glue cells in the video give only a few micro-amps but they give me plenty of voltage and I use that to my advantage. Since you only need 3 volts to power a LED I put 3 crystal glue cells in series to give me over 3 volts. I have the cells charge up a capacitor and since the capacitor has a low internal resistance I can discharge it quickly into a LED and thus lighting the LED. If i do this quick enough with a small enough farad capacitor I can have the LED blink faster than the eye can picks up just like how a joule thief does so it seems like the LED is on all the time. Using a capacitor will allow even the low power cells to do useful work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNhvvSiKzOs
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jsd453 on March 08, 2012, 06:43:11 PM
Here is a unique application for lighting.  Thought you might find this interesting.
http://www.designrulz.com/gadgets/2012/03/gaia-bio-lamp-mobile-natural-ambiant-light/ (http://www.designrulz.com/gadgets/2012/03/gaia-bio-lamp-mobile-natural-ambiant-light/)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on March 08, 2012, 09:25:14 PM
  Ib2 and All:
  You can't light the led, with no current.  The capacitor will charge up to the same voltage and current that the cells have, and will discharge in one second, it will not light the led like you think.  This is nothing new here, that many have not tried before, and as John B has mentioned,  you need current... 
   I know that as usual you and others here will not believe me, or even what John has mentioned many times, about current being needed, but you'll see it for yourselves. 
  How many years and different low current cells will it take before you all realize this?
 
                                                                                                      NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 08, 2012, 10:50:31 PM
We might be burning the led at both ends here but I have no problems with lighting them myself.I sealed 5 cells(one died out of six buttermilk cells0 with wax today(top voltage at 1.45 volts per cell).The dead one appears to be dead because the copper electrode is not in the crystal mass?With three of these cells in series,my led is burning brightly.


Like everyone else here I am after more amps in these things.So lets use bigger wires.12 gauge copper wire is bigger than 29 gauge wire.More acids if I can find them.Use solder to make connections.Make the electrodes in the shapes of coils?More epsom salts?Whatever it takes.Using copper oxide electrodes instead of just copper.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on March 09, 2012, 12:55:59 AM
    triffid and All:
   I have been reading this thread since it started, and I don't see anyone here with anything that works.  You say that your three cells are lighting brightly, well what I am saying is that they are not. Please show us, as this peanut butter and jelly type of cells aren't going to last, or do anything useful.  You are trying to reinvent the wheel, but your cell have no current to show for.  Nor does Ib2. This has all been tried before, learn what has or has not worked, unless you want to make play cells forever.
   Ib2 is afraid to show his big cells to the internet because he thinks that someone will kill him for them, or...
   Common guys, wake up. Are you really seriously satisfied with what you've got. Voltage is easy to obtain, but it won't do much without current. And is not going to happen with just using junk and some salts, like kids 5th grade experiments.
  No current no light,  I stand by it. 
   Sorry to be such a bore, I guess I don't have the patients anymore.
   It's 2012, you know.
                                    NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 01:29:09 AM
I think this video clip is very important. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLaZnjk23HU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLaZnjk23HU)  It shows how to deposit carbon from plastic onto electrodes you can use in your crystal cells.They don't tell what the liquid used is but they do say its non acidic.The guy who made the video thinks small electric charges are very important.So lets not say our cells are useless just yet.triffid
Second part of the video clip.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y4HYmqGuwE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y4HYmqGuwE&feature=related)




I would try tap water first.
then baking soda water.
maybe salt water then.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 01:38:54 AM


In this video (two parts: total 15 minutes) Nuclear engineer Keshe demonstrates with a non-acidic liquid inside a simple waste-bottle, used as a plasma reactor, that it is possible to create low levels of energy and that atomic carbon-layers are deposited on the inside electrodes, which is confirmed by a Nuclear Center after independent replication, and is confirmed by a leading Nano-Institute in Europe after Raman spectroscopy. For the creation of the carbon sp2 and sp3 and the energy, no additional sources like magnets, lasers, arcs or gamma rays is used. Seehttp://www.keshetechnologies.com/keshe_pure_plasma.html (http://www.keshetechnologies.com/keshe_pure_plasma.html)

The experiment happens at room temperature and normal atmospheric pressure.

To Keshe, the physical interactions and events which are forced inside the plasma reactor are similar or identical to those that happen over a longer time-scale on micro- and macro-level in the Universe, like the formation of stars and galaxies, supernova's, black holes, dark matter, gravitational effects, radiation, fission and fusion, and so on.
Category:Science & Technology (http://www.youtube.com/science)Tags:
plasma (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=plasma&search=tag) graphene (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=graphene&search=tag) reactor (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reactor&search=tag) bottle (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bottle&search=tag) keshe (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=keshe&search=tag) universe (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=universe&search=tag) energy (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=energy&search=tag) nano (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nano&search=tag)
License:Standard YouTube License
[size=0.9166em]


[/font]
[/size][/color]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 09, 2012, 02:30:08 AM
  Ib2 and All:
  You can't light the led, with no current.  The capacitor will charge up to the same voltage and current that the cells have, and will discharge in one second, it will not light the led like you think.  This is nothing new here, that many have not tried before, and as John B has mentioned,  you need current... 
   I know that as usual you and others here will not believe me, or even what John has mentioned many times, about current being needed, but you'll see it for yourselves. 
  How many years and different low current cells will it take before you all realize this?
 
                                                                                                      NickZ

@ NickZ:
Well Nick, thanks for the positive comments! I'm sure you've tried hundreds of cells yourself and know it is impossible to do anything with them except light one LED at a time. No doubt you have other devices you have created that generate little voltages and microcurrents that are totally useless... We aren't trying to reinvent the wheel here, we are trying to discover NEW wheels... Do you think the first battery ever made was a long-term success with stellar current? NOT everything we are doing here has 'been done before'...
So Nick, why don't you go tell some other group (preferrably political) that they are wasting their time. Your posts aren't helpful here to any of us, they are a waste of YOUR time (and mine...I'd hate to speak for anyone else here...).

Happy happy happy experimenting with our little voltage micro current cells guys!!
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 09, 2012, 03:00:05 AM
Triffid and Phi Don't let NickZ get to you.


@NickZ, First you insult John Bedini over at Heretical builders but now you're starting to sound like him. Lets just say I worry about you NickZ.
NickZ if you have nothing nice to post over here in this thread than take it somewhere else, like Phi said you're wasting your time, I have more important things to worry about than your negative feed back. Peace.



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: NickZ on March 09, 2012, 03:34:30 AM
    Well Guys: You are right just keep right on going, without me. I won't bother you again with my suggestions, as YOU ALL know better.
    I have not insulted anyone, and it is my opinion of what is happening,  I have run out of patients. You think that you are right,  about making more of these no current cells, if you haven't noticed yet,  they don't work...
   Ib:  Don't worry about me.  Both John and I have mentioned the same thing to you repeatedly.  I have given many positive post but no one is listening, including you. 
   
                       NickZ
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 06:53:08 AM
All too often things end with people shouting at each other.I found something else   http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Thermopile-from-some-Copper-wire-and-Paper-/step3/Build-a-Thermopile/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Thermopile-from-some-Copper-wire-and-Paper-/step3/Build-a-Thermopile/)    Using copper wire and paperclips.The lesson here is that junk can work.I had a mother who said no to me having a lab when I was a teenager.I had collected bits and pieces of stuff to start one for three years.When I finally thought I was ready to put it together she said NONONONONO.I said why not.She said because I said so.I was very upset because I had a yes three years before and I spent time collecting and learning more science.So I never had a lab at her house.After that I went off to college and never lived with her under her roof.HER ROOF HER RULES.She died in 1994.The house she lived in and refused to let me have a small lab there got torn down and taken to the landfill.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 07:09:12 AM
The thermopile I posted a link to can generate a whopping 0.012 volts!The crystal cells can do far better when it comes to volts.But thermocouples can generate hundeds of amps.I saw one one time generate enough current to lift a 10 kilogram weight.A bunsen burner flame was on one junction and room temp air on the other junction.The coil was one turn of metal strip around what passed for an electromagnet.[/font][/size]
It was in a physics lab in college.A thermocouple that was an electromagnet..I am trying to blend some aspects of a thermocouple with these crystal cells.I cant solder magnesium to copper.Not without it burning up in flames.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 07:26:22 AM
I don't know why NickZ says our cells don't work.Did he expect a 500 kilowatt cell?I know I thought I had 10 kilowatts a week until you guys told me I only had milliwatts.I thought at that time to stop but these crystal cells had me at .14 volts.One of the first crystal cells I had made with morton salt sub is still generating 1.02 volts.You really cant use too many dangerous chemicals at home.Some people have kids and pets,others tend to lick their fingers and poison themselves that way.You get too many chemicals at home and you have to start worrying about government rules.6th grade science experiments at home is ok.Better to be safe.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 09, 2012, 12:35:30 PM
I don't know why NickZ says our cells don't work.Did he expect a 500 kilowatt cell?I know I thought I had 10 kilowatts a week until you guys told me I only had milliwatts.I thought at that time to stop but these crystal cells had me at .14 volts.One of the first crystal cells I had made with morton salt sub is still generating 1.02 volts.You really cant use too many dangerous chemicals at home.Some people have kids and pets,others tend to lick their fingers and poison themselves that way.You get too many chemicals at home and you have to start worrying about government rules.6th grade science experiments at home is ok.Better to be safe.triffid




On the other forum they called my cells nothing more than a  potato clock or a 5 grade experiment. They said my cell powering my LCD clock is nothing more than a potato clock, but the fact is that a potato powered clock only last for a week and my cells is still powering the clock for months now without a drop of water. I have done something that the others haven't done, and that was to keep voltage alive without the use of water. They say the things i use are childish things but what they don't realize is that our houses are full of chemicals of all kinds that are plum for picking. They see elmer's glue, I see a complex polymer of plastic that has a strong bond. They see dish detergent, I see a complex form of chemicals such as sodium hydrate, potassium hydrate, calcium carbonate, etc. We can't let the others get to us, I'm here to innovate so if it requires us to use milk than so be it, nothing ventured is nothing gained. Keep up the good work guys!  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 09, 2012, 05:36:12 PM
 One simple question guys?


 Is there a difference between 1 amp at 12 volts and 12 amps at 1 volt?


 They say high voltage has no merit well to tell you the truth it merits tons of observations. Every knows that energy always follows the path of least resistance. High voltage has very low currents but it should be the same as low voltage at high currents. The trick is learning to convert and use the energy at the same time. High voltage generators would involve very little resistances and very little back force if the coils are properly designed.


 What we do with 2k volts and .2 amps is the trick. We can convert it down and get more then we would need to drive traditional loads. And since the source doesn't reflect back to the source it redirects that reflection back into the stream.


 I really like the contributions of nickz. He challenges our thinking and that drives us to find the answers. Just because Bedini has convinced him of his ideas of the process doesn't make it the truth of the experiment. Our experiments have swirved off tracks and now two opposing experiments are clashing heads. No problem. Just don't confuse the two experiments. One consumes a fuel(water) and the other utilizes the water for making discreet connections that are multiplicative.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 08:56:16 PM
I have no problem with people working in different directions and for different reasons.It sounded like NickZ was a researcher like the rest of us.He did make contributions That I paid attention to and respected.Other times he sounded like an energy company plant to tell us we are doing is no good and will never amount to a hill of beans.I did not like the two face attitude.I wish him well no matter his motivations.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 09:11:26 PM
The buttermilk/vitamin C cells did not turn out as strong as I wanted them to be.I used buttermilk in the hope that what made it sour would give me a small boost in power plus milk itself is considered a glue by some people.I still want to use(up to five drops in each cell) vineagar in my cells.But I have to protect the magnesium metal somehow.Maybe I can use copper oxide coated copper wires to protect the copper electrodes.Fortunately I found a video that showed me how to coat my copper wires.Just heat them up on the hot plate plate until they turn red.When they turn black with the second type of copper oxide.That may work too?But red oxide is my target for now.Butter milk plus up to five drops of vineagar may work.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 09:22:12 PM
It really isn't safe to get too many weird chemicals at home.I once got interviewed for a job in a chemistry lab by a guy without a face.His face had been blown off in an explosion in the same lab two years before.I just got sicker and sicker during the interview.I did not throw up but I realized I wanted to keep my good looks and did not take the job.It was for an oil company.Down through the years I took notice when people died on the job for oil companies.BP took out(killed) 11 people on their rig in the gulf coast region last summer.I thought often about that situation.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 09:30:23 PM
I need to coat the magnesium metal maybe with oxide or carbon?Maybe coat it with Elmer's glue and Morton salt sub?Then let it dry?I want to get bigger copper 12 gauge wire for sure.And some 14 gauge steel wire.So I guess I could get that at a hardware store sooner or later.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 10:05:14 PM

 Nuclear engineer M.T. Keshe thinks that very small amounts of electricity are very important.Hes talking about being able to generate  1/1000 volts to 3/1000 volts wherever we go in space.He thinks we need to go into space and never need to come home for supplies.He says hes found a way to travel to the moon in seconds not four days.Across the solar system in minutes.I listened to a video of him that lasted an hour and forty minutes on u-tube yesterday.[/color][/font][/size]
He says he has found a way to generate new matter from the universe,even food.He has people visiting him with police officers and black helicopters flying over his house to warn him not to show his generator to the audience.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 10:11:20 PM
When people tell you your stuff does not work and you know better.It could be that you are being watched.When you are making new types of batteries from the supermarket they do not like that.Be careful guys.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: b_rads on March 09, 2012, 10:35:09 PM
I need to coat the magnesium metal maybe with oxide or carbon?Maybe coat it with Elmer's glue and Morton salt sub?Then let it dry?I want to get bigger copper 12 gauge wire for sure.And some 14 gauge steel wire.So I guess I could get that at a hardware store sooner or later.triffid
Stefan has shown that acrylic binder, sold in art stores works.  I have been very happy with this method.  Acrylic binder mixed with an oxide (I like chromic oxide but others work well also) is conductive. 
Brad S
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 09, 2012, 11:52:41 PM
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=m.t.keshe&view=detail&mid=60EB4456CFF9E7995D2260EB4456CFF9E7995D22&first=0&FORM=LKVR (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=m.t.keshe&view=detail&mid=60EB4456CFF9E7995D2260EB4456CFF9E7995D22&first=0&FORM=LKVR)


the hour and forty minutes long video I watched the other day.Sorry its on bing,not u-tube after all.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 10, 2012, 12:03:09 AM
A really high tech brake on a homopolar motor.Another reason why I'm not too worried about the human race.Someone will invent something that will save us.   http://www.videosurf.com/video/homopolar-motor-with-emergency-brake-system-55999077 (http://www.videosurf.com/video/homopolar-motor-with-emergency-brake-system-55999077)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 10, 2012, 12:06:17 AM
Another motor for your crystal cells to operate.   http://www.videosurf.com/video/homopolar-motor-demonstration-51805651 (http://www.videosurf.com/video/homopolar-motor-demonstration-51805651)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 10, 2012, 12:08:47 AM
Thanks b-rads,I will look into it.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 10, 2012, 04:50:34 AM
Got my caps in the mail a couple days ago. :)
I've charged one up a bit with one of my cells that I've used for a little of everything. It puts out over a volt but falls to around 0.7v (I think, haven't had time to do much measuring lately...)
The weekend is here though, so I get some time to mess around with the single pulse generator that I also got... Too bad my scope is an old one with no memory; I can see the pulses but I think an outside trigger would probably work better than the momentary contact button that is in the center of the unit. It is kind of laughable but it does do longer and shorter pulses so I can try using it for some tests sometime in the future. I will take some pics maybe this weekend of my setup. I've also got a vintage Simpson 0-100 microamp meter coming. Will be nice to have a decent meter in the range I'm working in. Good measurements means good data anyways...
Still waiting for my alum to arrive... I did a three carbon-one aluminum 'trode with epsom and mediterranean sea salt the day before yesterday. I think if I used the same mix with an aspirin it could/would harden WAY faster. It is pretty firm at 48hrs but it won't be truly hard in the middle for another couple days (at least).
Time to get some chores done. Measurements to be taken tomorrow...

Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 10, 2012, 06:07:50 PM
Hey all,
Got to use the dollar for two ice cube trays I got a couple days ago with three new cells today. Also took a pic of all my cells spread out on my work area just 'cuz...
You can see I have quite a few heh heh... Sorry the pic is kinda dark and blurry, my phone doesn't have a great camera... Anyhow, the weekend is here so have fun everyone!

Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 10, 2012, 10:37:16 PM
Hey all,
Got to use the dollar for two ice cube trays I got a couple days ago with three new cells today. Also took a pic of all my cells spread out on my work area just 'cuz...
You can see I have quite a few heh heh... Sorry the pic is kinda dark and blurry, my phone doesn't have a great camera... Anyhow, the weekend is here so have fun everyone!

Happy experimenting,
PC


Very nice selection of cells you got.  :)


I like the idea of using ice cube trays.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 12:23:14 AM
I got more supplies today.Walmart sells 7.625oz of emlers glue all for $2.48 each I got two more bottles. Went to a hardware store picked up a box of copper plated nails small size (weather strip nails)3/4x 17 1.5 oz for $1.89.Maybe 100 count?Enough to do copper oxide experiments with.Both red and black copper oxides.Then bought 20 feet of 18 gauge parallel speaker wire 50 volt max for $3.98.Appears to be copper and aluminium braided wire. Then my brother gave some scrap copper and steel wires to make thermocouples.I think too I figured out how to hook up my cells in the panels without using the heavy wires from radio shack.My vitamin C panel I sealed up two weeks ago with wax I tested the back 6 cells hooked up in series gave me today 6.2 volts and .00062 amps  3.8 milliwatts.
I was looking at white out today they had it for a dollar today at walmart .I did not buy it.But I think I figured out how to protect the magnesium strips anyway.Mix up a batch of elmers glue_all and morton salt sub coat the mag strips with it 24 hours before use.In my vineagar cells.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 12:31:42 AM
I also got some junk metal window screen,not conductive but I can burn that plastic coating off with a match or lighter.
I really liked finding the copper plated nails.They also had brass nail same size but I did not get them.No 12 copper wire or 14 steel wire was to be found there.So for now scrap it is!triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 12:37:58 AM
Good photo PC.I need to get some ice trays too.I learned somewhere a couple of days ago that meat is an electrolyte.I think they were talking about cooking?You stick two dissimilar metals into it and you get a voltage.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 01:14:57 AM
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:PaulL:Thermodynamics (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:PaulL:Thermodynamics)   some interesting facts about heat .triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 01:17:37 AM
It is a well-known fact all matter at room temperature radiates electromagnetic waves. At room temperature these waves are called T-rays and reside in the Far Infrared spectrum. "T" is short for THz. One THz is 1,000,000,000,000 oscillations per second. Consider one square foot of material that is a good absorber of T-rays such as water. This one square foot of water radiates about 450 watts of electromagnetic waves. The water does not need to be very thick. Five mills should be thick enough. One mill is 1/1000 of an inch.[/size]
So how do we collect these T-rays. One problem is that a good collector / absorber of T-rays is also a good radiator. Essentially, the collector would also be radiating about 450 watts per square foot. So the collector would be losing the same amount of energy that it collects. Therefore, the T-rays need to be focused into a smaller area. Once the T-rays are focused into a smaller area then the collector will become hotter. This means the collector is absorbing more T-rays than it's radiating. As the collector increases in temperature it will also begin to radiate more energy. Eventually an equilibrium is reached where the collector radiates the same amount of energy that it receives.[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 01:20:12 AM
So to get more power from our cells we make reflectors of heat to point in their direction.triffid.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 01:23:39 AM
 This one square foot of water radiates about 450 watts of electromagnetic waves. The water does not need to be very thick. Five mills should be thick enough. One mill is 1/1000 of an inch.think about this for a while.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 01:32:00 AM
THz radiation is very easy to focus. Materials such as Picarin are commonly used as THz lenses.[/size]
http://www.mtinstruments.com/thzlenses/index.htm (http://www.mtinstruments.com/thzlenses/index.htm)[/size]
THz radiation can also be reflected from materials such as metal.[/size]
So think we can use metal reflectors and point them at the earth since the earth itself generates a lot of heat.triffid[/size]

[/size]
And our cells are in the focusing area of the collectors.[/size]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 02:28:32 AM
http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm (http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm)  another simple and small joule thief.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 11, 2012, 04:37:02 AM
I got more supplies today.Walmart sells 7.625oz of emlers glue all for $2.48 each I got two more bottles. Went to a hardware store picked up a box of copper plated nails small size (weather strip nails)3/4x 17 1.5 oz for $1.89.Maybe 100 count?Enough to do copper oxide experiments with.Both red and black copper oxides.Then bought 20 feet of 18 gauge parallel speaker wire 50 volt max for $3.98.Appears to be copper and aluminium braided wire. Then my brother gave some scrap copper and steel wires to make thermocouples.I think too I figured out how to hook up my cells in the panels without using the heavy wires from radio shack.My vitamin C panel I sealed up two weeks ago with wax I tested the back 6 cells hooked up in series gave me today 6.2 volts and .00062 amps  3.8 milliwatts.
I was looking at white out today they had it for a dollar today at walmart .I did not buy it.But I think I figured out how to protect the magnesium strips anyway.Mix up a batch of elmers glue_all and morton salt sub coat the mag strips with it 24 hours before use.In my vineagar cells.triffid




Copper plated nails? I never thought they made that? what section of a hardware store would that be in, I've never seen them with the other nails in the nails section at Lowe's before. Thanks!
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 11, 2012, 04:38:36 AM
Here is something interesting to read. http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Final%20Secret%209%20Feb%201993/indexold.html (http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Final%20Secret%209%20Feb%201993/indexold.html)


It talks about Tom Bearden and how you use voltage only and no amps to get free energy. Don't destroy the dipole.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 11, 2012, 04:41:00 AM
Evening all!
Finally got my alum today and made two cells with it after crushing and mixing with equal parts epsom salt (and a measure of Durham's of course ;) ). The three cells I made earlier used aspirin and are still (surprisingly) soft. Anyways, I found that the cheap-o ice cube trays cut easily with a decent pair of scissors which makes it easy to cut the 'cells' away as needed. 28 plastic cell 'trays' for a dollar isn't too bad...

Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 11, 2012, 05:04:45 AM
Evening all!
Finally got my alum today and made two cells with it after crushing and mixing with equal parts epsom salt (and a measure of Durham's of course ;) ). The three cells I made earlier used aspirin and are still (surprisingly) soft. Anyways, I found that the cheap-o ice cube trays cut easily with a decent pair of scissors which makes it easy to cut the 'cells' away as needed. 28 plastic cell 'trays' for a dollar isn't too bad...

Happy experimenting,
PC




Speaking of ice. I use to put some of my cells in the freezer to see what would happen and how would they respond to the cold. You could give the freezer experiment a try? I even made cells that were ice cubes with salts and such in them, it was very interesting.  :)


Just watch out sometimes the cells will expand or pop.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 03:29:08 PM
'IB2,I got my small copper plated nails at a hardware place called" Hoods"located in house springs,mo.They are called specialty nails.Put out by the Hillman Group in Cinncinnati,Ohio 45231.Made in Taiwan.Lot#hpm04157. No phone number given.They were not with the other nails but in a location all to themselves.The bins of nails were in another location in the store.Hope this helps.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 11, 2012, 04:39:53 PM



Speaking of ice. I use to put some of my cells in the freezer to see what would happen and how would they respond to the cold. You could give the freezer experiment a try? I even made cells that were ice cubes with salts and such in them, it was very interesting.  :)


Just watch out sometimes the cells will expand or pop.

@IB: Yeah, I can give that a try easily enough. Some additives (sodium bicarbonate for one!) make cells puff up like muffins LOL!!
BTW, they sell solid copper tacks for nailing up the felt weatherproofing around doorjambs. Also, I think you can get solid copper nails; people drive them into tree stumps to prevent them from re-growing (Cu is poisonous to plants, something to consider...).

Happy experimenting,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 10:28:47 PM
Paul Lowrance said this in another post here at ou.com in another thread about the energy in room temp surroundings
Big J this is for you too.


So what's the potential of this technology.  By using micro technology it is possible to efficiently extract energy from thousands of thin plates. A plate that's 250 microns thick by 1 meter wide by 1 meter long would generate over 450 watts per side for a total of ~900 watts per sheet.  Stacking multiple plates to 1 meter high gives us 4000 sheets for a total of 3.6 Megawatts!  That's not bad for 1 cubic meter of space, but it's not realistic because we need to circulate air through each plate (which converts ambient temperature to electricity) to keep each plate near room temperature. Remember, if we are converting 900 watts of energy per plate into electricity then each plate will cool down. So we need to keep the plates near room temperature for maximum performance. Therefore, we should [color=rgb(0, 0, 255) !important]separate[/color] each plate by perhaps 250 microns, which gives us only 2000 plates per meter high for total of 1.8 megawatts. Even more realistic, given inefficiencies, we could expect as much as 1 megawatt per cubic meter.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 10:39:00 PM
more from paul:



Hi,

There are various methods that demonstrate this is already possible. Nature is the best example called the Dew Point effect. The clear night sky is 2.7 K, which is why horizontal surfaces cool down at night far faster than vertical surfaces. Also I wrote computer simulation software that showed me exactly how cones and parabolas would work. A lens will also work. If you focus T-rays coming from a square meter of surface onto 0.1 square meters then the 0.1 m^2 surface will become hot.

Although the simulation software is only in 2D space, it confirmed goofy experiment. I believe a 3D version would also confirm.

Presently I am working on technology that will allow T-rays to traverse through a special medium one direction, but reflect the other direction. This will allow up to 900 watts per m^2 of a very thin sheet.

Paul Lowrance


Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 11, 2012, 11:06:01 PM
Here is a circuit to convert thousands of volts once we have it into usable power. http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm)  triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 11, 2012, 11:32:36 PM



 I like how John finally went to an expert and found his answers. The problem being is that the experts don't explain the other processes going on there. They seem to forget the mass and surface area matter has. They fail to explain the complex flows of planes and surfaces provide. Some are like coaral and are very porous and some are very very smooth. All the while a strange event also plays out. INDUCTION. Resonance. and surface tensions... They don't include the realms they deem unfathomable. They only provide one side of the story.
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 12, 2012, 01:11:42 AM
I conducted some real experiments today.I got a brand new sponge,put it into a dish to hold it firm .poured water from the tap onto it to wet it down good and stucked electrodes into it and took volt readings.What I had done before that was to heat up two copperplated nails until they turned black with copper oxide.I stuck these into the sponge as well plus a steel safety pin.I also had one copper plated nail that was never heated.So three nails one mag strip and one steel safety pin stuck in a wet sponge.
voltages between the nails only ranged from ..011 volts to .050 volts.Put the magnesium in and it went to 1.18 volts and 1.22 volts using voltmeter probe for electrode and mag.So at this point I looked for some steel and found it in safety pins.
next:1.08 volts for mag and safety pin
         1.23 volts for black oxide nails and mag.
         


What I think this means is that I can get more voltage out of  black copper oxide electrodes than I can get out of copper electrodes alone
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 12, 2012, 01:16:55 AM



Yes black copper oxide is conductive!triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 12, 2012, 12:33:09 PM


 I like how John finally went to an expert and found his answers. The problem being is that the experts don't explain the other processes going on there. They seem to forget the mass and surface area matter has. They fail to explain the complex flows of planes and surfaces provide. Some are like coaral and are very porous and some are very very smooth. All the while a strange event also plays out. INDUCTION. Resonance. and surface tensions... They don't include the realms they deem unfathomable. They only provide one side of the story.




The expert told John to go here http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM130FieldLab/Lab8/Lab8.html


On that website it talks only about galvanic reactions, even a potato battery is mention. It seems the expert is trying to tell John that his cells are galvanic.


"
@ All,
Here is where the chemistry professor told me to go and look.
Lab 8: Single Replacement Reactions
John B"
In the web page it says that magnesium dissolves. "
When it does, the magnesium should dissolve and copper ions should become particles of copper metal."


One thing i saw was interesting was that the magnesium in water will produce bubbles.






[font='times new roman']
[/font]
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: jbignes5 on March 12, 2012, 02:35:48 PM
 I started looking back to what we can see at the smallest levels and I think this one is very interesting.


http://nanopatentsandinnovations.blogspot.com/2012/02/photonic-crystals-turing-heat-into.html (http://nanopatentsandinnovations.blogspot.com/2012/02/photonic-crystals-turing-heat-into.html)


 I think what they did was grow crystals from tungsten. They just masked the holes with a chemical which will repel the structure building solution. But this is done at very high temperatures. And special masking techniques have to be used. I highly doubt we normal guys could do this.


 My thought is that we are doing the same thing here but at a lower room temperature. The formation times get extended with a lowering of temperature but none the less should be similar. Our method utilizes the matters orientation and how it automatically builds to those complex interactions on the fly. crystals are strange. They are a growing product. They evolve and change based on discrete environments of available material and propagation of that material in the ever changing landscape.
 The strangest thing is we can use seeds to start the process and generate better bases to grow from. Specially grown crystals could be harvested to provide a better matrix to grow from and provide a stronger capability to push or transform pushes into usable energy. These matrixes could be in paste form till they are needed. Once installed into the unit the unit should be polarized then vibrated to allow the past matrix to align to the natural voltages of the plates of the device.
 Now from what I hear most toothpaste has ultrafine sand in it. This sand might be a key aspect to our paste. Quartz definitely should be tried with this. Salts would be self forming after a phase change from molten to crystalline form so salts should have no issue with alignment. But salts carry their own bag of tricks and I think we have figured out a few tricks of our own that helps the crystals go in the direction we chose without harming our electrodes. The only problem then is maintaining the current abilities of the cell. Weather that be sealed as much as possible or practicability remains to be seen. There are two splits now from this one idea. One utilizes water as the vehicle of energy. That gives some momentum having water tied to the charge being carried. The other utilized the structure itself to focus and impart a gain in potential between the two. You could think of it as a lens that is magnifying the intensity of that spot. Just as in nature you can harness the power of the sun likewise you can do the same to this energy via a suitable focal lens. You could think of it as the perfect heat engine. And some are photaic as well. And some are vibrational detectors too.... We have many aspects we can harness all at the same time.
 We have to stop looking at this from the traditinal accepted rule. The still teach electrostatics at the college level. We need to start understanding what electrostatics is really and the laws it follows.

 OMG we have had the answer to cancer since 2007. WTF. Because it is soo cheap they don't want us to fix us. Got to love greed...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH0BJKC_LLw
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 13, 2012, 12:12:54 AM

I'm trying to do some useful things with my crystal glue cells, here's a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2X4-5q77mM


Due to the high resistance of the crystal glue cells I can't do what everyone else can do with a just a few cells, I have to do things a little different but I am able to do things. I don't see having a high resistance in the crystal glue cells as a bad thing, just using voltage can be very beneficial to the life of a cell. This document gave me some hope for my cells http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/Final%20Secret%209%20Feb%201993/indexold.html


Some may find that charging capacitors or super capacitors to be very beneficial to their cells. If you charge capacitors and then run your load off the capacitors you can have all the amps you want since capacitors have a low internal resistance. I think we would fair better if we charge capacitors instead of hooking our load directly to the cell itself, once the capacitor is full you can remove the cell and give it some relaxation time to recover, but this is just my opinion.

Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 13, 2012, 12:44:16 AM
@ IB: So what is the best way to hook the cells up to a capacitor? Cells in series with the LED on the + side of the cap? Parallel cells with the - side to the cap? Parallel seems to keep pace with the cells hooked up to the cap so... I guess I need to look this stuff up huh?  :o

Happy experimenting folks,
PC
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 13, 2012, 12:52:29 AM
@Phi


What i'm going to try to do is hook 5 cells in series and 5 in parallel for a total of 25 in a group. 5 cells times 1.3 volts about 6 volts which is ok by me. The more cells you have in parallel the quicker the capacitor will charge.


The cells are hooked up in parallel with a capacitor. The LED is run off the capacitor. The LED runs the capacitor empty and the remove the LED and the crystal cell charges the capacitor.  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 13, 2012, 01:11:42 AM
After I logged off yesterday I added two more electrodes to the wet sponge to test .Pencil lead and another copper plated nail(i had forgotten to use a control).Copper plated nail to copper plated nail gave me a voltage  of .005.So to correct my range for the nails(.011-.005=.006 volts and then .050-.005=.045volts).Now I still see a higher voltage when I use black copper oxide nail instead of a copper plated nail.I repeatedly got 1.34 volts from the pencil lead and the magnesium strip using just tap water.Then I got a crazy idea.I wanted to see if I could get any voltage at all from dry epsom salts straight from the box with no glue,no salt sub,no water.So I filled an empty medicine bottle with dry epsom salts ,stuck a pencil lead and a magnesium strip without touching in the bottle.I got a max of .004 volts from the dry epsom salts.Already the pencil lead and magnesium strip had decided for itself what direction of pos and neg it was going to take.Something had happened at the boundaries of the electrodes to determine the direction of voltages.With no water ,no other things except dry from the box epsom salts and the two electrodes I chose to stick in the bottle.So the crystals are giving off tiny voltages all the time.When you add water and morton salt sub and the electrodes the cell organizes itself (as it dries out) into a crystal matrix that produces electricity from the vacuum.
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 13, 2012, 01:47:33 AM
Now that I know dry epson salts gives off tiny voltages I wonder what else is possible?triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 13, 2012, 01:51:47 AM
After I logged off yesterday I added two more electrodes to the wet sponge to test .Pencil lead and another copper plated nail(i had forgotten to use a control).Copper plated nail to copper plated nail gave me a voltage  of .005.So to correct my range for the nails(.011-.005=.006 volts and then .050-.005=.045volts).Now I still see a higher voltage when I use black copper oxide nail instead of a copper plated nail.I repeatedly got 1.34 volts from the pencil lead and the magnesium strip using just tap water.Then I got a crazy idea.I wanted to see if I could get any voltage at all from dry epsom salts straight from the box with no glue,no salt sub,no water.So I filled an empty medicine bottle with dry epsom salts ,stuck a pencil lead and a magnesium strip without touching in the bottle.I got a max of .004 volts from the dry epsom salts.Already the pencil lead and magnesium strip had decided for itself what direction of pos and neg it was going to take.Something had happened at the boundaries of the electrodes to determine the direction of voltages.With no water ,no other things except dry from the box epsom salts and the two electrodes I chose to stick in the bottle.So the crystals are giving off tiny voltages all the time.When you add water and morton salt sub and the electrodes the cell organizes itself (as it dries out) into a crystal matrix that produces electricity from the vacuum.
triffid




Glad you did this experiment. Many people say the reason why my crystal glue cell works is due to the Epsom salt, but like you said sticking your electrodes in a cup full of Epsom salt only gives you 4mV. So Epsom salt by itself is not the reason why the cells work. Now try to make these cells....



1)Only glue with copper and magnesium electrodes


2)also make a glue and Epsom salt only cells with copper and magnesium electrodes.


What you will notice about these two cells is that over time they will loose voltage and the one with Epsom salt and glue only will get to 0 volts within a month. The reason why its important to make these two cells is to show other people that its not that Epsom salt and the glue contains water, because over time they will die out. Now when you make a crystal glue cell (glue-salt substitute-Epsom salt cell) than the voltage will never go dead thus proving that no water is at play.


I'm so glad you did this too Triffid, I get so many people telling me the reason why my cells work is due to trapped water but if they would make the two cells that I've mention above they will learn that just because the glue and Epsom salt contain water does not prove that my cells use water. The water has nothing to do with why my cells work, something else is at play and it could be the vacuum energy. Thank you Triffid for doing the simple test!  :)
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 13, 2012, 01:56:00 AM
Ib2,you talk about the high resistance of your cells but I dont see an average  of 1.33 volts per cell as bad.You are still putting your cells on paper it seems.Maybe something is coming in from the paper to cause high resistance?I was never any good at stirring these cells so I never got beyond that.I wonder what other dry crystals out there gives off tiny voltages like epsom salts?triffid




does dry sand give off tiny voltages?
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: ibpointless2 on March 13, 2012, 02:11:36 AM
Ib2,you talk about the high resistance of your cells but I dont see an average  of 1.33 volts per cell as bad.You are still putting your cells on paper it seems.Maybe something is coming in from the paper to cause high resistance?I was never any good at stirring these cells so I never got beyond that.I wonder what other dry crystals out there gives off tiny voltages like epsom salts?triffid




does dry sand give off tiny voltages?


Hi triffid


high resistance only affects amps,  voltage is only slightly affected.


I'm glad you brought up the paper issue. Many people think i get my power from the water in the paper or the paper absorbing water, this is not true. The picture below is of one of my older crystal glue cells. I made this cell before i had Magnesium electrodes so it has copper and aluminum electrodes so getting a half a volt was normal. This cell is almost a year old now and it was built on top of a Gatorade bottle cap. The cap is melted and the cell is a little burnt due to me putting it in the oven so that's why it looks a little messed up, but the key point is that its alive and working even though its on plastic and was cooked. The paper is not bringing water in, in-fact its doing the opposite. As the glue dries the paper wicks away the water from the cell and allows it to dry faster. So the paper is not the reason why i get voltage and to prove this you can take two electrodes to dry paper and see that you get almost nothing in voltage.


If you wan't completely dry salt crystal cells,  i've made what I call the pressure cell and the stove top cells. Here is more info on them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWATxAJooE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EWATxAJooE)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozyjpZw07bA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozyjpZw07bA)



Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 13, 2012, 02:17:11 AM
You are welcome IB2,I had a burst of inspiration I guess. I may know now how to build a dry electrostatic battery from the dry epsom salts.
I have been looking for 1000 volt battery designs and found none with crystals.I found three designs without crystals.But now I feel that I can blend the two and use my circuit I posted here.I got shocked thru my brother on saturday because he likes to play with static electricity.He wears cotton coveralls,sits on a chair covered with synthetic fabric(nylon I think).When he stands up.Thats friction he carries a charge with him and shocked me thru a sparkplug a couple of times.!Quite a jolt it was too.I think I can create a capacitor from  (200 feet of insulated wire)wire to put inside a gallon jar filled with epsom salts.Hopefully the wire capacitor will charge up discharging thru the sparkplug going thru the rest of the circuit to an earth ground.So the epsom salts is generating tiny voltages,thru induction the capacitor charges up and discharges thru the sparkplug...you get the idea.With what paul lowrence was saying about plates Maybe dry epsom salts is the way to go?


Just an idea here but this week Im busy with surgery to remove a catarat.I have to get ready to have an operation on thursday
triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 13, 2012, 02:27:21 AM
I like the fact you are still getting .6 volts from that year old glue cell. My 30 count panel was a total mess.Using a paper egg carton that may have had sodium hydroxide in it.I did not toss it out because I hope to study it later.See if heat can bring it back?It blew me away to realize that somehow the electrodes had figured out how the electricity was going to flow when they were stuck in the dry epsom salts.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: triffid on March 13, 2012, 02:32:39 AM
4mv was all I ever got from the electrodes and they were in there overnight.triffid
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 13, 2012, 04:45:25 AM
Made quite a few cells over the weekend. The ice cube trays actually produced a couple 'cube' cells! ;) I may try to find some mini ice cube trays, the full size ones use a bit more in materials than I want to use per cell (until I find a really good mix anyways). I will take another pic of some of the new cells in a day or two (or four or a week...).
Will be working with alum and Durham's for a while. Alum seems to puff up a bit so maybe aspirin will help with that... Not much of what I did this weekend was 'done' today. The 'cubes' are giving me over 1.25v when I hook them up in series easily. That particular mix set in minutes and I was able to remove the two 'cubes' from the tray (after only an hour!) to help them dry...
I just looked at the two salt sub bottle cells (that don't have any salt sub in them ironically) and the two 'cubes' I have in series (4 cells total) and they are at 2.15v. I will leave the VOM on and check them in the morning... No cells tonight, maybe tomorrow, I'm beat...

Happy experimenting,
PC

EDIT: The next morning; Looks like the voltage fell to 1.93v so I lost a bit over 2/10ths of a volt overnight. I will unhook them and let them rest for an hour (since I was messing with them before I hooked them up last night so they started a bit low ;) ).  I might get to make some cells today if I have time...
Title: Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
Post by: PhiChaser on March 13, 2012, 02:54:2