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Author Topic: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells  (Read 762695 times)

jbignes5

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #570 on: February 23, 2012, 04:59:47 AM »
I also just wated to point out that this is a reference for paramagnatism of oxygen:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcGEev8qulA&feature=related

PhiChaser

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #571 on: February 23, 2012, 06:35:20 AM »
@ jbignes5:
I think you are exactly right about oxygen being the killer, not water. Aluminum doesn't 'rust' until you start adding acids.
A list we need to start compiling IMO:
Epsom salt has 7H2O - (MgSO4·7H2O) = SEVEN!
Alum has 12H2O - AB(SO4)2·12H2O = TWELVE!! ((potassium aluminum sulfate))
These are are exactly the kinds of crystalline water we are looking for to use in our electrolytes. Cheap too!!
My methodology would be to solulize, mix with a 'helpful' base that gets really hard, then take the 'extra' water out somehow and keep the crystalline structure (the 'base' would help the crystalline structure to stay 'aligned'). :)
Starch seems to push water out... What exactly is starch?
My brother suggested having the anode/cathode close enough that you would/could grow the crystal directly 'on' the electrodes thereby letting the crystal 'decide' what shape it wanted to be... I think IB did a couple of those, or something similar? Form factors would be interesting. (Heh heh!) More cells maybe this weekend. Gotta get some alum still...

Cheers!
PC

ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #572 on: February 23, 2012, 01:28:28 PM »
  Well... don't feel alone.
   I also got my ass in the fire, just mentioning someones name.  I have never talk down about anyone.  But, I guess we are the guys they must be talking about, the ones that don't know anything about anything. Right?
                                   


I'm sure we're the guys, and it sucks. I remember you saying oxygen might be the reason for the corrosion, but their exist two types of corrosion, one with oxygen and one without. Steel can corrode when exposed to oxygen but it can also corrode in concrete where there is no oxygen. Steel turns red when rusting in oxygen but turns green when no oxygen is around.  I don't know why he says we don't know nothing, I do the corrosion testing and so do others. I also don't see why he keeps telling use we need to use 100% magnesium, the reason why the  magnesium is alloyed is to make it less corrosive. Magnesium with zinc in it is less corrosive than pure Magnesium due to zinc being higher up on the galvanic charts so its less reactive.


 Keep up the good Work NickZ!

ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #573 on: February 23, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »
Wow,
Bedini wants to have 200 US$ for his crystall battery kit ?

What do you get for this ?
Just the magnesium block and the copper plate and the electrolyte ?
or are they selling also the Joule Thief circuit and LED with it ?

Too bad to hear, that you got booted there from EForum.

Well then stay here ! ;)

I will soon join in again in the battery research.

Will be testing the AZ31X magnesium alloy rods soon.
I still need to find a method to coat them with a good oxide layer...
Maybe the Pyrite coating with Waterglas that Plengo is using will help ?

The Zamax alloy , which is an alloy of Zinc Aluminium and magnesium and copper .
The name zamak is an acronym of the German names for the metals of which the alloys are composed: Zink (zinc), Aluminium, Magnesium and Kupfer (copper).

See:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zamak/112613222086205

It is the same as Durafix, ( alloy rods for repairing aluminium cases via soldering)
It is very nice, cause you can make and coat it with  a very hard black layer via electrolysis.

If you use this alloy in an electrolysis bath and use small percentage vinegar as the electrolyte
and put the Zamak ( Durafix rod) as the Plus pole, (When I remember correctly the polarity)
you get the black coating pretty fast on this rod, which is very hard and prtoects the rod from
fast decomposing.

Then use these rods as one electrode in your crystal battery.
The other electrode can be graphite or lampblack with a pencil lead.
You can add also snad or zeolite and use water or water with K2CO3 as the electrolyite.

I have not yet tested Epsom salt ( in Germany it is called: Bittersalz. you can get it here cheaply
in every Pharmacy fand 100 Gramms costs just only 1.50 Euroi)
and Alum yet, but I have recently bought these salts and
will soon begin to experiment again with this...

Btw, magnesium can be easily got by using using metallic pencil sharpeners
cause these are made from magnesium metall.

I hope this helps-

Search here for the aqua cells from Walt Hoffmann. He was the one who started
all this research with the Durafix rods. There are old threads here in the forum from
a few years ago...

Regards, Stefan.


Yes he's charging $200 US dollars for a cell that gives no more power than a AA battery but needs constant water to keep it going. [size=78%]http://www.teslachargers.com/crystalwaterbattery.html[/size]


I don't know how i feel about iron pyrite yet. When exposed to water and oxygen it makes sulphuric acid.


I'm very interested in using other metals. I think we should try other metals out  (safe metals) and see how they react. I also wonder about using aluminum in its powder form, I know metals in their powder form can be a problem but it makes me wonder. Maybe break down aluminum into its powder form and then suspend it in glue to make it a solid powder form? Or we could find something that coats the metal?


@all
The reason why Bedini says his cells consume water is that on one electrode oxygen is made but on the other hydrogen is made. All batteries do this. The battery is making electricity so thus that electricity is going to do some electrolysis too. The electrolysis is so small though and most of the water gets evaporated, only about 2% of the water is consumed due to electrolysis and the rest is evaporated. Lead acid batteries do this all the time and that's why they need water added to them after a long period of use.


I often thought we should re-visit the concrete cells. Concrete is a porous solid that doesn't have oxygen trapped inside of it. The electrodes in concrete are trapped inside of the concrete so its much harder for them to break-apart and decompose as easy. Just add water to the concrete when you need to use it, it will absorb it and the concrete will lower its resistance. The only thing that will show corrosion in a concrete cell will be the electrodes where its coming of out of the concrete. The top of the concrete with the electrodes sticking out can have paint or liquid plastic or even wax placed on top of them to keep the electrodes from corroding. Put a hole in the bottom of the concrete cup so that it can absorb water, it take in water by use of the capillary action which is water's crystal forum growing. This is just an idea.


What also might be a good thing to use is just plain old ore's. Ore's have been exposed to the elements so they're protected.

ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #574 on: February 23, 2012, 02:11:33 PM »
@ jbignes5:
I think you are exactly right about oxygen being the killer, not water. Aluminum doesn't 'rust' until you start adding acids.
A list we need to start compiling IMO:
Epsom salt has 7H2O - (MgSO4·7H2O) = SEVEN!
Alum has 12H2O - AB(SO4)2·12H2O = TWELVE!! ((potassium aluminum sulfate))
These are are exactly the kinds of crystalline water we are looking for to use in our electrolytes. Cheap too!!
My methodology would be to solulize, mix with a 'helpful' base that gets really hard, then take the 'extra' water out somehow and keep the crystalline structure (the 'base' would help the crystalline structure to stay 'aligned'). :)
Starch seems to push water out... What exactly is starch?
My brother suggested having the anode/cathode close enough that you would/could grow the crystal directly 'on' the electrodes thereby letting the crystal 'decide' what shape it wanted to be... I think IB did a couple of those, or something similar? Form factors would be interesting. (Heh heh!) More cells maybe this weekend. Gotta get some alum still...

Cheers!
PC


Here's a video you might be talking about [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVqCVP1HR0g[/size]




ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #575 on: February 23, 2012, 02:18:37 PM »
I also just wated to point out that this is a reference for paramagnatism of oxygen:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcGEev8qulA&feature=related


Great video!


oxygen is attracted to magnets.


Water is attracted to electricity. [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWQ-r1LYXY[/size]


Water is repelled by magnets. [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyqOTJOJSoU[/size]


I ran some experiment a month ago where i was testing to see if a magnetic field would help keep the anode from corroding. The anode was magnetic so I stuck a magnet to it in hopes that a magnetic field would push away the oxygen. I had a control cell with the same setup but lacking a magnet. The final result was that both still corroded but the one with the magnet corroded less.

NickZ

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #576 on: February 23, 2012, 03:43:29 PM »
  @Ib2, and all:
   The problem also with the other forum is that some of this research is being done with a commercial gain in mind, at least ultimately. So, if what you are doing is not adding to their particular interests, you get discarded like an old shoe.  At first my carbon cells were dismissed, as not being of interest to the dry cell project based on salts ( called crystals cells), along with my cement cells, which I still use daily, over a year later.  And now as carbon is on top of the list, things are starting to change.
 I see that the carbon is fine, and will last a long time, and does not contaminate, as I had thought in my cells, but what happens is, it just drys out. You wet it and like in Plengo's cell, thay just come back to life.  But corrosion is still a big big factor in open salt cells, and always will be, even with the semiconductor protective layer. This still needs to be looked into. The only thing that will resist salts and acids is carbon.
   The Cement Cells when properly made gave 60 to 70 mAs, each cell.  That is more than all my dry carbon cells output altogether.  There are several tricks to how to make them so they will last and keep producing. Most people that have made just one or two of them will not know about it.  I worked on them for several months. Their higher impedance factor is due to the wetness content of the cement electrolyte. Which does hold some moisture sealed inside, similar to how salts hold their water. As this water drys out, the cells output will also drop.  This is true with ALMOST all cells.  But, I still feel that there is a way to use water, without actually using it up, similar to how the dry glue cells works, and the metals stay clean and shinny, while still putting out some juice. In fact obtaining most any voltage needed, but with no current. But, the question remains, do we absolutely have to have current?  Maybe not.  Time will tell with that aspect also.

     

jbignes5

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #577 on: February 23, 2012, 04:30:00 PM »
 Ok. So now you are seeing water is the vehicle we need here. But we need not bulk water but crystalline water. Bulk water is bulk because of saturation of oxygen in it not because it is water. think about the process of crystal building and you will see that oxygen has little to do with the process and for the most part oxygen gets pushed out of the crystal. This changes the water into crystalline water because there is little room for oxygen. It seems to be crystallized but it is only very organized. I can't stress that enough.


 Nothing in our environment has no oxygen and nothing in our world is perfectly sealed from oxygen but there are ways to remove the oxygen from the device after it is done being formed (crystallized).


 Electrolysis happens if you try to buffer the voltage (in series). Think of the regular batteries we use. In series they add their voltage together. So we have 1.5+1.5+1.5+1.5 each one of these cells see's 4.5 volts more then it holds from each end. That is the reason for electrolysis in these batteries. You could think of the batteries as pressure pumps. each capable of pushing 1.5 times it's own weight. Putting them together changes the acceleration of the energy raising it's voltage potential and not changing it's charge ability. This process I believe in our batteries will kill them in no time. Like you said it will have electrolysis the water will break down into hydrogen and oxygen and do two things. The oxygen attacks the electrodes and the hydrogen floats away.


 There will have to be certain steps to build these simple cells.


 1. The metals must be treated to protect against oxygen.
 2. The cells must be sealed to prevent leakage of the crystalline water if the cell goes into electrolysis mode or the byproducts of electrolysis.
 3. The plates should be encompassing, meaning it surrounds the center electrode, much like a Leyden jar (joe cells shown the same potential).
 4. After the cell is made and before it is sealed, mineral oil should be fed to the cell to seal it further. <-this I have not checked on yet. This mineral oil should be doped with a conducting additive to allow an electrolyte type conduction. <-haven't been tested yet, might not work.
 


 Since water is weakly repelling a magnetic field and oxygen attracts the magnetic field, I would think this helps set up channels for the energy to flow in a cell like this. Water has a bismuth like effect. It reflects the magnetic field (via induction, my best guess).


 Another thing is lead acid batteries don't only have acid in them. They have water as well. I think this water is used as a static generator as it hits the positive plates of the battery. The water is pushed into the plate and that causes a rubbing of the water over the crystalline structure of the lead. This imparts a voltage to the plate and it's current ability is merely how well it can maintain the voltage from the rubbing of the water over the plates. The electrolyte is merely the activator to allow conduction of voltage through the battery. When the battery gets a charge it then goes through an electrolysis phase. This is a destructive phase for the battery because it depletes it's water in that process, hence the reason for replacing the water with distilled water<-Quasi crystalline water. There is not much oxygen in distilled water.




 So water has been the key all along. We mistook what water is really. It is why life needs water. It is a vehicle for oxygen which can be very energetic. It is also why water is sooooo plentiful around very big energetic channels. Think of the biggest water deposit ever and you have to start looking at quasars. Water is merely the vehicle. When the energy gets stripped off of waters oxygen it tends to condense into huge clouds. These clouds are even in outer space. [size=78%]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/quasar-largest-water-reservoir-_n_908487.html[/size]


 To understand all of this we must understand what water is and how we can use it for unlimited energy. It is highly recyclable vehicle for oxygen and I suppose it is here because we have a very energetic center to our world, much like a quasar. Even the sun outputs water every second of every day. If we think about space as being a fluidic medium then we can understand how this process works. Planets are merely the collections of matter in a fluidic medium. That matter is bound to a certain potential when measured from space to earth. Space has very little charge to it because it is at it's lowest charge level. and charges like to bunch up. If we understand that energy likes to form networks we finally start to get a picture of these flows of charges. Highly organized and all connected in a dynamic network. The sun is merely a leaky conduit of this network and so are the planets that surround that sun. I suspect we are living through induced energy from this leak. The leak is only small and affords connection to the leak by presenting a potential for matter to cling to. This leak is only the catalyst for the inductive connection, it is not true conduction. I assume when conduction happens you get a supernova. Remember water is is repelled by magnetic fields and the sun has a huge magnetic event happening. It is the same as the quasar but on a much larger scale. So water as the vehicle ferries charges through the network and when it looses it's charge gets repelled away from the sun or quasar. This water I suspect is a result of the energy being sucked out of whatever waters base is. When that happens it turns to the water we know. In it's natural form it is only a vehicle with little interaction with matter, in fact we can not see it because it's density is so very extreme. It weakly repels even it's own kind and that is what gives water it's surface qualities. Water is a network when it is pure, like crystalline water. As soon as you add impurities it changes the network of the water and you get bulk water. Semi organized.


 I know this has turned into a diatribe but I thought it was important to give you more information to see this clearly.
 


 

ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #578 on: February 23, 2012, 04:38:38 PM »
Here is a video of my crystal cell that does not need water added to it to keep it alive. Its been running for over 2 months now without a drop of water added to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_islZjfjwk


Its been sealed up twice with electrical tape to protect it from the outside air. It just sits in a corner powering a LCD clock. The key to this cell is allowing the separator  to dry before putting the magnesium on.


The copper tube is wrapped in notebook paper. I put water on the notebook paper and then i rub Epsom salt and salt substitute into the paper. When the paper is wet it is transparent but when the water is gone its white again. I allow it to dry for about two days and then i wrap the magnesium around the dry paper and put electrical tape on it to apply pressure and to protect the cell. 


What I like about this cell is that it doesn't need water constantly added to it to keep it going.

jbignes5

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #579 on: February 23, 2012, 05:11:58 PM »
Nick I built you carbon battery and it did eat itself up. White puffs are all around the outside of the can and I bet it has eaten a good portion of the aluminum.


 On another note the aluminum that I treated with borax beforew putting it in a glass jar and the aluminum looks perfectly fine. It was my first attempt at the crystal cell and it is the only one that has not eaten itself up to date. I added zero water to the mix which was alum and epsom salts with a little salt substitute.


 The thing is it was very very wet for a long time and it was my best cell to date at 1.2 volts. I used graphite pencil leads that were very thick. I think they were 5mm across. When I dissected the cell the crystal formations almost connected. I think I took it apart to early and after 2-3 months it had not formed fully. But the grahite was destroyed by the salts. So maybe carbon would be better. The design was a glass jar with a helical wound aluminum wire around the inside of the jar. The electrode was graphite and I already went over the mix. Not one drop of water was added to the mix yet it was very wet. the crystals that formed were shaped like the epsoms salt and were very clear.

b_rads

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What is a depolorizer?
« Reply #580 on: February 23, 2012, 05:13:03 PM »
A while back the group at EF started talking about using depolorizers to increase current in their crystal cells.  This video shows some ongoing experiments of mine to help me understand this.  Hope you enjoy watching.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzarGi9orY0
 
Brad   :)

ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #581 on: February 23, 2012, 05:17:17 PM »
@jbignes5


so what you're trying to say is to make water have less oxygen? Also put a protective layer on the electrodes too? sounds like a good step in the right direction.




You also mention something about using oil in water? I've made a cell before where water sat at the bottom and oil sat on top of water. The oil was used to keep the water from evaporating, but the crazy part was that the water still evaporated at a very slow rate. Don't know how water can evaporate through oil but it did, but it took a really long time to do so. I think the oil was olive oil.

ibpointless2

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Re: What is a depolorizer?
« Reply #582 on: February 23, 2012, 05:24:47 PM »
A while back the group at EF started talking about using depolorizers to increase current in their crystal cells.  This video shows some ongoing experiments of mine to help me understand this.  Hope you enjoy watching.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzarGi9orY0
 
Brad   :)


Really nice work, Glad to see the bio-plastic cells still going. I need to try to make a bio-plastic cell.

jbignes5

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #583 on: February 23, 2012, 05:26:55 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpcJGn4vGM&feature=related


lasersaber has done it already and should be comming out with a good how to to make the cell. He is of the same position that just the differential between the two metals is enough to the battery. Copper foil and magnesium in oil! the perfect capacitor and cell because of the metals we use. Once you get a flow of potential then the current will follow. Stabilizing the flow of potential is the problem here. But that is also a differ3ent approach as well. No water and no oxygen at all... Not even electrolysis can happen.... Hmmmm...


 Do you remember about electrolytic caps recharging? Well now we know what was going on. The same metals were used in an electrolytic cap and that could be the reason they were so small of a recharge. Plus oil drastically increases the short tolerances of the cell per Tesla.

 On the questions about water you want to get the water to have what it needs to hold the crystals together anything else will be squeezed out of the crystal by the crystal building process. Crystalline water has the bare essentials of oxygen. If you watch the video again about the water you showed you will see how this works. The boundry between oxidized water and non oxidized water is very clear. That is how the crystals grow and build. That layer where the crystalline water stops and the bulk water is should tell you all about the crystals abilities to build. Bulk water has impurities like the stuff the crystals matter is made out of. As soon as it settles and bonds the next layer of crystalline water forms and yet another layer is made. This happens all the time. Watch the video again...

 So if you want the water to have very little oxygen then how do you go about it? Well why not use crystals that have the crystalline water in it already. Apply heat and let it reset and walla!

 Also one way to perfectly seal something is to use heat to expand the oxygen and water in the device then cover it and allow it to cool. Very little oxygen or bulk water will be left and you will have a vacuum seal to boot. If it gets compromised then the seal would have been broken and no vacuum is left. This will let you know if the device has been unsealed.

 I'm watching laser sabers video's to see if he completes the oil cells. That should be awesome. He is one bright individual like many here....

b_rads

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Re: What is a depolorizer?
« Reply #584 on: February 23, 2012, 06:23:29 PM »

Really nice work, Glad to see the bio-plastic cells still going. I need to try to make a bio-plastic cell.

Ib:
I have not explained to anyone yet why I am looking at different materials to build a solid electrolyte, so it is now time to lay out what I am trying to achieve.
 
Last year in an exchanging PM's with "MIKROVOLT" I promised that I would not post any results of my experiments on his thread and I intend to keep that promise to him.  I hope you guys do not mind my posting this information here.
 
Last summer I stumbled onto something that I thought was pretty cool.  When trying to replicate a different type battery, I found out that I could consume the electrolyte without harming the metal electrodes.  Think galvanizing, Zinc has a lower Electronegitivity than the metals it is trying to protect.  It is called a sacrificial coating.  I have found that potassium and calcium has a lower electronegitivity than magnesium.  Mixing either of those two materials with plain white glue and placed between the copper and magnesium causes the glue mix to be consumed.  The glue mix acts as a sacrificial coating to the Mg.  The problem is replacing the mix after it has been consumed since it was glued to the metals and the resistance is pretty high in the cell.  If the boiplastic works, replacing the electrolyte should be very simple.  Working on the resistance is another thing.
 
Thanks to this group for letting me get this on record.
 
Brad