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Author Topic: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells  (Read 549766 times)

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #105 on: November 20, 2011, 05:10:13 AM »
The big blue cell that I've painted with blue spray paint with 3 heavy coats of paint had me worried. I had a bad rain storm come through and the voltage went up and I feared the worse. I was worried that the cell was getting water from the air and this would be bad because this would make it galvanic. I've put it to the side for a couple days because I fear the cell was nothing now but I finally broke down and performed a simple test. I took a spray bottle and I spray the cell with water. To my surprise the cell voltage started going down the more i sprayed it with water but did stop at a certain point. I can't believe this, this has me more confused then when I started. If the cell went up in voltage than it would be galvanic, if the cell stayed the same than it would not be galvanic, but since it went down I don't know what to call it? Anti-galvanic maybe? This makes me upset because I'm more confused then when I started this whole test. So it wasn't the moisture in the air that caused the cell to increase it voltage when the bad rain/thunderstorm came through. So this just leaves barometric pressure and I have some ideas on how to test that.

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #105 on: November 20, 2011, 05:10:13 AM »

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #106 on: November 20, 2011, 04:16:54 PM »
The big blue cell that I've painted with blue spray paint with 3 heavy coats of paint had me worried. I had a bad rain storm come through and the voltage went up and I feared the worse. I was worried that the cell was getting water from the air and this would be bad because this would make it galvanic. I've put it to the side for a couple days because I fear the cell was nothing now but I finally broke down and performed a simple test. I took a spray bottle and I spray the cell with water. To my surprise the cell voltage started going down the more i sprayed it with water but did stop at a certain point. I can't believe this, this has me more confused then when I started. If the cell went up in voltage than it would be galvanic, if the cell stayed the same than it would not be galvanic, but since it went down I don't know what to call it? Anti-galvanic maybe? This makes me upset because I'm more confused then when I started this whole test. So it wasn't the moisture in the air that caused the cell to increase it voltage when the bad rain/thunderstorm came through. So this just leaves barometric pressure and I have some ideas on how to test that.


 Great Test IB... What you have there is the ability of the water to polarize to the units voltage potential and shield it from part of the fields these "batteries" utilize. Nothing confusing there IB. Just got to understand the abilities of water I guess.
 Try looking up static rules when used with metals and you will see what the water is doing. Think of it like this one side or surface of the metal can be charged, the other side pulls the charge from it making it depleted or negative. Both potentials are equal but out of balance. Water reacts to static charges so it must be Conductive to it somewhat.


 The voltage increase can from the environment being so highly charged. The environment changes in potential and so does your battery potentials accordingly.

 I guess it is time for me to make an exciter field generator and do my own experiments on exposing these "batteries" to high potential fields. My take on this is that they are focusing channels for potentials based on the environmental potentials. If we can expose these devices to high potential fields we might be able to figure out the gain they provide...

Offline nightlife

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #107 on: November 20, 2011, 11:05:11 PM »

 I guess it is time for me to make an exciter field generator and do my own experiments on exposing these "batteries" to high potential fields. My take on this is that they are focusing channels for potentials based on the environmental potentials. If we can expose these devices to high potential fields we might be able to figure out the gain they provide...

 I personally want to test them in low energy invironment potentials. I was thinking Nevada or Arizona at night miles away from any sort of man made energy field.
 

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #107 on: November 20, 2011, 11:05:11 PM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #108 on: November 21, 2011, 12:39:50 AM »

I think I may have stumbled across on how to make a crystal cell that uses the same metals. I'm getting a constant 400mV coming from using Aluminum wire for both electrodes. There is no magic involved in the process to dope the aluminum wire but it is on the dangerous side.


To dope the aluminum wire i took a cup of water and added Epsom salt and salt substitute to it and stuck my aluminum wire in the mix. I applied 12 volts for a couple of seconds and this created one wire that was dull and the other was extra shinny. This is not a new idea as most lead-acid batteries use this idea but what is interesting was that I could no matter how hard i try could get it to charge over 500mV. Maybe if i changed the size of the plates i could get higher voltages. After doping the metals I placed them in the glue mix and i'm allowing it to dry. Care must be taken when doping the aluminum wire as the salt substitute contains chloride and this could create chlorine gas when current is passed through the water.


It is very interesting that I can get a voltage from using the same metals in a cell.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2011, 03:54:35 AM »
   It seams like some guys have been able to electrolyze the aluminum in the salt solution, to leave an oxide layer which is the semiconductor? on the aluminum.   I think that might also work even when using regular table salt, which I do have.  Afterwards the test would be that the treated aluminum will not conduct electricity, and so that protects the metal from further oxidation.  The copper you heat red hot even on the kitchen stove, several times, and dip into water and all the black just comes right of in a second. I haven't got the borax, but I see that the copper turns the reddish shade, and not the black.  I'm ready to try it with a 3 inch long copper tube that I've already heat treated and prepared, as well as the aluminum wire, with the table salt electrolysis treatment. To see if there is any difference in my case, compared to my first hot dog cell, that has no semiconductor treatment.
 
   B_rads:  What the latest on those nice looking mg/copper semiconductor cells?

 

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2011, 03:54:35 AM »
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Offline jbignes5

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #110 on: November 21, 2011, 04:17:44 AM »
 No it wont conduct regular electricity but it is a very good inductive radiator then. The crystals that form in the cell is the focus and the target is the center electrode that recieves the increased potential from the focusing. This is how I am seeing this operate. Water can be used in a cyclic way to recharge the battery but it has to be designed in that one component of water is the transporter. Since oxygen is a good ionizer I am thinking this is the culprit for the recycling methods that Bedini is trying to use. It's a good way to use a set amount of water in the battery as long as it can heal from damage.

Offline b_rads

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #111 on: November 21, 2011, 09:48:58 PM »
NickZ:
To be perfectly honest, I have not verified any performance increase by using the semi-conductor process on these cells.  Whether they will last longer than the untreated metals is yet to be seen.  The cells I made (stove top and glue) encased in liquid plastic are all still working, albeit at very low output levels.  Personally, I believe there is still a portion of the output being generated by galvanic action, but time will tell.  My water batteries that have been running for 14 months now show very little consumption of the zinc and if not for the inside steel rusting, it would be difficult to assess any corrosion.  For builders to say that after a few days or weeks that they see no corrosion might be more hope than reality.  Not trying to sound negative here, only attempting to keep my expectations low.  To match circuits with low output and long lasting cells have great value in my opinion.
I have a new variation of Ib’s cell that is showing some promise.  Remember Lidmotor’s cell using the water absorbing polymer gels.  Look at this stuff.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=Water+Absorbing+Polymer+Crystals+Gel+Soil+Moist
This is potassium based and I used a heated mix of Epsom Salt and Calcium Carbonate to saturate the crystals.  While this is galvanic, I am happy with the output as it will light LED’s and will have to see how long it runs.
Keep up the good work.  I keep my fingers crossed that something very positive will result in all the different methods being tried.   :)
Brad S

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #111 on: November 21, 2011, 09:48:58 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #112 on: November 21, 2011, 11:39:07 PM »
   B_rads:
   Thanks Brad, just wanted to know if you were having any luck lately... I love the way your cells are lighting up that area of your house, all nice and neat...
   Semiconductor, or no semiconductor, that is my question...  So, before I go and buy a bunch of chemicals, salt, and dopings, etz, just want to make sure that it works, and is worth the effort.
 Maybe Jim at EF might be having some luck, with his cells.
  I do feel that the big Mg/ copper cells like John lathed out are the way to go, but it's the mix that worries me a bit.  I want to steer away from water and salt, if possible. If you fill the Mg cups with Carbon, they would not need the semiconductor, as there is no water, air, or anything else. Which carbon to use is the question I still am working on. Look what just a thin pencil lead can output, almost 3 volts,  are first.  So, mass is not all, geometry must play a role, and resistance of the electrolytes, ion concentration and flow.
   I tried the electrolysis on the aluminum wire to see if I can get to to become a semiconductor, by using salt water solution, (table salt), but afterwards it still conducts electricity, which after the treatment it should not do.
   The copper is easy to treat with heat but the aluminum, is more involved, as it needs the chemicals and salts that I can't get.  I'm still not conviced as to the process, yet.
                                                                                                     NZ


Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #113 on: November 21, 2011, 11:42:08 PM »
B_rads,


What is the voltage and amp readings on the stove top cell and glue cell that are in liquid plastic?


Thanks.

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #113 on: November 21, 2011, 11:42:08 PM »
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Offline b_rads

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #114 on: November 21, 2011, 11:55:54 PM »
B_rads,


What is the voltage and amp readings on the stove top cell and glue cell that are in liquid plastic?


Thanks.
Ib:
I will check again this evening, but the cells, both glue and crystal hold right at 1.25V and 1-2 ma.  Since I am circuit poor and have too many cells, most of them sit shorted out.  When driving a circuit, if I load to heavy, a days rest will bring them right back.  One stove top cell has been under load for over 2 months and just will not die.  These are all copper and magnesium.  Encasing has made a big difference in my cells.  The cells that have not been encased do not hold up nearly as well.
Brad S

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #115 on: November 22, 2011, 12:23:23 AM »
B_rad,


these are great results!  :)


Glad to see that the self charging happens for you too. I remember you showed us how you encase the cells, I think it was a video? Do you still have that link to that video?


Also what part of the world are you at? I get around 1.3 to 1.4 volts where i am at with my encased cells and was wonder if location affected the voltage.


As soon as i get all my supplies i will be making bigger cells that will be encased and join together to charge a super capacitor and that super cap will power thing from LED's to cell phones, etc. The United states postal service has really slowed down my progress, I'm still waiting for my package to arrive that I ordered  almost a month ago.

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #115 on: November 22, 2011, 12:23:23 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #116 on: November 22, 2011, 01:02:03 AM »
Hi All,
in 2005 when Walter Hofmann experimented with his saltwater AG cells,
see:
http://www.overunity.com/78/some-new-photos-of-walt/15/

that consisted out of first Durafix- Zamak alloy 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAMAK
a Zinc copper Aluminium alloy

and graphite and saltwater.

he did send me a few samples and I also worked with this.

We found out, that using electrolysing a Zamak alloy rod, it got a very
hard black colored oxid layer.
Then putting this Zamak rod into a graphite cylindrical rod where a hole
was drilled into it and was filled with table-salt-water and graphite powder,
gave quite nice long lasting cells, that put out around 0.7 to 1.2 Volts,
depending on the used graphite and salt.
The interesting part was, that these cells converted the Zamak rod only very slowly
into some kind of transparent crystal, probably some kind of zincchlorid or something
like this like you can see on this old page:
http://www.overunity.com/78/some-new-photos-of-walt/15/

So the conditioning of the Zamak alloy rod with a black oxid layer
really helped to protect the alloy rod for some longer time,
but as this was still a wet galvanic cell, the alloy rod was still
converted to this kind of transparent crystal structure probably of
a zinc-alu-chlorid or something simular.

But it latest very long and had an shortcircuit output of
around 1 to 2 mA also after a few weeks, so 3 or 4 cells in series
were still able to put out some light on a white LED.

So what I wanted to say about it, that oxidizing the electrodes
makes sense and encasts them in a hard layer sometimes
as in the Zamak case.

It would be interesting to see, how much current such a
Zamak alloy cell would deliver with the heated dry electrolytes
with the Epsom salt and Borax, Alum etc.. what IBPointless2 and John Bedini has been using
to make their cells...
So maybe you can try Zamak alloy and oxidize it in an electrolizer bath.
You can get it easily by buying Durafix rods which can be used to
solder and repair aluminium metal cases..
like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALUMINUM-REPAIRS-DURAFIX-ALUMALOY-your-choice-1-4-about-10-rods-GREAT-/280764502450

To get the black layer you can just put them in saltwater or better tapwater with vinegar and attach the positive pole
on them and the negative pole to a stainless-steel rod or graphite rod and let it run for a few
moments, so the oxid will build on these Durafix rods.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #117 on: November 22, 2011, 01:12:03 AM »
 I already posted my results from my cells powering a shake up light led head from the flashlight. I does this very well. Most of my cells will run on it to make full brightness but it does work with and without the super cap on the led head.  The super cap has 5.5v marked on it and looks like a two button cell. I have ran the led head for hours and hours (16 at most) and after a slight recharge(rest time) it runs the same way just about every time.


 But most of the cells I made were incorrectly made. With only a graphite lead and aluminum foil tray. They had eaten themselves up basically but the aluminum trays were not treated before making the cells. I think if I had treated the foil trays they would have held up. The galvanic response was pretty bad. So I am left with my best cell (Glass, very wet) with no signs of galvanic anywhere in the unit that I can tell. Ant the sodium carbonate cell.. The latter being 1.25 volts and holding in standing condition. When used the voltage drops pretty bad to about .7 or .8 volts but seems to hold up there.


 My trials with treating the aluminum works with anything you can think of. I think it is how the oxide forms that is of interest and it seems to form a diode like crystalline structure, which should increase your power issue. Well I will know more after my experiments continue. I'm thinking the oxide layer must become a dopant in the carbon to increase crystalline growth of the oxide layer... You could always put an air hole and squeeze the whole mess very tightly with a cleverly designed endcap and let it dry by heating the unit up. Crystal growth should create more pressure and compress the center electrode as well. The endcap is the hardest problem but with clever design we could make a bolt on compression type endcap. When I get a chance I'll draw it up. Holidays are big around my parts. Family everywhere lol...

Offline b_rads

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #118 on: November 22, 2011, 04:34:32 PM »
B_rad,


these are great results!  :)


Glad to see that the self charging happens for you too. I remember you showed us how you encase the cells, I think it was a video? Do you still have that link to that video?


Also what part of the world are you at? I get around 1.3 to 1.4 volts where i am at with my encased cells and was wonder if location affected the voltage.


As soon as i get all my supplies i will be making bigger cells that will be encased and join together to charge a super capacitor and that super cap will power thing from LED's to cell phones, etc. The United states postal service has really slowed down my progress, I'm still waiting for my package to arrive that I ordered  almost a month ago.
Here is the link for the instructions I did for encasing the glue cells.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEJOe-rkpi8
 
The thing that is interesting about this method is that if you have not allowed the cells to dry and cast too early, you will have bubbles form in the plastic and this is from gassing, a clear indication that galvanic action is still in play.  When dry, you do not see the bubbles from gassing.
 
For the “stove top” cell, I got some of those glass holders for the tea candles.  Heat the mix with electrodes in place in the area designated for the candle.  If the temperature is too high, you can break the glass, so be cautious if you attempt this.  When cool, mix the liquid plastic and pour over the top to seal.
 
Another observation which may not be relevant, is when adding the catalyst to the resin, the mix will become very warm.  Do not know if this helps, hurts, or is not a factor.
 
Ib: I am in the South East U.S. in Alabama.  Elevation is approximately 700’ above sea level, in a valley between two mountains.
 
I understand about the USPS.  I had to start keeping notes as I would get things in the mail and had forgotten why they were ordered.  When you get an idea, you want to start it right away and waiting for materials can certainly try a person’s patience.
 
Brad S

Offline NickZ

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #119 on: November 22, 2011, 05:12:37 PM »
  I don't know if anyone has had any luck charging capacitors from these cells, but yesterday I placed a big cap onto my cement cell bank and later tested it with my AV plug, the led lit super bright but only for a second or two.
  Anyway, if anyone knows what is the best electrolytic cap (not the boast caps or super caps), to use in conjunction with these or any cells, please let us know. Hopefully some that has been tried and shown to work, for more than a little while.
 I find that AA batteries will also get charged this way, but only to the same low mA levels as the cells output, so that does not help much.  I do think that placing either caps or batteries in line can help, at least in theory.
   
   Harti:  thanks for the info, maybe one of the guys that have the Epsom, substitute  salt, and other things for the mix will want to try your suggestion.  I'm trying to stay away from the salts, and water, if possible, as I can get a few mA, and over one volt with my dry aluminum/carbon-quartz cells, that don't need any water, or salt, doping, semiconductor, etz...
  I do hope that we can produce a higher output using the semiconductor idea, but I still have my doubts, as it's possible that it will only work at higher levels if they are being watered regularly.  Time will tell...

 

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