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Author Topic: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells  (Read 676507 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #420 on: February 09, 2012, 11:58:09 PM »
  PhiChaser:
  Copper and carbon together will not make a good cell.  Carbon and aluminum, or copper and aluminum will work.  Although magnesium works better than aluminum, if you can find it.  The two different metals or carbon can not touch each other, or they will short out the cell,  and need to have an electrolyte separator. This can just be a wet paper towel, or the salts combo that Ib2 has mentioned.
  The exception to the above is carbon or charcoal, (aquarium activated carbon), as it can be used without an additional electrolyte between the aluminum metal and the carbon. 
  I don't know about carbon tubes, or their use in making these cells, but it may be worth a try.

Offline PhiChaser

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #421 on: February 10, 2012, 01:01:51 AM »
  PhiChaser:
  Copper and carbon together will not make a good cell.  Carbon and aluminum, or copper and aluminum will work.  Although magnesium works better than aluminum, if you can find it.  The two different metals or carbon can not touch each other, or they will short out the cell,  and need to have an electrolyte separator. This can just be a wet paper towel, or the salts combo that Ib2 has mentioned.
  The exception to the above is carbon or charcoal, (aquarium activated carbon), as it can be used without an additional electrolyte between the aluminum metal and the carbon. 
  I don't know about carbon tubes, or their use in making these cells, but it may be worth a try.
I KNOW that Nick! Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly: I already HAVE carbon TUBES which work just fine for electrodes (instead of copper) I can insert the copper wire INTO the carbon tubes for connecting the carbon to other things via the copper (since everything is made to connect to copper, see?)... The copper doesn't touch the electrolyte, just the carbon. I'm wondering whether the Cu will react in some way to the carbon (or vice versa).
Carbon and Aluminum are what I'm using for electrodes. I know Al and Cu try to oxidise when you touch them directly.
I guess my question still remains: Will copper wire corrode in a carbon tube? I'm guessing not much? Seems like a no brainer for getting from carbon to copper electrically without getting your copper oxidized by the electrolyte.
Whatcha think fellas?!?
Larger carbon tubes with aluminum 'cores' might work just as well as aluminum tubes with carbon 'cores', maybe better? Not gonna spend the money on that kind of stuff until I do a lot more testing... Salt sub and a dash of H2O (from several days ago) is still sitting at around 0.9v and discharges a LOT slower than the epsom salt H2O mixture (which starts at a bit over 0.6v and drops fast!).
Might go get a small container of wood putty and see if a wood putty battery will work... Still need to get some alum... Ah well, one thing at a time.
Happy experimenting!!
PC

Offline NickZ

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #422 on: February 10, 2012, 03:03:46 AM »
  I think that there will be oxydation between the carbon and the copper wire, if that is your question. At least I have seen it on my dry carbon cells, where the copper wire connects to the carbon, the copper gets oxydized and will need to be cleaned off to work properly. One of the reasons that my dry carbon cells lose power after a while. But, once that copper oxide layer is cleaned off the copper, cells works fine again.  So, maybe keep the copper connection out of the cell to avoid that corrosion.

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #423 on: February 10, 2012, 03:25:46 AM »
Phi,


The carbon will not corrode when touching copper. Both are not very reactive but the copper might turn green which is not harmful but if the copper turns black than that can lead to bad things. Carbon won't corroding easily in room temperature, you need high heat. I think Gold will corrode faster than carbon would.


Carbon would be a great electrode to use.






@all


Something to keep in mind. In physics nothing can never be created or destroyed, so when your metal is corroding its not being destroyed. Its in fact being converted to something else. Usually Hydrogen is given off and the electrode becomes its oxide of itself, magnesium becomes magnesium oxide. This is something to keep in mind.

Offline PhiChaser

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #424 on: February 10, 2012, 06:07:27 AM »
Phi,


The carbon will not corrode when touching copper. Both are not very reactive but the copper might turn green which is not harmful but if the copper turns black than that can lead to bad things. Carbon won't corroding easily in room temperature, you need high heat. I think Gold will corrode faster than carbon would.


Carbon would be a great electrode to use.






@all


Something to keep in mind. In physics nothing can never be created or destroyed, so when your metal is corroding its not being destroyed. Its in fact being converted to something else. Usually Hydrogen is given off and the electrode becomes its oxide of itself, magnesium becomes magnesium oxide. This is something to keep in mind.

Was thinking that pultruded (I think is the term) carbon tubing (or rods) wouldn't corrode too badly in whatever electrolyte they are sitting in. If the copper doesn't react to direct contact with those then that is a good thing.
I got some Elmer's wood putty tonight and made three 'batteries' in plastic bottle lids; Electolyte was just the wood putty on my 'baseline' test... It measured a bit higher than just water so these things will be giving more useful measurements in a week (I hope!)... 1/4 teaspoon of salt sub measured 0.8v and the third had a bit more and hit about 0.75v so really, inconclusive at this point. I tested 0.8v+ from the moist putty right out of the container and using aluminum and carbon as my 'leads' but dropped to 0.5v pretty quickly. Will find out in a few days what the 'dry' cells are putting out... ;)
PC
EDIT: Uploaded a pic of my three wood putty batteries. ;)

Offline triffid

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #425 on: February 10, 2012, 06:50:38 AM »
Just reporting some results.At about 36 hours the morton salt/salt cell sub has dropped to less than 1/10 volt.With pressure it will pop back up to .25 volts.The cell with boric acid is holding at .47 volts.The aspirin cell is holding at .57 volts(recall that its max was .60 volts).Using a pair of pliers I crushed the 325 mg (one whole tablet) into the cell without mixing.Its generic aspirin.$1.00 per bottle of 175 tablets.Maybe from family dollar?My led is still burning but very dimly.I know aspirin has a lot of fillers in it.I need to test the aspirin more.Make more cells with it.triffid

Offline triffid

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #426 on: February 10, 2012, 07:06:52 AM »
Has anyone tried dripping wax on these cells?To keep water from them?I know they have been encased in plastic(too much money for me right now).I have seen many candles at garage sales.triffid

Offline triffid

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #427 on: February 10, 2012, 07:24:33 AM »
This man taught me to use whatever is at hand.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Carver  There is a story I read about him years ago.That he had been hired to teach chemistry at a black school.There was no equipment and no money for it.So he took the whole class to the dump to pick up bottles and jars.Brought them back to the school to be cleaned up and cut up into useable laboratory equipment.He said to make do with what you have.triffid

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #428 on: February 10, 2012, 11:53:10 AM »
Has anyone tried dripping wax on these cells?To keep water from them?I know they have been encased in plastic(too much money for me right now).I have seen many candles at garage sales.triffid


Yes I've seen people use Wax to cover their cells, it works great. Marcus Reid does this with his cells.

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #429 on: February 10, 2012, 11:57:44 AM »
Phi,


I never had much luck with Elmer's wood glue/putty. I've found it best to sue Elmer's Glue-all. Just using Salt sub by itself won't have the cell lasting long, in about a week it will drop off in voltage as the cell dries out. I also like to use folded up paper to place my cells on, not only is it cheap but it helps to wick away the water so the cell dries faster. Your on the right track, next you should try to make a glue cell with only Epsom salt in it. After that make a cell with Elmer's glue all, salt sub, and Epsom salt.

Offline PhiChaser

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #430 on: February 10, 2012, 03:01:56 PM »
I was thinking about wax the other day too...
I know parrafin is used to full up empty spaces around electronic components sometimes.
IB, thanks for the tip about using the paper towel to wick away the extra water.
Triffid has me thinking that reuse/recycle might be the way to go on these 'bottle cap batteries'...

Will try to visit the dollar store for containers sometime this weekend...
Epsom salt will be next, then mixtures, then tests and more experiments, and making a mess of course! ;)
Cheers!
PC

Offline triffid

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #431 on: February 10, 2012, 09:33:10 PM »
At this time the table salt/morton salt sub has pretty much died.I can squeeze it to get 2 or 3/1000ths of a volt.The aspirin cell is holding up at .56 volts down from .6 volts at about 44 hours ago when it was new.I found some junk wire and connected up ten cells from my first panel only to get about .14 volts.A dismal failure to say the least.My cells from the second and the third are doing better but not as well as I had wanted them to.The LED is no longer burning on the second panel but I left it connected in case it comes back on.Our weather is changing so I wanted to see if it comes back on.


I can at least connect my cells in series.Using 6 inch lengths of thin wire from a burned cord from a lamp or something.I wrapped it around the wire and strips of metal and use a piece of black electrical tape to seal it.


triffid

Offline triffid

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #432 on: February 10, 2012, 09:39:46 PM »
Things I can do?I guess I could make another tin can lid/mg cell and put aspirin in it.These cells I do not mix but layer.I guess I would put the aspirin on top of the epsom salts?I will stay away from egg carton cardboard for now.I do have a plastic egg carton I can make more cells in.Those cells I can try mixing?triffid

Offline b_rads

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You guys have been busy.
« Reply #433 on: February 10, 2012, 11:12:01 PM »
Have not checked in for a couple of days and find 2 full pages of posts.  Glad to see the attempt to use recycled materials in your cells.  I can go to the dollar store and purchase 8 AA heavy duty batteries for a dollar.  The use of expensive high quality materials does not really get it for me.  Look around at demolition and remodeling sites for conduit.  This stuff is coated in zinc and that has always produced better than aluminum for me.  The conduit holds up much better than galvanized bolts, nails, washers, etc, for some reason.  I have three water, conduit, copper, cells that have kept a red LED going for over 15 months now.
About recharging batteries:  ni-mh have a horrible efficiency rating, only about 66%.  This is a loss right off the bat.  Ib has explored the use of Caps and I think he is on the right track there.  Do not discount that you can use these cells to recharge each other with the right switching technique.
Keep it simple.  When the materials and reciepe's get too costly and difficult to replicate, nobody wins.
Brad S

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells
« Reply #434 on: February 11, 2012, 01:44:14 AM »
Hi triffid,


What kind of aspirin do you use?