Hydrogen energy > Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation

Cheap and Efficient hydrogen oxygen separation HHO cell design

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hartiberlin:
Hi,
I think we need a cheap and easy to build  efficient hydrogen oxygen separator HHO cell.

We definitely need a good design for an efficient HHO cell
where you can get hydrogen and oxygen separately ....!

One possibility would be to install in special membranes in a Drycell as intermediate plates,
which allows the
Ions to pass through, but not gases and thus separating  the hydrogen gas
from the Oxygen gas.

For this one would then have two different outputs.

One could mount such a top housing case with perhaps a
3D  printer, where it intrudes the stainless steel plates and the separation membranes.
Then you could remove the gases above and by appropriate drainage channels
which lead to the outside.

Or you do it differently:

E.g. could be stainless steel screws as electrodes with an
Plastic hose wrapped around them, where for about 0.5 mm space between
the ss-screw and the plastic hose is made.

The plastic tube should have
microscopic holes , so that ions can pass through,
but no gas.

The stainless steel screws can then  be 30 cm or more long
and be inside the electrolyte in water and wrapped around  is the plastic tubing
where in the 0.5 mm space between the plastic tubing and stainless steel screw and
Electrolyte is located.

The stainless steel screws need to be there only for the hydrogen electrodes,
as the oxygen electrode can be made as a stainless steel wool wrapped around the plastic tube.
Shown here in red color in the drawing below.

The principle is then that hydrogen is generated on the stainless steel screws
and this is directly rising upward through in the tubes  and thus comes out of the cell via these plastic hoses ( tubes).

One could then for example place 8 or more stainless steel screws within plastic tubing and electrolyte wrapped around them
adjacent building, they switch to the positive pole of a hydrogen electrode
and finally  stainless steel wool will be wrapped around the plastic tubes as the
negative oxygen electrode wire.

The goal must be to generate at the stainless steel screws hydrogen,
which will rise inside the tubes  and then can be removed easily,
without oxygen coming in through the tubes.

The hoses must be  open bottom to allow new electrolyteto flow in.



With this method, you should really be able to build an efficient H2 and O2 separator cell
and also pretty cheaply and as long stainless steel screws are standard products, they should be easy to obtain.

Plastic tubing is also cheap and as the stainless steel screws can pass through a plastic housing
below in the bottom of the Electrolizer they can  be screwed and fixed there so that the negative pole
of the power supply can be easily fed there at the bottom
to the screw rods..

The only question is only how to get best microscopic small
holes in the tubing ??
Maybe with high-voltage breakdown bomarbing of the plastic hoses
via High Voltage equipment and sending electron hoöes thjrough the hoses ?

Or is there any cheaply available  diaphragm tubes to pass through the ion, but no hydrogen gas?

Then you could take something like this ...

Efficiency depends only on  the distance of the stainless steel screws up to the steel wool
that means if the distance is not more than 1 to 3 mm, then the efficiency will be high.

So maybe you can take straws and fix them to the plastic tubes and
which are then inserted over the stainless steel screws, so that the hydrogen gas in the straws
can climb.

As far as my brainstorm for a hydrogen - oxygen HHO cell separator.

See the attached picture please.

Regards, Stefan.

evolvingape:
Nice idea Harty :)

Mind if I join the party ? Here is my design for the PRotoMax System Polarised Centrifugal Diffraction Multiple Stage HHO Rotary Conical Splitter. Phew... what a mouthful!

Powered by direct drive from the PRotoMax output shaft the Splitter revolves at thousands of RPM. The cone system is perforated with micron holes of variable diameter, decreasing in size as the cone stack ascends. The smallest holes being located in the final stage.

Oxygen is heavier than Hydrogen and will be flung via centrifugal force to the outside of the device, the Hydrogen will concentrate in the centre bore tube. Water vapor or steam will be on the 10 – 50 micron scale and so will be heaviest particles present.

The system will be balanced so that PRotoMax exhaust pressure head will terminate vertically at the final stage splitter. The heavier liquid phase water will be tapped off lower down and returned to system reservoir.

The polarisation of the central tubing being Positive will attract and concentrate the Negatively polarised Hydrogen in the centre micro bore tube and can be tapped off for use in PRotoMax Plasma Repulsor Valve Processes. The Negative outer cone will attract the Positively polarised Oxygen.

My favourite bit is the final stage splitter (not shown) that works on the principle of a spinning tube of gas fluid with an event horizon vacuum differentiator. This is achieved via twin exhausts located at the centre axis and the outer casing. Centrifugal and Centripetal forces will both be in effect simultaneously in a rapidly spinning tubular gas phase environment, ensuring final separation of the Hydrogen / Oxygen mix via the Differentiator Horizon.

Take that principle described above and modify it as necessary to unlock the puzzle of the Centrifugal / Centripetal Fluid Engine I hinted at recently ;)

RM :)

evolvingape:
Hi,

Hopefully this picture should make it clearer for you.

A splitter mounted above the rotor will be providing drive via the output shaft. With centripetal axial porting and polarisation the Hydrogen should flow axially. With centrifugal radial porting and polarisation the Oxygen should flow radially.

Angular deflection through 90 degrees is the principle at work here. Note that it can be further broken down into two 45 degree deflections. If the deflections are the same way then they sum to equal a 90 degree deflection, if they are opposing they cancel to equal net deflection of zero.

Should you wish you can add a Tesla turbine stack around the splitter assembly which is a series of hollow shafts. The radial porting will feed into the disk stack and impart rotational energy. The primary purpose of this is to reduce back pressure on the splitter's radial exhaust allowing a vacuum to form along the differentiator horizon.

When I originally designed this engine years ago I was planning to detonate a plasma within the vacuum pockets, but that get's quite complicated and I abandoned it in favor of RotoMax, but now it has become a potentially viable option for separation of HHO.

Should be fun to explore anyway and it does not get simpler than 3 tubes with some drill holes :)

RM :)

ResinRat2:
I was thinking that maybe we are looking at this gas separation in a too complicated way. Hydrogen is naturally 16 times less dense at STP than oxygen since one mole of each gas takes up the same 22.4 liters of space. The two gases mixed together will naturally separate into two layers upon standing.

The attached drawing gives a simple proposition for an apparatus that can operate at ambient and low pressures to separate the two gases. By the end of the last tank the hydrogen should be the only gas left to exit the top of the tank. If not, then maybe a few more tanks would do.

This is just a rough drawing and idea for a cheap, easy, uncomplicated way to separate the two gases. It needs to be developed, but the idea is there.

Mark69:
why not just use this membrane that the member www.hydrogenpower.be has discovered?  Very cheap and no extra tanks needed.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11403.0

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