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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: Justsomeguy on September 09, 2011, 07:49:20 AM
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Say that you have discovered a previously unknown property of a substance that allows you to prove overunity beyond any doubt. Repeatable and reproducible by anyone. You have used different materials, meters, gauges, and even multiple locations to rule out outside influences (I used to be a metrologist, I ran a materials testing lab, And process engineering for a major corp. trust me). Also assume that with such a breakthrough that you would like to become disgustingly wealthy. You are familiar with the laws of thermodynamics, but you also can see it with you own eyes and hold it in your hands. No input required. It just works. Linear or rotational and output is measured with "work"- force over distance.
Now you start researching patents and find out that you can't protect it. How do you make Billions from it? JREF has a million dollar prize. There are some X prizes and some oil guy. But how do you make real money with it?
I would really like some ideas.
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I suggest to get to the river first before speculating on how to cross it.
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I really would appreciate any suggestions.
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My plan would be to produce as much electrical power from it as possible and sell this energy. The Problem I see with this you have to cover up your Device, perhaps with also using some Solar Panels or other conventional power producing technologies... ;)
But like many others I also think you should share the building plans with others, so all people in the world, who want to, can use it. :)
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It's a good question, one I have spent some time thinking about. Royalties and patents are very 20th century concepts as the music and film industry is trying to rail against. In the open source community ppl make money from providing services or products that work on a platform. A holy Grail free energy device is only the first step. You must dareisay value add to that with real products and services. No one is paying royalties or licensing for an electric motor or the Internet I stand to be corrected here. The fortunes come from utilizing the the tech. If you have something, think beyond royalties or patents.
Where is the niche that you can provide a real difference using the tech. I would go there first before a patent and then open source.
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If your asking a question like this then it suggests you have a device that is overunity. Such a device would allow energy to be provided to grow food, desalinate the ocean to provide drinking water and land irrigation, and generally remove "cost of energy" from the equation and provide a workable solution.
Here is just one estimate on the number of children dying every single day around the world:
http://www.globalissues.org/article/715/today-over-22000-children-died-around-the-world
A free energy device such as you describe would solve this problem and within a short time save millions of lives. Every second such technology is withheld by the inventor more children die.
You have stated a desire to become "disgustingly wealthy" from such a device. The only justification in my mind for a human being with a soul to place personal wealth over saving a single child's life is ignorance of the suffering.
Now you are not ignorant of the facts.
Can you look yourself in the mirror and honestly declare that you are happy for millions of children to die this year so long as you get a huge amount of $... ?
Hope you sleep well tonight...
RM :)
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A good place to start would be the self charging electric bike . This could be available and affordable to all . This is better than cheap electric cars which would add to congestion . Second would be cheap home power and heating .
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Plan on forming a company that hires the best engineers and best
business people to build profitable products based on it and take
advantage of the idea.
Forget about protecting the fundamental idea.
You only need to protect it if you think you can't build such a company
and want to create a chain of protection so that companies that are
already successful can shelve the process until they are ready to use it
at their option.
If you want change, you will need to "compete" that change into place.
:S:MarkSCoffman
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I was thinking of the JREF challenge, then simply auction the technology. It could not be supressed if everyone knows it exists and has been confirmed by JREF.
Does anyone know of another group/person as widely known or accepted as an authority?
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It's a tough question and one I've thought about a fair amount because I know if I ever got to the point of having a good OU device I knew it would be a lot tougher to answer that question after I got it than before I got it. I think history has shown that few inventors have gotten rich and the ones with really valuable inventions usually get bilked out of their potential wealth by very savvy business sharks that steal it away. So unless you have a lot of wealth or can get a very string free loan to start your own manufacturing there are not a lot of good options. True wealth on the other hand is thought to not be in dollars and cents. But you may not see that yet. Look at the stories of many of the Mega Lottery winners. Not a fun picture in many cases. However I don't expect that will change your mind. So I would consider an 'underground' Multi-Level marketing/building system as one possibility where everyone is tied to a contract with you and you teach people how to build and every unit built and sold you still get a percent on it. All is spread by word of mouth. If you really have something of value that can power a home or cars or even an appliance than word of mouth should work very well as who wouldn't want free energy? Make sure everyone is very clear to only talk to people who they know well so it doesn't get stopped by various PTB, big energy, big oil, or nat. security. Take it slow and careful and you could be very wealthy at some point in the future. Of course I would really prefer you open sourced it and the very fame you would get could make you wealth in itself. But that would also open you up to being stopped by all the entities who in the past have been able to stop all efforts at getting free energy into the publics hands.
I'm sure there may be other plans that might work also. But if you look at all the failures (listed somewhere around here) you'll see pages and pages of inventions that I'm sure many were working but never saw the light of day because of how they tried to get wealthy and get them out into the public.
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Say that you have discovered a previously unknown property of a substance that allows you to prove overunity beyond any doubt. Repeatable and reproducible by anyone. You have used different materials, meters, gauges, and even multiple locations to rule out outside influences (I used to be a metrologist, I ran a materials testing lab, And process engineering for a major corp. trust me). Also assume that with such a breakthrough that you would like to become disgustingly wealthy. You are familiar with the laws of thermodynamics, but you also can see it with you own eyes and hold it in your hands. No input required. It just works. Linear or rotational and output is measured with "work"- force over distance.
Now you start researching patents and find out that you can't protect it. How do you make Billions from it? JREF has a million dollar prize. There are some X prizes and some oil guy. But how do you make real money with it?
I would really like some ideas.
You can keep it for you self and make billions, and the world will continue getting worse and worse until we all die - or somone make it available for everyone and get rid of the need to have money, money is depended on lack, free energy take away all lack. Then we can all consentrate on having fun in this universe :)
I mean come on wake up, look around, here is a whole reality around us, for us to discover!
We cant apply 20 sentry solutions in this times. Were we go now there is no room for lack.
Its time to co create.
Tommy
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The multi-level idea is good, but it wouldn't work. The whole weakest link thing. I'm sure that all the "give it away" and save "the children" people are too busy shipping food to comment more. I'm also sure they all work for free and are self sustaining to the point of not needing money anymore.( I am involved with Peacework Medical. check out their site.)
However, I still wish to be paid for my work. I also want to continue my work in other areas. So I am still asking for suggestions. Thank you for all the replies so far.
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If you want to make money you need to sell something.
Depending on the power levels you can either make and sell:
- a cell phone recharger
- a flashlight without batteries.
I don't think selling the electricity will do you any good as the only people who will buy it are utilities. You are better of keeping to the consumer market. If you can scale it up you could start to sell systems to power or heat/cool homes.
That is where I would try to take it.
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Someguy
Someguy's like money..................,someguy's come to places like an Open Source forum to "Help" change this world.
Do you go to Church and ask the Pastor how to Phornicate and not get caught??
The "catch" is "You can't get there from Here"!!
Chet
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Valid point chet.
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The multi-level idea is good, but it wouldn't work. The whole weakest link thing. I'm sure that all the "give it away" and save "the children" people are too busy shipping food to comment more. I'm also sure they all work for free and are self sustaining to the point of not needing money anymore.( I am involved with Peacework Medical. check out their site.)
However, I still wish to be paid for my work. I also want to continue my work in other areas. So I am still asking for suggestions. Thank you for all the replies so far.
All that time thinking about how to get out of a morality issue and you came up with that ? ???
Your right the “multi-level whole weakest link†thing would not work, just a single person breaking the accord would mean you lose control, and you cannot have that now can you...
Contrary to your beliefs I am not too busy “shipping food to save the children†to comment further, which will probably upset you.
Shipping food to deprived regions to sustain life only sustains suffering, keeps them alive a little longer to suffer more... it does not solve the root cause of the problem, only creates a dependency that deprives the suffering communities of standing on their own two feet and providing for themselves.
“Give a man a fish he eats for a day... Teach a man to fish he eats forever...â€
Also contrary to your beliefs I do work for free, in fact I would be willing to wager that I work far harder to make the world a better place “for the children†than you do. I am also not self sustaining from a monetary perspective, in fact I am relatively poor in the country where I live. I work a day job to survive, and I work in my own time for a better future for the world's children not just my own.
Do not attempt to side step your initial comments...
You stated your desire is to become disgustingly wealthy, and not that you simply wish to earn a decent living from your work. I would not personally object to you earning a living off your invention if you also used it to open source the technology and make the field cooperative, creating the potential for real change.
If your going to have another pop at me... I advise you to do your research in advance next time to avoid looking silly... and also to not defend an indefensible position...
On a parting note what is your hourly rate ?
22,000 children / day
24 hours in a day
22,000 / 24 = 916 children / hour
Whatever your hourly rate is, that is the $ value you place on 916 children's LIVES
This of course assumes that you work 24 hours a day... if you take time out then the ratio will change... unfavourably for you...
RM :)
P.S... Some say that eyes are the windows into the Soul... how is that mirror gazing going ?
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RM
Some folks just can't see it,they really don't "get it".
They can't see past their own nose to even see the guy in the mirror?
I agree with you 100% to have a tech like this and put a price on it,adds up to Genocide in my Book!
Not good ...............
Chet
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Say that you have discovered a previously unknown property of a substance that allows you to prove overunity beyond any doubt. Repeatable and reproducible by anyone. You have used different materials, meters, gauges, and even multiple locations to rule out outside influences (I used to be a metrologist, I ran a materials testing lab, And process engineering for a major corp. trust me). Also assume that with such a breakthrough that you would like to become disgustingly wealthy. You are familiar with the laws of thermodynamics, but you also can see it with you own eyes and hold it in your hands. No input required. It just works. Linear or rotational and output is measured with "work"- force over distance.
Now you start researching patents and find out that you can't protect it. How do you make Billions from it? JREF has a million dollar prize. There are some X prizes and some oil guy. But how do you make real money with it?
I would really like some ideas.
1. I do think you would get into trouble.
2. I also think you will not be rich.
3. Not only you, but all your friends, family/relatives who knows who you are, will also be a threat to the big companies.
Advice: Go open source. You will not be rich, but your wallet doesn't have to worry about power bills anymore.
Btw. Good point RM!
Vidar
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Say that you have discovered a previously unknown property of a substance that allows you to prove overunity beyond any doubt. Repeatable and reproducible by anyone. You have used different materials, meters, gauges, and even multiple locations to rule out outside influences (I used to be a metrologist, I ran a materials testing lab, And process engineering for a major corp. trust me). Also assume that with such a breakthrough that you would like to become disgustingly wealthy. You are familiar with the laws of thermodynamics, but you also can see it with you own eyes and hold it in your hands. No input required. It just works. Linear or rotational and output is measured with "work"- force over distance.
Now you start researching patents and find out that you can't protect it. How do you make Billions from it? JREF has a million dollar prize. There are some X prizes and some oil guy. But how do you make real money with it?
I would really like some ideas.
i have some great ideas! but they cost a lot of money (millions - had you come here with something to open-source the ideas would've been free) as i would like to become disgustingly wealthy. ;) other than that, my only idea for you would be to hire a brilliant marketing agent. i hear steve jobs isn't so busy anymore...
never mind the 'save the children' noise. that's all it is... noise. someone else trying to make you responsible for a problem that is not yours. 22,000 kids died... and how is that your responsibility? were they your kids? ::)
the ape should evolve and do something to make the parents of those children responsible instead of trying to stop world hunger by serving up guilt sandwiches on a forum... ::)
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not one cent is received, it redirected to arms dealers for weapons.
how do u like that s h i t.
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Oh dear Wilby...
Your history of providing valuable ideas free of charge to proponents of open source material is legendary in this community... 2258 posts to date... please point us towards the ones of note...
Noise ? Noise ? Children dying is classified by you as Noise ?
It is my belief that every soul present on this planet at this time is responsible for every other soul...
Clearly you have stated that if it is not your direct offspring you bear no responsibility for the safekeeping of anothers child... that is an incredibly powerful statement of intent!
If it is not your child, the responsibility is not yours, and it is ok to let them die ? Even when you have a device in your possession that would solve the survival needs of the family unit ??
Wow...
Did you really say that ?
You do not understand the significance and importance of an easily replicable overunity device... Is that what you are declaring loud and clear to this forum ?
Pretty enlightening stuff...
I always imagined the end for you being much more graceful than a self inflicted wound... we live and learn...
You have stated for the record that you care not for your neighbours child, and would happily watch them die, as it is not your responsibility to attempt to save them...
Alas poor Wilby... I fear your credibility has been dealt a mortal blow by your own hand...
RM :)
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I actually do understand the significance of it. Anywhere could become habitable and productive. An ion drive would be useful. carbon footprints would go away. In Thirty years or so oil would be primarily a lubricant. And people will still be dying at the same rate for another hundred years. People will still live in shanty towns, mud huts etc....
Greece may default by tuesday,Germany will follow, the dollar index will go up, metals should pull back. The market will drop on monday and rally back by the end of the week. So what. It is easy to say what you would do hypothetically. But, If you were holding a winning lottery ticket, I bet you would cash it in.
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Oh dear Wilby...
Your history of providing valuable ideas free of charge to proponents of open source material is legendary in this community... 2258 posts to date... please point us towards the ones of note...
my 'history' is irrelevant... try another logical fallacy. ::)
Noise ? Noise ? Children dying is classified by you as Noise ?
yes, yes. no, your logical fallacies are noise... ie: your implication that he would be responsible for 22,000 children dying per day.
It is my belief that every soul present on this planet at this time is responsible for every other soul...
you can believe whatever you want. that doesn't make it so.
Clearly you have stated that if it is not your direct offspring you bear no responsibility for the safekeeping of anothers child... that is an incredibly powerful statement of intent!
indeed.
If it is not your child, the responsibility is not yours, and it is ok to let them die ? Even when you have a device in your possession that would solve the survival needs of the family unit ??
not my problem. but since you seem to care so much why is it that you have devices in your possession (medicines, money, etc.) right now that could save lives... and why are you being so greedy and keeping them?
Wow...
indeed.
Did you really say that ?
no. check your reading skills and comprehension... ::) i said this: "i have some great ideas! but they cost a lot of money (millions - had you come here with something to open-source the ideas would've been free) as i would like to become disgustingly wealthy. ;) other than that, my only idea for you would be to hire a brilliant marketing agent. i hear steve jobs isn't so busy anymore...
never mind the 'save the children' noise. that's all it is... noise. someone else trying to make you responsible for a problem that is not yours. 22,000 kids died... and how is that your responsibility? were they your kids? ::)
the ape should evolve and do something to make the parents of those children responsible instead of trying to stop world hunger by serving up guilt sandwiches on a forum... ::)"
You do not understand the significance and importance of an easily replicable overunity device... Is that what you are declaring loud and clear to this forum ?
no. and stop with the gross hyperbole, i said no such thing nor implied anything of the sort.
Pretty enlightening stuff...
wow... your logical fallacies really take you to some self righteous places don't they...
I always imagined the end for you being much more graceful than a self inflicted wound... we live and learn...
imagine on...
You have stated for the record that you care not for your neighbours child, and would happily watch them die, as it is not your responsibility to attempt to save them...
liar. i have said no such thing. please provide a quote of where i said "i care not for my neighbors child". please provide a quote of where i said i would "happily watch them die". it is not my responsibility to save anyone.
Alas poor Wilby... I fear your credibility has been dealt a mortal blow by your own hand...
RM :)
::) try a cogent argument next time...
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I have given this concept some thought a while back and could find only one real answer to turn such a discovery into wealth.
First a patent would be of no value because the magnitude of the discovery would be worth more than everything patented to this point in history so you could bet some law would change and they would make your discovery freeware (so to speak).The value is to high for a single entity to control.
Given this problem, I figured the fastest way to turn it to money is also the easiest. Simply make 100,000 small scale models of the working device and sell them with plans on how it operates and how to build a large up scale model on Ebay for 100 each.
Once the market is flooded, it would be game on and you would surly have sold 50 to 80 thousand models with plans, at $100. each.
Not a huge amount of money, but easy, fast and unstoppable. Plus, in the end with the device in the masses, Money would end up useless. (People will be throwing their money in the streets) I think the phrase goes.
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not one cent is received, it redirected to arms dealers for weapons.
how do u like that s h i t.
It really is shit. If someone think the oil is the biggest business in this world, it is not. The biggest business is drugs. On the 2.nd place - weapons. Far behind that, on the 3.rd place - oil.
Weapons is big business. Litterally speaking: Where there is any chance of getting money, it is primarily used for drugs and weapons. The business of this world really sucks...
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I have given this concept some thought a while back and could find only one real answer to turn such a discovery into wealth.
First a patent would be of no value because the magnitude of the discovery would be worth more than everything patented to this point in history so you could bet some law would change and they would make your discovery freeware (so to speak).The value is to high for a single entity to control.
Given this problem, I figured the fastest way to turn it to money is also the easiest. Simply make 100,000 small scale models of the working device and sell them with plans on how it operates and how to build a large up scale model on Ebay for 100 each.
Once the market is flooded, it would be game on and you would surly have sold 50 to 80 thousand models with plans, at $100. each.
Not a huge amount of money, but easy, fast and unstoppable. Plus, in the end with the device in the masses, Money would end up useless. (People will be throwing their money in the streets) I think the phrase goes.
Might work and I sure would consider $10 Million a huge amount of money.
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Just a couple of things ( of many more ), to consider.
To manufacture, for example, 100 thousand units may not be an easy task.
The seller needs to consider raw materials purchase, manufacturing of parts and assembly, and of course all involved time costs.
Time costs include everything from time to order parts, interface with the machine shop, assemble them, set up/maintain website, process orders, shipments, follow-ups etc…
How long does it take to put a unit together and how much do the materials, parts assembly cost per unit? How many units will be produced per day?
Then what is the profit per unit?
For such volumes, one may need a small assembly line and few people to work etc. These people will want to get paid, so at least some sizeable starting investment capital needs to be had and so on.
Maybe a device can be extremely simple and most of the above are minimized…
Interesting thread.
Thanks
Mike
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Wilby your history is not irrelevant, although I am sure you would like it to be, in my opinion you are the most prolific troll that has ever appeared on this forum.
The logical fallacy argument is one you trot out far to often, only occasionally do you bother to explain why you consider the argument to be fallacious.
My implication that he would be responsible for 22,000 children dying per day is not a logical fallacy, by the very pursuit and attainment of a free energy device the inventor has made himself ethically responsible, by achieving the ability to effect real change in this regard he has presented himself with a choice, and therefore a responsibility.
I said you do not understand the significance and importance of an easily replicable overunity device. This is not gross hyperbole, you implied this when you said 22,000 kids died and how is that your responsibility ?
To suggest that an individual gives away every asset he owns is ridiculous. To do so would barely make a dent in the problem and would prevent a stable base from which to address the root of the problem, which is the control of energy.
I was in error when I said you stated you care not for your neighbours child and would happily watch them die, it would have been more accurate to say that it was my interpretation of what you said. Considering your selfish attitude I do not think I was far from the truth.
So what is your purpose on this forum ? Why do you stalk the threads like a predator waiting for an opportunity to attack people via the manipulation of language ?
RM :)
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I actually do understand the significance of it. Anywhere could become habitable and productive. An ion drive would be useful. carbon footprints would go away. In Thirty years or so oil would be primarily a lubricant. And people will still be dying at the same rate for another hundred years. People will still live in shanty towns, mud huts etc....
Greece may default by tuesday,Germany will follow, the dollar index will go up, metals should pull back. The market will drop on monday and rally back by the end of the week. So what. It is easy to say what you would do hypothetically. But, If you were holding a winning lottery ticket, I bet you would cash it in.
So, anywhere could become habitable and productive, removing the issue of basic survival for everyone and therefore saving millions of lives... but people will still be dying at the same rate for another hundred years ? I think not.
An overunity device is not a winning lottery ticket. One will alter the structure of our society on this planet, the other will enrich an individual beyond what they require for survival.
RM :)
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It really is shit. If someone think the oil is the biggest business in this world, it is not. The biggest business is drugs. On the 2.nd place - weapons. Far behind that, on the 3.rd place - oil.
Weapons is big business. Litterally speaking: Where there is any chance of getting money, it is primarily used for drugs and weapons. The business of this world really sucks...
I understand and appreciate what you are saying. Although, if you think about it, one of the main motivators for the number one and two markets you describe is suppression.
For weapons, think war or turf. Well, war usually occurs as a result of greed for resources. So with a free energy device, there will be less need for current high price resources thus less need for violent confrontation.
Second drugs. If you are thinking illegal drugs most people resort to them to escape the pressures of society. If you crush the $$ control over energy, there will be less pressure on people (in the end) and thus less need for an escape. If you are talking medicine, well I can think of many many things burning all around me that are known carcinogens. (think tailpipe)
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Wilby your history is not irrelevant, although I am sure you would like it to be, in my opinion you are the most prolific troll that has ever appeared on this forum.
my history is irrelevant. were are not talking about what i am doing... we are talking about what justsomeguy is doing. thus any mention of my history is either an attempt to misdirect (red herring) or ad hominem tu quo que... why don't you go familiarize yourself with the basic fallacies?
The logical fallacy argument is one you trot out far to often, only occasionally do you bother to explain why you consider the argument to be fallacious.
not my fault hardly anyone here knows what a cogent argument is... ::) i get tired of explaining why something is a fallacy only to see it repeated again and again and again... now why don't you go to nizkor.org and learn what the various fallacies are so i don't have to hold your hand and step you through a cogent argument... ::)
My implication that he would be responsible for 22,000 children dying per day is not a logical fallacy, by the very pursuit and attainment of a free energy device the inventor has made himself ethically responsible, by achieving the ability to effect real change in this regard he has presented himself with a choice, and therefore a responsibility.
yes, it is... it does not follow... non sequitur, which all fallacies are. just because you "feel", "believe" or whatever... doesn't make it so. he is NOT responsible regardless of whatever your moral compass "believes"... tu stultus es... furthermore, "ethics" are subjective... again, tu stultus es. ::)
I said you do not understand the significance and importance of an easily replicable overunity device. This is not gross hyperbole, you implied this when you said 22,000 kids died and how is that your responsibility ?
yes it is gross hyperbole. i understand the significance of unlimited energy for every man, woman, child as well as you do. to suggest i don't simply because i don't agree with your little 'morality issue' is asinine. the hyperbole was demonstrated by you with your gross exaggerations and misrepresentations of what i actually said.
To suggest that an individual gives away every asset he owns is ridiculous. To do so would barely make a dent in the problem and would prevent a stable base from which to address the root of the problem, which is the control of energy.
you have no evidence that it would barely make a dent. i never suggested that an individual "give away everything" can you provide a quote of where i said that? no you cannot. you are simply engaging in more of your hyperbole and misrepresentation! here is what is ridiculous... to suggest that i am responsible for someone else. ::)
I was in error when I said you stated you care not for your neighbours child and would happily watch them die, it would have been more accurate to say that it was my interpretation of what you said. Considering your selfish attitude I do not think I was far from the truth.
yeah you were in error. that was another example of your gross hyperbole. think what you want. you don't know me son...
So what is your purpose on this forum ? Why do you stalk the threads like a predator waiting for an opportunity to attack people via the manipulation of language ?
RM :)
my purpose is irrelevant to the topic at hand... but since you love your logical fallacies i'll tell you... i'm the logic police. ::) and if you are engaging in logical fallacy you'll probably hear from me. more so if you are self-righteous or presenting yourself as an 'expert' or 'authority'.
i can play your fallacy game too... what is your purpose? to come here and attack anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion? to call those who don't agree with you trolls? are you the spawn of omnibus?
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An overunity device is not a winning lottery ticket. One will alter the structure of our society on this planet, the other will enrich an individual beyond what they require for survival.
RM :)
assumption... you have no evidence to support this statement.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Cassette
"Although there were other magnetic tape cartridge systems, the Compact Cassette became dominant as a result of Philips' decision in the face of pressure from Sony to license the format free of charge. Philips also released the Norelco Carry-Corder 150 recorder/player in the U.S. in November 1964. By 1966 over 250,000 recorders had been sold in the US alone and Japan soon became the major source of recorders. By 1968, 85 manufacturers had sold over 2.4 million players."
This above statement can be an evidence of the dillemma: how to make money without having exclusive licence: just start production, there is enough room for all the producers.
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That would be a fine idea, if you already had a factory, a couple years of design and tooling, suppliers lined up and ready to ship, and a huge amount of money to pay all of those people. Unfortunately, I don't have that set up. As soon as the very first one goes out the door, China and many others will be cranking them out in a week. My money needs to be made on the sale of the technology, not the products.
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sell the power!
boot strap up from your own use to pushing gigawatts to the grid.
by the time anyone figures it out you should be up to megawatts and have some serious cash flow.
you did build a working model to power your home right?
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Maybe Mark Dansie could be of assistance. According to Sterling Allan's site - PESN, he is assisting the inventors of a solid state free energy generator with industry partners and investors. He also posts on this site from time to time.
http://pesn.com/2011/07/23/9501875_Number-1_Breakthrough_Solid_State_Generator/ (http://pesn.com/2011/07/23/9501875_Number-1_Breakthrough_Solid_State_Generator/)
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...Unfortunately, I don't have that set up...
Then, how will you find money for patenting? Sometimes starting production just from scrap would cost you less than the patenting process.
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I can easily get the money for patenting. The problem is - it can NOT be patented. You can not patent a property of a material, even if this property is currently unknown, it still is naturally occurring. You can't patent water because it is wet.
Even if I patented the most efficient design, a 50% efficient design would still produce free energy. So the only way to make money without a huge investment and risk is to sell the technology outright.
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I understand and appreciate what you are saying. Although, if you think about it, one of the main motivators for the number one and two markets you describe is suppression.
For weapons, think war or turf. Well, war usually occurs as a result of greed for resources. So with a free energy device, there will be less need for current high price resources thus less need for violent confrontation.
Second drugs. If you are thinking illegal drugs most people resort to them to escape the pressures of society. If you crush the $$ control over energy, there will be less pressure on people (in the end) and thus less need for an escape. If you are talking medicine, well I can think of many many things burning all around me that are known carcinogens. (think tailpipe)
This is very well put Shadesz. This is what I also have bee thinking of too.
Releasing the pressure by offering free energy to everyone. I really do believe that free energy will not only cause less pressure, but also cause better handling and distribution of food and medicines - because people will think different - greed will not be neccessary. It is enough food in this world to feed twice the number of people on this earth. But greed and bad attitudes make sure the food isn't reaching all. Instead we waste food. That is a shame!
So keep up the good work folks :)
Vidar
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So Wilby you are the "logic police" ?
Please post the mandate that you were granted by Stefan, the forum owner, to act as the logic police authority on this forum.
Failure to provide said mandate will by definition mean that you have been self-appointed.
Self-appointment to a position of authority is a self-righteous act.
Presenting yourself as an expert on logic is also a self-righteous act.
You fail the very criteria by which you presume to come here and judge others. (Assuming you have no official mandate)
Furthermore, you are selective in your policing...
I actually do understand the significance of it. Anywhere could become habitable and productive. An ion drive would be useful. carbon footprints would go away. In Thirty years or so oil would be primarily a lubricant. And people will still be dying at the same rate for another hundred years. People will still live in shanty towns, mud huts etc....
This statement by Justsomeguy is riddled with logical fallacy and assumption... and not a single comment by you pointing this out. You have an agenda Wilby, it is clear for all to see.
You know what my purpose is, to cooperate with the members of this forum in developing technology to make the world a better place for tomorrow's children.
Many people disagree with me but I do not call them troll's, I call you a troll because I believe you are a troll.
And Omnibus is not anything to do with me...
RM :)
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Science Discoveries are rewarded every year in fields of Chemistry and Physics. It is called the Nobel Prize. The Nobel Prize amount for 2011 is set at Swedish kronor (SEK) 10 million per full Nobel Prize. That is about 1.5 million in US dollars. Along with the money, diploma, and international fame you would also be asked to speak (more money) for several years at many Scientific forums and college lecture tours. All this for a great discovery. No patent required.
You need to publish your discovery to be eligable. It should be a Scientific document with proof of your discovery.
I suggest also that you create a good Non-disclosure document and take your discovery to several universities and have your discovery verified first.
Then publish your findings.
If you truly have a great discovery, the award will come.
Bill
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Say that you have discovered a previously unknown property of a substance that allows you to prove overunity beyond any doubt. Repeatable and reproducible by anyone. You have used different materials, meters, gauges, and even multiple locations to rule out outside influences (I used to be a metrologist, I ran a materials testing lab, And process engineering for a major corp. trust me). Also assume that with such a breakthrough that you would like to become disgustingly wealthy. You are familiar with the laws of thermodynamics, but you also can see it with you own eyes and hold it in your hands. No input required. It just works. Linear or rotational and output is measured with "work"- force over distance.
Now you start researching patents and find out that you can't protect it. How do you make Billions from it? JREF has a million dollar prize. There are some X prizes and some oil guy. But how do you make real money with it?
I would really like some ideas.
As a meteorologist, you know that properties of materials are broken down to main categories.
Physical and Chemical properties.
Chemical properties suggest the substances ability to react and form a new chemical substance. It would be very difficult (but not impossible) to get much notice for a new chemical property discovery.
That leaves a new discovery of a physical property of a substance. I doubt that you are looking at radioactive decay effect of a material. So that leaves us with magnetic and electrical properties.
Materials can be pure substances as an individual element, or compounds or alloys.
Most all the individual elements have been studied beyond our imagination for all their physical properties. However, just look at last years Nobel Prize on Graphine.
So I imagine you are working with a compound or alloy that forms naturally and has not been previously studied for the physical property that you discovered.
A good guess would be that you may have found a material that blocks magnetic fields. A material that acts as a magnetic shield. That would be a great discovery.
Bill
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2010 Nobel Prize for Physics
http://youtu.be/we3kWMkSGtg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/9491789.stm
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Metrologist. I suspect you were auto-corrected.And materials testing, primarily microstructure analysis. Your logic is reasonably correct. So now you have a material with unusual properties. A very specific compound designed to have other properties, but you stumbled upon a "side effect". How do you sell it ?
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Metrologist. I suspect you were auto-corrected.And materials testing, primarily microstructure analysis. Your logic is reasonably correct. So now you have a material with unusual properties. A very specific compound designed to have other properties, but you stumbled upon a "side effect". How do you sell it ?
Sorry about the auto correction. I suggest you look at the Nobel Prize for Graphine.
The strongest now known material in the world. The physical property is not patentable. It was isolated using a graphite pencil and some scotch tape. The process for using silcon sheets to produce large quantities is patentable.
If your "side effect" requires some process then go for a patent.
If you are intested in producing say a motor generator that runs OU because of this material use, then that is process/method of acheiving a result. That would be patentable. Anyone wanting to use your method/process and material would need to pay you a royality.
If not, do as I suggested before and publish your finding. If it is as you say proving OU, and provides for a low cost altnerative energy, you may receive a Nobel Prize.
If you are looking for answers on how to get into production, sales and marketing of a product, you are looking at the wrong forum.
Bill
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Properties of a naturally occurred material is not patentable. BUT: The same properties of the same material UNDER SPECIFIC CONDITION is patentable, I guess. And these "specific condition(s)" can be naturally occured conditions.
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That would be a fine idea, if you already had a factory, a couple years of design and tooling, suppliers lined up and ready to ship, and a huge amount of money to pay all of those people. Unfortunately, I don't have that set up. As soon as the very first one goes out the door, China and many others will be cranking them out in a week. My money needs to be made on the sale of the technology, not the products.
True, but you only really need the models for those who don't believe it actually works. You could produce only a few models as proof of concept at some higher cost, then sell plans only for $100 each and achieve the same goal. Your final cost would include a web page with a PDF that could be purchased for the $100. You have no real excuse except for no real device!
Get it on the market!
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Patenting will not work, a worldwide patent would be required which is a lengthy process and very expensive. By applying for a patent you are applying for a contract with the government which is all they need to slap a national security seal on it and disappear it forever. Besides that, if you ever did begin producing it under patent somewhere like China will ignore the patent and produce better quality for less money... and your gone.
Plans will not work, assuming the device is genuine some people will buy the plans. Soon after such an important device will have the plans posted on the internet and few will buy them when they can get them for free via torrent for example. Look at the music and software industry, you cannot sell data securely anymore since the internet went big. You might make a living off plans, but Justsomeguy does not want to make a living, he wants to be disgustingly wealthy.
Nobel Prize route may work if the device or process or whatever is independently verified and then published. The money you would make from the Nobel Prize is more than most people would ever need but remember the disgustingly wealthy desire... will it be enough ? then you have to deal with the fame aspect, which some people do not want.
Or you could just give it away and live off the fame, and also there is the potential of honest decent men such as Sterling Allan who have publicly stated that they will voluntarily pay a royalty to any inventor who open sources their work. The devices will be developed and sold by these decent folks and the inventor will get his %.
The only other alternative is to sell out to big business, for an obscene amount of money (disgustingly wealthy kinda scale) and then sign a NDA, destroy all your prototypes and notes, and then sit back while your device is hidden from the world forever and you can go off and enjoy your wealth. Unless they decide a hitman is far cheaper and offers a reasonable chance of containing the dissemination of critical information.
So not much choice really is there...
RM :)
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Anybody that thinks he can get a Patent on an Overunity Device is EXTREMELY NAIVE & OUT TO LUNCH.
PLEASE WISE UP!!!
Click on this Link to see why:
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7nSg.mxOozMAQ2pXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDUCMyNzY2Njc5BF9yAzIEYW8DMARjc3JjcHZpZANERmR3MTBvRzd2NGdrRXA5VGh3MmxRTW9SLjUuaFU1cy5xQUFDSV94BGZyA3lmcC10LTcwMQRmcjIDc2J0bgRuX2dwcwMwBG9yaWdpbgNzcnAEcXVlcnkDZW5lcmd5IHBhdGVudCAiTmF0aW9uYWwgc2VjdXJpdHkiIHN1cHByZXNzaW9uBHNhbwMxBHZ0ZXN0aWQD?p=energy+patent+%22National+security%22+suppression&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701&type_param=
.
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If China (and any other country) ignores international patent law, eventually it can use it only on their internal market which anyway is still not fully accessible for the rest of the world. Anyway, everybody can use a patent without a patent owner's permission; such producer only can not make profit from such product (officially). But, this also can be tricked, for example by selling a disassembled kit with included some other components, with an instruction that this patent "CAN BE" assembled from that kit, (among other projects), mentioning that this is done only "for the educational purposes" or using some other "magic phrase".
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So, any Warren Buffet types out there want to own this? any verification process you want, third party, whatever.
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So, any Warren Buffet types out there want to own this? any verification process you want, third party, whatever.
If you are looking for Warren Buffet rich type people you are in the right place. We are all so rich here that we are just waiting for someone like you to come along with a new discovery so we can make billions more money. Where can we send our checks?
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I think selling plans could work!
You just need to sell them on a web site with a stated end date. Everyone could buy the plans but would not get them until the end date, and you could no longer purchase them after the end date.
Then, after the end date you could determine if you have a sufficient amount of money to release them.
If not, people could select if they want a refund or let it ride to the next end date. Each time the plans are put up for sale the price is also increased. Those who get in early get the best price.
When you finally get enough money to satisfy your goals, the plans are then sent to the registered email of each person.
Of course some proof on your part would be required but the plan is other wise fool proof to guarantee you reach your goal!
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Remember that a patent, like any other goods, must be "sellable", by setting a reasonable price for it. Goods won't have a buyer when you set unreasonable price for it; an inventor will die in indigence after setting too high price. I think the best solution is to sell it on the basis of "royalties".
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So Wilby you are the "logic police" ?
it appears so, you certainly don't use it...
Please post the mandate that you were granted by Stefan, the forum owner, to act as the logic police authority on this forum.
there is no mandate. i used the words 'logic police' as a colloquial phrase. ::) tu stultus es...
Failure to provide said mandate will by definition mean that you have been self-appointed.
see. here you go off into logical fallacy land again... this time it's ad hominem tu quo que. again, tu stultus es...
Self-appointment to a position of authority is a self-righteous act.
assumption... nor is it a position of authority... ::) pretty much negates that 'argument' of yours doesn't it... LOL
Presenting yourself as an expert on logic is also a self-righteous act.
where have i said i am an expert? more of your lies...
You fail the very criteria by which you presume to come here and judge others. (Assuming you have no official mandate)
no i don't. pointing out a logical fallacy is not a "judgement" by any stretch of the imagination. ::)
Furthermore, you are selective in your policing...
yes i am... whaaa effing whaaa. ::)
This statement by Justsomeguy is riddled with logical fallacy and assumption... and not a single comment by you pointing this out. You have an agenda Wilby, it is clear for all to see.
incorrect. there were no logical fallacies in that statement. if you disagree point them out specifically and define why they are fallacies... ::) there were some assumptions which is understandable. he was responding to you... in kind. ie: quid pro quo. ::) he was replying to assumption and conjecture with assumption and conjecture. are you that dense?
You know what my purpose is, to cooperate with the members of this forum in developing technology to make the world a better place for tomorrow's children.
then do that... instead of trying to foist your subjective norms upon justsomeguy who obviously (from their first post) doesn't agree with your subjective norms..
Many people disagree with me but I do not call them troll's, I call you a troll because I believe you are a troll.
you can believe whatever you want... i don't care. i believe you are a mental midget with no grasp on logic or reason... there, we have traded juvenile name calling... can we get back a logical, cogent discussion now? do you know what one is?
And Omnibus is not anything to do with me...
RM :)
::)
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hey fatbird...
you don't have to post all that garbage with your yahoo search links you know?
this link is the same, and it doesn't fubar the page margins. please change yours to this:
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=energy+patent+%22National+security%22+suppression
a little more info for whomever cares. all you need is the site address and the search query.
so, after the http://search.yahoo.com/search?
you put a p (for parameter) then an = and then your search query.
the %22 is just a '' but it needs to be encoded to be sent over the internet.
the + are just spaces but need to be encoded to be sent over the internet.
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Selling plans for a specified release could work. I actually have several hundred samples of the material on hand and many more available. Maybe a "proof kit" with plans or just simple instructions giving the unique properties that the person could test. That is an interesting Idea. I am still open to any Ideas. Thank you for the input so far.
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1.get a loan, assemble a team of "profit partners" who will work out of their own money until you start earning money from selling your own device, manufacture and sell the device.
2.Sell technology to the "Big guys" who can manufacture, with a lawful agreement of having a % per device sold or a stock shares? If you know more people and have lots of connections maybe you can try selling it to a country? :D
3.Give it to the World and ask for "Donations". This idea must be well advertised, you let different parties from all over the world know that it came from you and have them share it to others as well but credit should all go to you, make a website and ask for donations in there. Have them link all to your website. If you use your imagination more this 3rd option can be most profitable. Infact will leave your name in the history of mankind.
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It is refreshing to get real input, instead of trying to blame me for millions of starving children.
The same gangs stealing the food shipments today, will still be stealing them years from now. Some friends of mine went to Haiti after the quake and saw the food warehouse nearest them get cleaned out. Not one of them saw me take anything - I wasn't even in the country. I wasn't in Africa when the relief convoys got ambushed either. But according to some, taking time to plan and make my own life better is equal to genocide.
We already generate power, grow food, ship products, provide medical care. The real problem of getting these things to everyone is infrastructure. So I have a novel new way to produce energy. It won't fix everything. It is a much cheaper, cleaner method of providing power. I have tinkered with this stuff for years. That is why I even thought about it and tested it. So what is wrong with wanting to sell it? We in the U.S. spent $1.16 Trillion dollars on energy in 2006 (latest numbers). Trillion with a "T". How dare I want to retire comfortably for providing a solution that can lower this number drastically.
Once again, I would like to thank all of you who have posted ideas and I look forward to more.
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Hi, a few month back the same question was asked.
Here is my "version" of how to make some money and open source it.
The best way to make money in this kind of field is IMHO:
1 - Make around least 5 working USABLE examples of you device.
2 - If you have enough money go to step 3, this otherwise go to 5:
3 - divide your invention in two separate (use- and clue-less) parts
4 - Order at different companies the two parts a 100 pieces each
5 - Give one or two of the devices away to a charity or community in your local community at a place were a lot of people will attend
6 - In the meantime assemble your 100 new products
7 - Open the ringing doorbell
8 - Sell your product locally
9 - Use the generated money to order more
10 - By the time competition catches up, you should already have a ship coming from china with two containers of both half's
So without patenting, you can take a fair part, be the inventor and still open source it, just use your head start.
If you have a working device, not selling above a 1000 bucks, i think the neighborhood would be the best place to start. If it really works.. you should not worry about the rest... (except for the MIB )
Good Luck!
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Booksrights
Movierights
Action figures of yourself
Inspirational speech fees
Accepting a marriage fee from a king to wed his daughter
Nobel prize
All very lucrative. How richt do you want to be?
For good measure, I'd brand the device well, copyright the heck out of it, and be the Apple of FE.
An engineer will be utterly unable to walk this path. Total and complete removal from the marketing side by the engineer is elimetary.
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Terrorists upset the current status quo. Any FE device would change the world forever and would certainly upset the current status quo. So, justsomeguy, if you have working FE device that makes you a terrorist in a gigantic scale.
Making 100 thousand units will not work out, you need capital for that. You cannot start from scratch thinking first of selling few units, then make enough money to make some more and continue that route. You might as well go to kindergarden and try to sell candy without getting unnoticed.
Patenting is worthless. Patent some aspect of it in US and you get gag order and 30 years of prison if you open your mouth about it ever again.
Patent it elsewhere, someone will use it anyway. Do you have money to run lawsuits against patent breakers ? Dont think so either.
Only way is to open source it, then have it verified by a 3rd party and try to get one of those prizes out there. If you do it other way around 'good guys' will know it first and they know how to deal with terrorists. Besides, it is easier to get a prize than to create a factory and control it.
Maybe a website that accepts donations once device gets enough fame.
Give it to google to generate power to their servers. In return you would get a link to your webpage in google's searchpage, "This server is powered by FE device invented by justsomeguy. Click here to donate".
What I am saying is that invention that is worth billions is too valuable for inventor to get filthy rich, atleast using traditional methods. Inventor might get something, but most likely he gets a visit from the not so good guys.
But before you make any moves, protect it yourself. Make enough copies, information, whatever and give it trustworthy persons. Encrypt files and put the code to decipher in your testament. If all goes bad invention will not get lost.
I decided long ago when I started my FE research that anything I figure out will be open source. Thats because I am lazy bum, fun thing is to figure it out, not to make millions of copies. What comes after that just comes, or not.
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I think the prize route is the next logical step. Thanks everyone.
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I think the prize route is the next logical step. Thanks everyone.
Good luck Justsomeguy,
The prize route means you need to publish your finding with a couple publishers as well as a Scientific Journal. History has shown first to publish gets the credit. The telescope was not invented by Galileo but first published by him, but he recieved the credit as well as lots of money. You will need to demonstrate your finding, as well as, show true scientific data collected to prove the results. It is only when others can reproduce your results that it will be accepted. As soon as you have your document ready to publish please send a copy to our forum. Many of us would be glad to try to reproduce your results which would be extra free varification.
Bill
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I think the prize route is the next logical step. Thanks everyone.
I agree this is probably the best direction. Since you have several hundred samples then this is likely dealing with polarized materials that accumulate a charge.
Once your work is made known, others in the field could likely develop similar materials with higher efficiency.
Then if a similar material is found that worked better, your patent would of been of little value anyway.
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I know it can be greatly improved, but the studies and testing of sooo many variables would be a monumental task. it would take a materials testing facility at least a couple years to do it. Better to let thousands of people work on it.
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Ok, so I went and looked at logical fallacy and fallacious arguments, and found a technique for controlling a debate via waging a war of attrition...
I started here:
http://www.opednews.com/a/79376?show=votes#allcomments
And in the comments below this article I found this:
The new debating paradign
You are so right in this Rady, kudos for bringing up this subject.
What we see now is that ad hominem's usually dominate debate. We see it on TV, and we especially hear it on talk radio. On neocon forum sites, that is virtually THE ONLY kind of arguments you can see (my God, go to one some time and be prepared to be angry for at least a week, lol) .
What is so disgusting about this, is that young people see this and believe that it is the proper way to debate.
I believe that ad hominem's should be addressed directly whenever they appear; as well as the other forms of sophistic manipulation such as straw men and red herrings. This constant calling-out will strip the user of their "favorite" tactics, and help the audience to see the manipulations.
Debate arguments should always be made with facts, ideas, and reason.... Not sputim, acid, and smoke.
Another problem i often see with forum debate is that the participants tend to take the replies personally. This is of course "natural"; however a serious debater should always understand that both the replies and their own comments MUST be aimed at the audience at large.... Not the opponent specifically.
Understand that every well-made debate point is a challenge.. And another opportunity to give your own. This is how you win debates... It is often a battle of attrition.
And oddly enough it is also the way to silence trolls and shills: Once they realize that every vitrolic comment just brings back more calm, logical, well-crafted points in return... They will cut their losses and quit (the smarter ones, anyway lol).
by Steve Windisch (jibbguy) (14 fans, 24 articles, 4 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 639 comments [462 recommended]) on Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:45:09 AM
I found this interesting because Steve Windisch is famously accredited as being one of Rosemary Ainslies experts, as we can see on page 4 of this document:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/4/The-Strange-Case-of-the-Ro-by-Steve-Windisch-ji-091219-425.html
Members of the 2009 Open Source Rosemary Ainslie Circuit Project Team:
Rosemary Ainslie (Internet name seen in the Forums: "Witsend")
Andrew Gardner
Harvey Gramm ("Harvey")
Glen Lettenmaier ("Fuzzytomcat")
Donovan Martin
Ashweth Palise ("Ash")
Steve Windisch ("Jibbguy")
Open Source Researchers and Circuit Replicators of Special Note:
Aaron Murakami
Dr. Peter Lindemann
"Gotoluc"
Michael John Nunnerley
When we take a closer look at the Rosemary Ainslie debacle we find Wilby defending Rosemary at every opportunity, but what puzzles me is the lack of even a single mention of logical fallacy in regard to Rosemary, and as the regular members in this community know, Rosemary is not strong on logic... so why the bias ?
Then we come across this, page 23 reply #344:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9442.330
Hi Wilby
There is a greater harm being done in answering Omnibus than in ignoring him. I - unfortunately - have my days cut out as I've got this project to do on the thesis and it's taking much more time than I can afford here.
@Omnibus - there is no substitute for learning. Clearly you consider that you've learned all that you can. It is unfortunate. But it is your life and your free will. Your judgements are utterly clouded as your opinion is formed outside of the facts. This is evident to anyone who reads your posts. And that you rush to judgement at all shows that you want to teach rather than learn - that you want to be understood rather than understand - that you want to be heard rather than 'hear'. That's more or less the recipe of a bigot but it's comforting, nonetheless that bigots are also tolerated here on Open Source.
It is becoming apparent to me that in the interests of furthering this bigotry that you're happy to sacrifice the standard of this thread. I'm having difficulty tolerating your contributions at all. I am absolutely NOT sure how to deal with this. Perhaps Wilby or Bob could advise me what to do - on or off forum. Right now I would be happier if I could see some evidence of discussion. I see none. I only see a parade of opinion and I've already advised you on the merits of this. It would carry relevance only if that opinion also carried the courage and conviction of a disclosure of your identity. Otherwise - for all I know - your objects here may simply be to diminish this technology and I'm not sure if I'm prepared to forgo something that is of benefit to Open Source simply to satisfy your substantial ego and pride or - God forbid - some hidden agenda.
What I would suggest is that you stop posting here until you've had the decency and courtesy to learn about the subject that we're dealing with - specifically the thesis that requires the evidence of an apparent technology that enables COP>1. Then argue it's merits - not spout your opinion on those merits.
Wilby - let me know what to do.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
edited. Spelling
It appears there is more going on here than meets the eye... The Rosemary Ainslie brand of science attacks scientific integrity itself... and some of her experts seek to control and manipulate our conversations from the shadows of anonymity...
Your all big boys, so make your own minds up!
RM :)
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Ok,...
...RM :)
E-ape, how does this post relates to this thread's theme? I can't catch it... Do you crave for an attention?
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Hey Qwert,
If you cannot connect the dots between this threads writings and many other threads writings then you have not been paying attention... at all... alternatively you have been paying attention quite closely and this is a deliberate attempt to misdirect attention from my previous post... almost desperate perhaps!
It will comfort you to know that many other members on this site understand exactly what the previous post was about and how it relates not only to this threads theme but overunity.com and the free energy movement in general...
If investigating truth bothers you that much I will leave the site, no attention necessary...
Bye all, I am sick of this shit...
RM :)
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Thanks, e-ape. You are so much forgiving my lack of wit. Thanks for your good-bye.