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Author Topic: Fun Capacitor Circuit  (Read 11637 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2006, 01:48:30 AM »

1)Take 3 identical caps 2) lets call them C1,C2 and C3   3)charge C1 to 12 volts 4)connect C1 neg to C2 neg 5) connect C2 pos to C3 neg 6) finally connect C3 pos back over to C1 pos
 You will end up with approx. 8 volts in C1 and 4 volts in each C2 and C3  - thats it !

Best,

Okay, you end up with 3 x 22.000uF caps in series which have due to the series circuit now
about 7333 uF with a total voltage of 16 Volts= 8 + 4 + 4 Volts.
So does this 16 Volts at 7.333 uF run your motor longer than the 12 Volts at 22.000 uF ?
If yes, it is probably due to the motor you are using, that it has a better efficiency at
higher voltages or something like this...
If you would use just a load resistor you would see, that it will get hotter
at the 12 Volts at 22.000 uF cap.

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2006, 01:48:30 AM »

Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2006, 04:04:59 AM »


Salve a tutti

Very sorry.

But, I am just wondering.

According to pg46 descriptions and my following pics (should these pics being accurate).

In that case, the most important question could be: how can you charge a cap with a
single wire?

Or, I am mistaken something?

Best

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2006, 04:38:29 AM »
@NerzhDishual 

he is just placing C2+C3 in parallel with C1.
Then C1 discharges until it has 8 Volts and also C2+C3 have
8 Volts, so each C2= 4 Volts and C3= 4 Volts.
Then he puts alls 3 caps in series getting 16 Volts but at a lower
total capacity...
So I don?t think, he can run the motor longer on the 3 caps in series...
at least not in normal theory....
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 11:51:00 PM by hartiberlin »

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2006, 04:38:29 AM »
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Offline pg46

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2006, 01:55:56 PM »
Thanks NerzhDishual -

 Very nice diagrams, thanks! Yes indeed, that's the way I connected them.
Please note that the last connection from C3 pos back to C1 pos need only be momentary. Thanks also for your comments.

hartiberlin- You can see by the connections that my circuit is neither in series or parallel or else they are both! or maybe you could say that C1 and C3 are hooked in parallel but with a cap(C2) "in-line" between them ::)
 I do not connect any caps in series after my circuit as although that would be more volts, there would be less capacitance and so it will not run a motor any longer than the original C1 cap charged to 12 volts. So, before and after my circuit I do all testing on caps individually or else in parallel only.

 In this group of tests and examples I used all the same caps, 35volt 22,000uf caps and a single DC motor for any discharge timings.

 SET UP #1 - I charge C1 to 12 Volts, 22,000uf. If I connect C1 in parallel to empty C2 and C3 caps, I will end up with 4 volts and 66,000uf.  When I discharge this through my motor, it will take 30 seconds to empty the charge.
 SETUP #2, if I charge C1 to 12 volts at 22,000uf but then this time I run the pg46 circuit with C2 and C3 , I can get 1 cap at approx. 8 volts(C1) and two caps(C2&C3)at 4 volts each. So, then if I introduce another cap C4 and reconnect the 4 caps in parallel I will end up with 4 volts @ 88,000uf. Now, when I discharge this through the motor, this time it will take 40 seconds to empty the charge, approx. a 30% gain over the "normal" circuit with the same 12 volt input charge.
 The reason I use 4 volts to time the discharges is because "4" is a common denominator in both the original 12 volt charge and the resulting voltage from the pg46 ciruit(16v) The motor will run faster or slower depending on the voltage so I wanted to make sure I did the timings all using the same voltage.
 Another way I can say all this is that in setup#1, I can produce 3 caps of 4 volts each from a single 12 volt charge. With my circuit I can produce 4 caps at 4 volts each with the same single 12 volt charge.
 If one thinks of capacitors as batteries, one person might offer 3- 4 volt batteries from a single 12 volt charge whereas with my circuit one could offer 4 - 4volt batteries from a single 12 volt charge :)

Best,
 
 

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2006, 12:07:45 AM »
Okay, PG46,
now I see, what you are doing...
But you did not test,how long the motor will
run on the 12 Volts C1 cap only ?

The only thing you do with your circuit is, you
reduce the losses a bit..
The 12 Volt Cap has 1584 units energy,
the 3 caps at 4 Volts have 528 units energy
and the
4 caps at 4 volts have 704 units of energy, so
you reduce the losses from about 66 % to just 50 % ,
but in total you have lost about 50 % of the used input energy all in all.

You put 1584 units of energy into the  C1 cap, when you had charged it up to 12 Volts
and end up with 4 caps at 4 Volts , that is just left only 704 units of energy !

So just let the motor run on the 12 Volts C1 cap and it will
probably run for about 50 seconds or more...
so the energy equation is still valid with Wcap= 0.5 x C x V^2

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2006, 12:07:45 AM »
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Offline pg46

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2006, 10:56:27 AM »
Hi hartiberlin-

 Yes, when looking at the energy formulas there doesn't seem to be any gains. Where does the energy go when connecting a cap thats charged to 12 volts and connected in parallel with 2 others I wonder?
The interesting thing is that when you discharge the 12 volt cap alone through the motor, it will only run it for about 20 seconds!! not like the 50 sec you expected Hartiberlin. So whats going on then? Well of course I am not counting RPMs and nor testing with additional loads on. So its very likely the motor simply spins faster at 12 volt than at 4 volts and so discharges the stored energy in the cap quicker. This is why I even out all the caps to 4 volt charges before and after my circuit to do the tests, so that the motor will spin at the same RPMs.
 I didn't make any claims of "free energy". I just thought it was quite interesting that out of one cap charged to 12 volts, you normally would expect to only be able to get 3 caps charged to 4 volts each when connected in parallel, whereas with my circuit I can get 4 caps charged to 4 volts each from that same single cap charged to 12 volts. In this particular experiment thats an increase of 33.3 percent over the first circuit.
 I just wanted to report what I observed and thought that this perhaps could be a useful circuit for someone trying to use electricity more efficiently.

Best,
 

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2006, 09:20:49 PM »
Hi PG46,
many thanks anyway for running your experiment.
This is good, as it can show sometimes strange things
other people have not yet observed...
Anyway, that the 12 Volt cap is only running 20 seconds is
kind of strange, but okay, as the motor is probably a lower voltage
type it does not generate so much counter EMF voltage, so that
the inout current into the motor will be much higher
and thus the cap will be faster discharged...

yes, it is hard to explain, where all this energy went, when ou just
load up a parallel cap from a charged cap...
It is not like filling water from one glas to the other, but you loose always almost
50 % of the energy.
It comes probably mostly from the work you have todo to chargeup the dielectrium
inside the other cap.

Regards, Stefan,

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2006, 09:20:49 PM »
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Offline newton2

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Re: Fun Capacitor Circuit
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2006, 12:39:14 PM »
HELLO !

DO KEEP TRYING ON !

THE ELEMENTARY IDEA IS WELL FOUNDED !

Your suggestions are about , how in fact that caps inter-charges ,
e.g. the well-known (1/2)*(caps-value)*((caps-voltage)^2) to be the "caps-charged-energy" !

Your suggestions may seemingly , but just seemingly , appear to be "stopped" by the in-fact-caps-value-when-connected-in-parallel-serial ..... !

BUT DO CONTINUE , FOR YOUR EFFORTS WILL PROVIDE SOME REAL
FUNCTIONING POSSIBILITIES FOR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT , WHAT ENERGY IN FACT MAY HAPPEN TO BE !

You have made a "usefull conceipt" for further science investigations !

Ideas like your here written are in fact of the usefull kind making well foundings for getting the real facts working set-ups !

How about moveable C-plates/topological-structures , dielectrica to move , etc !

Your experimental layout I self emperically/theoretically by "modified networks theories/rules" did some calculations about some 15-20 Y ago !

(many such layouts/ideas do work and important: the steady going-on-and-aim-for discussions do improve Science in Theory & Practice)

Your idea/suggested conceipt appear somehow like the Classical-Mechanical-"integral of Force*way" , but and significantly marking this very point :
Electro-dynamics do not just "copy" all of "Classical Mechanics"-Force/Force-between-interacting-objects/acceleration/speed....etc;

THERE ARE SURDEN POSSIBILITIES IN ELECTRO-DYNAMICS !

Well , also to discuss/include "self-inductances" when having changing currents-to-plates/plates-charging-alterations !
May conventionel practical-electronics-120 Vac->lower-supply-voltages-layouts depict the tricky circumstances , that inductances
in some form/way have to be included when trying to directly-charge a capacitor !

Have a nice day and results-filled studies e.g. among "electrical networks/components/how to use/connect....etc" !

And saluting greetings also meant for other "topics"-writing authors i this overunity-forum ! 

 

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