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Author Topic: Collecting energy from thin air  (Read 12927 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Collecting energy from thin air
« on: September 05, 2011, 03:19:47 PM »
I wonder why it hasn't been more research in collecting energy from the airs temperature. A heat exchanger is moving energy from the outside air to heat the house inside. The applied energy to the pump is 30 - 50% of the energy you can get out of the heat exchanger. This is possible because there is about 5 x 10^18 kg of air around the world, and it will take litterally forever to emty the potential energy which the air carry with its temperature. The air is a limitless "battery" of energy and making a selfrunning engine which is running on air temperature only is absolutely possible. It does not violate any thermodynamic laws, and useful energy can be harvested - not milli Watts but kilo Watts from a moderate sized device.

So why isn't there more research in this field?

An average heat exchanger can produce about 3kW of heat, and consumes about 1kW to run the pump. At the best conditions, 4-5kW output at 1kW input. That means it is possible to make a heat exchanger which is actually PRODUCING electric energy to supply the whole housholde the whole year around. You don not even have to connect to the grid. All the power you need is in the air outside.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Collecting energy from thin air
« on: September 05, 2011, 03:19:47 PM »

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 11:57:36 PM »
So why isn't there more research in this field?
you know why... cui bono ;)

Offline Laurie

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 12:52:47 AM »
There is research being done on this its just that they can't publish anything on it yet!

 :o

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 12:52:47 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2011, 08:22:07 AM »
There is research being done on this its just that they can't publish anything on it yet!

 :o
I see. It's too much oil and coal to be burned first? LOL

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2011, 08:25:04 AM »
you know why... cui bono ;)
What do you mean? For whom this is good for (cui bono)?

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2011, 08:25:04 AM »
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Offline tak22

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 08:31:44 PM »
Hi Vidar,

You could try asking these guys as they are big on heat engine tech:

http://www.gdttek.com/tech_overview.php

tak

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 10:19:24 PM »
Maybe the following idea will come handy.

I want to harness energy from the air temperature. The problem with that is that it is required high temperature differences to make an efficient motor to run a generator. So what does a heat pump really do?
If my common sense is intact, to some degree, a COP greater than 1 WILL be able to deliver more energy than it takes to run it. Well, some people comment my ideas about selfrunning heat pumps by saying that the temperature difference is so small between your inhouse and outside temperature, so it will be littarally impossible to make a generator efficient enough to selfrun the heat pump.
Well, that is true when we speak of the ambient temperature in the relative big volume it is distributed in. However, the local temperature difference on the cold and hot side of a heat pump is MUCH greater.

If we talk about 3-4kW output just from the energy in the outside air, distributed on an area of less than 1 square meter (The area of the heatsink is ofcourse very high), the local temperature should therfor be quite high on one side, and quite low on the other side.

What I mean by this, is that the energy difference in the outside air versus inhouse air is amplified by focusing it on a small space - the heat pump itself. THIS amplified temperature difference will be able to run a generator at relatively high efficiency.

To explain a parallell which might be more understandable:
We have an AC powersource which is able to deliver 4kW of power. There is just one problem. The voltage is only 1V. Even if the powersource can deliver 4000 Ampére at 1V, the high current will cause great loss and very low efficiency in the electric circuit.
If we with a regular transformer transforms this energy from 1V@4000A to 1000V@4A we can litterally increase the efficiency a 1000 times. However, not more than 100%, going from 0.1%. This is just an example. The low current will cause less loss in the wires in the circuit. We can see this principle in high voltage power lines. 500kV and a few amps.

I believe the same transformation, or amplification of the voltage can be a parallell to the heat pump. It is increasing the temperature difference in exchange with a smaller space. Assume the volume of air outside is the electric current Ampére, and the temperature is voltage. Decreasing the space (Ampére), and increasing temperature (Voltage), will also increase the efficiency of transformation from heat energy to mechanical energy.

Does anyone follow the amplification and higher efficiency thing?

I haven't read ALL about heat pumps yet, but I have started with the link above - even if the words "COP = 4" will do. Thanks for the link btw.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 10:19:24 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2011, 11:03:20 PM »
What do you mean? For whom this is good for (cui bono)?

Vidar
do i really need to explain? seriously? ::) ok, who benefits from the public not being able to collect energy from thin air? is it you that benefits or is it the more to the benefit of whomever you are buying energy from?

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 12:12:58 AM »
do i really need to explain? seriously? ::) ok, who benefits from the public not being able to collect energy from thin air? is it you that benefits or is it the more to the benefit of whomever you are buying energy from?
To answer your question (If I got all the words right): It benefits myself and my wallet, the public and their wallets, and the environment - if that is what free energy really does. The best of all is that this should not be new technology to anyone - I can't be alone thinking of this technology? I'll bet my balls that this selfrunning heat pump are already running somewhere secret place, but not ready for the public yet - we have lots of oil to spend first...Lots of taxes to pay from waste from oil. The worlds business will not be the same without the oil. Not to mention how big business pollution is.

But ofcourse, in a much bigger scale, and after the oil, this kind of energy can be the new power plants (possibly), and sold as an environmental friendly energy solution with zero toxic waste.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 12:12:58 AM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 03:25:08 AM »
Low-Q, I am having a hard time seeing how it can work. I don't think there is enough of a temperature difference. The energy needed to keep a high enough difference would most likely cost more energy then what is made.

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 05:07:31 AM »
There is research being done on this its just that they can't publish anything on it yet!

 :o
There were a fair number patents issued for water desalination by air compression so strong, the water boiled like it was on top of Mt. Everest.  Sort of room temperature boiling, although whether the water "heated up" by being decompressed is unknown to me.

Steam from this process was used to turn power generating turbines and then cooled to distilled water.  Some processes were reasonably straightforward and other were complicated, but money was probably he deciding factor in inventing the original device, whatever that was. That's possibly a reason that more money isn't spent on such an expensive undertaking as to build a whole plant that may require about as much power as it generates.
 
People, unless they volunteer, usually make a very high priority to put food on the table.

--Lee

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 05:07:31 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Collecting energy from thin air
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 02:26:40 PM »
Low-Q, I am having a hard time seeing how it can work. I don't think there is enough of a temperature difference. The energy needed to keep a high enough difference would most likely cost more energy then what is made.
Imagine a regular electric oven. You want to heat the whole house with this single oven. What temperature do you need on 1m^2 surface to heat a 250m^3 of air in the house to 20 degrees C when it is 0 degrees outside? You use maybe 4kW of electricity to heat that oven - that is a HOT oven. Now, imagine this oven is replaced with a heat pump with COP 4. You now reduce electricity down to 1kW to maintain 4kW output. The remaining 3kW is supplied by the outside temperature - because that is how a heat pump work.

The temperature on the surface of the heatpump is now very high - ofcourse it is going to heat the whole house. Enough to run a "stirling engine" with acceptable power. One side of the motor is connected to the outside temperature (NOT to the cold side of the pump), and the other connected to the hot side of the pump. Now, the relative potential energy in the air outside will not change because the amount of air is "limitless". THAT is the key to the heat pump, and the very reason it is possible to have a COP greater than 1, and also the key to make a "selfrunner" if it is done right. It is NOT impossible. Moderate/expert engineering skills chould be able to do this properly. No problem.

We do NOT talk about energy from nothing - not over unity. That is pr date not possible.

 

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