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## Mechanical free energy devices => Regen-X generator by Thane Heins => Topic started by: Overunityguide on August 30, 2011, 10:59:41 PM

Title: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on August 30, 2011, 10:59:41 PM
Hi you all,

Please view my most recent video about the Negative Lenz / Delayed Lenz Effect Experiment.
It is actually a Replication of the Thane C Heins Regenerative Accelerating Generator:

My results are the same as Thane C Heins. In my opinion this is what we all are looking for.

With Kind Regards,

Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Low-Q on August 30, 2011, 11:41:21 PM
Hi you all,

Please view my most recent video about the Negative Lenz / Delayed Lenz Effect Experiment.
It is actually a Replication of the Thane C Heins Regenerative Accelerating Generator:

My results are the same as Thane C Heins. In my opinion this is what we all are looking for.

With Kind Regards,

Overunityguide
Higher frequency will change the phase between current and voltage. It also affect the power output of the coil. Loading the motor will probably change the phase between current and voltage, and therfor it appears to draw less energy when loaded. Watt in a AC motor is a product of U x I x cos(phase). If the phase between voltage and current increase when loaded, you get less Watt readings from the grid.

Vidar
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on August 31, 2011, 09:14:38 AM
Higher frequency will change the phase between current and voltage. It also affect the power output of the coil. Loading the motor will probably change the phase between current and voltage, and therfor it appears to draw less energy when loaded. Watt in a AC motor is a product of U x I x cos(phase). If the phase between voltage and current increase when loaded, you get less Watt readings from the grid.

Vidar

@Vidar, I am familiar with the U x I X cos(phase) Power calculation... I am an electronics engineer myself. So yes I know all about shifting phases. This is exactly why I have mentioned in my video that the value which is being displayed is the real Watts Power Value. So with the cos(phi) phase shift corrected.

So to be more specific, it doesn't appears to draw less energy, but it does this for sure. You can see the exact difference when I load it with my finger. When loading it with my finger the real power consumption goes up and the cos(phi) comes closer to 1. So after this I let it run idle again and then I connect my load, so that you can see that the real consumed power is going down after connecting the load.

What happens in this setup is that we use the parasitic capacitance of the generator coil, just like Thane C Heins explains in one of its videos.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: neptune on August 31, 2011, 04:37:53 PM
@Overunityguide . Your experiments are very interesting . What happens to the input watts and RPM when you replace the lamp load with a short circuit ? There is a good reason for asking this question . In a recent news item on Peswiki News , Thane Hiens talks about a motor for bicycles . The idea is like your experiment , but uses many coils , all short circuited . The idea is that once the motor is up to speed , it will run just from the delayed Lens effect . I think Konehead mentioned the same idea on the Muller Dynamo thread .
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Low-Q on August 31, 2011, 05:52:42 PM
@Overunityguide . Your experiments are very interesting . What happens to the input watts and RPM when you replace the lamp load with a short circuit ? There is a good reason for asking this question . In a recent news item on Peswiki News , Thane Hiens talks about a motor for bicycles . The idea is like your experiment , but uses many coils , all short circuited . The idea is that once the motor is up to speed , it will run just from the delayed Lens effect . I think Konehead mentioned the same idea on the Muller Dynamo thread .
Did he also disconnect the powersource and ran the motor exclusivlely on delayed Lenz effect?

Vidar
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: neptune on August 31, 2011, 06:31:52 PM
@Low-Q .That is exactly what he claims . However the Peswiki article is not clear as to whether he has actually achieved this . I suspect not , as he appears to looking for 6 or 7 thousand Dollars to "develop" the device . Why not look up the article on Peswiki ?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: mikestocks2006 on August 31, 2011, 06:34:44 PM
Hi you all,

Please view my most recent video about the Negative Lenz / Delayed Lenz Effect Experiment.
It is actually a Replication of the Thane C Heins Regenerative Accelerating Generator:

My results are the same as Thane C Heins. In my opinion this is what we all are looking for.

With Kind Regards,

Overunityguide

Hi Overunityguide,
What is the power input to the drive, for the same drive settings, but without the coil present?
Nice video.

Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on August 31, 2011, 08:15:16 PM
@Overunityguide . Your experiments are very interesting . What happens to the input watts and RPM when you replace the lamp load with a short circuit ? There is a good reason for asking this question . In a recent news item on Peswiki News , Thane Hiens talks about a motor for bicycles . The idea is like your experiment , but uses many coils , all short circuited . The idea is that once the motor is up to speed , it will run just from the delayed Lens effect . I think Konehead mentioned the same idea on the Muller Dynamo thread .

@neptune

Thank you, I have just checked what the power drop is when short circuiting it, and then it goes from 77 Watts back to 71 Watts. Further when doing this, you can here the motor run lighter...

But for now I am using a .37KW motor (370W) which is a bit overkill for this kind of setup

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on August 31, 2011, 08:26:40 PM
Quote
But for now I am using a .37KW motor (370W) which is a bit overkill for this kind of setup.
Hi, it might be just right for converting your motor to RotoVerter an then your input power should drop to just a few watts.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on August 31, 2011, 08:33:20 PM
Hi, it might be just right for converting your motor to RotoVerter an then your input power should drop to just a few watts.

Hi kEhYo77,

That is what I was thinking of in the first place, but I cannot do this in my setup, because my motor is rated at 1500 rpm / 50 Hz, and in this experiment I am feeding it with the 3 phase power at 100 Hz which is coming from my converter. But if you buy a 3000 rpm / 50 Hz rated normal induction motor, I expect that you can combine those two different approaches.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on August 31, 2011, 08:42:41 PM
@OverunityGuide
I got one of those 3000/3 phase/50 Hz waiting on my shelf for my setup by the way :D
I think it is just a matter of driving frequency. I plan to do my own inverter with a variable frequency sine wave to drive the motor.
This way I will be able to achieve the RPM threshold for different coils/cores.
Best of luck...

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: neptune on August 31, 2011, 09:14:42 PM
@Overunityguide . The logical next step would be to add a second shorted coil , and note the input power reduction .With more and more coils , the input power should become less , but I feel you will eventually come up against the law of diminishing returns .You could also experiment with the coils parameters , number of turns , type of core etc . I wish you success . My old legs are getting tired on my bike , and I dont have a spare 7000 dollars to give to Thane Heins .
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on August 31, 2011, 09:29:46 PM
Hi Overunityguide,
What is the power input to the drive, for the same drive settings, but without the coil present?
Nice video.

Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike

I have just tested it and it seems to be 66 Watts with the generator rotor removed, So when only running the plain motor.

And yes I know what you want to say... This is not Overunity...

Running 71 Watts Shorted, 75 Watts without a load, 73 with a load connected and 66 Watts when in plain motor mode...

But, that is not what I try to show here, I am only trying to show the proof of principle by now. As I have said earlier, there can be a lot improved in this kind setup.

The mechanical design of my generator for instance is one of poorest design which you can use... Further am I using a .37KW Motor right now, which is also a bit overkill.

Please keep remember it is only to show the effect.

Kind Regards,

Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: mikestocks2006 on August 31, 2011, 09:56:53 PM
Hi Mike

I have just tested it and it seems to be 66 Watts with the generator rotor removed, So when only running the plain motor.

And yes I know what you want to say... This is not Overunity...

Running 71 Watts Shorted, 75 Watts without a load, 73 with a load connected and 66 Watts when in plain motor mode...

But, that is not what I try to show here, I am only trying to show the proof of principle by now. As I have said earlier, there can be a lot improved in this kind setup.

The mechanical design of my generator for instance is one of poorest design which you can use... Further am I using a .37KW Motor right now, which is also a bit overkill.

Please keep remember it is only to show the effect.

Kind Regards,

Overunityguide
Hi Overunityguide,
Thanks for replying with the figures.
No problem at all that this is under unity. I was merely interested in the penalty % that the coil drag adds to the system by itself, for this particular setup.  In this case it appears to be about 13.6% added load, and from that there is a recovery of about 44% when fully shorted. So the fully shorted penalty is about 7.5% That may not be all due to the electromagnetic effects, but also there is increased aerodynamic frictional losses as the magnets try to â€œsqueezeâ€ through that air gap between magnets and tip of coil core.
Some tests with ferrite have shown between 3% to 20% penalty depending on speed. The speed up is a bit more elusive though.

Thanks again for taking the time to check the figures ,and post.
Mike
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: mikestocks2006 on August 31, 2011, 10:05:06 PM
Hi Overunityguide

To add on the above post.
It would be interesting to see what the pure EM losses are, by replacing that coil/core with a nonmagnetic non conductive form  -same shape/size - and test for added load needed at the same rpm.
Then comparing these losses to previous, the true added load â€œif anyâ€ !  can be calculated.

Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: mondrasek on August 31, 2011, 10:53:49 PM
I have just tested it and it seems to be 66 Watts with the generator rotor removed, So when only running the plain motor.

@Overunityguide, did you remover the generator ROTOR or the coil?

Thanks,

M.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on August 31, 2011, 11:11:52 PM
@Overunityguide, did you remover the generator ROTOR or the coil?

Thanks,

M.

@mondrasek

I have removed the generator rotor, so the shaft only was turning.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: sinergicus on August 31, 2011, 11:44:39 PM
If  the magnets on the rotor will  have,all,the same poles up ,will be the accelerating effect present also?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Mike Sliver on September 01, 2011, 05:31:22 AM
Hello,
I am a lurker here,rarely comment. Now you mentioned shorting the coils. And I am thinking  what someone else has done with a ubolt and two coils and connects the coils to a battery and the expected electromagnetic effect of it being able to pickup a metal bars is evident, but when he disconnects the electric source the coils stay energized and are still able to pickup a steel bar after being disconnected from the energy source. See Ed Leedskalnin Magnetic current pt2  on you tube.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3z1sftowg
I have seen others replicate this and Iam wondering if shorting the coils has a similar effect of storing energy. Now if this has been mentioned before. excuse me. Mike Sliver
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 01, 2011, 11:23:10 AM
Hello,
I am a lurker here,rarely comment. Now you mentioned shorting the coils. And I am thinking  what someone else has done with a ubolt and two coils and connects the coils to a battery and the expected electromagnetic effect of it being able to pickup a metal bars is evident, but when he disconnects the electric source the coils stay energized and are still able to pickup a steel bar after being disconnected from the energy source. See Ed Leedskalnin Magnetic current pt2  on you tube.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3z1sftowg
I have seen others replicate this and Iam wondering if shorting the coils has a similar effect of storing energy. Now if this has been mentioned before. excuse me. Mike Sliver

Hi Mike

There is a difference between magnetic soft and magnetic hard iron coil cores. I am using a normal bolt as a core. So I don't think that what you say is taking place in this setup, what I think that takes place in my setup is the so called delayed Lenz / negative Lenz effect.

For the Theoretical Explanation Concerning this Effect Please look at the Following Link:

Which is provided by Thane C Heins

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: mondrasek on September 01, 2011, 04:31:05 PM
I have removed the generator rotor, so the shaft only was turning.

@Overunityguide, when you removed the generator rotor, you also removed all the air drag that the rotor, and especially the projecting magnets and retaining screws, creates.  So this would result in decreased power consumption.  So I don't think you can compare that 66 watt reading to any of the others.

Did you test WITH the rotor, but WITHOUT the coil?

Thanks,

M.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 01, 2011, 07:55:01 PM
@Overunityguide, when you removed the generator rotor, you also removed all the air drag that the rotor, and especially the projecting magnets and retaining screws, creates.  So this would result in decreased power consumption.  So I don't think you can compare that 66 watt reading to any of the others.

Did you test WITH the rotor, but WITHOUT the coil?

Thanks,

M.

@mondrasek,

I have just tried it and with the rotor, without the coil it runs at about 68 / 69 Watts idle on 3000 rpm

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Confirming the Negative Lenz Effect:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 02, 2011, 09:41:20 PM
After A couple of people asked for it digitally, here is my schematic

Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Thane C Heins Replication, Confirming the Negative Lenz Effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzxc3Ai4T3A
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: minde4000 on September 03, 2011, 06:56:50 AM
After A couple of people asked for it digitally, here is my schematic

Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Thane C Heins Replication, Confirming the Negative Lenz Effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzxc3Ai4T3A

I have this kind of setup with high impedance single wire coil and bifilar coil and up to 3600 rpm driver with 18 NS magnets. Nothing special... You could follow thread on TC Heins device replication attempt. Me and at  least a couple of other replicators didnt get much. Accelerations "effect" is also simply explainable trick.  8)

Minde
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 03, 2011, 07:08:09 PM
@Overunityguide,

Can I ask you for a calibration measurement?
What is the actual power consumed when the whole coil setup is removed?

I am asking this because if the coil units contributes to let say 5 W of extra losses (e.g. eddy current losses in the core of the HV coil) and you notice a power drop of 2 W when connecting the load, you will still end up with 3 W of losses and this will be a very misleading experiment.

Teslaalset,
Fellow Dutch forum member

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 04, 2011, 11:05:45 PM
Can I ask you for a calibration measurement?
What is the actual power consumed when the whole coil setup is removed?

@teslaalset,

And before calling it a very misleading experiment...
Please keep in mind: My video is only showing 'proof of principle'

Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 04, 2011, 11:20:03 PM
I have done a second Video about the:

Delayed Lenz / Negative Lenz Effect for now:

In which I show and clarify how you can get the regenerative acceleration effect when you Short your Generator Coil or when you try to Load your Generator Coil

So if you have any time left, here you can find it:

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 04, 2011, 11:33:21 PM
And before calling it a very misleading experiment...
Please keep in mind: My video is only showing 'proof of principle'

I am not suggesting you are possibly misleading, but when not correctly interpreted, your (and Thane's) setup could suggest this way OU is possible, although you're not speaking this out loud.

Shorting coils has been discussed here and at other fora quite often and some members think it's the holy grail to OU.
You're experiment + data shows it's not as simple as that.

I missed the earlier post on the data without coil, I got it now.
The numbers are even worse than I thought.
9 W loss because of the coil setup, max 2 W gain when loaded with LEDS.

Thanks for sharing this.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on September 05, 2011, 07:53:09 AM

I missed the earlier post on the data without coil, I got it now.
The numbers are even worse than I thought.
9 W loss because of the coil setup, max 2 W gain when loaded with LEDS.

One has to remember that when full setup of coils would be implemented the drag will be much less and power required
to drive the rotor as well. All that he has to do is to place ODD number of those HV coils around the EVEN number of magnets rotor...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Poit on September 05, 2011, 08:37:41 AM
75watts to run the generator

the led's probably consume 2 watts...

ok so its negative lenz effect, so it now consumes 72 watts or so.... but is the effect the same when you put a larger load on it? what happens if you put something that requires say 80watts? is it going to be 70watts in and 80watts out?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 05, 2011, 09:06:42 AM
75watts to run the generator

the led's probably consume 2 watts...

ok so its negative lenz effect, so it now consumes 72 watts or so.... but is the effect the same when you put a larger load on it? what happens if you put something that requires say 80watts? is it going to be 70watts in and 80watts out?

Ok, there we go again... Please read the previous posts! I have mentioned it for about twenty times by now... it is showing only proof of principle...

In one of my previous posts I also describe that the motor which I am using right now is a bit overkill. Actually my motor is rated at maximum 370 Watts. (so much too powerfull for this setup) And will consume much power only to run idle.

In which I describe the differences between shorting and loading the generator coil.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 05, 2011, 09:53:09 AM
One has to remember that when full setup of coils would be implemented the drag will be much less and power required
to drive the rotor as well. All that he has to do is to place ODD number of those HV coils around the EVEN number of magnets rotor...

You're missing the point I was trying to make here:
No coils present : power consumption 66Watts
One coil present, no load: power consumption 75 Watt.
So, the presents of each coil will add 9 Watts of extra losses without delivering extra output.
If you then load one coil with e.g. a LED lamp, like in this experiment, there is a approx. 2 Watt reduction of the 9 Watts.
So, overall, each coil, while delivering output, still has a 7 Watt extra loss.
Adding N extra coils will add 7 x N Watt extra loss.

The whole idea of obtaining OU with similar setups will only fly if the additional lossed caused by the generator coils will be less than the load they deliver.

In the setup of Overunityguide the coil seems to have a solid core. Replacing this by e.g. isolated rods with a small diameter will help a lot in getting the eddy currents reduced.
But, since in this example a coil with many windings is used, there will always be rather large ohmic losses in the generator coil as well. In this demo : R =384.5 Ohm !
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Poit on September 05, 2011, 09:54:59 AM
You're missing the point I was trying to make here:
No coils present : power consumption 66Watts
One coil present, no load: power consumption 75 Watt.
So, the presents of each coil will add 9 Watts of extra losses without delivering extra output.
If you then load one coil with e.g. a LED lamp, like in this experiment, there is a approx. 2 Watt reduction of the 9 Watts.
So, overall, each coil, while delivering output, still has a 7 Watt extra loss.
Adding N extra coils will add 7 x N Watt extra loss.

Makes sense :)

@Overunityguide sorry mate, i read your posts. Keep up the good work
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 05, 2011, 10:08:08 AM
You're missing the point I was trying to make here:
No coils present : power consumption 66Watts
One coil present, no load: power consumption 75 Watt.
So, the presents of each coil will add 9 Watts of extra losses without delivering extra output.
If you then load one coil with e.g. a LED lamp, like in this experiment, there is a approx. 2 Watt reduction of the 9 Watts.
So, overall, each coil, while delivering output, still has a 7 Watt extra loss.
Adding N extra coils will add 7 x N Watt extra loss.

@teslaalset,

I think that you still haven't read all previous posts. I am saying this because, also in one of my other previous posts, I am telling everyone that my generator setup for now is one of the most Inefficient and that there can be a lot improved in this setup.

First, you can think of replacing my iron bolt core with ferrites. Secondly designing a more like Thane C Heins Mechenical Generator Coil Dual Rotor setup and so on.

Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on September 05, 2011, 10:22:25 AM
@teslaalset

I know what You are getting at with those calculation but adding a full set of coils will reduce total amount of drag significantly.
And then you can not do simple mutliplication of the friction/drag like that for all the coils because balancing magnetic forces does the trick (Muller).
On a side note here, I think that You know that this setup can be converted to RotoVerter resonant motor and then the same 3000 RPM
can be achieved using only few Watts using tuned caps.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 05, 2011, 11:57:25 AM

No, I don't. It's good to have this discussion.
Always difficult to express things, without causing wrong emotions ;)
I may leave the wrong impression myself, but I mean to dig out the issues here as an open discussion, in a constructive way.

I think that you still haven't read all previous posts. I am saying this because, also in one of my other previous posts, I am telling everyone that my generator setup for now is one of the most Inefficient and that there can be a lot improved in this setup.

Point taken.

First, you can think of replacing my iron bolt core with ferrites. Secondly designing a more like Thane C Heins Mechenical Generator Coil Dual Rotor setup and so on.

In parallel to your response, I added similar suggestions in my previous post.
To be honest, I am doing a lot of Ansys Maxwell simulations on this topic in the background to find most efficient solutions for this.
Indeed, one of the effeciency improvements is better core material.
The other is to get red of the coil resistance. We can discuss how....

The essence is that current lag is maximized.
The fundamental formula in setups like this is explained very nicely in this MIT video, starting from around time = 40:03:

Leaving out any capacity effects of winding(s) it boils down to :

Tangens(phi) = (omega x inductance) / Resistance
(where phi is the delay )

This formula defines the current delay to the induced flux.
To maximize the delay:
- Increase omega (= 2 x pi x freq)
- Increase inductance
- Decrease resistance

Increase of omega is simple. Overunityguide showed the clear effects in his demos

Increasing inductance is not so simple. If magnets approach coil cores, the cores in general tend to saturate, causing a drop in inductance.
There are several ways to avoid saturation of core materials at TDC, e.g. to put bias magnets at the  other end of the cores of the coils. But.... this will saturate the cores when rotor magnets are not at TDC, leaving some other disadvantages.

Decrease of resistance is also complicated: using thicker wire is one solution, reducing windings another.
Thane Heins is using HV coils with many windings. This is not the only possible solution. It all depends on the formula above.
The MIT demo shows that even a solid ring has prominent current lag.

And then there is the possibility to play with capacity.
This allows for a whole arrangement of extra options.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 05, 2011, 12:36:01 PM
I know what You are getting at with those calculation but adding a full set of coils will reduce total amount of drag significantly.

Only after these coils have introduced much greater drag themselves if they have large losses, which occur in this demo. I even doubt coils can be made that effecient they will leave a surplus of torque when loaded.

And then you can not do simple mutliplication of the friction/drag like that for all the coils because balancing magnetic forces does the trick (Muller).
On a side note here, I think that You know that this setup can be converted to RotoVerter resonant motor and then the same 3000 RPM
can be achieved using only few Watts using tuned caps.

Adding capacitors to obtain resonance, will introduce zero current lag (exactly zero!!).
This is a complete different ball game.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on September 05, 2011, 01:43:27 PM
Very much on topic
ToranaRod Feels He has Seen OU [A strange Runaway ,Burn stuff up "EFFECT"] ,And wants all to know
Here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-51.html#post155261

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on September 05, 2011, 02:14:20 PM
Quote
I ment adding capacitors to turn motor/prime mover  windings to LC tank for resonant driving for the rotor.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 05, 2011, 03:02:47 PM
I ment adding capacitors to turn motor/prime mover  windings to LC tank for resonant driving for the rotor.

Ah, ok, I was mixing this up.

Motor issues maybe a bit offtopic here, but from what I understand of motors, the mechanical load causes a current phase lag that is changing when the mechanical load is changing.
This will result in 'lower impedance load' as seen by the power source.

This means a compensation capacitor value is dependant on the mechanical load.
Also in the case of a motor, the current lag will be compensated to zero to the flux phase when C is tuned to LC resonance.
From what I understand, zero current lag to the flux will end up in zero torque, so useless.

Maybe you have better references than I do, but I haven't seen any spectacular results with rotovertors for the last 5 years.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on September 05, 2011, 03:17:26 PM
I even doubt coils can be made that effecient they will leave a surplus of torque when loaded.
Toranarod on 08-03-2011 got more RPM with shorted coil than without the coil at all:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-35.html#post149807
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on September 05, 2011, 03:32:21 PM
This means a compensation capacitor value is dependant on the mechanical load.

Yes, it is, so the RV capacitor should be selected after finding optimum speed for the effect to manifest and then at this speed we short ALL
the generator coils or put them on a specific, constant value load and then, under this condition we try to select the right compensation capacitor for the RV motor.
This setup should be much more efficient then.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 05, 2011, 03:33:39 PM
Toranarod on 08-03-2011 got more RPM with shorted coil than without the coil at all:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-35.html#post149807

If that is true and it can be replicated he is on the right track.

I wasn't aware.
I will study this.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on September 05, 2011, 06:36:25 PM
I'll try to replicate it too. I already have DC motor and 10mm x 10mm neo magnets. For core I'll use mumetal from hard drives.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 05, 2011, 08:00:13 PM
If that is true and it can be replicated he is on the right track.

Ok, I had a look at Toranarod's data.
Yes, indeed he seems to have higher RPM with a generator coil, compared to the situation without generator coil.
However there is also a motor coil present.
Unfortunately he did not monitor (or post) the data on the motor coil.
The used power of the motor coil is also relevant for solid evaluation.
So, incomplete data unfortunately. Still no proof of concept.

For some reason I can't post messages on EF although I have a valid account.
Can somebody post a question to Toranarod to provide also the input power of the motor coil, to complete his table?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: toranarod on September 05, 2011, 10:45:10 PM
Ok, I had a look at Toranarod's data.
Yes, indeed he seems to have higher RPM with a generator coil, compared to the situation without generator coil.
However there is also a motor coil present.
Unfortunately he did not monitor (or post) the data on the motor coil.
The used power of the motor coil is also relevant for solid evaluation.
So, incomplete data unfortunately. Still no proof of concept.

For some reason I can't post messages on EF although I have a valid account.
Can somebody post a question to Toranarod to provide also the input power of the motor coil, to complete his table?

Hello

I am using a separate drive motor. It became very obvious Romero was right about a few things.
One point he made was don't worry about the drive just use a good motor.

the work on the acceleration of the generator coils is where the research is up to at the momment.

the out runner in the photo can provide 2000 RPM at 300 Mil Amps  or 8200 RPM at 3.5 amps its very versatile. I recommend giving it a try it has helped me a lot with this work
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 05, 2011, 10:49:22 PM
Hi You All,

Today one YouTube User has asked me to Replace my LED Load with a normal Resistive Incandescent Light Bulb. So this is what I have done.

Negative Lenz / Delayed Lenz Effect with an Incandescent Light Bulb as a Load

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 06, 2011, 12:26:23 AM
Hello

I am using a separate drive motor. It became very obvious Romero was right about a few things.
One point he made was don't worry about the drive just use a good motor.

the work on the acceleration of the generator coils is where the research is up to at the momment.

the out runner in the photo can provide 2000 RPM at 300 Mil Amps  or 8200 RPM at 3.5 amps its very versatile. I recommend giving it a try it has helped me a lot with this work

Hi toranarod,

Thanks for stopping by.

Can you summarize you findings once more in this thread so we all understand them?
I noticed you have the generator coils fixed, so they probably are difficult to remove.

Most convincing experiment would be as follows:
1) remove (physically) all generator coils and measure the motor power consumption at a given RPM
2) mount the generator coils and drive the rotor such that same RPM is obtained as in 1) with no load to the generator coils (nothing connected)
3) measure the motor power consumed in 2)
4) short all generator coils and measure motor power consumption and RPM.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: toranarod on September 06, 2011, 12:57:04 AM
Hi toranarod,

Thanks for stopping by.

Can you summarize you findings once more in this thread so we all understand them?
I noticed you have the generator coils fixed, so they probably are difficult to remove.

Most convincing experiment would be as follows:
1) remove (physically) all generator coils and measure the motor power consumption at a given RPM
2) mount the generator coils and drive the rotor such that same RPM is obtained as in 1) with no load to the generator coils (nothing connected)
3) measure the motor power consumed in 2)
4) short all generator coils and measure motor power consumption and RPM.

i will post a photo of the current set up
by the end of my day i will have the data we are looking for.
today's coil type is mild steal core, solid. 280 turns 4.7 mH wire 18awg. 1.1mm. the core extends 15mm past the coil.  and is 1.5 mm gap.
RPM will be 2500 to 3000.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: toranarod on September 06, 2011, 05:03:47 AM
Hello

I am using a separate drive motor. It became very obvious Romero was right about a few things.
One point he made was don't worry about the drive just use a good motor.

the work on the acceleration of the generator coils is where the research is up to at the momment.

the out runner in the photo can provide 2000 RPM at 300 Mil Amps  or 8200 RPM at 3.5 amps its very versatile. I recommend giving it a try it has helped me a lot with this work

Here is some data on short circuits.   There is no electronics of any kind.
Just dead short, open circuit or no coil.  Itâ€™s a basic comparison of core materials using the same coil.  All core dimensions are the same only change is material structure.

I thought this was rather interesting.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 06, 2011, 09:53:16 AM

Here is some data on short circuits.   There is no electronics of any kind.
Just dead short, open circuit or no coil.  Itâ€™s a basic comparison of core materials using the same coil.  All core dimensions are the same only change is material structure.

I thought this was rather interesting.

Hi toranarod,

Thanks very much for the quick data update.

If I understand your data correctly, you have replacable core types?
And the rotor motor is connected to a fixed voltage supply?

I made a quick analysis with excel.
Some observations:
RPM behaviour:
- No coil shows very nicely same results, something you would expect of course
- Open coil shows which core has most losses: solid iron (Fe) core, also, no supprise
- Shorted coil shows interesting RPM increase values for the solid iron (Fe) core from open to shorted coil.

Input current behaviour:
- Solid iron seems to influence the mechanical drag the most

Some missing info for further conclusions:
In particular the Mu metal cores raises some new questions, since it's RPM seems almost untouched and roughly independent from generator coil status.
It would help a lot in getting some more insights when we would know the shorted generator coil current and the coil resistance. This would give us a ballpark figure in what electrical output energy is delivered when generator coil is shorted. Do you have access to a current probe?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: toranarod on September 06, 2011, 01:30:29 PM
Hi toranarod,

Thanks very much for the quick data update.

If I understand your data correctly, you have replacable core types?
And the rotor motor is connected to a fixed voltage supply?

I made a quick analysis with excel.
Some observations:
RPM behaviour:
- No coil shows very nicely same results, something you would expect of course
- Open coil shows which core has most losses: solid iron (Fe) core, also, no supprise
- Shorted coil shows interesting RPM increase values for the solid iron (Fe) core from open to shorted coil.

Input current behaviour:
- Solid iron seems to influence the mechanical drag the most

Some missing info for further conclusions:
In particular the Mu metal cores raises some new questions, since it's RPM seems almost untouched and roughly independent from generator coil status.
It would help a lot in getting some more insights when we would know the shorted generator coil current and the coil resistance. This would give us a ballpark figure in what electrical output energy is delivered when generator coil is shorted. Do you have access to a current probe?

great work thank you for the data
I will have some important figures come up in the next few days.
I will post them here if you would do another excel analysis.
thanks for this
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 06, 2011, 06:22:07 PM
Hello Overunityguide and everyone,

I have had my eye on your topic for a few days now and I find you're doing an excellent job.

It coincides that I have lately been thinking of applying what I personally learned while working with Thane Heins at the Ottawa University a few years back. I'm now considering of re-testing with new core material and biasing magnets.

I'm mostly thinking of applying this. A little over a year ago a researcher posted a
and also shared his findings at this

What he found was that a coil wound on a Finemet toroid (nanocrystaline) core would increase in Inductance as much as 3 time when approached to a magnet (up to a certain point)

I do have 2 of theses Finemet toroids and will soon be confirming his findings.

The idea here (if this information is correct) would be to use Finemet as core material on Thane's delayed Lenz coil technique. This would give a huge advantage as we could achieve higher than expected Inductance using minimal wire lengths since High Inductance is the Key factor to Thane's coil effect. The benefit to use less wire is cost but more important is that Thane later found reducing coil resistance boosted the coil current output.

I will soon post my findings.

Great work there toranarod! I have also been following your research and progress for some time.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: rogla on September 06, 2011, 06:40:33 PM

The essence is that current lag is maximized.
The fundamental formula in setups like this is explained very nicely in this MIT video, starting from around time = 40:03:

Leaving out any capacity effects of winding(s) it boils down to :

Tangens(phi) = (omega x inductance) / Resistance
(where phi is the delay )

This formula defines the current delay to the induced flux.
To maximize the delay:
- Increase omega (= 2 x pi x freq)
- Increase inductance
- Decrease resistance

Increase of omega is simple. Overunityguide showed the clear effects in his demos

Increasing inductance is not so simple. If magnets approach coil cores, the cores in general tend to saturate, causing a drop in inductance.
There are several ways to avoid saturation of core materials at TDC, e.g. to put bias magnets at the  other end of the cores of the coils. But.... this will saturate the cores when rotor magnets are not at TDC, leaving some other disadvantages.

Decrease of resistance is also complicated: using thicker wire is one solution, reducing windings another.
Thane Heins is using HV coils with many windings. This is not the only possible solution. It all depends on the formula above.
The MIT demo shows that even a solid ring has prominent current lag.

And then there is the possibility to play with capacity.
This allows for a whole arrangement of extra options.

Following is my conclusions of that MIT lecture.

The teacher states very clearly that the phase shift is purely a geometrically property.
If you inset the formula for the wire resistance etc in the solenoid phase shift formula, you will see that the phase shift depends only on the solenoid (coil) diameter, wire resistivity and rotational speed (RPM, Hz).
I did this substitution in a Maple workbook where I'm also can plot the phase shift as a function of RPM.
(Maximum phase shift is +-90 deg with changed sign at the resonance frequency.)

We can change the resistivity by changing wire material, but copper has a very good price/performance value.

So, If we stick with copper, the only parameters that causes changes in the phase shift is:
- the solenoid diameter  (large diamter = large phase shift)
- rotational speed (high = large phase shift)

All other parameters falls out, the phase shift does NOT depend on:
- wire diameter
- wire length
- solenoid length
- number of wire turns

So my conclusion is that there is an operational "speed window" where the effect kicks in and that the rotational speed for this window is lower for solenoids with larger diameter.

The effect (phase shift) does not depend on the resistance.
The level of output (voltage/current) is dependent on the resistance, so in the end we have to think about the resistance. However, it should work with boot high voltage and high current coils.

When we have chosen an operational speed and solenoid diameter to get a large phase shift, we select the wire diameter, wire length, solenoid length etc so the wire and electronics can handle the output.

I'm working with the idea of a coil with as low parasitic capacitance as possible and a separate capacitance bank that is switched in/out to have total 180 deg phase shift. Therefore (low cap), my aircore coils is very flat, 90 mm Dy, 30 mm DI and 5 mm thick. I also have made coils with magnetit/epoxy cores for test. I switch the coils with an Arduino computer, using a hall sensor. I can send all running data in real time to my PC over ethernet (tcp). I'm currently writing an application for the PC that will display all relevant data, store them in a database or file. It will also enable me to setup test sequences with a lot of diffrent values in the configuration (pulse width, length, start, rotational speed).
I have not started to sample data yet.

Anyway, this is what I have been thinking of and working with for a while.
I was originally planning to replicate the Romero UK Muller device, but in the end I decide to build a test rig where I can investigate and document a lot of diffrent properties for some coils. Replicating/building a working machine has to wait until all experiments is done and I fully understand this. Fun to learn!

/Rogla

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: neptune on September 06, 2011, 06:56:27 PM
@Rogla .Yours is the kind of dedicated systematic approach that is so desperately needed . If the "Muller" effect is real , yours is the kind of research that will crack it in the end . Even if OU is not possible using these ideas , as a minimum it can lead to generators having a very high efficiency .This could lead to small wind turbines that are more cost effective . Thanks in advance for sharing your data . As an aside , have a look at the adams motor , where the relationship between magnet size and coil diameter is stressed .
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 06, 2011, 08:34:08 PM
I'm working with the idea of a coil with as low parasitic capacitance as possible and a separate capacitance bank that is switched in/out to have total 180 deg phase shift.

I have to disappoint you rogla, 180 degrees will not happen, max. current lag is near 90 degrees, no capacity applied.
Adding a capacitor will reduce the current lag to zero degrees max.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: rogla on September 06, 2011, 08:50:03 PM
@teslaalset

Ok, that's true, 180 deg absolute phase shift will not happen, it was not that I tried to say. What I tried to say was switching between -90 deg and +90 deg by switching a capacitor bank with larger value of impedance compared to the coil at the operational speed and with correct timing. The relative change in phase shift should be near 180 deg (from -90 to +90), not the absolute value. I rather would like to express me in Swedish, sorry for that bad writing....
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: rogla on September 06, 2011, 09:04:45 PM
Adding a capacitor will reduce the current lag to zero degrees max.

For a solenoid like in the MIT lecture, I disagree strongly. The only time there is zero degree phase shift (except pure resistance) is a resonance, i.e when the absolute value of the impedance of the coil and capacitor i equal. This is very basic.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: mikestocks2006 on September 06, 2011, 09:28:37 PM
The question however is, how much of a phase angle is enough?
30 deg? 45? 60? 85? More?

If we use some already known numbers for e.g. the 8 magnet romeroUK setup:
RPM= 1300
L =1.2mH
R=2Ohms
The figures  are approximate and inductance under dynamic conditions may also fluctuate some.
Using the above and solving for phase angle
Tan(phi)=omega * L/R
couple more on different rpm, rest are the same.
at
and

Again, what should be the minimum or prefered range?

Thanks for the posts folks.
Mike
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 06, 2011, 09:30:59 PM
For a solenoid like in the MIT lecture, I disagree strongly. The only time there is zero degree phase shift (except pure resistance) is a resonance, i.e when the absolute value of the impedance of the coil and capacitor i equal. This is very basic.

I am performing 3D Maxwell simulations right now to get the 3 stages you mentioned.
As soon as I have them finalized I will post them here, so we can discuss.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: rogla on September 06, 2011, 09:48:17 PM
I am performing a 3D Maxwell simulations right now to get the 3 stages you mentioned.
As soon as I have them finalized I will post them here, so we can discuss.

Aha, ok, I did a simple test with two of my coils and my oscilloscope. A generator coil that generates volage behaves diffrent from a solenoid! Because the voltage is in the other direction in a generator, the resulting current lags the voltage in the cirquite. Same direction as for the capacitor. I think this is what you mean. Thanks, teslaalset, I wasn't aware. I stillbe live in the basic idea, diffrent timing. Still fun to learn!

PS. Now I'm thinking of switching a transformer to be able to get phase shift in the other direction. I think I have to finish my evaluation platform and do all my planned tests before I get involved in discussions like this and get new ideas. DS.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 06, 2011, 10:22:12 PM
Aha, ok, I did a simple test with two of my coils and my oscilloscope. A generator coil that generates volage behaves diffrent from a solenoid! Because the voltage is in the other direction in a generator, the resulting current lags the voltage in the cirquite. Same direction as for the capacitor. I think this is what you mean. Thanks, teslaalset, I wasn't aware. I stillbe live in the basic idea, diffrent timing. Still fun to learn!

You got the hang of it.
Current through the coil shapes the total flux.
Current through the capacitor does not create flux.

My sims take forever, so probably they will not be finished today, but I will post them later on.
It's still educating stuff, also for other members that still want to know.

I can already forecast that anyone that can get the current leading to the flux in a coil of such a device will have a running ZPE device.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 06, 2011, 10:47:41 PM
@toranarod,

Really nice work, very impressive. I Like your setup especially with the brushless engine outer runner.

Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: rogla on September 07, 2011, 12:34:34 AM
@teslaalset
I appreciate that you are willing to help. I really want to understand everyting I get intrested in in detail.

I think we booth was thinking of a capacitor bank in series with a coil.
In that case I understand that the phase shift can be max 90 deg and min 0 deg with a large capacitor bank (voltage in the generator coil is 180 deg compared to a solenoid).

But what if the capacitor is in parallel with the coil?
In this case, the voltage in the coil is clamped to the voltage in the capacitor.
If the impedance in the coil and capacitor is equal, the resulting phase shift is 0.
If the impedance of the capacitor is much larger than the coil, the current is 90 deg before voltage.
Any opinion on this?

In my mind, it is some basic configurations that produce phase shift (of current and thus flux in coil). I think it is possible to combine two of them or possibly only use one of them in combination with disconnet/short the coil for a part of the wave, by switching.  This is my goal, to really understand how diffrent setups impacts the phase shift in the generator coil.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: mariuscivic on September 08, 2011, 12:07:44 AM
Hi!
Is this the delayed lenz?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: toranarod on September 08, 2011, 01:36:36 AM
@teslaalset
I appreciate that you are willing to help. I really want to understand everyting I get intrested in in detail.

I think we booth was thinking of a capacitor bank in series with a coil.
In that case I understand that the phase shift can be max 90 deg and min 0 deg with a large capacitor bank (voltage in the generator coil is 180 deg compared to a solenoid).

But what if the capacitor is in parallel with the coil?
In this case, the voltage in the coil is clamped to the voltage in the capacitor.
If the impedance in the coil and capacitor is equal, the resulting phase shift is 0.
If the impedance of the capacitor is much larger than the coil, the current is 90 deg before voltage.
Any opinion on this?

In my mind, it is some basic configurations that produce phase shift (of current and thus flux in coil). I think it is possible to combine two of them or possibly only use one of them in combination with disconnet/short the coil for a part of the wave, by switching.  This is my goal, to really understand how diffrent setups impacts the phase shift in the generator coil.

My opinion is 0 may be the best you can hope for . this is why I think a dead short works 0 volts current at Max. If Only you could make a coil behave like a capacitor wouldn't that be great. I have tried many combinations of capacitors at frequencies. I never seen it affect Lenz drag.
good work. please keep on going if you find something I would love to know.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 08, 2011, 05:26:45 AM
Hello Overunityguide and everyone,

I have had my eye on your topic for a few days now and I find you're doing an excellent job.

It coincides that I have lately been thinking of applying what I personally learned while working with Thane Heins at the Ottawa University a few years back. I'm now considering of re-testing with new core material and biasing magnets.

I'm mostly thinking of applying this. A little over a year ago a researcher posted a
and also shared his findings at this

What he found was that a coil wound on a Finemet toroid (nanocrystaline) core would increase in Inductance as much as 3 time when approached to a magnet (up to a certain point)

I do have 2 of theses Finemet toroids and will soon be confirming his findings.

The idea here (if this information is correct) would be to use Finemet as core material on Thane's delayed Lenz coil technique. This would give a huge advantage as we could achieve higher than expected Inductance using minimal wire lengths since High Inductance is the Key factor to Thane's coil effect. The benefit to use less wire is cost but more important is that Thane later found reducing coil resistance boosted the coil current output.

I will soon post my findings.

Great work there toranarod! I have also been following your research and progress for some time.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Hi everyone,

for anyone interested, I started a topic with a video demo on testing what I have posted above.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 08, 2011, 07:06:37 AM
Double post

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 08, 2011, 09:31:09 PM
Ok, a bit late, but I've got some simulations examples.
I'll start with some basics, I need a bit more time to work on the RLC ciruit sims.

Three attachements:
1) basic setup: one coil, no solid core, just air, rotor with 8 disc magnets all facing North upwards. RPM = 3750, meaning that with 8 rotor magnets freq=500 Hz, T=2ms.
2) flux and current at 100 ohm load. 4, 6 and 8 ms is at TDC (Top Dead Center, magnet center exactly at coil center)
3) flux and current at 1 ohm load, also here 4, 6 and 8 ms at TDC

You'll notice that the 100 ohm version has an almost symmetrical value around TDC.
This means that forces on the rotor will allmost ballance out (sum of the pull moments is equal to the sum of the push moments), but the forces are also small due to the limited amplitude in current caused by the 100 ohm.

For the 1 ohm sorted coil situation is quite different, showing the phase shift of the current.
The delay of the current also causes the total flux to be delayed (Total flux= magnet flux + coil flux)
Here you can notice that the peak of the current is before TDC, causing some extra drag to the rotor), since the amplitude of the current is significantly higher.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Kator01 on September 09, 2011, 02:41:41 AM
Folks,

post 1554 by kajunkreations conains a link which leads to a french forum infecting you computer with a trojan- Please see attached pic. Can someone please post this info there as I am not a member in the energeticforum.com

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 10, 2011, 07:53:37 PM
Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 11, 2011, 04:20:27 AM
Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Great video and explanation.

So do you think if a generator had a large diameter rotor with 200 magnet we would be able to get the delayed flyback with low Impedance low Resistance generator coils?
Or do you think it is better to go high RPM and less magnets?

Thanks for doing these experiments and sharing.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Low-Q on September 11, 2011, 11:14:25 AM
Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Did you measure the L in the coils, or calculated it from the windings and dimensions?

I have problems with measuring a coil if the internal resistance is too high. The meter is measuring the impedance at normally 1kHz. If the internal resistance is high, it will affect the L-readings to make me believe L is higher than it actually is. This will also affect the calculations of "Tau" the time constant you are refering to in the video.

Just thoughts that might make a difference.

EDIT: If you know at which frequency the inductance is measured at, and you know the internal resistence, you might be able to recalculate the "actual" inductance. I will try that when I get back to work - just to see if my assumptions are correct.

Vidar
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 11, 2011, 12:09:59 PM
Great video and explanation.

So do you think if a generator had a large diameter rotor with 200 magnet we would be able to get the delayed flyback with low Impedance low Resistance generator coils?
Or do you think it is better to go high RPM and less magnets?

Thanks for doing these experiments and sharing.

Luc

@Luc,

Thank you very much.

Personally I think that there can be many different setups in where we can expect the Delayed Lenz Effect to see.
- Very high RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to Lower Inductance
- Medium RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to High Inductance
- Medium to Normal RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/High Induction

But for now I think that the last option is the most practicable to experiment with. But what is important, is that you can calculate the proper Delay by the simple formula: L/R and that you include your Load R within it.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 11, 2011, 09:59:25 PM
@Luc,

Thank you very much.

Personally I think that there can be many different setups in where we can expect the Delayed Lenz Effect to see.
- Very high RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to Lower Inductance
- Medium RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to High Inductance
- Medium to Normal RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/High Induction

But for now I think that the last option is the most practicable to experiment with. But what is important, is that you can calculate the proper Delay by the simple formula: L/R and that you include your Load R within it.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect:

Hi Overunityguide,

I believe we would get much better current output if using low Inductance coil as the Resistance is much lower.

As far as I can remember Thane's best results were when he had the most rotor magnets he could fit on his rotor, making his own cores 1/2" x 1/2" (square) using new silicon steel transformer laminations so he would have no short between laminations (very important) and the coil would be wound to minimal Inductance (just enough to get acceleration under load at correct RPM).

Minimal Inductance (wire length) = minimal Resistance = most current output
Non shorting steel laminations = less Eddy currents = less rotor drag = less energy in (prime mover)

As far as I know (at this time) these are the the parameters one needs to fine tune to achieve the most efficient Lenz free and Eddy free generator.

One area that has not been explored yet is using more exotic core materials (other than silicon steel) which may give a boost in inductance so we could further reduce wire length and boost current output.

Another area which also needs to be tested is, how much distance do we need between magnets  I find this one to be very important. Do you think a gap between magnets is needed?

Have you connect a scope to your setup to see what's going on? could you do a video of it?

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 12, 2011, 04:28:10 AM
Hello Everyone,

The coils employed in this prototype are 4.5 ohms, 16 gauge bi-filar wound series connected with M1 core laminations and create acceleration at 1800 RPM with a 10 ohm light bulb. Each coil can produce 50 Watts or more and the magnets are 90 lb pulling weight. They create so much torque and acceleration that two set screws on each rotor were not enough to keep them secured to the drive shaft and they had to be returned to the machinist to have key-ways installed. Even now the air gap on each side is about 1/2 an inch. When properly balanced with three rotors and offset cores the cogging torque is virtually zero and the core "cost" was very low - which is reduced as speed increases anyway and is NOT an issue.

I will post the test data when I find it to end this discussion (which is a waste of time BTW) because all generators have coils and cores with some hysterisis losses inherent in them but not all generators accelerate when a load is applied which is the REAL issue.

Cheers
Thane
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: baroutologos on September 12, 2011, 09:47:54 AM
Dear Thane,

We have said it before, we say it again. Those kind of tests are more than an optical illusion rather than scientific ones demonstrating a principle.

Besides the coils, ohm-age, magnets, flux, frequencies and inductancies, motor INPUT and output figures of a VERY efficiency motor have to be taken into consideration and compare net values.

In my eyes, the only "odd" phenomenon" its the magnetic cogging that stops during the application of a current to the working coil, either in "accelarating or decelarating mode"b (iron cores do that in contrary to ferrites). You claim, cogging is not an issue here. I am afraid is not so.

May i sugest,
...................

Since you have a nice laboratory over there, in your next tests to employ ultra high efficiency motors for the specific rpm as high eff. PMDC motors controlled by a variac or the rotoverter principle (more elaborate).

Try to do that, map the exact imput vs output figures and then we discuss again the phenomenon you suggest again and again.

friendly regards,

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 12, 2011, 02:04:31 PM
Dear Thane,

You claim, cogging is not an issue here. I am afraid is not so.

May i suggest,...................

May I suggest blah, blah, blah...

I claim that... your claim that my claim IS a claim is not a correct claim .  :P

I ceased making claims (which are a waste of time) many years ago and started making statements of fact based on empirical evidence which can be shown and repeated.

Cogging torque is not an issue in a PM generator which is correctly balanced - this [fact] is a well established fact.

Cogging torque is not an issue because the generator can be started as a motor and then once up to speed the individual motor coils can be converted over to generator coils and NO EXTERNAL prime mover is required. THIS [fact] HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED ON MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins

Also [fact] the output from a "generator" coil can be fed into a "motor" coil and acceleration can be maintained.

May I suggest that everyone who is bugging Overunityguide to "do this and do that" simply be quiet and watch his progression (which is perfect BTW) and do the same yourself (OR DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE COMMENTING) and share actual [factual] RESULTS not useless statements which have no basis in reality what so ever and take baroutologos earlier advice...Reply #4701 http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.4695 on: April 23, 2009, 08:51:07 AM

Quote

I think that is all the time we were talking about! Excellent done. Nothing more to say. Who has eyes sees and mind understands. baroutologos

May I also suggest that everyone take Einstein's advice, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

Cheers
Thane

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Jack Noskills on September 12, 2011, 03:29:07 PM
I am not upto speed with this motor stuff but I want to ask a question.

Tesla used iron shield in one of his trafo designs to delay magnetic field and then he used the delayed field in create more aiding EMF to secondary.

It occurred to me would shielding also work with electric motors ? Some iron shield between motor coil and magnet would change the drag to pull ? Hmm, maybe this is already seen here.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: baroutologos on September 12, 2011, 11:17:41 PM
Manner up Thane.

all you are talking about is plain BS. How much is it? 3, 4 ,5 years now? What you have shown? Puzzles for dummies? Lol
If there was any potential in your Potential company, it would have been manifested by now. What is it? Oil barons do not let you? lol

At best keep dreamning for your self. DO not BS-ing other naive indiciduals to the electric art.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 13, 2011, 02:11:04 AM
Anyone who thinks technology commercialization is easy or fast is dreaming.

However "good things REALLY do come to those who wait and persist"...
and over 2 Million YouTube views the wait is almost over.

Overunityguide and his brilliant work is proof of this fact.

POTENTIAL +/- DIFFERENCE INC.

Background of Potential Difference Inc. PDI is a Clean-Tech/Energy R & D company which was founded by Thane Heins and incorporated in 2005. Initial PDI research began as flywheel energy storage in collaboration with Dr. Paul Allarie at the University of Virginia's Rotating Machines and Control's Laboratory (ROMAC). PDI was invited to move its research into a satellite lab at the University of Ottawa in 2008 following a successful technology demonstration at MIT. PDI's technologies were further developed and refined under the supervision of Dr. Riadh Habash in Ottawa University's power lab.

PDI R & D Products and areas of Business Technology Activity In 2005 PDI began as a UPS/Flywheel energy storage development company due its development of a Conical Magnetic Bearing Design which is now being licensed by NASA.

PDI's area of focus shifted in 2007 with the development of Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology (RM). Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology (RM) Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology represents major breakthrough in EV and HEV design which will now allows all EVs to continually recharge their batteries and may ultimately provide unlimited range and eliminating the need for plug in recharging.

Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology has the unique ability to reverse the regenerative braking paradigm often employed in EVs to recharge the batteries while decelerating the vehicle. This is accomplished by reversing the polarity of the induced magnetic fields inside the generator.
RM technology can be integrated into existing EV, HEV and ICE vehicle platforms or it can be developed as a standalone motor/generator solution.

CHRYSLER ELECTRIFIED POWERTRAINS
- The technology looks really interesting and is revolutionary. I would like to learn more about the technology. Is it possible to organize a demo or a lecture in the USA?"

GENERAL MOTORS
- "This sounds interesting. I'd like you to connect with our Fuel Economy Learning Program manager, to schedule a time for you to come in and share the technology with us. We need to know more about the Physics behind it".
"I have talked with my colleagues in GM US about your solution for vehicles. So, we would like more details about fuel economy and emissions regarding it. Do you have any company that use this approach in vehicles? I am open for discussion".

MERCEDES-BENZ
- "It would be fitting for the inventor of the automobile to be first with your revolutionary technology and for me to play a role in that would be awesome!"

NISSAN Japan
- "Thanks for providing technical information. If the effect of your invention is really true, I am sure there will be strong needs in the market.
How can you prove this on an actual electric vehicle, for example by making a prototype using our Nissan Leaf? I would like to discuss your business model and financial requirements, investment needs, business plan."

EV WORLD
Mike Brace, EV World Tech Editor
- "When we finally understand what Thane Heins has discovered, we likely will have to rewrite the laws of electromagnetism." http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1890

NASA
Erik Clark NASA-Goddard Space Flight Center - "The magnetics lab here at Goddard expressed some interest in having you come down to do a colloquium"

US AIR FORCE
Omar Mendoza, Program Manager Energy & Environmental Quality Air Force Research Laboratory Wright Patterson
- "We really are more interested in developing its use and application for military power requirements"

ELECTRIC MOBILITY CANADA Mike Elwood, Chairman Electric Mobility Canada and Vice President of Azure Dynamics

"This is a freakin game changer!"

ELECTRIC MOBILITY CANADA Al Cormier, Executive Director Electric Mobility Canada - "I am writing to ask you to submit what you feel would be an appropriate document to describe your regenerative acceleration technology for circulation to our Committee members"

OTTAWA UNIVERSITY Dr. Habash, University of Ottawa

- "Of course it accelerates... this represents several new chapters in physics, that is why we are consulting MIT"

UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO Dr. Stanley Townsend, University of Toronto & Former Managing Editor of the Canadian Journal of Physics
- "Thane, Your Press Release was most interesting to me as a physicist & an engineer.
The level of technical detail was adequate to tell me that you probably have made a very significant advance in applied physics & in safely & successfully handling a new source of electric power. Congratulations!"

MIT
Dr. Marcus Zahn
- "It works and it is not something I would have expected, now I am just trying to figure it out"

RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCE Dr. Evstigneev N.M., Institute for System Analysis, Russian Academy of Science - " A number of your experiments are not lying in the field of Maxwellian electrodynamics"

UNIVERSITY OF CONCORDIA Professor Joseph Shin, Concordia University - "This is absolutely fascinating stuff you are doing"

ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE Mike Simpson, Transportation Analyst Rocky Mountain Institute - "You seem to have made an interesting discovery. Our internal physics experts review this information and have determined that it is very interesting work"

PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS OF ONTARIO Donald Wallace, Executive Director Ontario Centre for Engineering and Public Policy - "Would you be willing to contribute an article on this technology to the Journal for Engineering and Public Policy?"

CANADIAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE David Mann, Canadian Association for the Advancement of Science - "If possible would like to meet with you to discuss your approach to the Association and of course to get a better feel about the physics behind your invention. I would still like to see what you are doing and perhaps we can include some of your material on our website newsletter?"

Thane C. Heins
President
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca

"How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time
-through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone"

-- Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: baroutologos on September 13, 2011, 09:20:24 AM
Not even impressed.

Most of them, have not even taken a magnet in their hands and spin it past a coil.

have fun though
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 13, 2011, 01:40:22 PM
Not even impressed.
Most of them, have not even taken a magnet in their hands and spin it past a coil.

That is because like most people here (and out "there") you can't see past your own EGO unfortunately and nor can they.
But if you could change the way you look at things - the things you look at would change and you and everyone else here would see that;

IF YOU TAKE A CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR - WITH CORES AND PLACE IT ON LOAD WHAT DOES IT DO?
IT DECELERATES DOWN TO A DEAD STOP... THE MORE OUTPUT POWER GENERATED THE FASTER IT DECELERATES.
GENERATOR OUTPUT = ZERO

NOW TAKE THE SAME GENERATOR WITH THE SAME CORES AND THE SAME INPUT DRIVE SHAFT POWER (TORQUE and SPEED) AND PUT REGEN-COILS AND WHAT DOES IT DO ON LOAD?
IT ACCELERATES ... THE MORE OUTPUT POWER GENERATED THE FASTER IT ACCELERATES.
GENERATOR OUTPUT = INFINITY

AS SEEN HERE:

- WHILE VIOLATING

1) LENZ'S LAW,
2) NEWTONS THIRD LAW,
3) THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY
and
4) THE WORK ENERGY PRINCIPLE IN THE PROCESS???!!!
JUST TO NAME A FEW.  :D

Now all the "smart people" here with imaginations who understand an opportunity when they see one will understand what this means, will stop waisting time and will do what is required to either obtain a license which is free BTW or request a Promotional Agreement from PDI and promote the technology and get 3% of the IP royalties for life. What other forum anywhere offers this to everyone for free? And the best part is you can still be a jerk if you want to while cashing your cheques... other kind hearted people like Overunityguide, Gotoluc, IRON, Justme, Aether22, Teslaset LarryC and others will ALL be offered employment at the eariest opportunity and at their convenience. THIS IS THE FUN PART!

Kind regards
Thane

Thane C. Heins
President
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
613.256.4684 (cell)
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca
You Tube http://bit.ly/gCRePU

"How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time
-through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone?"
-- Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Shadesz on September 13, 2011, 04:19:07 PM
Yeah as I suspected, it was a commercial.

Bottom line is the first person to generate and distribute a WORKING self powering dynamo will be the one that gets the credit. Not the one who first thought of the idea. The world is interested in results, not theories and indefinite examples...

I think some people are concerned that others might get there before them...? If they are, their time is better spent figuring out/designing a working unit than trying to market their name. It will be time MUCH better spent.

Please don't distract this forum from the REAL work. Heck, you might learn something from this forum that helps you be 'that guy'. But clogging it with argument and ego-driven 'glory me' posts surely wont get you there any more quickly.

Just my .02
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 14, 2011, 09:24:00 AM
Not even impressed.

@baroutologos,

What is your problem? Why be so negative? Of Course giving criticism is an easy way to go. But really trying to change something and benefit mankind in the future will require some hard work. If you are not interested in Thane's work, then why do you read this thread? Please give motivated people some room to discuss there findings.

Hello Everyone,

The coils employed in this prototype are 4.5 ohms, 16 gauge bi-filar wound series connected with M1 core laminations and create acceleration at 1800 RPM with a 10 ohm light bulb.

Cheers
Thane

@Thane, Thank you for replying and sharing the fact that you use bi-filar wound series connected generator coils in your most recent setup. (I guess many readers didn't even saw this...) I can imagine that this will increase the capacitance of the coil through higher potential differences in the coil it's internal adjacent wires.

Recently I found an interesting article about Bi-Filar coils:

http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/Gruz/forum_matrix.ru/5/VOLTGN.pdf

Thane, thanks again. (and Please don't let other people demotivate you...)

Keep up the Good Work,

And with kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: samedsoft on September 14, 2011, 10:04:28 AM

@Thane,

I would like to thank you as well, you have already opened a gate to new era. No body can slime on it...

Can you comment a solid-state version of this effect?

Like strong electromagnet coil is used inside of the coils, rather than magnet passing through on the top?

I cant understand how delayed lenz effect accelerates shaft? While electron flow on the loading coil does is not affected???

I need to understand in terms of magnetic field creation and collapse terminology...

Hoping to hear from you..

Best Regards

Nuri TemÃ¼rlenk, Turkey

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Jack Noskills on September 14, 2011, 01:03:59 PM
Thane, have you done experiments using Litz cable in your coils ? You could make 3d bifilar windings easily and try different winding styles. Litz comes in many flavours, even rectangular Litz is available.

Have you tried running two currents in the same core in opposite direction at the same time (assuming you are using a core) ? Now you wonder, if currents come from same source they would cancel out each other in the same core. Yes, but using your idea from mary-jo where those currents belong to different sources they would amplify each other while power is taken from them. You would need three cores for this, two for getting two currents from single source then one output core that combines those currents. With Litz wire this would be a joy to test.

If you find above test setup unclear just ask and I will explain in more detail. I have made a short explanation sort of document about this but haven't been able to test the whole setup yet. But you know the back EMF amplification works because you figured it out and I just copied from you, with a couple of twists tho  :D.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Jack Noskills on September 14, 2011, 01:47:37 PM
Read whole thread now and I see the 'problem'. Here is what I came up with,

You take nanoperm toroid with high permeability, divide it in four sections and wound a coil in every even section. So there is space between sections. The magnets you would divide also in four sections, one section facing N, empty section, third section facing S and empty section.
This toroid would then be set so that the rotor is inside, those magnets would sweep inside of the toroid. When motor runs then at any point in time magnets sweep the coils in such a way that each coil gets only hits from magnet facing N or S. Never two at the same time.
This would generate current in those coils in so that when power is taken they would also amplify each other. Nanoperm or maybe even iron would keep the field within itself so there would be no drag. Also the field of a toroid is such that it would not affect the magnets in any way.

Well, this would not generate the delayed Lenz effect but would make an interesting experiment.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 14, 2011, 02:29:34 PM
@Thane, Thank you for replying and sharing the fact that you use bi-filar wound series connected generator coils in your most recent setup. (I guess many readers didn't even saw this...) I can imagine that this will increase the capacitance of the coil through higher potential differences in the coil it's internal adjacent wires.

Bi-filar wound series connected generator coils increase coil capacitance by 200% or more...

If you replace your 380 ohm monster coil with a bi-filar series connected generator coil you ought to be able to get similar results with (I'm guessing) 10 ohms of 20 gauge wire?

from Physics of the Fuelless Generator;

Tesla's new "generator" can be explained solely on the basis of its electrical activity. A bifilar coil is capable of holding more charge than a single wound coil. When operated at resonance, the distributed capacitance of the bifilar coil is able to overcome the counter force normal to coils, inductive reactance. It does not allow what Tesla described (Tesla, 1894) as the formation of "false currents."

Because the electrical activity in the coil does not work against itself in the form of a counter-emf, the potential across the coil quickly builds to a high value. The difference between the turns becomes great enough that (Tesla, 1892) "the energy would be practically all potential." At this point, the system becomes an electrostatic oscillator.

Minimal work is done in the system due to absence of translational movement in the displacement current. As small heat losses occur, oscillations are maintained by the surplus charge stored in the coil. Very low energy expenditure allows power delivery to a load over an extended time period without an external fuel supply.

Cheers
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 14, 2011, 02:47:04 PM
Thane, have you done experiments using Litz cable in your coils ? You could make 3d bifilar windings easily and try different winding styles. Litz comes in many flavours, even rectangular Litz is available.

GOTOLUC SPENT TWO DAYS MAKING A 100 STRAND LITZ COIL HURT HIS BACK DOING IT AND ALMOST HAD A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN IN THE PROCESS  :P (SEE THANE HEINS PEREPITEIA THREAD)

Quote
Have you tried running two currents in the same core in opposite direction at the same time (assuming you are using a core) ? Now you wonder, if currents come from same source they would cancel out each other in the same core.

NOT TRUE... YOU CANNOT USE ONE MAGNETIC FIELD TO CANCEL ANOTHER.
THE (NET) FLUX IN THE CORE WOULD BE ZERO HOWEVER BUT THE MAGNETIC FIELDS WOULD STILL BE THERE BUT THE WIRES WOULD BE REPELLING EACH OTHER.

http://www.stmary.ws/highschool/physics/home/notes/electricity/magnetism/MagForcesBetweenWires.htm

THE CURRENTS WOULD CANCEL IF YOU CONNECTED THE WIRES TOGETHER THOUGH.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Jack Noskills on September 14, 2011, 03:00:17 PM
I meant the electric currents would cancel if only single output so zero power, flux of course would stay.

I have played with two secondarys sharing the same core and they can be connected together. One way they cancel as expected but the other way they add up. Same stuff but just opposite phase. When power was taken voltage also increased, I verified this with third coil that was in the same core with the other two. Third was not connected to anything, just for measuring purposes.

So my test setup was such that primary created the flux, this went on to two secondaries. When power was taken the 'backward' flux of one secondary feeded the other. Also some of it went to primary of course but there was alternate path between secondaries which enabled this feedback to be more efficient.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Jack Noskills on September 14, 2011, 03:15:30 PM
With my testing when I got 1.86 COP from a trafo I realised that the amount of COP over 1 was related to area of core that was on the alternate path between secondaries. It was about the same size as area that was in the primary so it makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: i_ron on September 15, 2011, 03:35:10 AM
@baroutologos,

What is your problem? Why be so negative? Of Course giving criticism is an easy way to go. But really trying to change something and benefit mankind in the future will require some hard work. If you are not interested in Thane's work, then why do you read this thread? Please give motivated people some room to discuss there findings.

snip

And with kind Regards, Overunityguide

Far from being negative, Baroutologos is a serious hands on experimenter. What he is reporting has been verified through experiment. He speaks the truth. I have verified these same experiments and confirm his work.

What this list needs is more good people like Baroutologos who are not afraid of the truth and are willing to speak out!

It is interesting that the two people with questionable unproven technologies should be so quick to castigate my friend.

Ron

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 15, 2011, 01:45:32 PM
Far from being negative, Baroutologos is a serious hands on experimenter. What he is reporting has been verified through experiment. He speaks the truth. I have verified these same experiments and confirm his work. What this list needs is more good people like Baroutologos who are not afraid of the truth and are willing to speak out!  It is interesting that the two people with questionable unproven technologies should be so quick to castigate my friend.Ron

SOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE...  :-\

"What we think determines what happens to us, so if we want to change our lives, we need to stretch our minds" ~ Wayne Dyer

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 15, 2011, 03:51:13 PM
Quote
Far from being negative, Baroutologos is a serious hands on experimenter. What he is reporting has been verified through experiment.

AND EVERYONE CAN FIND IT WHERE?

Quote
He speaks the truth. I have verified these same experiments and confirm his work.

WHICH EVERYONE CAN FIND WHERE?

Quote
What this list needs is more good people like Baroutologos who are not afraid of the truth and are willing to speak out!

SPEAK OUT AGAINST WHAT EXACTLY?

Quote
It is interesting that the two people with questionable unproven technologies should be so quick to castigate my friend.

Ron

OK HERE IS PROOF...

1) CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR COILS CREATE "MAGNETIC FRICTION" ARMATURE REACTION COUNTER TORQUE AS EXPLAINED IN LENZ'S LAW WHICH SATISFY NEWTON'S THIRD LAW... "FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION."

THE PROOF OF THIS CAN BE SEEN HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYi2OyS5cK4

...AND THE FACT IS LENZ'S LAW HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CORES, HYSTERESIS OR COGGING TORQUE ETC BECAUSE LENZ'S LAW STILL APPLIES IN AIR CORE AXIAL FLUX GENERATORS. ANYONE WHO SUGGESTS OTHERWISE IS EITHER IGNORANT OR DELIBERATELY MISLEADING PEOPLE - WHICH IS NOT NEW ON THESE FORUMS.

2) THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR COILS CREATE MAGNETIC ASSISTANCE COMPLIMENTARY TORQUE WHICH IS ALSO EVIDENT IN THE SAME VIDEOS ABOVE.

3) THE IEEE ACCEPTED EQUATION FOR HOW MUCH DRIVE SHAFT TORQUE IS REQUIRED TO PRODUCE 1 WATT OF POWER AT 3000 RPM IS:

Torque (Nm) = KW x 9550/RPM

SO 0.003 Nm OF EXTRA TORQUE IS REQUIRED TO SUPPLY 1 WATT OF POWER AT 3000 RPM. IN ANY GENERATOR SYSTEM ON THE PLANET EARTH.

NOTE: EXTRA TORQUE IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE 1 WATT OR 1 MILLION WATTS OF POWER IN A CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR SYSTEM.

HOWEVER IN THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR (RM) PARADIGM NO EXTRA TORQUE IS REQUIRED IN FACT IF A STEADY STATE SPEED OF 3000 RPM IS DESIRED WHEN USING THE RM COILS THEN THE DRIVE SHAFT TORQUE MUST ACTUALLY BE REDUCED BECAUSE THE RM CREATES ITS OWN TORQUE.

THIS WAS INDEPENDENTLY PROVEN BY NRC SCIENTIST DOUG HARTWICK AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY (DATA ATTACHED) AND FOR MAGNA INTERNATIONAL (DATA ATTACHED).

NRC TEST DATA SHOW:

1)A 12% INCREASE IN PRIME MOVER INPUT TO SUPPLY POWER TO A 10 OHM LOAD IN A CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR SYSTEM.

2) A 40% DECREASE IN PRIME MOVER INPUT IS REQUIRED IN THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR MODE TO SUPPLY 223% MORE POWER TO THE SAME 10 LOAD AT THE SAME RPM FROM TEST #1 ABOVE. Running the tests at the same RPM ensures that the induction motor is operating at the same efficiency.

3) 0.00 WATTS OF OUTPUT FROM THE CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR WITH THE SAME PRIME MOVER INPUT AS TEST #2 ABOVE.

CONCLUSIONS:

4) THE RM GENERATOR PRODUCES 4 WATTS OF POWER TO THE LOAD.

5) WITH THE SAME PRIME MOVER INPUT THE CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR PRODUCES 0.00 WATTS.

6) THE PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGE OF THE RM COIL vs THE CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR COIL IS INFINITE%.

MAGNA INTERNATIONAL TORQUE TEST SHOW:

7) A 10.6% DECREASE IN DRIVE SHAFT TORQUE WHEN A CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR COIL SUPPLIES POWER TO THE GRID WITH A FIXED PRIME MOVER INPUT.

8) A 6.5% INCREASE IN DRIVE SHAFT TORQUE WHEN THE RM COIL DELIVERS 21.6% MORE POWER TO THE GRID WITH THE SAME PRIME MOVER INPUT AS ABOVE IN #7.

OVERALL RM CONCLUSIONS:

AS THE OUTPUT POWER DELIVERED TO A LOAD IS INCREASED TO INFINITY IN A CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR SYSTEM - THE INPUT POWER TO THE PRIME MOVER MUST ALSO BE INCREASED TO INFINITY AS WELL.

AS THE OUTPUT POWER TO A LOAD IS INCREASED TO INFINITY IN A REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR SYSTEM THE INPUT CAN BE DECREASED TO ZERO.

CHEERS
T

Thane C. Heins
President
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

NRC AND MAGNA INTERNATIONAL TEST DATA ATTACHMENTS BELOW:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Shadesz on September 15, 2011, 04:37:41 PM
...AND LENZ'S LAW HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CORES, HYSTERESIS OR COGGING TORQUE ETC BECAUSE LENZ'S LAW STILL APPLIES IN AIR CORE AXIAL FLUX GENERATORS.

I will have to disagree with this logic. It's like saying cold pizza isn't good because hot pizza is...

Lenz law can apply to both... and perhaps one way to overcome it relates to a properly designed core.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 15, 2011, 05:18:20 PM
Lenz law can apply to both... and perhaps one way to overcome it relates to a properly designed core.

I WILL HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THIS LOGIC BECAUSE IT IS LIKE SAYING A ROUND PIZZA IS NO GOOD SO WE HAVE TO INVENT A SQUARE PIZZA BECAUSE IT WILL BE BETTER...?  ???

WHY SCREW AROUND WITH CORES WHEN SCREWING AROUND WITH THE COIL GETS THE JOB DONE SINCE 2007?  ;)

A REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR CAN SUPPLY AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF POWER TO A LOAD WITH A FIXED PRIME MOVER INPUT

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?  :-\

CHECK OUT THE KINETIC ENERGY GENERATING SYSTEM BIKE PROJECT WHICH IS CURRENTLY BEING BUILT TO PROVIDE MOTIVE POWER WITH NO EXTERNAL SOURCE OF POWER.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Shadesz on September 15, 2011, 05:38:35 PM
I WILL HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THIS LOGIC BECAUSE IT IS LIKE SAYING A ROUND PIZZA IS NO GOOD SO WE HAVE TO INVENT A SQUARE PIZZA BECAUSE IT WILL BE BETTER...?  ???

WHY SCREW AROUND WITH CORES WHEN SCREWING AROUND WITH THE COIL GETS THE JOB DONE SINCE 2007?  ;)

A REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR CAN SUPPLY AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF POWER TO A LOAD WITH A FIXED PRIME MOVER INPUT

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?  :-\

CHECK OUT THE KINETIC ENERGY GENERATING SYSTEM BIKE PROJECT WHICH IS CURRENTLY BEING BUILT TO PROVIDE MOTIVE POWER WITH NO EXTERNAL SOURCE OF POWER.

CHEERS
T

FIRST, I LOVE to USE CAPITAL letters in TEXT because IT represents me YELLING and THAT yelling MUST make MY information MORE important! So please LISTEN to WHAT I am SAYING!

Seriously, If you want people to take you serious, choose a different screen name and don't present yourself as such a zealot. Yelling doesn't make people listen to what you have to say. In fact, it offends them and turns them off of your knowledge.

Second,
I haven't seen one of your free energy generators (or so you claim) on the market.

Third,
It is obvious that you are so in love with your design you are not open to other ideas. That is not a very good scientist, engineer, marketer, inventor, or whatever you decide you are.

Peace out. I don't like to argue, it wastes time and energy that can be spent on more productive things.

I simply hope people realize that there are more ways to do it than "Thane's way"

I hope you get this OU bike on the market. I really do. The world needs something like that. Happy building.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Shadesz on September 15, 2011, 05:40:40 PM
double post sorry
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: i_ron on September 15, 2011, 06:23:32 PM
AND EVERYONE CAN FIND IT WHERE?

WHICH EVERYONE CAN FIND WHERE?

From the information you have released here is how coil shorting works.
Note this is a full time short and not peak shorting ala Kone Head

This video was first presented in 2009

1) baseline, no coil/core, 1.2A @ 80 volts AC  (input) 3419 RPM

2) coil/core drag, 1.85 A @ 80 volts, 3216 RPM

3) coil core shorted, 1.53 A @80 volts, 3330 RPM

You can hear the rotor accelerate so I have Thane "acceleration" but it is only drag reduction and never exceeds the prime mover RPM .

This is a valid test of among many that have been released, conforming to the information you have released. If you have unreleased propitiatory information then it becomes a whole new ball game. In which case to be believable you have to open source this information.

Both you and romero should do this to become believable, other wise the charlatan label sticks better than velcro.

Ron

As an aside, I did work with Thane in those days and built two rotors for him. He paid me more than I asked so I have no axe to grind with him other than the lack of real information presented here or any other list.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 15, 2011, 07:00:52 PM
Quote
This video was first presented in 2009

1) NO LOAD PRIME MOVER INPUT = 1.85 A @ 80 volts, 3216 RPM
A) (which is a function of prime mover efficiency, core quality, coil output optimization/design)
B) (core quality/hysterisis losses apply in ALL permanent magnet generators whereas NONE accelerate themselves when a load is applied).

2) INFINITE LOAD PRIME MOVER INPUT 1.53 A @80 volts, 3330 RPM

You can hear the rotor accelerate so I have REGENERATIVE "acceleration" WHICH IS INCREASING THE SPEED AND INERTIA IN THE SYSTEM - WITH NO EXTRA ADDED INPUT POWER IN FACT THERE IS ACTUALLY AN ENERGY DECREASE WHICH IS A VIOLATION OF THE WORK ENERGY PRINCIPLE. YEAH!  :D

Quote
This is a valid test of among many that have been released, conforming to the information you have released. Ron

NICE WORK RON! - IF YOU UPGRADE YOUR COIL DESIGN (AS I MENTIONED EARLIER IN THIS THREAD) YOU CAN GET MORE THAN 50 WATTS OUTPUT... AND YOU CAN KEEP ADDING COILS AND CREATING ACCELERATION AT INFINITUM.

Quote
As an aside, I did work with Thane in those days and built two rotors for him. He paid me more than I asked so I have no axe to grind PERHAPS A KNIFE IN THE BACK BUT DEFINATELY NO AXE - WAY TOO MESSY >:(

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on September 16, 2011, 04:26:52 AM
1) NO LOAD PRIME MOVER INPUT = 1.85 A @ 80 volts, 3216 RPM
A) (which is a function of prime mover efficiency, core quality, coil output optimization/design)
B) (core quality/hysterisis losses apply in ALL permanent magnet generators whereas NONE accelerate themselves when a load is applied).

snip...

C)  : baseline, no coil/core, 1.2A @ 80 volts AC  (input) 3419 RPM
Oh that's right, C can't be attributed to your data because you don't do baseline measurements for total system efficiency analysis.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Jack Noskills on September 16, 2011, 08:49:04 AM
Results do not show what is the power created by the coil so a bit unfair comparison. Also what is the effect when adding coils if one coil has positive effect ?
Anyway, effect has been confirmed by 3rd party so makes no sense to argue about it. I am interested in making it better, I am engineer so always want to improve things. Drives the wife nuts sometimes.

What is your opinion about running the magnets inside toroid made of high perm material ? If iron has u about 5000, and you replace that with core that has u of 450000 then that should give a boost to output load.
If toroid is used then there would be no drag as the magnetic is vertical and the creating field is horizontal. Well maybe magnets would attract to core but enough airgap should reduce this effect.
This does not give you adding of torgue, but would create power without drag. And if you apply Thane's back EMF aplification in the toroid coils you would get double output.

I would add iron shield between the magnet and coil, in fact better to make this shield from iron wire and use it as a coil so that it goes around the HV coil, or just smaller coil that is between magnet and HV coil. For example air core toroid of iron wire and HV coils inside or outside if smaller toroid is preferred. You would then get power out from the shield coil also and no drag. If voltage matches the HV coil you can connect it in parallel, otherwise you can connect it in series with HV coil.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 16, 2011, 10:29:15 AM
CHECK OUT THE KINETIC ENERGY GENERATING SYSTEM BIKE PROJECT WHICH IS CURRENTLY BEING BUILT TO PROVIDE MOTIVE POWER WITH NO EXTERNAL SOURCE OF POWER.

CHEERS
T

Dear Thane,

I would love to see anyone spinning on your â€˜Kinetic Energy Generating Bikeâ€™ in the near future. For me there is no doubt that the regenerative acceleration effect exists and that it can be used in real world applications in the future.

Maybe what you can do when you have finished the Kinetic Bike, is to let any of the critics spin around on it and let them accelerate until they are crapping their pants. :)

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

For Information about the Confirmation of the Negative Lenz Effect:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 16, 2011, 01:33:23 PM
C)  : baseline, no coil/core, 1.2A @ 80 volts AC  (input) 3419 RPM

Oh that's right, C can't be attributed to your data because WITHOUT CORES ITS NOT A GENERATOR IT IS JUST A ROUND THING ROTATING IN THIN AIR...

AND BECAUSE ALL GENERATORS IN THIS CONTEXT HAVE:

1) WIRE AND WIRE RESISTANCE
2) BEARINGS AND BEARING RESISTANCE
3) CORES AND CORE RESISTANCE

BUT IF YOU ARE SINCERE AND YOU COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES I.E TWO IDENTICAL GENERATORS ON NO LOAD WITH:

4) THE SAME DRIVE SHAFT AT THE SAME RPM WITH THE SAME DRIVE SHAFT TORQUE SUPPLIED BY THE SAME PRIME MOVER BE IT AN ELECTRIC MOTOR, GAS OR DIESEL ENGINE, WIND, STEAM, WATER, DONKEY, GERBILS OR WHATEVER AS PDI HAS DONE. (SEE OTTAWA UNIVERSITY VIDEO BELOW)

5) THE CONVENTIONAL (REGENERATIVE BRAKING) GENERATOR WILL DECELERATE THE SYSTEM WHEN PLACED ON LOAD. AND THE GREATER THE LOAD THE FASTER THE RATE OF DECELERATION.

6) THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR WILL ACCELERATE THE SYSTEM WHEN PLACED ON LOAD AND THE GREATER THE LOAD THE FASTER THE RATE OF ACCELERATION.

7) THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR COIL WILL EVEN ACCELERATE WHEN THE LOAD IS ALMOST 7 TIMES GREATER THAN THE CONVENTIONAL LOAD AND

8) THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR WILL ALSO ACCELERATE THROUGH THE DECELERATION CAUSED BY THE CONVENTIONAL COIL AS SHOWN HERE WITH A PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGE THAT EXCEEDS 500%: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JVjbXOssQ

CHEERS
T

Thane C. Heins
President
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca

"How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time
-through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone"
~ Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 16, 2011, 01:54:30 PM
Dear Thane,
Maybe what you can do when you have finished the Kinetic Bike, is to let any of the critics spin around on it and let them accelerate until they are crapping their pants. :)
With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

For Information about the Confirmation of the Negative Lenz Effect:

DEAR OVERUNITYGUIDE,

FIRST OF ALL THERE IS A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CRITIC AND A CYNIC

1. Believing that people are motivated by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity.
2. Doubtful as to whether something will happen or is worthwhile.

CRITICISM IS POSITIVE AND CAN BE CONSTRUCTIVE CYNICISM IS NOT.

HERE IS ANOTHER CONFIRMATION FROM SWEDEN:

QUESTION:
IN YOUR SETUP DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO PUT YOUR SHORTED COIL ON A SWIVEL AND HAVE IT FACING AWAY FROM THE ROTOR AND THEN MOVE IT INTO POSITION ONCE THE ROTOR IS UP TO SPEED?

GOTOLUC AND I DID THIS AT OU (OTTAWA UNIVERSITY) BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY VIDEO ETC.

IF YOU WERE TO DO THIS I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU REPLACE YOUR ?ALUMINUM? BOLT MOUNT WHICH CREATES LOTS OF EDDY CURRENTS WITH STEEL WHICH WILL ATTRACT MORE ROTOR FLUX THROUGH YOUR CORE AND INCREASE YOUR COIL'S INDUCED VOLTAGE AND INCREASE THE EFFECTS. IF THAT COIL MOUNT IS INDEED ALUMINUM - IT OUGHT TO BE REPLACED ASAP.

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 16, 2011, 02:43:05 PM
DEAR OVERUNITYGUIDE,

HERE IS SOMETHING ELSE YOU CAN TRY IF YOU LIKE...?

1) MAKE A CONVENTIONAL COIL AND PLACE IT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROTOR TO
2)SHOW "CONVENTIONAL ON LOAD GENERATOR REACTION" AND
3) THEN FEED THE OUTPUT OF YOUR REGEN COIL INTO THE CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR COIL WHICH WOULD BE ACTING NOW AS A MOTOR COIL TO CREATE MORE ACCELERATION.

nilrehob's COMMENT IN HIS VIDEO, "THIS IS FUN" REALLY STARTS TO APPLY WHEN YOU SEE THAT YOU CAN SUPPLY POWER TO A LOAD AND BOOTSTRAP THE SYSTEM TO DRIVE ITSELF...  :o

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on September 16, 2011, 02:55:16 PM
Oh that's right, C can't be attributed to your data because WITHOUT CORES ITS NOT A GENERATOR IT IS JUST A ROUND THING ROTATING IN THIN AIR...

AND BECAUSE ALL GENERATORS IN THIS CONTEXT HAVE:

1) WIRE AND WIRE RESISTANCE
2) BEARINGS AND BEARING RESISTANCE
3) CORES AND CORE RESISTANCE

BUT IF YOU ARE SINCERE AND YOU COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES I.E TWO IDENTICAL GENERATORS ON NO LOAD WITH:

4) THE SAME DRIVE SHAFT AT THE SAME RPM WITH THE SAME DRIVE SHAFT TORQUE SUPPLIED BY THE SAME PRIME MOVER BE IT AN ELECTRIC MOTOR, GAS OR DIESEL ENGINE, WIND, STEAM, WATER, DONKEY, GERBILS OR WHATEVER AS PDI HAS DONE. (SEE OTTAWA UNIVERSITY VIDEO BELOW)

5) THE CONVENTIONAL (REGENERATIVE BRAKING) GENERATOR WILL DECELERATE THE SYSTEM WHEN PLACED ON LOAD. AND THE GREATER THE LOAD THE FASTER THE RATE OF DECELERATION.

6) THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR WILL ACCELERATE THE SYSTEM WHEN PLACED ON LOAD AND THE GREATER THE LOAD THE FASTER THE RATE OF ACCELERATION.

7) THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR COIL WILL EVEN ACCELERATE WHEN THE LOAD IS ALMOST 7 TIMES GREATER THAN THE CONVENTIONAL LOAD AND

8) THE REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION GENERATOR WILL ALSO ACCELERATE THROUGH THE DECELERATION CAUSED BY THE CONVENTIONAL COIL AS SHOWN HERE WITH A PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGE THAT EXCEEDS 500%: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JVjbXOssQ

CHEERS
T

Thane C. Heins
President
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca

"How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time
-through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone"
~ Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller
When you demonstrate your generator running itself with no external power supply and motor driver, I'll be happy to applaud your ingenuity. In the meantime your comic relief, aka, yadda yadda, is worthy of a clap or two.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 16, 2011, 03:02:27 PM
DEAR OVERUNITYGUIDE,

FIRST OF ALL THERE IS A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CRITIC AND A CYNIC

1. Believing that people are motivated by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity.
2. Doubtful as to whether something will happen or is worthwhile.

CRITICISM IS POSITIVE AND CAN BE CONSTRUCTIVE CYNICISM IS NOT.

CHEERS
T

Dear Thane,

Actually the word which I was looking for was sceptics instead of critics...
But as you mentioned, cynics is maybe even beter...

But to answer your question, yes I am using a simple steel bolt as a core for now and indeed, the Generator Coil Casing is made out of aluminum...

I agree that this can be done much better, but my problem is that I don't have a machine shop myself, so unfortunately I have to stick with home improvement mechanics for now. And about the Swiveling mechanism, I have tried to run the motor without the generator coil, and it will give me a slightly lower input wattage. But this can be expected due to the eddy currents, and al other disadvantages of my simple setup...

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 16, 2011, 03:56:07 PM
But to answer your question, yes I am using a simple steel bolt as a core for now and indeed, the Generator Coil Casing is made out of aluminum... Overunityguide

SORRY I DIDN'T MEAN THE ROTOR - WHICH CAN BE ANYTHING INCLUDING LEXAN BUT NOT PLEXIGLASS AS GOTOLUC FOUND OUT WHEN HE BLEW UP HIS BROTHERS GARAGE!  :P

I MEANT THAT CORE/BOLT MOUNT WHICH IS SECURED TO THE WOOD - IS THAT ALUMINUM?

IF SO IT IS CREATING LENZ DRAG ON NO LOAD JUST BY SITTING THERE.
IF IT WERE "SOFT" STEEEL IT WOULD ATTRACT ROTOR FLUX AND PERFORM SLIGHTLY BETTER. THAT IS ALL I MEANT.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 16, 2011, 03:59:02 PM
When you demonstrate your generator running itself with no external power supply and motor driver, I'll be happy to applaud your ingenuity. In the meantime your comic relief, aka, yadda yadda, is worthy of a clap or two.

NO STORY IS EVER COMPLETE WITHOUT THE ANTAGONIST(S)...

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Shadesz on September 16, 2011, 04:43:42 PM
Am I the only one who feels that Thane's rant's distract and destroy what were once quality threads? It is sad really...

:'(
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: i_ron on September 16, 2011, 05:08:02 PM
Am I the only one who feels that Thane's rant's distract and destroy what were once quality threads? It is sad really...

:'(

Well it is a good thing for Thane to show his true colors, people are then better prepared to form their own opinion.

But notice not one shred of, "this is how I achieved a self runner, for you to do the same this is the criteria that must be met, steps 1 to n, etc etc"

Ron

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: neptune on September 16, 2011, 07:19:29 PM
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on September 17, 2011, 11:51:52 AM
SSSSOooooo Thane

Needa Hug ??

These guys are gonna eat their words {unsalted}[no sweetner either].

Gotta Job for me? I can Dress Lucs wounds {coil winding]?
Or Ice Packs For Hematomas [when the Magnets fly loose [Ouch]]!

Push A mean broom??

Of course Hugs........

And if someone needs a little "Choke"?? [small ones?]

I'll send you my RES!

Chet

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 17, 2011, 02:26:08 PM
Gotta Job for me? I'll send you my RES!
Chet

(as well as anyone else who is interested)

WE ARE COMMERCIALIZING BOTH THE RM AND BiTT AND HAVE:

1) A CANADIAN MOTOR/GENERATOR/TRANSFORMER MANUFATURER ON BOARD WHO IS DESIGNING 1 - 20 KW BiTTs FOR A CLIENT IN EUROPE - THESE BiTTs WILL OPERATE AT A PRACTICAL 30 - 50% POWER CONSUMPTION REDUCTION OVER CONVENTIONAL TRANSFORMERS AND WE HOPE WILL NOT REQUIRE OIL BATHS FOR COOLING. (ON THE SIDE WE ARE DEVELOPING THE SAME BiTTS WHICH DELIVER 1 - 20 KW BUT ONLY CONSUME PURE REACTIVE POWER ie NO REAL POWER WHICH WILL BE INTRODUCED TO THE SAME CLIENT LATER ON)
2) A CLIENT IN INDIA WHO WANTS RMs FOR SCOOTERS THERE AND
3) A RUSSIAN CAR COMPANY THAT ALSO WANTS RMs
3) AN AMERICAN COMPANY WHO IS PLANNING TO BUILD HOME AND BUSINESS GENERATORS AND THEIR FIRST CLIENT (WHO WE INTRODUCED THEM TO) IS A COMPANY IN INDIA WHO NEEDS GENERATORS FOR THEIR WATER PURIFICATION SYSTEMS FOR THE POOR AND NEEDY IN RURAL INDIA AND AFRICA. THIS COMPANT'S MAIN WISH IS TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY TO PUT AMERICA BACK TO WORK.

WE HAVE PROMOTIONAL (SALES) POSITIONS AVAILABLE AND SOON ENGINEER CLIENT REP POSITIONS. WE WILL ALSO HAVE POSITIONS OPENING UP FOR OUR NEW LICENSING COMPANY WHICH GOES ON LINE SOON.

IF YOU HAVE ANY PROFESSIONAL CONNECTIONS IN INDUSTRY THAT YOU THINK COULD BENNEFIT FROM EITHER THE BiTT OR RM AS AND END USER OR DISTRIBUTOR THEN ALLOW US TO SEND YOU A PROMOTIONAL AGREEMENT WHICH WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH COMPENSATION  IN THE EVENT THAT A "FREE" LICENSE IS SIGNED AS A RESULT OF AN INTRODUCTION YOU MAKE.

THERE ARE AT LEAST 4 PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTRODUCED THEMSELVES VIA THIS FORUM WHO NOW HAVE SUCH AGREEMENTS AND AT LEAST 2 INVITATIONS PENDING.

AND OF COURSE WE ALSO HAVE OUR 3000 PROFESSIONAL CONNECTIONS ON LINKEDIN TO STAY IN TOUCH WITH. (SEE ATTACHED)

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: i_ron on September 17, 2011, 07:58:55 PM

I mentioned that as that was my introduction to FE, way back when.

He did admit that after he changed the wiring it no longer worked and he just sort of faded away. I know of no successful replications.

Ron
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on September 17, 2011, 08:17:16 PM
I mentioned that as that was my introduction to FE, way back when.

He did admit that after he changed the wiring it no longer worked and he just sort of faded away. I know of no successful replications.

Ron

I made replication back then in the days of yahoo groups... I used floppy drive coils conected in "no lenz" way and hard drive magnets and bearings. The first time I powered the motor it started to accelerate like crazy and few seconds later magnets were flying all over the room. Later I made more robust motor but the rotor was much smaller and the bearings were from roller-blades. This one was total failure it barely turned so I went on to the newmans motor which become popular in that time...

Both motors can be seen here:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on September 18, 2011, 01:14:00 PM
snip...
I used floppy drive coils ..
snip

Nice pancakes. Were they from a 5 1/4 inch floppy drive?
Look the same as early 1970's VCR coils.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on September 18, 2011, 10:25:54 PM
Yes the big 5 1/4" floppy drive coils.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 20, 2011, 11:27:53 AM
SORRY I DIDN'T MEAN THE ROTOR - WHICH CAN BE ANYTHING INCLUDING LEXAN BUT NOT PLEXIGLASS AS GOTOLUC FOUND OUT WHEN HE BLEW UP HIS BROTHERS GARAGE!  :P

I MEANT THAT CORE/BOLT MOUNT WHICH IS SECURED TO THE WOOD - IS THAT ALUMINUM?

IF SO IT IS CREATING LENZ DRAG ON NO LOAD JUST BY SITTING THERE.
IF IT WERE "SOFT" STEEEL IT WOULD ATTRACT ROTOR FLUX AND PERFORM SLIGHTLY BETTER. THAT IS ALL I MEANT.

CHEERS
T

Dear Thane,

Indeed, the core/bolt mount is made of aluminum... And I agree that by just sitting there it will decrease the performance of the generator coil. But in my case it has to be made from a solid/stiff material, because otherwise it will start vibrating when the rotor magnets are passing by.

But you are right maybe it is better to replace it by a soft steel core mount, instead of using aluminum...

With Kind Regards,

Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 20, 2011, 01:54:30 PM
But you are right maybe it is better to replace it by a soft steel core mount, instead of using aluminum...With Kind Regards,Overunityguide

DEAR OVERUNITYGUIDE,

IF YOU WANT TO AVOID THE "RATH" OF OVERUNITY FORUM ARMCHAIR CRITICS THEN YOU HAVE TO SO SEVERAL THINGS WHICH INCLUDE:

1) BALANCING COGGING TORQUE SO IT EQUALS ZERO,
2) USING CORES THAT HAVE NO HYSTERISIS LOSSES OR CORE LOSSES,
3) USING A PRIME MOVER AND FREQUENCY CONTROLLER THAT ARE 100% EFFICIENT

IF YOU CAN'T DO ALL THESE THINGS INSTANTLY THEN YOU WILL BE SHUNNED AND PERHAPS EVEN CRUCIFIED ON THE ALTAR OF PUBLIC HUMILIATION.

OR YOU COULD SIMPLY SAY WHATEVER ... AND MOUNT YOUR MILTIPLE COILS ON GOOD TOROID MATERIAL IN THE FUTURE TO KEEP THE INITIAL LOSSES DOWN.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 24, 2011, 11:18:06 PM
Hello you Guys,

Today I have made a new Video about the Thane C Heins, Regenerative Acceleration Effect. This time there were no moving parts involved. This time I was able to show the same effect inside a transformer...

Please see my new video about the regenerative generator effect also taking place in a transformer:

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 25, 2011, 05:29:53 AM
Good experiment idea and video demonstration Overunityguide

I will try it using my signal generator output on a special toroid core that has an extremely high permeability. As it is I have a winding on it of .8mm wire and it measures 7.5 Henrys and an unbelievably low 4.4 Ohms DC resistance.

I'll have to dig out my signal generator and also do a primary winding on top of the 7.5 Henry winding.

I'll post a video demo in some days

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on September 25, 2011, 05:45:34 AM

I will try it using my signal generator output on a special toroid core that has an extremely high permeability. As it is I have a winding on it of .8mm wire and it measures 7.5 Henrys and an unbelievably low 4.4 Ohms DC resistance.

Hey Luc

Wow.  Thats kind of unheard of. What kind of core?

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 25, 2011, 06:05:04 AM
Hey Luc

Wow.  Thats kind of unheard of. What kind of core?

Mags

Hi Mags,

I also have a hard time believing the Inductance value but it's what my Inductance meter reads.

The the Toroid core was given to me by user Peterae  and I think it's this model of FERROXCUBE: http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=3057010

Let me know what you think

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on September 25, 2011, 06:09:55 AM
Lonny Like.   ;]

Cheap too.  What do you have for wire/turns?

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 25, 2011, 06:19:22 AM
Lonny Like.   ;]

Cheap too.  What do you have for wire/turns?

Mags

I did not count the turns. I made this coil over a year ago. Anyways, don't know what it's going to do until I try it.

I'll have to dig some stuff out to test it so it's going to take some days.

Keep a lookout ;)

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on September 25, 2011, 06:26:59 AM
Just thinking about it, this may be able to breath some life into a microwave transformer. Just need to find the freq of operation.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 25, 2011, 07:50:09 PM
Hello you All,

After a couple of questions about doing a video about scope shots and power factor measurements on my Regenerative Acceleration Generator effect Transformer, here you can find my follow up video:

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 25, 2011, 09:40:29 PM
Lonny Like.   ;]

Cheap too.  What do you have for wire/turns?

Mags

The AL value for the TX36/23/15 3E5 type toroidal core is 11400nH/N2

This gives about 811 turns for the 7.5 Henry measured inductance
(formula is N=(L/AL)1/2

811 turns sound very much and probably filled up almost all the inner diameter or the toroid core. The 4.4 Ohm DC resistance for the 0.8mm (I considered 0.812mm for AWG 20 which has 33.31 Ohm resistance for 1000m length) copper wire gives about a wire length of 132 meter. Is this more or less ok, Luc?

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 25, 2011, 10:52:09 PM
Just thinking about it, this may be able to breath some life into a microwave transformer. Just need to find the freq of operation.  ;]

Mags

@Magluvin,
It depends on what Inductance / Impedance your secondary coil of this microwave transformer has... For sure it has to be high... But with my setup I am limited to 950 Hz, because that is the upper limit of my frequency drive controller.

But when you can go higher than 950 Hz, than your inductance / impedance of your secondary can be slightly lower, but still it needs to be wayï»¿ higher than the primary coil. But the laminations for higher frequencies needs to be also be thinner.

Mags, do you know what a normal inductance value would be for the secondary coil of a microwave transformer?

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Most Recent, Regenerative Acceleration Effect inside a Transformer:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 25, 2011, 11:33:04 PM

...
do you know what a normal inductance value would be for the secondary coil of a microwave transformer?
...

It must be in the several Henry range.  A google search brought this:
primary L=68.2mH
HV secondary L=15.5H

Maybe the laminations could work up to some hundred Hz for the older type transformers (nowadays there are ovens with switch-mode power supply to get the HV too).

Cheers,  Gyula

PS: just recall this pdf file member poynt99 uploaded that includes info on oven transformer, page 17:
Primary: R= 0.35 Ohms; L= 44.4mH
Secondary: R= 88 Ohms; L= 19.3H
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 26, 2011, 11:58:15 AM
It must be in the several Henry range.  A google search brought this:
primary L=68.2mH
HV secondary L=15.5H

Maybe the laminations could work up to some hundred Hz for the older type transformers (nowadays there are ovens with switch-mode power supply to get the HV too).

Cheers,  Gyula

PS: just recall this pdf file member poynt99 uploaded that includes info on oven transformer, page 17:
Primary: R= 0.35 Ohms; L= 44.4mH
Secondary: R= 88 Ohms; L= 19.3H

Ok, thank you very much

With Kind Regards Overunityguide

Most Recent, Regenerative Acceleration Effect inside a Transformer:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 26, 2011, 04:54:42 PM
The AL value for the TX36/23/15 3E5 type toroidal core is 11400nH/N2

This gives about 811 turns for the 7.5 Henry measured inductance
(formula is N=(L/AL)1/2

811 turns sound very much and probably filled up almost all the inner diameter or the toroid core. The 4.4 Ohm DC resistance for the 0.8mm (I considered 0.812mm for AWG 20 which has 33.31 Ohm resistance for 1000m length) copper wire gives about a wire length of 132 meter. Is this more or less ok, Luc?

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

I had to pickup my Digital Caliper from storage to re-check the diameter of the wire. It is actually 0.50 mm with enamel coating. The DC resistance is correct @ 4.4 Ohms so you should be able to figure out the wire length and approximate amount of turns.

Let me know if something does not look right.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 26, 2011, 05:08:05 PM
It must be in the several Henry range.  A google search brought this:
primary L=68.2mH
HV secondary L=15.5H

Maybe the laminations could work up to some hundred Hz for the older type transformers (nowadays there are ovens with switch-mode power supply to get the HV too).

Cheers,  Gyula

PS: just recall this pdf file member poynt99 uploaded that includes info on oven transformer, page 17:
Primary: R= 0.35 Ohms; L= 44.4mH
Secondary: R= 88 Ohms; L= 19.3H

Hi Gyula,

I have a Microwave oven transformer and the Primary is 69mH and Secondary is not measurable since my Inductance meter can measure 20H max, so it must be just a little over 20H.

I'll give it a try with my Signal Generator to see if I can find a frequency that the load is not reflected to the Primary.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 26, 2011, 07:08:17 PM
Hi everyone,

here is a video demo of a possible Delayed Lenz Effect with attached scope shots below.

A Microwave Oven Transformer Primary is connected to the output of my Signal Generator. The Primary of this Transformer is 69mH and the Secondary is around 21H. I tested the Secondary in three different conditions, not connected (open circuit), connected to a Neon bulb and Short circuited.

First scope shot is MOT with no Load on Secondary
Second scope shot is MOT with Neon Bulb Load on Secondary
Third scope shot is MOT with Secondary Shorted

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on September 27, 2011, 12:05:32 AM
Hey Luc

Good show.  ;]   Seems like the freq is high for 20h.  Maybe try a 1uf or .5uf cap across the sec to lower the freq.  Marius and I have seen more power out when using a cap in series with a load. Larger cap, lower freq.

Its very cool that the mot works here as many seem to have them, or can be had easily, and can get to work on these ideas. ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 27, 2011, 12:16:55 AM
Hi Gyula,

I had to pickup my Digital Caliper from storage to re-check the diameter of the wire. It is actually 0.50 mm with enamel coating. The DC resistance is correct @ 4.4 Ohms so you should be able to figure out the wire length and approximate amount of turns.

Let me know if something does not look right.

Luc

Well, the 4.4 Ohm coil made from 0.5mm OD copper wire has a wire length of about 49 meter.  This has a better chance to fill onto that core. Using the Mini Ring core calculator, for such sized toroid core 142 turns gives a full single layer coil directly on the surface from the 0.5mm OD wire and alltogether roughly 5 to 5.7 times more layers above the first one could give the 811 turns needed for the 7.5 Henry inductance.
( http://www.dl5swb.de/html/mini_ring_core_calculator.htm )

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 27, 2011, 04:43:28 AM
Hey Luc

Good show.  ;]   Seems like the freq is high for 20h.  Maybe try a 1uf or .5uf cap across the sec to lower the freq.  Marius and I have seen more power out when using a cap in series with a load. Larger cap, lower freq.

Its very cool that the mot works here as many seem to have them, or can be had easily, and can get to work on these ideas. ;]

Mags

Hi Mags,

I actually can get the delayed Lenz effect at 900Hz or even lower using a MOT but when I would change the load on the Secondary like I did in the video demo (no load, Neon bulb then shorted) Lenz would appear in one of the condition if I didn't re-adjust the Frequency. Maybe that's why Overunityguide did not demonstrate a short in his Transformer video. However, I found that at 4.9kHz it had no effect what so ever on the primary with what ever I did to the Secondary, so I decide to used that Frequency to make the video demo simple.

I will be experimenting with capacitors but that will be to get the Primary into Resonance and hopefully at a Frequency the Secondary will have Lenz delay. Should be cool 8) when that happens ;D

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 27, 2011, 04:58:50 AM
Well, the 4.4 Ohm coil made from 0.5mm OD copper wire has a wire length of about 49 meter.  This has a better chance to fill onto that core. Using the Mini Ring core calculator, for such sized toroid core 142 turns gives a full single layer coil directly on the surface from the 0.5mm OD wire and alltogether roughly 5 to 5.7 times more layers above the first one could give the 811 turns needed for the 7.5 Henry inductance.
( http://www.dl5swb.de/html/mini_ring_core_calculator.htm )

Gyula

Thanks Gyula,

that sounds about right now. All I remember is it took a long time to wind that one by hand :P

Thanks for sharing the calculator link

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 27, 2011, 12:15:56 PM
...
...

Hi Luc,

I do not know the answer...
I can only comment a few things. In case of the unloaded / loaded (lamp) tests, there is a few degree phase shift (10-15Â°) happening between the input voltage and current, while in the shorted / unshorted secondary tests the phase shift increases to 80-85Â° between the input voltage and current. The amplitudes of the current and voltage change but a very little or quasi nothing as you also noticed in the video. This is what the scopeshots show.
One problem is that the core material is probably a normal laminated core designed for the 50 / 60 Hz mains frequency and its behavior at 4-5 kHz range is rather questionable (thinking of core losses that may influence the whole transformer behavior, phase shifts etc).
I assume this core 'problem' (at least I consider it as a negative factor) would not manifest too much in case of your toroidal core with the 7.5H coil on it, maybe it would be worth testing it at even higher frequencies. Then we shall see... though it might be still unprobable I can give you a correct answer to your above question...

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 27, 2011, 10:33:16 PM
First scope shot is MOT with no Load on Secondary
Second scope shot is MOT with Neon Bulb Load on Secondary
Third scope shot is MOT with Secondary Shorted

@gotoluc
That is Great. 8.82V on No Load conditions and 9.45V while Shorting...

Keep up the good work.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Transformer Part 2, the Delayed Lenz Effect with Scope Shots:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on September 28, 2011, 01:45:45 PM
A sincere man / experimenter asking for Help

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8683-bitoroid-transformer-project-platform.html

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nilrehob on September 28, 2011, 08:29:39 PM
Bi-filar wound series connected generator coils increase coil capacitance by 200% or more...

Hi Thane,

Some time ago I did a comparison by using a newly bought inductance-meter and i couldn't see any difference.
Then i tried to do a calculation on the difference on the stored electric energy within a coil, and my conclusion was that a normally wound coil would store more electric energy because of its relation to the square of the voltage and since the voltage difference between the layers are linear in a normal coil and constant in a bifilar coil?
Its obvious that I have to redo some testing and thinking on this stuff.

Maybe You could elaborate on this?

/Hob
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 29, 2011, 03:29:00 AM
A sincere man / experimenter asking for Help
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8683-bitoroid-transformer-project-platform.html
Chet

HEY CHET,

PLEASE DEFINE "SINCERE" - IS THAT A NEW CONCEPT?  :-X

AT ANY RATE I ALREADY SPOKE TO THAT CHAP (PLEASE SEE BELOW).
I THINK HIS PROBLEM IS HIS CORE CHOICE.

CHEERS
T

Dear Rayongerbil,

Really nice work!
Try to focus on just two things at this point;

1)
Getting a NEUTRAL reaction in your Primary when the two Secondaries are placed On-Load. Or even a current drop as Overunityguide has shown.

2)

If you don't have a scope then you can deduce a PF drop if your current drops from No-Load to On-Load.

Also I would try to stick with just AC IN with pure resistive loads at your earlyish stage.
This is the worst case for a Secondary load and should show the most reaction in your Primary if there is any...

BTW if you aren't going to speak can we get annotations at least so we (the viewer) don't have to make assumptions about what is going on?

Cheers
Thane

Subject: BiToroid Replication
Date: 09/27/11

Message: This is my replication of your transformer technology utilizing black iron oxide primary core insulation and er70s mig welding wire cores. Dual 555 pulsewidth modulator, 20ohms into primary and 20ohms on load. The iron oxide is not letting a whole lot through... it seems to need an upgrade.

Primary - 5.3mH, 1.8ohm
Secondaries - 4.2mH, 2.1ohm

Secondary coils connected in parallel onto fullwave bridge with 470uf el capacitor.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 29, 2011, 03:49:32 AM
Hi Thane,

Some time ago I did a comparison by using a newly bought inductance-meter and i couldn't see any difference.Its obvious that I have to redo some testing and thinking on this stuff.
Maybe You could elaborate on this?

/Hob

DEAR HOB,

RULE #1 - DON'T THINK!

RULE #2 - DON'T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS, PRE-CALCULATIONS, HYPOTHESISING
THIS WILL ONLY SEND YOU DOWN THE WRONG PATH.

RULE #3 - JUST DO...
BASE EVERYTHING ON EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE - STUFF YOU CAN SEE RIGHT BEFORE YOUR EYES.
LET THE MATH AND METERING SORT ITSELF OUT LATER ON.

WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THIS. THE COILS IN THIS PUPPY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_wleUlcMK0 USES 3 OHM COILS AND THEY BEGIN TO CAUSE ACCELERATION AT ABOUT 500 RPM WHEN SHORTED.

WHEN I STARTED OUT WE USED COILS JUST LIKE OVERUNITY USES BIG ASS 150 - 300 OHMERS. BUT THEY WERE NOT REALISTIC AT PRODUCING POWER - NOW WE SACRIFICE A LITTLE ACCELERATION FOR MORE ELECTRICAL POWER FOR THE "REAL" WORLD.

RULE #4 DON'T GO INTO THE BOARDS AGAINST A SWEDE!  :P

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 29, 2011, 09:25:53 AM
Hi Thane,
Some time ago I did a comparison by using a newly bought inductance-meter and i couldn't see any difference.Its obvious that I have to redo some testing and thinking on this stuff.
Maybe You could elaborate on this?
/Hob

In this document you will find: a Special Case of Voltage Gain in Bi-Filar coils, which shows the differences between only measuring the inductance and then calculate the voltage gain and between hooking up the same coil to a good Network Analyzer... It shows a gain of 929.3% !

So nilrehob please have a look at the following document, and forget your LCR metered values!

http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/Gruz/forum_matrix.ru/5/VOLTGN.pdf

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nilrehob on September 29, 2011, 09:42:00 AM
Thane & Overunityguide,
Thanks, I'll look into it agan, different angle this time!

/Hob
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 29, 2011, 03:46:42 PM
Thane & Overunityguide,
Thanks, I'll look into it agan, different angle this time!

/Hob

Nilrehob,

Another thing to keep in mind is how to actually connect a bifilar coil.
This can be done in a few different ways.
For maximum capacity one should use the 'tesla coil way'.
I described this elsewhere : http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11009.75 , reply #88
You can see the estimated increase in capacitance is hugely dependant on the way a bifilar coil is actually 'wired', especially when there is a significant number of windings.

p.s. this is not meant as a pancake coil only. It is applicable for any wired coil.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nilrehob on September 29, 2011, 04:43:58 PM
Nilrehob,

Another thing to keep in mind is how to actually connect a bifilar coil.
This can be done in a few different ways.
For maximum capacity one should use the 'tesla coil way'.
I described this elsewhere : http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11009.75 , reply #88
You can see the estimated increase in capacitance is hugely dependant on the way a bifilar coil is actually 'wired', especially when there is a significant number of windings.

p.s. this is not meant as a pancake coil only. It is applicable for any wired coil.

Thats the way I've done my bifilars as well,
the only way I haven't done yet is a stack of pancake coils (bifilar or not).
The best performing coils that I have done so far is the NEATLY wound coil,
with this I mean each layer perfect without bumps and crossing.
But i will look into it again.
Thanks.

/Hob
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on September 29, 2011, 06:02:58 PM
I've upped a video of acceleration-under-load rather than just short-circuit.

The rotor speed rises by only a few Hz, and the milliamps only go down by a few but the effect is there and will be amplified with higher impedance coils.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 29, 2011, 07:59:18 PM
Hi everyone,

here is an update on the Delayed Lenz effect in the MOT.

I did some test that give good results by using a Capacitor in Parallel on the Primary of the Transformer.

Please note at one point in the video I say the Primary of the Secondary. I meant to say Primary of the Transformer. This kind of thing happens when I'm doing many things at the same time (shooting video, explaining and thinking of the next thing to do for the test)

I attached the scope shots of the two different Frequencies used.

Green waveform is Current (Voltage across the 1 Ohm Resistor) and Yellow waveform is input Voltage.

First shot is the Transformer @ 2.45kHz no Load or Capacitor
Second shot is the Transformer @ 2.45kHz with Load and .39uf Capacitor in Parallel with Primary
Third shot is the Transformer @ 578Hz no load or Capacitor
Forth shot is the Transformer @ 578Hz with Load and 6.8uf Capacitor in Parallel with Primary

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 29, 2011, 08:25:19 PM
THIS IS AWESOME LUC!

IS THE YELLOW SINE WAVE THE PRIMARY VOLTAGE?
BECAUSE IF IT IS THEN YOU ARE SHIFTING TO POWER FACTOR FROM POSITIVE TO NEGATIVE PRETTY MUCH AT WILL...

AT SOME POINT THE POWER FACTOR IS ZERO WHICH MEANS THE POWER TO THE PRIMATY IS ZERO.
IF THIS IS TRUE THEN YOUR EFFICIENCY IS INFINITE DUDE!

AT YOUR "LOW" CURRENT LEVELS THE POWER FACTOR IS 1 MEANING THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE ARE BOTH IN PHASE.

BUT THEN IN THE VIDEO YOU SHOW THE POWER FACTOR GOING TO ZERO AND THEN NEGATIVE!

IF THE POWER FACTOR IS NEGATIVE YOUR TRANSFORMER IS POWERING THE LOAD BUT ALSO SENDING POWER TO THE GRID... DUDE!  :D

THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY COMPUTER SIMULATION AND ON THE ACTUAL OU BiTT (AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY),

WHAT IS REALLY COOL IS HOW YOU CAN SHIFT IT LIKE THAT.

PLEASE CHECK TO SEE IF THE YELLOW SINE WAVE IS ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO THE PRIMARY WITH THE GREEN ACROSS A RESISTOR.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 29, 2011, 10:35:45 PM
THIS IS AWESOME LUC!

IS THE YELLOW SINE WAVE THE PRIMARY VOLTAGE?
BECAUSE IF IT IS THEN YOU ARE SHIFTING TO POWER FACTOR FROM POSITIVE TO NEGATIVE PRETTY MUCH AT WILL...

AT SOME POINT THE POWER FACTOR IS ZERO WHICH MEANS THE POWER TO THE PRIMATY IS ZERO.
IF THIS IS TRUE THEN YOUR EFFICIENCY IS INFINITE DUDE!

AT YOUR "LOW" CURRENT LEVELS THE POWER FACTOR IS 1 MEANING THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE ARE BOTH IN PHASE.

BUT THEN IN THE VIDEO YOU SHOW THE POWER FACTOR GOING TO ZERO AND THEN NEGATIVE!

IF THE POWER FACTOR IS NEGATIVE YOUR TRANSFORMER IS POWERING THE LOAD BUT ALSO SENDING POWER TO THE GRID... DUDE!  :D

THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY COMPUTER SIMULATION AND ON THE ACTUAL OU BiTT (AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY),

WHAT IS REALLY COOL IS HOW YOU CAN SHIFT IT LIKE THAT.

PLEASE CHECK TO SEE IF THE YELLOW SINE WAVE IS ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO THE PRIMARY WITH THE GREEN ACROSS A RESISTOR.

CHEERS
T

Thane, I was drawing the same conclusion at first glance, but.....
to be dead sure, we need the total primary current, while the primary current that Luc is showing is only the current that is going through the primary coil and not the current through the parallel capacitor, at least that is what I observe from it.
The current through the capacitor should be added as well.

So, Luc can you check whether you connected the parallel capacitor before or after the serial resistor?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 29, 2011, 10:38:43 PM
HEY LUC,

YOU HAVE A RESONANT CIRCUIT THERE...  ;)
I STILL WONDER IF THIS (AND OVERUNITYGUIDE'S) TRANSFORMER DELAYED LENZ IS ACTUALLY A CORE HYSTERISIS DELAYED EFFECT OR A BIT OF BOTH?

CHEERS
T

Parallel LC circuit Resonance

Here a coil (L) and capacitor (C) are connected in parallel with an AC power supply. Let R be the internal resistance of the coil. When XL equals XC, the reactive branch currents are equal and opposite. Hence they cancel out each other to give minimum current in the main line. Since total current is minimum, in this state the total impedance is maximum.Resonant frequency given by:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Shadesz on September 29, 2011, 10:52:06 PM
Thanks for the video gotluc. :) I have a question though, did the circuit act differently if you shorted it vs using the led. The reason I ask is, don't led's act as diodes? This wouldn't be the same as a short circuit. Now back to watching the video..

Also, you keep saying current changes when it is the voltage isn't it?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 29, 2011, 10:56:07 PM
Thane, I was drawing the same conclusion at first glance, but.....
to be dead sure, we need the total primary current, while the primary current that Luc is showing is only the current that is going through the primary coil and not the current through the parallel capacitor, at least that is what I observe from it.
The current through the capacitor should be added as well.

So, Luc can you check whether you connected the parallel capacitor before or after the serial resistor?

MY GUESS IS THE SHUNT RESISTOR IS CONNECTED IN SERIES WITH THE TANK CIRCUIT EITHER WAY THOUGH - BEFORE OR AFTER THE CURRENT THROUGH THE SHUNT IS THE TOTAL CURRENT UNLESS MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS ARE WRONG...?

OH WAIT THEY ARE!  :-\

AT ANY RATE MY POINT IS THE CURRENT MAGNITUDE IS IRRELIVANT IF THE POWER FACTOR IS ZERO.

WHAT IS REALLY OF VALUE (TO ME AT LEAST) IS SHIFTING TO PHASE ANGLE AROUND WILLY NILLY LIKE THAT.

LUC, PERHAPS I OUGHT TO COME OVER AND CHECK IT OUT CAN YOU DOCK YOUR BOAT IN CANADA OR ARE THE MIB'S STILL AFTER YOU?

CHEERS
T

BTW A LED IS ESSENTIALLY A SHORT CIRCUIT AND LUC ESTABLISHES THIS IN HIS VID.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 29, 2011, 11:14:02 PM
Folks,

Luc connected the tuning cap(s) directly in parallel with the primary coil and the series 1 Ohm is placed outside of this parallel circuit, it is not included in it. It means that the current is at its minimum value as is shown when there is resonance (current and voltage gets in phase) while inside a parallel LC circuit the reactive current is at its maximum when tuned to resonance.
The current we see in the video is at its minimum at resonance because the parallel circuit's resonant impedance increases to a maximum value, this is what establishes the minimal current then.

Regarding the LED as a load? it is a diode and gives a near shorting effect in every second half period of the AC wave whenever the LED senses a forward bias from the AC amplitude.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on September 30, 2011, 01:18:44 AM
BUMP ME !

Sorry to overlap gotoluc's post (i have always admired your videos, in fact i think that was why i joined OU.com) but i just attached a load and got an accelerated rotor with less current draw.

Does that mean anything to anyone or am i overstating the importance of my little experiment ?

I don't have a scope (well, i have a poor maa's soundcard scope just for frequency measurements) so i can't comment on luc's results.

But i would greatly appreciate knowledgeable comments on my results.

BTW Thane, i am DeepCut66 who sent you a video today.

This is all my data so far :

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1130.0

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 30, 2011, 01:59:05 AM
YA BABY!
WAY TO GO DC.

ALSO YOU NEED TO SWITCH TO BI-FILAR WINDINGS.  8)

CHEERS
T

Progress of my experiments with the effect of acceleration-under-load, an effect discovered by Thane C Heins.

Thane's youtube channel is here :

To test for the effect i first tried to get acceleration under short-circuit. This was using a typical pulse-motor, using the standard SSG circuit to power the bifilar drive coil which pulses the magnets and turns the rotor. The magnets on the rotor then induce power into the generator coil, which has a masonry-anchor-shield bolt as it's core.

The coils properties :

L = 15.3 mH
R = 8 Ohms

Here is a picture of that setup :

http://www.mediafire.com/?b5thxa448at0dz6

At each stage of the test, the input current and frequency of the rotor were noted when the gen coil was open.

The gen coil was then shorted and the input current and rotor frequency were noted again.

The results of that test are here :

http://www.mediafire.com/?p4mw890t8unwc75

I then performed the same test using a diametrically magnetised magnet as a rotor, the advantages of which are that magnets don't come flying off and higher frequencies are easily achieved.

Here is a picture of that setup :

http://www.mediafire.com/?9pj521hbmk0cm4e

The results of that test are here :

http://www.mediafire.com/?v0hlb9ellahmu50

I then wound a new coil :

L : 250 mH
R : 120 Ohms

I performed the same test on the new coil with the standard rotor setup (not the diametric), the results of which are here :

http://www.mediafire.com/?yx6rttz533a6x7n

I then wanted to see what happened when using an actual load rather than a short-circuit, with the new coil.

I tested for this using the diametric setup, as the magnet has more flux and much higher RPM's therefore better inductive power.

I attached a miniature light bulb as a load. The result was that the light shone brightly while the rotor sped up and the current draw went down.

The rotor only sped up by a few Hz and the input current dropped by only a few mA but the effect is there.

Here is a video of that test :

Although i have only tested two coils so far, it seems that a higher impedance coil exhibits a stronger effect and can support a higher load.

The first coil would drag the rotor with only a 15 Ohm load, whereas the new coil accelerates the rotor with loads up to 620 Ohms, anything higher than that and rotor drag starts.

Peterae had me do some simple, fixed-RPM tests with the first coil, these were the results :

CASE 1 - Rotor with no gen coil.

V = 8 VDC
I = .290 A
P = 2.32 W

CASE 2 - Rotor with gen coil, unshorted.

V = 9.8 VDC
I = .365 A
P = 3.577 W

CASE 3 - Rotor with gen coil, shorted.

V = 9.1 VDC
I = .336 A
P = 3.0576

Obviously the core introduces drag, while the effect introduces acceleration.

I am hoping that, with a higher impedance coil, the net effect will be acceleration.

The next step is to wind a higher impedance coil and do load-testing to confirm that the higher impedance does amplify the effect and can support a higher load.

If that is confirmed, the next step is to wind multiple coils and do further load-testing.

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 30, 2011, 02:04:54 AM
LOOK WHO'S WATCHING THIS SUBJECT... 8)

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on September 30, 2011, 02:09:23 AM
Oh god thanks Thane !

I've posted this on four forums with no effing reply ! (sorry, us brits like to swear when we're frustrated).

The drive circuitry for the coil that pushes the magnet is the standard SSG, the magnet spins, induces a voltage into the trigger wire which gets the transistor to pull power from the PSU which pushes the magnet around etc ...

I know literally nothing about electronics, i just learn what i need to know in order to build things but i assume that you know what the standard Bedini SSG circuit is. It's what Robert Adams referred to as an inductive driver.

Funny you should mention bifilar coils, because, the drive coil being bifilar, even when i spin that diametrically-magnetised magnet on it's own with no gen coil, for the first 50% of it's acceleration the current draw goes up, as you would expect as the frequency rises and more pulses are delivered, but for the last 50%, on it's way to maximum RPM, the current draw drops hugely, so even the drive coil is experiencing this effect.

As i said, i am an electronics noob, but from the little i understand, this is an amazing effect and it's the only one i've seen succesfully replicated.

I have some mild steel round bar on order so i can try the same effect on a simple transformer.

I'm confused as to why not a lot of people seem to be replicating this, with a diametric magnet it's not an expensive setup.

Add a load and get more RPM with less current draw !!! Please peeps give it a go !

Also, when you say bifilar, do you mean two seperate windings or one loop winding ?

Sorry but bifilar seems to have as many definitions as B/CEMF so i like to be clear (because i know nothing !).

All the best,

Gary.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 30, 2011, 04:34:52 AM
Oh god thanks Thane !

I've posted this on four forums with no effing reply ! (sorry, us brits like to swear when we're frustrated).

Also, when you say bifilar, do you mean two separate windings or one loop winding ?

Sorry but bifilar seems to have as many definitions as B/CEMF so i like to be clear (because i know nothing !).

All the best,

Gary.

DO YOU MEAN GARY THE "SLEEP TALKING MAN" GARY? http://sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com/

Sept 26 2011
"Okay, everybody! Anyone who hasn't eaten, put their arms in the air!... That's not YOUR arm! Stupid fucking zombies."

Sept 24 2011
"I need a human pyramid. And it's got to be a naked human pyramid. No other kind will do."

Sept 23 2011
"Why the fuck do you have to keep acting like an arsehole? You must have Imitation Bowel Syndrome."

BI-FILAR = TWO WIRES WOUND SIMULTANEOUSLY IN PARALLEL AND SERIES CONNECTED.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 05:44:35 AM
THIS IS AWESOME LUC!

IS THE YELLOW SINE WAVE THE PRIMARY VOLTAGE?
BECAUSE IF IT IS THEN YOU ARE SHIFTING TO POWER FACTOR FROM POSITIVE TO NEGATIVE PRETTY MUCH AT WILL...

AT SOME POINT THE POWER FACTOR IS ZERO WHICH MEANS THE POWER TO THE PRIMATY IS ZERO.
IF THIS IS TRUE THEN YOUR EFFICIENCY IS INFINITE DUDE!

AT YOUR "LOW" CURRENT LEVELS THE POWER FACTOR IS 1 MEANING THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE ARE BOTH IN PHASE.

BUT THEN IN THE VIDEO YOU SHOW THE POWER FACTOR GOING TO ZERO AND THEN NEGATIVE!

IF THE POWER FACTOR IS NEGATIVE YOUR TRANSFORMER IS POWERING THE LOAD BUT ALSO SENDING POWER TO THE GRID... DUDE!  :D

THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED BY COMPUTER SIMULATION AND ON THE ACTUAL OU BiTT (AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY),

WHAT IS REALLY COOL IS HOW YOU CAN SHIFT IT LIKE THAT.

PLEASE CHECK TO SEE IF THE YELLOW SINE WAVE IS ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO THE PRIMARY WITH THE GREEN ACROSS A RESISTOR.

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane,

sorry for the delay in reply. I went to work after I posted this and got back in late.

Yes correct... THE YELLOW SINE WAVE IS CONNECTED TO THE PRIMARY WITH THE GREEN ACROSS A 1 OHM RESISTOR.

Tomorrow I'm going to my storage to pickup some large AC Capacitors. Going to see how far down I can drop the Frequency. It would be nice if I can get it down to 60Hz.

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 05:51:56 AM
Thane, I was drawing the same conclusion at first glance, but.....
to be dead sure, we need the total primary current, while the primary current that Luc is showing is only the current that is going through the primary coil and not the current through the parallel capacitor, at least that is what I observe from it.
The current through the capacitor should be added as well.

So, Luc can you check whether you connected the parallel capacitor before or after the serial resistor?

Hi teslaalset,

the Capacitor is connected after the series Resistor, directly in Parallel at the Primary Coil.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 06:14:08 AM
Thanks for the video gotluc. :) I have a question though, did the circuit act differently if you shorted it vs using the led. The reason I ask is, don't led's act as diodes? This wouldn't be the same as a short circuit. Now back to watching the video..

Also, you keep saying current changes when it is the voltage isn't it?

The results are the same if I short the Secondary.

Technically the Green waveform is a Probe measuring the Voltage across a 1 Ohm Resistor that is connected in Series on the Ground of the Signal Generator lead. The Yellow waveform is a Probe measuring the voltage between the Hot lead of the SG and the Ground of the SG. All probe Grounds are connected together on the same side of the resistor which is closest to the SG ground.

From what I understand when a Dual trace Scope is connected in this configuration the Probe connected between the Resistor is a representation of Current being consumed. Also, one can observe Phase Shift.

Please correct me if I am not doing this correctly or miss understanding something.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on September 30, 2011, 08:24:54 AM
Tomorrow I'm going to my storage to pickup some large AC Capacitors. Going to see how far down I can drop the Frequency. It would be nice if I can get it down to 60Hz.

@gotoluc, Great work so far. My compliments, of course when there is only reactive power going to a primary coil you can power factor correct this by putting a parallel capacitor to your primary. But for now please don't forget that when you try to lower your frequency to the 60 Hz you mentioned that you will kill the desired Delayed Lenz effect at your secondary side. So as a result of this I would expect that you cannot run your load purely reactive again. Because if the only important thing to this was primary power factor correction related, than every manufacturer of microwave oven transformers would be doing this.

So my advice is to not go below a certain frequency... lets say not below 700 Hz or something like that...

Please see my videos in where I get totally different results for 200 Hz and for 950 Hz:

Keep up the good work, and With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 30, 2011, 08:50:14 AM
Regarding the LED as a load? it is a diode and gives a near shorting effect in every second half period of the AC wave whenever the LED senses a forward bias from the AC amplitude.

I guess it is a single LED, so, indeed it kind of shorts one half of the cycle.
Because it's shown in resonance, it doesn't show a clear distorted current waveshape (a not symmetric sinus).
Would be interesting to see what happens if there are 2 anti-parallel connected LED's are applied, so both sinus halves periods are performing shorting.
I would expect a more explicit phase shift in that case.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 30, 2011, 11:28:20 AM
I guess it is a single LED, so, indeed it kind of shorts one half of the cycle.
Because it's shown in resonance, it doesn't show a clear distorted current waveshape (a not symmetric sinus).

Would be interesting to see what happens if there are 2 anti-parallel connected LED's are applied, so both sinus halves periods are performing shorting.
I would expect a more explicit phase shift in that case.

Well, I think we have to consider how good the shorting effect is the LED(s) represents with respect to the effect of a real short like a piece of wire?

The green LED needs about 2V forward voltage and assuming a 15mA current for the brightness in Luc's video, this LED represents a loading resistor of 2V/0.015A=133 Ohm, very far from a short circuit case.
By putting two LEDs anti-parallel then both half waves of a cycle would be symmetricall loaded (i.e. clamped) by the LEDs indeed but their loading effect still would be in the one to two hundred Ohm range.

This way I think the phase shift would not change too much either in this respect. So a heavier load (like a few watt incandescent light bulb or even  a few Ohm resistor may represent) is to be used.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 30, 2011, 11:54:08 AM
Well, I think we have to consider how good the shorting effect is the LED(s) represents with respect to the effect of a real short like a piece of wire?

The green LED needs about 2V forward voltage and assuming a 15mA current for the brightness in Luc's video, this LED represents a loading resistor of 2V/0.015A=133 Ohm, very far from a short circuit case.

I am not sure this is true.
The shorting resistance will be  delta VLED / delta ILED in my view, looking at common diode I/U characteristics. Normally this is a quite steep curve.

Attached an example of a fairly common LED.
Going to the U/I curve the delta U/ Delta I is around 0.2/0.035 => approx. 6 Ohms

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: woopy on September 30, 2011, 02:45:05 PM
Hi all

Special thank's to Gotoluc for his experiment.

So i tried a replication and it seems to work very well.

I wonder if ,( as it has already been proposed by a user i don't remember the name sorry), we placed an amplificator (for example a HI FI ampli) between the signal generator and the Mot if we could increase the effect and test more power. What do you think ? Any idea Thane ?

Thank's to all for sharing this very interesting stuff.

Good luck at all

Laurent

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 03:37:06 PM
please don't forget that when you try to lower your frequency to the 60 Hz you mentioned that you will kill the desired Delayed Lenz effect at your secondary side. So as a result of this I would expect that you cannot run your load purely reactive again. Because if the only important thing to this was primary power factor correction related, than every manufacturer of microwave oven transformers would be doing this.

Hi Overunityguide,

I was also thinking like you on lowering the Frequency would eventually null the effect. However, last night I paralleled all the AC Capacitors I have available on my boat and it makes a 37.4uF value.

Using this value I was able to drop the Frequency down to 250Hz and to my surprise the effect is still there and the bonus is the Secondary is now delivering about twice the Current at this lower Frequency. I connected 2 LED's in Parallel and each are in Reverse polarity to each other so both sides of the Sine Wave gets Shorted.

Below are the scope shots:

First Shot is @ 250Hz no Load on Secondary and no Capacitor on Primary (idle transformer)

Second Shot is @ 250Hz with Dual LED as Load and 37.4uf Capacitor on Primary

Later today I will get my larger AC Capacitors out from the storage to further drop the Frequency.

Stay tuned ;D

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 03:44:31 PM
I guess it is a single LED, so, indeed it kind of shorts one half of the cycle.
Because it's shown in resonance, it doesn't show a clear distorted current waveshape (a not symmetric sinus).
Would be interesting to see what happens if there are 2 anti-parallel connected LED's are applied, so both sinus halves periods are performing shorting.
I would expect a more explicit phase shift in that case.

Hi teslaalset,

I thought of doing this last night so there is now 2 anti-parallel connected LED's.

Results are the same and since I dropped the Frequency down to 250Hz the current is double so both LED's are fully lit.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 30, 2011, 03:46:11 PM
I am not sure this is true.
The shorting resistance will be  delta VLED / delta ILED in my view, looking at common diode I/U characteristics. Normally this is a quite steep curve.

Attached an example of a fairly common LED.
Going to the U/I curve the delta U/ Delta I is around 0.2/0.035 => approx. 6 Ohms

hi teslaalset,

Yes, you are correct in that I should have considered dynamic resistance for the LED just like it were a Zener diode and I agree that the loading effect corresponds to a non-linearly changing resistor with an average r=6 Ohm value in the case you picked from the data sheet graph.
But still I think we should not omit the fact that the AC sine wave amplitude coming from the secondary cannot drive any current through the LED whenever the instanteneus voltage amplitude is lower than or opposite to the forward voltage of the LED.  So considering one AC cycle and only one LED  (Luc used only one), the loading effect from a LED comes as a resistor-change from a few Ohms to a near open circuit during a certain part within one half cycle of a full cycle.  In case of two anti-parallel LEDs the loading effect widens with a certain part within the other half cycle and thus current cannot flow at and near to the zero crossings till the voltage amplitude reaches near  +/- 2V or whatever the forward bias need for the LEDs.

And even with as small dynamic resistance as a LED may manifest you still have to consider the microwave transformer secondary coil copper resistance in Luc's setup as being much higher than the 6 Ohm, so the ruling effective resistance to consider for phase shifting when talking about shorts is that of the secondary coil, having a 80-100 Ohm DC resistance for a oven transformer secondary.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 30, 2011, 04:03:10 PM
FYI TO ALL,

PLEASE WRITE TO THE MEDAI (TYLER HAMILTON & OTHER EMAILS BELOW) TO TRY TO HELP GET THEM TO ATTEND THE DEMOS?  :-\

THANKS & CHEERS
Thane

PS, THE ATTACHED DEMO PHOTOS WERE FOR THE US ARMY AND ELECTRON ENERGY CORPORATION LAST SUMMER IN PA.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: University of Toronto Professors Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology Demonstration Invitation
From: <thaneh@potentialdifference.ca>
Date: Fri, September 30, 2011 9:42 am
To: robmac@yorku.ca, jackel@yorku.ca, lehn@ecf.utoronto.ca,
chair@physics.utoronto.ca
Cc: tyler@cleanbreak.ca, jackiesyrett@rogers.com, editor@thevarsity.ca,
scott.anderson@utoronto.ca, stacey.gibson@utoronto.ca, city@thestar.ca,
tepeditors@thestar.ca, wheels@thestar.ca

Hello University of Toronto Professors,

My name is Thane Heins and I am the President of Potential Difference Inc. an Ottawa based energy R&D company. We will be in Toronto this weekend demonstrating our Regenerative Acceleration Generator (ReGenX) Technology and I would like to personally invite all your Physics & Energy Systems Groups students and professors to a live technology demonstration.

I know it is short notice but it's not every day that you get an invitation to view a generator that violates the Law of Conservation of Energy and produces over a million percent more power than a conventional generator under identical conditions.

The ReGenX generator technology is unique because the generator causes acceleration under load rather than deceleration while violating the "Theory of Conservation of Energy" in the process.

The media enjoy manipulating their audience (to sell more advertising) by referring to the technology as a Perpetual Motion Machine which it is not BTW. Tyler Hamilton, formerly of the Toronto Star (now adjunct professor at U of T) and Richard Syrett of the CBC are also invited to attend.

ReGenX technology is simply a generator which creates a complimentary-electromotive force when supplying power to a load rather than a counter-electromotive force as is the conventional generator paradigm. Lab tests at the University of Ottawa by a NRC scientist showed the ReGenX generator producing 1,019,900% more electrical output over the conventional generator under identical operating conditions.

When Dr. Stanley Townsend reviewed the technology he said the following:

"Thane, Your Press Release was most interesting to me as a physicist & an engineer.
The level of technical detail was adequate to tell me that you probably have made a very significant advance
in applied physics & in safely & successfully handling a new source of electric power.
Congratulations!"
~ UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO
Dr. Stanley Townsend, University of Toronto & Former Managing Editor of the Canadian Journal of Physics

We have recently been invited to demonstrate the technology to Chrysler in Detroit and we have a meeting in Toronto this weekend with the largest bicycle manufacturer in India to put the technology into their scooter line for India and North America. Nissan has even broached the subject about having us put a prototype in the Nissan Leaf.

Enclosed is some information on EV Regenerative Acceleration Generator (ReGenX) Technology for your records.

Regenerative Acceleration Generator (ReGenX) Technology represents major breakthrough in EV and HEV generator design by reversing the regenerative braking paradigm. ReGenX Technology now allows all EVs to CONTINUALLY RECHARGE THEIR BATTERIES and may ultimately provide EVs with UNLIMITED RANGE.

Below are a couple of video demonstrations PDI provided for a Michigan based OEMs.

Kind Regards
Thane

Regenerative Braking Reversal Video - University of Ottawa

ReGenX generator provides 1,019,900% more electrical output over the conventional generator under identical operating conditions.
NRC scientist test data attached.

BIONX Electric Vehicle Test Video - University of Ottawa

ReGenX generator reverses regenerative braking paradigm and accelerates bike motor while delivering 15+ Watts to a load.

CHRYSLER ELECTRIFIED POWERTRAINS

- The technology looks really interesting and is revolutionary. I would like to learn more about the technology. Is it possible to organize a demo or a lecture in the USA?"

GENERAL MOTORS

- "This sounds interesting.  I'd like you to connect with our Fuel Economy Learning Program manager, to schedule a time for you to come in
and share the technology with us.   We need to know more about the Physics behind it".

"I have talked with my colleagues in GM US about your solution for vehicles. So, we would like more details about fuel economy and emissions regarding it
Do you have any company that use this approach in vehicles? I am open for discussion".

MERCEDES-BENZ

- "It would be fitting for the inventor of the automobile to be first with your revolutionary technology and for me to play a role in that would be awesome!"

NISSAN Japan

- "Thanks for providing technical information. If the effect of your invention is really true, I am sure there will be strong needs in the market.

How can you prove this on an actual electric vehicle, for example by making a prototype using our Nissan Leaf?

NEIL YOUNG

- "We would like to find a way to use your technology in our LincVolt Project".

EV WORLD
Mike Brace, EV World Tech Editor

- "When we finally understand what Thane Heins has discovered, we likely will have to rewrite the laws of electromagnetism." http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1890

NASA
Erik Clark NASA-Goddard Space Flight Center

- "The magnetics lab here at Goddard expressed some interest in having you come down to do a colloquium"

US AIR FORCE
Omar Mendoza, Program Manager Energy & Environmental Quality Air Force Research Laboratory Wright Patterson

- "We really are more interested in developing its use and application for military power requirements"

Gilles Leclerc, Canadian Space Agency Space Technologies

Mike Elwood, Chairman Electric Mobility Canada and Vice President of Azure Dynamics

"This is a freakin game changer!"

Al Cormier, Executive Director Electric Mobility Canada

- "I am writing to ask you to submit what you feel would be an appropriate document to describe your regenerative acceleration technology for circulation to our Committee members"

OTTAWA UNIVERSITY
Dr. Habash, University of Ottawa

- "Of course it accelerates... this represents several new chapters in physics, that is why we are consulting MIT"

UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO
Dr. Stanley Townsend, University of Toronto & Former Managing Editor of the Canadian Journal of Physics

- "Thane, Your Press Release was most interesting to me as a physicist & an engineer.
The level of technical detail was adequate to tell me that you probably have made a very significant advance
in applied physics & in safely & successfully handling a new source of electric power.
Congratulations!"

MIT
Dr. Marcus Zahn

- "It works and it is not something I would have expected, now I am just trying to figure it out"

Dr. Evstigneev N.M., Institute for System Analysis, Russian Academy of Science

- " A number of your experiments are not lying in the field of Maxwellian electrodynamics"

UNIVERSITY OF CONCORDIA
Professor Joseph Shin, Concordia University

- "This is absolutely fascinating stuff you are doing"

ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE
Mike Simpson, Transportation Analyst Rocky Mountain Institute

- "You seem to have made an interesting discovery. Our internal physics experts review this information and have determined that it is very interesting work"

PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS OF ONTARIO
Donald Wallace, Executive Director Ontario Centre for Engineering and Public Policy

- "Would you be willing to contribute an article on this technology to the Journal for Engineering and Public Policy?"

- "If possible would like to meet with you to discuss your approach to the Association and of course to get a better feel about the physics behind your invention. I would still like to see what you are doing and perhaps we can include some of your material on our website newsletter?"

PDI Media Press
http://www.mevio.com/episode/293349/fen-110824
http://www.cbc.ca/outoftheirminds/2011/07/26/episode-5---thane-heins/
http://www.cbc.ca/outoftheirminds/2011/08/29/episode-10---what-makes-them-tick/
http://thetechjournal.com/tech-news/major-breakthrough-in-ev-technology-to-recharge-batteries-conitually-with-infinite-range.xhtml
http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1890
http://thefulcrum-research.blogspot.com/2011/01/truly-unbelievable.html
http://keyrecords.com/designers/thanes.html
http://www.physorg.com/news121610315.html
Latest Press Releases By "Potential Difference Inc."

Canadian Energy R & D Company Proves ENERGY (and PEACE) CAN BE CREATED in our Time.
Sep 21, 2011
International Day of Peace 9/21/11 Video Presentation ~ Law of Conservation of Energy is False... Revisions Required.

Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology Confirmed in The Netherlands, Sweden, USA And Canada
Sep 17, 2011
New Electric Vehicle Battery Recharge Technology Being Scientifically Validated by Independent Researchers Worldwide. Has the capacity to eliminate EV roadside recharge requirements and allow immediate EV market integration.

Potential +/ Difference Inc. Invitation (KEGS) Proof Of Concept Electric Vehicle Project
Aug 20, 2011
KINETIC ENERGY GENERATING SYSTEM (KEGS) OBJECTIVE OVERVIEW: To create an electric vehicle which has the capacity to provide motive force in the absence of any external power supply.

Electric Vehicle Range Anxiety Eliminated by New Generator Innovation - PDI VIDEO DEMONSTRATION
Aug 06, 2011
Extended range generator innovation eliminates EV range limitations, lack of performance issues while also reducing battery weight and costs. Free worldwide licensing to accelerate market integration and reduce technology acquisition costs.

UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA - Researched Generator Could Open a 'New Chapter of Physics' for EVs
Jul 29, 2011
PHYSICS, WITH A POLITICAL TWIST. New electric vehicle generator technology reverses regenerative braking paradigm and accelerates EV while recharging batteries. Early tests show more than double range extension over conventional technology.

Why the Law of Conservation of Energy is FALSE and has NEVER Applied in an Electrical System
Jul 26, 2011
How the Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology VIOLATES the "Theory" of Conservation of Energy along with Newton's Third law, Lenz's Law and the Work Energy Principle as Easy as 1, 2, 3.

Is USA Bankruptcy Imminent? - Here's How To Avoid It...
Jul 16, 2011
Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology when employed with wind and solar technologies could easily reduce US energy costs down to NIL while eliminating the need for perpetual and financially crippling oil wars and any foreign oil sources.

Thane C. Heins
President
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
613.256.4684 (cell)
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca
You Tube http://bit.ly/gCRePU
613.795.1602

"How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time
-through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone?"
-- Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 04:04:57 PM
Well, I think we have to consider how good the shorting effect is the LED(s) represents with respect to the effect of a real short like a piece of wire?

The green LED needs about 2V forward voltage and assuming a 15mA current for the brightness in Luc's video, this LED represents a loading resistor of 2V/0.015A=133 Ohm, very far from a short circuit case.
By putting two LEDs anti-parallel then both half waves of a cycle would be symmetricall loaded (i.e. clamped) by the LEDs indeed but their loading effect still would be in the one to two hundred Ohm range.

This way I think the phase shift would not change too much either in this respect. So a heavier load (like a few watt incandescent light bulb or even  a few Ohm resistor may represent) is to be used.

Hi Gyula,

I did this last night. I used a light bulb that the Secondary could not light and the result is the same.

Here is the scope shot with an unlit 12v auto bulb measuring 10 Ohm's as load on Secondary and the next scope shot I moved the Voltage Probe (Yellow) across the bulb.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 04:26:51 PM
Hi all

Special thank's to Gotoluc for his experiment.

So i tried a replication and it seems to work very well.

I wonder if ,( as it has already been proposed by a user i don't remember the name sorry), we placed an amplificator (for example a HI FI ampli) between the signal generator and the Mot if we could increase the effect and test more power. What do you think ? Any idea Thane ?

Thank's to all for sharing this very interesting stuff.

Good luck at all

Laurent

Excellent replication job Laurent ;)

I suspect you are able to drop your Frequency much more with less uf value since you are using a MOT that the Primary is wound for 220VAC compared to me with a Primary made for 120VAC. So your Primary maybe twice the Inductance value as mine.

Find yourself some more AC Capacitors to drop it down to your 50Hz grid Frequency. You are not so far off. You can Parallel as many of them as you need. I have 15 of them now ;D

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 30, 2011, 04:38:40 PM
Just a more practical question that bugs me regarding this MOT experiment:
Why is a single LED surviving in this setup up?
I would expect the voltage at the secondary to be a few KVolt if I look at the difference in inductance between primary and secondary impedance.
Probably due to the high resistance of the secondary winding?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on September 30, 2011, 04:44:00 PM
Hi teslaalset,

I thought of doing this last night so there is now 2 anti-parallel connected LED's.

Results are the same and since I dropped the Frequency down to 250Hz the current is double so both LED's are fully lit.

Luc

Thanks Luc!

I still trying to understand why your results are similar when you change from one LED to two anti-parallel.
I thought is had to deal with average load resistance over one cycle, so 2 LEDs in antiparallel connection would half the load resistance.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 04:48:49 PM
Just a more practical question that bugs me regarding this MOT experiment:
Why is a single LED surviving in this setup up?
I would expect the voltage at the secondary to be a few KVolt if I look at the difference in inductance between primary and secondary impedance.
Probably due to the high resistance of the secondary winding?

Keep in mind that the Input to the Primary is in the 10 to 12 Volts RMS AC range (Signal Generator Output) so the Secondary should also output much less. I would also agree that much power is lost in the High Resistance of the Secondary.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 30, 2011, 05:00:34 PM
Hi all

Special thank's to Gotoluc for his experiment.
So i tried a replication and it seems to work very well.

I wonder if ,( as it has already been proposed by a user i don't remember the name sorry), we placed an amplificator (for example a HI FI ampli) between the signal generator and the Mot if we could increase the effect and test more power. What do you think ? Any idea Thane ?

Thank's to all for sharing this very interesting stuff.

Good luck at all

Laurent

DEAR LAURENT,

GREAT JOB!

CAN YOU REDO YOUR VIDEO BUT EXPAND YOUR SCOPE WINDOW SO WE ONLY SEE 1/2 OF THE SINE WAVE SO WE CAN SEE WHAT THE PHASE SHIFT IS AT 2:23 IN YOUR VIDEO?

ALSO EXPAND THE VOLTS / DIV SO THE LINES ARE STARIGHT UP AND DOWN PLEASE.
I WANT TO SEE IF THE SHORT PRODUCES A 180 DEGREE PHASE SHIFT WITH A ZERO POWER FACTOR SINCE A SHORT IS AN INFINITE PURELY RESISTIVE LOAD?

THEN TRY TO "TUNE" YOUR FREQUENCY TO SEE IF YOU CAN GET 90 DEGREES OUT OF PHASE?

BTW ANYONE MEASURING POWER FACTOR OR PHASE SHIFTS SHOULD ALL BE DOING IT THIS WAY SINCE WE DON'T NEED TO SEE THE TOPS OF THE SINE WAVES.  ;)

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on September 30, 2011, 05:26:21 PM
Hi All,

Some good work going on here. Could you please try a 10ohm power resistor for measuring the current. I've been fooled too many times when measuring output with LEDs.

Hi DeepCut,

That is a great setup and can clearly see the current drop. You're right diametric magnets are the way to go one shaft can hold multiple of them, lets say 6, pulse 2 of them and collect off 4.  ;)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 05:30:29 PM
DEAR LAURENT,

GREAT JOB!

CAN YOU REDO YOUR VIDEO BUT EXPAND YOUR SCOPE WINDOW SO WE ONLY SEE 1/2 OF THE SINE WAVE SO WE CAN SEE WHAT THE PHASE SHIFT IS AT 2:23 IN YOUR VIDEO?

ALSO EXPAND THE VOLTS / DIV SO THE LINES ARE STARIGHT UP AND DOWN PLEASE.
I WANT TO SEE IF THE SHORT PRODUCES A 180 DEGREE PHASE SHIFT WITH A ZERO POWER FACTOR SINCE A SHORT IS AN INFINITE PURELY RESISTIVE LOAD?

THEN TRY TO "TUNE" YOUR FREQUENCY TO SEE IF YOU CAN GET 90 DEGREES OUT OF PHASE?

BTW ANYONE MEASURING POWER FACTOR OR PHASE SHIFTS SHOULD ALL BE DOING IT THIS WAY SINCE WE DON'T NEED TO SEE THE TOPS OF THE SINE WAVES.  ;)

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane,

here are a few more Shots to better see the shift. I tuned to Less current and expanded Volts Division to Max.

First shot is Normal Probe setup on Primary input and Second Shot I Only moved the Voltage probe across the 10 Ohm bulb.

Interesting to see that there is not much Phase Shift on the Primary when the Current is at Minimum but when you see the Second Scope shot with the Voltage Probe connected across the load it is perfect 90 Degrees Shift... or is that 180 Degrees Shift?
Anyways, I think that is what is important!... don't you think?

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 05:44:22 PM
Hi All,

Could you please try a 10ohm power resistor for measuring the current. I've been fooled too many times when measuring output with LEDs.

Hi DreamThinkBuild,

I also tested with a 10 Ohm Resistor and the result is the same.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on September 30, 2011, 06:01:54 PM
Hi Luc,

I see your new post, good job. Thanks for taking the time to share your results.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on September 30, 2011, 06:16:41 PM
Hi Thane,

here are a few more Shots to better see the shift. I tuned to Less current and expended Volts Division to Max.

First shot is Normal Probe setup on Primary input and Second Shot I Only moved the Voltage probe across the 10 Ohm bulb.

OKAY IF YOU MOVED YOUR PROBE TO THE 10 OHM LOAD THEN YOU ARE MEASURING THE CURRENT THROUGH THAT LOAD WHICH IS NOT CORRECT.

Anyways, I think that is what is important!... don't you think?
Luc

EVERYTHING IS IMPORTANT BUT LET'S JUST TRY TO FOCUS ON JUST PHASE SHIFT FOR NOW.

1) PUT YOUR CURRENT PROBE ACROSS THE SHUNT RESISTOR.
2) PUT YOUR VOLTAGE PROBE ACROSS THE PRIMARY.

3) DO WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO (WITH CAPS AND FREQUENCY) TO GET A 90 DEGREE PHASE SHIFT ON LOAD.

5) THEN SHOW ON-LOAD (WITH 90 DEGREE PHASE SHIFT) IE ZERO POWER FACTOR!  8)

6) IF YOU CAN DO #5 WITH REAL POWER THROUGH YOUR LOAD THEN ALL THE POWER IN THE PRIMARY IS REACTIVE IE NO REAL POWER = 0.0 WATTS.

7) EFFICIENCY WOULD EQUAL INFINITY IF YOUR PRIMARY HAD ZERO DC RESISTANCE BUT BECAUSE IT DOES DOES NOT THE HEAT DISSIPATION IS:

I^2 x Rdc

8) NOW IF SOMEONE (ELSE) IS ABLE TO SHOW A NEGATIVE POWER FACTOR I.E. POWER BEING SENT BACK TO THE GRID THEN WE HAVE A WHOLE NEW BALL GAME HERE!  :D

ATTACHED IS THE TEST DATA FROM DR. FUSINA OF DEFENSE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT CANADA WHO CAME TO OTTAWA UNIVERSITY TO TEST THE BiTT.

HE FREAKED OUT WHEN HE SAW 0.0 POWER FACTOR SO I TOLD HIM TO APPLY A FUDGE FACTOR - WHICH HE DID.

WE HAVE SINCE FOUND OUT THAT THE PF CAN BE NEGATIVE AND I AM HOPING YOU GUYS CAN ALSO VERIFY THAT?

THIS MIGHT HELP ME GET THAT "LAZY" ENGINEER AT PHILLIPS TO MOVE HIS ASS?

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: woopy on September 30, 2011, 06:28:54 PM
Hi Luc and Thane

I have redo the video to better see the phase shift.

Hope this is what Thane suggested. But my sig gen is very basic and i cannot tune progressively, so it  is very difficult to to get very fine results. So i tested 2 frequency to get with 150 Hz the max phase shift (something less than 180 degree ) and to get 90 degree with 190 Hz  (the cap value is always 12 micro F).

hope this helps

Laurent
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on September 30, 2011, 06:58:18 PM

OKAY IF YOU MOVED YOUR PROBE TO THE 10 OHM LOAD THEN YOU ARE MEASURING THE CURRENT THROUGH THAT LOAD WHICH IS NOT CORRECT.

You are not understanding what I'm doing. Like I said above the First shot is done like you say:
1) PUT YOUR CURRENT PROBE ACROSS THE SHUNT RESISTOR.
2) PUT YOUR VOLTAGE PROBE ACROSS THE PRIMARY.

3) DO WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO (WITH CAPS AND FREQUENCY) TO GET A 90 DEGREE PHASE SHIFT ON LOAD.

As I said above, I tuned to minimum Current draw on the Primary and not to 90 Degrees Phase Shift. I can easily tune to 90 Degrees Phase Shift (ON PRIMARY) but the Current draw will go up. So we have to wonder why is this happening in a MOT?... maybe the Primary does not need to be at 90 Degrees Phase Shift for the Secondary LOAD to not effect it if we are working with a Possible LENZ DELAY.

This is what made me think to probe the Secondary with the Voltage Probe but leaving the current Probe on the Primary and use the Primary's Current Phase Reference and compare it's Phase Reference with the Secondary Phase.

As we can see from the Second Scope Shot they are Exactly 90 Degrees out Phase with each other. So my thought is, who knows what is going on in a MOT under these conditions. if the Secondary is 90 Degrees out of Phase when the Current at the Primary is at MINIMUM then maybe this is where this Puppy is Happy.

Just my way of thinking. I know it is not conventional EE but I don't care as long as the load on the Secondary is not reflected on the Primary I'm Happy ;D

Luc

PS I'll be out for a while
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 30, 2011, 07:49:59 PM
Just a more practical question that bugs me regarding this MOT experiment:
Why is a single LED surviving in this setup up?
I would expect the voltage at the secondary to be a few KVolt if I look at the difference in inductance between primary and secondary impedance.
Probably due to the high resistance of the secondary winding?

Yes I think also the DC resistance  (86 Ohm or so in Luc's case) serves also as current limiting 'bias' resistor for the LED.
We can estimate how big the unloaded secondary voltage could be in its unloaded case.  Consider when normal input is designed 120V AC rms primary input and about 2000V rms secondary output, the ratio is 16.6  so for a 10V rms input the open voltage should be around 166V.
Then there is a voltage divider created whenever you connect a load to the secondary: the upper member of the divider is the coil DC resistance, 86 Ohm and the lower member of the divider is the load itself, when this is a LED or anti-parallel LEDs their dynamic AC resistance can be under 10 Ohm as you pointed out, so the significant part of the 166V is dissipated in the coil resistance and the rest can go only to the load.

This latter is an answer also to Luc why he did not see any light from the 12V car bulb: simply the divided voltage is not enough to light it. When I suggested to Luc to use low value resistors as loads I forgot to consider the rather high secondary coil resistance in this case.
Perhaps a LED lamp of a few Watts designed for normal 120V AC mains could be used? But the output power from the signal generator is limited to half or 1W or so? (its output impedance surely is 50 Ohm).

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on September 30, 2011, 08:09:46 PM
Hi Gyula,

I did this last night. I used a light bulb that the Secondary could not light and the result is the same.

Here is the scope shot with an unlit 12v auto bulb measuring 10 Ohm's as load on Secondary and the next scope shot I moved the Voltage Probe (Yellow) across the bulb.

Luc

Thanks Luc,  this confirms the voltage divider is in full action and I answered this to you in my above post.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 01, 2011, 02:53:25 AM
Hi everyone,

I pickup my Two 60uf AC Capacitors from storage but unfortunately it is not enough to drop the Primary Resonant Frequency down to 60Hz.

Using all the AC Capacitors I now have and connecting them in Parallel I have 165uf.
With this 165uf connected to the primary it will Resonate @115Hz.

The good news is the Transformer still shows the same results.
@115Hz with 10 Ohm Bulb Load on Secondary and 165uf Capacitor on Primary it uses the same amount of current as just the transformer idling @115Hz with no Load on Secondary and no Capacitor on Primary. So this is good.

Also, an extra bonus is @115Hz the Voltage across the 10 Ohm Bulb is now up to 1.90 Volts RMS compared to @250Hz the 10 Ohm Bulb was at 0.62 Volts RMS. Things are looking better as the Frequency is dropping.

I'm just going to need around or over 200uF of AC Capacitance to get this Mot down to the 60Hz range. Then I'll be able to hook this puppy to Grid Power and see what happens ;D

Below are the 115Hz Scope shots: Green is Primary Current and Yellow is Voltage

First Scope Shot: @115Hz with no Load on Secondary and no Capacitor on Primary (transformer idling)

Second Scope Shot: @115Hz with 10 Ohm Bulb Load on Secondary and 165uf Capacitor on Primary

Third Scope Shot: @115Hz with 10 Ohm bulb Load on Secondary and 165uf Capacitor on Primary but with Yellow Probe across Bulb

I will try to find some more AC Capacitors and post the results

Stay tuned

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on October 01, 2011, 03:17:53 AM
Hey Luc

Good stuff.  ;]

About hooking it up to the grid(wall current)

Have you ever done this? Without the cap its dangerous.

Just checking.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 01, 2011, 04:59:09 AM
Hey Luc

Good stuff.  ;]

About hooking it up to the grid(wall current)

Have you ever done this? Without the cap its dangerous.

Just checking.  ;]

Mags

Hey Mags,

not to worry :o... once I have it tuned to 60Hz I'll use my Variac and slowly bring her to life ;)

Thanks for your post and concern

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 01, 2011, 11:09:32 AM
Quote
Hi everyone,

The good news is the Transformer still shows the same results.
@115Hz with 10 Ohm Bulb Load on Secondary and 165uf Capacitor on Primary it uses the same amount of current as just the transformer idling @115Hz with no Load on Secondary and no Capacitor on Primary. So this is good.

THIS IS NOT DELAYED LENZ EFFECT - THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE WHICH MAY BE USEFUL BUT AT 4:45 AM I CAN'T COME UP WITH A GOOD NAME  :P

Quote
Below are the 115Hz Scope shots: Green is Primary Current and Yellow is Voltage

First Scope Shot: @115Hz with no Load on Secondary and no Capacitor on Primary (transformer idling)

YOU CAN SEE THAT THE QUALITY OF THIS TRANSFORMER IS NOT VERY GOOD BECAUSE EVEN ON IDLE TO PF IS NOT 0.

Quote
Second Scope Shot: @115Hz with 10 Ohm Bulb Load on Secondary and 165uf Capacitor on Primary

THIS IS NORMAL TRANSFORMER OPERATION NOW... LOAD PF IS BEING TRANSFERRED BACK TO SECONDARY AND THEN TO PRIMARY. HOWEVER THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE HAS NOT BEEN LOWERED DUE TO THE CAP SO THE PRIMARY CURRENT DOES NOT INCREASE (APPARENTLY).

Quote
Third Scope Shot: @115Hz with 10 Ohm bulb Load on Secondary and 165uf Capacitor on Primary but with Yellow Probe across Bulb

NOW YOU ARE MEASURING THE PF ACROSS A SHUNT, PF = 1 AND A LIGHT BULB, PF = 1.
YOU REALLY NEED A 4 CHANNEL SCOPE SO YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING THAT IS GOING ON HERE.

PERHAPS YOU CAN COME OVER TO MY PLACE NEXT WEEK AND WE CAN PUT YOUR SETUP ON MY 4 CHANNEL SCOPE AND YOU CAN HELP ME GET MY MOTOR WORKING?  :-\ ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS SAIL UP THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER.

Quote
I will try to find some more AC Capacitors and post the results

Stay tuned

Luc

STAY "TUNED" ACTUALLY MEANS TO KEEP RESONATING (AT THE SAME VIBRATIONAL FREQUENCY)
OR KEEP "RECEIVING" COMMUNICATIONS
AND WE ARE ONLY WILLING TO "ACCEPT" INFORMATION THAT RESONATES WITH US (ACTUALLY THAT WHICH RESONATES WITH OUR SOUL).
THAT IS PROBABLY WHY MOST OF US ARE HERE - WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF WE COULDN'T HEAR THE PRIMARY MESSAGE OF WANTING TO CREATE A BETTER WORLD.  8)

SORRY I JUST THOUGHT THAT "STAY TUNED" STATEMENT WAS INTERESTING.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 01, 2011, 06:03:00 PM
Waxing Spiritual and a Bit poetic,?

Mr. T
You are such an interesting man,Inspiring Too..........

Very Inspiring ,You make me wanna grab my swim trunks And swim
Up old Miss [issippi [] Yeah that sounds funny  but I'm leaving it anyway]

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 02, 2011, 12:39:08 AM
@ DreamThinkBuild,

Hi DTB :)

What a great idea, and simple too !

I have another magnet just like that and will attach it, i suppose the rotation will be slightly slower due to extra mass but the flux will be doubled.

Thanks,

Gary.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 02, 2011, 01:08:20 AM
:(

I tried it and it doesn't have the push, but my PSU only does 18 V @ 2 A so ...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 02, 2011, 02:13:32 AM
I added a small, ferrite core to the drive coil to get extra push and it helps but still can't get up to the right frequency for the effect to kick in.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 02, 2011, 06:42:16 AM
THIS IS NOT DELAYED LENZ EFFECT - THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE WHICH MAY BE USEFUL BUT AT 4:45 AM I CAN'T COME UP WITH A GOOD NAME  :P

YOU CAN SEE THAT THE QUALITY OF THIS TRANSFORMER IS NOT VERY GOOD BECAUSE EVEN ON IDLE TO PF IS NOT 0.

THIS IS NORMAL TRANSFORMER OPERATION NOW... LOAD PF IS BEING TRANSFERRED BACK TO SECONDARY AND THEN TO PRIMARY. HOWEVER THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE HAS NOT BEEN LOWERED DUE TO THE CAP SO THE PRIMARY CURRENT DOES NOT INCREASE (APPARENTLY).

NOW YOU ARE MEASURING THE PF ACROSS A SHUNT, PF = 1 AND A LIGHT BULB, PF = 1.
YOU REALLY NEED A 4 CHANNEL SCOPE SO YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING THAT IS GOING ON HERE.

PERHAPS YOU CAN COME OVER TO MY PLACE NEXT WEEK AND WE CAN PUT YOUR SETUP ON MY 4 CHANNEL SCOPE AND YOU CAN HELP ME GET MY MOTOR WORKING?  :-\ ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS SAIL UP THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER.

STAY "TUNED" ACTUALLY MEANS TO KEEP RESONATING (AT THE SAME VIBRATIONAL FREQUENCY)
OR KEEP "RECEIVING" COMMUNICATIONS
AND WE ARE ONLY WILLING TO "ACCEPT" INFORMATION THAT RESONATES WITH US (ACTUALLY THAT WHICH RESONATES WITH OUR SOUL).
THAT IS PROBABLY WHY MOST OF US ARE HERE - WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF WE COULDN'T HEAR THE PRIMARY MESSAGE OF WANTING TO CREATE A BETTER WORLD.  8)

SORRY I JUST THOUGHT THAT "STAY TUNED" STATEMENT WAS INTERESTING.

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane,

thanks for the invitation to use your 4 Channel Scope. I may take you up on your offer to go to your lab but I'll drive there instead ;)

Would also like to see your motor and would be happy to help.

Glad you picked up on the stay tuned ;D

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 02, 2011, 08:40:25 PM
Hello You All,

Finally I have hooked up a Second Hand MOT (Microwave Oven Transformer)
Directly to my frequency drive controller. To be more precise, it is connected to the frequency drive controller by a 2.2 Ohms resistor, so that I can show the primary amperage going to my primary. And that I am able to show the phase angle between the voltage and the amperage on the primary side of my MOT.

I found that the results obtained are exactly the same as in my previous experiment about the home made transformer with a very high impedance secondary coil.

So this time I only have used normal Off-The-Shelf components. So please see my New Video about the Delayed Lenz effect on:

It looks like my LED Light Bulb (load) on the secondary is running purely on reactive power by now!

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: plengo on October 02, 2011, 10:34:16 PM
I think this video is very relevant to this research.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on October 02, 2011, 10:40:57 PM
Hello You All,

Finally I have hooked up a Second Hand MOT (Microwave Oven Transformer)
Directly to my frequency drive controller. To be more precise, it is connected to the frequency drive controller by a 2.2 Ohms resistor, so that I can show the primary amperage going to my primary. And that I am able to show the phase angle between the voltage and the amperage on the primary side of my MOT.

I found that the results obtained are exactly the same as in my previous experiment about the home made transformer with a very high impedance secondary coil.

So this time I only have used normal Off-The-Shelf components. So please see my New Video about the Delayed Lenz effect on:

It looks like my LED Light Bulb (load) on the secondary is running purely on reactive power by now!

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Hmm,  if we had another secondary in there, on the other side of the primary, the input should go down even more, but will the combined outputs be more than 1.  ;]

Thanks for doing these tests.  Im sure everyone agrees this is good stuff.

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 02, 2011, 11:31:42 PM
... but will the combined outputs be more than 1.  ;]
Mags

HELLO MAGS,

I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF OUG IS ALREADY AT OU?  :o
MAYBE NOW WE CAN GET HIM A NEW JOB...

CHEERS
T

Hey Overunityguide,

Really nice job!

Can you measure the power going to your LEDS?
I am assuming the PF is 1 so just Current and Voltage.

Lets say the power is 1.5 Watts for example.

Now assuming your MOT is purely reactive the power dissipated as heat should be primary I^2 x Rdcprimary.

You may be at OU already!?

Now people will say your FDG is part of the circuit but in reality it is not because the FDG can actually be replaced by a conventional generator running at 950 Hz and when combined with your MOT the CONVENTIONAL generator will be isolated from the load so NO armature reaction will take place.

Cheers
Thane
Sent to: overunityguide

PS WITH THIS IN MIND CAN YOU...

CONNECT YOUR GENERATOR TO YOUR MOT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS AT 200 HZ AND 950 HZ COMING FROM THE GENERATOR INSTEAD OF THE F.D.C. - JUST CURIOUS?

WITH THIS SETUP YOU CAN HONESTLY SAY THE INPUT TO THE TRANSFORMER IS MEASURED RIGHT BEFORE THE PRIMARY AND THE OUTPUT IS THE POWER THROUGH THE LOAD.
BTW VARY THE LOADS BECAUSE YOU OUGHT TO FIND AN IDEAL LOAD WHICH PROVIDES MAX OUTPUT?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 03, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
Boss
The Perfect Venue!!

We strap your Crankybut to one of these and you soar into the reccord books?? [2 min 10 sec we can beat that......]

From
Nul Points
Maxwell's Daemon ...my drinking buddy

Manned electric helicopter
Â« on: October 02, 2011, 12:01:00 PM Â»QuoteOn August 12, electrical/aerospace engineer and helicopter pilot Pascal Chretien took to the air in the world's first untethered, fully electric manned helicopter flight in a prototype machine that he designed and built almost entirely by himself within a 12 month development period. In his 2 minute, 10 second test flight, Chretien beat aviation giant Sikorsky into the record books...

...Chretien was able to achieve an 87.5% energy efficiency between the battery terminals and the rotor shafts...

Vive la France!

...Thane Heins version anyone?

cordialement
np

.................

Think of all the Guiness reccords you'll be breakin!!

VIVA LA EARTH !!!!

Chet

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on October 03, 2011, 10:05:12 AM
Hmm,  if we had another secondary in there, on the other side of the primary, the input should go down even more, but will the combined outputs be more than 1.  ;]

Thanks for doing these tests.  Im sure everyone agrees this is good stuff.

Mags

Adding more secondary coils is more complex as assumed by some.
Those multiple secondaries will also interact amongst each other.

Example: a transformer with one primary and two secondary windings:
Instead of having independant primary-secondary(1) and primary-secondary(2) interactions there will also be secondary(1)-secondary(2) interactions.

I agree that those that share their experiments deserve credits though!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 03, 2011, 01:27:04 PM
Hi Thane,

thanks for the invitation to use your 4 Channel Scope. I may take you up on your offer to go to your lab but I'll drive there instead ;)

Would also like to see your motor and would be happy to help.

Glad you picked up on the stay tuned ;D

Luc

DEAR LUC,

IF YOU CAN HELP ME GED RID OF "SPARKY" THAT WOULD BE GOOD:  8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaanVJxqyXQ

THE ELECTRONIC RELAY YOU GAVE ME WORKED WELL FOR 5 MINUTES.  :P

CHET,

"I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details." ~ Einstein

IT'S TOO BAD EINSTEIN ISN'T PART OF THIS FORUM BECAUSE THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE QUESTION IS SIMPLY TO TUNE INTO (RESONATE AT) THE FREQUENCY OF LOVE WHICH IS CRAZY SIMPLE, BUT ALSO CRAZY DIFFICULT... FIRST STEP; GET RID OF EGO (RESISTANCE), SECOND STEP; APPLY ME TO WE. (THIS IS HOW THE BiTT WORKS WHERE THE SECONDARY COILS ARE THEIR "BROTHERS KEEPERS").

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THESE ARE THE SAME STEPS REQUIRED TO CREATE AN OVERUNITY DEVICE... WHICH IS ACTUALLY JUST A MECHANICAL REPRESENTATIONS OF LOVE. IF HUMANITY WANTS TO EVOLVE WE NEED TO LEARN TO INVOLVE LOVE WHICH IS NON-EXPLOITATION AND THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE ARE CURRENTLY DOING WHICH (AS WE ALL KNOW INTUITIVELY) WILL DESTROY US IF WE CONTINUE.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 03, 2011, 05:49:41 PM
Hi everyone,

this is my last update on using Capacitors on the Primary of the MOT.

I did manage to find another 60uf AC Capacitor and I thought I would be able to drop the Frequency down to 60Hz but it's not the case. It only dropped to 100Hz from the previous 115Hz. So imagine how much more Capacitance would take to drop it another 40Hz

The problem with MOT from Canada and the US (120vac) is the Henry value of the Primary. It's way to small compared from the ones from Europe. Overunityguide's last video shows his MOT Primary at 231mH compared to my highest Henry selected Mot at 76mH.
This is probably why he can get the effect as low as 950Hz without capacitors compared to me at 4,800Hz

So I find it's pointless to continue with these 120vac Primary MOT's. I will need to wind my own Transformer to continue the experiments. This will take some time as I have another job to complete.

I will post in a week or so

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 03, 2011, 06:14:18 PM
DEAR LUC,

IF YOU CAN HELP ME GED RID OF "SPARKY" THAT WOULD BE GOOD:  8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaanVJxqyXQ

THE ELECTRONIC RELAY YOU GAVE ME WORKED WELL FOR 5 MINUTES.  :P

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane,

won't be able this week. I also would suggest building a miniature version first.

Also, I don't understand what the advantage would be (at this time) to make a Motor Generator in one. I know it's possible to do but why not focus the energy on making more coils to demonstrate a higher Current Output and just use an already working Prime Mover?

Sorry if I don't understand the advantage here.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 03, 2011, 06:28:52 PM
Luc
Quote:
So I find it's pointless to continue with these 120vac Primary MOT's. I will need to wind my own Transformer to continue the experiments. This will take some time as I have another job to complete.

----------------

Can not some good Soul from Europe Take pitty on the poor fingers of Luc""

And send him a Mot ??

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on October 03, 2011, 07:35:02 PM
Hi Thane,

One thing I found good for spark suppression and switching are pressure switch contacts.

http://www.austsun.com.au/overview-1.html
http://www.catskillhouse.us/blog/well-pump-pressure-switch/

Hi DeepCut,

If you have a small motor and put a rubber wheel on it see if you can try to get the magnets up to speed. It might catch, if not you need more power either amps or by adding flywheel.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 03, 2011, 11:29:22 PM

Hey Overunityguide,

Really nice job!

Can you measure the power going to your LEDS?
I am assuming the PF is 1 so just Current and Voltage.

Lets say the power is 1.5 Watts for example.

Hello Thane,

Thank you, I have measured it, and my LED light bulb runs at about: 0.94 Watts by now.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 03, 2011, 11:37:18 PM
Hi Luc,

When you started the MOT transformer tests with a neon bulb load across the secondary and no capacitor across the primary, you wrote the transformer primary inductance was about 68mH.
Then you started using parallel caps across the primary and gradually came down from the 4-5kHz no cap test to 2.45kHz (C=0.39uF), then to 578Hz (C=6.8uF), then to 250Hz (C=37.4uF) and now to 115Hz (C=165uF).

By checking these data pairs with the resonance formula the primary inductance of the trafo used for these tests comes out as 10.8 to 11.6mH range, this is rather far from the 68-76mH you seem to be aware of you have primaries.

The tuning cap for 60Hz in case of the 68mH primary coil should be around 103.5uF and in case of a 76mH primary coil it would be around 92.6uF.

IF you have got a 11mH primary only (taking this average value from my above calculations), then the needed tuning cap for 60Hz would be around 639.6uF, a huge value indeed.
So a primary inductance check is in order?

One more thing: why do not you use your 7.5H ferrite core coils for these tests? (just to save you from winding transformer...)

Gyula

Hi everyone,

this is my last update on using Capacitors on the Primary of the MOT.

I did manage to find another 60uf AC Capacitor and I thought I would be able to drop the Frequency down to 60Hz but it's not the case. It only dropped to 100Hz from the previous 115Hz. So imagine how much more Capacitance would take to drop it another 40Hz

The problem with MOT from Canada and the US (120vac) is the Henry value of the Primary. It's way to small compared from the ones from Europe. Overunityguide's last video shows his MOT Primary at 231mH compared to my highest Henry selected Mot at 76mH.
This is probably why he can get the effect as low as 950Hz without capacitors compared to me at 4,800Hz

So I find it's pointless to continue with these 120vac Primary MOT's. I will need to wind my own Transformer to continue the experiments. This will take some time as I have another job to complete.

I will post in a week or so

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 03, 2011, 11:47:21 PM
Hi everyone,

this is my last update on using Capacitors on the Primary of the MOT.

I did manage to find another 60uf AC Capacitor and I thought I would be able to drop the Frequency down to 60Hz but it's not the case. It only dropped to 100Hz from the previous 115Hz. So imagine how much more Capacitance would take to drop it another 40Hz

The problem with MOT from Canada and the US (120vac) is the Henry value of the Primary. It's way to small compared from the ones from Europe. Overunityguide's last video shows his MOT Primary at 231mH compared to my highest Henry selected Mot at 76mH.
This is probably why he can get the effect as low as 950Hz without capacitors compared to me at 4,800Hz

So I find it's pointless to continue with these 120vac Primary MOT's. I will need to wind my own Transformer to continue the experiments. This will take some time as I have another job to complete.

I will post in a week or so

Luc

Hi Luc, I still don't see why you would run your MOT at 50/60Hz. I say this because: the thing which is really important to get a proper Lenz Delay, is a very high impedance coil in combination with a higher frequency. So in your case, I don't see a problem in your low inductance primary coil at all. It is the secondary coil on your MOT which is important. Please see my video about: How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz effect. On my Youtube Channel. Than I think you will understand what I mean...

But for now, I don't want to discourage you.

So please keep up the good work, and with Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 04, 2011, 12:09:16 AM
Hello Thane,
LED light bulb runs at about: 0.94 Watts by now.

DEAR OUG, PLEASE FILL IN THE ?'s BELOW...

OUTPUT = 0.94 WATTS
INPUT = [(INPUT AMPS) x2] x PRIMARY DC RESISTANCE = ?

EFFICIENCY = OUTPUT / INPUT x100 = ?

NOW IF YOU CHECK THE EFFICIENCY OF YOUR MOT AT 50 HZ, I BET IT WILL BE ABOUT 60 - 70% EFFICIENCY.

YOUR PROCESS CREATES A MOT WHICH IS ?% EFFICIENT...
AND THIS REPRESENTS ? % EFFICIENCY INCREASE JUST BY INCREASING THE FREQUENCY...!

THIS GUY HAS A SIMPLE FREQUENCY GENERATOR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpH0FQTXgX8

MY POINT IS THIS; IF YOUR EFFICIENCY INCREASE PERCENTAGE JUSTIFIES THE ADDED EXPENSE OF ADDING A SIMPLE FREQUENCY MULTIPLIER THEN YOU HAVE A COMMERCIALLY VIABLE PRODUCT WHICH CAN BE ADDED TO MICROWAVE OVENS, MICROWAVE TRANSMITTERS, LIGHTS AND ON AND ON TO REDUCE POWER CONSUMPTION. 10% WOULD BE HUGE! ;) DO YOU GET IT DUDE?

IF THIS IS TRUE PDI's LICENSING COMPANY WILL COMMERCIALIZE IT ON YOUR BEHALF AND PAY YOU FOR IT SO YOU CAN GET A NEW DAY JOB.

IF YOU CAN GET A CHEAP CHINESE MADE MOT TO INCREASE ITS EFFICIENCY BY 10 - 20% AND THIS CAN BE APPLIED TO EVERY CONVENTIONAL TRANSFORMER IN THE WORLD - LIKE RIGHT NOW -THEN WATCH OUT!  8)

NOW PLEASE GO BACK AND ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ABOVE SO WE CAN DO A PROPER EVALUATION.

THANKS
Thane
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 04, 2011, 01:05:33 AM
Hi Luc,

When you started the MOT transformer tests with a neon bulb load across the secondary and no capacitor across the primary, you wrote the transformer primary inductance was about 68mH.
Then you started using parallel caps across the primary and gradually came down from the 4-5kHz no cap test to 2.45kHz (C=0.39uF), then to 578Hz (C=6.8uF), then to 250Hz (C=37.4uF) and now to 115Hz (C=165uF).

By checking these data pairs with the resonance formula the primary inductance of the trafo used for these tests comes out as 10.8 to 11.6mH range, this is rather far from the 68-76mH you seem to be aware of you have primaries.

The tuning cap for 60Hz in case of the 68mH primary coil should be around 103.5uF and in case of a 76mH primary coil it would be around 92.6uF.

IF you have got a 11mH primary only (taking this average value from my above calculations), then the needed tuning cap for 60Hz would be around 639.6uF, a huge value indeed.
So a primary inductance check is in order?

One more thing: why do not you use your 7.5H ferrite core coils for these tests? (just to save you from winding transformer...)

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

thanks for looking over my test data.

I bought my Inductance meter over 2 years ago on eBay from China. I was cheap \$18. (delivered). The selector dial doesn't always have a consistent contact so the readings vary a little. I rechecked it many times and it does seem to be in the 75mH range and I'm quite positive it would not be as low as 10mH range.

Looks like we have something going on in the MOT that a normal LCR Calculator is not able to accurately calculate. My Total Capacitance is 213uF and I can only get down to 100Hz.
It blew me away :o when I added a 60uF Cap and it only dropped by 15Hz.

My data is accurate enough that there cannot be such a difference. Maybe one day we will understand why this is ???

When I said I would have to wind a transformer I meant using the Ferrite Toroid with the 7.5H coil already on it. I guess I'll just wind the Primary over top of the 7.5H coil.
The bonus with a Ferrite would be that it would be more Efficient at higher Frequencies then the Steel Laminations of a MOT.

Please let me know what you think of this.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 04, 2011, 01:44:51 AM
Hi Luc, I still don't see why you would run your MOT at 50/60Hz. I say this because: the thing which is really important to get a proper Lenz Delay, is a very high impedance coil in combination with a higher frequency. So in your case, I don't see a problem in your low inductance primary coil at all. It is the secondary coil on your MOT which is important. Please see my video about: How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz effect. On my Youtube Channel. Than I think you will understand what I mean...

But for now, I don't want to discourage you.

So please keep up the good work, and with Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Hi Overunityguide,

correct me if I'm wrong but if you had a low 76mH Primary MOT you would not see this possible Lenz Delay Effect by using your low 950Hz Frequency limit since you could not see the effect until you reached 4,800Hz. So how can you say you don't see a problem?

You should also know that a Steel Lamination Transformer do not operate efficiently at such high Frequencies.  So again, how could you say you don't see a problem?

The reason I would like to get this effect using 60Hz Grid Power is I would be able to observe the effect of increased voltage delivered to the Primary and how it effect the Transformer.

Don't you think eliminating your power hog Frequency Controller and connecting to Grid with clean Sine Waves on your Scope would make a more convincing presentation?

Maybe it's just me but I'm not convinced yet of this effect with the information presented. How does everyone else feel?

Yes, I already seen your video "How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz effect"

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on October 04, 2011, 02:44:08 AM
It makes sense to want it to operate at 60hz, or 50hz.  ;]

I the case of redesigning a new transformer with additional circuitry, just add a cap to the primary of an existing transformer in the MW.

So I guess we will find out if it just uses less input to run a MW, or if we have to tone it down a bit due to too much output.

You have been around a while Luc. Your doin the right thing(s).  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 04, 2011, 08:47:06 AM
Hi Overunityguide,

correct me if I'm wrong but if you had a low 76mH Primary MOT you would not see this possible Lenz Delay Effect by using your low 950Hz Frequency limit since you could not see the effect until you reached 4,800Hz. So how can you say you don't see a problem?

Hello Luc,

Why do you keep going on about your inductance value at your primary coil? In my opinion this value really don't matters. So saying that you need at last 4800 Hz based on your primary inductance value doesn't make sense to me at all. What is your secondary inductance value? Because this is the value what you need to do your calculations on... The primary coil is on case of the MOT only a secondary exciter...  ;)

And of course I agree with you that less components would be better, read eliminating my frequency drive controller. But personally I don't think that the delay is big enough at the low grid frequencies... Because otherwise each microwave oven company should be power factor correcting there primary coils of their MOT transformers..

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 04, 2011, 09:01:14 AM
DEAR OUG, PLEASE FILL IN THE ?'s

THANKS
Thane

Hello Thane,

By now I unfortunately can't answer your questions, because I am on a business trip right now, so I can only do some remote commenting on my mobile device... I will get back on this next saturday.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on October 04, 2011, 12:17:35 PM
OUG, Thane,

Can I propose the following measurement procedure to get precise figures on Power Factor and COP:

Attached power vectors include VAR and Watt measurement.
If I am not mistaken, the power meter of OUG should be able to measure VARs as well.
It's important to include VAR measurements to understand the overall picture.

Six situations, depicted in the first graph:
1) Controller only, high frequency (A)
2) Controller only, low frequency (B)
3) MOT connected to controller, no load, low frequency (C)
4) MOT connnected to controller, no load, high frequency (E)
5) MOT connnected to controller, load, low frequency (D)
6) MOT connnected to controller, load, high frequency (F)

A and B are measurements to check the controller power without the MOT connected, B at low frequency, A at high frequency
(I suppose they have different values)
C and D are measurements at low frequency only, C is to check no load power, D is to check power including load
E and F are measurements at high frequency only, E is to check no load power, F is to check power including load

Most important values to understand correctly are E and F.
As you can see in the below depicted example, first picture, F has a lower Watt value as E, due to the reduced Lenz impact, while with C and D no decrease of the Watt value can be observed.

The second illustration indicates possible scenarios for the PF of the MOT at the high frequency situation. F1, F2 and F3 indicate power under load in this example.
(PF < 0 is very unlikely to happen, but necessary for MOT COP > 1)

Just to make everyone aware who watched Overunityguide's Youtube videos sofar:
In none of his measured situations PF < 0 happened, so no COP>1 !!
Nevertheless, great series of demo's.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 04, 2011, 01:18:31 PM
Hello Thane,

I will get back on this next saturday.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

DEAR OUG,

IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THOSE ANSWERS BECAUSE WE HAVE 3000 CONNECTIONS ON LINKEDIN AND ABOUT A THIRD OF THOSE ARE TRANSFORMER COMPANIES. ANOTHER THIRD ARE GENERATOR COMPANIES AND MANY WIND GENERATOR ENGINEERS AS WELL.

MY POINT AGAIN:

IF WE TAKE A CONVENTIONAL WIND GENERATOR DESIGN OPERATING AT 950 HZ AND WE CAN STEP UP THE VOLTAGE TO THE GRID WITH A "OUG DELAYED LENZ TRANSFORMER"

AND THEN ANOTHER "OUG STEP DOWN TRANSFORMER" AT THE POINT OF USE IE THE CONSUMER'S RESIDENCE - THEN WE HAVE A;

COMPLETELY REACTION FREE ELECTRICITY DELIVERY PARADIGM WHERE ONE WIND GENERATOR CAN SUPPLY MANY MORE HOUSES WHICH ARE ALL ONLY BORROWING REACTIVE POWER.

OUG, YOU NEED TO CHECK IF YOUR TRANSFORMER WORKS IN REVERSE AS A STEP DOWN TRANSFORMER ONCE YOU GET BACK FROM YOUR BUSINESS TRIP... :P

EVEN IF IT DOESN'T (STEP DOWN) IT IS STILL POTENTIALLY A VERY VIABLE COMMERCIAL PRODUCT - WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT A COMMERCIAL WIND TURBINE PLACES ITS TRANSFORMER IN A SEALED FIRE PROOF ROOM WITH AIR CONDITIONING AND FIRE SUPRESSION EQUIPMENT AT GREAT EXPENSE ALL BECAUSE OF SECONDARY INDUCED BEMF INCREASING THE PRIMARY CURRENT AND HEATING UP AND EVENTUALLY BURNING UP THE VERY EXPENSIVE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY.  :(

CHEERS
Thane
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 04, 2011, 07:01:00 PM
Saturday!??
So what are we supposed to do till saturday??
Anybody have some "Cards"?
Maybe we could Play Pee Knuckle ??

Do we even work on Saturday??

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 04, 2011, 07:29:52 PM
Hi Luc,

When you started the MOT transformer tests with a neon bulb load across the secondary and no capacitor across the primary, you wrote the transformer primary inductance was about 68mH.
Then you started using parallel caps across the primary and gradually came down from the 4-5kHz no cap test to 2.45kHz (C=0.39uF), then to 578Hz (C=6.8uF), then to 250Hz (C=37.4uF) and now to 115Hz (C=165uF).

By checking these data pairs with the resonance formula the primary inductance of the trafo used for these tests comes out as 10.8 to 11.6mH range, this is rather far from the 68-76mH you seem to be aware of you have primaries.

The tuning cap for 60Hz in case of the 68mH primary coil should be around 103.5uF and in case of a 76mH primary coil it would be around 92.6uF.

IF you have got a 11mH primary only (taking this average value from my above calculations), then the needed tuning cap for 60Hz would be around 639.6uF, a huge value indeed.
So a primary inductance check is in order?

One more thing: why do not you use your 7.5H ferrite core coils for these tests? (just to save you from winding transformer...)

Gyula

Hi Gyula and anyone interested

I found out why your Resonance Calculations are not working out with the Primary Inductance I gave.

Your Calculations are Correct if you don't have the MOT Secondary under Load. However, as soon as the Secondary is under Load it shifts the Resonating Frequency to a much higher Frequency.
All my prior tests were done with the Secondary under load so this is why we have a difference.

I made a video Demo just for you so you can see what happens. I also attached the Scope shots below.

In all Scope shots Current is Green and Voltage is Yellow

Fist Scope Shot is MOT Primary @46Hz with Secondary Open and No Cap on Primary
Second Scope Shot is MOT Primary @46Hz with Secondary Open and 60uf Cap on Primary
Third Scope Shot is MOT Primary @46Hz with Secondary Shorted and 60uf Cap on Primary
Forth Scope Shot is MOT Primary @195Hz with Secondary Open and No Cap on Primary
Fith Scope Shot is MOT Primary @195Hz with Secondary Open and 60uf Cap on Primary
Sixth Scope Shot is MOT Primary @195Hz with Secondary Shorted and 60uf Cap on Primary

Hope you now understand what is happening. I would also like to know what you think or know is happening. Could this have anything to do with OUG Lenz Delay effect?

Thank you for your time and please feel free to ask me any other experiments you would like me to do.

Also, last nigh I wound a Primary over top of the 7.5H Toroid coil. The New Primary has a 135mH Inductance. I tested it and found nothing unusual form 1Hz to 2MHz. All was Normal Transformer action. So there is something quite different in the MOT that could be caused by the Iron core or the High Impedance Secondary.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 04, 2011, 09:04:08 PM
.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 04, 2011, 09:28:02 PM
OUG, Thane,
In none of his measured situations PF < 0 happened, so no COP>1 !!
Nevertheless, great series of demo's.

I DON'T THINK IT WAS OUG's INTENTION TO SHOW OVERNUDITY.
I THINK HIS INTENTION WAS ONLY TO SHOW A REDUCTION IN INPUT ON LOAD.
IF YOU TURNED ON YOUR MICROWAVE OVEN TO COOK YOUR DINNER AND YOUR METER SLOWED DOWN IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING, NO?

AND I DON'T THINK OUG's VIDEOS ARE THAT GREAT ANYWAY  >:(
NO DRUGS, NO VIOLENCE, AND NO NUDITY OR S.E.X OF ANY KIND!
MIGHT AS WELL BE THE FREAKIN CHURCH CHANNEL  ;).

T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: teslaalset on October 04, 2011, 10:08:55 PM
I DON'T THINK IT WAS OUG's INTENTION TO SHOW OVERNUDITY.
I THINK HIS INTENTION WAS ONLY TO SHOW A REDUCTION IN INPUT ON LOAD.
IF YOU TURNED ON YOUR MICROWAVE OVEN TO COOK YOUR DINNER AND YOUR METER SLOWED DOWN IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING, NO?

Indeed I'm a big fan of slow food.
Let's see what happens when a capacity is added to the primary.
Some say it will make a potential difference ;)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 04, 2011, 11:08:13 PM
Hi Luc,

So far I forgot to think of the effect of a shorted coil in case of these transformer tests you have been doing.  Normally a shorted coil or heavily loaded coil reduces all the other coils self inductances on the transformer because of the counter-flux (Lenz law).
You can test this with your L meter connected to say the primary and short the MOT secondary, you may have to see the primary 76-80mH normal inductance value drops to the 10-12mH range (if you indeed measured 76-80mH when the secondary was an open circuit).

A "problem" still seems manifesting in case of the second scope picture you uploaded whereby the f=46.3Hz, 60uF is in parallel with the primary and the secondary is unsorted. In this case the LC resonance calculation gives 196.9mH primary inductance: why did it "increase" so much wrt the 76-80mH? There was no shorted coil then.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 05, 2011, 12:07:40 AM
HHHMMmmmmm
Yah Know I been meanin to go to church a bit More.......
I have such Fond Mamories ....
I see they changed the dress code?

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 05, 2011, 05:01:03 AM
Hi Luc,

So far I forgot to think of the effect of a shorted coil in case of these transformer tests you have been doing.  Normally a shorted coil or heavily loaded coil reduces all the other coils self inductances on the transformer because of the counter-flux (Lenz law).
You can test this with your L meter connected to say the primary and short the MOT secondary, you may have to see the primary 76-80mH normal inductance value drops to the 10-12mH range (if you indeed measured 76-80mH when the secondary was an open circuit).

A "problem" still seems manifesting in case of the second scope picture you uploaded whereby the f=46.3Hz, 60uF is in parallel with the primary and the secondary is unsorted. In this case the LC resonance calculation gives 196.9mH primary inductance: why did it "increase" so much wrt the 76-80mH? There was no shorted coil then.

Gyula

I hooked up my variable ;D Inductance meter to the Primary and tonight it reads 70mH.
Then I connect the 60uf Cap and it reads (minus) -26mH.
Then I short the Secondary coil and it reads 17.2mH.
Then I remove the Cap and it reads 11mH

So now it is clear why the Capacitance needed to be so high.

Normally a shorted coil or heavily loaded coil reduces all the other coils self inductances on the transformer because of the counter-flux (Lenz law).

Gyula

So if this is Lenz Law happening then where is the Delayed Lenz Effect Overunityguide is talking about?

Also Gyula, would you know why Overunityguide does not see any reason a higher Primary Inductance value would not be any better?... I just can't get my mind around that one.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 05, 2011, 08:14:00 AM
Hi Luc,

So far I forgot to think of the effect of a shorted coil in case of these transformer tests you have been doing.  Normally a shorted coil or heavily loaded coil reduces all the other coils self inductances on the transformer because of the counter-flux (Lenz law).
You can test this with your L meter connected to say the primary and short the MOT secondary, you may have to see the primary 76-80mH normal inductance value drops to the 10-12mH range (if you indeed measured 76-80mH when the secondary was an open circuit).

A "problem" still seems manifesting in case of the second scope picture you uploaded whereby the f=46.3Hz, 60uF is in parallel with the primary and the secondary is unsorted. In this case the LC resonance calculation gives 196.9mH primary inductance: why did it "increase" so much wrt the 76-80mH? There was no shorted coil then.

Gyula

effect of a short circuit on the secondary:

http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/ferrite_transformers.htm
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 05, 2011, 09:34:25 AM
So if this is Lenz Law happening then where is the Delayed Lenz Effect Overunityguide is talking about?

Also Gyula, would you know why Overunityguide does not see any reason a higher Primary Inductance value would not be any better?... I just can't get my mind around that

@Luc,

Please lets do some calculation on the MOT experiment. In my calculation of the Lenz Delay video, you can see that we can use L/R.

So in the MOT experiment let assume that we are using: 25H as a secondary coil, with an internal reassurance of 300 Ohms. And that we are using 200 Ohms as a load connected to the secondary coil.

This would give us a delay of: L/R = 25/(300+200) = 50 mSec.
To develop a back EMF of around: 63%

If we are using 950Hz in this case, than one period will take you:
1/F = 1/950 = around: 1mSec.

So when you compare the 50 mSec with the 1 mSec, than you can see where the Lenz Delay is coming from...

And further, the secondary MOT transformer coil also has internal capacitance. So this internal capacitance in combination with the secondary induction will create resonance inside the secondary coil.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 05, 2011, 12:52:19 PM
And further, the secondary MOT transformer coil also has internal capacitance. So this internal capacitance in combination with the secondary induction will create resonance inside the secondary coil.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

DEAR OUG,

I HAVE ANOTHER JOB FOR YOU FOR WHEN YOU GET BACK FROM YOUR BUSINESS TRIP THIS SATURDAY.  :-*

MAKE A BI-FILAR SERIES CONNECTED SECONDARY COIL FOR YOUR ORIGINAL LENZ DELAY TRANSFORMER SO YOU CAN SHOW HOW THE BI-FILAR WOUND COIL DIFFERS FROM THE HIGH IMPEDANCE SINGLE WIRE WOUND COIL.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 05, 2011, 02:06:38 PM
...
I hooked up my variable ;D Inductance meter to the Primary and tonight it reads 70mH.
Then I connect the 60uf Cap and it reads (minus) -26mH.
Then I short the Secondary coil and it reads 17.2mH.
Then I remove the Cap and it reads 11mH

So now it is clear why the Capacitance needed to be so high.

Hi Luc,  thanks for this test, this then explains the difference between my calculations and your measurements.

Quote
So if this is Lenz Law happening then where is the Delayed Lenz Effect Overunityguide is talking about?

Please ask him to explain it and also that how could it be utilized in practice for instance in case of a microwave oven transformer. I know he showed the LED lamp test in the video but a much higher power load would be much better to test.  I think the crucial point is how such a setup is connected to the mains:  via what means? so that the power factor should stay near zero to consume reactive power...

Here is an interesting animation to show resistive and reactive power in an AC circuit where you can choose between R, L, C and series RL or series RC components as the loads and see that when (in case of reactive components) they return power towards the mains:
http://www.circuit-magic.com/acpower.htm

"... as the current through an inductor increases from its zero value to its maximum value the field around the inductor builds up to a maximum, and when the current decreases from maximum to zero the field collapses and returns the power to the source. You can see therefore that no power is used up in either case, since the power alternately flows to and from the source."

Quote
Also Gyula, would you know why Overunityguide does not see any reason a higher Primary Inductance value would not be any better?... I just can't get my mind around that one.

Probably he considers using much higher operational frequency for a transformer than 50 or 60 Hz mains frequency and if this is so then a lower inductance primary poses much less drawback in this respect.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 05, 2011, 02:29:01 PM
Geeezz ,
Poor OUG ,He's like Cindefellah!
Work ,work,Work...........
------------
@Boss
I think we can get you in the movies!!

You could play one of the good guys    8)  <- {Good Guy]

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 05, 2011, 03:02:13 PM
effect of a short circuit on the secondary:

http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/ferrite_transformers.htm

Hi wings,

"Considering our simple transformer model, the effect of a short circuit on the secondary is illustrated below. The short circuit effectively removes the distributed capacitance, the core loss and the primary inductance from the model, leaving only the series resistance and  the leakage inductance."

Gyula

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 05, 2011, 04:52:07 PM
@Luc,

Please lets do some calculation on the MOT experiment. In my calculation of the Lenz Delay video, you can see that we can use L/R.

So in the MOT experiment let assume that we are using: 25H as a secondary coil, with an internal reassurance of 300 Ohms. And that we are using 200 Ohms as a load connected to the secondary coil.

This would give us a delay of: L/R = 25/(300+200) = 50 mSec.
To develop a back EMF of around: 63%

If we are using 950Hz in this case, than one period will take you:
1/F = 1/950 = around: 1mSec.

So when you compare the 50 mSec with the 1 mSec, than you can see where the Lenz Delay is coming from...

And further, the secondary MOT transformer coil also has internal capacitance. So this internal capacitance in combination with the secondary induction will create resonance inside the secondary coil.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Thanks Overunityguide for this explanation.
Looking at it from just this angle I can now understand why you have no concern for the Primary Inductance.

I will look into it some more

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 05, 2011, 11:30:29 PM
Correction on my previous post:
In my previous post I wrote: internal assurance of 300 Ohms.

Of course this has to be internal resistance of 300 Ohms.
I am sorry about this, but it has to do something with my stupid auto complete function build into my mobile...

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Oh and Luc, I am glade that now you know what I am talking about...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ffdxshow on October 06, 2011, 07:37:06 AM
Hi everyone

i'm just lurking around here and read all previous posts. i know it all depends on the impedance of the secondary and the frequency. so what is the best capacitor value that give the best COP?

i'm building one too.

ffdxshow
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 06, 2011, 08:04:45 AM
Hi everyone,

I can now confirm Overunityguide's Delayed Lenz Effect using my H-Bridge AC Circuit which outputs Square Wave AC from what ever DC Voltage I wish. The best part of using a DC source is I can accurately measure the current consumed using my special meter I built for pulse circuits.

Prior when I was using only the output of the Signal Generator and measuring the Current through a Shunt Resistor connected to my Scope I was not getting real current readings at the right Frequency.

With my new setup I can now see the real current and also now see the Lenz Delay is actually starting around 1,000Hz just like Overunityguide. No capacitors needed.

See the new video demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNihEux8S1M

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: garrypm on October 06, 2011, 09:05:48 AM
Hi Luc,

Wonderful video.

Would it be too much trouble to ask to see the scope when the load is applied?

Thanks, Garry
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 06, 2011, 01:35:55 PM
Hi everyone,

I can now confirm Overunityguide's Delayed Lenz Effect using my H-Bridge AC Circuit which outputs Square Wave AC from what ever DC Voltage I wish. The best part of using a DC source is I can accurately measure the current consumed using my special meter I built for pulse circuits.

Luc

REALLY NICE VIDEO LUC,
YOU CERTAINLY HAVE CONQUERED THAT "ELECTRONICS DEMON"  ;)

I NOTICED THAT IN THE VIDEO YOU SAY THAT, "THE PRIMARY CURRENT DOES NOT CHANGE"
WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE IT ACTUALLY DROPS BY 0.2 mA FROM NO-LOAD TO ON-LOAD?  8)

AM I CORRECT IN WHAT I AM OBSERVING?

I DON'T THINK A CURRENT DROP SHOULD BE UNDERESTIMATED SINCE IT MEANS THAT:

THE SECONDARY DELAYED BEMF FLUX IS ACTUALLY INCREASING THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE CAUSING THE CURRENT TO DROP (REDUCING PRIMARY HEAT AND LOSSES WHILE INCREASING EFFICIENCY WHICH WOULD BE A REALLY HUGE BOOST FOR WIND TURBINE COMPANIES - ARE YOU LISTENING VESTAS, PHILLIPS, GE?). PERHAPS IT IS TIME TO PLACE YOUR SETUP ON A 4 CHANNEL SCOPE? JUST LET ME KNOW...?

CONVENTIONAL TRANSFORMER SECONDARY INDUCED BEMF CAUSE THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE TO DROP WHICH ALLOWS MORE CURRENT TO FLOW INTO THE PRIMARY WHILE ALSO CHANGING THE POWER FACTOR TO MIRROR THE LOAD - WHAT IS YOUR PF ON-LOAD BTW?

IT ALSO MEANS TO ME THAT THE SECONDARY INDUCED BEMF FLUX IS RETURNING TO THE PRIMARY ON THE FALLING EDGE OF THE PRIMARY SINE WAVE RATHER THAN THE LEADING EDGE WHICH OUGHT TO BE EXAMINED MORE CLOSELY.

"WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY BABY" SINCE OUR DAYS AT OTTAWA U (OU) WHEN WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON MOST OF THE TIME.  ??? http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhee#p/u/49/WP7zmk1t2gI

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 06, 2011, 03:10:15 PM
Subject: Would You Like to Witness and Participate in REAL OPEN WORLDWIDE ENERGY RESEARCH?

"We can't set up independent scientific juries every time a company or individual comes forward and makes a extraordinary claim about a technology that can benefit the world."  ~ Tyler Hamiltom, MAD LIKE TESLA Author, University of Toronto Ajunct Professor, and former Toronto Star Energy Reporter

Actually we CAN and we ARE and EVERYONE is invited to attend. http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301879#new

If you want to see generators which ACCELERATE ON-LOAD or transformers which supply power to a load with a REDUCTION IN POWER CONSUMPTION it is all here and you can join in (teach and learn) while maintaining your anonymity.

GENERATOR WHICH ACCELERATES ON-LOAD AND USES LESS POWER

TRANSFORMER WHICH USES LESS POWER ON-LOAD

"You think I'm an arrogant [expletive] who thinks he's above the law, and I think you're a slime bucket [journalist] who gets most of his facts wrong." ~ Steve Jobs

Regards
Thane

CC

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Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 06, 2011, 03:43:22 PM
Subject: WOLDWIDE COLLABORATIVE ENERGY RESEARCH INVITATION

"We can't set up independent scientific juries every time a company or individual comes forward and makes a extraordinary claim about a technology that can benefit the world."  ~ Tyler Hamiltom

Actually we CAN and we ARE and EVERYONE is invited to attend and collaborate. http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301879#new

If you want to see generators which ACCELERATE ON-LOAD or transformers which supply power to a load with a REDUCTION IN POWER CONSUMPTION it is all here and you can join in (teach and learn) while maintaining your anonymity.

GENERATOR WHICH ACCELERATES ON-LOAD AND USES LESS POWER

TRANSFORMER WHICH USES LESS POWER ON-LOAD

"You think I'm an arrogant [expletive] who thinks he's above the law, and I think you're a slime bucket [journalist] who gets most of his facts wrong." ~ Steve Jobs

Kind Regards
Thane

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Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 06, 2011, 05:05:59 PM

I NOTICED THAT IN THE VIDEO YOU SAY THAT, "THE PRIMARY CURRENT DOES NOT CHANGE"
WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE IT ACTUALLY DROPS BY 0.2 mA FROM NO-LOAD TO ON-LOAD?  8)

AM I CORRECT IN WHAT I AM OBSERVING?

I DON'T THINK A CURRENT DROP SHOULD BE UNDERESTIMATED SINCE IT MEANS THAT:

THE SECONDARY DELAYED BEMF FLUX IS ACTUALLY INCREASING THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE CAUSING THE CURRENT TO DROP (REDUCING PRIMARY HEAT AND LOSSES WHILE INCREASING EFFICIENCY

Hi Thane,

Yes you are correct ... it's dropping!
It can be controlled by the AC Frequency sent to the Primary. A higher Frequency will Increase the Primary Impedance even more but it will also start Lowering the Secondary's Current Output Efficiency. So I tuned to have closest to a zero effect on the Primary so the Secondary can stays efficient.

As you know the Delayed Lenz Effect is best when the Secondary has most load (short circuit). Then the Frequency can be dropped much more and still have no Effect on the Primary.

The other interesting thing is this morning I thought of connecting the MOT in REVERSE.
That is, to use the Secondary as Primary and the Primary as Secondary.
The Lenz Delay works the same in this configuration, except you need to send more Voltage to the High Impedance Coil. However, the Current is now in the Micro Amps so who cares.
So if you don't want to work with High Voltage output, use it in this configuration and the low Impedance Coil is Low Voltage but High Current.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 06, 2011, 05:28:13 PM
Hi Luc,

Wonderful video.

Would it be too much trouble to ask to see the scope when the load is applied?

Thanks, Garry

Hi Garry,

I didn't show the Scope Shot when the Secondary is under load as it would probably confuse people.

This is what confused me in all my Prior tests using my SG output through a Shunt Resistor and looking at the RMS reading across it when the Secondary is under load.
The Shunt's RMS readings on the Scope are higher when under load at the Lower Frequencies. It was only at 4.8kHz that the RMS value on the Shunt dropped. However, I can now see that's not the case. Using my H-Bridge and Special Current Meter has revealed that.

If you still wish to see the Scope Shot I'll post it but I don't want to hear what I just explained.

I trust my Special DC Meter more than any Osillyscope ;D

Let me know

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 06, 2011, 05:28:36 PM
Hi Thane,

Yes you are correct ... it's dropping!
As you know the Delayed Lenz Effect is best when the Secondary has most load (short circuit). Then the Frequency can be dropped much more and still have no Effect on the Primary.

The other interesting thing is this morning I thought of connecting the MOT in REVERSE.
That is, to use the Secondary as Primary and the Primary as Secondary.
The Lenz Delay works the same in this configuration, Luc

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE BiTT AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY WAS DESIGNED: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhee#p/u/35/RbRPCt1-WwQ WITH A 300 OHM PRIMARY.

NEXT STOP... INFINITELY EFFICIENT BiTTS WHICH CONSUME ONLY REACTIVE POWER AND DELIVER REAL POWER TO THE LOADS.  http://www.magmet.com/cutcore.php

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 06, 2011, 05:32:49 PM
Oy Vey
The Boss is inviting the whole world to see Overnudity!!
Looks like I'll be cleaning the bathrooms around here  A lot more
than usual...........
CinderFellah indeed !!

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: garrypm on October 06, 2011, 07:19:33 PM
Luc,

Forever the gentleman.

Thanks for the offer to show the shots.

Now I understand, there is no need.

Thanks, Garry
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 06, 2011, 08:29:23 PM
At everyone,

here are 2 Scope Shots with a 49vdc input to H-Bridge @54ma set at 1.28kHz.

At this Frequency the MOT has Zero change in current when the Secondary is under Load (7 watts 120v bulb used in last video)

First Scope Shot is with Green Probe across Primary and Yellow Probe across Open Secondary

Second Scope Shot is with Green Probe across Primary and Yellow Probe across Loaded Secondary (bulb)

BTW, for anyone is interested I changed my 4 MOSFET's on the H-Bridge from IRF640N to IRF540N.
At this Frequency the H-Bridge now consumes 60ua (idle) compared to 120ua prior this small change.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 06, 2011, 10:41:45 PM
Hi Luc,

Would like to comment a few things.

It can be controlled by the AC Frequency sent to the Primary. A higher Frequency will Increase the Primary Impedance even more but it will also start Lowering the Secondary's Current Output Efficiency. So I tuned to have closest to a zero effect on the Primary so the Secondary can stays efficient.

I think this behavior comes from the MOT core laminations poor performance at the increasing frequencies. When you have time you may wish to replace the MOT with the ferrite core having the 7.5H inductance and repeat this test.

On your scope shots above:  green trace has 20V/DIV and the square waveform has 3 vertical heights above the zero line and about 2.1 vertical heights downwards, this gives 5.1 x 20V= 102V peak to peak and the scope displays 208V peak to peak, about twice as many?
The same goes for the yellow trace, it is set to 1kV/DIV and the peak to peak is about 3 up and 2 down again, giving 5kV peak to peak, yet it displays 9.97kV, about twice as many again.  This is not a problem now of course, just I noticed... lol

However, when you have to measure some kV amplitudes, then the normal scope probes may not have the correct ratings, having only 600-700V specification,  so these can easily get damaged from the 4-5kV unloaded tests. There are of course HV probe types manufactured for the some kV range but those are more expensive too.

IT is good you have tested this delayed Lenz effect and hopefully with the better toroidal core quality you can find it again and get higher output power (with the MOT, core loss and secondary coil copper resistance are rather high and limiting factors).

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: plengo on October 06, 2011, 11:18:41 PM
Excellent work Gotluc.

Can you publish the schematic of your H-bridge?

I would like to replicate your work. I do have a MOT and I can build the bridge too.

Thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 07, 2011, 02:58:06 AM
When you have time you may wish to replace the MOT with the ferrite core having the 7.5H inductance and repeat this test.

Hi Gyula,

I did make a Primary on the 7.5H Ferrite Toroid and tested it. I posted the results back on page 15 on the bottom of a reply to you:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301782#msg301782

Anyways, it does only normal transformer action. Maybe the effect has somthing to do with the Steel laminations?

On your scope shots above:  green trace has 20V/DIV and the square waveform has 3 vertical heights above the zero line and about 2.1 vertical heights downwards, this gives 5.1 x 20V= 102V peak to peak and the scope displays 208V peak to peak, about twice as many?
The same goes for the yellow trace, it is set to 1kV/DIV and the peak to peak is about 3 up and 2 down again, giving 5kV peak to peak, yet it displays 9.97kV, about twice as many again.  This is not a problem now of course, just I noticed... lol

I noticed that also. I'll see if they maybe have a newer version of the Software

However, when you have to measure some kV amplitudes, then the normal scope probes may not have the correct ratings, having only 600-700V specification,  so these can easily get damaged from the 4-5kV unloaded tests. There are of course HV probe types manufactured for the some kV range but those are more expensive too.

I do have an expensive High Voltage probe on Channel 2. That's why it's set at x100

Can you have a look at the above Scope Shots as I would like your comments.
Notice on the first Shot how each 50% duty Phases of the H-Bridge to the Primary seem to only effect the Secondary at the beginning of each Phase change. The Secondary seems to have a ringdown like if the rest of the of the on time of the Primary is wasted. Notice on the second Shot (Secondary on load) the voltage on the load drop again like if most of the 50% phase on time is not doing anything to hold the current on the load.

Am I not reading understanding this correctly?

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 07, 2011, 05:55:02 AM
Excellent work Gotluc.

Can you publish the schematic of your H-bridge?

I would like to replicate your work. I do have a MOT and I can build the bridge too.

Thanks,

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

I'm going to be building a new design of H-Bridge that I can adjust the duty cycle since I'm starting to think there maybe wasted current on the fixed 50% duty cycle.
So you may want to wait a week or two and see how my next build will work out.
I don't have a Schematic for my next build yet, it's just going around in my mind at this time. However, I do have some components on delivery.

But if you want to build the one I have which was designed by Groundloop to use components I had on hand (see below) feel free to do so.

Luc

Here is a link for 5 of the IR2103 for \$10 delivered: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-IR2103-DIP-IC-NEW-/190481621070?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5996e04e
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on October 07, 2011, 09:03:55 AM
If one would use you circuit and hook it up to a signal generator (with variable duty cycle) then no change to circuit is necessary to have a variable duty cycle in output AC signal?
Or am I wrong?

Thank you,
Frenky

EDIT:
I see that the first chip is flipflop so I guess it wouldn't work...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 07, 2011, 10:09:50 AM

Hi Gyula,

I did make a Primary on the 7.5H Ferrite Toroid and tested it. I posted the results back on page 15 on the bottom of a reply to you:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301782#msg301782

Anyways, it does only normal transformer action. Maybe the effect has somthing to do with the Steel laminations?

Hi Luc,  sorry I must have skipped over it, maybe this effect manifests at an even higher frequency than 2MHz for this kind of transformer. How high frequency can you go up to with the signal generator I wonder.
IT is sure the 7.5H winding on this toroidal core has got a much less self capacitance than in case of the MOT's secondary and I am also sure the laminated core in the MOT fails to maintain its permeability in the kHz range and starts diminishing significantly and nonlinearly.

Re on scope numerical display error of 2: yes it could be due to software and the manufacturer should be aware of that by now.
OK on your HV scope probe!

Quote
Notice on the first Shot how each 50% duty Phases of the H-Bridge to the Primary seem to only effect the Secondary at the beginning of each Phase change. The Secondary seems to have a ringdown like if the rest of the of the on time of the Primary is wasted. Notice on the second Shot (Secondary on load) the voltage on the load drop again like if most of the 50% phase on time is not doing anything to hold the current on the load.

Yes you noticed it correctly. This is the usual behavior when a transformer is driven with square wave: during the on time of the pulse the pulse amplitude does not change hence no current can change in the coil (pulse amplitude is horizontal)  so no induction can take place during this time.

Here is a variable duty cycle pulse generator for driving H bridges from Groundloop:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=819.0 I suggest using also the CMOS type LMC555C or TLC55C timers, they work up to about 3MHz.
This would be good for futuristic too  ;)

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 07, 2011, 01:53:56 PM
Hi Luc,  sorry I must have skipped over it, maybe this effect manifests at an even higher frequency than 2MHz for this kind of transformer.

Quote
Hi Gyula,

Anyways, it does only normal transformer action. Maybe the effect has somthing to do with the Steel laminations?

WE LOOKED AT USING FERRITE LAST YEAR FOR THE BiTT WITH A LICENSEE IN EUROPE BUT THE POWER FACTOR WAS 1 ON NO-LOAD WHICH WAS NOT USEFUL AT ALL AND I THINK LUC AND I TRIED METGLAS AT OTTAWA U IN 2008 - WHICH WAS GIVEN TO US BY CARL, DO YOU REMEMBER LUC? ANYWAY PERHAPS LUC CAN VERIFY THIS WITH HIS FERRITE TOROID?

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 07, 2011, 02:18:54 PM
Oy Vey
The Boss is inviting the whole world to see Overnudity!!
Chet

WELL CHET YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY... "IF THE SHOE FITS"AND WE DO NEED EXPOSURE 8) BUT MORE THAN THAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE REMINDED OF WHAT REAL HUMAN COOPERATION LOOKS LIKE.

MY POSITION HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT THE WORLD OUGHT TO HAVE A "MONTREAL PROTOCOL ON ENERGY ALTERNATIVES WITH GLOBAL COOPERATION SANCTIONED BY THE UN" WITH THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE TO SAVE THE PLANET RATHER THAN EXPLOITING THE GLOBAL WARMING ISSUE TO CAPITALIZE FINANCIALLY AS AL GORE AND HIS BUDDIES AT KLEINER PERKINS CAUFIELD & BYERS ARE DOING.

THE MONTREAL PROTOCOL PROVED THAT IT CAN WORK AND WE ARE ALL PROVING IT HERE AS WELL.  :D

CHEERS
T

The Montreal Protocol on Substances That Deplete the Ozone Layer (a protocol to the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer) is an international treaty designed to protect the ozone layer by phasing out the production of numerous substances believed to be responsible for ozone depletion. The treaty was opened for signature on September 16, 1987, and entered into force on January 1, 1989, followed by a first meeting in Helsinki, May 1989. Since then, it has undergone seven revisions, in 1990 (London), 1991 (Nairobi), 1992 (Copenhagen), 1993 (Bangkok), 1995 (Vienna), 1997 (Montreal), and 1999 (Beijing). It is believed that if the international agreement is adhered to, the ozone layer is expected to recover by 2050. Due to its widespread adoption and implementation it has been hailed as an example of exceptional international co-operation, with Kofi Annan quoted as saying that "perhaps the single most successful international agreement to date has been the Montreal Protocol".It has been ratified by 196 states.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 07, 2011, 03:41:46 PM
HOW DOES ONE START A NEW FORUM TOPIC FOR THE INFO BELOW? ??? Thanks Thane

"We can't set up independent scientific juries every time a company or individual comes forward and makes a extraordinary claim about a technology that can benefit the world." ~ Tyler Hamiltom, Adjunct Professor University of Toronto and Cleantech Blogger at Cleanbreak.

OK THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS BALONEY, SO...

"MONTREAL PROTOCOL" FOR ENERGY ALTERNATIVES AND WORLD BENEFITTING TECHNOLOGIES

POTENTIAL DIFFERENCE INC. IS STARTING A NEW IP COMMERCIALIZATION COMPANY CALLED E-MOTION TECHNOLOGIES INC. WITH THE AIM OF ASSISTING IN THE WORLDWIDE EVALUATION AND COMMERCIALIZATION OF EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES WHICH CAN BENEFIT THE PLANET EARTH AND PROVIDE A FAIR FINANCIAL RETURN FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.

THE DEVELOPMENT OF NON-EXPLOITIVE BUSINESS PRACTICES AND MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL SYNERGIES BETWEEN VARIOUS TECHNOLOGIES WILL ALSO BE ONE OF THE KEY MANDATES AS WELL.

IF YOU HAVE A TECHNOLOGY WHICH IS AT THE PROTOTYPE STAGE WHICH NEEDS TO BE EVALUATED, FURTHER DEVELOPED OR COMMERCIALIZED BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES, ARE UNAWARE OF POSSIBLE SYNERGIES WITH OTHER TECHNOLOGIES OR THE MARKETING ROUTES TO DO SO PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

KIND REGARDS
Thane

Thane C. Heins
President & CEO
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca

"How do we make the world work for 100% of humanity in the shortest possible time
-through spontaneous cooperation without ecological damage or disadvantage to anyone"
~ Dr. R. Buckminster Fuller
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: shimondoodkin on October 07, 2011, 06:15:01 PM
idea for a test:
maybe to make DC of the output (maybe like diode bridge + capacitor filter) and measure it under different loads
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 07, 2011, 06:25:13 PM
Boss,
Does this work?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11455.msg301981#msg301981

Chet
PS
If Not
Scroll to news section  "click"
Look up top right for "new Topic"   "Click"

Wallah..........
PPS
I didn't put the UnderNudity flag in??
And I see our OverNudity Flag is Missing??? [do we have one?]
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 07, 2011, 07:37:47 PM
Boss,
Does this work?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11455.msg301981#msg301981

Chet
PS

Wallah..........
PPS
I didn't put the UnderNudity flag in??
And I see our OverNudity Flag is Missing??? [do we have one?]

THANKS RAMSET!

ASK IRON TO SEND YOU A PICTURE OF THE OVERNUDITY POSEE DON'T POST IT THOUGH AS IT MAY OFFEND SOME HORSE LOVERS.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 07, 2011, 08:22:09 PM
Hi everyone,

I have an update.

I removed the 4013 Flip-Flop from my H-Bridge and connected the two outputs of a SG3525 PWM which does flip flop but with pulse with adjustment.

Works great :D... so I now have an H-Bridge with adjustable Frequency and Pulse Width

See below (basic) schematic I found on the internet and made some small mods like a rotary switch to be able to select different cap values to change Frequency range and also have 2 pots in series (one high resistance and one low) to be able to fine tune Frequency once in range where you want it.

I started testing the MOT by reducing the pulse width and found it was reducing the Secondary Current output in a linear way. So not much was wasted with the prior 50% duty cycle.
However, I found that as I reduced the duty cycle I noticed I could drop the Frequency and still get the same effect (not affecting the Primary Current) with load on the Secondary .
I was able to drop the Frequency down to 60Hz but the duty cycle maybe at 1% more or less. It's just at the minimum pulse width output of the SG3525 but it does work. See scope shots below.

Green Probe across Primary and Yellow Probe across Secondary
First scope shot is Primary @60Hz with 63vdc @740ua with 1% duty cycle and Open Secondary
Second scope shot is Primary @60Hz with 63vdc @740ua with 1% duty cycle and 22 Ohms load on Secondary

My question is, at this Frequency and pulse width does this still work with Overunityguide's Lenz Delay explanation?

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 07, 2011, 10:44:52 PM
maybe this effect manifests at an even higher frequency than 2MHz for this kind of transformer. How high frequency can you go up to with the signal generator I wonder.
IT is sure the 7.5H winding on this toroidal core has got a much less self capacitance than in case of the MOT's secondary and I am also sure the laminated core in the MOT fails to maintain its permeability in the kHz range and starts diminishing significantly and nonlinearly.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

my Signal Generator is 2MHz Max.
I had already tested the Ferrite Toroid with my H-Bridge without success so I decided to try it with the output of my SG.

At 2Mhz the effect starts, see Scope shots. However I have nothing else to test it with that has a Higher Frequency or output. Also, you can forget about using an H-Bridge at these frequencies.

Green Probe is Current across 1 Ohm and Yellow probe is Voltage
First Scope Shot is Ferrite Toroid Primary @2MHz with Secondary Open
Second Scope Shot is Ferrite Toroid Primary @2MHz with Secondary on 22 Ohm Load
Third Scope Shot is Ferrite Toroid Primary @2MHz with Secondary on 22 Ohm Load with Voltage Probe across Load

That's about all I can do at this time

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 07, 2011, 11:43:14 PM
Hi Luc,

it seems the input current gets reduced a little when the secondary coil is loaded with the 20 Ohm. So the 'effect' is there and surely at higher than 2 MHz frequency you could find a 90Â° phase difference between input voltage and current.
At 2MHz a wire wound resistor has got inductive reactance too which adds to the normal DC resistance value, causing the 1 Ohm to be a a little bit higher than 1 Ohm. The same is especially true for a 20 Ohm wire wound resistor because it must have more turns to get the higher resistance. This latter is which may count if someone attempts to calculate output power from the output rms voltage and the 20 Ohm values. Otherwise it does not matter much, only can slightly modify the resultant phase shift as an addition.  One more thing: if you happen to have a 10pF or max 22pF capacitor at hand, try to connect in parallel with the secondary, this can bring down the natural resonance of the secondary (7.5H) coil maybe under 2MHz.  IF you do not have any cap, you can twist two 15-20 cm long enameled or plactic insulated wire together, connect the two wires of one  end to the secondary and leave the other two wire ends of the twist open.  This would make a 15-25pF or so capacitor, depending on the tightness of the twist. You can also cut the length to reduce the 'cap' value.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 08, 2011, 02:55:28 PM

Green Probe is Current across 1 Ohm and Yellow probe is Voltage

VOLTAGE = PRIMARY VOLTAGE?

Quote
First Scope Shot is Ferrite Toroid Primary @2MHz with Secondary Open

POWER FACTOR IS NOT GOOD, I.E. ALMOST 1

Quote
Second Scope Shot is Ferrite Toroid Primary @2MHz with Secondary on 22 Ohm Load

CURRENT DEREASES BY 50mV OR 6.8% WHICH IS GOOD  :)
POWER FACTOR SHIFTS BY ABOUT 10 DEGREES TOWARDS 1 BECOMING MORE RESISTIVE = NOT SO GOOD  :-[

SOME OF THE LOAD PF IS BEING REFLECTED BACK ONTO THE PRIMARY.

Quote
Third Scope Shot is Ferrite Toroid Primary @2MHz with Secondary on 22 Ohm Load with Voltage Probe across Load

PRIMARY VOLTAGE AND LOAD CURRENT PHASE ANGLES MEANS NOTHING HOWEVER IF YOU CAN MOVE THE YELLOW PROBE TO THE SHUNT (PRIMARY CURRENT) THIS WOULD TELL US WHAT EFFECT LOAD PF IS HAVING ON THE PRIMARY... I.E. IS THE SHIFT 10 DEGREES AS ABOVE?

THE ONLY THING THAT IS OF ANY RELEVANCE IS THE PRIMARY CURRENT AND POWER FACTOR. MOST IMPORTANT IS THE SHUNT PROBE - REMOVING THAT REMOVES OUR REFERENCE POINT FOR OBSERVATION.

GOOD SCIENCE IS GOOD OBSERVATION AND YOU NEED A 4 CHANNEL SCOPE IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE MOVING PROBES AROUND BECAUSE WE NEED TO MAINTAIN OUR REFERENCE POINT. (THAT IS WHY I AM BRINGING YOU MY SCOPE TODAY... IF YOU ARE NOT OUT SAILING?)  8)

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 08, 2011, 03:11:31 PM
SAILING??
NOBODY TOLD ME THERE WAS AN OVER NUDITY  SAILING TRIP!!

:P

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 08, 2011, 03:38:11 PM
SAILING??
NOBODY TOLD ME THERE WAS AN OVER NUDITY  SAILING TRIP!!
:P
Chet

YOU HAVE SOME BATHROOMS TO CLEAN FIRST MISTER!
WE MAY HAVE GUESTS COMING OVER FOR THANKSGIVING DINNER.

T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 08, 2011, 04:16:10 PM
GOOD ............
Swab your own decks,See If I care!!

Sigh.....
Overnudity sailing one of my last Vices.............

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 08, 2011, 04:50:24 PM
GOOD ............
Swab your own decks,See If I care!!
Chet

AFTER YOU ARE DONE WITH THE BATHROOMS YOU HAVE TO CHECK ON OUG TO SEE HOW HE IS DOING WITH HIS CHORES  :P NOW THAT HE IS HOME FROM HIS "BUSINESS TRIP".

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 08, 2011, 04:58:08 PM
GOOD SCIENCE IS GOOD OBSERVATION AND YOU NEED A 4 CHANNEL SCOPE IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE MOVING PROBES AROUND BECAUSE WE NEED TO MAINTAIN OUR REFERENCE POINT. (THAT IS WHY I AM BRINGING YOU MY SCOPE TODAY... IF YOU ARE NOT OUT SAILING?)  8)

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane,

it's a nice day today but no wind so no Sailing.

So come on down with your Scope and bring me your Bifilar coil if you can. I have an idea how to test it in a Solid State way (no moving parts).

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 08, 2011, 05:01:24 PM
Hi Thane,

it's a nice day today but no wind so no Sailing.

So come on down with your Scope and bring me your Bifilar coil if you can. I have an idea how to test it in a Solid State way (no moving parts).

Luc

Also, if you have a Signal Generator that can go over 2MHz please bring that over also.

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 08, 2011, 05:13:56 PM
Hello Guys,

As I had promised, today I should supply you with my input / output cop measurements regarding my MOT 950 Hz Experiment... (I will advice you, hold on to your seat...)

Input power going to the primary coil:
Calculated by I2*R (R primary coil) = 0.1A*0.1A*1.8Ohms = 0.018Watts
(This can be calculated this way, because the primary coil is running purely reactive at 950Hz)

Output power secondary coil going to the LED Light Bulb:
First I have to make a correction, in one of my previous posts, I have said that this value was about: 0.94Watts But Unfortunately after doing exact measurements with my scope on the secondary's connected load I had to conclude that it was actually running on: 36V at 0.0091A going to the LED Light Bulb, which gives us: 36V*0.0091A=0.327Watts going to the LED Light Bulb. (with the U and I running in phase)

At the end this will give us a (theoretical) cop of: 0.327/0.018 = 18

But I have to say, for now it only works on small loads... I also have tried connecting a 40Watts/240V rated incandescent light as a load with running the primary on higher (more dangerous voltage levels), and there no Lenz Delay was happening at higher power values... But for now it is a beginning of something new and unexplored...

And further I have to mention, that of course in the MOT experiment my frequency drive controller is consuming a whopping 17.5 Watts only to run Idle. So when you compare this to the 0.327Watts at the output, I must agree that in this way there is no overunity yet... But of course my mostly inefficient frequency drive controller can be replaced with much better and efficient (at lower power ratings) Mosfet H bridge controllers. And further in the video you saw that when comparing the loaded state (18.5 Watts) compared to the primary coil disconnected state (17.5 Watts) Will give you a 1 Watt difference in required input power, which is of course also bigger than the 0.327 Watts output. But this has to do with the primary running purely reactive, for which there is in my MOT experiment no power factor correcting capacitor connected to my primary coil, which can be done in higher efficient replications of my MOT experiment also.

So for now to conclude in short, my MOT experiment is showing that some interesting effects can take place in MOT like transformers running at a higher frequency. But for now I do think that a lot of experimenting (read: try to run on higher power values) needs to be done.

My Related MOT Experiment can be found on:

And at gotoluc I would like to say: Good Work Dude...

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 08, 2011, 06:21:40 PM
But I have to say, for now it only works on small loads... I also have tried connecting a 40Watts/240V rated incandescent light as a load with running the primary on higher (more dangerous voltage levels), and there no Lenz Delay was happening at higher power values...

WHAT IS THE RESISTANCE OF THAT LARGER INCANDESCENT BULB THAT MAY BE AFFECTING YOUR LENZ DELAY WHICH WOULD REQUIRED A HIGHER FREQUENCY TO COMPENSATE WHICH YOU CAN'T DO WITH YOUR FREQUENCY DRIVE CONTROLLER BUT YOU CAN DO IF YOU USE YOUR GENERATOR AS YOUR INPUT TO YOUR MOT...

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 08, 2011, 10:46:19 PM
WHAT IS THE RESISTANCE OF THAT LARGER INCANDESCENT BULB THAT MAY BE AFFECTING YOUR LENZ DELAY WHICH WOULD REQUIRED A HIGHER FREQUENCY TO COMPENSATE WHICH YOU CAN'T DO WITH YOUR FREQUENCY DRIVE CONTROLLER BUT YOU CAN DO IF YOU USE YOUR GENERATOR AS YOUR INPUT TO YOUR MOT...

CHEERS
T

I have just measured it and (cold) it is about: 96 Ohms. But when we do the math... we get: R=U2/P = (240V*240V)/40Watts = 1440 Ohms (hot)

So indeed this can be way to high for my 950Hz which I am Applying...
But unfortunately, 950 Hz is the upper Limit of my Frequency Drive Controller. So for higher frequencies we do need to get our own H Bridge / microcontroller circuitry. So gotoluc is on the right way by now.

My Related MOT Experiment:

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 08, 2011, 11:58:41 PM

TO THANE

Hi Thane,

I come across your patent application 2602439 Toroid generator coil and in its last page where the Figures are usually placed it is written:
"Fig 1 and Fig 2: unscannable items received with this application"

Can I see those Figures please?

rgds,  Gyula

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 09, 2011, 01:07:15 AM
TO THANE

Hi Thane,

I come across your patent application 2602439 Toroid generator coil and in its last page where the Figures are usually placed it is written:
"Fig 1 and Fig 2: unscannable items received with this application"

Can I see those Figures please?
rgds,  Gyula

DEAR GYULA,

THAT'S FUNNY THEY DID THE SAME THING WITH MY "INFINITY GENERATOR" PROVISIONAL PATENT.
TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I FORGOT ABOUT THAT APPLICATION.
LET ME ROOT AROUND IN MY FILES TO SEE IF I CAN FIND THE ACTUAL FILING DIAGRAMS AND I WILL POST IT ASAP.

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR SPECIFICALLY?

ALSO CAN YOU POST THE LINK?

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 09, 2011, 01:12:19 AM
Peter Davey Replication TODAY
Here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7096-peter-davey-heater-4.html#post161435

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 09, 2011, 01:15:01 AM
So indeed this can be way to high for my 950Hz which I am Applying...
But unfortunately, 950 Hz is the upper Limit of my Frequency Drive Controller. So for higher frequencies we do need to get our own H Bridge / microcontroller circuitry. So gotoluc is on the right way by now.
With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

I WILL REQUEST (AGAIN) THAT YOU USE YOUR GENERATOR OUTPUT AS THE INPUT TO YOUR MOT   :P... YOUR INDUCTION MOTOR IS OPERATING AT 950 HZ BUT YOUR GENERATOR MUST BE AT ABOUT 2700 HZ OR SO.

I JUST THINK THIS WOULD A COOL VIDEO  8)...

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 09, 2011, 01:34:59 AM
Hello Guys,

As I had promised, today I should supply you with my input / output cop measurements regarding my MOT 950 Hz Experiment... (I will advice you, hold on to your seat...)

At the end this will give us a (theoretical) cop of: 0.327/0.018 = 18

But I have to say, for now it only works on small loads...

And further I have to mention, that of course in the MOT experiment my frequency drive controller is consuming a whopping 17.5 Watts only to run Idle.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

DEAR OUG,

THE EFFICIENCY OF A TRANSFORMER IS CALCULATED BY THE OUTPUT POWER TO A LOAD DIVIDED BY THE INPUT TO THE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY.

THAT IS IT...!  :D

THE FREQUENCY OF A CONVENTIONAL ELECTRIC VEHICLE GENERATOR CAN EASILY BE 950 HZ OR EVEN HIGHER SO YOUR SIMPLE PROCESS MAY WORK VERY WELL AND ONCE CONVERTED TO DC THE FREQUENCY IS A NON ISSUE.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 09, 2011, 07:45:16 AM
Hi everyone,

I built a transformer with a Bifilar Coil as Secondary.

Thane has suggested he uses Bifilar Coils in his Generator so I was thinking good chances are that same effect could work in a Transformer.

I have tested it and it works the same ;D
The big advantage is, now we can save Tons of Wire and have Low Coil Resistance which translates to more Current to the Load.
So put away your MOT's and make yourself a Transformer with a Bifilar Coil ;)

@Overunityguide, can you or someone do the math on the efficiency. Thank you

Luc

Data of Coils and Electrical:

Primary DC Resistance 79 Ohms
Primary Inductance 665mH
Secondary DC Resistance 8 Ohms
Secondary Inductance 418mH

Idle H-Bridge (not connected to primary)
Input Voltage 62.7vdc
H-Bridge Current wasted 30ua

H-Bridge Connected to Primary
Input Voltage 62.4vdc

Load on Secondary is 150 Ohms @ 4.10 Volts RMS

Scope Sots below are Orange is Current Probe across 1 Ohm Shunt, Light Blue is Voltage Probe across the Coil and Purple is Probe across the 150 Ohm Load on Secondary
First Scope Shot is No Load on Secondary
Second Scope Shot is 150 Ohm Load on Secondary
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nul-points on October 09, 2011, 08:21:54 AM
Hi everyone,
[...]
or someone do the math on the efficiency. Thank you

Luc
[...]

hi Luc

assuming that the scope is presenting True (calculated) RMS values (which appears to be the case, looking at the 'square wave' values):

i/p power to primary would appear to be approx 2W

o/p power in 150 ohm load would appear to be approx 100mW

efficiency approx 5% - is this the calc you wanted?

HTH
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 09, 2011, 08:38:48 AM
hi Luc

assuming that the scope is presenting True (calculated) RMS values (which appears to be the case, looking at the 'square wave' values):

i/p power to primary would appear to be approx 2W

o/p power in 150 ohm load would appear to be approx 100mW

efficiency approx 5% - is this the calc you wanted?

HTH

Hi NP

No I don't think so

For Total Input I calculate 62.4vdc @ 8.3ma = 0.51792 Watts
This is the Total Input Power to the Transformer. However the 79 Ohm Primary is eating most of that in its Resistance. So to be fare we need to factor that out to find the true power transfer available to the Secondary. However, this is where I need help.

The output is 4.10 Volts RMS on a 150 Ohm load = 0.1121 Watts

Thanks anyways

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nul-points on October 09, 2011, 09:08:06 AM
Hi NP

No I don't think so

For Total Input I calculate 62.4vdc @ 8.3ma = 0.51792 Watts
This is the Total Input Power to the Transformer. However the 79 Ohm Primary is eating most of that in its Resistance. So to be fare we need to factor that out to find the true power transfer available to the Secondary. However, this is where I need help.

The output is 4.10 Volts RMS on a 150 Ohm load = 0.1121 Watts

Thanks anyways

Luc

hi again Luc

you want the efficiency of the transformer, is that correct?

if so, you don't need to include the power used by your H-bridge

your scope shows 32mV RMS across a 1 ohm shunt - this equates to a current of 32mA RMS

you don't state shunt location explicitly but it appears to be on the primary side of the transformer
(because the waveform is not in phase with the voltage across the 150 ohm output load resistor)

so my calc for i/p power = 61.5 * 0.032 = 1.97W (approx 2W)

my calc for your o/p power is 4.1 * 0.027 =  0.1107W (approx 100mW)

hence my calc of your transformer efficiency**  is approx (0.1 / 2) * 100 = 5%

HTH

[EDIT:  ** for this frequency and load]
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 09, 2011, 11:48:50 AM
so my calc for i/p power = 61.5 * 0.032 = 1.97W (approx 2W)

@nul-points, sorry but I have to give you 'zero points' for your input calculation. (please don't take it personal)

I say this because you are forgetting one very important parameter which also should be added in your input power calculation. This one important parameter is the phase angle (power factor) between current and voltage at the primary side of the transformer... So when comparing the loaded state with the unloaded state of gotoluc's bifilar secondary's transformer. You can see that in the loaded state this phase angle is becoming higher.
(So read: more to 90 degrees). Further you can see that the amperage to the primary went up when connecting the load, but that in relation with this the phase angle (power factor) also becomes bigger.
Those two related parameters (primary amperage and phase angle) are why you don't see any change in the total input power in gotoluc's very need input power measurement setup.

my calc for your o/p power is 4.1 * 0.027 =  0.1107W (approx 100mW)

@nul-points, this is where I totally agree with you, so it looks like that there is for now 0.1107W coming out of the transformer for no noticeable input power change at all!

@Thane & Gotoluc... Great work and great cooperation guys. And if I may give one suggestion, maybe it is better to replace the input coil in the setup with a low Ohms / high current one, so that more usable power can be transferred to the secondary. And maybe try to run it at some higher frequency settings (1000Hz/1500Hz). But I am sure that you already thought about this...

So than again: Great work.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 09, 2011, 12:17:03 PM
DEAR GYULA,

THAT'S FUNNY THEY DID THE SAME THING WITH MY "INFINITY GENERATOR" PROVISIONAL PATENT.
TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I FORGOT ABOUT THAT APPLICATION.
LET ME ROOT AROUND IN MY FILES TO SEE IF I CAN FIND THE ACTUAL FILING DIAGRAMS AND I WILL POST IT ASAP.

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR SPECIFICALLY?

ALSO CAN YOU POST THE LINK?

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane,

http://brevets-patents.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/2602439/summary.html?type=number_search

I simply wished to see the Figures to better understand your setup described in the application.

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 09, 2011, 01:07:34 PM
Hi Folks,

Regarding the efficiency calculations I think the main power source for this setup is the battery bank, it supplies 62.4V DC voltage and the current taken is about 8.3mA  (83mV/10 Ohm) so this gives a total input power of 0.517W.

If we can agree on this half a watt input power than the the efficiency of the H-bridge is what comes into the picture next and I suppose here it has a 90% efficiency, this reduces the possible input power to the transformer to 0.517*0.9=0.465W.

Now the transformer efficiency is (0.1107/0.465)*100=23.8%  (Note: This depends on the efficiency number we consider for the H-bridge.)

When a load connected to the mains consumes only reactive current, the reactive current has to come from somewhere and it is also the mains, though most watthours meters do not measure it...  hence when you wish to create the reactive current you have to furnish real power first.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nul-points on October 09, 2011, 01:52:51 PM
@nul-points, sorry but I have to give you 'zero points' for your input calculation. (please don't take it personal)

I say this because you are forgetting one very important parameter which also should be added in your input power calculation.
[...]
With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

i agree - my bad - i regarded the i/p as from a single-ended driver, but of course, although Luc has a unipolar DC i/p supply, he is using an H-bridge!

with 32mA RMS i/p current (measured on the 1 ohm shunt) and a bipolar 61.5 RMS i/p voltage (measured across the primary coil) the average power i/p is approx 0.55W

so the transformer efficiency = 0.1107 / 0.55 = approx 20%
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 09, 2011, 02:02:52 PM
DEAR LUC,

YOUR H BRIDGE IS A THING OF BEAUTY 8) BUT

HERE IS MY SUGGESTION...

REPLACE THE PRIMARY IN THE BiTT WITH THE BI-FILAR BECAUSE IT "APPEARS" TO BE GIVING SOME GOOD LENZ DELAY.

THEN RUN THE BiTT WITH 60 HZ SINE WAVE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS THEN TWEAK THE FREQUENCY TO SEE WHERE YOU GET THE BEST PERFORMANCE.

THEN ONCE YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED SOME GOOD RESULTS GO BACK TO DC STUFF WITH THE AC STUFF AS YOUR POINT OF REFERENCE.  :P

BUT BEFORE YOU DO THAT I WOULD (INDEPENDENTLY) TEST THE BiTT AS IS JUST TO SEE WHERE IT IS AT AS WELL SO YOU WILL KNOW IF THE BI-FILAR PRIMARY PROVIDES BETTER PERFORMANCE.

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 09, 2011, 02:30:09 PM
DEAR LUC,

YOUR H BRIDGE IS A THING OF BEAUTY 8) BUT

HERE IS MY SUGGESTION...

REPLACE THE PRIMARY IN THE BiTT WITH THE BI-FILAR BECAUSE IT "APPEARS" TO BE GIVING SOME GOOD LENZ DELAY.

THEN RUN THE BiTT WITH 60 HZ SINE WAVE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS THEN TWEAK THE FREQUENCY TO SEE WHERE YOU GET THE BEST PERFORMANCE.

THEN ONCE YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED SOME GOOD RESULTS GO BACK TO DC STUFF WITH THE AC STUFF AS YOUR POINT OF REFERENCE.  :P

BUT BEFORE YOU DO THAT I WOULD (INDEPENDENTLY) TEST THE BiTT AS IS JUST TO SEE WHERE IT IS AT AS WELL SO YOU WILL KNOW IF THE BI-FILAR PRIMARY PROVIDES BETTER PERFORMANCE.

CHEERS
T

Hi Thane,

I agree!

This will be my next step and in the exact way you suggest.

I just couldn't resist :D to test the Bifilar Coil to see if it worked also in a transformer application.

I'll be out all day today so it will go to Monday or later for results

Thanks for all your help Thane

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wattsup on October 09, 2011, 05:05:05 PM
@gotoluc

What's do'in.

Since Thane loaned you his BiTT transformer coil that has the three coils. S1-Primary-S2. Consider this.

Take one secondary and call it a primary. The other secondary is your 1st secondary. The center primary is your 2nd secondary or your main output. Now if the two original secondaries are wound identical, maybe consider removing 1/2 % (or less) of the winding from the new primary. Or just try this as is for now.

So you now have Primary-Main Output-Secondary.

Now pulse the primary to attain the secondary resonance and check that output and see what the output is on the Main Output. The idea here is that if the primary is pulsed to the secondary resonance, it will be consuming very little energy making it easier for the secondary to return its output back to the primary. Now if at the same time the Main Output can produce juice, well, well, you may have a winner.

Actually this general idea came to me while working on the SM TPUs as I think this is the base idea of how it works, except in the SM TPU I am trying with a core of insulated baling wire and is also the output. So in my present tests the core is used to transfer coupling energy from primary to secondary plus also giving output itself. lol

I had prepared the image below a few days ago but waited to post it because I thought it was not the right moment. I am very curious to know what the resonant frequencies are on the BiTT as we know Thane only runs the thing at 60hz.

Maybe one other note on MOTs.

The second image I had done in 2008 to show how to grind one of the top laminated welds that permits you to just pry off the top laminated section with a good side hit using a hammer. Now if you had two identical MOTS, you take one of them and remove the top laminate. This proves that the top laminate block is only held there with the welds and that the metal lamination plates are not inter twinned with the other vertical laminate sides. So if you take this cut MOT and now secure the cut end against the top block of the second complete MOT, this will give you a MOT with two primaries and two secondaries. Of course this is not a BiTT replication but it does give you so many other ways to drive it like putting both primaries in series, etc, etc. Actually the cut MOT could also be used as a pick-up coil when using rotating wheel magnets.

Besides that, hope everything is well in Camelot.

wattsup

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 09, 2011, 10:54:29 PM
I WILL REQUEST (AGAIN) THAT YOU USE YOUR GENERATOR OUTPUT AS THE INPUT TO YOUR MOT   :P... YOUR INDUCTION MOTOR IS OPERATING AT 950 HZ BUT YOUR GENERATOR MUST BE AT ABOUT 2700 HZ OR SO.

I JUST THINK THIS WOULD A COOL VIDEO  8)...

CHEERS
T

Dear Thane,

Today I have tried to speed up my motor generator a bit more... But unfortunately I come across some practical problems when doing this...

My biggest problem when trying to run this setup on higher frequencies is that above 150 Hz going to my normal induction motor the rotor slip becomes too big. So above 150 Hz my rotor goes out sink and after a while results in a total dead stop of my rotor...

Although this phenomenon could be expected, because each induction motor has its own U/f characteristics. Which means that at higher frequencies the frequency drive controller must supply a higher voltage.
(this to compensate for the stator coils impedances)
But in my case the highest possible voltage to drive my motor with is 240V and this upper limited value is reached at 50 Hz. Which means that at 150 Hz, my controller still is supplying 240 Volts. Where in this case it has to be 720V to stay on the same torque figures...

So to conclude, the highest possible value to run my motor generator with is 150Hz, which will result in 450Hz coming from my generator coil. So you see the 950Hz (direct from my frequency drive controller) is still the highest frequency for which I can test things on...

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 10, 2011, 12:14:47 AM
Dear Thane,

Today I have tried to speed up my motor generator a bit more... But unfortunately I come across some practical problems when doing this...

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

DEAR O.U.G.

WHEN EDISON WAS WORKING ON THE LIGHT BULB HE WAS ASKED BY SOMEONE (PROBABLY A REPORTER) IF HE WAS JUST WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME AFTER 10,000 TRIES. HE SAID, "NOT AT ALL WE HAVE SIMPLY IDENTIFIED 10,000 THINGS THAT DON'T WORK."

SO UNLESS WE ARE WILLING TO TRY (AND FAIL) WE CAN'T REALLY KNOW FOR SURE WHICH IS JUST A DIFFERENT FORM OF SUCCESS.

NICE TRY ANYWAY AND FOR TEACHING US ALL SOMETHING NEW.  ;)

CHEERS
T

BTW - WHAT IS YOUR NEXT PROJECT/VIDEO THAT YOU ARE GOING TO DAZZLE US WITH?  8)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 10, 2011, 12:27:23 AM
@gotoluc

Consider this.

Take one secondary and call it a primary. The other secondary is your 1st secondary. The center primary is your 2nd secondary or your main output. Now if the two original secondaries are wound identical, maybe consider removing 1/2 % (or less) of the winding from the new primary. Or just try this as is for now.

So you now have Primary-Main Output-Secondary.

Now pulse the primary to attain the secondary resonance and check that output and see what the output is on the Main Output. The idea here is that if the primary is pulsed to the secondary resonance, it will be consuming very little energy making it easier for the secondary to return its output back to the primary. Now if at the same time the Main Output can produce juice, well, well, you may have a winner.

wattsup

HELLO WATTSUP,

CAN YOU USE THE FOLLOWING DRAWING SUPPLIED BY TESLASET TO SHOW THE PROPOSED FLUX PATH ROUTES... THAT YOU ARE PROPOSING IN YOUR PROPOSAL TO LUC?

IE TIME = 1 PRIMARY FLUX
TIME = 2 SECONDARY FLUX ROUTES

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wattsup on October 10, 2011, 03:02:46 AM
@CRANKYpants

Wow, you are asking something pretty tricky since this had not been done yet. Your tests were done with AC but this proposal is to try DC pulses, hence the same direction and also not only at 60hz but at much higher frequencies to attain resonance levels that your AC tests would never have seen.

But I gave it an educated shot to show flux path leaves the top of the primary and goes two ways, one up and one towards the center core where you have the Main Output Coil (MOC). The flux to goes down into the secondary coil and exit that coil one towards the primary and two towards the center core again.

What I am thinking is when you start the pulsing, it will take some time for the core to ramp up so you should see a gradual increase of output on both the Secondary and also on the MOC.

The secondary should show a DC output waveform. This is all theoretical but the MOC should show a totally different waveform closer to a very dense AC or double DC or + and - DC waveform. I had hoped someone would try your BiTT coil with DC for a long time now and hopefully @gotoluc will have a chance to do some experiments. There is no rush.

Also, @gotolucs 2Mhz limit should me high enough to reach some resonance levels since the now Primary has many winds.

One thing though about DC pulsing in wound coils. The tests can be done with the coil as is but you can also try pulsing the primary with any other type of coil in series to the primary coil and see what the differences are. If my hunch is correct, you should see more output from the secondary and the MOC when another coil is in series with the primary. In this case the primary should be on the pulsed side. The reason for that is complicated but it would be a good test just to show the differences. We can always get into the whys afterwards. The series coil should have at least 50% or more of the primary inductance.

Ahhhhhhh. What a great weekend and Monday off. More time to work on the bench. lol

wattsup

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 10, 2011, 05:43:53 PM
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL MY FELLOW CANADIAN TURKEY GOBBLERS OUT THERE!  :)
CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 15, 2011, 05:31:19 AM
Hi everyone,

I have an update on the Transformer Delayed Lenz Effect.

The below Scope Shots are:
Ch 1 Yellow Probe is 10 Ohm Shunt Resistor, Ch 2 Lt. Blue is Coil Voltage, Ch 3 Purple is Secondary Coil 10 Ohm Load and Ch 4 is Resonator Coil 10 Ohm Load

First is Transformer @ 60Hz no Load
Second is Transformer @ 60Hz with Secondary on 10 Ohm Load
Third is Transformer @ 60Hz with Secondary on 10 Ohm Load and 29uf on Resonating Coil

Please post your comments and Power Calculations. Keep in mind the Shunt Resistor is 10 Ohms and not 1 Ohm.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 16, 2011, 12:24:24 AM
Hi Luc,

When the secondary coils are unloaded the input power is approximately: Pin=V*I*cos82Â°   (I estimated from the scope shots the input voltage leads current by about 82Â°. How I got this 82Â°: the time difference between input voltage and current is about 3.8msec, this gives roughly 82Â°.)

So Pin=5.96*0.0508*cos82Â°=0.0421W

Loaded case, no capacitor, I noticed no change in the 82Â° phase shift :

input power  Pin=5.57*0.0548*cos82Â°=0.04248W

output power  Pout=0.5772/10=0.03329W

Loaded case with capacitor, I noticed the phase shift decreased to about 34.5Â° from 82Â°, this means it is decisive to watch on the scope only the voltage drop decrease across the shunt resistor, you have to consider any change in the phase shift too.

input power Pin=5.2*0.0457*cos34.5Â°=0.1958W

output power Pout=0.6742/10=0.04542W

circulating power in the LC (140mH 39uF) tank circuit, assuming resonance  PLC=0.4842/10=0.02342W

Efficiency in the loaded case, no cap:
Pout/Pin=(0.03329W/0.04248W)*100=78.3%

Efficiency in the loaded case with cap:
(Pout + PLC)/Pin=(0.04542W + 0.02342W)/0.1958W=0.3515*100=35.15%

So it seems this setup now behaves as a conventional transformer when there is no 39uF tuning cap connected. When the 39uF is connected to the till then 140mH idle coil, efficiency suffers, probably due to the change in the phase shift in the input voltage-current.

(I recall the 140mH coils have got a DC resistance between 120 to 180 Ohms?)

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 16, 2011, 06:53:17 PM
Hi Gyula,

thank you for doing the power calculations.

As you can see I have no idea how to do AC Power Calculations yet but there is hope as I now understand that a higher voltage across the Shunt Resistor does not necessarily matter if the Phase (cos angle) stays the same. Do I have that correct?

I decided to look at Phase much closer on the Scope and found it did shift @60Hz.

In the First scope Shot below I expended to Scopes Voltage divisions so we could clearly see where they fall at the Zero point.
For loads I decided to separate the 2 Secondaries and used a 10 Ohm Load on each.
I found that it's only @248Hz that there is Zero Phase Shift when under Load. See Second Shot below. Frequencies above 248Hz the Phase slowly goes up and below 248Hz Phase slowly drops.

The First Shot below is the no load centered Reference. We have exactly 4 squares between each side of the rising and dropping voltage phase. Each square should be 22.5 degrees, so then one of the 5 divisions in each square should be 4.5 degrees. The Current is 3 divisions behind the Voltage (3 x 4.5 = 13.5) so 90 - 13.5 = 76.5 degrees.

So would you agree this is an accurate way to get Phase degree?

Third Shot is Complete view.

Can you re-calculate the power in vs power out with this more accurate data.

I still don't understand how you came up with the numbers above so I better let you do it. Hopefully in time I will be able to learn the equations ;D

Thanks for your time Guyla... I'll get there one step at the time thanks to people like you who are willing to help.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 16, 2011, 07:45:27 PM
The Current is 3 divisions behind the Voltage (3 x 4.5 = 13.5) so 90 - 13.5 = 76.5 degrees.
Luc

ACTUALLY LUC THE CURRENT LAGS THE VOLTAGE BY 17 DIVISIONS AND 17 x 4.5 = 76.5 DEGREES
I know it's anal but... ;)

SO YOUR POWER IN = Vprimary x Iprimary x COS 76.5 (COS 76.5 = 0.233)
SO YOUR POWER IN = Vprimary x Iprimary x 0.233

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 16, 2011, 08:05:03 PM
Hi Luc,

Quote
....  I now understand that a higher voltage across the Shunt Resistor does not necessarily matter if the Phase (cos angle) stays the same. Do I have that correct?

I did not mean it that way, though what you say I think it also matters because an increasing shunt voltage means an increasing input current hence an increasing input power draw while the phase angle may remain the same.  I meant when your LC tank circuit was activated by connecting the 39uF cap, the input current got reduced (voltage drop across the shunt decreased) but the phase angle between the input voltage and input power has changed from the 82Â° to 34.5Â°, this caused a significant increase in input power.

Quote
....
The First Shot below is the no load centered Reference. We have exactly 4 squares between our rising and dropping voltage phase. Each square should be 22.5 degrees, so then one of the 5 divisions in each square should be 4.5 degrees. The Current is 3 divisions behind the Voltage (3 x 4.5 = 13.5) so 90 - 13.5 = 76.5 degrees.
So would you agree this is an accurate way to get Phase degree?

Yes it is more accurate now than I managed to estimate it but then the 76.5Â° is even further away from the 90Â° goal. Maybe you wanted to write 8 squares above instead of 4?

Quote
I still don't understand how you came up with the numbers above so I better let you do it. Hopefully in time I will be able to learn the equations ;D

I used conventional AC power calculations whereby the phase angle between the AC current and voltage is considered and you multiply the rms values of current and voltage with the cosine value of the phase angle.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/powerac.html

I will revise the calculations though I just noticed Thane already gave a hint.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 16, 2011, 09:07:21 PM
Hi Luc,

I did not mean it that way, though what you say I think it also matters because an increasing shunt voltage means an increasing input current hence an increasing input power draw while the phase angle may remain the same.  I meant when your LC tank circuit was activated by connecting the 39uF cap, the input current got reduced (voltage drop across the shunt decreased) but the phase angle between the input voltage and input power has changed from the 82Â° to 34.5Â°, this caused a significant increase in input power.

Okay I think I get it.

Yes it is more accurate now than I managed to estimate it but then the 76.5Â° is even further away from the 90Â° goal. Maybe you wanted to write 8 squares above instead of 4?

I edited it to say:
We have exactly 4 squares between each 90 degrees side of the rising and dropping voltage phase.

I will revise the calculations though I just noticed Thane already gave a hint.
Gyula

Please do the complete calculations. I will go over it on the phone with Thane to get a verbal explanation of how to do the calculations.

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 16, 2011, 09:53:51 PM
Hi Luc,

Focusing on your third scope shot now, I assume there is no 39uF connected and CH3 and 4 show the output voltage across the 10 Ohm resistors, respectively.
CH1 is the voltage across the input current shunt and CH2 is the input voltage as before, right?
Now the phase angle between input current and voltage seems to be near 90Â° for me?  One full wave is 4 msec rounded down (248 Hz is 4.03 msec) and there is 1 msec for the 90Â° section. The 1 msec section is divided to 5 smaller divisions, this means 18Â° for any two neighbouring small divisions and I can see 4.5 small such divisions between current and voltage curves, giving a phase angle of 4.5 x 18Â°=81Â°

The input power now is Pin=7.16V*0.0177A*cos81Â°=0.0198W

Output power on one of the 10 Ohm load is Pout1=(0.208*0.208)/10= 0.00432W
Output power on the other 10 Ohm load is Pout2=(0.171*0.171)/10=0,00292W
Summing the two outputs gives 0.00725W

efficiency is (0.00725W/0.0198W)*100=36.6%

Now if you could expand the third scope shot to see more precisely the phase angle (I used an estimated 81Â°)  and what is more you could attain a phase shift much nearer to 90Â° degree between input current and voltage, then the real input power would be much less hence efficiency should improve.  The exact 90Â° phase shift would mean a fully reactive input power and no real input power (cos90Â°=0)  this is what Thane aims at.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 16, 2011, 10:32:47 PM
Hi Luc,

Focusing on your third scope shot now, I assume there is no 39uF connected and CH3 and 4 show the output voltage across the 10 Ohm resistors, respectively.
CH1 is the voltage across the input current shunt and CH2 is the input voltage as before, right?
Now the phase angle between input current and voltage seems to be near 90Â° for me?  One full wave is 4 msec rounded down (248 Hz is 4.03 msec) and there is 1 msec for the 90Â° section. The 1 msec section is divided to 5 smaller divisions, this means 18Â° for any two neighbouring small divisions and I can see 4.5 small such divisions between current and voltage curves, giving a phase angle of 4.5 x 18Â°=81Â°

The input power now is Pin=7.16V*0.0177A*cos81Â°=0.0198W

Output power on one of the 10 Ohm load is Pout1=(0.208*0.208)/10= 0.00432W
Output power on the other 10 Ohm load is Pout2=(0.171*0.171)/10=0,00292W
Summing the two outputs gives 0.00725W

efficiency is (0.00725W/0.0198W)*100=36.6%

Now if you could expand the third scope shot to see more precisely the phase angle (I used an estimated 81Â°)  and what is more you could attain a phase shift much nearer to 90Â° degree between input current and voltage, then the real input power would be much less hence efficiency should improve.  The exact 90Â° phase shift would mean a fully reactive input power and no real input power (cos90Â°=0)  this is what Thane aims at.

Gyula

HI Gyula,

yes, that is correct!... and no Capacitor used.

Third Scope shot is the same as the Second Scope Shot. Nothing has changed other then the Scopes Voltage and Time Divisions so you can see the complete picture.

So your 81 degrees estimate is not correct.

I have checked all the Transformers I have, even a high end Audio Power Amp Toroid. None of them are 90 degrees out of phase idle (no load). The Toroid is at 40.5 degrees with no load.
So I don't know why we have to be at 90 degrees to get a winner. If we start with 40.5 and we connect a load and it stays at 40.5 then is the Power on the load not coming from Reactive power?

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 16, 2011, 11:40:53 PM
Luc,  sorry for the misunderstanding....

Pin=7.16*0,0177*cos76.5=0.02958W

efficiency (0.00725W/0.02958W)*100=24.5%

You wrote: I found that it's only @248Hz that there is Zero Phase Shift when under Load. See Second Shot below. Frequencies above 248Hz the Phase slowly goes up and below 248Hz Phase slowly drops.

My question is where do you mean exactly the zero phase shift happens at the 248Hz frequency?

According to Thane, a 90Â° phase shift is the goal between the input current and voltage. This is a situation when input power is fully reactive and in case this happens at the 60 Hz mains frequency than utility WattHour meters in most homes would not measure the load's consumption.  Of course reactive current would still load the mains and this reactive current should still be supplied by the utility providers.
Considering your question on the 40.5Â° phase angle: it does not represent a fully reactive power like it would when the phase angle were at or very near to 90Â° angle.

Phase angle, Phi = arctan(XL/R)   so if you have R=120 Ohm and a coil's inductive reactance XL=150 Ohm at a given AC frequency, than the phase angle between their current and voltage is arctan(150/120)=51.34Â°  arctan function is available in Windows built-in scientific calculator and click on Inv icon inside it when wish to take arctan. (the 120 Ohm is the coil's DC resistance)  So in this example we have both a reactive and a real (heat) dissipation for this coil. If you had a coil which would have say XL=800 Ohm at an AC frequency and it would have only 1 Ohm DC copper resistance, its phase angle would be arctan(800/1)=89.92Â° so pretty close to 90Â° an almost ideal coil.

This means that to get a phase angle very near to 90Â° the L/R for a coil has to be a high value, meaning a low resistive part. By manipulating the frequency to find this situation may help but I guess it brings in capacitive part of the coil windings (like for a MOT secondary) and an unpredictable nonlinear core behaviour at the higher than manufactured frequencies, so all in all here is where you have to ask Thane on any further such questions. I really mean this, without any bias.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 17, 2011, 02:16:22 AM
You wrote: I found that it's only @248Hz that there is Zero Phase Shift when under Load. See Second Shot below. Frequencies above 248Hz the Phase slowly goes up and below 248Hz Phase slowly drops.

My question is where do you mean exactly the zero phase shift happens at the 248Hz frequency?

Humm :-\... lets try it this way. If I connect the Primary of the Transformer I made to the output of my Signal Generator to find the Frequencies that when I connect the load to the Secondary it does not consume any extra current.
This happens at 248Hz. At lower Frequencies it slowly starts to consume current and at higher Frequencies it slowly starts to reduce current consumption.

Now when doing the same as above but using the Scope to only look at Phase ( scope adjusted like fist and second shot) I can see at 248Hz there is Zero Phase change when adding the load or removing it.
Now, if I start to lower the Frequency it slowly starts to shift in a negative way (reducing phase degree)and if I increase the Frequencies it slowly start to shifts in a positive way (adding phase degree)
This is what I mean with a Zero Phase Shift Frequency.

I hope you understand as I don't know how to explain it any better. I would have to do a video ;D if you don't get it.

According to Thane, a 90Â° phase shift is the goal between the input current and voltage. This is a situation when input power is fully reactive and in case this happens at the 60 Hz mains frequency than utility WattHour meters in most homes would not measure the load's consumption.  Of course reactive current would still load the mains and this reactive current should still be supplied by the utility providers.

I agree to the above but I don't think it's possible for a transformer Primary to not consume any current, so I don't think you can start at 90 degrees Phase Shift. That is what I've been trying to say. However, from my tests I do see that it's possible to build a Transformer in a way that when the Secondary is on load it will not shift the Primary Phase to a lower degree. This I have proven with my tests with special core. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I am concerned there are no low Impedance Transformers that you can take off the shelf and have these results.

Considering your question on the 40.5Â° phase angle: it does not represent a fully reactive power like it would when the phase angle were at or very near to 90Â° angle.

I agree but like I said above, I don't think a full 90 degree shift could be achieved. I hope I'm wrong but I have not seen it yet.

Phase angle, Phi = arctan(XL/R)   so if you have R=120 Ohm and a coil's inductive reactance XL=150 Ohm at a given AC frequency, than the phase angle between their current and voltage is arctan(150/120)=51.34Â°  arctan function is available in Windows built-in scientific calculator and click on Inv icon inside it when wish to take arctan. (the 120 Ohm is the coil's DC resistance)  So in this example we have both a reactive and a real (heat) dissipation for this coil. If you had a coil which would have say XL=800 Ohm at an AC frequency and it would have only 1 Ohm DC copper resistance, its phase angle would be arctan(800/1)=89.92Â° so pretty close to 90Â° an almost ideal coil.

This arctan calculation sounds very interesting. At what Frequency do you think you would get 800 Ohms Reactance?

Could you calculate heat dissipation (losses) in my Primary @248Hz Sine Wave with DC R of 17.2 Ohms and L of 220mH

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 17, 2011, 11:52:16 AM
Hi Luc,

Ok, now it is clear how you meant the zero phase shift occuring i.e. not occuring...  :)

Quote
I agree to the above but I don't think it's possible for a transformer Primary to not consume any current, so I don't think you can start at 90 degrees Phase Shift. That is what I've been trying to say. However, from my tests I do see that it's possible to build a Transformer in a way that when the Secondary is on load it will not shift the Primary Phase to a lower degree. This I have proven with my tests with special core. Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I am concerned there are no low Impedance Transformers that you can take off the shelf and have these results.

Yes, a transformer will always consume at least reactive current and the less copper and core loss a transformer has got, the closer the phase shift would be to the ideal 90Â° phase shift. When you start loading it, surely you can find a frequency where this phase shift would not change due to the load but the same reactive current is still consumed by the primary coil. I do not know if such a low impedance transformer exists off the shelf, the frequency you test it is always a question and what purpose a specific transformer was manufactured for.

Quote
This arctan calculation sounds very interesting. At what Frequency do you think you would get 800 Ohms Reactance?

Could you calculate heat dissipation (losses) in my Primary @248Hz Sine Wave with DC R of 17.2 Ohms and L of 220mH

Well, the formula to calculate the frequency where a coil can have 800 Ohm inductive reactance is f=XL/(2pi*L)  i.e. f=800/(6.28*L)

For your 220mH coil the frequency where you would have 800 Ohm inductive reactance would be f=800/(6.28*0.22)=579 Hz  However, the 17.2 Ohm resistance would "ruin" the phase angle a little:  arctan800/17.2=88.76Â°phase angle would be involved so an even higher frequency should be found... At 9 kHz the 220mH coil has an XL of 124344 Ohm reactance this gives a phase angle of 89.99Â° with its own 17.2 Ohm wire resistance...

From your third scope shot the current via your 220mH primary is 0.0177A this is what is established by the series 10 Ohm shunt and the inductive impedance of this coil at 248 Hz. This current dissipates PL=0.0177*0.0177*17.2=0.00538W power i.e 5.38 mW loss in the coil.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 17, 2011, 01:46:52 PM
Yes, a transformer will always consume at least reactive current and the less copper and core loss a transformer has got, the closer the phase shift would be to the ideal 90Â° phase shift. When you start loading it, surely you can find a frequency where this phase shift would not change due to the load but the same reactive current is still consumed by the primary coil. I do not know if such a low impedance transformer exists off the shelf, the frequency you test it is always a question and what purpose a specific transformer was manufactured for.

@Gyula

The Primary coil resistance is 1.8 Ohms in my MOT transformer experiment...
This is exactly why I am using a MOT transformer to do this kind of experiments.

My MOT High Freq. (Delayed Lenz) Experiment:

And Yes Reactive Power will be consumed, but in my opinion this is a nonissue, because we always can power factor correct this.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 17, 2011, 03:53:10 PM
...
The Primary coil resistance is 1.8 Ohms in my MOT transformer experiment...
This is exactly why I am using a MOT transformer to do this kind of experiments.

Yes, high power mains transformers in the half to the 1-2 kWatt range have primary coils made from thick wire, so copper resistance is not the main problem.  However their core laminations can have upper frequency limits  that may prevent them to get meaningful power output because losses above some hundred Hertz or in the very low kHz range become prohibitive. Perhaps the so called Hypersil cores do not suffer from  as much frequency limitation as the laminations with normal 4% Si content.

And I assume your MOT's primary may serve as a "coupling coil" to the very high impedance secondary coil.

Quote
And Yes Reactive Power will be consumed, but in my opinion this is a nonissue, because we always can power factor correct this.

Yes this is what would be the most welcome tests and looking forward to seeing such tests where really useful output power can be received at the output and the big question is: at what input power price?

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 17, 2011, 05:22:36 PM
Hello Everyone,

The coils employed in this prototype are 4.5 ohms, 16 gauge bi-filar wound series connected with M1 core laminations and create acceleration at 1800 RPM with a 10 ohm light bulb. Each coil can produce 50 Watts or more and the magnets are 90 lb pulling weight. They create so much torque and acceleration that two set screws on each rotor were not enough to keep them secured to the drive shaft and they had to be returned to the machinist to have key-ways installed. Even now the air gap on each side is about 1/2 an inch. When properly balanced with three rotors and offset cores the cogging torque is virtually zero and the core "cost" was very low - which is reduced as speed increases anyway and is NOT an issue.

I will post the test data when I find it to end this discussion (which is a waste of time BTW) because all generators have coils and cores with some hysterisis losses inherent in them but not all generators accelerate when a load is applied which is the REAL issue.

Cheers
Thane

WOW Thane,

i'm just catching up on bits of this thread.

4.5 ohms @ 16-gauge is 9.5 pounds of wire, crikey !!!

No wonder you're getting 50 watts :)

I've got hold of a MOT so i may join you chaps on that journey soon.

In the meantime i've been watching ALL of Thane's youtube videos (all 62 of them !) :

It's a very sound and logical journey, it's very interesting seeing the concept go through it's stages of development and i recommend that everyone views the lot of them.

If you use FireFox and want to download them all in one go then i'd recommend this plugin :

Best to all,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 17, 2011, 06:47:16 PM
WOW Thane,

In the meantime i've been watching ALL of Thane's youtube videos (all 62 of them !) :

It's a very sound and logical journey, it's very interesting seeing the concept go through it's stages of development and i recommend that everyone views the lot of them.

Best to all,
DC.

HEY DC,

THANKS FOR NOTICING! 8) YOU ARE ONE OF THE FIRST TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS.

WHEN PDI SET UP SHOP AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY BACK IN 2008, DR. HABASH GAVE US AN OTTAWA U (OU) WEBPAGE TO CHRONICLE THE EVOLUTION OF THE ReGenX TECHNOLOGY IN AN OPEN PUBLIC FORUM WITH AN OPEN DOOR POLICY FOR ANYONE TO COME AND SEE THE TECHNOLOGY IDEALLY BEFORE THEY CRITICIZED IT.  :-\

ALMOST EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT HIT THE FAN WHEN THE TORONTO STAR PUBLISHED THEIR "IS IT PERPETUAL MOTION?" READER MANIPULATION STORY.  >:(

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IS THAT DR. ZAHN REFUSED TO SPEAK TO US AFTER THAT, AND DR. HABASH REMOVED THE CONTENT FROM THE WEB PAGE AND LIED WHEN HE TOLD ME SOMEONE HACKED INTO THE UNIVERSITY SERVER AND TOOK IT DOWN... THEN THE LIES CONTINUED RIGHT UP UNTIL PDI WAS EVENTUALLY EXPELLED FROM OTTAWA U IN 2010 BECAUSE THE DIRECTOR OF ENGINEERING DIDN'T LIKE "PERPETUAL MOTION RESEARCH" (EVEN THOUGH IT ISN'T AND EVEN THOUGH I BEGGED HIM MANY TIMES TO COME AND SEE THE TECHNOLOGY).  :P

THANKS TO THIS FORUM THE TRUTH AND THE TECHNOLOGY'S JOURNEY CAN BE SHARED AND KEPT ALIVE IN THE EVENT THAT THE ABOVE NEGATIVE EVENTS ARE REPLAYED IN THE FUTURE...  :'(

CHEERS  ;)
T

CC

tyler@cleanbreak.ca,
"Markus Zahn" <zahn@mit.edu>,
rhabash@site.uottawa.ca,
dean@eng.uottawa.ca,
"Emil M.Petriu" <petriu@site.uottawa.ca>
<jackiesyrett@rogers.com>
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 17, 2011, 06:49:18 PM
Hi Luc,

Ok, now it is clear how you meant the zero phase shift occuring i.e. not occuring...  :)

Yes, a transformer will always consume at least reactive current and the less copper and core loss a transformer has got, the closer the phase shift would be to the ideal 90Â° phase shift. When you start loading it, surely you can find a frequency where this phase shift would not change due to the load but the same reactive current is still consumed by the primary coil. I do not know if such a low impedance transformer exists off the shelf, the frequency you test it is always a question and what purpose a specific transformer was manufactured for.

Well, the formula to calculate the frequency where a coil can have 800 Ohm inductive reactance is f=XL/(2pi*L)  i.e. f=800/(6.28*L)

For your 220mH coil the frequency where you would have 800 Ohm inductive reactance would be f=800/(6.28*0.22)=579 Hz  However, the 17.2 Ohm resistance would "ruin" the phase angle a little:  arctan800/17.2=88.76Â°phase angle would be involved so an even higher frequency should be found... At 9 kHz the 220mH coil has an XL of 124344 Ohm reactance this gives a phase angle of 89.99Â° with its own 17.2 Ohm wire resistance...

From your third scope shot the current via your 220mH primary is 0.0177A this is what is established by the series 10 Ohm shunt and the inductive impedance of this coil at 248 Hz. This current dissipates PL=0.0177*0.0177*17.2=0.00538W power i.e 5.38 mW loss in the coil.

Gyula

Thanks Gyula for all the calculations and suggestions.

Always lots to learn :P

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 17, 2011, 06:58:39 PM
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CC
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Subject: HOW TO AVOID OIL WAR # 3 with IRAN
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Date: Sat, October 15, 2011 9:10 am
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<aka.teslaalset@gmail.com>, mbennett@ultrasystems.com, "Mike Collier"<lithiumstorage@gmail.com>, "Barsilos" <barsilos@aol.com>, "Babcat
Babcat Babcat the Babcat" <babcat5@hotmail.com>, "Seanna Watson"<seanna.watson@gmail.com>, "James Kirtley" <kirtley@MIT.EDU>, "Walter
Lewin" <lewin@space.mit.edu>, "Wolfgang Ketterle" <ketterle@MIT.EDU>,"Markus Zahn" <zahn@mit.edu>, ehsani@ece.tamu.edu,
alireza.bakhshai@queensu.ca, Brian.Fleck@ualberta.ca,pfrise@uwindsor.ca, "David Mann" <david.m5561@gmail.com>, "J. Shin"<jshin@alcor.concordia.ca>, "M. Ehsani" <ehsani@mail.ece.tamu.edu>,"Theodore Gray" <theodore@wolfram.com>, "Eric Poisson"<epoisson@uoguelph.ca>, "James Eberhardt" <James.Eberhardt@ee.doe.gov>,
"Anna Jaffe" <ajaffe@mit.edu>, "Mitchell Olszewski"<olszewskim@ornl.gov>, jackiesyrett@rogers.com, "Kyle White"<Kyle.White@calgary.ca>, rhabash@site.uottawa.ca, dean@eng.uottawa.ca,"Emil M.Petriu" <petriu@site.uottawa.ca>, ted.sargent@utoronto.ca,"Catherine Shearer-Kudel" <cshearerkudel@ocepp.ca>, "Josie Rubino"<jrubino@ocepp.ca>, "Steven Novella" <stevennovella@comcast.net>,GiovanniFusina" <Giovanni.Fusina@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>, "EloisYaxley"
<elois@newdata.ca>, steven.novella@yale.edu, "Sterling Allan" <sterlingda@pureenergysystems.com>,"Patrick Timpone" <patrick@1radionetwork.com>, "JoanneSchnurr"
<jschnurr@ctv.ca>, pbrent@ctv.ca, tyler@cleanbreak.ca, robmac@yorku.ca, jackel@yorku.ca, lehn@ecf.utoronto.ca, chair@physics.utoronto.ca, editor@thevarsity.ca, scott.anderson@utoronto.ca, stacey.gibson@utoronto.ca, city@thestar.ca, tepeditors@thestar.ca, wheels@thestar.ca, haigscience@gmail.com, haigscience@hotmail.com, "Patrick Timpone" <patrick@1radionetwork.com>, jayweidner@sacredmysteries.com, sharronrose@sacredmysteries.com,

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 17, 2011, 07:19:07 PM

FUNNY THING, MAINSTREAM SCIENCE PEOPLE DON'T USE TERMS LIKE OVERUNITY OR VIOLATING THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY THEY USE TERMS LIKE...

NET GAIN  ;)

DO YOU THINK WE CAN CONVINCE STEFAN TO CHANGE THE OU FORUM'S NAME TO THE NET GAIN FORUM?

CHEERS
T

ps - is it just me or does that wall plug look like this  :D ?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 17, 2011, 08:24:23 PM
Dear Thane,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg302139#msg302139

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 17, 2011, 08:59:59 PM
Hi everyone,

since now I learned how to correctly calculate Pin and Pout thanks to Thane and Gyula I decided to test the BiTT.

From all the paying around with the BiTT I can tell you it's a very different Transformer then the one I built.

One of the main difference is there is no ideal Frequency it works better at. The 50Hz to 200Hz range is all the same and Frequencies above that the output starts to go down in a linear way.
The other difference is Load, the more the load the more the Phase shift. Mine, the more the load (short is best) the more I can drop the Frequency and still have a Frequency that I get Zero Phase shift loaded or not.

Here are my Power Calculations from the Scope data. Shunt is 10 Ohms and S1 & S2 loads are 150 Ohms each. Test is done at 60Hz.

First scope shot is no load

Second scope shot is with loads and Interestingly enough it has the same 76.5 Phase angle then my Transformer.

Third scope shot we can see all the data and I calculate 0.0246713136 Watts in

Power out is 0.001944 Watts on S2 and 0.0015876 Watts on S1 for a Total of 0.0035316 Watts out

Looks to be a little under the 14.5% efficiency range

If Thane or anyone else see a problem in my calculations please point them out

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 17, 2011, 10:47:30 PM
Okay my friends... here it is :D

The GTL 90 Transformer.

Operating a load with perfect 90 Degrees Phase Shift at 60Hz :o from my Signal Generator Output ... Reactive Power man 8)

Shunt Resistor is 10 Ohms and Load is also 10 Ohms

First Scope Shot is no Load close up Phase check
Second Shot is with 10 Ohm Load close up Phase check
Third Scope Shot is with 10 Ohm Load full view and Data

Let me know what you think

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 17, 2011, 11:02:02 PM
Here are my Power Calculations from the Scope data. Shunt is 10 Ohms and S1 & S2 loads are 150 Ohms each. Test is done at 60Hz.

@Luc, have you tried two different loads at the same time on the BIT? So lets say S1: 30 Ohms and for instance S2: 150 Ohms? My guess is that this will amplify the counter Lenz effects between the two secondaries, playing inside the special BIT transformer... Of course all this without reflecting to the primary coil.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 17, 2011, 11:05:10 PM
@Luc, have you tried two different loads at the same time on the BIT? So lets say S1: 30 Ohms and for instance S2: 150 Ohms? My guess is that this will amplify the counter Lenz effects between the two secondaries, playing inside the special BIT transformer... Of course all this without reflecting to the primary coil.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Dear Overunityguide

please look at my new post above yours.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 17, 2011, 11:11:51 PM
Hi Luc,

Can you show a photo of these setups BIT/GTL90? Just curious...
Your calculations are correct for the BIT.

On your GTL90 I wonder if a power factor correction could be done like Overunityguide mentioned this afternoon?
To do it, you need to know the input coil self inductance and choose a capacitor with the same reactance at 60 Hz the input coil has at 60 Hz. Then connect this cap in parallel with the input coil, this way the input impedance will be real with no phase shift between input current and voltage instead of the present 90Â° shift.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 17, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
Edited

Still a better improvement so I re-posted the Scope Shots.

Now 182mv of Reactive Power on the 10 Ohm load

0.00324 Watts of Free Power ;D

Now it's time to plug it in the wall :o

Wish me luck

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 17, 2011, 11:38:45 PM
Hi Luc,

Can you show a photo of these setups BIT/GTL90? Just curious...
Your calculations are correct for the BIT.

On your GTL90 I wonder if a power factor correction could be done like Overunityguide mentioned this afternoon?
To do it, you need to know the input coil self inductance and choose a capacitor with the same reactance at 60 Hz the input coil has at 60 Hz. Then connect this cap in parallel with the input coil, this way the input impedance will be real with no phase shift between input current and voltage instead of the present 90Â° shift.

Gyula

Humm :-\... I thought that 90 degrees Phase shift was the best scenario. I achieve it and now you say something else is better.

Inductance of my Primary is 220mH

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 17, 2011, 11:56:33 PM
Humm :-\... I thought that 90 degrees Phase shift was the best scenario. I achieve it and now you say something else is better.

Inductance of my Primary is 220mH

Luc

Luc,  I do not know if it is better or not... just repeated a suggestion that a reactive input can be power factor corrected.

Primary coil inductive reactance is 82.896 Ohm, this needs a 32 uF parallel cap to get resonance at 60 Hz.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 18, 2011, 12:10:28 AM
Humm :-\... I thought that 90 degrees Phase shift was the best scenario. I achieve it and now you say something else is better.

Luc

HEY LUC,

DON'T LISTEN TO THESE GUYS THEY ARE ALL ON CRACK!  ;)
POWER FACTOR CORRECTION IS GENERALLY DONE ON A BUILDING AS A WHOLE ANYWAY...
SOON THERE WON'T BE A GRID SO THE POINT IS MOOT ANYWAY.

NOW IF YOU STICK YOUR BiTT (WITH ZERO POWER FACTOR) IN BETWEEN AN ELECTRIC CAR'S GENERATOR AND THE BATTERY (PF = 1) AND YOU WILL HAVE REACTIONLESS (LENZ FREE) TRANSFER OF POWER WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ALL ABOUT.  :D

ACTUALLY YOU CAN USE THE BiTT BETWEEN THE BATTERY AND MOTOR AS WELL.

CHEERS
T

PS 1

PS 2
NOW THAT YOU HAVE A PF = 0 PRIMARY POWER CONSUMPTION = Ip(squared) x Rdcprimary

PS 3
NICE SCOPE WORK BTW (EVEN IF I DO SAY SO MYSELF :-X)

MY ELECTRONICS PROFESSOR PETER CARILLO IS SMILING DOWN FROM HEAVEN RIGHT NOW SEEING THAT I ACTUALLY LEARNED SOMETHING IN HIS CLASS AFTERALL).
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 18, 2011, 12:27:24 AM

0.00324 Watts of Free Power ;D

Luc

0.00324 WATTS - PRIMARY CURRENT (SQUARED) x PRIMARY DC RESISTANCE.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 18, 2011, 01:37:30 AM
Here are the new Scope Shots with the GTL 90 Transformer connected to 120vac 60Hz Grid Power

Power in Reactive = 0 Watts

Power out = 0.74 Watts

Please note that I changed the Shunt Resistor to 1 Ohm since Input Voltage is much higher then the Singal Generator Output was.

First Shot is GTL 90 Transformer with 120vac 60Hz Grid Power no Load (phase check)
Second Shot is GTL 90 Transformer with 120vac 60Hz Grid Power & 10 Ohms Load (phase check)
Third Shot is GTL 90 Transformer with 120vac 60Hz Grid Power & 10 Ohms Load (complete view & data)

One interesting thing about this Transformer is when I connect the 10 Ohm load to the Secondary there is Zero effect to the Primary Phase degree. You can see that between the first scope shot (no load) and the second scope shot (10 ohm load).

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 18, 2011, 04:12:36 AM
At anyone interested,

I made a video of my last day of sailing for this Season.

Location: Ottawa River, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Sailboat: 1978 Pearson 23 feet long, with 8 foot beam (wide), 2.5 foot draft (deep) with swing fin up (shoal draft keel)

I bought this Sailboat for \$350 in the Spring of 2010. The stern Starboard corner was ripped open in a storm so it was written off. I restore the boat in the Spring and Summer of 2010 to close to new condition.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 18, 2011, 05:26:15 AM
I'm posting these scope shots just for the fun of it.

I can adjust the Voltage to Lead the Current by 97 degrees which give a Negative cos of -0.1219

However the output starts to drop

I calculate -0.7878 Watts returned to Grid and 0.2133 Watts on the 10 Ohm Load

Let me know if I calculated it right

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 18, 2011, 09:27:55 AM
Especially for GotoLuc:

(good work on the GTL 90 Transformer BTW)

Amsterdam Canal Boat Trip Part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31i8kvkJoWY
Amsterdam Canal Boat Trip Part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CePs4Dde7ck&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

And Luc I want you to know that I am also feeling myself "MAD LIKE TESLA" !
BTW what is in the book?

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 18, 2011, 10:35:02 AM
Especially for GotoLuc:

(good work on the GTL 90 Transformer BTW)

Amsterdam Canal Boat Trip Part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31i8kvkJoWY
Amsterdam Canal Boat Trip Part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CePs4Dde7ck&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

And Luc I want you to know that I am also feeling myself "MAD LIKE TESLA" !
BTW what is in the book?

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 18, 2011, 01:01:47 PM
However the output starts to drop
Luc

HEY LUC,

THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT... SINCE THE SECONDARY INDUCED BEMF FLUX IS INCREASING THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE INSTEAD OF DECREASING IT AS PER A CONVENTIONAL TRANSFORMER.

YOU CAN SEE THAT YOUR PRIMARY CURRENT HAS DECREASED ALSO.
PRIMARY CURRENT MAGNITUDE DETERMINES SECONDARY VOLTAGE SO IF IT DROPS LOAD POWER DROPS AS WELL.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 18, 2011, 01:08:36 PM
Here are the new Scope Shots with the GTL 90 Transformer connected to 120vac 60Hz Grid Power

Power in Reactive = 0 Watts

Power out = 0.74 Watts

Please note that I changed the Shunt Resistor to 1 Ohm since Input Voltage is much higher then the Singal Generator Output was.

First Shot is GTL 90 Transformer with 120vac 60Hz Grid Power no Load (phase check)
Second Shot is GTL 90 Transformer with 120vac 60Hz Grid Power & 10 Ohms Load (phase check)
Third Shot is GTL 90 Transformer with 120vac 60Hz Grid Power & 10 Ohms Load (complete view & data)

One interesting thing about this Transformer is when I connect the 10 Ohm load to the Secondary there is Zero effect to the Primary Phase degree. You can see that between the first scope shot (no load) and the second scope shot (10 ohm load).

Luc

Hi Folks,

From Luc's scope shots it is seen the voltage drop across his 1 Ohm shunt resistor is 110mV.  It is ok that this 110 milliAmper is a reactive current because the input voltage leads 90Â° wrt the input current but it SHOULD be supplied from the mains to maintain the induction in his GTL90 transformer.

So what is the advantage with this or similar setups I wonder.

Thanks, Gyula

PS Luc, would like to invite you (and anyone else) for this sightseeing here
(music by Johann Strauss: Blue Danube Waltz)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 18, 2011, 01:29:24 PM

So what is the advantage with this or similar setups I wonder.
Thanks, Gyula

IF LUC'S DATA IS CORRECT IT MEANS THAT HE CAN CHARGE HIS CELLPHONE OR EV USING ONLY REACTIVE (BORROWED) POWER, REACTIVE CURRENT USED ON ONE HALF OF THE SINEWAVE AND RETURNED ON THE OTHER... NET CONSUMPTION = 0.0 WATTS (EXCEPT FOR SOME SMALL DC HEAT DISSIPATION see http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/tracir.html#c4 in this case 50 Watts instead of 2600 Watts).

REACTIVE CURRENT PROVES THAT GOD EXISTS BECAUSE WHO ELSE BUT A BEING OF INFINITE LOVE WOULD CREATE SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE CAN USE (ANY AMOUNT OF) AND NEVER PUT A DENT IN THE ORIGINAL SUPPLY? WOW NOW THAT'S A MIRACLE BABY!  :D

AND EVERYONE ON THE GRID CAN DO THE SAME SHARING AND WE CAN ALL GET DOWN TO THE BUSINESS OF ENDING THESE BOAT RIDES.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 18, 2011, 03:30:42 PM
Especially for GotoLuc:

(good work on the GTL 90 Transformer BTW)

Amsterdam Canal Boat Trip Part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31i8kvkJoWY
Amsterdam Canal Boat Trip Part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CePs4Dde7ck&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

And Luc I want you to know that I am also feeling myself "MAD LIKE TESLA" !
BTW what is in the book?

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Thanks Overunityguide for the videos. Did you shoot them yourself?

So I guess you live in Amsterdam?... I have been there to visit for a day when my sister was living in Belgium. Very nice and diversified city. So much to see. We did not get the chance to do a canal boat tour. I like all the floating homes. Great stuff

Thanks for sharing

Luc

@Wings, thanks for the link on the book.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 18, 2011, 03:49:18 PM
Hi Folks,

From Luc's scope shots it is seen the voltage drop across his 1 Ohm shunt resistor is 110mV.  It is ok that this 110 milliAmper is a reactive current because the input voltage leads 90Â° wrt the input current but it SHOULD be supplied from the mains to maintain the induction in his GTL90 transformer.

So what is the advantage with this or similar setups I wonder.

Thanks, Gyula

PS Luc, would like to invite you (and anyone else) for this sightseeing here
(music by Johann Strauss: Blue Danube Waltz)

Hi Gyula

I don't fully understand the advantage of a Transformer having these characteristics!... this is all new to me. I just learned yesterday how to correctly calculate AC Power ;D

So, that will be my next investigation project. How to use this in a practical application.
I will post what I find as usual.

So you live in Budapest , Hungary?... looks very beautiful at night from the water. I wonder if they could use some Reactive Transformers to Power all those lights. ;D
A few years back I went to Tychy, Poland to do some volunteer construction work of a new youth center. I wish I would of known you then and how close I was to see Budapest.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

PS did you shoot the video yourself?... if you did! great job ;)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 18, 2011, 06:33:37 PM
Hi Luc,

My "problem"  with such transformers is that you have to give input power continuously and although it sounds good the transformer gives it back (albeit with some loss) in the other half sine wave as Thane wrote but the bottom line is that input power should be created first and if millions of people would start using many kilo or Megawatts of reactive power from the mains, the utility providers surely would find out how to handle the situation and continue charging for electricity accordingly. It is hard to believe they would cooperate with the consumers...
Nevertheless, it is always good to learn from hands on tests.

Gyula

PS  No I did not shoot the video.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 18, 2011, 09:05:27 PM
Hi Luc,

My "problem"  with such transformers is that you have to give input power continuously and although it sounds good the transformer gives it back (albeit with some loss) in the other half sine wave as Thane wrote but the bottom line is that input power should be created first and if millions of people would start using many kilo or Megawatts of reactive power from the mains, the utility providers surely would find out how to handle the situation and continue charging for electricity accordingly. It is hard to believe they would cooperate with the consumers...
Nevertheless, it is always good to learn from hands on tests.

Gyula

PS  No I did not shoot the video.

this can be a solution?

Use of electrical power multiplication for power smoothing in power distribution James F. Corum

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/8622d1311265352-resonance-properties-rotating-ring-circuits-ring-circuits.pdf

Tesla everywhere

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 19, 2011, 12:45:02 PM
DEAR OUG,

I HAVE ANOTHER JOB FOR YOU FOR WHEN YOU GET BACK FROM YOUR BUSINESS TRIP THIS SATURDAY.  :-*

MAKE A BI-FILAR SERIES CONNECTED SECONDARY COIL FOR YOUR ORIGINAL LENZ DELAY TRANSFORMER SO YOU CAN SHOW HOW THE BI-FILAR WOUND COIL DIFFERS FROM THE HIGH IMPEDANCE SINGLE WIRE WOUND COIL.

CHEERS
T

Dear Thane,

This is exactly what I have done last week, and I have played several days with it by now. My bifilar series connected coil has two windings both of about 3 Ohms each. And I have used this coil as a secondary transformer coil just like in my first transformer video about the Delayed Lenz Effect inside a transformer.

For now my conclusions are: That when I run the setup on 950 Hz that for the bifilar series connected secondary transformer coil I am getting the same effect with my LED light bulb load, just as in my high impedance secondary coil transformer experiment. 0.2 Watts input power drop going to the primary coil.
But for now, because my bifilar series connected secondary coil has got two windings of low DC resistance, I had decided to load them with a 5 Watts 12V incandescent car light bulb. (also on 950Hz) So after doing this I came to the conclusion that my input voltage going to the primary had to be higher, so this is what I did. And after increasing the input voltage going to the primary coil I saw the following effect taking place:

After connecting the load to the bifilar series connected secondary coil, the input power going to my primary coil went up by 4 Watts, and there was going about 3.2 Watts to the 12v car light bulb in this scenario. So 80% efficient by now, was the best I could squeeze out of it.

HEY LUC,

YOU HAVE A RESONANT CIRCUIT THERE...  ;)
I STILL WONDER IF THIS (AND OVERUNITYGUIDE'S) TRANSFORMER DELAYED LENZ IS ACTUALLY A CORE HYSTERISIS DELAYED EFFECT OR A BIT OF BOTH?

CHEERS
T

To continue with the above, I now am thinking also that the Lenz Delay has to do something with the "CORE HYSTERISIS DELAYED EFFECT" which you are describing above, rather then that it has to do something with input or output coils of the transformer... So for now I do think that building a proper core which can be saturated above a certain level can be the key to further enhance the Delayed Lenz Effect.

Thane I think that you are aware of the Gabriel Device? Which can be viewed in the following thread:

Gabriel Device, possible COP=8: (Operation: Thane Heins effect based device)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10518.0

Furthermore, I do think that the following Tesla patent can be very helpful when trying to do further experimentation in this Delayed Lenz Effect field:
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-433,702-electrical-transformer

Ok, I think that was all for today,

Wishing you all the Best and With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Kator01 on October 19, 2011, 02:58:57 PM
Hello,

Lenz-Delay ?
Here we go: http://www.intalek.com/Papers/zaev1.pdf (http://www.intalek.com/Papers/zaev1.pdf)

Regards

Katgor01
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 19, 2011, 03:59:41 PM
Just a small update.

Yesterday i tested a bifilar-wound, serially connected coil, the same 0.25mm coil i previously had as straight-wound, the performance increases in terms of a rise in frequency and a drop in current draw are on the order of four times better than a straight-wound coil.

Here's a short clip of the new coil in action. I plan to get a cheap HD camera soon, apologies for fuzziness and mesy desk ;+}

Best to all,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 19, 2011, 04:08:25 PM
To continue with the above, I now am thinking also that the Lenz Delay has to do something with the "CORE HYSTERISIS DELAYED EFFECT" which you are describing above, rather then that it has to do something with input or output coils of the transformer... So for now I do think that building a proper core which can be saturated above a certain level can be the key to further enhance the Delayed Lenz Effect.

Hi Overunityguide,

I also believe the Delayed Lenz effect has to do with the core.
Thanks for sharing your new tests results

Furthermore, I do think that the following Tesla patent can be very helpful when trying to do further experimentation in this Delayed Lenz Effect field:
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-433,702-electrical-transformer

You may also want to look at this Tesla Patent which is 4 years later then the one above.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 19, 2011, 06:00:40 PM
Agreed with Luc on core material.

I am running my device at ~400 Hz.

I have tried ferrite, with poor, if any, acceleration under load or even short-circuit.

Bright, mild steel was OK, the effect was there.

My best results so far are from the loose bolts contained in masonry anchor shields, i'm unsure of their material composition but i cut into one and it looks like steel but could be an alloy.

The seller of the bolts doesn't have a clue what they are made from and seems to think i'm rather odd in asking ;+}

I just tried a bifilar/series coil with two conductors of different size, hoping that the difference in potential between them may enhance the effect, but it degrades it, the effect is still there but suffers by 30% in rotor frequency and 12% in currrent draw.

Best to all,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 19, 2011, 08:08:28 PM
My laminations arrived today.

The performance was not as good as my loose anchor bolts !

http://www.mediafire.com/?zh6s7dwt21wx53h

If you don't have excel installed then get the viewer here :

Best to all,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 20, 2011, 01:25:53 AM
Hi Overunityguide,

I also believe the Delayed Lenz effect has to do with the core.
Thanks for sharing

Luc

YOU ARE ALL ON CRACK...!
IT'S NOT DELAYED LENZ AT ALL IT'S DIVERTED LENZ 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu0MDMDChSg  8)
JUST KIDDING A BIT OF BOTH IS REQUIRED ;)

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 20, 2011, 03:26:52 AM
Deep cut
RE: anchor bolts and support sleeves.
Grade 5 material unless its Xtra high strength application [85 ->100,000. psi material]
There should be an AISI spec or an ASTM spec on the product for reference.

Chet
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on October 20, 2011, 03:49:54 AM
YOU ARE ALL ON CRACK...!
IT'S NOT DELAYED LENZ AT ALL IT'S DIVERTED LENZ 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu0MDMDChSg  8)
JUST KIDDING A BIT OF BOTH IS REQUIRED ;)

CHEERS
T

Hey Cranky   ;]

Was wondering what you think about these 2 pdfs.

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 20, 2011, 05:03:14 AM
Hey Cranky   ;]

Was wondering what you think about these 2 pdfs.

Mags

DEAR MAGS, IT'S THE SAME FOR EVERY IDEA  :-\ CHEERS T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on October 20, 2011, 06:28:29 AM
Hmm, well I was just wondering what you thought, as in whether you agree with what the pdfs say.

Thanks

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 20, 2011, 12:49:14 PM
this can be a solution?

Use of electrical power multiplication for power smoothing in power distribution James F. Corum

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/8622d1311265352-resonance-properties-rotating-ring-circuits-ring-circuits.pdf

Tesla everywhere

Hi Wings,

Thanks for the links.  The Corum brothers have studied Tesla's work thoroughly and I assume their applications / patents were born from practical tests too.  I mean several patent applications because the one from James Corum you refer to (US 20060190513) was preceeded by two on the same subject and the application numbers were US 20060190511 and US 20060190512.

So these applications need studying and testing, together with the Parametric power multiplication application US 2007132489 ( http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20070614&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=US&NR=2007132489A1&KC=A1 )

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 20, 2011, 02:18:43 PM
Hmm, well I was just wondering what you thought, as in whether you agree with what the pdfs say.
Thanks
Mags

DEAR MAGS,

I AGREE THAT ALOT OF WORK HAS GONE INTO THE PDFS BUT I AM SORRY I DON'T HAVE ANY SPECULATIVE OPINION ON WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE... MAGNETISM HAS ITS OWN RULES AND MANY HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN ENCOUNTERED YET BY EXPLORERS. THE ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT IS TO BUILD IT AND GET SOME DATA. UNFORTUNATELY IF IT DOES ACTUALLY WORK THEY "WON'T COME" BUT WILL TRY TO IGNORE IT FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.  :-X

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 20, 2011, 03:07:00 PM
JUST AN FYI FOR ALL YOU PERPETUAL LEARNERS OUT THERE... ;)

PHASE SHIFTING TRANSFORMERS
http://www.esat.kuleuven.be/electa/publications/fulltexts/pub_1502.pdf

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 20, 2011, 05:13:35 PM
JUST AN FYI FOR ALL YOU PERPETUAL LEARNERS OUT THERE... ;)

PHASE SHIFTING TRANSFORMERS
http://www.esat.kuleuven.be/electa/publications/fulltexts/pub_1502.pdf

CHEERS
T
.....
Magtech has developed a controllable inductance. It is controlled by a magnetic flux in a copper and iron coil. A small DC current changes the relative permeability in the iron, and makes the inductance continuously variable.

site:
http://www.magtech.no/

patents
7256678
7061356
7180206
7259544
6965291
Application number: 11/033,483
Application number: 10/700,349
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 20, 2011, 06:41:09 PM
.....
Magtech has developed a controllable inductance. It is controlled by a magnetic flux in a copper and iron coil. A small DC current changes the relative permeability in the iron, and makes the inductance continuously variable.

NICE!

I BET GOTOLUC WILL BE INTERESTED IN THIS:

Dynamics of Orthogonal Coil Conditioning  http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/VTA_Conditioning.pdf

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 20, 2011, 09:03:31 PM
Test results, 500g of 0.25mm, bifilar-wound, series-connected, laminated-core coil.

This coil/core combination overspeeds the rotor when shorted.

Rotor with no coil/core present.

Hz : 450
mA : 443

Rotor with coil/core present, open-circuit.

Hz : 450
mA : 438

Rotor with coil/core persent, short-circuit.

Hz : 455
mA 433

Video here :

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: woopy on October 20, 2011, 11:12:38 PM
Hi All

After my experiment with the transformer (MOT) and other test as per Overunityguide and Luc , i decided to try a replication of the Overunityguide experiment in his video.
Until now i did not get any acceleration under load with all my different experiments. (Muller, Romero etc.. )

And thank's to Deepcut info i decided to test one of my old Bificoil ( not so much DC resistance ) and made a slight modif on a Monopole drum by adding a counter pole magnet between each older one.

So the result is very interesting and is confirming the Thane's experiment another time.

Youp  :o i will have hard sleeping these next days

Thank's to all for contribution, and do not hesitate to try .

Laurent

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Kator01 on October 21, 2011, 12:01:49 AM
Hello wings,

what magtech presents here is very old stuff, goes way back to somewhere between 1898 to 1930  and is called "magnetic amplifier"
They ceased teaching this in germany at the technical universities in 1960. I was lucky to find a book in an east-germany university-library : Transductor-controlling technology, which is a very good and stable method to control hydroxy-cells.

I doubt it will be possible to patent this old technique.

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 12:17:23 AM
Hi All

So the result is very interesting and is confirming the Thane's experiment another time.

Laurent

NICE WORK LAURENT,

I SUGGEST YOU TRY ANOTHER TEST AT 600 RPM AND I BET YOU WILL SEE DECELERATION EVEN WITH A SHORT.

OR CHANGE YOUR SERIES CONNECTED BI-FILAR TO PARALLEL CONNECTED BI-FILAR AND SEE MASSIVE BRAKING EFFECTS.

KIND REGARDS
Thane
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 01:58:48 AM
generator [ËˆdÊ’É›nÉ™ËŒreÉªtÉ™]n
1. (Physics / General Physics) Physics
a. any device for converting mechanical energy into electrical energy by electromagnetic induction,

I HAVE SAID IT BEFORE AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN...THE INPUT TO AN ELECTRIC GENERATOR IS:
THE MECHANICAL POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT WHICH = THE DRIVE SHAFT TORQUE x DRIVE SHAFT SPEED.

INPUT POWER = TORQUE x SPEED

THE INPUT POWER IS THEREFORE THE DRIVE SHAFT POWER PRIOR TO LOADING DIVIDED BY THE OUTPUT (WHICH IS THE ELECTRICAL LOADED POWER OUTPUT).

EFFICIENCY = ELECTRICAL OUTPUT/MECHANICAL INPUT x 100

IN A CONVENTIONAL SYSTEM THE MECHANICAL INPUT ALWAYS HAS TO BE INCREASED TO MAINTAIN THE LOAD (MORE TORQUE ADDED) AND THIS ADDED TORQUE x THE SPEED IS THE INPUT ENERGY VALUE.

IN THE ReGenX SCENARIO THE MECHANICAL OUTPUT IS GREATER AFTER LOADING THAN BEFORE LOADING SO THAT ALONE MAKES THE SYSTEM OVER 100% EFFICIENT (MECHANICAL OUTPUT IS GREATER THAN MECHANICAL INPUT BECAUSE TORQUE AND SPEED ARE BOTH HIGHER AFTER LOADING)

EFFICIENCY = MECHANICAL OUTPUT (GENERATOR LOADED) / MECHANICAL INPUT (GENERATOR UNLOADED) x 100

IF OUTPUT ELECTRICITY IS ALSO PRODUCED THE EFFICIENCY IS THEN:

EFFICIENCY = MECHANICAL OUTPUT (GENERATOR LOADED) + ELECTRICAL OUTPUT / MECHANICAL INPUT (GENERATOR UNLOADED) x 100

SO EVERYONE WHO HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO PRODUCE ACCELERATION WHILE LOADING THEIR GENERATOR HAS SUCCEEDED IN PRODUCING AN OVERUNITY DEVICE!

CONGRATULATIONS! :D I JUST WANT TO PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR EFFORTS BECAUSE FEW PEOPLE WILL.  :P AND FEWER STILL WILL UNDERSTAND.  :'(

KIND REGARDS
Thane

Thane C. Heins
President
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"The Transition of Power"
thaneh@potentialdifference.ca
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Qwert on October 21, 2011, 03:16:40 AM
Hi, all.
The subject of the "magnetic amplifier" raised here by woopy and Kator01, is described in page 97 (110 of 187) of the book "Practical-Transformer-Handbook" by Irving Gottlieb (187 pages in .pdf) and the link to it you can find here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6763.msg302197#msg302197

there is also another publication on the Internet "magnetic amplifiers" by George Trinkaus:
http://www.themeasuringsystemofthegods.com/magnetic%20amplifiers.pdf

as well as "Magnetic Amplifier Control for Simple, Low-Cost, Secondary Regulation" by Bob Mammano:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slup129/slup129.pdf
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: shimondoodkin on October 21, 2011, 03:42:46 AM
seems like the non-mechanical the coils only effect is generally understood,but
is there any beneficial overunity in coil only? (mechanical over unity i understand)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 05:35:31 AM
is there any beneficial overunity in coil only?

DEAR SHIMONDOODKIN,

THAT IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION!  ;)

A GENERATOR COIL EMPLOYS ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION TO CONVERT MAGNETIC FIELD ENERGY TO ELECTRICAL ENERGY. THE MAGNITUDE OF FLUX OFFERED BY THE MAGNETIC FIELD COULD BE CONSIDERED AS THE INPUT TO THE COIL AND THE EMF AS THE OUTPUT. THE ONLY WAY TO INCREASE THE OUTPUT IN A CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR WHILE IT IS RUNNING IS TO INCREASE THE TIME INTERVAL OR RATE OF FLUX CHANGE SPEED UP THE ROTOR OR TO INCREASE THE MAGNETIC FIELD MAGNITUDE IF ELECTROMAGNETS ARE EMPLOYED IN THE ROTOR.

WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THE ReGenX GENERATOR CREATES ITS OWN FLUX RATE OF CHANGE INCREASE BY CAUSING ROTOR ACCELERATION BUT IT ALSO INCREASES ITS OWN MAGNETIC FIELD ENERGY ABOVE THAT SUPPLIED SUPPLIED BY THE MAGNETS ON THE ROTOR.

IF YOU OBSERVE AT 959 IN THIS VIDEO YOU WILL NOTICE COIL #1's EMF INCREASES WHEN COIL #2 IS ENGAGED BECAUSE COIL #2's DISCHARGING FLUX IS ADDING TO THE FLUX AVAILABLE IN COIL #1 AND VICE VERSA. http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhee#p/u/13/W_wleUlcMK0

THIS IS ALSO OBSERVABLE IN THIS VIDEO WHEN THE ReGenX COILS ARE ENGAGED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYi2OyS5cK4

SO THE FLUX MAGNITUDE INSIDE THE CORE IS GREATER ON-LOAD (OUTPUT) THAN NO-LOAD (INPUT).

From Faraday's law of induction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction

Michael Faraday stated that electromotive force (EMF) produced around a closed path is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through any surface bounded by that path. In practice, this means that an electric current will be induced in any closed circuit when the magnetic flux through a surface bounded by the conductor changes. This applies whether the field itself changes in strength or the conductor is moved through it.

In mathematical form, Faraday's law states that:
For the case of a coil of wire, composed of N loops with the same area, the equation becomes

EMF = - N (flux change) / rate of time

where

EMF is the electromotive force
Î¦B is the magnetic flux.

THANKS FOR THE GOOD QUESTION!  8)

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 21, 2011, 08:46:32 AM
Hi Overunityguide,

I also believe the Delayed Lenz effect has to do with the core.
Thanks for sharing your new tests results

You may also want to look at this Tesla Patent which is 4 years later then the one above.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

YOU ARE ALL ON CRACK...!
IT'S NOT DELAYED LENZ AT ALL IT'S DIVERTED LENZ 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu0MDMDChSg  8)
JUST KIDDING A BIT OF BOTH IS REQUIRED ;)

CHEERS
T

Dear Thane, I have to admit that I was to fast by pulling conclusions about that the Delayed Lenz Effect only has to do something with the core material... In fact I think that you are right (again and again, quite annoying!) That it has to be a combination of both... So a properly designed core can help delaying and the Bifilar wound series connected coil can help delaying the counter EMF effect even more. I came to this conclusion yesterday evening when trying only a really thick wire wound coil, which doesn't give me any good delayed effect at all. So based on this experience I had to conclude that the Lenz Delay has to be a combination of both.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 21, 2011, 09:09:25 AM
Test results, 500g of 0.25mm, bifilar-wound, series-connected, laminated-core coil.

This coil/core combination overspeeds the rotor when shorted.

Rotor with no coil/core present.

Hz : 450
mA : 443

Rotor with coil/core present, open-circuit.

Hz : 450
mA : 438

Rotor with coil/core persent, short-circuit.

Hz : 455
mA 433

Video here :

DC.

Hello DeepCut,

Conratulations on your results, do you actually realize what you have accomplished with this experiment?!
(I think you do) But to clarify it a bit more for all other readers of this thread:

What DeepCut has accomplished by now is outstanding. He is showing: 443 mA going to the setup on no load, no coil, no nothing.

And he is showing: 433 mA going to the setup WITH THE BIFILAR COIL in SHORTING mode. And getting extra additional acceleration also!

Until so far I even haven't been able to get this type of results yet. I really hope that your measurements are correct, because if they are and you encounter for all losses, then your setup has the potential to be a self runner! Just like the suggest bike project of Thane himself!

And Furthermore Congrats on Woopy's replication also.

Thanks for sharing your results, and With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: woopy on October 21, 2011, 12:21:02 PM
Hi Thane

Yes you are right, i slowed down the rotor and the threshold  for the pure shortcut of my  bificoil serial connected, is arround 570 rpm.

I mean under this speed the shortcuting produce a braking effect (standard generator behaviour) and the rotor slows down
and above this speed at around 600 rpm the shortcuting produces the acceleration of the rotor.

Between 570 and 600 rpm almost nothing happens. it seems that the rotor is slightly wobling but perhaps it is some balance effect  ??

Totally amazing. Thank's so much for your tenacity on this fantastic work. And especially for sharing it.

So i do suppose that if we can arrange a setup with perhaps an odd and even repartition of coils and magnets (for example 16 magnets on the drum and lets say 7 coils )
in order to reduce the cogging at minima, we could get something  usable...........really interesting. Hmmm!!

Yep a lot of thinking this next days. :P

@ Deepcut

Bravo also for your test. Yes it is really fantastic and somehow disturbing  :o to feel the effect in our's hands.
I can only encourage everybody to try the replication.

Good luck at all

Laurent
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 21, 2011, 12:56:14 PM
Thanks OUG, yes i know what it means :)

Nice one Laurent :)

I am testing again today because, as we all know, results can vary from day-to-day.

Results.

Ten minute device warm-up.

Start, 11:15.

Hz   : 445
mA   : 451

End, 11:25.

Hz   : 460
mA   : 415

Test, No coil/core present.

Hz   : 460
mA   : 415

Test, coil/core present, open-circuit.

Hz   : 434
mA   : 420

Test, coil/core present, short-circuit.

Hz   : 464
mA   : 409

Coil details.

Gauge   : 33 SWG (0.250mm)
Weight   : 500g
Length   : 1,145 metres (approx)
L    : 1.4 Henries without core, 16.5 Henries with core.
R   : 405 OHms
Winding : Bifilar, serial-connected.

Core details.

Type   : Lamination
Depth   : 0.35mm
Length   : 40mm
Width   : 10mm
Number of pieces used : 20

Best to all,

Gary.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 21, 2011, 01:15:47 PM
My replication should be ready within a day or so, for now: a little teaser of my new setup.
24 magnet poles, 20 generator coils, almost no cogging.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 21, 2011, 01:17:26 PM
WOW !!! Keyho, it's a thing of beauty :)

Love the over-arching motor mounts, looks like a UFO ;+}
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 21, 2011, 01:25:53 PM
Thanks, laser cutting is quite expensive but it is worth every penny ;)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 21, 2011, 01:26:42 PM
I've spotted something of concern in my build :(

The weight of the coil asembly, once it is placed on the lower perspex sheet, it depresses it very slightly and causes the RPM of the rotor to change because of the change in stress on the bearing.

I am now rebuilding the device so that this can't happen.

I'll post results.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 01:33:23 PM
Dear Thane, I have to admit that I was to fast by pulling conclusions about that the Delayed Lenz Effect only has to do something with the core material... In fact I think that you are right (again and again, quite annoying!) That it has to be a combination of both... So a properly designed core can help delaying and the Bifilar wound series connected coil can help delaying the counter EMF effect even more. I came to this conclusion yesterday evening when trying only a really thick wire wound coil, which doesn't give me any good delayed effect at all. So based on this experience I had to conclude that the Lenz Delay has to be a combination of both.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

DEAR OVERUNITYGUIDE,

I HATE TO TELL YOU THIS BUT YOU MAY HAVE TO INCLUDE "SKIN EFFECT" IN YOUR ANALYSIS  :P SINCE IT HAS AN EFFECT ON WIRE AND CORE RESISTANCE AS FREQUENCY INCREASES.

CHEERS
T

Skin effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

Skin effect is the tendency of an alternating electric current (AC) to distribute itself within a conductor with the current density being largest near the surface of the conductor, decreasing at greater depths. In other words, the electric current flows mainly at the "skin" of the conductor, at an average depth called the skin depth. The skin effect causes the effective resistance of the conductor to increase at higher frequencies where the skin depth is smaller, thus reducing the effective cross-section of the conductor. The skin effect is due to opposing eddy currents induced by the changing magnetic field resulting from the alternating current

Skin effect reduction of the self inductance of a conductor. Since the skin effect causes a current at high frequencies to flow mainly at the surface of a conductor, it can be seen that this will reduce the magnetic field inside the wire, that is, beneath the depth at which the bulk of the current flows. It can be shown that this will have a minor effect on the self inductance of the wire itself; see Skilling[8] or Hayt[9] for a mathematical treatment of this phenomenon.

Note that the inductance considered in this context refers to a bare conductor, not the inductance of a coil used as a circuit element. The inductance of a coil is dominated by the mutual inductance between the turns of the coil which increases its inductance according to the square of the number of turns

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 01:52:35 PM
My replication should be ready within a day or so, for now: a little teaser of my new setup.
24 magnet poles, 20 generator coils, almost no cogging.

DEAR kEhYo77,

R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER ONCE SAID, "EVERYONE IS BORN A GENIUS, BUT THE PROCESS OF LIVING DE-GENIUSES THEM."

NICE TO SEE YOUR DESIGN GENIUS HERE 8) ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHERS!

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 02:09:03 PM
24 magnet poles, 20 generator coils, almost no cogging.

DEAR kEhYo77,

(I HOPE IT IS NOT METGLAS OR FERRITE?)

IF YOUR MAGNETS ARE ALTERNATING N-S-N-S ON THE ROTOR YOU WILL ONLY GET POSITIVE RESULTS (ie increased on-load EMF as mentioned in post # 360) FROM YOUR COILS THAT ARE PLACED ON THE SAME POLE POLARITY IE ALL NORTH POLE MAGNET POSITIONS OR ALL SOUTH POLE.

KEEP ALL THE CORES THERE THOUGH SINCE THEY BALANCE AND REDUCE START-UP COGGING - HOWEVER COGGING DIMINISHES WITH RPM :) ... SO YOU CAN PULL THE NON USED CORES OUT (IF POSSIBLE) TO REDUCE HYSTERISIS LOSSES IN THOSE UNUSED CORES ONCE YOUR SYSTEM IS UP TO SPEED.  :P GOOD LUCK!

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 21, 2011, 02:29:35 PM
@CRANKYpants

I already achieved acceleration with those ferrite cores and the 4 coils in the picture are all on the same phase (the same pole is facing them simultaniousely in NSNS config) and there are 5 phases like that. The plan is to change the core material later on to see the difference.

Thanks for kind words, Thane.

kEhYo

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 02:41:17 PM
Hi Thane

So i do suppose that if we can arrange a setup with perhaps an odd and even repartition of coils and magnets (for example 16 magnets on the drum and lets say 7 coils ) in order to reduce the cogging at minima, we could get something  usable...........really interesting. Hmmm!!

Good luck at all

Laurent

DEAR LAURENT,

MY SUGGESTION IS THAT PEOPLE ELIMINATE THE EXTERNAL PRIME MOVER AND USE THE GENERATOR COILS AS MOTOR COILS TO GET THE SYSTEM UP TO SPEED AND THEN CONVERT THE MOTOR COILS OVER GENERATOR COILS INDIVIDUALLY ONE BY ONE.

THIS IS A GOOD PLACE FOR MOTOR MAKERS TO START: http://www.simplemotor.com/hemotor.htm

THIS WAY THERE IS NO COGGING TORQUE WHICH NEEDS TO BE BALANCED.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 02:50:19 PM
@CRANKYpants

I already achieved acceleration with those ferrite cores and the 4 coils in the picture are all on the same phase (the same pole is facing them simultaniousely in NSNS config) and there are 5 phases like that. The plan is to change the core material later on to see the difference.

Thanks for kind words, Thane.

kEhYo

DEAR kEhYo,

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT - YOUR MACHINE IS A THING OF BEAUTY!
HERE'S TO HOPING IT IS MORE THAN JUST A PRETTY FACE...  ;)

I HOPE YOU KEPT YOUR CUTTING TEMPLATES, PEOPLE MAY WANT TO BUY SOME "KITS" FROM YOU LATER ON.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 21, 2011, 03:19:53 PM
Bravo also for your test. Yes it is really fantastic and somehow disturbing  :o to feel the effect in our's hands.

YOU ARE ALL JUST A BUNCH OF FREAKIN' INTERNATIONAL LAW BREAKERS    8)

T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 21, 2011, 03:53:52 PM
OK i stabilised the test-bed.

I put two wooden blocks (yes it's all very high-tech !) under the base-plate to stop it flexing when the coil is placed there.

I also cut a new shaft (carbon rod) that is longer, so there is more room between base-plate and top-plate and the coil isn't squeezing up the top-plate.

I seem to have lost a few tens of Hz though, top speed has dropped to 412 Hz. Maybe that happens with a longer shaft, i don't know anything of mechanical engineering.

It's interesting that you get the best speed from the magnet when it's center is above the drive coil center. Is the magnetic field strong at the 'curve-out' than it is at TDC of a coil ?

So the results aren't as dramatic, but the effect is still there, the coil still 'over-speeds' the rotor.

All previous tests have shown that the higher the impedance, the stronger the effect so i will buy a kilo of wire for the next test.

I stuck a voltmeter on the gen-coil and it read 272 VAC, i haven't bothered measuring current since this gauge of wire won't be used for getting power out, but it's probably micro-amps rather than milli.

I'm going to test the addition of a capacitor now.

Oops, forgot results !

First stable test-bed test, 21/10/2011.

No coil/core present.

Hz   : 412
mA   : 411

Coil/core present, open-circuit.

Hz   : 400
mA   : 415

Coil/core present, short-circuit.

Hz   : 414
mA   : 409

Hz   : 422
mA   : 404

Hz   : 420
mA   : 405

Hz   : 420
mA   : 405

Onward And Upward :)

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 21, 2011, 06:13:10 PM
DELETED double post
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 21, 2011, 06:15:16 PM
Tested the effect through a stepdown AC-AC transformer then rectifier, got speedup but no overspeed.

One thing i don't understand is, i am measuring no current at all.

I have one meter setup to read voltage, with a 10 ohm resistor between it and the gen coil.

Another meter for reading current, is clipped to either leg of the resistor.

Am i doing something wrong with the power measuring ?

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 21, 2011, 06:15:52 PM
I just did 2 test runs. At first I couldn't replicate the speed up from my previous setup at 950Hz. I started thinking what changes did I make. And it became clear. The core length in front of the coil has shortened! I readjusted my coils a little to the back and Bingo! The effect came back, starting from around 800 Hz. So the Lenz delay has got much to do with that sticking out piece of the core for the most part, I think. At least in my case.

Look at WoopyJump's latest vid how far to the back his coil is...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 21, 2011, 06:16:26 PM
Nice one keyho. The position of the core will change the inductance of the coil to a certain extent.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 21, 2011, 09:26:21 PM
Good book on transformer engineering, lots of explanations, doesn't just rely on maths alone and includes phase-shifting transformers :

http://www.mediafire.com/?6ikmb55t92wixr8

Best to all,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 22, 2011, 02:41:52 PM
"Until one is committed, there is hesitancy,the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never have otherwise occurred. A whole... stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man can have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or dream you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now." ~ Goethe
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on October 23, 2011, 01:59:48 AM
Boss
Truer words have rarely been put to print !!
Thank you for sharing this inspiration!!

Chet
PS
I'll be posting this in the mens room over the Urinal!!

"Until one is committed, there is hesitancy,the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never have otherwise occurred. A whole... stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man can have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or dream you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now." ~ Goethe
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: woopy on October 23, 2011, 05:10:01 PM
Hi all

@Kehio very nice job bravo. Hope to get more results soon.

OK today i decided to make a second serie of test.

First i doublestacked  the magnets on the rotor to get more flux

Second i changed the prime mover motor for a stronger one

third i made the measurement through a FWBR and a 1 ohm resistor ( see the pix and the shematic at the bottom of the result pix.)

So  in this new setup the threshold seems to be at around 865 rpm.

Under this speed the rotor begin slowly to slow down and goes down to very low rpm (about 230 ) and during the deceleration the current increase from 470 ma up to 570 ma.

But above the threshold the rotor accelerates.

So i made the test at 6 than 7 up to 11 volts dc on the prime mover.

And as you can see on the result sheet , the acceleration is much stronger at 10 volts than at 6 volts.

It is a pitty because at 2600 rpm i heard the bad "CLAACKK" followed by a special woble , which indicate me to immediately stop the test before beeing tranperced by some furious ejected magnets  Youp!! :-[

But i wonder what would happen if i could go much faster. I mean when we go higher above the threshold , the acceleration is even stronger.

(at 6 volt, i  can only accelerate from 950 rpm up to 1087 rpm that is an increase of 137 rpm,  but at 10 volts i go from 1197 up to 2438 rpm that is an increase of 441 rpm

What would the rpm  increase be at 20 volt ?? ::)

Of course in this test i did not take account of the increasing output of electrical energy from the coil. But i can  spin  the same DC motor as the prime mover  (slowly ) with a propeller.

I will re-re-watch the Thane's video to try to pick up some more explanation of this phenomen. And improve my test bench.

ok for today

good luck at all

Laurent
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on October 23, 2011, 06:57:02 PM
Great work.  ;)

I think it would much safer if you would move the magnets to the inside of the plastic ring.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 23, 2011, 10:06:10 PM
Great work.  ;)

I think it would much safer if you would move the magnets to the inside of the plastic ring.

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY  ;) AND DRILL A HOLE IN YOUR DISK (THE SAME SIZE AS YOUR CORE) SO YOU CAN MOUNT YOUR COIL IN THE SAME PLACE AT THE EXTERIOR.

YOU ALSO HAVE ENOUGH SPACE (I THINK) TO DOUBLE YOUR FREQUENCY (AND INDUCED COIL VOLTAGE) BY DOUBLING THE NUMBER OF POLES (INSIDE YOUR DRUM).

IF YOU ARE REALLY CRAFTY AND ENERGETIC - YOU CAN EVEN MAKE A CORE SPOKE PATTERN AND PLACE IT INSIDE THE DRUM WITH CORES ON EACH SPOKE.

YOU WILL HAVE TO MATCH UP A NORTH POLE SPOKE WITH A SOUTH POLE SPOKE ON THE OTHER SIDE BUT YOUR FLUX TRANSFER THROUGH YOUR CORE WILL BE HIGHER SO YOUR INDUCED EMF WILL ALSO BE HIGHER... WHICH WILL IMPROVE OVERALL PERFORMANCE SIGNIFICANTLY . 8)

IF YOU ARE EVEN MORE CRAFTY YOU CAN START THE ROTOR WITH THE STATOR REMOVED AND GRADUALLY INSERT IT INTO THE ROTOR THUS MECHANICALLY VARYING THE LOADED GENERATOR SPEED.  :P

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: shimondoodkin on October 24, 2011, 03:11:37 AM
i am not sure if this correct,
but something i have noticed.

kapanadze device may have something shared with this device.

in both videos they call it cold electricity they tune the current to be cut off at top of sine wave. because they say because of phase shift of the current starts to flow only after voltage begins to be high enough.
so they don't let the voltage flow.
but the not flowing voltage can charge a capacitor.
as i grasped from http://jnaudin.free.fr/kapagen/index.htm (there is overmore explanation in mit lectures near bottom about this cold electricity)

in this device you also tune the frequency so the phase shift will be most effective.

so that's the idea of similarity i have noticed

@23min-25min
and
@20min-~22min
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 24, 2011, 05:55:34 PM
Hi everyone,

just a quick update of how one could use an off the self Transformer with a small Capacitance in Series to create a Delayed Lenz Effect or Phase Shift.

The Troid used in the video demo has a 0.3 Ohm DC Resistance on each coil and they are 35mH each

The Series Capacitance is 24uf

Shunt Resistor is 1 Ohm and load is 10 Ohms

Power out is 10.8 Watts

Power in is Reactive 0 Watts

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on October 24, 2011, 07:40:40 PM
Fantastic. ;)

Some wiki:

Quote
The portion of power due to stored energy, which returns to the source in each cycle, is known as reactive power.

If the loads are purely reactive, then the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase. For half of each cycle, the product of voltage and current is positive, but on the other half of the cycle, the product is negative, indicating that on average, exactly as much energy flows toward the load as flows back. There is no net energy flow over one cycle. In this case, only reactive energy flowsâ€”there is no net transfer of energy to the load.

In your case there is obvious transfer of energy to the load so congratulations. ;)

But I think you should not stop here. Because if everyone would use reactive power then el. energy companies would start sending bills for reactive power.

If when using reactive power the energy flows toward the load and back, then there must be a way to make self or almost self sustaining circuit which will still deliver (create?) energy for load. Perhaps some sort of LC tank in resonance?

Keep up the good work. ;)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 24, 2011, 08:10:44 PM
Hi everyone,

just a quick update of how one could use an off the self Transformer with a small Capacitance in Series to create a Delayed Lenz Effect or Phase Shift.

Power out is 10.8 Watts

Power in is Reactive 0 Watts

Luc

OUTPUT POWER = 10.8 WATTS
INPUT TRUE POWER = 1.97 WATTS
EFFICIENCY = 10.8/1.97 x 100 = 548.2 %

REACTIVE POWER = 147.4 VAR

CAN ANYONE FIND AN ERROR IN MY MATH?  ;)

BTW ITS NOT DELAYED LENZ BUT "SHIFTED LENZ" AND WHY TESLA INVENTED BI-FILAR WINDINGS TO GET RID OF THE EXTERNAL CAPACITORS.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 24, 2011, 08:30:48 PM
Fantastic. ;)

But I think you should not stop here. Because if everyone would use reactive power then el. energy companies would start sending bills for reactive power.

Keep up the good work. ;)

Electronic meters display the energy used on an LCD or LED display, and can also transmit readings to remote places. In addition to measuring energy used, electronic meters can also record other parameters of the load and supply such as maximum demand, power factor and reactive power used etc. They can also support time-of-day billing, for example, recording the amount of energy used during on-peak and off-peak hours.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 24, 2011, 08:49:46 PM
OUTPUT POWER = 10.8 WATTS
INPUT TRUE POWER = 1.97 WATTS
EFFICIENCY = 10.8/1.97 x 100 = 548.2 %

REACTIVE POWER = 147.4 VAR

CAN ANYONE FIND AN ERROR IN MY MATH?  ;)

BTW ITS NOT DELAYED LENZ BUT "SHIFTED LENZ" AND WHY TESLA INVENTED BI-FILAR WINDINGS TO GET RID OF THE EXTERNAL CAPACITORS.

CHEERS
T

In Europe we pay an extra cost if the reactive power is below phase 0.9
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 24, 2011, 09:08:48 PM
In Europe we pay an extra cost if the reactive power is below phase 0.9

NOW ALL LUC HAS TO DO IS:

1) TAKE A BATTERY INVERT THE OUTPUT TO AC
2) RUN IT THROUGH HIS "SIDEWAYS" TRANSFORMER
3) BUMP IT UP BY 500%
4) RECTIFY IT
5) FEED THE OUTPUT INTO ANOTHER BATTERY AT 5 TIMES THE 1ST BATTERY INPUT
6) RUN LIKE HELL... 8)

T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 24, 2011, 09:15:36 PM
NOW ALL LUC HAS TO DO IS:

1) TAKE A BATTERY INVERT THE OUTPUT TO AC
2) RUN IT THROUGH HIS "SIDEWAYS" TRANSFORMER
3) BUMP IT UP BY 500%
4) RECTIFY IT
5) FEED THE OUTPUT INTO ANOTHER BATTERY AT 5 TIMES THE 1ST BATTERY INPUT
6) RUN LIKE HELL... 8)

T

;D ;D ;D

great
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 24, 2011, 09:18:51 PM
Electronic meters display the energy used on an LCD or LED display, and can also transmit readings to remote places. In addition to measuring energy used, electronic meters can also record other parameters of the load and supply such as maximum demand, power factor and reactive power used etc. They can also support time-of-day billing, for example, recording the amount of energy used during on-peak and off-peak hours.

Hi Thane,

thanks for doing all the full power calculations.

In the case the Utility Company would start charging for Reactive Power. Would that be for the 1.97 Watts used?

Just wondering :-\

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 24, 2011, 09:26:31 PM
Hi Thane,

thanks for doing all the full power calculations.

In the case the Utility Company would start charging for Reactive Power, would that be for the 1.97 Watts used?

Just wondering :-\

Luc

PROBABLY MORE LIKE (147.4 x 0.9) - 133.1 = 14.3 WATTS  :'( GIVE OR TAKE.

BUT IF YOU FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS ABOVE YOU'LL BE ABLE TO POWER YOUR ELECTRIC SAIL BOAT ALL THE WAY TO AFRICA AND BACK WITH ONLY TWO BATTARIES.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 24, 2011, 09:32:13 PM
PROBABLY MORE LIKE 147.4 x 0.9 = 132 WATTS  :'( GIVE OR TAKE.

BUT IF YOU FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS ABOVE YOU'LL BE ABLE TO POWER YOUR ELECTRIC SAIL BOAT ALL THE WAY TO AFRICA AND BACK WITH ONLY TWO BATTARIES.

CHEERS
T

Wow :o... that's a rip off.

I'll get the H-Bridge out and make my own Power.

Will update in a couple of days

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 24, 2011, 10:36:48 PM
NOW ALL LUC HAS TO DO IS:

1) TAKE A BATTERY INVERT THE OUTPUT TO AC
2) RUN IT THROUGH HIS "SIDEWAYS" TRANSFORMER
3) BUMP IT UP BY 500%
4) RECTIFY IT
5) FEED THE OUTPUT INTO ANOTHER BATTERY AT 5 TIMES THE 1ST BATTERY INPUT
6) RUN LIKE HELL... 8)

T

driving form zero to 16 KHz (with Arduino)

http://interface.khm.de/index.php/lab/experiments/arduino-dds-sinewave-generator/

this circuit in pure sinusoidal way

http://www.kerrywong.com/2010/03/12/a-power-inverter-with-arduino-pulse-source/

or use PWM ?

or other resonant circuit?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on October 24, 2011, 10:57:04 PM
I bought this for arduino to make DIY signal generator:

But I don't know how to amplify the signal to get something in the range 20V 3A AC. Probably something like powerful audio amplifier?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 25, 2011, 12:37:21 AM
...
BTW ITS NOT DELAYED LENZ BUT "SHIFTED LENZ" AND WHY TESLA INVENTED BI-FILAR WINDINGS TO GET RID OF THE EXTERNAL CAPACITORS.

Hi Thane,

My understanding on Tesla patent on Coil for electromagnets
http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/coil.htm is that he neutralized the coil's inductance with the capacitance attained between the bifilar wires so that the input current found resistance only that of the coil's DC resistance. Does not this mean resonance and if it does then it could not give 90Â° phase shift but zero degree only?
Quote: "I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits, a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction". Unquote

So he did get rid of the external capacitors with using the  'distributed capacitance of parallel wires but then he must have got a phase shift of near or at zero degree.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 25, 2011, 03:24:58 AM
Great news gotoluc! In the back of my mind I knew it was possible.
For those of you interested in building a cheap, pure sine wave inverter, here is a nice pdf:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 25, 2011, 08:59:04 AM
At everyone,

I connected the circuit to my H-Bridge but used 12vdc first so not to blow things up. The results are not the same then with the grid 120vac 60Hz sine wave.

There could be a mistake somewhere :-\ so lets look at this over carefully. Maybe the power meter I'm using is being fooled in this kind of configuration?

A youtube user posted this: "Sorry Luc, but I have to correct you on the voltage leading the current. In a capacitive circuit the current leads the voltage. This is what yourï»¿ scope is showing. Scope traces go from left to right with time."

I thought it was the other way around?... but I may not have it correct. Can you look over the scope shot below and comment.

I think a pure sine wave output inverter would help confirm but I don't have one. Only modified sine wave I have. I'll give that a try and let you know.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 25, 2011, 09:50:05 AM
At everyone,

I connected the circuit to my H-Bridge but used 12vdc first so not to blow things up. The results are not the same then with the grid 120vac 60Hz sine wave.

There could be a mistake somewhere :-\ so lets look at this over carefully. Maybe the power meter I'm using is being fooled in this kind of configuration?

A youtube user posted this: "Sorry Luc, but I have to correct you on the voltage leading the current. In a capacitive circuit the current leads the voltage. This is what yourï»¿ scope is showing. Scope traces go from left to right with time."

I thought it was the other way around?... but I may not have it correct. Can you look over the scope shot below and comment.

I think a pure sine wave output inverter would help confirm but I don't have one. Only modified sine wave I have. I'll give that a try and let you know.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Hi Luc,

Great Video...

Wattmeters base their reading on: E * I * cos(phi) or (power factor).

I am curious if your power meter is capable of showing the power factor. My power meter can show this value, and it shows me also if the load is running inductive or if it is running capacitive. I think that displaying that (those three individual values: E * I * cos(phi)) will help you a-lot.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on October 25, 2011, 11:10:16 AM
I bought this for arduino to make DIY signal generator:

But I don't know how to amplify the signal to get something in the range 20V 3A AC. Probably something like powerful audio amplifier?

Look around in some recycle electronics shops or even pawn shops for a pre 1980,s analogue amplifier. Old record players are a good source for dual channel analogue amps.

Digital amps for this type of experimenting are not really a good choice as many of them employ a direct coupled output, with a DC offset bias, which will affect your primary winding current consumption in a negative way. This is rare with analogue amps.

Besides that, old analogue amps are usually dirt cheap.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 25, 2011, 11:25:17 AM
Hello Gotoluc I have DSO 2090, just a tips to measure the power, use the maths function (CannelA*ChannelB) to display power, if you see a curve that have equal pulse above and bottom the zero line you have reactive power, maybe it will be much easier to read.

Channel -> Maths -> Activate -> SourceA(Channel1) -> SourceB(Channel2) ->
Operation -> A*B...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 25, 2011, 02:39:54 PM
At everyone,

There could be a mistake somewhere :-\ so lets look at this over carefully. Maybe the power meter I'm using is being fooled in this kind of configuration?

A youtube user posted this: "Sorry Luc, but I have to correct you on the voltage leading the current. In a capacitive circuit the current leads the voltage. This is what yourï»¿ scope is showing. Scope traces go from left to right with time."

I thought it was the other way around?... but I may not have it correct. Can you look over the scope shot below and comment.

I think a pure sine wave output inverter would help confirm but I don't have one. Only modified sine wave I have. I'll give that a try and let you know.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

LUC,

THE DIAGRAM BELOW SHOWS A SERIES RLC CIRCUIT. RESONANCE OCCURS WHEN XL AND XC ARE EQUAL AND IS MINIMUM IMPEDANCE AND ZERO PHASE SHIFT.

WHEN XL AND XC ARE MADE UNEQUAL AS IN YOUR CASE... TOTAL IMPEDANCE INCREASES, CURRENT DROPS, AND MOVES OUT OF PHASE WITH THE VOLTAGE.

THE PROBLEM IS THIS DIAGRAM IS FOR AN INDUCTOR BUT YOU HAVE A TRANSFORMER THERE WHICH IS ACTUALLY TWO INDUCTORS IN PARALLEL AND YOUR INDUCTANCES ARE EQUAL AND THE MAGNETIC COUPLING BETWEEN THEM IS PERFECT (M = 1).

SO... THE EQUIVALENT INDUCTANCE WILL BE ZERO AS THE TWO EQUAL INDUCTORS CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT. BECAUSE THE COUNTER FLUX FROM L2 WILL CREATE A NET 0 FLUX IN L1. IN THE DIAGRAM BELOW B WILL = 0 BECAUSE BL1 AND BL2 WILL BE EQUAL AND OPPOSITE.

SO WHAT YOUR METER AND SCOPE ARE READING IS THE POWER DISSIPATED ACROSS A 1 OHM RESISTOR AND A SMALL CAP.

I SUGGEST THAT YOU 1) REMOVE THE SECONDARY LOAD AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND 2) REMOVE THE TRANSFORMER AS WELL...?

CHEERS
T

Mutually Coupled Inductors in Parallel

When inductors are connected together in parallel so that the magnetic field of one links with the other, the effect of mutual inductance either increases or decreases the total inductance depending upon the amount of magnetic coupling that exists between the coils. The effect of this mutual inductance depends upon the distance apart of the coils and their orientation to each other. Mutually connected inductors in parallel can be classed as either "aiding" or "opposing" the total inductance with parallel aiding connected coils increasing the total equivalent inductance and parallel opposing coils decreasing the total equivalent inductance compared to coils that have zero mutual inductance. http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/inductor/parallel-inductors.html
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Jack Noskills on October 25, 2011, 02:53:12 PM
Is it possible to select C for parallel resonance so that it blocks 50/60 Hz signal ? If so, what if you then put transformer that has one way induction (e.g. gabriel device), you could then take power from it but there would be no current flowing in the source because of parallel resonance.

Normal transformer would not work because of mutual inductance that would drive the parallel circuit out of resonance. Or there would need to be tunable capacitor and adjust it differently for every different kind of load.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 25, 2011, 03:07:50 PM

[...]

WHEN XL AND XC ARE MADE UNEQUAL AS IN YOUR CASE... TOTAL IMPEDANCE INCREASES, CURRENT DROPS, AND MOVES OUT OF PHASE WITH THE VOLTAGE.

THE PROBLEM IS THIS DIAGRAM IS FOR AN INDUCTOR BUT YOU HAVE A TRANSFORMER THERE WHICH IS ACTUALLY TWO INDUCTORS IN PARALLEL AND YOUR INDUCTANCES ARE EQUAL AND THE MAGNETIC COUPLING BETWEEN THEM IS PERFECT (M = 1).

SO... THE EQUIVALENT INDUCTANCE WILL BE ZERO AS THE TWO EQUAL INDUCTORS CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT. BECAUSE THE COUNTER FLUX FROM L2 WILL CREATE A NET 0 FLUX IN L1. IN THE DIAGRAM BELOW B WILL = 0. BECAUSE BL1 AND BL2 WILL BE EQUAL AND OPPOSITE.

[...]

Dear Thane,

This is exactly what I was thinking, it runs almost totally capacitive. (sure no resonance)
So power factor is indeed almost: 0 (or almost 90 degrees capacitive). And indeed a heavily loaded transformer will respond more like a much smaller (lower ohmic) normal resistive load. So in Luc's video it could be that he is indeed showing his first steps to overunity.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 25, 2011, 03:27:08 PM
LUC,

I HAVE A 12V DC - 120 VAC INVERTER IF YOU WANT TO BORROW IT.
LET ME KNOW AS I'LL BE IN OTTAWA TODAY.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: vineet_kiran on October 25, 2011, 03:35:05 PM

To all concerned
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 25, 2011, 04:41:22 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm sorry to say but there is an error in my circuit :( ... my voltage probe was on the grid side of the series capacitor and Thane says it should be on the coil side.

Attached is the new scope shot with the probe on the coil side of the cap. As we can see there is no current and voltage phase shift.

My guess is that the power meter was fooled when I reached a certain capacitance value.

I will remove the video as the information is not correct.

Sorry for the confusion

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 25, 2011, 05:13:12 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm sorry to say but there is an error in my circuit :( ... my voltage probe was on the grid side of the series capacitor and Thane says it should be on the coil side.

Attached is the new scope shot with the probe on the coil side of the cap. As we can see there is no current and voltage phase shift.

My guess is that the power meter was fooled when I reached a certain capacitance value.

I will remove the video as the information is not correct.

Sorry for the confusion

Luc

Hi Luc,
Don't be to fast on your conclusions... Your video is showing an almost 90 degrees phase shift between grid voltage and between total setup current, so I do think that you didn't fooled your wattmeter!

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 25, 2011, 05:30:46 PM
@gotoluc Why does your new scope shot not show grid voltage vs 1 Ohm resistor voltage but instead some other voltage (output 10 Ohm I guess) is shown? I think that this is misleading...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 25, 2011, 06:09:04 PM
Hi Luc,
Don't be to fast on your conclusions... Your video is showing a 90 degrees phase shift between grid voltage and between total setup current, so I do think that you didn't fooled your wattmeter!

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Hi Overunityguide,

I don't know what to think now ???... can you answer this question. In a Series LC circuit (like below) where would the Voltage probe be connected?... where I have it or on the other side of the Capacitor?

@gotoluc Why does your new scope shot not show grid voltage vs 1 Ohm resistor voltage but instead some other voltage (output 10 Ohm I guess) is shown? I think that this is misleading...

That's because in the shot above the voltage probe is connected on the other side (coil side) of the series capacitor and you now see the capacitors activity.

I'm now unsure of its correct connection position. If someone can confirm this it would be helpful.

Thanks

Luc

EDITED

I added the Schematic of how I had the probes (green and yellow) connected in the video demo. The difference in where I think there could be an error is the yellow probe could be connected on the other side of the capacitor.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 25, 2011, 08:02:38 PM
@all
A little simulation of gotoluc's test circuit without the shunt resistor.
Apparently the phase angle between the input voltage and current stays the same no matter what I do in here hmm...
The bigger the capacitance the higher the output but the input is all reactive.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on October 25, 2011, 08:21:52 PM
Hi Overunityguide,

I don't know what to think now ???... can you answer this question. In a Series LC circuit (like below) where would the Voltage probe be connected?... where I have it or on the other side of the Capacitor?

Thanks

Luc

EDITED

I added the Schematic of how I had the probes (green and yellow) connected in the video demo. The difference in where I think there could be an error is the yellow probe could be connected on the other side of the capacitor.

Hi Luc,

Your schematic with the yellow probe and with your green one is the correct setup to measure. This is exactly the same setup as what your wattmeter uses internally. And that when you replace the yellow probe to the other side of the capacitor, you see the voltage and current in phase, is also logic. This can be expected due to the fact that you are loading your transformer with the 10 Ohm load. (this results on a higher power factor on your primary input coil)
So then again I think that your first setup is the correct one...

I also have an other question about the accuracy of your wattmeter, do you know what the accuracy is on lower loads? Lets say lower then 4 watts? I say this because I can remember that when I was buying my wattmeter, that the accuracy for the more cheaper ones was no so good at all, especially in the lower range < 4 watts.

I hope that I have explained the probes issue in an understandable way. And if you have any further questions regarding your setup, then don't hesitate to ask them.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: RAD-HHO on October 25, 2011, 08:39:17 PM
Hi Luc,

Your schematic with the yellow probe and with your green one is the correct setup to measure. This is exactly the same setup as what your wattmeter uses internally. And that when you replace the yellow probe to the other side of the capacitor, you see the voltage and current in phase, is also logic. This can be expected due to the fact that you are loading your transformer with the 10 Ohm load. (this results on a higher power factor on your primary input coil)
So then again I think that your first setup is the correct one...

I also have an other question about the accuracy of your wattmeter, do you know what the accuracy is on lower loads? Lets say lower then 4 watts? I say this because I can remember that when I was buying my wattmeter, that the accuracy for the more cheaper ones was no so good at all, especially in the lower range < 4 watts.

I hope that I have explained the probes issue in an understandable way. And if you have any further questions regarding your setup, than don't hesitate to ask then them.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

I agree. I am NoMorePetro from YouTube. I would also add here as I stated on YouTube that the voltage is lagging the current slightly less than 90 degrees.
Rick
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 25, 2011, 09:25:58 PM
@all
A little simulation of gotoluc's test circuit without the shunt resistor.
Apparently the phase angle between the input voltage and current stays the same no matter what I do in here hmm...
The bigger the capacitance the higher the output but the input is all reactive.

Thanks kEhYo77 for doing this circuit simulation. It helps and is a very interesting result.

In my test there is an ideal Capacitance value for the meter to reach Zero Watts. Once reached by just adding 0.5uf the meter would start to show 1 Watt and the more you add the more it goes up. The same happens if you reduce the Capacitance from the ideal value.

Luc

Hi Luc,

Your schematic with the yellow probe and with your green one is the correct setup to measure. This is exactly the same setup as what your wattmeter uses internally. And that when you replace the yellow probe to the other side of the capacitor, you see the voltage and current in phase, is also logic. This can be expected due to the fact that you are loading your transformer with the 10 Ohm load. (this results on a higher power factor on your primary input coil)
So then again I think that your first setup is the correct one...

I also have an other question about the accuracy of your wattmeter, do you know what the accuracy is on lower loads? Lets say lower then 4 watts? I say this because I can remember that when I was buying my wattmeter, that the accuracy for the more cheaper ones was no so good at all, especially in the lower range < 4 watts.

I hope that I have explained the probes issue in an understandable way. And if you have any further questions regarding your setup, then don't hesitate to ask them.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Thanks Overunityguide for confirming if my first probe setup was correct or not.

The Watts meter I used is not a high quality item. It's made by Blue Planet and model: EM100. Maybe someone can find something online about its accuracy at low wattage.

Hopefully Thane can bring over his High Quality Power Meter so we can re-confirm.

Luc

I agree. I am NoMorePetro from YouTube. I would also add here as I stated on YouTube that the voltage is lagging the current slightly less than 90 degrees.
Rick

Thanks Rick for doing this Spice Simulation of the circuit. Great job and idea of making a video of it.

I re-uploaded my video since I now feel confident with everyone's support that this was not an error in my part.

Thanks again for everyone's support.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 26, 2011, 03:40:37 AM
I added the Schematic of how I had the probes (green and yellow) connected in the video demo. The difference in where I think there could be an error is the yellow probe could be connected on the other side of the capacitor.

LUC,

IT IS MY OPINION THAT ONE PROBE OUGHT TO BE ACROSS THE 1 OHM SHUNT (CURRENT) AND THE OTHER ACROSS THE PRIMARY OF THE TRANSFORMER (VOLTAGE). NOT THE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY AND CAP COMBINATION.  :P

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: RAD-HHO on October 26, 2011, 04:05:13 AM

Thanks Rick for doing this Spice Simulation of the circuit. Great job and idea of making a video of it.

I re-uploaded my video since I now feel confident with everyone's support that this was not an error in my part.

Thanks again for everyone's support.

Luc

Overunityguide, I have attached the Spice shots you requested on youtube. I added a voltage divider to the input to bring down the input voltage so it would show the output voltage better on the Spice scope shot.  The input voltage is now divided by ten.  The circuit resistance did not change though.

Rick
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 26, 2011, 06:48:57 AM
Hello Gotoluc I have DSO 2090, just a tips to measure the power, use the maths function (CannelA*ChannelB) to display power, if you see a curve that have equal pulse above and bottom the zero line you have reactive power, maybe it will be much easier to read.

Channel -> Maths -> Activate -> SourceA(Channel1) -> SourceB(Channel2) ->
Operation -> A*B...

Hi SchubertReijiMaigo,

I've noticed the Math function before and did play around with it but don't quite understand it yet.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 26, 2011, 10:41:01 AM
Thanks you, I have read this thread by hazard, it seems your delayed Lenz law device device, look like Transverter device (Rotoverter sold state version) . If you read Combine.pdf you find a lot of information: especially they said in semi resonance state (like your case) L become R R become C and C become L resulting a PF of 0 in series or PF = 1 in parallel with minimum watts consumption (the real watts at secondary is not reflected to the source)... Another thing is they said for every real watts you need to circulate 10 VAR and PF 0 in order to achieve OU state, the energy is in Radio Frequency state Voltage at node/ Current at anti node... It's very look a like for me.

The PF 89 Â° that Thane has calculated is due maybe to the 1 ohm load which reflect to the line as PF=1 try to measure voltage across the coil and capacitor excluding the shunt to see what happen, if you find PF=0 Bingo !!!

Your experiment start to interest me a lot, look like that someone have put in real in real world the Transverter device with of the off the shelf device !!!

Good Job and Good luck.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 26, 2011, 12:51:48 PM
Rick

NICE WORK RICK,

NOW PLEASE PUT THE SCOPE ACROSS THE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY AND REDO THE SIMULATION.

THANKS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 26, 2011, 02:50:07 PM
I have made LT Spice simulation, with same value and parameter, the power of the secondary load is reflected to the source exactly, look like simulation is not best way to test this configuration. Simulation usually comply with law of conservation energy and are not always in accordance with reality...

What happen if you load more the trafo, maybe must be retuning the cap value to keep PF=0 with different load...

Your trafo is 12 volts with 10 Ohms load which dissipate 14 watts of real power, right ?

According to the classical law of conservation your meter should display 14 watts also... But instead display 0 watts... So I don't think your meter is fooled because your are in the 15 watts range...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: RAD-HHO on October 26, 2011, 05:03:41 PM
NICE WORK RICK,

NOW PLEASE PUT THE SCOPE ACROSS THE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY AND REDO THE SIMULATION.

THANKS
T

As you wish....

Sorry about the quality. If you can't see everything I will repost later when I have wifi available.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: RAD-HHO on October 26, 2011, 05:20:17 PM
Does anyone know why I can't attach photos here with my iPhone? Is there an app for this forum that allows attachments? If not, we need one.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 26, 2011, 05:45:18 PM
Hi everyone,

last night I picked up a Pure Sine Wave output Inverter and tested it on the circuit.

Unfortunately I don't think the Inverters circuit knows what to do with Reactive Power as there was no decrease in current draw on the 12vdc side. Watts out was Watts in.

Something else I noticed is the 24uf Capacitance used to make my Watts meter display Zero when plugged into the Grid would display 3 to 4 Watts when plugged in to the Inverter. By reducing the Capacitance to 15uf it came back to Zero. So maybe the Capacitance is doing some kind of Impedance matching and fools the meter?

I think a special circuit would be needed to recirculate this Reactive Power.
Would a Isolation transformer between a power Source and a Reactive power device be able to show a benefit? or using an alternator as power source. Could this be simulated in Spice?

I would be interested to also see if a smaller load like 1 Ohm (instead of 10) would do to the Phase. Can one of you check that in Spice.

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 26, 2011, 06:02:12 PM
As you wish....

Sorry about the quality. If you can't see everything I will repost later when I have wifi available.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS REQUIRED THANKS RAD-HHO.

UNFORTUNATLEY THE VOLTAGE AND CURRENT ARE ALMOST IN PHASE WHICH IS WHAT I EXPECTED.  :-\

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 26, 2011, 09:22:28 PM
Quote
Unfortunately I don't think the Inverters circuit knows what to do with Reactive Power as there was no decrease in current draw on the 12vdc side. Watts out was Watts in.

Yes, some Inverter can't deal with reactive power (especially capacitive one) they burn energy like active load (at the 12 Volts side) and burn up because transistor cannot support capacitive power...

Quote
Something else I noticed is the 24uf Capacitance used to make my Watts meter display Zero when plugged into the Grid would display 3 to 4 Watts when plugged in to the Inverter. By reducing the Capacitance to 15uf it came back to Zero. So maybe the Capacitance is doing some kind of Impedance matching and fools the meter?

Hmm, maybe some losses in the inverter or the voltage sightly different than the grid... Then you must "re-tune" the cap value to obtain PF=0...

Quote
I would be interested to also see if a smaller load like 1 Ohm (instead of 10) would do to the Phase. Can one of you check that in Spice.

Thanks

Luc

I have tested this also, same result as before full reflection to the source, simulation comply with conservation energy, I am skeptic to use simulation to test FE circuit... In simulation any component that have PF=1 is reflected into the source no matter what kind of circuit you use.

SRM.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 26, 2011, 09:36:32 PM
Does anyone know why I can't attach photos here with my iPhone? Is there an app for this forum that allows attachments? If not, we need one.

Attachments are done below the post text box.

There are some restrictions like, maximum individual size 500KB
and allowed file types: txt, tif, xls, doc, odt, pdf, jpg, gif, mp3, mpg, flv, mp4, mpeg, png, rm, ra, rmv, avi, zip, wmv, wma, rar, qt, mov, swf, asf, wm2d, 3gp, 3g2

Hope this helps

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 26, 2011, 09:39:50 PM

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: RAD-HHO on October 26, 2011, 10:28:43 PM
Attachments are done below the post text box.

There are some restrictions like, maximum individual size 500KB
and allowed file types: txt, tif, xls, doc, odt, pdf, jpg, gif, mp3, mpg, flv, mp4, mpeg, png, rm, ra, rmv, avi, zip, wmv, wma, rar, qt, mov, swf, asf, wm2d, 3gp, 3g2

Hope this helps

Luc

Yeah, I have posted attachments here before with my pc. I just tried doing it on my iPhone, and it would not let me. I got this... See attachment...... notice the "Choose File" is grayed out.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: RAD-HHO on October 26, 2011, 10:40:41 PM
As you wish....

Sorry about the quality. If you can't see everything I will repost later when I have wifi available.

Here are some clearer shots of this video.
InputVoltage is divided by ten to make everything presentable on the scope shot.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 27, 2011, 12:32:41 AM

Mutually Coupled Inductors in Parallel

When inductors are connected together in parallel so that the magnetic field of one links with the other, the effect of mutual inductance either increases or decreases the total inductance depending upon the amount of magnetic coupling that exists between the coils. The effect of this mutual inductance depends upon the distance apart of the coils and their orientation to each other. Mutually connected inductors in parallel can be classed as either "aiding" or "opposing" the total inductance with parallel aiding connected coils increasing the total equivalent inductance and parallel opposing coils decreasing the total equivalent inductance compared to coils that have zero mutual inductance. http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/inductor/parallel-inductors.html

some calculation with mutual inductance effect give less efficiency 444% instead of 489% (please check my calculation)

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 27, 2011, 06:48:22 PM
Hi, today i have been doing multiple-coil tests with the device i'm using to investigate acceleration-under-load.

The point of today's tests was to investigate the acceleration effect with a group of coils, connected in series.
The results have revealed a major drawback in my rotor geometry.

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/th_DSC01471.jpg) (http://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/?action=view&current=DSC01471.jpg)

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/th_DSC01470.jpg) (http://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/?action=view&current=DSC01470.jpg)

Because i am using a single, diametrically magnetised magnet, there is no point at which a coil is not within a rotating magnetic field.
This results in some undesirable behaviour.

With three coils in series, arranged around the rotor in a circular fashion, 90 degrees apart (there is a fourth, small drive coil), one of the coils will always have part of it in the North magnetic field and part of it in the South magnetic field, during this phase in rotation, the other two coils will have either North only or South only passing through them.

With regards to power generation, am i right in thinking this means that the half North/half South coil has current trying to flow in both directions ?

If so then i have to use two larger coils or go for a multi-magnet rotor setup.

It's very annoying because my device take 6 or 7 Watts to run and two coils gets me 5.7 Watts ...

Any help with the AC aspect of this greatly appreciated, i think i've diagnosed the problem correctly   :o

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on October 27, 2011, 06:59:33 PM
Hey Deep

Try a cap in series with your load after the gen coil.

Try 1uf to 10uf   not polarized(electrolytic) and of a voltage above the coils output.

It just might take ya over the edge.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 27, 2011, 07:01:29 PM
Not yet mate, i want to solve this, someone here must know enough about AC to confirm my theory ?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 27, 2011, 08:41:57 PM
Not yet mate, i want to solve this, someone here must know enough about AC to confirm my theory ?

ARE YOU STILL DRUNK OR JUST HUNGOVER AT THIS POINT DUDE?  ;)

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 27, 2011, 08:47:42 PM
Hi, today i have been doing multiple-coil tests with the device i'm using to investigate acceleration-under-load.

With regards to power generation, am i right in thinking this means that the half North/half South coil has current trying to flow in both directions ?

NO IT MEANS THAT THE SINE WAVE IS PASSING THROUGH THE ZERO POINT ON THE Y AXIS.

Quote
If so then i have to use two larger coils or go for a multi-magnet rotor setup.
Cheers,DC.

WHAT TYPE OF COILS ARE YOU USING?

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on October 27, 2011, 09:10:29 PM
Hi Thane,

HV coils, each is a half-pound of 0.25mm.

L = 20+ Henries (my LCR meter only goes to 20 for inductance).
R = ~400 ohms

They are bifilar-wound, series-connected, wired in series together.

So if a coil has a South pole and a North pole cutting it at the same time then that's not a bad thing ?

Cheers,

Gary.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Kator01 on October 28, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
Hello everyone,

I tried to replicate Luc`s setup however I measured the real-power with this famous german Hartmann & Braun Instrument ( 1980)

It is a pure Power-Meter which cannot be fooled because the current to be measured is used to magnetize a closed iron-core in the center of which a electrodynamic meter-coil ( galvanometer-coil)  is turning the needle. A small current resulting from the voltage is fed into this sensitive coil.
Now current and voltage determine the real power monitored in this Instrument in a direct way - no interpretation , no calculation by pic-programms.
In all configurations I tested ( I have a toriÃ³id-transformer with two identical secondaries specified for 50 V each )
there was always real-power flowing from the grid into the system. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %.
Wattage was in the range from 5 to 10 Watt into a 1 Ohm-Power-Resistor. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %. Phaseshift was monitored across a 0,27 Ohm Power-resistor and strange enough my scope definitely showed a 90 degree phase-shift in an configurations. This result was veryfied at the same time with a standard mechanical power-meter - Ferraris-meter - we use here in germany as the main grid-meter
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/wiki/StromzÃ¤hler (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/wiki/StromzÃ¤hler)
The minute phaseshift-difference ( maybe 2 to 5 degrees) simply escapes these digital meters and I have to confess that I first was confused by my scope-readings until I realized that these Digi-meters can not be used in these measurements and visually I was not able to detect the small difference on my scope.
The wattavi K however can not be fooled.
Sorry folks this setup does not work.
Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Kator01 on October 28, 2011, 12:39:51 AM
Hi

here on this webside ( old measurement-techique ) in figure 2 (Abb.2 ) you can see how this closed iron-meter-ring of the watavi k was construced by the
hartmann & braun engineers way back in 1980

http://www.alte-messtechnik.de/technik/elektrodynamisch.php (http://www.alte-messtechnik.de/technik/elektrodynamisch.php)

on the right side you can see the feed-in-terminals for the current.

@cranky : I placed the probe directly to the primary coil and the phasesshift of 90 degrees was gone. Voltage and current was fully in-phase.

The different cap-values I used ( 15 to 70 mykoFarad) simply changed the input voltage-level- and by this of course the current.

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 28, 2011, 02:45:45 AM
Hi Thane,

They are bifilar-wound, series-connected, wired in series together.

Cheers,
Gary.

DEAR GARY,

WHY DID YOU CONNECT THEM TOGETHER IN SERIES? ???
TRY SHORTING EACH OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 05:34:32 AM
Hello everyone,

I tried to replicate Luc`s setup however I measured the real-power with this famous german Hartmann & Braun Instrument ( 1980)

It is a pure Power-Meter which cannot be fooled because the current to be measured is used to magnetize a closed iron-core in the center of which a electrodynamic meter-coil ( galvanometer-coil)  is turning the needle. A small current resulting from the voltage is fed into this sensitive coil.
Now current and voltage determine the real power monitored in this Instrument in a direct way - no interpretation , no calculation by pic-programms.
In all configurations I tested ( I have a toriÃ³id-transformer with two identical secondaries specified for 50 V each )
there was always real-power flowing from the grid into the system. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %.
Wattage was in the range from 5 to 10 Watt into a 1 Ohm-Power-Resistor. Average efficiency was about 75 to 80 %. Phaseshift was monitored across a 0,27 Ohm Power-resistor and strange enough my scope definitely showed a 90 degree phase-shift in an configurations. This result was veryfied at the same time with a standard mechanical power-meter - Ferraris-meter - we use here in germany as the main grid-meter
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/wiki/StromzÃ¤hler (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/wiki/StromzÃ¤hler)
The minute phaseshift-difference ( maybe 2 to 5 degrees) simply escapes these digital meters and I have to confess that I first was confused by my scope-readings until I realized that these Digi-meters can not be used in these measurements and visually I was not able to detect the small difference on my scope.
The wattavi K however can not be fooled.
Sorry folks this setup does not work.
Regards

Kator01

Thanks Kator01 for taking the time to do this test and confirm what I thought.

I wrote in a prior post that I don't think a reactive circuit would have any benefit operating on its own. It would probably need a finely tuned receiving/re-injecting timing circuit to deal with the returned reactive current which is not built in the quality meter you used. So the results don't surprise me at all.
However, I do believe this circuit is sending some current back and that's what's affecting my cheap Watts meter. Probably the meters internal measuring capacitor is being re-charged when the circuits capacitance is tuned or balanced to the Meter.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 07:11:29 AM
At everyone,

I forgot to mention yesterday that my test using the pure sine wave inverter the Shunt resistor displayed larger peak (larger than grid tests) on the tops of the current peaks. So I reconnected everything to capture the scope shots. Please look them over and post what you think is the cause of this.

I also activated the Math function as user SchubertReijiMaigo had suggested in his post below.

Hello Gotoluc I have DSO 2090, just a tips to measure the power, use the maths function (CannelA*ChannelB) to display power, if you see a curve that have equal pulse above and bottom the zero line you have reactive power, maybe it will be much easier to read.

If this information is correct the math function seem to confirm it is reactive power.

First scope shot is of the current shunt only
Second is with the inverters sine wave input to the circuit
Third is with Math Function added
and Forth is with the probes separated on their own and Math Function

Please let me know what you think

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wings on October 28, 2011, 08:27:46 AM

some calculation with mutual inductance effect give less efficiency 444% instead of 489% (please check my calculation)

next
what is the best way to generate variable reactive power from DC reducing energy loss?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 28, 2011, 11:53:22 AM
@ Gotoluc, Thank you for posting that, but can you display MATHVVmean function, because it's hard to see (the curve contain a lot of harmonics (I wonder where it comes ?)

I have noticed if MATHVmean tend to go higher it' mean that the power is active, but if it stay around zero it's reactive (no matter the MATHVrms value)... Sorry for this late information (I'm still in the learning curve in AC oscilloscope measurement), Yesterday just finished to burn up my amplifier with tuned Resonant circuit...  :'( :'(
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: protein_man on October 28, 2011, 12:53:19 PM
Hello Luc, thanks for you're interesting experiments! Any chance you could measure the power feeding the inverter before and after applying the load of the transformer? This will give a good indication of power use after the inverter.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 28, 2011, 01:15:07 PM
...
I forgot to mention yesterday that my test using the pure sine wave inverter the Shunt resistor displayed larger peak (larger than grid tests) on the tops of the current peaks.
....

Hi Luc,

I think the larger peaks on top of the current peaks come from a starting core saturation, either in your test transformer core or the inverter inside output core or just both.  If you wish to test this, you can insert a series resistor higher than the 1 Ohm shunt to decrease the current, even though it is reactive. As Thane calculated it the reactive power in your previous setup from the mains was about 147 VAR (with 1.23A current) and if you allow  only 1A or slightly less current to flow instead, the spikes should get reduced or should disappear from the current peaks.

Quote
Something else I noticed is the 24uf Capacitance used to make my Watts meter display Zero when plugged into the Grid would display 3 to 4 Watts when plugged in to the Inverter. By reducing the Capacitance to 15uf it came back to Zero. So maybe the Capacitance is doing some kind of Impedance matching and fools the meter?

I think the inverter inside transformer's output coil adds its own inductance to the series LC you terminate it with and this is why you needed to reduce the capacitor to 15uF. The transformer in the inverter simply detuned your original  LC resonance.  This shows nicely that an inverter cannot really substitute the mains very low impedance, unless the inverter is designed for many kW of output power, for this would involve much lower output impedance by default.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
THIS POST WAS EDITED

Here is a replacement scope shot with Vmean on the Math.
Math is set at 50 Volts division.

Amp meter on the 12.2VDC side of the inverter shows the inverter consumes 400ma idle (nothing connected on output)
Under load it goes up to 1,130ma
The Series Capacitor used in this test is 15uF, Shunt is 1 Ohms, Secondary has a 10 Ohm Load Resistor with 6.52vac across it.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 06:48:10 PM
I deleted this post since the Scope shot Math was an error

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 28, 2011, 07:40:40 PM
According to your curve all the power is active here  :o :o  :o
Look like also the power is reflected since the input (on DC side) is increasing, finally look like this experiment is failed.  :'(
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 08:28:53 PM
What do you guys think the peaks on the top of the Shunt Sine Wave are???

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 28, 2011, 08:53:53 PM
If so what do you think the peaks are on the top of the waves ???

Luc

THEY ARE FREE AND HAPPY HUMPBACK WHALES... NOT RELATED BUT REALLY WORTH WATCHING!  8)
http://www.wimp.com/humpbackwhale/

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 28, 2011, 09:29:32 PM
Quote
If so what do you think the peaks are on the top of the waves ???

Luc

Harmonics distortion (maybe due to resonance and saturation of the core): you can see on the green curve also, and because you have "Zoomed" the MATHcurve (using high Volt/division the oscilloscope make the product of two and the deformation is "amplified" on the red curve, but nothing strange here, the most important is the red curve which is above the zero line: power doesn't return to source...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 28, 2011, 10:34:23 PM
Hi Luc,

I still think the transformer core starts saturating (even though its primary AC current is just under 700 mA in your latest test when you had 22 Ohm shunt resistor in series with the primary coil).  The time-coincidence of the red scope waveform's spikey peaks with that of the green input current shows this I believe.

In the link below  you can see a scope shot on current shape through a saturating inductor (note: there is a misprint, D4 in the text below the schematic should read as D3).
http://www.dos4ever.com/flyback/flyback.html#ind2

What output power is the sine wave inverter manufactured for, just curious, I do not think you overload it.

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nul-points on October 29, 2011, 12:06:34 AM
If so what do you think the peaks are on the top of the waves ???

Luc

hi Luc

try slowly varying the frequency, either side of that shown in the above trace - is there a maximum in  the pk-pk o/p, nearby?

if so, select that frequency then slowly increase the i/p voltage from a lower initial value - do you get to an i/p voltage where those 'sharp peaks' suddenly snap into view on the regular waveform? (possibly accompanied by more noise from the trafo)?

i've seen something like this recently - will check

thanks
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 12:48:13 AM
According to your curve all the power is active here  :o :o  :o
Look like also the power is reflected since the input (on DC side) is increasing, finally look like this experiment is failed.  :'(

Hi SchubertReijiMaigo and everyone

An Electronics Engineer looked at the scope shots and noticed the math did not make sense.

As I said in my post when I turned off one probe the Math changed. But what I did not notice is the Math automatically changed to multiply Channel A to Channel A.

So you were looking at NOTHING real. You guys must be on drugs

I Edited the posts above with the correct scope shot, DC current reading and Shunt Resistor

So it looks like it is reactive after all

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 29, 2011, 01:37:29 AM

So it looks like it is reactive after all

Luc

GOD'S LITTLE KNOW 12th COMMANDMENT: "THOU SHALT NOT UNDERESTIMATE MASTER LUC" ~ GOD...  ;)
WHICH COMES RIGHT AFTER THE 11th AND IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED FOR SOME STRANGE REASON?  :-[

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 29, 2011, 01:54:25 AM
THIS POST WAS EDITED

I added an Amp meter on the DC side of the inverter and it idles at 400ma (nothing connected on output) and under load it's at 1,130ma - 10 Ohm Load Resistor with 6.52vac across it and the Shunt is 1 Ohms.

Luc

OK - THE OUTPUT IS 4.25 WATTS... WHAT IS THE DC INPUT VOLTAGE MR. MASTERBOATER?
12 VOLTS?

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 01:57:48 AM
Harmonics distortion (maybe due to resonance and saturation of the core)

It's not Saturation!... this is a 300VA Toroid. It will not Saturate at this low of a Current input.

Please note that this only happens when using the Sine Wave Inverter and not when Connected to the Grid.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: nul-points on October 29, 2011, 02:08:30 AM
hi Luc
[...]
i've seen something like this recently - will check

thanks
np

yeah, this is what i remembered seeing - a YT video by user 'selfonlypath' showing results obtained with his 'Transverter' setup (2x MWO trafos modified & connected together, then driven with an 'H' bridge)

at a combination of resonance and with the i/p volts just passing thro' a threshold, the o/p sine wave 'snaps' into a more triangular waveform with elongated peaks

the snapshot below captures the moment when the o/p changes from a sine to a 'triangular' wave with peaks

of course, you may just dismiss people's contributions as 'being on drugs'   ...but you did ask for feedback   ;)

cheers
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 02:09:50 AM
Hi Luc,

I still think the transformer core starts saturating (even though its primary AC current is just under 700 mA in your latest test when you had 22 Ohm shunt resistor in series with the primary coil).  The time-coincidence of the red scope waveform's spikey peaks with that of the green input current shows this I believe.

In the link below  you can see a scope shot on current shape through a saturating inductor (note: there is a misprint, D4 in the text below the schematic should read as D3).
http://www.dos4ever.com/flyback/flyback.html#ind2

What output power is the sine wave inverter manufactured for, just curious, I do not think you overload it.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

you may want to edit your post (if you still can) Please look at the Replacent scope shot above.

Regarding the peaks, it's not Saturation of the core. This is a 300VA Toroid, it takes much more current then that to Saturate it. Also, please note that these peaks only happen when connected to the sine wave Inverter. When connected to Grid there are no Peaks. See post with Grid scope shot on the next page

The Inverter is rated at 1000 Watts Continuous. Paid \$300. for it

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 02:16:12 AM
OK - THE OUTPUT IS 4.25 WATTS... WHAT IS THE DC INPUT VOLTAGE MR. MASTERBOATER?
12 VOLTS?

CHEERS
T

Yes, 12.3 Volts DC

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 02:29:04 AM
Here is the identical setup but connected to the Grid

15uf series capacitor, 1 Ohm Shunt, 10 Ohm Load @ 6.70vac

If this was Saturation then where are those Peaks?

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 03:48:24 AM
yeah, this is what i remembered seeing - a YT video by user 'selfonlypath' showing results obtained with his 'Transverter' setup (2x MWO trafos modified & connected together, then driven with an 'H' bridge)

at a combination of resonance and with the i/p volts just passing thro' a threshold, the o/p sine wave 'snaps' into a more triangular waveform with elongated peaks

the snapshot below captures the moment when the o/p changes from a sine to a 'triangular' wave with peaks

cheers
np

Thanks nul-points for posting this video once again. It was posted on page 14 by plengo: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301689#msg301689

This great researcher explains and demonstrates that one needs an accurate timing circuit to recover energy from a Reactive circuit.

I have said and I believe we are subject to the same.

Anyone interested should study this technique and post their ideas of a recovery/recirculating circuit.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 29, 2011, 05:12:24 AM
THIS POST WAS EDITED

Luc

IS THIS 1.13 mA OR IS IT 1.13 A?
IT WOULD BE NICE IF WAS 1.13 mA BECAUSE YOU EFFICIENCY WOULD BE 32297.3%  8).

OTHERWISE INPUT CURRENT = 720 mA AND PRIMARY DC RESISTANCE = 0.3 OHMS
IF PRIMARY POWER FACTOR IS INDEED 0.0 THEN Pp = 0.216 WATTS WITH AN EFFICIENCY OF ONLY 2078.2%.  :-[

IF THE PHASE SHIFT IS 81 DEGREES (AS I SEE IT) PF = 0.15 AND IF Pcurrent = 727 mA AND Pvoltage = 112 V THEN

Pin = 112 x 0.727 x 0.15

= 12.7 WATTS AND Pout = 4.49 WATTS AND EFFICIENCY = 35.4%  :'(
A PHASE SHIFT OF 87 DEGREES OR PF = 0.052 GIVES AN EFFICIENCY OF 105%.

IF THE DC INPUT CURRENT IS 1.13 A AND THE DC VOLTAGE IS 12.3 VOLTS THEN THE EFFICIENCY IS 32.3%

1) WE ONLY SEE 1/2 OF THE SINE WAVE (180 DEGREES) AND THEN
2) EXPAND THE VOLT/DIV SO THE LINES ARE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN AND THEN
3) MAKE THE YELLOW LINES EQUAL ON BOTH SIDES.

NOW WE CAN CALCULATE THE PHASE ANGLE CORRECTLY.

ALSO NOTE POSITION OF RED "POWER" SINE WAVE IS SLIGHTLY HIGHER ON TOP AND NOT QUITE EQUAL FOR A PF OF 0.0 - CAN YOU TWEAK IT WITH ANOTHER CAP VALUE?

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 07:31:34 AM
Hi Thane

it is 1.13 Amps and your math seems to be correct.

I always learn new stuff as I go so there is nothing wasted (other than power ;D)... I'm only going to get better at this.

Thanks for everyone's input

Luc

PS hey! nice scope shot. That is the ultimate one. We'll get there
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 08:38:20 AM
Hey Thane,

have a look at these Shots

I decided to re-test my GTL-90 compared to the Toroid and the GTL-90 is better

First shot is GTL 90 with 22 ohm shunt, 1uf series cap, 10 ohm load @ 0.42vac

Second shot is Toroid with 22 ohm shunt, 1uf series cap, 10 ohm load @ 0.42vac

Let me know what you think

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 29, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
@ Gotuluc: don't worry, I'm not on the drug or anything illicit...

When you posted the first curve page 31, sorry but it was obvious that your MATH curve was totally active (PF=1), you have reedited your post and display a curve which is reactive...

The first curve in your post above is reactive while the second is slightly active...

So the cap have the ability to correct both L and the reflect R in the trafo ?

One problem in this setup: the output power is very low, 0.42 Volts through 10 Ohms is not very much, here a huge risk of measurement error must be take into account before any conclusion...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on October 29, 2011, 12:26:28 PM
Hi Luc,

I accept the 300W toroid transformator cannot show signs of saturation, albeit the scope shots on the current (i.e. voltage drop across the shunt) shows, this is why I suspected starting saturation somewhere in the setup.
To explore where those spikes on the current peaks may come from it would be good to test the inverter output terminated with a resistor that draws about 1 Amper current from the 118V AC output and see on the 1 Ohm (or 10 Ohm) current shunt whether the spikes are there or not.  I say this test because perhaps the sinewave inverter includes a low pass filter at its output make the sinewave from the 'uggly' switched waveforms and the low pass filter may include a choke coil with a core that may start saturating...  a guess from me, one would not expect such behaviour from a 1000W inverter but those spikes must be caused by something...

Gyula

EDIT  It occured to me a better way would be to load the inverter output with a 22 uF capacitor and see on the 1 Ohm series shunt how the current waveform looks like for a capacitive load (because your resulting load from the series LC was capacitive nature). The 22uF (or near to this value) means a 1 Amper capacitive load current for the inverter output.

Hi Gyula,

you may want to edit your post (if you still can) Please look at the Replacent scope shot above.

Regarding the peaks, it's not Saturation of the core. This is a 300VA Toroid, it takes much more current then that to Saturate it. Also, please note that these peaks only happen when connected to the sine wave Inverter. When connected to Grid there are no Peaks. See post with Grid scope shot on the next page

The Inverter is rated at 1000 Watts Continuous. Paid \$300. for it

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 29, 2011, 03:43:52 PM
Hey Thane,

have a look at these Shots... Let me know what you think

Luc

LUC,

WE NEED TO KNOW HOW HIGH THE TRANSFORMER EFFICIENCY HAS TO BE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE INVERTER EFFICIENCY...  :P

CAN YOU PUT A LOAD IN THE INVERTER AND FILL IN THE BLANKS BELOW SO WE CAN CALCULATE THE EFFICIENCY OF THE INVERTER?

EVERY TEST YOU DO OUGHT TO INCLUDE THE DATA BELOW BECAUSE THAT INVERTER EFFICIENCY CHANGES AS IT HEATS UP RIGHT?

DC INPUT SIDE

DC VOLTAGE =
DC CURRENT =
DC INPUT POWER =

AC OUTPUT SIDE

(DON'T ASSUME YOUR RESISTORS ARE PURELY RESISTIVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT)

AC OUTPUT POWER =
DC INPUT POWER =
INVERTER EFFICIENCY = (AC OUTPUT / DC INPUT) x 100 = ? %

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 29, 2011, 03:58:22 PM
THIS POST WAS EDITED

Amp meter on the 12.2VDC side of the inverter shows the inverter consumes 400mA idle (nothing connected on output) Under load it goes up to 1.130 A
Luc

IF WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON LET'S LOOK AT THE (SOURCE) INPUT REACTION TO LOADING...

DC INPUT CURRENT ON IDLE (NO-LOAD) = 0.4 A
INPUT POWER ON NO-LOAD = 4.88 WATTS

DC INPUT CURRENT ON LOAD = 1.13 A
INPUT POWER ON ON-LOAD = 13.8 WATTS

THIS MEANS THAT THE INVERTER HAS TO WORK HARDER TO DELIVER POWER TO THE LOAD REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SCOPE SAYS...

MY SUGGESTION IF I WERE YOU WOULD BE TO DELIVER POWER ON THE AC SIDE WITHOUT ANY CURRENT INCREASE (REACTION) ON THE DC SIDE  ;)

CHEERS
T

PS

IT WOULD ALSO BE GOOD TO KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE IS TO THE INVERTER WITH NO COIL ATTACHED AND THEN WITH COIL ATTACHED?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 30, 2011, 10:43:52 AM
@gotoluc

Maybe you should try this driving circuit from Romero at your secondary, it looks promissing...

In some of the 'acceleration under load' videos Romero showed this attached circuit to be responsible for the speedup effect.
I did a simulation of that replacing Hall sensor with a zener diode.
The result is blinking led with power disipation shown on the right graph and on the left we've got power taken from the rotor...

This can be done in 1:1 transformer too, I think so... ;)

This sim is just an example. You would have to play with parameters (right mouse button on a componetnt to edit) to make it right...
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: madddann on October 30, 2011, 10:43:58 PM
Hi gotoluc!

Could you please make another scope shot with the load 20W or 50W (i'm sure you have some automotive lightbulbs laying around) and with the capacitor retuned, so we can see what the power curve looks like?

Dann
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on October 31, 2011, 04:43:07 AM
Let me know what you think
Luc

USE IT TO DRIVE YOUR PRIMARY?

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 31, 2011, 05:57:41 AM
IF WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON LET'S LOOK AT THE (SOURCE) INPUT REACTION TO LOADING...

DC INPUT CURRENT ON IDLE (NO-LOAD) = 0.4 A
INPUT POWER ON NO-LOAD = 4.88 WATTS

DC INPUT CURRENT ON LOAD = 1.13 A
INPUT POWER ON ON-LOAD = 13.8 WATTS

THIS MEANS THAT THE INVERTER HAS TO WORK HARDER TO DELIVER POWER TO THE LOAD REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SCOPE SAYS...

MY SUGGESTION IF I WERE YOU WOULD BE TO DELIVER POWER ON THE AC SIDE WITHOUT ANY CURRENT INCREASE (REACTION) ON THE DC SIDE  ;)

CHEERS
T

PS

IT WOULD ALSO BE GOOD TO KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE IS TO THE INVERTER WITH NO COIL ATTACHED AND THEN WITH COIL ATTACHED?

Hi Thane,

I've been winterizing my sailboat and cleaning and re-packing my storage as I'm flying out of the Country this Tuesday.

I also returned the sine wave Inverter.

It uses 400ma @12.5vdc with nothing connected to the outputs.

Sorry but the time I had for testing is over for at least a month if not more

I'll be keeping an eye on the topic from abroad. However, Internet access is very limited where I'm going to be.

Talk to you in some time

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 31, 2011, 06:14:32 AM
USE IT TO DRIVE YOUR PRIMARY?

CHEERS
T

I have a video I did some years back (Jan 3, 2009) of a coil in resonance setup this way. It was a spool of speaker wire.

Anyways, there is a mutual Inductance and Capacitive coupling between his signal generator hot and ground. This YouTube experimenter just can't see the Current because he's using a moving coil Amp meter which is fine for low frequencies but it's not going to show any activity at 300KHz

He would need to use his scope and a shunt resistor to see the AC current at these frequencies.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on October 31, 2011, 06:22:13 AM
@gotoluc

Maybe you should try this driving circuit from Romero at your secondary, it looks promissing...

In some of the 'acceleration under load' videos Romero showed this attached circuit to be responsible for the speedup effect.
I did a simulation of that replacing Hall sensor with a zener diode.
The result is blinking led with power disipation shown on the right graph and on the left we've got power taken from the rotor...

This can be done in 1:1 transformer too, I think so... ;)

This sim is just an example. You would have to play with parameters (right mouse button on a componetnt to edit) to make it right...

Interesting circuit idea and Sim kEhYo77

Do you think it is realistic?... if so, I was able to tune it to return current ;D  You just have to wait 3 or 4 minutes till it reaches the 44 Watts range.

Let me know what you think

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on October 31, 2011, 10:01:34 AM
Quote from: gotoluc

Do you think it is realistic?... if so, I was able to tune it to return current ;D  You just have to wait 3 or 4 minutes till it reaches the 44 Watts range.

Let me know what you think

Luc

Well it seems to be working in this video so I think it is worth trying.

Like I said, you have to play with the parameters ;) I achieved even higher output at some point but we have to check it's performance in a real life setup.
Right now the inductance of the transformer is a bit unrealistic but this circuit is just a base to work on.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on November 01, 2011, 07:12:06 AM
Hi everyone,

I couldn't resist to test kEhYo77 circuit simulation in real time.

It's now 2am and I fly out of the Country this afternoon, so I may not have internet access for a few days unless I get some free wi-fi in one of the airports I'll be going through.

For the test I used another Toroid that I have that has Dual 120vac coils which are 300mH each and 2.3 Ohm DC Resistance

Also, I only noticed (after the electronic store was closed) the Transistor was an PNP and not your standard NPN. However, I manage to find an old one in my salvage stuff. It's model A671. Probably not the best but it works. I tested its hfe and it about 67 to 70

Below is a link to the Simulation with all the correct values of components that I used. I also used 60Hz grid at 12.25vac adjusted by my variac.

The scope shot below is with a 1 Ohm shunt resistor on the green trace. The the probes are setup in the standard way that I have been doing to measure current and voltage (yellow) on the input side.

I used my digital meter on the output side to measure the voltage across the 10 Ohm load Resistor. It is at 4 Volts AC = 1.6 Watts. I also included a second scope shot by moving the yellow voltage probe across the 10 Ohm load so you can see its wave form.

I did include the scopes Math function in the first scope shot as you can see but I'm not qualified to do the power calculations. Please help as I don't know what to do with Vmean with Negative reading ???

It definitely looks interesting

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on November 01, 2011, 11:33:50 AM
@Luc I'm glad you tried it. It is very interesting indeed.
The tuning should be more like this, I think:

A added resistors responsible for DC resistance of the transformer windings. I removed the zener diode too.
Now it seems that we have a win-win situation, where power is being returned to the grid (-17W) and at the same time power is being dissipated at the load (10W).
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on November 01, 2011, 11:35:16 AM
This circuit is much closer of the Transverter + Diode Plug extration (sine wave clipping) I have read once again over +200 pages of RV document that I keep inside my PC...  basically the RV circuit use CAP transformer and resonance, tuned in very High Q mode... Then they extract power from CAP with some transistor (like here) when the capacitor is at full voltage and current at 0, so extraction from resonance doesn't affect it... The input power remain reactive (like here, according your red curve) while delivering real joule to the load... A formula (based upon empirical experience) give you the maximum amount of extractable energy in caps because if you over extract then you start to kill resonance oscillation... The formula is 0.618* the circulating VARS in the trafo without the diode plug...
And last Vmean is negative but very small it could be with some imprecision here, the most important is the input is PF=0 here see the red curve energy back and forth to the source !!!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: woopy on November 01, 2011, 12:10:01 PM
Hi Kehyo

Thank's for the circuitery

Just a question about the transformer. In your setup you have 300 H and not 300 mH. Where do you find a so high inductance transformer ?

I have tried the circuit in the sim with 37 mH and 1.5 Ohm resistance and i can not go under 500 Hz at 10 volts input sig to get a higher output to input result in the sim.

Can you confirm the transformer at 300 H ?

Thank's

Laurent
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on November 01, 2011, 12:37:42 PM
@woopy Yes. It was my mistake, sorry for that. I have edited my previous post now the inductance of the primary and the secondary is 300mH. Now it should be OK in the simulation too, when it comes to the in/out power.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on November 01, 2011, 01:16:24 PM
http://www.vortexnetworknews.com/
Vortex Network News 3-Hour Program on Radio Nsearch on Blog Talk Radio
(Sunday, October 30, 2011)
Host - Aurora Light

"The Inventor of the Infinity Generator - Thane Heins"

The 1st Hour - Aurora Light and Doctor Whodini talk about current events.

The 2nd Hour & 3rd Hour - Doctor Whodini's special guest is the inventor of an overunity device called the Infinity Generator, Thane Heins.

Thane says his Regenerative Acceleration Generator Technology represents a major breakthrough in EV and HEV design which will now allows all EVs to CONTINUALLY RECHARGE THEIR BATTERIES and may provide UNLIMITED RANGE.

Thane talks about his rotating and solid-state designs.

The device works by delaying the Lenz's Law Effect, which is Newton's Third Law.

Aurora's Health Website:
http://HealthGalleria.com

Michael's Channel For The Masters Website:
http://ChannelForTheMasters.com

Doctor Whodini's Websites:
http://ProgressiveTechCenter.org
http://Intalek.com

Doctor Whodini opens the segment talking about the speedy neutrino:
http://dvice.com/archives/2011/10/speedy-neutrino.php

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: futuristic on November 01, 2011, 02:51:35 PM
I played with circuit and removed some components.
Could it be this simple?

-> Check out simplified circuit (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+0.2954511527092107+39+5.0+50%0Av+80+352+80+224+0+1+60.0+12.25+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AT+176+272+256+272+2+0.3+1.0+0.8164045257958074+-0.8096984208189324+0.999%0Aw+176+272+176+224+0%0Aw+176+304+176+352+0%0Ar+176+224+80+224+0+2.3%0Ar+384+160+384+304+0+10.0%0Ar+256+304+304+304+0+2.3%0Ac+304+304+384+304+0+0.0010+-0.22478442913614316%0Ac+80+352+176+352+0+0.0020+-0.020359549099211303%0Aw+256+272+256+160+0%0Aw+256+160+384+160+0%0Ao+0+64+1+291+20.0+9.765625E-5+0+-1%0Ao+8+64+0+35+2.5+1.6+1+-1%0Ao+5+64+1+35+10.0+9.765625E-5+2+-1%0A)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on November 01, 2011, 04:07:03 PM
ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE HERE I WOULD LIKE TO WISH LUC A SAFE AND ENJOYABLE FLIGHT TO AFRICA...  8)

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW LUC VOLUNTEERS HIS CONSIDERABLE REPERTOIRE OF TALLENTS & SERVICES AT AN ASHRAM FOR THE BETTERMENT OF ALL.  :D

YEP, SOUNDS LIKE LUC!  ;)

CHEERS
T

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on November 01, 2011, 04:56:01 PM
Let There Be Light!  (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+26.59566520631553+37+5.0+50%0Av+192+288+192+160+0+1+50.0+230.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AT+288+208+368+208+2+0.3+1.0+1.5906036224774247+1.092800093052599+0.999%0Aw+288+208+288+160+0%0Aw+288+240+288+288+0%0Ar+288+160+192+160+0+2.3%0Ac+192+288+288+288+0+8.999999999999999E-5+-92.91599347758881%0Aw+368+208+368+160+0%0Ar+368+160+464+160+0+2.3%0Aw+368+240+368+288+0%0Ac+368+288+464+288+0+8.999999999999999E-5+-97.57038167636782%0A181+464+160+464+288+0+1732.4236712156078+600.0+230.0+0.4+0.4%0Ao+0+64+1+291+1197.2621413014756+4.8828125E-55+0+-1%0Ao+10+64+1+35+1197.2621413014756+9.765625E-55+1+-1%0Ao+5+64+0+35+299.3155353253689+11.972621413014757+2+-1%0Ao+9+64+0+35+299.3155353253689+11.972621413014757+3+-1%0A) 660W light out -700W back to the grid (European 230/50) :D
... I just have to try that! Thanks CRANKYpants
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect - Romero's circuit ...
Post by: DeepCut on November 01, 2011, 06:30:25 PM
Hi all, so we're all on crack and drugs and drink ?

I'm having a cup of tea and a ciggy, but i'm boring like that ;+}

@Luc and Keyho, Romero's circuit is the same as the standard SSG driving circuit but with a Hall sensor rather than a coil.

@ Thane,

thanks for advising me not to connect them serially !

Results of multi-coil tests :

No coils present.

hz : 502

ma : 452

1 coil present open circuit.

hz : 417
ma : 472

1 coil present short circuit.

hz : 505
ma : 445

2 coils present, both open circuit.

hz : 393
ma : 475

2 coils present, both short circuited.

hz : 514
ma : 438

3 coils present, open circuit.

hz : 388
ma : 474

3 coils present, all SC

hz : 511
ma : 440

I think i understand why two coils outperformed three with my setup.

Because it is a single-magnet rotor, the two coils on opposite sides of the magnet are synchronised in the sense that they both experience the flux change at the same time, whereas the third coil, which is in the middle of the other two, experiences flux-change after the first coil and before the second of the other two coils, so the timing is wrong and possibly fights against the effect from the other two.

I confirmed this by moving the third coil closer to one of the others and performance goes up.

Obviously the single-magnet design has it's limitations, the physical space required for many coils isn't available and the timing problem.

I'll be making a multi-magnet rotor now but in the meantime i'll experiment with getting power out of this device, time to order some high-current wire ;+}

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: matthewklinko on November 01, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
Let There Be Light!  (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+26.59566520631553+37+5.0+50%0Av+192+288+192+160+0+1+50.0+230.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AT+288+208+368+208+2+0.3+1.0+1.5906036224774247+1.092800093052599+0.999%0Aw+288+208+288+160+0%0Aw+288+240+288+288+0%0Ar+288+160+192+160+0+2.3%0Ac+192+288+288+288+0+8.999999999999999E-5+-92.91599347758881%0Aw+368+208+368+160+0%0Ar+368+160+464+160+0+2.3%0Aw+368+240+368+288+0%0Ac+368+288+464+288+0+8.999999999999999E-5+-97.57038167636782%0A181+464+160+464+288+0+1732.4236712156078+600.0+230.0+0.4+0.4%0Ao+0+64+1+291+1197.2621413014756+4.8828125E-55+0+-1%0Ao+10+64+1+35+1197.2621413014756+9.765625E-55+1+-1%0Ao+5+64+0+35+299.3155353253689+11.972621413014757+2+-1%0Ao+9+64+0+35+299.3155353253689+11.972621413014757+3+-1%0A) 660W light out -700W back to the grid (European 230/50) :D
... I just have to try that! Thanks CRANKYpants

Using that circuit simulator, you are graphing power consumed.

The source does not consume power , it generates power hence the negative power.

There is no overunity it that.

If you don't believe me, do your own calcs, graph the voltage ad current and multiply them, and you will get positive power.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on November 02, 2011, 12:43:36 AM
Can anyone recommend a good circuit simulator ?

Cheers,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on November 02, 2011, 12:57:38 AM
Hey Deep

Falstad.com has Circuit, as shown in posts above  ^   =]

Poynt uses Spice, he may be able to help you with that.
I havnt used it yet.

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on November 02, 2011, 01:04:07 AM
The negative power in sims is not OU: It's a manner to display the power draw from source, if you have for example -10 watts peak, its' meaning you REMOVE 10 watts peak from source and not you inject it !!! It's a beginner error that I've learned few day ago when experimenting. I'm skeptic to extract resonance directly like this without High Q and Transverter diode plug clipping circuit (extracting without killing the resonance...)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on November 02, 2011, 01:11:51 AM
Cheers Magz :)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on November 02, 2011, 10:37:27 AM
Hi you all,

I would like to let you know that I have removed my Free Energy replication videos from youtube, this because I am going to get really busy with my new job next months. And because I will be a-lot away (programming software outside the Netherlands next months) So that I cannot do any further commenting and experimenting at all. (Unfortunately, just like gotoluc)
So as a result of this I have decided to remove my youtube video's. Further I would like to let you know that I have had great times on experimenting with the Thane C Heins effect/experiments. I personally know that the claimed effect is there and I do think that great thinks can be accomplished with it in the near future. So I wish you all the very best and I hope that I have contributed on further explaining things that in the time of today are not well understood.

So especially Thane, thanks a-lot for your support and your always positive attitude.

I wish you all the very best, and I really can't wait to the time when I can buy off the shelf appliances with this technics in it.

The very best to you all and with Kind Regards, Overuntyguide
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on November 02, 2011, 12:56:35 PM
Hi OUG,

thanks for your contribution, it educated a lot of us. Good luck in your new job.

For anyone who needs to see OUG's videos, i have copies of them all and could upload them to my youtube account, if OUG doesn't want them seen by his employers or colleagues in the future, i can make the videos viewable only by certain users.

Thanks again OUG and all the best for the future,

Gary.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ramset on November 02, 2011, 05:32:55 PM
Thanks so much For all you Do OUG And LUC
We are working on something else Here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8999-peter-daysh-davey-water-heater-query-27.html

For making heat and cleaning [purifying ] water ,Some folks are finding amazing things??
If it works as advertised We'll send one to you in Africa Luc!!
You 2 Boss.........

Thanks
Chet

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on November 04, 2011, 11:15:28 PM
Hi everyone,

I have reached South Africa and the trip was perfect all the way.

added resistors responsible for DC resistance of the transformer windings. I removed the zener diode too.
Now it seems that we have a win-win situation, where power is being returned to the grid (-17W) and at the same time power is being dissipated at the load (10W).

@kEhYo77, interesting simulation results once again. Can you explain what the 2.3 Ohm resistor on the primary side will do.

Hello Gotoluc I have DSO 2090, just a tips to measure the power, use the maths function (CannelA*ChannelB) to display power, if you see a curve that have equal pulse above and bottom the zero line you have reactive power

SchubertReijiMaigo posted this, so I started using it. In my previous post (prior page) the scope shot Math is showing this. Do we agree the circuit is operating on Reactive?... if so how do we calculate the power in with the negative Math data?

ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE HERE I WOULD LIKE TO WISH LUC A SAFE AND ENJOYABLE FLIGHT TO AFRICA...

Thanks Thane

No coils present.
hz : 502
ma : 452
2 coils present, both short circuited.
hz : 514
ma : 438

I think i understand why two coils outperformed three with my setup.
Because it is a single-magnet rotor, the two coils on opposite sides of the magnet are synchronised in the sense that they both experience the flux change at the same time, whereas the third coil, which is in the middle of the other two, experiences flux-change after the first coil and before the second of the other two coils, so the timing is wrong and possibly fights against the effect from the other two.

@DeepCut, great results you are having. I agree with your magnet rotor conclusion

Hi you all,
I would like to let you know that I have removed my Free Energy replication videos from youtube, this because I am going to get really busy with my new job next months.
I wish you all the very best, and I really can't wait to the time when I can buy off the shelf appliances with this technics in it.
The very best to you all and with Kind Regards, Overuntyguide

@Overuntyguide, thanks for sharing your experiments and results.  Wishing you all the best in your new job.

For anyone who needs to see OUG's videos, i have copies of them all and could upload them to my youtube account, if OUG doesn't want them seen by his employers or colleagues in the future, i can make the videos viewable only by certain users.

@DeepCut, it seems Overuntyguide has not objected to you hosting his videos on your youtube account so please go ahead as it could be usefull to other researchers.

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: poynt99 on November 05, 2011, 12:28:50 AM
Hi everyone,

I have reached South Africa and the trip was perfect all the way.

Luc

Hey Luc.

Any chance you'll be in CapeTown? Consider paying a visit to Rosemary if you are.

.99
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on November 05, 2011, 12:32:28 AM
@ Luc

Ye i messaged him on toitube, i thought it best to ask permission.

This whole phenomenon we're all dealing with is really interesting, it's contains parts of all the famous pulse-motors and translating that idea to the transformer seems to be achievable.

I am trying to find 'E' laminations that fit my coil-former barrel and have space for the wound coil.

My gf would love me to go solid-state, the rotor's an awful noise @ 500 Hz ;+}

Best to all,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on November 05, 2011, 01:32:25 AM
Hey Luc.

Any chance you'll be in CapeTown? Consider paying a visit to Rosemary if you are.

.99

Hey .99,

it's been a while since we've exchanged.

I'm in Durban now and will be in Johannesburg later in December. I went for a short visit to Cape Town last year (beautiful place) but at the time I didn't realize (or remembered) Rosemary lived there. If I happen to go this year I'll contact her in advance to see if we can meet. Anything in particular you want me to check for you?... you can email me (if you wish) at gotoluc@yahoo.com

BTW, could you calculate the power input to the circuit using the scope shot data I posted in the previous page?

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on November 05, 2011, 02:16:59 AM
Thanks so much For all you Do OUG And LUC
We are working on something else Here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8999-peter-daysh-davey-water-heater-query-27.html

For making heat and cleaning [purifying ] water ,Some folks are finding amazing things??
If it works as advertised We'll send one to you in Africa Luc!!
You 2 Boss.........

Thanks
Chet

All the best to you Chet with your experiments. Give us an update when you're satisfied with the results.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Overunityguide on November 06, 2011, 08:08:24 AM
Hi OUG,

thanks for your contribution, it educated a lot of us. Good luck in your new job.

For anyone who needs to see OUG's videos, i have copies of them all and could upload them to my youtube account, if OUG doesn't want them seen by his employers or colleagues in the future, i can make the videos viewable only by certain users.

Thanks again OUG and all the best for the future,

Gary.

Hi Gary, thank you.

And yes, you may post all of the videos on youtube without any restrictions. The only reason that I have removed them is that, from now on I cannot comment with a high enough update rate any more.

But one more thing about the videos, I think it would be good to ask Thane himself about re-uploading my videos. After all it concerns a replication of his great work...

All the best to you all. And with Kind Regards, OUG
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on November 06, 2011, 01:54:23 PM
Hi Gary, thank you.
But one more thing about the videos, I think it would be good to ask Thane himself about re-uploading my videos. After all it concerns a replication of his great work...

YES ACTUALLY I DO WANT TO PUT THE VIDEOS ON MY YOUTUBE PAGE - CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO DO IT ???

ALSO OUG (WHOEVER THE HECK YOU ARE  :-X) MY JOB OFFER STILL STANDS!
YOU ARE ONE TALENTED DUDE - I HOPE YOUR EMPLOYER APPRECIATES YOU...

THANKS AGAIN FOR NOT ONLY REPLICATING THE WORK SO BEAUTIFULLY BUT BY ALSO TAKING SUCH A CLEAN SCIENTIFIC APPROACH WHICH NO ONE CAN REFUTE.

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on November 06, 2011, 06:25:51 PM

For firefox :

For internet explorer :

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on November 08, 2011, 06:36:44 PM
The new test-bed for a multi-magnet setup is now ready :

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/DSC01475.jpg

24 neos 10x10mm, N42, 0.52 Tesla going North/South around the rotor.

Same drive coil/circuitry before, a-la-Bedini SSG with the charging component removed.

Wil post results,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on November 08, 2011, 11:14:03 PM
The new test-bed for a multi-magnet setup is now ready :

Same drive coil/circuitry before, a-la-Bedini SSG with the charging component removed.

Wil post results,

DC.

HEY DC,

VERY NICE... IS YOUR ROTOR LEXAN OR PLEXIGLASS?

CAN YOU POST THE MOTOR CIRCUIT PLEASE?
AND ROTOR MAGNET ORIENTATION IS?

CHEERS
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: CRANKYpants on November 09, 2011, 12:20:24 AM
RECENT CORPORATE TECHNOLOGY DEMO IN TORONTO...

Here is a better video...

https://myaccount.dropsend.com/file/4e8d4ef88fd5c9d7

Cheers
T
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on November 09, 2011, 08:40:17 PM
Hi it's polycarbonate.

I got it for free because there is a 2mm wobble, so i only had to pay for the magnets.

Circuit :

I tried having them all same pole out but they are too close to trigger a change in the drive coil so i have to have them N/S or get weaker amgents.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 08, 2011, 02:50:09 PM
I've been testing the new setup, with occasional pauses for sleep and food ;+}

It seems that it generates more power than it uses but i will have to wait until i get a scope (new year).

Here's a vid :

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on December 09, 2011, 07:55:38 PM
I've been testing the new setup, with occasional pauses for sleep and food ;+}

It seems that it generates more power than it uses but i will have to wait until i get a scope (new year).

Here's a vid :

DC.

Excellent looking setup DC!

Does the coil Voltage output stay at 446vdc when you connect the Amp meter?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 09, 2011, 09:23:14 PM
Thanks Luc :)

The voltage RISES due to the amp meter being a small load and the acceleration-under-load effect taking place !

it shows that in the video but my voice is a bit mufled

On Thane's advice i will try them connected in parallel, but i tried that with the old setup and got no AUL but we'll see.

As it is the effect only supports a very small range of loads.

I'm having trouble measuring voltage and current at the same time, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, on one occasion i got a shock from one wire only which surprised me.

I'm testing smaller coils as well, 50 grammes rather than 500 grammes of copper. The effect is much better with the 50g coils for some reason.

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wojwrobel on December 10, 2011, 10:59:53 AM
hello

have you guys tried to put inductor in series with load ? it also changes the cos(phi) by 90 degrease!

something similar to stanley meyer circiut but just one inductor??

oh maybe stans work was based on phase change so the primary side of transformer didnt see the load? so he could make hydrogen by regular electrolysis but transformer didnt see the amp draw? he used few khz so xl=2(pi)f*L the bigger the (f) frequency the bigger the phase shift!!

well we cant get very high L without high wire resistance because L=uN^2A/l so many turn are needed (or high (u) core ) the resistance is problematic, only one figure which is frequency is left to play !

so we can get cos (phi) with the formula

(http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/946/cosphi.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/cosphi.jpg/)

so if we do hi L hi R  or low L low R it really doesnt mater whats mater is the frequency!!

you can put figures to formula for diferent coils and you see that only figure you can play is FREQUENCY!!!

you can find some more calculation here
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/rlimp.html#c1
cheers from poland
wojsciech
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wojwrobel on December 11, 2011, 06:04:41 PM
hello

and once again mr Tesla did it first !!! pat 512,340 COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS

Quote
I have found that in every coil there exists a certain relation between its self-induction and capacity that permits a current of given frequency and potential to pass through it with no other opposition than that of ohmic resistance, or, in other words, as though it possessed no self-induction. This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current and the self-induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency.  It is well-known that the higher the frequency or potential difference of the current the smaller the capacity required to counteract the self-induction; hence, in any coil, however small the capacity, it may be sufficient for the purpose stated if the proper conditions in other respects be secured.  In the ordinary coils the difference of potential between adjacent turns or spires is very small, so that while they are in a sense condensers, they possess but very small capacity and the relations between the two quantities, self-induction and capacity, are not such as under any ordinary conditions satisfy the requirements herein contemplated, because the capacity relatively to the self-induction is very small.
In order to attain my object and to properly increase the capacity of any given coil, I wind it in such way as to secure a greater difference of potential between its adjacent turns or convolutions, and since the energy stored in the coil considering - the latter as a condenser, is proportionate to the square of the potential difference between its adjacent convolutions, it is evident that I may in this way secure by a proper disposition of these convolutions a greatly increased capacity for a given increase in potential difference between the turns.
I have illustrated diagrammatically in the accompanying drawings the general nature of the plan which I adopt for carrying out this invention.
Figure 1 is a diagram of a coil wound in the ordinary manner.
Figure 2 is a diagram of a winding designed to secure the objects of my invention.  Let A, Figure 1, designate any given coil the spires or convolutions of which are wound upon and insulated from each other.  Let it be assumed that the terminals of this coil show a potential difference of one hundred volts, and that there are one thousand convolutions; then considering any two contiguous points on adjacent convolutions let it be assumed that there will exist between them a potential difference of one-tenth of a volt.

If now, as shown in Figure 2, a conductor B be wound parallel with the conductor A and insulated from it, and the end of A be connected with the starting point of B, the aggregate length of the two conductors being such that the assumed number of convolutions or turns is the same, viz., one thousand, then the potential difference between any two points in A and B will be fifty volts, and as the capacity effect is proportionate to the square of this difference,
the energy stored in the coil as a whole will now be two hundred and fifty thousand as great.

Following out this principle, I may wind any given coil either in whole or in part, not only in the specific manner herein illustrated, but in a great variety of ways, well-known in the art, so as to secure between adjacent convolutions such potential difference as will give the proper capacity to neutralize the self-induction for any given current that may be employed.  Capacity secured in this particular way possesses an additional advantage in that it is evenly distributed, a consideration of the greatest importance in many cases, and the results, both as to efficiency and economy, are the more readily and easily obtained as the size of the coils, the potential difference, or frequency of the currents are increased.
Coils composed of independent strands or conductors wound side by side and connected in series are not in themselves new, and I do not regard a more detailed description of the same as necessary.  But heretofore, so far as I am aware, the objects in view have been essentially different from mine, and the results which I obtain even if an incident to such forms of winding have not been appreciated or taken advantage of.
In carrying out my invention it is to be observed that certain facts are well understood by those skilled in the art, viz: the relations of capacity, self-induction, and the frequency and potential difference of the current. What capacity, therefore, in any given case it is desirable to obtain and what special winding will secure it, are readily determinable from the other factors which are known.
What I claim as my invention is: A coil for electric apparatus the adjacent convolutions of which form parts of the circuit between which there exists a potential difference sufficient to secure in the coil a capacity capable of neutralizing its self-induction, as herein before described.
A coil composed of contiguous or adjacent insulated conductors electrically connected in series and having a potential difference of such value as to give to the coil as a whole, a capacity sufficient to neutralize its self-induction, as set forth.
NIKOLA TESLA  Witnesses: Robt. F. Gaylord
Parker W. Page

so what he means is we can wind coil bifilar connect in series we can multiply inductance (energy stored) of our coil by 250,000 !!! or squere voltage diference between wires!
thats very intresting!!

so then we can reduce frequency or eliminate the core which is not perfect anyway!!!

what you guys think

cheers from poland
wojsciech
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on December 11, 2011, 09:46:37 PM
Is to say that the enormous power stored, is taken from the source?

Ive read it before, but thanks for posting it.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: wojwrobel on December 12, 2011, 07:12:20 AM
well not really, from the source!

source see this power in real time P=U*I*cos(phi) where cos(phi)=>0 degrease which is 1 so it have time to react with lenz effect, but we need this momentearli power storage for phase shift so our source would not see the the consumed power (or will not have time to response with more energy consumption) which is also P=U*I*cos(phi) where cos(phi)=>90 degrease which is 0

so basicaly by delaying current on generators coil we can avoid lenz effect, magnet passes and just after we consume the power stored between wires...

cheers from poland
wojsciech
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Dave45 on January 23, 2012, 03:21:07 PM
The magnetic and electric fields of a coil or magnet

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: listener191 on March 07, 2012, 02:06:52 PM
Hello Everyone,

The coils employed in this prototype are 4.5 ohms, 16 gauge bi-filar wound series connected with M1 core laminations and create acceleration at 1800 RPM with a 10 ohm light bulb. Each coil can produce 50 Watts or more and the magnets are 90 lb pulling weight. They create so much torque and acceleration that two set screws on each rotor were not enough to keep them secured to the drive shaft and they had to be returned to the machinist to have key-ways installed. Even now the air gap on each side is about 1/2 an inch. When properly balanced with three rotors and offset cores the cogging torque is virtually zero and the core "cost" was very low - which is reduced as speed increases anyway and is NOT an issue.

I will post the test data when I find it to end this discussion (which is a waste of time BTW) because all generators have coils and cores with some hysterisis losses inherent in them but not all generators accelerate when a load is applied which is the REAL issue.

Cheers
Thane
Hi Thane,
I am confused about the size of the coil referred to in this message.
I had a look at the link you provided and took a still image of the side view of the generator.
Assuming the magnet dia is about 25mm, The stators look to be about 12mm thick and the spacing between the stators around 71mm.
Allowing for the coil bobbin end thickness, this give about a 67mm winding length. The coil diameter looks to be about 60mm.
Now the coil is bifilar series connected, so I assume the 4.5 ohms is the total resistance for the two coils in series.
4.5 ohms of 16AWG is about 341m, so in the winding space there would have to be about 1596T, 50T per layer and 32 layers.
The problem with this is that results in a coil diameter of about 112mm, assuming a 27mm diameter former over the core.
Even though these are just rough estimates, the coil diameter is grossly different to what I would expect for a 16AWG 4.5ohm coil.
Could you put me straight here?
Thanks
Barry

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: juan_86 on May 04, 2012, 07:41:39 AM
i have been studying Delayed lenz effect and it is interesting.. i just wondering that if what we looking for is phase shift between primary current and secondary current, why not tuned primary and secondary to resonance. At resonance the primary current 45 degree out phase with each other. Simulation in attachment

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on May 04, 2012, 04:13:28 PM
Hi juan_86,

You are right! at Resonance Voltage and Current are 90 degrees out of phase. However, as soon as you try to pull some power out of the circuit everything changes. That is my experience anyways.

The one who can find a way to extract energy form a Resonant circuit without affecting it will have achieved a great thing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on May 05, 2012, 01:31:46 AM
Hi juan_86,

You are right! at Resonance Voltage and Current are 90 degrees out of phase. However, as soon as you try to pull some power out of the circuit everything changes. That is my experience anyways.

The one who can find a way to extract energy form a Resonant circuit without affecting it will have achieved a great thing

Luc

Ive put out this document a few times. This may be a cure for the resonant ills. ;]

In the first couple pages, variant 2, it is said that the output from the secondary does not kill the primary resonance.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ruin41 on May 05, 2012, 02:48:27 AM
Hi Dave45, It is really important when posting info to make sure it is correct and while reversing your drawings would create the correct opposite scenario it requires that the drawing be correct in the first place. Others are going to see this and assume it is correct and go off using it to formulate thier ideas and projects. Your top drawings are wrong in the spin direction through the coils in that you have clearly defined a coil that has equal and opposing fields at each end and at the bottom your drawing shows a horrizontal alignment which is actually only correct when applied vertically to the left and right pair. I tried to quote your post here but it wouldnt work and im about to try and add a picture here that i have never done before to show what i am talking about here.
Garry
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: juan_86 on May 05, 2012, 05:07:58 AM

yes, introducing load will change the resonance balance. my idea is like this, what if we set the secondary to resonance at high voltage. As you can see, the secondary voltage increase slowly like energy collector. then we setup spark gap at secondary tuned  circuit to discharge the energy collected into capacitor.  Spark gap could transfer the energy fast enough to not change the resonance.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on May 05, 2012, 04:03:16 PM
Ive put out this document a few times. This may be a cure for the resonant ills. ;]

In the first couple pages, variant 2, it is said that the output from the secondary does not kill the primary resonance.  ;]

Mags

Hi Mags,

thanks for you post.

I remember seeing this document some years back. I don't know if any of these techniques work?

If you know of any researcher who have built this please post a link.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on May 05, 2012, 04:21:06 PM

yes, introducing load will change the resonance balance. my idea is like this, what if we set the secondary to resonance at high voltage. As you can see, the secondary voltage increase slowly like energy collector. then we setup spark gap at secondary tuned  circuit to discharge the energy collected into capacitor.  Spark gap could transfer the energy fast enough to not change the resonance.

Hi juan_86,

sounds like a good idea!... have you built and tested it yet?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on May 05, 2012, 05:00:47 PM
Here is the code for Falstad.com/circuit   simulator.

Click and release the switch at the top right to start the charge of the LC, which consists of the primary of a 1 to 1 transformer.
The spdt switch in the middle switches in and out the additional inductor on the loaded secondary.

You will see that when the inductor is added to the secondary in series with the load that the primary resonance is preserved and without the inductor it is dead.

\$ 1 5.0E-6 9.78399845368213 50 5.0 43
r 192 80 400 80 0 0.1
s 400 80 464 80 0 1 true
w 192 80 192 352 0
c 192 352 400 352 0 1.4999999999999999E-5 4.0E-323
v 464 352 464 80 0 0 40.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
r 400 352 464 352 0 9.92
T 336 176 400 256 0 0.01 1.0 0.0 -2.5E-323 0.999
w 400 80 400 176 0
w 400 256 400 352 0
S 336 176 272 176 0 0 false 0
w 224 160 272 160 0
w 272 256 224 256 0
w 272 256 272 192 0
r 272 256 336 256 0 10.0
l 224 256 224 160 0 0.01 0.0
o 3 64 0 35 7.62939453125E-5 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 0 64 0 35 7.62939453125E-5 9.765625E-5 1 -1
o 4 64 1 291 7.62939453125E-5 9.765625E-5 2 -1

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on May 07, 2012, 05:33:01 AM
Hi Mags,

I played with this circuit simulator last year and then built the circuit. The real results are not the same as the simulator. Its name is very close to false ;D

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on May 07, 2012, 05:47:05 AM
Hi Mags,

I played with this circuit simulator last year and then built the circuit. The real results are not the same as the simulator. Its name is very close to false ;D

Luc
Hey Luc
Well I wasnt going for ou in the sim. Just showing an example of how to keep the primary resonating while taking from the secondary.

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on May 07, 2012, 06:16:59 AM
I understand but chances are it won't work as this simulator shows

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ruin41 on May 08, 2012, 01:32:23 AM
You cant delay lenz in the real world. Thanes setup is clearly showing forward emf and yet he is careful to leave that conclusion up to the viewer rather than state it in any of the video's i have seen. Compare what he is doing to Adams, Bedini etc collecting the colapse and suddenly you can see what causes this. Whats also missing from thane is the numbers eg what the actual draw is relative to say speed on the scooter and what speed would be achievable on a standard motor on said scooter with the same draw, same can be said for the generator part of it. Just like a bedini setup it only looks good as a test bench device because the output from the colapsing flux field remains the same even though the draw increases to do any work. Thanes system isnt delaying lenz it is converting bemf to femf to add to the drive input rather than take from it.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 07, 2012, 02:06:58 AM
Gotoluc, Gyula, Mags ?

I've been at this on and off and am getting good results with small transformers and loads, anyone else still doing this ?

Gotoluc isn't answering emails or youtube messages, anyone know what he's up to ?

Thanks,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on December 07, 2012, 03:44:02 AM
Gotoluc, Gyula, Mags ?

I've been at this on and off and am getting good results with small transformers and loads, anyone else still doing this ?

Gotoluc isn't answering emails or youtube messages, anyone know what he's up to ?

Thanks,

DC.

Hey Deep

Been working on a sound system for this guy. 1974 Impala. He is nuts. 4 10s in each door, + 1 8 and 2 tweets. Trunk lid motorizes up and 10 8s, 4 tweets.
And theres more. 12000 watts, not including the 4 15s subs.   :o :o

I told ya he was nuts. ;]

Can ya show us what you got going? ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: plengo on December 07, 2012, 04:23:40 AM
There is beautiful. I would want one of those in Brazil. We would have a nice party!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on December 07, 2012, 05:05:16 AM
There is beautiful. I would want one of those in Brazil. We would have a nice party!

Fausto.

Thanks   ;]

He will probably be deaf before most rock stars.  ;]

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on December 07, 2012, 06:36:58 AM
snip...
Been working on a sound system for this guy. 1974 Impala. He is nuts.
snip...
Mags

If you're talking about Impala amplifiers ? they were affectionately known in the hey day, as "the great impalers".

Brian Eno made his debut as a music producer in the early seventies, releasing new state of the art, hi fidelity "wall of sound" recordings of prominant 70's bands.

In the studio he listened to every post mixed session on headphones, blasted at max through his "impaler".

LOL

I wonder how his hearing is these days.!

Cheers ...... P.S. if you're talking about Impala - the car, ignore everything I've just said .... LOL
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 07, 2012, 12:13:06 PM
Hey Mags :)

Can't believe those ten 8's in the back !

Excellent-looking job you're doing on them.

I've been a bit busy with other stuff (life !) so i have only been able to experiment off and on, so i haven't really gone much further. Just been trying to nail down the characteristics of acceleration under load (AUL from now on!).

I made a transformer version that performs better than the pulse-motor version. With the transformer i attach a load, say a light bulb, the bulb lights and the current draw to the transformer primary goes down a lot more than it did with the pulse motor.

This is a 12V/65mA bulb, and when i attach it the input power drops 60mA, while the bulb is drawing 65mA at full brightness.

We are lucky in that you get greater rewards from this effect the more power you put in. With increased input power your percentage return gets bigger !

I don't know if it has OU potential but it certainly saves a lot of energy, it's ideal for anything with an alternator and that runs on batteries.

Even as it stands, you could scale up the transformer a little and run a table light off it, but at 90%+ energy savings !

It's a crazy effect and i can't believe research on it seems to have gone quiet.

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 08, 2012, 02:57:30 AM
Anyone know what's up with Luc ?

No reply to my emails or YT messages. No appearance on forums since May :(

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on December 08, 2012, 03:25:24 AM
snip...

I made a transformer version that performs better than the pulse-motor version. With the transformer i attach a load, say a light bulb, the bulb lights and the current draw to the transformer primary goes down a lot more than it did with the pulse motor.

This is a 12V/65mA bulb, and when i attach it the input power drops 60mA, while the bulb is drawing 65mA at full brightness.

We are lucky in that you get greater rewards from this effect the more power you put in. With increased input power your percentage return gets bigger !

snip...

Do you have a circuit diagram and list of components you could share ?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on December 08, 2012, 04:47:44 AM
Anyone know what's up with Luc ?

No reply to my emails or YT messages. No appearance on forums since May :(

DC.

Maybe he is hanging out with oilpiggy.

This was Lucs last post here at ou.

http://www.overunity.com/13068/friction-heater-running-in-my-house/msg342382/#msg342382

That was the first I looked at that thread. Interesting.  Maybe try asking Oilpiggy if he has heard from Luc.

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 08, 2012, 06:00:02 AM
Do you have a circuit diagram and list of components you could share ?

hoptoad of course i do :)

You remember it was your article that got me so inspired with this when i was looking at Adams' motors ?

I'm a bit drubk just now so keep it short.  I'm getting a better camera next week plus a few pounds of wire, or maybe the week after for the wire.

my old stuff is on the youtube channrl :

but that was a tiny effect, 5 hertz and 5 mA.

Will do some videos, but it's nothing new or groundbreaking, just confirmation of Thane's stuff.

All the best,

DC/

e2a :

i mesaged you anda raved about it to the acceleration under load people.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 08, 2012, 06:00:40 AM
Maybe he is hanging out with oilpiggy.

This was Lucs last post here at ou.

http://www.overunity.com/13068/friction-heater-running-in-my-house/msg342382/#msg342382 (http://www.overunity.com/13068/friction-heater-running-in-my-house/msg342382/#msg342382)

That was the first I looked at that thread. Interesting.  Maybe try asking Oilpiggy if he has heard from Luc.

Mags

Cheers Mags :)

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on December 08, 2012, 06:15:04 AM
snip.....
You remember it was your article that got me so inspired with this when i was looking at Adams' motors ?

snip....
i mesaged you anda raved about it to the acceleration under load people.

LOL Forgive my memory.... it ain't what it used to be!

Cheers and KneeDeep
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on December 08, 2012, 05:47:10 PM
Here's Skycollection' newest regenerative acceleration effect video:

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 08, 2012, 06:50:04 PM
LOL Forgive my memory.... it ain't what it used to be!

Cheers and KneeDeep

How do you know it's not what is used to be

;+}
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on December 08, 2012, 10:31:43 PM
Anyone know what's up with Luc ?

No reply to my emails or YT messages. No appearance on forums since May :(

DC.

Hi DC and everyone,

sorry for the delay in reply.

I'm still around!... just been real busy doing a house renovation job for a month and had no internet access. I've got internet now but I've got no home, so no lab to do experiments.

Wishing you the best in your experiments.

I've been assisting skycollection to help him achieve a Lenz free generator. I asked him to redo the video (posted above) but this time turn on and off the bulb (load) so we can see the generator has no effect on the prime mover.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 08, 2012, 11:07:14 PM
Oh thank god !

I thought you'd been living on reactive power and the MiBs had got ya ;+}

I must look into skycollection's new stuff, i'm sure i subscribe to his channel but haven't had updates.

Are you well Luc ? Any develpoment with the transformer ?

I recently got back to experimenting, took the AUL motor/generator a bit further along the way, i'm just following Thane's path of discovery.

I'm now on hybrid coils, AUL coils with high inductance but also fair current-carriers (0.5 amps), i hope to have something useful to show within a week, not OU, just useful :)

All the best,

nibs.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on December 09, 2012, 12:53:25 AM
How do you know it's not what is used to be

;+}

LOL - That's a great question !
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on December 09, 2012, 01:17:51 AM
LOL - That's a great question !

Speaking of (sort of) time travel, you seen that trillion frames-per-second camera ?

We can now watch a discrete packet of photons as they move through the air in front of this amazing camera from MIT :

Cheers,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on December 09, 2012, 07:12:06 AM
Speaking of (sort of) time travel, you seen that trillion frames-per-second camera ?
We can now watch a discrete packet of photons as they move through the air in front of this amazing camera from MIT :
Cheers,
DC.

We live in amazing times! Thanks for posting that!
Cheers and KneeDeep
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 09, 2012, 10:49:29 AM
Speaking of (sort of) time travel, you seen that trillion frames-per-second camera ?

We can now watch a discrete packet of photons as they move through the air in front of this amazing camera from MIT :

Cheers,

DC.
absolutely phenomenal!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on December 09, 2012, 08:02:47 PM
I must look into skycollection's new stuff, i'm sure i subscribe to his channel but haven't had updates.

This is the video I mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEzQUz_efGA&lc=ed_cMyY6wQ1Je1KZ7GCFtj7_GJAFVhfjeydtVeiUXc4

However, he is not turning on and off the load so it cannot be conclusive that there is no generator effect. I posted a comment that he should make a new video to demonstrate this and here is his private reply to me: "Hi Luc, i apreciate very much your commentaries, but i am not in position to make more videos about the same matter, i have not implements, laboratory, economic support to continue with this experiments, or make new experiments about something is clear, my motor-generator is product of my imagination only....! thanks for watching"

Looks like he's taking all credit that this is a product of his imagination... :-\ when I have sent him many emails to explain how to build a pancake generator coil that will have self capacitance to give the effect. Better be careful with this guy

Are you well Luc ? Any develpoment with the transformer ?

I'm doing very well DC ;) ... thanks for asking

All the best in your experiments

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 18, 2013, 11:38:38 PM
I am beginning to think that, in a multi-magnet rotor, driven by a DC motor, the acceleration and current drop aren't just due to retarding the rise time in the coils.

If it is that way, then when frequency is increased there should be a sweet spot, then a dead zone, etc ...

So i can't see how it is just about 'releasing the energy just after TDC', as Thane is quoted as saying in a couple of interviews.

At higher frequencies the rotor can do more than one revolution before the rise-time of the coil is met which implies that either positioning of the magnet is unimportant after a certain frequency or all of us have been very lucky not to have found dead zones ...

I think there's something else going on, thoughts ?

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: NoBull on February 19, 2013, 12:31:27 AM
Take look at this video (http://youtu.be/SHbQXnXK6Xc?t=5m48s).
It seems to show a delayed magnetic effect.
The shorted coil "freezes" the magnetic field in the core through the Lenz effect.

Normally the magnetic field produced by electric current flowing in a coil decays very quickly, but in this experiment the attractive magnetic field is not produced by the coil but by the atoms of the core and the coil only prevents the randomization those atoms ...hence the coil delays the decay of the magnetic field created by those atoms.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on February 19, 2013, 11:42:15 PM
Hi NoBull,

If you have not seen the second part of those tests, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY

I agree with what you wrote.  You can find a new thread on these videos on this forum started by Hel who speculated whether the test was a hoax and  where I have given a possible explanation for the phenomena.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 19, 2013, 11:45:26 PM
Thanks nobull, and thanks gyula for the second link.

What do you think of the effect in a rotor riven by a DC motor, both current draw decrease and rotor speed increase ?

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on February 19, 2013, 11:51:09 PM
Hi Deepcut,

It would help me if you explain a bit more details on the setup you think of...  sorry.  You mean the phenomena in the video NoBull referred to here or something else?

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 20, 2013, 02:25:40 AM
I mean delayed lenz, is it something more than just increasing the rise time in the coil ?

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 20, 2013, 07:16:33 AM
I mean delayed lenz, is it something more than just increasing the rise time in the coil ?
DC.

With reference to a rotor driven by a dc motor, the rise time of the generating coils is not the cause of the AUL (acceleration under load) and the resultant reduced dc motor drive current.

Rather, when the generator coil is sufficiently loaded at a given rpm, (frequency), the current delivered by the coil will be phase shifted with respect to the voltage, within the coil.

It is a delayed current phase with respect to voltage (within the generator coil) that causes the "delayed lenz" effect.
The magnetic drag of the cores and the counter mmf produced by the coils with respect to the inducing rotor magnets are both greatly reduced by the delayed current (phase shifted wrtV).

It is specifically the ratio between the total combined resistance of the load and the coil itself, and the inductive reactance of the coil, that matters most.

Since the inductive reactance of any coil increases with frequency, then the frequency of the generated AC will determine whether current phase (within the coil) lags (i.e delayed wrtV) and AUL occurs, or whether normal counter mmf occurs with a resultant DUL, because the current phase shift is less than 45 degrees.

The same coil that causes DUL (deceleration under load ) when the rpm of a given rotor is, lets say, 2000 rpm, will likely surprise you by showing AUL when the rpm is 3000, because at the higher rotor speed, (higher frequency), there will be a greater coil current phase shift when under load, than at 2000 rpm.

Hope that's clearer than mud ....... KneeDeep
Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Newton II on February 20, 2013, 08:24:41 AM

The same coil that causes DUL (deceleration under load ) when the rpm of a given rotor is, lets say, 2000 rpm, will likely surprise you by showing AUL when the rpm is 3000, because at the higher rotor speed, (higher frequency), there will be a greater coil current phase shift when under load, than at 2000 rpm.

May be you are right.   I don't believe in any 'delayed lenz effect'.    Actually action and reaction happen at the same instant.  Force always happens in pairs.  Action cannot be performed without reaction and reacion cannot exist without action.   If reaction is delayed  beyond action  then Newton's third law itself becomes invalid which is highly impossible.  ' delayed lenz effect'  is the funniest name that you can give to this phenomenon.  If AUL happens because of delayed lenz's effect,  then it should happen at all speeds of the rotor but we know that it happens only after crossing certain minimum speed.

I feel that AUL happens because  of remenance or residual force which is also portrayed in another experiment posted in this forum in which two U shaped cores with a shorted coil stick together even after switching off the source current.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 20, 2013, 08:55:55 AM
Quote
Actually action and reaction happen at the same instant...

And this is where you are wrong...
When it comes to induction the reaction is not instant. It is restricted by the speed of light!
That is why there is a possibility for that 'trick' (Delayed Lenz) to happen.
Tesla knew that and that is why his transformer is so interesting.
Imagine pulsing a one turn primary (d=2m) with a nano second HV pulse and turning of the power...
The secondary in the middle will receive that disturbance of the field (which 'travels' through the air at the speed of light @~0,3 m/ns) ~3ns later!
So any EMF induced in the secondary is decoupled from the primary power, and that 'reflected BackEMF WAVE' can be harvested back in the primary.

Is it not?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Newton II on February 20, 2013, 09:51:03 AM

The secondary in the middle will receive that disturbance of the field (which 'travels' through the air at the speed of light @~0,3 m/ns) ~3ns later!
So any EMF induced in the secondary is decoupled from the primary power, and that 'reflected BackEMF WAVE' can be harvested back in the primary.

Is it not?

But that is not the principle used in Thane Hein's device.   Is it not?   I am talking about the motor - generator set which is shown by overunityguide at the beginning of this thread.     Can you meet the above said condition in that motor - generator set?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 20, 2013, 10:05:06 AM
That was an example for the speed of the 'disturbace' in air.
In the case of using a ferromagnetic core as a transfer medium for 'momentum' the speed will be much lower than the speed of light :)
For a conductive core, where there is lots of eddy currents the 'wave' slows down the most, hence the delayed effect can be observed at lower frequencies with solid iron cores. Laminated silicon steel cores are 'a bit faster highway' and ferrites are like a race track ;)

Take a look at this video from MrAnguswangus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=653JgoBT1Uc)

He can obtain the effect at very low frequencies as the core (a bunch of solid iron rods in 'U' shape) he is using provides significant delay because of its length (long path to travel for the wave) and eddy currents, IMHO.

Now a clue from Ed Leedskalnin's notes to use, solid, aluminium bobbins for the generator coils with ferromagnetic cores might be understood this way. It provided a closed loop flywheel effect for eddy current, slowing down the wave... like a permanent magnet slowly falling down through a copper pipe :)

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 20, 2013, 10:38:05 AM
snip.....
I feel that AUL happens because  of remenance or residual force which is also portrayed in another experiment posted in this forum in which two U shaped cores with a shorted coil stick together even after switching off the source current.

The dynamics of the two different systems give rise to two different phenomenon. In the case of the two U shaped cores experiment, predominant reason for the sticking is residual magnetism.

In the case of the moving rotor magnets and generator coils, phase delays in coil current cause a phase delay in the core/coil's self induced magnetic field. It is this self induced field created by the coil's current, when the coil has a load, that normally has a breaking effect on the driver.

Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 20, 2013, 11:27:45 AM
OK, quite a few things to absorb there.

Hoptoad you said "the rise time of the generating coils is not the cause of the AUL".

You then said "It is specifically the ratio between the total combined resistance of the load and the coil itself, and the inductive reactance of the coil, that matters most."

Well, the rise time of the generator coil IS the ratio between the total resistance and the inductance ?

Newton, you said "If AUL happens because of delayed lenz's effect,  then it should happen at all speeds of the rotor but we know that it happens only after crossing certain minimum speed. ".

If it happens because of a delayed rise time then it SHOULDN't happen at all speeds of the rotor, if it was about releasing CEMF when the magnet was at TDC then we would have dead zones and normal generator action zones.

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: SchubertReijiMaigo on February 20, 2013, 12:26:30 PM

Sorry to be off topic, but

And this is where you are wrong...
When it comes to induction the reaction is not instant. It is restricted by the speed of light!
That is why there is a possibility for that 'trick' (Delayed Lenz) to happen.
Tesla knew that and that is why his transformer is so interesting.
Imagine pulsing a one turn primary (d=2m) with a nano second HV pulse and turning of the power...
The secondary in the middle will receive that disturbance of the field (which 'travels' through the air at the speed of light @~0,3 m/ns) ~3ns later!
So any EMF induced in the secondary is decoupled from the primary power, and that 'reflected BackEMF WAVE' can be harvested back in the primary.

Is it not?

So in theory a radio emitter/receiver which is basically a loosely coupled air core transformer can be OU at condition the receiver is at 1/4 wave from the emitter.
Natural over-unity !? This concept could be applied to any frequencies and radio wave man made or natural !?
So first, a coil emit a wave then the receiver absorb that wave and produce a "back wave" 180° opposed (as per Lenz Law explain). Before that "back wave" cut the emitter coil, the power is stopped or polarity reversed (to recharge source with that back wave). Then you have OU...

I speak about that because I 've put in the download section some scientific Chinese paper that explain the possibility of such weird things.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 20, 2013, 12:56:14 PM
Thanks Schubert, i will read the papers.

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Doug1 on February 20, 2013, 06:18:48 PM
Schubert
A primer wave goes out but is reflected eventually. On it's return back it stacks up against more outbound waves and gains some power relative to the outbound wave. A transmission of information can be piggybacked onto this wave to increase distance of transmission with out adding extra power. Normal use is to filter out everything but the information. If a freaquency matching a wavelength of a steady nture not man made can be sent out the extra power can be drained off as a surplus. Cell phones use very unique patch antannas,very small. When you operate on made made frequencies they claim theft even though they except no resposibillty for trespass. You go round and round, hairpin ect..I even went as far as looking into pizzo transducers weapons grade to see if it could be used as a collector if tickled with RF. Mostly I see a lot of red tape. Good luck
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 20, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
OK, quite a few things to absorb there.

Hoptoad you said "the rise time of the generating coils is not the cause of the AUL".

You then said "It is specifically the ratio between the total combined resistance of the load and the coil itself, and the inductive reactance of the coil, that matters most."

Well, the rise time of the generator coil IS the ratio between the total resistance and the inductance ?
snip...

The rise time (of a loaded coil) is affected by the combined impedance of the inductive reactance and the circuit resistance.

Lets look at the two following scenarios (examples only, for the purpose of depicting the ratio difference).

CCt 1.  A) Coil and cct resistance = 5 ohm            B) Coil impedance (inductive reactance) at a given rpm =  2ohm
Total Impedance = square root of ((5*5)+(2*2)) = square root (29) = 5.385 ohms
Reactance less than resistance:        Result = DUL

CCt 2.  A) Coil and cct resistance = 2 ohm            B) Coil impedance (inductive reactance) at a given rpm =  5ohm
Total Impedance = square root of ((2*2)+(5*5)) = square root (29) = 5.385 ohms
Reactance greater than resistance:         Result = AUL

Same total impedance, with same effective rise time, but different ratio between inductive reactance & total circuit resistance.
The voltage rise time and the current phase shift are two different phenomena, though both are affected by impedance.
Rise time is affected by total impedance, while phase shift is affected by the ratio of resistance and reactance which forms the total impedance.

Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 20, 2013, 11:04:57 PM
Thanks HT. You have added to my meagre knowledge ;+}

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 20, 2013, 11:07:22 PM
Thanks HT. You have added to my meagre knowledge ;+}

DC.

Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Newton II on February 22, 2013, 03:29:58 PM

Take a look at this video from MrAnguswangus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=653JgoBT1Uc)

Magnetic flux can travel through only certain  distance of length through any magnetic material.   That is the reason why magnetic material like iron or steel is used as magnetic shielding materials since they absorb the flux and limit their distance of flow (length wise).   If you use a very lengthy core,  the magnetic flux of the rotory magnet will be absorbed at the beginning of the core itself and this flux will not reach the coil at all.     In that case  you have to use very strong magnets to pump the flux through out the core.   For that you have to use very huge magnets. ( in the above said video the experimenter has used set of huge magnets).   For rotating huge magnets  you have to supply more input power to the motor.   With all that even if the generator produces acceleration under load the power out put cannot be more than the power input.

In any of the generators showing AUL,  can out put of the generator be fed back to the motor making the unit  perpetual ?   If not what is the use of AUL?

Have a look at this wiki page :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perepiteia

As per this wiki page critics say that acceleration under load may indicate only higher effeiency or it is attained at the expense of torque.  Which means when rotor accelerates it loses its torque and there will not be any considerable gain in output.

Is there any relationship between torque and speed characteristics of a motor?   Can somebody expalin things correctly?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: vineet_kiran on February 23, 2013, 01:22:17 AM

Is there any relationship between torque and speed characteristics of a motor?   Can somebody expalin things correctly?

There is definitely relationship between torque and speed of a motor.   Torque is inversely proportional to the speed of the motor shaft.

Here is the copy of  personal message which I had sent to  Deepcut  since I felt  that he is very much interested in this experiment.   I don't claim that what I  have written is 100% correct but still it can throw some light on the subject.

Quote :

I saw few videos showing 'acceleration  under load'  effect in which they are using one DC motor, one generator with
some  adjustments in coil or core.    This  generator  gains  speed  of about 200 to 300 RPM when connected to load.   I
don't  think  this is of  any practical  use because  the  out put of the generator will still be lesser than the input to the
motor.   If you feed the output of generator back to the motor,  the system will not become perpetual.

As for my knowledge goes there are two types of DC motors.   One is torque motor and the other is speed motor.

In a torque motor  the  stator magnets  will  be of lesser  strength  inorder  to limit the back emf in the rotor winding.
This motor develops high torque with less speed.

In a speed motor the stator  magnets will be very  strong  which produces high speed of the rotor with lesser torque.
Even a small force is enough to stop this rotor.

In most of the videos demonstrating accelerating effect,   I  have observed  that they  have used torque motors.  This
raises  (accelerates)  the speed of  rotor  under load to a  small  extent  about 200  to 300 RPM because torque motors
are not designed to run at higher speeds.

I conducted  this experiment using a  speed motor.    For this,  I  had to  remove  the  existing  weak  magnet from the
DC  motor  and replace   it  with strong,  thick  magnets  without enclosure.  Once you convert torque motor to speed
motor,  it cannot run under high torque.   So  it cannot withstand lenz's forces produced in the generator under load.
To compensate  this,  I  reduced  the  gap  between  the  cores  so  that  the  strength  of  the  output current from the
generator goes down thereby reducing the lenz's forces.

Then I  coupled  the speed motor with generator having minimum gap between successive cores.    I raised the speed
of  motor to a critical speed by using power from a DC source.   When I shorted the output terminals of the generator,
the generator  rotor  developed  tremendous  speed  with  huge noise causing vibration of the entire setup and to an
extent it vibrated the table also.      The  difference  beween  noload  speed  and speed under load was few thousand
RPMs.

If you use   a  larger diameter   rotor in generator,  it  developes  a very  strong  torque at center with very high speed.
This  entire  setup  of  motor  and  generator  can be  used as a  single  motor  unit and  torque output from this motor
unit has to be coupled with standard, conventional generator to get standard AC / DC power output.

Incase  if  you  don't get  sufficient  torque  output  in  one  unit,   you may have to use several such units with torque
from preivious  one  coupled  to  successive  one  with  slightly  widened  gap  between  the  cores  and  you  have to
feed the torque output from the last unit to a standard generator.

The final  usable   power  output  has  to  be  got  from a standard  generator only.    Any modification of the standard
generator  will  not  produce  the required   strong power output.     These  standard  generators  have  evolved  from
decades of research work and they donot have any drawbacks.

It is all not that easy as Mr.Thane Heins thinks.   I don't think that his bicycle will ever run!

I  had  posted  this  experiment  in OU.com  under  following link.   In  that I  have  not  mentioned  that  I  have  used
a speed motor.

http://www.overunity.com/10774/over-unity-by-reaction-helping-action/msg287484/#msg287484 (http://www.overunity.com/10774/over-unity-by-reaction-helping-action/msg287484/#msg287484)

Sorry for my clumsy english.   I hope you will understand what I have written.     Waiting for reply.

Regards,

Vineet.K.
Unquote
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 23, 2013, 02:23:50 PM
I'll tell you what use i think AUL will be, when i get there (if i get there!).

Say our rotor does 2000 RPM for 10 watts of power when there is no AUL coil assembly present, just a rotor with no coils/cores.

Then we present our shorted coil assembly to the rotor, the rotor does 2,100 RPM and draws 9 watts.

That is what i am aiming for, a coil that accelerates the rotor beyond its no-coil speed.

The last coil i tried weighed 2 pounds, had an inductance of over 10 Henries and a resistance of a couple of hundred ohms, it's time constant was around 28ms.

When i presented this coil to the rotor the speed dropped by5 hertz and the input current rose by only 5mA.

My point is, each time i use a better coil (high inductance/low resistance) the results are getting better and better, i can only assume that a 3lb coil will extend the performance graph in the direction it's been going : up :)

Obviously there's lots i don't know, i'm not trained in nor do i have any expertise in things electric/electronic, so i can only go on what i see in my hands.

Also, the AUL effect doesn't break any laws of physics, if we believe Thane's model it uses the CEMF, so you are using the 'equal and opposite reaction', not negating it.

I am extending my DC motor-driven version to allow for longer coils (200mm) :

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/side_zps3fe5faeb.png (http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/side_zps3fe5faeb.png))

The thing is only half-built at the moment as i am awaiting more parts, the wooden base will be replaced by acrylic, the plastic coil-former barrel is on the right, it is 200mm long :

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/AULtwinrotor_zps1eb4cc07.jpg) (http://s1235.beta.photobucket.com/user/deepcut71/media/Energy%20Experiments/AULtwinrotor_zps1eb4cc07.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8)

12 magnets and 6 coils :

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/planview_zps45f39ebd.png (http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/planview_zps45f39ebd.png))

Cheers,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Newton II on February 23, 2013, 04:37:46 PM

@Vineet.K.

You are first converting torque motor to a speed motor.  Then you are reducing the gap between the cores of a standard generator to reduce lenz's forces.  Then you  are suggesting to use a bigger diameter rotor to get mechanical advantage from weak lenz's forces.   Obviously this cannot produce reuired torque output for overunity in one stage.   So you have to do it in several stages each time slightly widening the gap between the cores of  respective generator to get stronger lenz's forces hence stronger torque.

Think that you will get required torque output for overunity after ten such stages then what would be the total length and total weight of the entire set?   What would be its total cost?

Suppose Mr.Thane Heins connetcs this entire  motor - generators  set to his bicycle,  he has to provide one separate lorry to carry this motor - generator set .  Is it not?

@Deepcut,

Quote :

Say our rotor does 2000 RPM for 10 watts of power when there is no AUL coil assembly present, just a rotor with no coils/cores.

Then we present our shorted coil assembly to the rotor, the rotor does 2,100 RPM and draws 9 watts.

End of quote

I don't think it is the correct test for overunity.    May be you are trying to make a energy effiecient device.   A tungston bulb consuming 40 watts gives lesser light than set of LED bulbs consuming just 15 watts.  But this doesnot prove any overunity.

I want to see a motor-generator set in which power generated in the generator is fed back to the motor and this set runs on its own without consuming energy from any external source.   Can anybody show such a device?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: vineet_kiran on February 23, 2013, 06:16:03 PM

@Vineet.K.

You are first converting torque motor to a speed motor.  Then you are reducing the gap between the cores of a standard generator to reduce lenz's forces.  Then you  are suggesting to use a bigger diameter rotor to get mechanical advantage from weak lenz's forces.   Obviously this cannot produce reuired torque output for overunity in one stage.   So you have to do it in several stages each time slightly widening the gap between the cores of  respective generator to get stronger lenz's forces hence stronger torque.

Think that you will get required torque output for overunity after ten such stages then what would be the total length and total weight of the entire set?   What would be its total cost?

Suppose Mr.Thane Heins connetcs this entire  motor - generators  set to his bicycle,  he has to provide one separate lorry to carry this motor - generator set .  Is it not?

You are absolutely right.    Achieving  overunity  is not so easy.   Atleast as for my knowledge it has to be done in stages.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 23, 2013, 06:47:08 PM
If you have a coil that adds to the rotor speed and subtracts from the input current, compared to the rotor running free, then you have OU if many coils are used.

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on February 24, 2013, 12:07:13 AM
If you have a coil that adds to the rotor speed and subtracts from the input current, compared to the rotor running free, then you have OU if many coils are used.

DC.

Not so simple. Multiple coils split the output along with the Lenz delay effect.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 24, 2013, 02:00:35 AM
OK well i haven't gone beyond single-coil testing so i hear you :)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 24, 2013, 02:02:22 AM
Just wquickly thinking (whikle drunk) multiple coils connected share properties, but what if the shorted overspeed coil is used to offset a pure gen coil ?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 24, 2013, 02:02:45 AM
That's a shit thought, must not post when drubnk :)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 24, 2013, 02:03:55 AM
Thane's way was the hybrid coil, thick diameter but many, many turns. I calculated his coils on the multi-magnet rorotr AUL device weighed nine pounds.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Newton II on February 24, 2013, 04:03:12 PM
Thane's way was the hybrid coil, thick diameter but many, many turns. I calculated his coils on the multi-magnet rorotr AUL device weighed nine pounds.

What happenned to Thane Heins?  What happenned to his 7000% efficiency transformer?  Is it available in the market?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 24, 2013, 04:55:32 PM

What happenned to Thane Heins?  What happenned to his 7000% efficiency transformer?  Is it available in the market?

Naudin recently confirmed the BITT as an OU device.

Heins is working with an electric vehicle company to install his regenx technology in their cars and bikes.

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: MileHigh on February 24, 2013, 07:21:04 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Thane Heins is gone for good.  I just did some searching and I can't find anything new on the web.  He pulled his YouTube account so a lot of online articles link to dead videos now.

My pet theory is that when he linked up with that electric motorcycle company last year the field testing failed.  All of Thane's claims about extended range for the electric motorcycle did not come true with real world testing.  Perhaps it was the first time he had a chance to really test his alleged system with a real partner that had a real electric vehicle.  So perhaps Thane imploded after that.  After about a year there should have been some positive news coming out of that venture and there has been none.

The roots behind my sneaking suspicion go back to a few years ago when Poynt99 and myself and others debated with Thane about one of his clips showing a strangely wired transformer setup.  To my great surprise Thane was not demonstrating a mastery of the basic concepts about magnetic flux and magnetic circuits in relation to his setup.  It was a shocker.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 24, 2013, 10:36:27 PM
snip...
That is what i am aiming for, a coil that accelerates the rotor beyond its no-coil speed.
snip...
I wish you the best of luck with that.
Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Fred Flintstone on February 24, 2013, 11:46:16 PM

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: majkl on February 25, 2013, 12:30:33 AM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Thane Heins is gone for good.  I just did some searching and I can't find anything new on the web.  He pulled his YouTube account so a lot of online articles link to dead videos now.
...
MileHigh

Hi!
No, he is still active - see his new YT channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/PDiCanada1/
On SlideShare: http://www.slideshare.net/ThaneCHeins/

The Heins Effect (the Delayed Lenz Effect) confirmed:
http://www.magistrala.cz/freeenergy/category/tv/channel/jean-louis-naudin/
http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/indexen.htm

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 25, 2013, 12:16:53 PM
I don't think you looked very hard MH.

He has a new youtube channel and is still working with the EV guy.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Thane Heins is gone for good.  I just did some searching and I can't find anything new on the web.  He pulled his YouTube account so a lot of online articles link to dead videos now.

My pet theory is that when he linked up with that electric motorcycle company last year the field testing failed.  All of Thane's claims about extended range for the electric motorcycle did not come true with real world testing.  Perhaps it was the first time he had a chance to really test his alleged system with a real partner that had a real electric vehicle.  So perhaps Thane imploded after that.  After about a year there should have been some positive news coming out of that venture and there has been none.

The roots behind my sneaking suspicion go back to a few years ago when Poynt99 and myself and others debated with Thane about one of his clips showing a strangely wired transformer setup.  To my great surprise Thane was not demonstrating a mastery of the basic concepts about magnetic flux and magnetic circuits in relation to his setup.  It was a shocker.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: MileHigh on February 25, 2013, 06:39:29 PM
I stand corrected about Thane Heins going off of YouTube.  But at this point my assumption is still that the deal he worked out with the electric motorcycle company is dead because his alleged technology did not prove itself to be valid when they did field trials.  It would seem to be the logical reason that the videos and the YouTube channel was pulled.  By the same token, the development cycle for something like this could easily take two years or more so who knows.

The "delayed Lenz effect" is another issue that I think is misunderstood by many experimenters.  Seeing a rotor speed up when you short a pick-up coil or whatever is not necessarily confirming that there is some kind of effect related to Lenz' Law or some kind of excess energy effect.  Also, I believe that J.L. Naudin has a history of doing experiments and then retracting his conclusions after the fact when more data becomes available.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 26, 2013, 11:38:33 PM
I stand corrected about Thane Heins going off of YouTube.  But at this point my assumption is still that the deal he worked out with the electric motorcycle company is dead because his alleged technology did not prove itself to be valid when they did field trials.  It would seem to be the logical reason that the videos and the YouTube channel was pulled.  By the same token, the development cycle for something like this could easily take two years or more so who knows.

The "delayed Lenz effect" is another issue that I think is misunderstood by many experimenters.  Seeing a rotor speed up when you short a pick-up coil or whatever is not necessarily confirming that there is some kind of effect related to Lenz' Law or some kind of excess energy effect.  Also, I believe that J.L. Naudin has a history of doing experiments and then retracting his conclusions after the fact when more data becomes available.

MileHigh

Looking at a couple of Thane's latest videos, he's just going around in circles like his rotors. One video he posted just over 2 weeks ago is the same experiment performed by him over 4 years ago. Thane never shows a baseline for driving his rotors, that is, he never shows the rotor speed and power consumption to drive the rotor when there are no cores/coils present at all.

If he did, his whole circus would come to a screeching halt, because it would show that the rotor goes faster and the driving motor uses less current when there are no cores/coils present at all.

Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Magluvin on February 27, 2013, 12:23:55 AM
Looking at a couple of Thane's latest videos, he's just going around in circles like his rotors. One video he posted just over 2 weeks ago is the same experiment performed by him over 4 years ago. Thane never shows a baseline for driving his rotors, that is, he never shows the rotor speed and power consumption to drive the rotor when there are no cores/coils present at all.

If he did, his whole circus would come to a screeching halt, because it would show that the rotor goes faster and the driving motor uses less current when there are no cores/coils present at all.

Cheers

I agree. And I think i said close to the same earlier. ;]

Another thing is, what causes the speedup? Is it that the freq of the rotor is at a point where the pulses of the rotor exceed a freq that cant pass through the coil as well as lower freq? cutoff freq. And if so, does that mean that the output is less at this time also? If so, there is no gain here.

But, if the coil is resonant at these freq 'and' near cutoff freq of the coil, then there may be delay and an upward climb in output in this range. Like as I perceive  Romero's motor accomplished.

Mags
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 27, 2013, 01:22:33 AM
Looking at a couple of Thane's latest videos, he's just going around in circles like his rotors. One video he posted just over 2 weeks ago is the same experiment performed by him over 4 years ago. Thane never shows a baseline for driving his rotors, that is, he never shows the rotor speed and power consumption to drive the rotor when there are no cores/coils present at all.

If he did, his whole circus would come to a screeching halt, because it would show that the rotor goes faster and the driving motor uses less current when there are no cores/coils present at all.

Cheers

Yes that baseline test is the one i would like to see, i'm chasing it as you know and i hope it's not my tail ;+}

I think there is something else at play not just the rise time, there is odd behaviour at times.

If it were just the risetime then pushing the frequency would result in AUL bands and DUL bands ?

Also one thing these coils do, at certain frequencies, if you unshort them the rotor stays at the accelerated speed, what is happening there do you think ?

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on February 27, 2013, 01:48:12 AM
I wound a thread spool with a bifilar wrap, series wired, and powered a 1/2" diametric tube magnet on 1/4" ceramic bearings. The coil was wired in series to a Reed switch and a 12 volt 6 amp hour Radio Shack battery and an amp meter. I Laser tached the reflective tape marked magnet spinner. At 25k, a burst of speed developed that practically doubled the r.p.m's while the amp draw dropped to zero. I called this effect Lenz propulsion, and developed a theory. No output coil was present. What's this say about a baseline?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 27, 2013, 02:22:49 AM
I wound a thread spool with a bifilar wrap, series wired, and powered a 1/2" diametric tube magnet on 1/4" ceramic bearings. The coil was wired in series to a Reed switch and a 12 volt 6 amp hour Radio Shack battery and an amp meter. I Laser tached the reflective tape marked magnet spinner. At 25k, a burst of speed developed that practically doubled the r.p.m's while the amp draw dropped to zero. I called this effect Lenz propulsion, and developed a theory. No output coil was present. What's this say about a baseline?

@ Synchro : at 25k rpm, the comparison between your setup and thanes is like comparing a rocket (yours) with a cessna airplane (Thanes). But that aside, your result is fascinating to say the least. However, it is possible that at that level of rpm, the rotor induced back emf into the drive coil may be causing a current phase shift within the drive coil (or interfering with the drive current) which in turn is masking (negating) the magnetic drag of the coil's core (assuming it has one!), thus allowing a marked increase in rpm, and decrease in drive current - but I must admit, I really don't know.

@ Deepcut - Continued high speed after unshorting the coil - that's another fascinating observation to which I also do not know the answer.

The best thing about your postings (DC) and Synchro - is that for the first time in a long time, I actually don't have a clue as to the cause of your results. I like mysteries in need of solving.

Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on February 27, 2013, 02:32:22 AM

That's a good one, perhaps the best. Another is skipping, and a third, the coil's pole shift lags. I really have no idea either. Pirate Twinbeard has his own unique explanation as well.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: vineet_kiran on February 27, 2013, 03:51:43 AM

and a third, the coil's pole shift lags.

That should be  the main reason for this effect. Another is the speed characterics of motor which  depends on back emf  which in turn depends on the strength of the stator magnets.  I  think at last this research work has come on a right track after 38 pages of misguiding information.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 27, 2013, 04:21:35 AM
snip...
Another thing is, what causes the speedup?
snip..

You may find this explanation satisfactory (written in 2007) ...... then again you may not ! ..... LOL

Go to Page 11 for an explanation of the speed up under load effect (AUL).

Cheers

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on February 27, 2013, 05:59:50 AM
You may find this explanation satisfactory (written in 2007) ...... then again you may not ! ..... LOL

Go to Page 11 for an explanation of the speed up under load effect (AUL).

Cheers

Since you are the author of this blog, i'm sure you have explored the AUL effect more than us Here,
Is there a posibility of overunity with this effect?

Regards
Cc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 27, 2013, 07:36:22 AM

Since you are the author of this blog, i'm sure you have explored the AUL effect more than us Here,
Is there a posibility of overunity with this effect?

Regards
Cc

Possibility - I'd like to think it may be possible ......  Probability ? That's another prospect altogether.

I'm sad to say that all my research thus far has yielded a zero result. Based only on my own personal experience, I'd say the probability in favour of OU is negligible to almost nil. - But still possible (maybe) LOL

Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on February 27, 2013, 12:01:48 PM
Possibility - I'd like to think it may be possible ......  Probability ? That's another prospect altogether.

I'm sad to say that all my research thus far has yielded a zero result. Based only on my own personal experience, I'd say the probability in favour of OU is negligible to almost nil. - But still possible (maybe) LOL

Cheers

Thank you for the quick reply, it sounds like you have given up on this?  ;)

Regards
Cc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 27, 2013, 01:54:59 PM
You may find this explanation satisfactory (written in 2007) ...... then again you may not ! ..... LOL

Go to Page 11 for an explanation of the speed up under load effect (AUL).

Cheers

Toad that is really funny, because it was the Adams and Muller devices that brought me to your article and got me started on all this, you may remember my emails before i realised you were on OU.com ;+}

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 27, 2013, 02:32:43 PM
One thing i've been pondering.

The 2LB coil i wound (bifilar/series), when shorted and presented to the rotor caused the following changes to frequency and input current :

Frequency : Dropped from 486Hz to 482Hz (0.8% drop)
Input Current : Rose from 410mA to 413mA (0.73% rise)

This coil was producing 4.2 watts of power (measured by DMM and analogue meter) to an incandescent bulb load  and caused very small changes to rotor speed and input current.

Presumably two such coils would cause around a 2% drop in RPM and a 2% rise in current draw and give us a little less than double that figure of 4.2 watts, lets be conservative and say that two coils output 8 watts of power or even 7.5.

The input to the rotor started at 18VDC @ 410mA = 7.38 watts.

Still waiting on my perspex parts, they should have arrived by now.

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: hoptoad on February 27, 2013, 09:33:06 PM
Thank you for the quick reply, it sounds like you have given up on this?  ;)
Regards
Cc

I've given up personally trying to achieve O/U with these sorts of motor circuits, but I still like to see what others are up to.
The research by others has still been enlightening. Sometimes for what is discovered and sometimes for what is disproved.
Cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on February 28, 2013, 03:45:24 PM
Hi synchro1,

If I got you correctly, you rotated a diametrically magnetized cylinder magnet (fixed axially on ceramic bearings) by a bifilarly wound coil. And a reed switch connected in series with the coil insured the correct pole should appear to the coming magnet pole and here I assume a simple attract mode?

This is very interesting because even if you had no output coil, the mass of the rotor magnet obviously needed work to maintain the 25k rpm while you noticed the current draw dropped to zero.  I wonder if you can repeat this test any time or it was a single phenomena?  IS it ok to consider a zero current draw indeed or it went down to the some mA range versus the some ten or hundred mA draw while speeding up?

Thanks,  Gyula

I wound a thread spool with a bifilar wrap, series wired, and powered a 1/2" diametric tube magnet on 1/4" ceramic bearings. The coil was wired in series to a Reed switch and a 12 volt 6 amp hour Radio Shack battery and an amp meter. I Laser tached the reflective tape marked magnet spinner. At 25k, a burst of speed developed that practically doubled the r.p.m's while the amp draw dropped to zero. I called this effect Lenz propulsion, and developed a theory. No output coil was present. What's this say about a baseline?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on February 28, 2013, 04:00:43 PM
I wound a thread spool with a bifilar wrap, series wired, and powered a 1/2" diametric tube magnet on 1/4" ceramic bearings. The coil was wired in series to a Reed switch and a 12 volt 6 amp hour Radio Shack battery and an amp meter. I Laser tached the reflective tape marked magnet spinner. At 25k, a burst of speed developed that practically doubled the r.p.m's while the amp draw dropped to zero. I called this effect Lenz propulsion, and developed a theory. No output coil was present. What's this say about a baseline?

Hi synchro1,

thanks for posting your interesting result. Could you post a video to show the burst effect. Also a picture of your setup would be helpful.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on February 28, 2013, 04:07:32 PM
These are pictures of perhaps the World's first Internaly Motorized Alternator, minus the output wrap.

Left to right:

1- View of the 3/4 inch spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC core.
2- Miniature 1/4 O.D. , 1/8 I.D. all ceramic bearing on top of a Radio Shack 12 volt 6 amp hour battery.
3- Position of the 12 volt Reed Switch on the Hi Voltage Spool Coil. Pins should point away from the magnet..
4- Top secured for runing with coil seated down partly inside the output core.
5- The six main componants: Power coil on core, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch and 3/8" diametric tube magnet.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on February 28, 2013, 04:10:57 PM
One thing i've been pondering.

The 2LB coil i wound (bifilar/series), when shorted and presented to the rotor caused the following changes to frequency and input current :

Frequency : Dropped from 486Hz to 482Hz (0.8% drop)
Input Current : Rose from 410mA to 413mA (0.73% rise)

This coil was producing 4.2 watts of power (measured by DMM and analogue meter) to an incandescent bulb load  and caused very small changes to rotor speed and input current.

Presumably two such coils would cause around a 2% drop in RPM and a 2% rise in current draw and give us a little less than double that figure of 4.2 watts, lets be conservative and say that two coils output 8 watts of power or even 7.5.

The input to the rotor started at 18VDC @ 410mA = 7.38 watts.

Still waiting on my perspex parts, they should have arrived by now.

Cheers,

DC.

Hi DC,

good experiments you have going.
One thing I noticed is, the lower the resistance (load) on the shorted coil the less effect it has on the prime mover. You mentioned you have a bulb as load. That may go up to 10 ohms or more when lit. Try a 30 watt 1 ohm resistor instead. The coil may now have zero effect on the prime mover.
Let us know how that worked or if I have misunderstood your test.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on February 28, 2013, 04:17:54 PM
These are pictures of perhaps the World's first Internaly Motorized Alternator, minus the output wrap.

Left to right:

1- View of the 3/4 inch spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC core.
2- Miniature 1/4 O.D. , 1/8 I.D. all ceramic bearing on top of a Radio Shack 12 volt 6 amp hour battery.
3- Position of the 12 volt Reed Switch on the Hi Voltage Spool Coil. Pins should point away from the magnet..
4- Top secured for runing with coil seated down partly inside the output core.
5- The six main componants: Power coil on core, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch

WOW, that was fast!... thanks for the pictures synchro1 ;)

Could you do a video demo?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

ADDED: just noticed you added other pictures, thanks that helps. I'm interested as to what the CD's are used for.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on February 28, 2013, 04:27:13 PM
The pictures are out of order, but the descriptions identify them. The key element to this unit is the precision ceramic bearing from Bocas. I only use one in the center.

The coil pole of the bifilar is determined by the magnet pole facing it.

I'm in Costa Rica now away from the shop. Try reading from this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-25.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-25.html)

@Gotoluc,

The C.D.'s just hold the coil in position over the magnet spinner. The r.p.m.'s are way over the switching speed for the Radio Shack reed switch. You have to manipulate the coil by moving it up, down and around to stay on the sweet spot!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on February 28, 2013, 04:36:59 PM
The pictures are out of order, but the descriptions identify them. The key element to this unit is the precision ceramic bearing from Bocas. I only use one in the center.

The coil pole of the bifilar is determined by the magnet pole facing it.

I'm in Costa Rica now away from the shop. Try reading from this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-25.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-25.html)

Okay synchro1 thanks. Costa Rica is a beautiful place!

I'll read up on the topic.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

@Gotoluc,
The C.D.'s just hold the coil in position over the magnet spinner. The r.p.m.'s are way over the switching speed for the Radio Shack reed switch. You have to manipulate the coil by moving it up, down and around to stay on the sweet spot!

Thanks for adding that. I was also wondering how the reed switch can handle that kind of speed.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 28, 2013, 04:53:01 PM
Hi DC,

good experiments you have going.
One thing I noticed is, the lower the resistance (load) on the shorted coil the less effect it has on the prime mover. You mentioned you have a bulb as load. That may go up to 10 ohms or more when lit. Try a 30 watt 1 ohm resistor instead. The coil may now have zero effect on the prime mover.
Let us know how that worked or if I have misunderstood your test.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Hi Luc,

looking forward to when you have a lab up and running again :)

Your suggestion is good and would probably work, but i am working toward a coil that can cope with a wide range of loads, not just getting it to overspeed the rotor.

Cheers,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on February 28, 2013, 05:15:25 PM
Hi Luc,

looking forward to when you have a lab up and running again :)

Your suggestion is good and would probably work, but i am working toward a coil that can cope with a wide range of loads, not just getting it to overspeed the rotor.

Cheers,

DC.

Keep us updated of your findings.  My research shows that as resistance increases the positive effect decreases. Would love to see the opposite ;D

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 28, 2013, 05:55:33 PM

Keep us updated of your findings.  My research shows that as resistance increases the positive effect decreases. Would love to see the opposite ;D

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Yes exactly, it's all in the time-constant of the coil, so the higher the resistance, the less retarded the TC is.

That's why i am aiming for a high TC of around 100ms.

Aside from the TC, as you know it's also the frequency you drive the coils at.

I've driven them from 200 to 500 Hertz and the effect just gets better, the stronger the CEMF, the stronger the effect.

One important point to note is that there is no cycle from acceleration-under-load to deceleration-under-load as the frequency is driven higher.

This is a very important point as it implies the effect is not solely due to CEMF peaking at just the right time, when the magnet is just at the right position.

The effect is happening regardless of magnet position at rise-time.

I've made a spreadsheet with it all there, the properties of the rotor and magnets as well as the mechanical maths to see how far a magnet would have travelled in x amount of TC units, anyone can use it for any rotor :

http://www.mediafire.com/?bjlt2njkf3n69tr (http://www.mediafire.com/?bjlt2njkf3n69tr)

Some of my perspex has arrived, i can't begin testing until my coil plates arrive tho. Hopefully this weekend.

All the best,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Floor on February 28, 2013, 07:53:35 PM
First.
This is the first time I have logged into O.U.,  I am trying to get attention upon a new electropermanentmagnet motor /generator
design, and I  would very much like for you gentlemen to take a Quick look at the brief attached PDFs. I have filed a provisional patent in the U.S.. I want this design in the public domain !!!  If you think the design has merit, Please ! copy, publish, build, experiment with, use, or sell
the design, as far and wide as you can, and as quickly as you can. I think that it is possible that this innovation could push a conventional high efficiency  DC motor / generator over unity.  I
It is beyond my capacity to get the design out to very many people. I lack both the means and the technical skills to so.

Thank you for your time and consideration

Floor

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on February 28, 2013, 08:34:23 PM
Hello Floor and welcome :)

I can't understand why the device may be OU, could you provide us with a description of what you think is going on, what is the main concept ?

Thanks,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Floor on March 01, 2013, 03:56:43 AM
A permanent magnet only motor would be a simple thing to design, if there were a way to rapidly turn permanent magnets on and off, without expending a lot of energy to do so. Electro permanent magnets are sometimes used in lifting cranes, now that we have very powerful "rare earth" magnets.  In these lifting cranes, an electromagnet is used in a magnetic polarity opposite to the permanent magnet, to neutralize the permanent magnet, (in effect, "turning the permanent magnet off"). This prevents the dropping of a pay load in the event of a power failure, and requires power only to release the payload. This however would use too much power to be effective in an electric motor.

Similarly, an electromagnet can be combined with a permanent magnet to create a magnetic field which is stronger than either the electromagnet or the permanent magnet alone. The combination results in an electromagnet which has a magnetic field that is greater than the wattage input alone can produce.

In the design presented, by proximity, (the distance from the other component / elements),  the electro permanent magnets (E P M's)
are in effect"turned off" until the electromagnet elements are energized. When the electromagnet elements are energized, their magnetic
fields will have a percentage of the permanent magnets, magnetic fields added to them.

If a conventional all electromagnet, DC motor or generator of a design, that was of say 91% efficiency, had also this type of E P M integrated into it's design, it would be O U if the E P M's  can contribute 10% to the efficiency. Can they?

Floor

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 01, 2013, 11:00:10 AM
OK that's made it clearer, thanks. I like the sound of it.

Have you built a prototype ?

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 01, 2013, 04:41:33 PM
@Floor,

Art Porter's Magnetic Amplification and Neutralization Generator does exactly that:

http://www.gap-power.com/ (http://www.gap-power.com/)
Title: Delayed Lenz Effect R.PM. threshold.
Post by: synchro1 on March 01, 2013, 04:54:25 PM
JLN'S new Lenz Delay replication experiment starts with 18 N-S stator magnets at 600 Hz. 18 times 600 equals 10,500. The diametric magnet stator Lenz delay threshold speed of around 25k divided by two yields approxametly the same amount! Those are the pole shifts the coil makes per second. At that speed, the magnet stator simply begins moving a tiny bit faster then the coil's pole shift rate and gets a push, with or without an output coil.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE08en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE08en.htm)
Title: Re: Delayed Lenz Effect R.PM. threshold.
Post by: DeepCut on March 01, 2013, 05:09:05 PM
JLN'S new Lenz Delay replication experiment starts with 18 N-S stator magnets at 600 Hz. 18 times 600 equals 10,500. The diametric magnet stator Lenz delay threshold speed of around 25k divided by two yields approxametly the same amount! Those are the pole shifts the coil makes per second. At that speed, the magnet stator simply begins moving a tiny bit faster then the coil's pole shift rate and gets a push, with or without an output coil.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE08en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE08en.htm)

Thanks for that synch, it's good to see Naudin taking this up :)

DC.
Title: Re: Delayed Lenz Effect R.PM. threshold.
Post by: gyulasun on March 01, 2013, 11:42:22 PM
Hi synchro1,

Thanks for the pictures and the link to the energetic forum, I read through it again. Unfortunately you had camera problems and my questions remained unanswered and albeit later you made even some videos, actual measurements did not turn out and later the thread went down on the topic and abandoned...

Would you mind telling when you find the current goes to zero Amps, how much current is still flowing, really zero or there is a few milliAmpers flowing which needed to maintain the +15k rpm?  After the many tests you did in that era what is your present understanding on the phenomena:  any chance to go higher than 1 in COP?  Do you need technical help perhaps?

Regarding Naudin's tests you mention below,  he has showed detailed input power measurements which is very good indeed but miraculously this time he did not show the corresponding output voltage and current values... ( http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE10en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE10en.htm) )
IT is ok that he confirms the regeneration effect but from his demo it is not clear whether there is any benefit from it COP wise? Afterall, this is what we are interested in, are we not?

rgds,  Gyula

JLN'S new Lenz Delay replication experiment starts with 18 N-S stator magnets at 600 Hz. 18 times 600 equals 10,500. The diametric magnet stator Lenz delay threshold speed of around 25k divided by two yields approxametly the same amount! Those are the pole shifts the coil makes per second. At that speed, the magnet stator simply begins moving a tiny bit faster then the coil's pole shift rate and gets a push, with or without an output coil.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE08en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE08en.htm)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 02, 2013, 12:23:07 AM
@Gyulasum,

I tried to self loop the gizmo and blew up a cap. I discovered that a seperate bifilar series wrapped pick up coil with two coupled diametric magnets back to back in the air core of a plastic Radio Shack magnet wire spool with a 1/2" core did the trick. This magnet core output coil caused the 3/8" magnet rotor to speed up while held errect over the axled spinner. Self looped, it charged the run battery vigorously. Definitly way O.U. I've been over this lots on the Romero thread, but I know of no one who has as yet replicated the results. The Lenz delay effect threshold drops dramaticly with coupled diametric magnets snug in the output coil core. Don't forget to tape the holes closed or they'll wind up stuck to the stator magnet.

"THE OUTPUT COIL POLE SHIFTS HAVE TO FIGHT THE POWERFUL CORE FIELD."
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Floor on March 02, 2013, 03:34:01 AM
Yes so collection of back EMF will be absolutely necessary ?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 02, 2013, 04:07:33 AM
A large 4" diametric magnet spinner with perhaps eight magnet core output coils could attach to an A.C. induction moter at the axel. The motor could run the spinner up to threshold speed, then after the output coils began to power the spinner, a shunt could turn the motor into a powerful A.C. alternator. All the coils and the alternator could tie into the same rectifier, and maybe charge a large D.C. battery bank. This would generate kilowatts of free energy!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Newton II on March 02, 2013, 04:48:10 AM
A large 4" diametric magnet spinner with perhaps eight magnet core output coils could attach to an A.C. induction moter at the axel. The motor could run the spinner up to threshold speed, then after the output coils began to power the spinner, a shunt could turn the motor into a powerful A.C. alternator. All the coils and the alternator could tie into the same rectifier, and maybe charge a large D.C. battery bank. This would generate kilowatts of free energy!

When you convert the motor into powerful AC alternator,  it (alternator) will produce powerful lenz's forces which inturn will slowdown your spinner.  Even if your spinner rotates at 50k,  it will not have enough torque to overcome strong lenz's forces.   Eventually your spinner will stop.

Build the machine and see.   Then you will know the exact practical problems.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: vineet_kiran on March 02, 2013, 01:41:25 PM

A large 4" diametric magnet spinner with perhaps eight magnet core output coils ....

When you use a large diametric magnet,  you may get powerful torque at the center of the magnet.   But I don't think you will be able to achieve OU in single stage.  You may have to do it  in several stages.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 02, 2013, 03:32:53 PM

When you use a large diametric magnet,  you may get powerful torque at the center of the magnet.   But I don't think you will be able to achieve OU in single stage.  You may have to do it  in several stages.

The alternator acts as a torque converter, and governor, like balls on a steam engine and has a hydrolic clutch. The spinner R.P.M. is controled by charging the alternator windings, to best run it in resonance.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 02, 2013, 04:15:14 PM
Hi Synchro,

There is a patent that I thought was pretty clever, you might be able to try with your spinning magnet.

US8120225 - External split field generator

The patent shows how to use a spinning diametric or other magnet near the center of a coil to aid an already established flux path. I'm not sure how Lenz will effect the spinning magnet as it is 90 degrees to the coil and positioned at the coils bloch wall. Something to look into maybe.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on March 02, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
And they have the Internal split field generator as well:

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 02, 2013, 04:40:50 PM
And they have the Internal split field generator as well:

Gyula

I see your points. That's what caused me to replicate Leon Dragone's solid state generator. I made videos of it. Dragone patented the Magnet pump Generator. Two disk magnets on each end of a core winding. The field oscillation inside the magnet core output coil accounts for a good share of the abundant amperage. All the time, the slowed pole shift from very powerful magnet core field interference, motors the prime mover like a pulse coil. The power agitated by the spinner hepls drive the rotor magnet with greater force. Three great advantages in one!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: garrypm on March 02, 2013, 09:06:52 PM
Are not, both those patents, very close, if not, a direct description on Willis' comments on dragons den of his magnacoaster !!!!!

Garry
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 03, 2013, 04:09:20 PM
I built a Cook battery. I filled 8" of electrical conduit with 8 1/2" diamectric tube magnets and wraped it with first 1 layer of 32 gauge magnet wire, then one layer of household 16 gauge. This bifilar was then series wired Tesla style.. A capacitor and Schottky diode were wired in series. A spontaneous charge built in the capacitor untill it reached a ceiling level.

I held the cook battery up to a large rotating 3/4" diametric neo tube spinner, to see how the cap charged, and Lo and behold! The spinner took off like crazy and peaked the cap charge. I then simply scaled the Cook battery down to the 28 guage 2 magnet core design That went O.U.

I want to stress that theory followed results, not vica versa. As of now I can explain the effect in simple terms we have grown familiar with through the course of our intrest in the "Thane Hien's" effect. I think nearly all of us are prepared to fully understand what this is in Mandrian:

"Diametric magnet core bifilar output coil, PM field induced Lenz delay pole shift interferance lag retro-pulse propulsion" as a principle of electromagnetic physics both here and at home in China..
.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 03, 2013, 07:46:13 PM
How's this one?

"Linear Tesla output coil Lenz poleshift retarding permanent diametric magnet core, retro pulse propulsion overunity."

At first I thought the magnet coil generated current. I ended up understanding how "Entropy" was doubling back to re-emerge in it's mirror image as a power mover..

Speeding the rotor up to 25k goes past the threshold, but any output is too hgh in voltage to self loop. Dampening the pole shift with diametric magnet cores, brings the rotor speed down enough to charge a 12 volt run battery off a rectifier. Measured around 20 volts. The strong magnet cores kill the coil efficency off by a good 95%.! The output coil needs a load to generate Lenz delay propulsion. The rotor winds down when the output hot lead is disconnected from the run battery as a load!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: MileHigh on March 03, 2013, 10:40:39 PM
Synchro1:

Quote
That went O.U.

I am not sure if you have have discussed your setups and associated clips on the forum but it would be prudent to do so.  You make a couple of references t your setups giving you over unity without ever questioning the results or trying alternative measurements.  For example, I think that you mentioned that your current measurement went to zero when one of your rotors doubled its RPM.  Since you are talking about very high RPM speeds, it very possible that the AC current was too high in frequency for your meter to measure properly.  Therefore the meter showed zero current simply because it was unable to measure the signal.

Quote
Linear Tesla output coil Lenz poleshift retarding permanent diametric magnet core, retro pulse propulsion overunity.

I have a challenge for you.  Take your setup and assuming that you have an oscilloscope measure the all of the voltages and currents associated with your setup, both on the input side and the output side.  Take scope shots or even better construct a timing diagram on paper, and then explain the voltage and current waveforms and and the timing relationships between them and relate the measurements back to your setup.

For example, when you make a change to your setup the current consumption might drop and the RPM might increase.  So what is really happening here?  If you understand all of the voltages and currents in the setup before you make the change, and then go through the whole process of understanding the voltages and currents after you make the change, you should be able to figure out exactly why the rotor speeds up.

In other words, you need to make the leap from observing a change in your setup and theorizing the reason for the change, to actually making all of the measurements and actually explaining why the change happened.  It's not easy and it's hard work.  But at the end of the day you get the satisfaction of truly understanding what you are observing and being able to explain it to your peers.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 04, 2013, 01:05:08 AM
Synchro1:

I am not sure if you have have discussed your setups and associated clips on the forum but it would be prudent to do so.  You make a couple of references t your setups giving you over unity without ever questioning the results or trying alternative measurements.  For example, I think that you mentioned that your current measurement went to zero when one of your rotors doubled its RPM.  Since you are talking about very high RPM speeds, it very possible that the AC current was too high in frequency for your meter to measure properly.  Therefore the meter showed zero current simply because it was unable to measure the signal.

I have a challenge for you.  Take your setup and assuming that you have an oscilloscope measure the all of the voltages and currents associated with your setup, both on the input side and the output side.  Take scope shots or even better construct a timing diagram on paper, and then explain the voltage and current waveforms and and the timing relationships between them and relate the measurements back to your setup.

For example, when you make a change to your setup the current consumption might drop and the RPM might increase.  So what is really happening here?  If you understand all of the voltages and currents in the setup before you make the change, and then go through the whole process of understanding the voltages and currents after you make the change, you should be able to figure out exactly why the rotor speeds up.

In other words, you need to make the leap from observing a change in your setup and theorizing the reason for the change, to actually making all of the measurements and actually explaining why the change happened.  It's not easy and it's hard work.  But at the end of the day you get the satisfaction of truly understanding what you are observing and being able to explain it to your peers.

MileHigh

You sure cut a pile of work out for me. How about you trying it? I don't have access to that kind of equipment. It would help if JLN labs tried it for us. Maybe I'll email Jean Louis and ask him if he would subject a replication to strict standards of scientific scrutiny.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 04, 2013, 01:48:57 AM
@MileHigh,

I just finished emailing JLN a hyperlink to the thread. Jean Louis has been kind enough to reply to my email in the past. He's currently set up to run this kind of experiment. Maybe he can help Leapfrog this discovery to the forefront of cutting edge science where it belongs.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: MileHigh on March 04, 2013, 01:52:07 AM
Quote
You sure cut a pile of work out for me. How about you trying it?

I am just giving you some advice on how to get more out of what you are doing.  It's up to you if you want to understand your setups fully or not.

Sorry, I am not making any claims or doing any tests myself.  The old line that "you can't make any statements or comments unless you build yourself" is a false claim.  I have tons of bench experience and even made measurements on motors a long time ago.  So I am offering you my advice based on real-world experience.

For example, you state, "The output coil needs a load to generate Lenz delay propulsion."  If I understand what you are stating you mean that as the rotor magnet leaves the output coil, the output coil may push on the rotor to make it turn faster.  It may be true that there is a push from the output coil like you state.  The question that you are not asking yourself is where the push came from.  In all likelihood, the output coil does three things when the rotor magnet passes it.  1) It gets energy induced into it when the magnet is approaching.  This causes classic Lenz drag on the rotor and slows it down.  2)  The energy induced in the coil causes a push on the rotor when the magnet is moving away.  3)  Since the output coil is driving a load, by definition it is causing Lenz drag on the motor.  Then net result from all three components is a Lenz drag on the rotor.

I am just throwing some ideas at you for you to think about.  The real answer to these questions is to analyze the dynamics of your motor with your scope.  You put some current sensing resistors in different places and then measure the voltages and currents and relate that back to the angular displacement of the rotor and the magnets passing by the output coils.

I don't have the answers for you, I am just telling you what you should consider doing if you want to find the answers for yourself.  If you produced a timing diagram that tracked the rotor position, the supply voltages and currents, the output coil voltages and currents, etc, then you should be able to figure out for yourself if I am on the right track (or not) for the three output coil effects that I am talking about above.  Certainly there is no "magic push" from an output coil.  If the output coil gives a push to the rotor then the energy for that push has to come from somewhere.  A properly done timing diagram should reveal all of that to you if you know how to interpret the waveforms.

I just did a Google image search on "pulse motor timing diagram."  Try it yourself and you will see what I am talking about.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 05, 2013, 02:24:36 AM
@MilgHigh,

You try it! There is no Lenz drag, because the rotor has two poles, or n-s as in JLN'S 18 magnet alternator. The approaching magnet starts a pole shift in the bifilar. It's so slow, it's on the other side of TDC when it appears.

You have no right to say I'm wrong with no proof. Break down for the pocket change cost for a few magnets and prove me wrong. I'm telling it putt putt's the rotor!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 05, 2013, 02:45:47 AM
Enough parts have arrived for me to do some basic testing, once i have the coil wound.

While thinking about the device and the next coil test i have realised a HUGE flaw in my thinking :(

I was previously getting 600VAC for around 30KRPM with the single diametric magnet setup, obviously a fast spinner since it was light and powerful (0.6 Tesla).

With the new 12-magnet rotor, driven by a DC motor, although i will get the same frequency in the coil at a lower speed of 2KRPM, i will only get an output of 40VAC.

What a f***ing dickhead :( Can't believe i hadn't thought of that while designing and then ordering all these bits and pieces.

We live and learn ...

::sniff::

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: MileHigh on March 05, 2013, 03:04:16 AM
Synchro1:

I am making generic comments.  Are you referring to a specific setup of yours?  I looked back though several pages and I did not notice a link.

Thanks,

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 05, 2013, 03:20:03 PM
View of the 3/4 inch spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC core above. The coil is a Radio Shack green wire spool, wpapped bifilar with the same green wire. One coil wall has to be removed so the output coil can squeeze through the hole cut through the CD griping cap. This coil has the two snug 1/2" neo magnet core diametrics taped inside. The coil need's to be positioned after the main 3/8" rotor reaches Lenz threshold r.p.m. for the magnet core output coil which is much lower then the threshold for the spinner and the power coil alone. Remeber, the "output coil need the Lenz delayed kickback field to keep the coil core magnets from slowing the rotor down with magnetic drag! Also a load needs to be attached, just a capacitor and diode to get the delay propulsion.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: MileHigh on March 06, 2013, 04:04:05 AM
Synchro1:

I looked at the pictures and read your comments and read some of the EF thread from 2010.  All that I see is a variation on a pulse motor like countless others around here have made.  I don't see any measurements.

Honestly, you are getting carried away and drawing conclusions without any real evidence that anything special is going on.  Anybody can take a magnet that rotates on a shaft and a reed switch and a coil and make a motor like you show in your pictures.  Have fun but it's unwise to "over-interpret" what you are observing.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 06, 2013, 08:19:02 AM
Synchro1:

I looked at the pictures and read your comments and read some of the EF thread from 2010.  All that I see is a variation on a pulse motor like countless others around here have made.  I don't see any measurements.

Honestly, you are getting carried away and drawing conclusions without any real evidence that anything special is going on.  Anybody can take a magnet that rotates on a shaft and a reed switch and a coil and make a motor like you show in your pictures.  Have fun but it's unwise to "over-interpret" what you are observing.

MileHigh

What do you mean you didn't see any measurements? You don't believe that diametric magnets will cause Lenz delay placed in the core of an output coil simply because you're being told that by me? Why don't you try it and find out. This is an important discovery.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 06, 2013, 12:31:56 PM

What do you mean you didn't see any measurements? You don't believe that diametric magnets will cause Lenz delay placed in the core of an output coil simply because you're being told that by me? Why don't you try it and find out. This is an important discovery.

You carry on doing what you're doing synch.

The only thing some people seem capable of building is a bad reputation for themselves.

All the best,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 06, 2013, 01:13:01 PM
You carry on doing what you're doing synch.

The only thing some people seem capable of building is a bad reputation for themselves.

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 06, 2013, 01:16:06 PM

Yes you're right, i shouldn't waste my time.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: MileHigh on March 06, 2013, 02:43:39 PM
Synchro1:

Quote
What do you mean you didn't see any measurements? You don't believe that diametric magnets will cause Lenz delay placed in the core of an output coil simply because you're being told that by me?

Did I miss something?  Do you show any measurements anywhere with a multimeter or an oscilloscope?  Just because somebody says something doesn't necessarily mean it's true.  You built a pulse motor and that's all that I see.  I don't see any "discovery" unless you can clearly articulate and document what you are talking about.  That's real life for you.

DeepCut:

Quote
The only thing some people seem capable of building is a bad reputation for themselves.

You are back to sulking in a corner.  Another gratuitous ad hominem attack from you for no reason.  Indeed, stop wasting your time and get yourself together.  I don't need your nonsensical sourpuss bashing.  If I thought that Synchro1 had something unique and of merit I would say that but all that I see is an ordinary pulse motor.  Life is so tough sometimes.

Anyway, I am going to leave this thread because there is nothing here.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 06, 2013, 04:11:25 PM
Coil gauss is directly proportional to Lenz delay: Wether rotor induced in a single primary, or by diametric output core magnet; The flux saturation retards the pole shift in proportion to it's strength in both cases. I achieved self motoring from both ends. Once the coil gauss reaches delay saturation, the pole shit lags behind TDC and produces a shove. Lenz's law states that as the rotor magnet pole nears the output coil it induces an opposite pole that repels it. Forced to fight a powerful background field, the slowing pole can't fully manifest itself in time to slow the rotor down, and lags so far, it gives it a kick instead. Lenz delay overunity is that simple to understand and to succeed at replicating.

The effect jumps at Barkhausen intervals, not linearly. "These magnetization jumps are interpreted as discrete changes in the size or rotation of ferromagnetic domains. Some microscopic clusters of atomic spins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(physics)) aligned with the external magnetizing field increase in size by a sudden reversal of neighboring spins; and, especially as the magnetizing field becomes relatively strong, other whole domains suddenly turn into the direction of the external field". (Wikipedia).

"SUDDEN REVERSAL OF NEIGHBORHOOD SPINS" 'WHOLE DOMAINS SUDDENLY TURN INTO THE DIRECTION OF THE EXTERNAL FIELD".
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on March 06, 2013, 06:51:10 PM

... Dragone patented the Magnet pump Generator. Two disk magnets on each end of a core winding. The field oscillation inside the magnet core output coil accounts for a good share of the abundant amperage. All the time, the slowed pole shift from very powerful magnet core field interference, motors the prime mover like a pulse coil. The power agitated by the spinner hepls drive the rotor magnet with greater force. Three great advantages in one!

Hi synchro1,

I searched for Dragone Magnet pump Generator but I found only one patent (application) by Leon Dragone: Electro Entropic Generator, patent (application) number is GR871255. Is that what you meant?  If you did not mean that please refer to his patent you really meant.
(this is a link to the Greek patent (application): http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GR&NR=871255A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19870814&DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&locale=en_EP )

I know there have been a Dragone paper on the net for many years but it not a patent (if you meant that).

Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 06, 2013, 07:28:02 PM
This PDF of Leon's is somewhat turgid, but in the final diagram, one can see that the permanent magnet field is pushed over to one side at an angle of 45 Degrees by the coil charge sandwiched between the disk magnets. Note the size of the disk magnets and their polarity.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/leon-dragone/energetics-of-ferromagnetism-leon-dragone.pdf (http://www.esmhome.org/library/leon-dragone/energetics-of-ferromagnetism-leon-dragone.pdf)

The conclusion is that PM magnorestriction by coil field, generates power, because the PM has to do more work to realign itself, and eats ambient room heat to restructure on the quantum plane. Leon mentions the "barkhausen" interval too. I believe the same effect helps make the magnet core output coil O.U. My Dragone experiments demonstrated the PM field return generating power in the relaxation phase of the pulse coil.

There is "Magnorestriction" around the PM fields in the output coil, when the tardy pole shift finaly manifests itself. A current appears in the output coil from relaxation phase. This event follows and reinforces the retro-pulse.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 06, 2013, 08:37:24 PM
...

DeepCut:

You are back to sulking in a corner.  Another gratuitous ad hominem attack from you for no reason.  Indeed, stop wasting your time and get yourself together.  I don't need your nonsensical sourpuss bashing.  If I thought that Synchro1 had something unique and of merit I would say that but all that I see is an ordinary pulse motor.  Life is so tough sometimes.

Anyway, I am going to leave this thread because there is nothing here.

MileHigh

Always with the 'sulking in a corner', what corner of your consciousness is that coming from, i wonder ?

You know why you were kicked off OUR and you know your reputation with most of us so you know exactly where i'm coming from.

You have a reputation for being so repeatedly negative that you have ruined threads and scared off more sensitive souls than i.

Anyway i'm glad you've left the thread and i'm even more glad you've learnt a little Latin while you were here.

I hope you find some positivity somewhere MH.

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 06, 2013, 08:47:03 PM
This PDF of Leon's is somewhat turgid, but in the final diagram, one can see that the permanent magnet field is pushed over to one side at an angle of 45 Degrees by the coil charge sandwiched between the disk magnets. Note the size of the disk magnets and their polarity.

http://www.esmhome.org/library/leon-dragone/energetics-of-ferromagnetism-leon-dragone.pdf (http://www.esmhome.org/library/leon-dragone/energetics-of-ferromagnetism-leon-dragone.pdf)

The conclusion is that PM magnorestriction by coil field, generates power, because the PM has to do more work to realign itself, and eats ambient room heat to restructure on the quantum plane. Leon mentions the "barkhausen" interval too. I believe the same effect helps make the magnet core output coil O.U. My Dragone experiments demonstrated the PM field return generating power in the relaxation phase of the pulse coil.

There is "Magnorestriction" around the PM fields in the output coil, when the tardy pole shift finaly manifests itself. A current appears in the output coil from relaxation phase. This event follows and reinforces the retro-pulse.

So it IS more than simply retarding the rise-time.

That explains why the effect is stronger and stronger at higher and higher frequencies and there is no wrap-around into deceleration-under-load bands.

It may also explain why it is possible to short or load the coil, get your acceleration and your current input drop, then UN-short/load the coil and the decreased curent draw and increase acceleration remain in effect.

More and more interesting, thanks synchro.

All the best,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 06, 2013, 11:29:56 PM
Leon Dragone outlines the very simple nature of his electrical 'heat pump'
effect. His system consists of nothing more than a coil, a magnet, a power
supply, and a switch. He places a permanent magnet within a copper coil and
energizes the coil so that the external field of the magnet is
removed/compressed from the space around the magnet, without changing the
polarity domains within the magnet itself. He then employs an arc switch
(simple contacts) to quickly disconnect the power supply from the coil, and
leaves the coil open circuit. Suddenly the field of the permanent magnet is
free to expand back out to its 'normal' geometry around the magnet. But the
process of expanding this field requires work. The coil is open circuit, so
the energy can not be drawn from current in the coil. The field must
reinstate itself. Energy is drawn from the vibrating molecular domains
within the magnet, causing a measured drop in temperature of the magnet.
Essentially, ambient heat is transformed into work to reinstate the field.
Any inductive load applied while the field is expanding/relaxing is driven
by extraction of ambient heat energy from the surrounding enviroment.
Dragone claims to have measured experimental system energy gains on the
order of 20:1, using this approach.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on March 06, 2013, 11:45:20 PM
Leon Dragone outlines the very simple nature of his electrical 'heat pump'
effect. His system consists of nothing more than a coil, a magnet, a power
supply, and a switch. He places a permanent magnet within a copper coil and
energizes the coil so that the external field of the magnet is
removed/compressed from the space around the magnet, without changing the
polarity domains within the magnet itself. He then employs an arc switch
(simple contacts) to quickly disconnect the power supply from the coil, and
leaves the coil open circuit. Suddenly the field of the permanent magnet is
free to expand back out to its 'normal' geometry around the magnet. But the
process of expanding this field requires work. The coil is open circuit, so
the energy can not be drawn from current in the coil. The field must
reinstate itself. Energy is drawn from the vibrating molecular domains
within the magnet, causing a measured drop in temperature of the magnet.
Essentially, ambient heat is transformed into work to reinstate the field.
Any inductive load applied while the field is expanding/relaxing is driven
by extraction of ambient heat energy from the surrounding enviroment.
Dragone claims to have measured experimental system energy gains on the
order of 20:1, using this approach.

I wonder if this is what Magnacoaster (Richard Willis) found?

Interesting ;)

Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 07, 2013, 12:35:03 AM
The following's the abstract from the Magnacoaster Patent. Identical to Leon's Magnet Pump in construction:

"An electrical generator comprises an induction coil having a first end and a second end. There is a first magnet disposed adjacent the first end of the induction coil so as to be in the electromagnetic of the induction coil when the induction coil is energized, and for creating a magnetic field around at least the first end of the induction coil. There is also a second magnet disposed adjacent the second end of the induction coil so as to be in the electromagnetic field of the induction coil when the induction coil is energized, and for creating a magnetic field around at least the second end of the induction coil. A power input circuit portion provides power to the induction coil. A timer is disposed in the power input circuit portion for creating electrical pulses and controlling the timing of the electrical pulses to the induction coil. A power output circuit portion receives power from the induction coil".
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 09, 2013, 03:58:16 PM
Check this new Lenz delay video out from MrAnguswangus:

Output coil adjacency raises gauss levels in each and other coil through mutual reinforcing "Field Lock.". The PMH background field reduces Lenz delay threshold propulsion R.P.M. These Leedskalnin coils, reverse wound to one another, generate a strong background field in attraction. This strong background field interferes with the rotor induced output coil magnetic pole shift interval, and creates the propulsion lag at lower R.P.M ' S.  This is the same effect I get with the diametric core magnets, minus the Magnacoaster output. He's setup to neasure his COP in horse power.

Reconnecting the horseshoe laminations with a small pancake coil in between to regulate magnetic density in the output coils, would help control delay threshold r.p.m's. The question remains wether or not additional pairs of ridgid field reinforcing pole shift dampening coils would help or not.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on March 09, 2013, 04:46:07 PM
Check this new Lenz delay video out from MrAnguswangus:

Output coil adjacency raises gauss levels in each and other coil through mutual reinforcement, and reduces Lenz delay threshold propulsion R.P.M. These Leedskalnin coils, reverse wound to one another, generate a strong background field in attraction. This strong background field interferes with the rotor induced output coil magnetic pole shift interval, and creates the propulsion lag at lower R.P.M ' S.  This is the same effect I get with the diametric core magnets, minus the Magnacoaster output. He's setup to neasure his COP in horse power.

Im amazed that he can still get speed underload even if the core is divided into two? Wonder if the effect is still present if he move the coils 180 degrees apart?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 09, 2013, 07:51:17 PM
I've searched his channel but can't find a video of a test i'd like to see, the rotor speed with no coil/core present. I must message him.

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: garrypm on March 09, 2013, 08:45:09 PM
If he's happy with that, wait till he figures out using backing magnets
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 09, 2013, 10:21:26 PM
If he's happy with that, wait till he figures out using backing magnets

The "Horseshoe Magnet Field" as Flynn demonstrates, has not only the power of each coil, but the power of a third invisable magnet. Muller builders turned to that "Back Magnet" trick when a "C" core with proper permeability, clamped around the outside, and connecting the opposing output coil cores with a magnetic flux path, would greatly increase the magnetic pole shift drag. The additional ferrite would by necessity slow the magnet rotor down untill threshold speed was attained and "Lenz Propulsion" commenced. Diametric cores work better then axial's at the core ends.

A tiny pancake coil seperating the C core in the center would be able to cut the field in two, or with current reversed, raise the field strengh, as patented by Hienrich Kunel.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 11, 2013, 08:24:11 PM
Here's what magnetic inductance looks like between counterwound coils. The L/H formula for Lenz delay threshokd does not  include the "B" field pole shift intereferance factor. The coil inductance remains the same, and a seperate factor emerges. The Henries over Ohms needs a "B" field coefficient to round it out. The magnetic density of the "B" field, measured in Tesla's, needs to be added to the L/H diividend. So it should read: L/H x T. One tesla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_(unit)) is equal to 104 gauss. It dosen't matter how the "B" field poles are set, so long as the domains are rigid in proportion to gauss in Teslas.. Tesla strength has no effect on inductance, and  needs to be included in the threshold formula as a distinct factor. MrAnguswangus could measure the effect simply by comparing the results of running only one coil.

"Domain Ridgity" = T. Pole shift reluctance.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 12, 2013, 12:13:58 AM
A fluxgate magnetometer consists of a small, magnetically susceptible core wrapped by two coils of wire. An alternating electrical current is passed through one coil, driving the core through an alternating cycle of magnetic saturation; i.e., magnetised, unmagnetised, inversely magnetised, unmagnetised, magnetised, and so forth. This constantly changing field induces an electrical current in the second coil, and this output current is measured by a detector. In a magnetically neutral background, the input and output currents will match. However, when the core is exposed to a background field, it will be more easily saturated in alignment with that field and less easily saturated in opposition to it. Hence the alternating magnetic field, and the induced output current, will be out of step with the input current. The extent to which this is the case will depend on the strength of the background magnetic field. Often, the current in the output coil is integrated, yielding an output analog voltage, proportional to the magnetic field. Here's a video on theL/H formula from the archives:

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 12, 2013, 02:30:47 AM
I've finished a very raw version (CLI) of my virtual coil builder program.

You give it the coil-former dimensions, the wire gauge and resistance per metre and the target number of turns.

It gives you the resistance, inductance, number of layers blah, blah ...

I've tested it against 7 actual coils and the results are very good.

I want to stick a GUI on it so that it is nice and friendly for testing.

I will use BlitzPlus, very easy to use, good for knocking something up quickly, free for a short while.

Get BlitzPlus from the following link :

www.blitzbasic.com/Products/_index_.php

You won't need BP to run the compiled program but you will need it to control the source.

Cheers,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 17, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
JLN has looped a Lenz delay circuit and charges his run battery while underload! Note that he accomplishes this with merely two coils like my self loop OU Diametric spinner.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on March 17, 2013, 06:06:58 PM
JLN has looped a Lenz delay circuit and charges his run battery while underload! Note that he accomplishes this with merely two coils like my self loop OU Diametric spinner.

Hi synchro1,

thanks for posting JLN new test. I don't want to sound negative here but I would like to point out that JLN new test is not a self loop. The input to his prime mover is from a power supply set at 29vdc and 3.12amps = over 90 watts.

JLN is only demonstrating that the coils under load (one on the LED bulbs and one charging a battery) will not affect the prime mover.

JLN needs to find a prime mover that is much more efficient then the outrunner motor he is using to consider a self loop.

I'm glad he is doing these experiments as it may encourage others to research.

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 17, 2013, 06:57:15 PM
Hi synchro1,

thanks for posting JLN new test. I don't want to sound negative here but I would like to point out that JLN new test is not a self loop. The input to his prime mover is from a power supply set at 29vdc and 3.12amps = over 90 watts.

JLN is only demonstrating that the coils under load (one on the LED bulbs and one charging a battery) will not affect the prime mover.

JLN needs to find a prime mover that is much more efficient then the outrunner motor he is using to consider a self loop.

I'm glad he is doing these experiments as it may encourage others to research.

Luc

You're right, thanks. He'd get the self loop OU if he positioned a diametric tube magnet snugly in the output coil core, and replaced that juice hog motor with a large tube spinner like Skycollection's.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 17, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
Here is the link to my virtual coil builder program :

http://www.mediafire.com/?op72vvb361ovw80 (http://www.mediafire.com/?op72vvb361ovw80)

and here is the link to the BASIC language compiler that runs it, scroll down to the BlitzPlus item that is free :

http://blitzbasic.com/Products/_index_.php (http://blitzbasic.com/Products/_index_.php)

The program can be set to go for a resistance target or a number of turns target.

It then reports the coils dimensions as well as projected properties like inductance and resistance.

I have checked nearly 20 actual coils now and have also compared it with online calculators and i'm very pleased with it, the inductance calculation has been within around 3% accurate.

It has saved me from shooting in the dark and i can now confidently wind a coil having first simulated it to see the perfect coil-former length and diameter to maximise its inductance, i hope it's helpful to others.

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Here2njoy on March 18, 2013, 08:22:49 PM
The latest video from skycollection on delayed Lenz:

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on March 18, 2013, 09:11:49 PM
Hi everyone,

a warning to everyone. I contacted skycollection around 2 months ago when he started experimenting with bi-filar pancake coils as generator coils. At that time he did not have the delayed Lenz effect.  Some of you may know that I worked with Thane Heins.
I thought skycollection high rpm magnetic bearing motor would be able to demonstrate a good effect so I freely shared how to connect the many layers of bi-filar pancake coils in a way to raise the self capacitance. We exchanged many emails.

To make a long story short, about a week after our exchange he got the effect, so I made some more suggestions and he replied this was all his own ideas. That's when I realized this guy is in it for himself. Notice he does not show how to builds anything.

Just thought I would share that

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 18, 2013, 10:03:26 PM
We don't need to involve all that extra wire to raise the equivilant Lenz delay "Self Capacitance", all we need to do is push a diametric plig in the air core of any Tesla bifilar configuration output coil.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on March 18, 2013, 11:39:09 PM
We don't need to involve all that extra wire to raise the equivilant Lenz delay "Self Capacitance", all we need to do is push a diametric plig in the air core of any Tesla bifilar configuration output coil.

Hi,

Could you elaborate on "all we need to do is push a diametric plig in the air core of any Tesla bifilar configuration output coil."?

What is a plig?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 18, 2013, 11:41:48 PM
A diametric tube magnet, plugged into a solinoid tesla bifilar outpt coil core!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 18, 2013, 11:56:29 PM
I have a spare diametric cylinder magnet.

I will try using it as a coil-core on my diametric AUL testbed this week.

I can't imagine the advantage of having this as a core but i will try it ?

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 18, 2013, 11:59:23 PM
@Deepcut,

Make sure the coil is bifilar series wired. Place a load on it like Skycollection's rextifier LED. Domain priority and Barkhausen!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 12:00:57 AM
Hi everyone,

...

so I freely shared how to connect the many layers of bi-filar pancake coils in a way to raise the self capacitance.

Luc

I should hope so too ! Freely-sharing should be the default and not be said as if one were being especially magnanimous !

atb,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 12:07:46 AM
@gotoluc

i just watched his video, he is definitely looking for cash in his pocket and it seems he thinks you've taught him magic ;+}

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 12:11:55 AM
@Deepcut,

Make sure the coil is bifilar series wired. Place a load on it like Skycollection's rextifier LED. Domain priority and Barkhausen!

Yup, all my coils are bifilar serial.

I don't use LED's though, i am going for a very high time constant and 6 x 3LB coils in order to support a larger range of loads.

I'd appreciate if you could tell me what you think is happening when you use a magnet as a core ?

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 12:21:05 AM
The strong PM core field retards the pole shift in the output coil as opposite approaching magnet poles influence it. This has the same effect as the addition of pancake coils one on the othe to increase "Self Inductance ". This timing retardation generates the propulsion.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 12:22:37 AM
Sounds good.

I should be able to give that a go tomorrow, cheers synchro :)

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2013, 12:51:22 AM
The strong PM core field retards the pole shift in the output coil as opposite approaching magnet poles influence it. This is  like the addition of pancake coils one on the other. This generates the propulsion.

Hi synchro1, lets see if I understand you correctly.

Generator coil:
Wind a cylinder (solenoid style) bi-filar series connected coil with a center opening large enough to accommodate a free spinning cylinder diametric polarized magnet in its inside center will result in a Lenz free generator at any rpm?

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on March 19, 2013, 05:40:10 AM
Hi everyone,

a warning to everyone. I contacted skycollection around 2 months ago when he started experimenting with bi-filar pancake coils as generator coils. At that time he did not have the delayed Lenz effect.  Some of you may know that I worked with Thane Heins.
I thought skycollection high rpm magnetic bearing motor would be able to demonstrate a good effect so I freely shared how to connect the many layers of bi-filar pancake coils in a way to raise the self capacitance. We exchanged many emails.

To make a long story short, about a week after our exchange he got the effect, so I made some more suggestions and he replied this was all his own ideas. That's when I realized this guy is in it for himself. Notice he does not show how to builds anything.

Just thought I would share that

Luc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on March 19, 2013, 05:47:18 AM
Hi synchro1, lets see if I understand you correctly.

Generator coil:
Wind a cylinder (solenoid style) bi-filar series connected coil with a center opening large enough to accommodate a free spinning cylinder diametric polarized magnet in its inside center will result in a Lenz free generator at any rpm?

Thanks

Luc

That's a cool idea, with the main rotor magnet spinning, creating induction to the coil and inside it there's a  free spinning magnet also, causing induction to the coil hmmm... I wonder What would be the effect?

Regards
Cc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ALVARO_CS on March 19, 2013, 09:04:25 AM
Hello all
I´ve been watching the skycollection videos from the beginning, and although I admire his craftmanship, I cannot say the same of his speech.
Always showing things, and always hiding the main details or the circuit schematics, . . . . fustrating
here is the translation of this last video. . . . (take your own conclusions)

-well
-in this occasion we`re gonna make a small sketch of what is the magnetic induction
-well so. . . the magnetic induction is the difference of potential or the voltage produced through a conductor when it is exposed to a variable field
-well here is the case
-here we have an inductor, but this inductor is a special case because it does not have alternate currents that could disrupt the rotor rotation
-here has been removed (eliminated) mostly the induction generated by the magnets, or the Lenz effect was here eliminated.
-and we´re gonna prove it with this magnets rotor, and we have here four inductors some coils that are driving the motor and the others are inductors
-well we´re gonna test it
- well here the current starts to be generated in the inductors
-practically all of them were turned on
-and as you can see there is no resistance to impede the rotor to turn
-and this is what is consumed in this motor
-we´re making subsequently a calculation about the production in each one of the inductors
-and here the Lenz effect is been deleted
-we have no resistance, just the air
-and this leads me to produce in the future this interesting coil which has not the Lenz effect
-well thank you very much for your attention

regards
Alvaro
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 09:31:24 AM
@Alvaro

Don't be frustrated, his driving circuit can't be very good as he is using 8 watts to spin a very light rotor.

As for his coils, they are bifilar-serial sections connected in parallel - there is no mystery though he obviously wants people to think he's a wizard.

gotoluc advised me to try this config which i have only tried with two sections but it did help.

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: PiCéd on March 19, 2013, 10:17:47 AM
Hello.

I know that a bifilar coil (or pancakes) does not heat the iron, but what I wanted to know is when a bifilar coil is wound on an iron core of high permeability (nanocrystalline for exemple) and we do the same thing than skycollection is that the primary intensity decreases more than if the permeability where less?
I wonder if a bifilar coil in low frequency can do the same thing as a ordinary coil on high frequency.

This reduction will inevitably accelerate the craft.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:21:37 AM
@Piced

In my tests, a bifilar-wound, serial-connected coil outperforms a straight-wound coil of the same amount of wire by 400%.

Connect your serial-connected, bifilar sections in parallel and you get acceleration at lower RPM's due to increased current.

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ALVARO_CS on March 19, 2013, 10:38:16 AM
@DeepCut
Does it work well with an air core ?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:46:21 AM
@Alvero

I haven't experimented with air cores. I met with Romero the other day and he says he has got the effect with an aircore, his website is :

http://www.underservice.org

I use very thin laminations of grain-oriented M6 steel with gaps of about 0.2mm between them and this works well.

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 01:37:19 PM
Hi synchro1, lets see if I understand you correctly.

Generator coil:
Wind a cylinder (solenoid style) bi-filar series connected coil with a center opening large enough to accommodate a free spinning cylinder diametric polarized magnet in its inside center will result in a Lenz free generator at any rpm?

Thanks

Luc

The Magnacoaster effect generates the power, not a free spinning magnet. The Magnet should be stationary! Low threshold Lenz free r.p.m.
Title: GOOD MAGNET PRICES !
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 01:50:22 PM
Very good prices on magnets from a supplier in Germany.

They beat ALL my UK suppliers even including postage and currency conversion!

http://www.neomagnete.com/

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 02:18:57 PM
A stack like these should work fine:
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on March 19, 2013, 02:23:35 PM

The Magnacoaster effect generates the power, not a free spinning magnet. The Magnet should be stationary! Low threshold Lenz free r.p.m.

Hi syncro1,

How about solid magnets? Not ring mags.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 02:27:05 PM
Crazycut,

Solid ones should work just as good. I never tried solid ones, so I can't say for sure.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 02:27:51 PM
@crazycut

I'd imagine the centre hole isn't necessary but may be useful if you want to stop the magnet rotating by putting some threaded brass (non magnetic) rod through it and clamping it with nuts and washers.

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on March 19, 2013, 02:37:33 PM
@ syncro1,
I've tried it with solid mags, i got more power out but with more drag, maybe my configuration isn't right...

@Dc,
Thanks for the info.

Regards
Cc

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 02:49:33 PM
@ syncro1,
I've tried it with solid mags, i got more power out but with more drag, maybe my configuration isn't right...

@Dc,
Thanks for the info.

Regards
Cc

Try speeding the rotor up! You're below threshold r.p.m.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on March 19, 2013, 03:00:35 PM

Try speeding the rotor up! Your below threshold r.p.m.

My rotor is 12 inch dia. With 8 1"x1/2" mags, i think i need to add more magnets or cut the rotor to a smaller size? What do u think guys...

P.s. my rotor speed is about 1,500 rpm.

Regards
Cc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 03:06:53 PM

My rotor is 12 inch dia. With 8 1"x1/2" mags, i think i need to add more magnets or cut the rotor to a smaller size? What do u think guys...

P.s. my rotor speed is about 1,500 rpm.

Regards
Cc

The important thing is the frequency the coils are being pulsed at by the magnets.

Your rotor has 8 magnets and is doing 1,500 RPM so the frequency is :

RPM/60 x number of magnets

= 1500/60 (25) x 8 = 200 Hertz.

You need to double the frequency by either doubling the number of magnets or doubling the RPM.

I have done some spreadsheets and a couple of programs that you may find handy, let me get the links and i'll post it for you with explanations.

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: crazycut06 on March 19, 2013, 03:20:09 PM
The important thing is the frequency the coils are being pulsed at by the magnets.

Your rotor has 8 magnets and is doing 1,500 RPM so the frequency is :

RPM/60 x number of magnets

= 1500/60 (25) x 8 = 200 Hertz.

You need to double the frequency by either doubling the number of magnets or doubling the RPM.

I have done some spreadsheets and a couple of programs that you may find handy, let me get the links and i'll post it for you with explanations.

All the best,

DC.

Actually im not paying too much attention on computations, just trying and experimentingf irst on coils to get "aul" but no luck until now, so another approach is needed,  i havn't touch my rig for a month now because of frustrations  ;D  Nah! Just giving my brain a little rest once in a while... i'll think of what you have told,
Thanks!

Regards
Cc
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 03:40:24 PM
You will end up needing to do calculations, trust me :)

They are in a RAR archive, you can open them by getting WinRAR :

The programs need BlitzPlus (a BASIC compiler) to run.

You can get BlitzPlus for free here, just scroll down until you see the BlitzPlus product on the left :

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Products/_index_.php (http://www.blitzbasic.com/Products/_index_.php)

Programs.

The program called 'rotor.bb' enables you to visualise how your coils and magnets interact using a simple 2D drawing.

The program is a bit rough and ready as it's just for my use, but if you've never seen code before, don't worry, it's easy to modify.

You need to enter your own falues for the following variables that you will easily spot in the listing :

rot_diam              (Your rotor diameter in millimetres)
num_mags           (The number of magnets on your rotor)
num_coils             (The number of coils in your setup)
mag_diam             (The diameter of your magnets, sorry if yours are square but it's just for visualisation)
coil_diam              (The diameter of your coil)
core_diam             (The diameter of your core)

Then run the program and press any key to step through a rotation of the rotor.

The program called 'vcb_core.bb' is a virtual coil builder, i have checked it with real coils and quite a few online calculators and it compares well, with around 3% accuracy.

The variables you have to enter your own values for here are :

barrel_length           (The length of your coil-former's central tube)
barrel_diam             (The diameter of your coil-former's central tube)
wire_diam                (The diameter of your wire in millimetre)
wire_res                  (Your wire resistance per millimetre)
target_coil_res         (The target resistance you want the final coil to have)

Run the program and it will tell you the inductance/resistance plus physical properties of the coil as well as drawing a side profile of the final coil.

I use this to calculate the barrel length and coil dimensions that will maximise my inductance.

So, if i have a pound of wire, this program will tell me the best way to wind it because i know the resistance of a pound of wire of a certain gauge and can set that as the target.

The spreadsheets are in MS Excel format, if you don't have MS office you can use it online here :

https://skydrive.live.com/ (https://skydrive.live.com/)

Or get OpenOffice here :

http://www.openoffice.org/ (http://www.openoffice.org/)

The spreadsheet called 'Coil Output' will tell you how many turns you need on a coil to get a specific, average, rectified DC output.

You input the blue sections and it outputs the green and yellow sections.

If you have rectangular magnets, just set the circular magnet diameter to zero.

If you have circular magnets, set the rectangular magnet sides to zero.

The spreadsheet called 'Time Constant' calculates lots of handy info.

You input lines 1 to 8 and it outputs all the rest.

They are all here in one file :

I hope you (and anyone else) finds them as handy as i do :)

All the best,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 04:11:06 PM
@synchro1: Just for the dumb ones like me.

I attach a picture of a "diametric polarized ring magnet". Is that what you talk about?

http://www.magnet-shop.net/Neodym-Magnete/Ringmagnete/Ringmagnet-200-x-40-x-70-mm-N35-Nickel-DIAMETRAL::1568.html

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 04:25:13 PM
Yes conrad that is it, magnetized through it's axis so that one curved side is N and the other curved side is S.

all the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Heinstein on March 19, 2013, 04:25:55 PM
HERE IS YOUR ("INGNORANCE IS NOT BLISS") LESSON FOR THE DAY BOYS AND GIRLS...

Cheers
Thane

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ReGenX and Impedance Matching...
From: Stefan Hartmann hartiberlin@gmail.com
Date: Mon, March 18, 2013 8:09 pm
To: thaneh@potentialdifference.ca,

Hi Thane,
to me "impedance matching"  also means:

DEAR STEFAN,

WHAT IT "MEANS" TO YOU IS IRRELEVANT SINCE,

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS - BUT NOT THEIR OWN FACTS. ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Reducing the load on the input power by matching the right load at the output...

Exactly this you are doing...

NOT TRUE AT ALL (AND THIS IS A FORM OF MALICIOUS SCIENTIFIC SLANDER BASED IN IGNORANCE WHICH SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED), AND WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE OVER UNITY FORUM TERMS OF USE IF SHARED: "You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate"...

SINCE A DEAD SHORT IS AN INFINITE LOAD AND YOU CAN'T GET A HIGHER LOAD THAN THAT. AND THE ReGenX GENERATOR CREATES THE MOST ACCELERATION WITH A DEAD SHORT (IE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF LIGHT BULBS (LOADS) CONNECTED IN PARALLEL) AND WORKS BEST WITH PURELY RESISTIVE LOADS.

THE "IMPEDANCE MATCHING" IDEA IS COMPLETLY FALSE, INACCURATE AND PURE BALONEY!

But you don´t yet get more power out than in.

YES WE DO (ANOTHER FALSE AND INACCURATE STATEMENT BASED IN IGNORANCE) AND I EXPLAIN WHY BELOW... TO THOSE WHO ARE EDUCATED ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND IT WILL BE CLEAR.

I ALWAYS FIND IT AMAZING THAT THE FOUNDER OF AN OU FORUM CAN'T EVEN SEE OU WHEN IT HAS BEEN STARING HIM IN THE FACE FOR OVER 5 YEARS.

If you are still using your yellow motor for testing and still no flywheel, you will not see, if you can raise the RPM on the purely passive flywheel by appling your Regen-X coil load...

Only this test would be valid and will show, if adding your Regen-X system will not drag the Flywheel RPM totally down over time.

NO IT WILL NOT (AND AGAIN MORE IGNORANCE)...

SINCE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CORE MATERIAL ON THE PLANET THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE SOME SORT OF HYSTERESIS EFFECT (MAGNETIC DRAG), AND REMNANT FLUX IN THE CORE REQUIRING ADDITIONAL DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE TO EXTRACT IT. (THE COMPANY THAT CREATES ONE WILL RULE THE WORLD BTW)

THE ReGenX GENERATOR OPERATES ON THE VERY SAME PRINCIPLE AS DO ALL GENERATORS I.E. COILS WITH CORES - SO IN THAT SENSE IT IS EXACTLY IDENTICAL TO ANY OTHER GENERATOR ON THE PLANET (THAT HAS CORES).

HYSTERESIS, REMNANT FLUX, AND DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE REQUIREMENTS WILL ALL BE DEALT WITH IN MANUFACTURING IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

So putting a Regen-X system on any motor will just need additional input power, cause your coil rods are dragging the motor down.

WE DON'T USE "RODS" WE USE M3 AND ABOVE FERROMAGNETIC LAMINATIONS TO MINIMIZE CORE HYSTERESIS AS DO ALL GOOD GENERATORS AND MOTORS ON PLANET EARTH.

Why aren´t you just doing the run test on your E-Bike ?

WHO SAYS WE ARE NOT?  ???

Just let the E-Bike run WITHOUT the Regen-X system and see how long the 36 Volts batteries will last and the attach again the Regen-X system and let the bike again run the 36 Volts Battery pack run down by recharging the 36 Volts battery pack from the output of your coils.

THE 24 COILS ON THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE PROJECT WILL DELIVER A MINIMUM OF 384 WATTS OR 16 WATTS/COIL.   THE BIKE MOTOR WILL CONSUME A MAXIMUM OF 360 WATTS.

ONCE COMPLETE THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE WILL RUN "FOREVER" AS PLANNED JUST AS WE DID AT OU (OTTAWA U WITH THE BYONX eBIKE).  8)

As you already have all the parts in place, why don´t you do these tests ?

Regards, Stefan.

MORE IGNORANCE AND MORE FAULTY ASSUMPTIONS - ALL THE PARTS ARE NOT IN PLACE...

ALL 24 COILS HAVE TO BE REWOUND AND 2 MORE ROTORS HAVE TO BE MADE AND INSTALLED WITH 2 NEW COIL JIGS ETC.  :P

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OVER-UNITY AND PERPETUAL MOTION

BELLOW IS THE CORRECT WAY TO EVALUATE ANY ELECTRIC GENERATOR:

AN ELECTRIC GENERATOR IS A DEVICE WHICH CONVERTS MECHANICAL POWER INTO ELECTRICAL POWER.

THE INPUT TO THE GENERATOR IS THE MECHANICAL POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT WHICH IS EQUAL TO THE TORQUE X THE SPEED.

THE OUTPUT IS THE ELECTRICAL POWER DELIVERED TO THE LOAD.

ALL GENERATORS ARE EVALUATED (EFFICIENCY WISE) BY WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THEY ARE PLACED ON-LOAD NOT BEFORE (DURING NO-LOAD).

FOR EXAMPLE:

THE HYDROELECTRIC GENERATOR ON THE RIVER IN OUR TOWN REQUIRES 500 KW OF MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER JUST TO IDLE ON NO-LOAD!  :P

A LARGE WIND TURBINE WOULD BE EVEN WORSE AND REQUIRE EVEN MORE NO-LOAD IDLING ENERGY AND OFTEN THE WIND TURBINE'S GENERATOR IS USED AS A MOTOR TO BRING THE BLADES UP TO SPEED. ALSO OFTEN DONE TO TRICK THE TOWN FOLK WHEN THE WIND IS LOW BUT THE PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEIR TURBINE TURNING INSTEAD OF SITTING IDLE.

A DIESEL MOTOR WILL POWER A LARGE GENERATOR ON NO-LOAD WITH A LARGE FUEL CONSUMPTION - WITH ZERO POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT, ZERO GENERATOR OUTPUT AND ZERO EFFICIENCY.

THE IDLING NO-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY REQUIREMENTS ARE NEVER EVER PART OF THE EFFICIENCY CALCULATION. IF THEY WERE MOST GENERATORS WOULD BE LESS THAN 10% EFFICIENT AND THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

IT IS THE ON-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY INPUT INCREASE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IMPORTANT NOT THE NO-LOAD IDLING PRIME MOVER POWER CONSUMPTION.

I.E. A GENERATOR THAT DELIVERS 0.8 WATTS TO THE LOAD WITH A 1 WATT INCREASE IN ON-LOAD MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER OVER THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT IS 80% EFFICIENT - EVEN THOUGH THE NO-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY INPUT MAY BE 500 KW AND THE TOTAL INPUT 500,001 WATTS WITH AN OUTPUT OF 0.8 WATTS!

SO IF YOU HAVE A GENERATOR THAT ACCELERATES ON-LOAD ANY LOAD (AND YOU ARE NOT SOMEHOW REDUCING NO-LOAD MECHANICAL LOSSES IN THE PROCESS THEN YOU HAVE OVER-UNITY) CONGRATULATIONS!  ;)

SATURATING THE CORE AND REDUCING ROTOR FLUX PENETRATION WOULD BE A FORM OF NO-LOAD LOSS REDUCTION BECAUSE THE HYSTERESIS EFFECTS WOULD BE REDUCED (BUT THE CORE WOULD QUICKLY OVERHEAT AND FAIL)  :o

AS WOULD LEVITATING THE GENERATOR OFF THE BEARINGS OR SUPERCONDUCTING YOUR COILS ETC. WHEN PLACING IT ON-LOAD.

BTW THE NET MECHANICAL INPUT POWER TO ANY GENERATOR AT ANY STEADY STATE SPEED IS 0.00 WATTS BECAUSE THE NET TORQUE WILL ALWAYS BE ZERO AND MECHANICAL INPUT POWER = TORQUE X SPEED.

IF THE SYSTEM ACCELERATES ON-LOAD THEN THE MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER INCREASES (OVER THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT) + THE LOAD POWER ADDED TOGETHER ARE MORE THAN THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT ... THE GENERATOR IS OVER-UNIY ALTHOUGH NOT PERPETUAL MOTION.  :'(

IF YOU CAN DELIVER SUSTAINED POWER TO A LOAD (OR LOADS) WITH A REDUCTION IN NO-LOAD IDLING INPUT POWER REQUIREMENT THEN EVEN BETTER.  ;D

ANY GENERATOR THAT CAN DELIVER 1 WATT OF ELECTRICAL POWER WITH ONLY A 1 WATT INCREASE IN MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT INPUT POWER INCREASE (OVER THE N0-LOAD STARTING POINT) IS 100% EFFICIENT.

IT GOES UP OR DOWN FROM THERE... NOT HAVING TO INCREASE THE MECHANICAL INPUT WHILE DELIVERING 0.0000000000000000000000000001^N=INFINITY WATTS IS OVER-UNITY.  :D

THE ReGenX GENERATOR DELIVERS 1 WATT OF ELECTRICAL POWER TO ITS LOADS + AN INCREASE IN MECHANICAL OUTPUT WITHOUT AN INCREASE IN DRIVE SHAFT MECHANICAL INPUT POWER AND INCLUDES A REDUCTION IN PRIME MOVER INPUT.

PERPETUAL MOTION IN THIS CASE REQUIRES AN OVER-UNITY GENERATOR CONFIGURATION WHEREBY THE ELECTRICAL OUTPUT EXCEEDS THE ELECTRICAL INPUT POWER AND ALL THE RESISTIVE LOSSES IN THE SYSTEM WHICH IS A TALL ORDER BECAUSE THE RESISTIVE LOSSES INCREASE AS SYSTEM SPEED INCREASES  :P

BUT IT CAN AND HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE AND WILL BE DONE AGAIN.  ;)

REGARDS Thane

ps
THE DAY I CREATED A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY (ATTACHED)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 04:26:38 PM
Here is a video of AUL in my diametric setup :

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 04:29:29 PM
@synchro1: Just for the dumb ones like me.

I attach a picture of a "diametric polarized ring magnet". Is that what you talk about?

http://www.magnet-shop.net/Neodym-Magnete/Ringmagnete/Ringmagnet-200-x-40-x-70-mm-N35-Nickel-DIAMETRAL::1568.html (http://www.magnet-shop.net/Neodym-Magnete/Ringmagnete/Ringmagnet-200-x-40-x-70-mm-N35-Nickel-DIAMETRAL::1568.html)

Yes! The PM fields are pushed and pulled over the copper windings by the AC rotor. At the same time, this undulating field delays the induced magnet coil pole shift and inversely generates a propulsive pulse. This acts just like six panckaes in parallel. Combined with the Magnacoaster output, this type of output coil is OU beyound delay threshold r.p.m. Too simple to patent.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 19, 2013, 04:29:38 PM
Hi DeepCut,

Thank you for the useful programs. :)

There is another language called Processing which is open source. It can handle 2D/3D graphics and gui input.

It works on Linux, Win and Mac. Programs can also be exported to Android OS with Android SDK for tablets or phones.

http://processing.org/
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 04:42:32 PM
Hi DTB, long time no speak :)

I've never used processing, but that's what my arduino's language is based on i think ?

I think you've advised me in the past to check it out, i'll have a look :)

How are things with you, what are you dreaming/thinking/building ?

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect SORRY LUC !
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 06:42:11 PM
Hi everyone,

a warning to everyone. I contacted skycollection around 2 months ago when he started experimenting with bi-filar pancake coils as generator coils. At that time he did not have the delayed Lenz effect.  Some of you may know that I worked with Thane Heins.
I thought skycollection high rpm magnetic bearing motor would be able to demonstrate a good effect so I freely shared how to connect the many layers of bi-filar pancake coils in a way to raise the self capacitance. We exchanged many emails.

To make a long story short, about a week after our exchange he got the effect, so I made some more suggestions and he replied this was all his own ideas. That's when I realized this guy is in it for himself. Notice he does not show how to builds anything.

Just thought I would share that

Luc

I'm sorry for completely getting the context wrong and being rude !

Apologies,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 07:18:07 PM
The Magnacoaster effect generates the power, not a free spinning magnet. The Magnet should be stationary! Low threshold Lenz free r.p.m.

@synchro: Again for the stupid ones like me.

How do you want the magnet inside the bifilar coil? Please see my drawing. Type A or Type B or am I completely wrong?

You say "the magnet should be stationary". Does it mean, the ring magnet is fixed inside the bifilar coil like a core?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 07:43:30 PM
@synchro: Again for the stupid ones like me.

How do you want the magnet inside the bifilar coil? Please see my drawing. Type A or Type B or am I completely wrong?

You say "the magnet should be stationary". Does it mean, the ring magnet is fixed inside the bifilar coil like a core?

Type "A'. A snug fit is best. It's O.K to wedge something in there, like a flat toothpick.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 07:44:04 PM
Your picture A is the correct one.

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 07:49:57 PM
The PM fields are at right angles to the wire coil's axial poles. The Magnetic Interferance is strong enough to delay the rotor induced pole shift in the spindle coil. This is above the delay threshold r.p.m's, nothing for a bearingless spinner. Multiple magnets can gain with a really good bearing like the VCR type, but it requires a feat of engineering to balance.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 08:06:41 PM
@synchro1 and DeepCut: thank you for the answers, that clarified a lot.

A attached a picture taken from the latest video of skycollection with two questions.

What do you think?

Are the magnets in skycollection's rotor S N S N  or S S S S or N N N N ? Does it matter?

Using synchro1's (I called them Type A) coils instead of skycollection's coils? Would it work?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 08:18:34 PM
@synchro1 and DeepCut: thank you for the answers, that clarified a lot.

A attached a picture taken from the latest video of skycollection with two questions.

What do you think?

Are the magnets in skycollection's rotor S N S N  or S S S S or N N N N ? Does it matter?

Using synchro1's (I called them Type A) coils instead of skycollection's coils? Would it work?

The idea is to multiply the alternations per second. Makes no sense to double up on pole orientation. JLN's is NSNS
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Your magnet orientation is dependent upon how you drive the rotor and what you want to get out of it.

If you are driving your rotor with induction, as in the Adams motor or Bedini's SSG, you want all the same poles facing the coils, because the driving coil can only pulse N or S, depending how it is wound.

For power generation, N/S is better because you get a larger min/max voltage, but this works best if you are driving your rotor with a DC motor or some other, non-inductive, driver.

You also have to think about what is happening when a magnet is entering/exiting a coil (moving close toward or moving away from).

As the magnet enters the coil, depending on coil winding and magnet face, let's say we create a North pole in the coil. Then, as the magnet exits, it creates the opposite pole (in this case South) because it is going from the inside to the outside of the coil rather than the outside to the inside, so it's cutting the coil in a different direction, thereby reversing the polarity.

So, for good output power on a multi-magnet rotor, you want to have one magnet entering the coil as the magnet ahead of it is starting to move away from the centre of the coil.

Having said all that, i do remember in one of my old setups, the AUL effect seemed to be stronger when the magnets were close together and creating (i would have thought) opposing poles in the coil at the same time.

This may be due to the same principle that synchro describes when using a diametric magnet as the core.

But we're in unknown territory so odd things happen.

In my first succesful AUL setup, at certain frequencies, having shorted the coil and got acceleration, i would then unshort the coil and the rotor stayed at the accelerated speed ! I am still unsure as to why this happened and so are people i have asked who know a lot more than i do.

Can you describe and/or do you have a picture of your setup ?

I'm about to watch a video but i will be back on in about an hour.

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 09:14:09 PM
Can you describe and/or do you have a picture of your setup ?

All the best,

DC.

Some time ago I built a fairly efficient pulse motor. See the attached pictures.

I might build a bigger version (larger disk) which would allow me to place up to four (or even more) of synchro1's generator coils around the rotor (disk with the magnets)  in addition to the drive coils and the sensor coils.

In my design the magnets had all the same orientation.

I used two pairs of drive coils and one pair of sensor coils. The sensor coils were the best option for controlling the pulses. In my case better than a hall sensor (which needs power, whereas the sensor coils generate the small power for the control signal). A reed switch is too slow and too unreliable for high speed turning.

The type of rotor I built allows for coil pairs (future generator coils, two drive coils and sensor coil all come in pairs), which according to my opinion is more efficient than single coils because both sides of the magnets (in the rotor) are utilized.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 09:34:43 PM
Some time ago I built a fairly efficient pulse motor. See the attached pictures.

I might build a bigger version (larger disk) which would allow me to place up to four (or even more) of synchro1's generator coils around the rotor (disk with the magnets)  in addition to the drive coils and the sensor coils.

In my design the magnets had all the same orientation.

I used two pairs of drive coils and one pair of sensor coils. The sensor coils were the best option for controlling the pulses. In my case better than a hall sensor (which needs power, whereas the sensor coils generate the small power for the control signal). A reed switch is too slow and too unreliable for high speed turning.

The type of rotor I built allows for coil pairs (future generator coils, two drive coils and sensor coil all come in pairs), which according to my opinion is more efficient than single coils because both sides of the magnets (in the rotor) are utilized.

Nice platform. All your output coils need to be bifilar tesla wired, and the rotor magnets alternating polarity. The power coil can improve as a bifilar too, with the bipolar rotor. DeepCut's the one really set up to test this kind of coil. He's doing a great favor for us replicating this with scope shots.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 09:45:24 PM

Nice platform. All your output coils need to be bifilar tesla wired, and the rotor magnets alternating polarity. The power coil can improve as a bifilar too, with the bipolar rotor.

Alternating polarity magnet placement on the rotor will not work with my drive circuit.

My drive circuit depends on the fact that all magnets pass the coils with the same pole all the time. One coil of each pair expects N and the other opposing coil S (drive coil pairs and sensor coil pair). For the generator coil pairs the magnets could be placed with alternating poles.

I find it difficult to come up with a pulse motor circuit to drive a rotor with alternating pole magnets. The essence of a pulse motor seems to be that the poles of the rotor magnets all face the same way.

You are right, the drive coils and the sensor coils should be bifilar too.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 09:49:08 PM

Then it would run off a single Reed switch in series with the power coils and the battery. That's the beauty of the bifilar, it's ambivilant. Of course it would kill it if you tried to run it with magnets in the power coils. The loads would work like Skycollection's rectifier LEDS on the magnet filled output coils.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 09:53:50 PM
Yes very nice platform, what's your maximum rotor speed and the maximum corresponding input ?

@synchro

I don't have a scope yet :( I use cheap USB sound sticks plus that soundcard oscilloscope software.

Luckily i've just landed some good work so hope to get a proper scope next month.

But i've ordered the parts i need to explore the tube magnet as a core idea.

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 09:57:29 PM
Yes very nice platform, what's your maximum rotor speed and the maximum corresponding input ?

@synchro

I don't have a scope yet :( I use cheap USB sound sticks plus that soundcard oscilloscope software.

Luckily i've just landed some good work so hope to get a proper scope next month.

But i've ordered the parts i need to explore the tube magnet as a core idea.

All the best,

DC.

Thanks, a replication even with your modest digital testing equipment is more then I can supply.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 10:03:29 PM
Then it would run off a single Reed switch in series with the power coils and the battery. That's the beauty of the bifilar, it's ambivilant. Of course it would kill it if you tried to run it with magnets in the power coils. The loads would work like Skycollection's rectifier LEDS on the magnet filled output coils.

I have to think about this and do some tests. I did not know that a Tesla-Bifilar is independent of the polarity of a passing magnet.

I always dislike reed switches, they do not work very long (1 or 10 Million switch actions at the most, depending on quality)? And I think that the switching frequency is limited to about 1 KHz.

There are reed switches which work with both poles and some which only react to one pole. I have "closers" which react to both magnetic poles. They would be right.

In case alternating poles are absolutely necessary one would have to use a second disc. One disk (with all magnets in the same direction) for driving and a second disk (with alternating magnet poles) for generating power with synchro1 coils.

Or one drives the generator disk with an ordinary DC motor (but it has a low efficiency of 60%).

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:09:30 PM
My pleasure sync :)

I don't think a bifilar coil is independent, polewise, in that sense it's just like a normal coil, all the wire wound in the same direction, so you couldn't have a bifilar drive coil that would drive N and S magnets.

e2a :

watch the OUG videos on my channel :

atb,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 10:14:34 PM
Yes very nice platform, what's your maximum rotor speed and the maximum corresponding input ?
All the best,

DC.

My design was an exercise in low power consumption, therefore the drive coils have a high DC resistance (very many turns with thin wire, coils from relays).

The highest turn rate with a 9 Volt battery is about 800 rpm (revolutions per minute). With a 2.2 Volt battery it just turnes slowly.

For a test of the "delayed Lenz effect" I would of course need coils with much less turns (and stronger wire) and it will need some Watts to turn a bigger rotor very fast (e.g. at 5000 rpm). This will also need a more careful mechanical layout.

And that is the reason why I will probably never build it. My skills in mechanics are rather low. I have some bearings from bigger old hard disk drives which could be used. Ballancing the rotor (to avoid vibrations) is difficult but very important at high rpm.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:22:42 PM
One more thing Conrad, i switched from an inductive drive coil to a DC motor (for my multi-magnet rotor) and got better results, but it is a good motor, here on ebay in the UK :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-DC-electric-motor-UK-SELLER-/110739940158?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item19c89d633e

An easy way to see AUL is to get a diametric magnet and spin it with one of your drive coils, mine gets up to 40,000 RPM so is really good for seeing the effect in a single coil, i stuck mine on a carbon rod axle and used miniature flanged bearings sunk into holes in the perspex supports :

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ix12bdfu0ypv1e2

I'm working on a coil that makes the rotor go faster than when there is no coil/core assembly present.

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 10:25:15 PM
Deepcut,

A single wrap directional coil has an ingrained pole, unlike the bifilar series wraped. The rotor magnet polarity determines the pole in the bifilar. Where did you buy those flange bearings?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:29:33 PM
Conrad, for acceleration-under-load (AUL) you need lots of turns (the way i do it), but the important thing is the time constant of the coil.

Watch the OUG videos i linked to on my channel, he explains it all.

You can easily build a good rotor, mine are just cheap bearings plus a threaded brass rod with nuts and washers, all off ebay and not hugely costly. My mechanical skilss probably aren't much better than yours.

Do watch the OUG videos and my videos that show AUL in different devices.

This is all i've been doing since 2010 and i love talking about it/answering any questions that i can and wil gladly help you get something off the ground (not that i have antigravity yet !).

Also, check my long post earlier where i posted my programs and spreadsheets that help with design.

atb,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:31:47 PM
A single wrap directional coil has an ingrained pole, unlike the bifilar series wraped. The rotor magnet polarity determines the pole in the bifilar.

I can't see how that is so, unless you have the two halves of the coil going in opposite directions ?

The induced pole in a coil depends on its winding direction and the magnet passing it (i know i don't need to tell you this i am just saying it for clarity).

atb,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:33:51 PM
i got the bearings from here, not from ebay as i said earlier now i think of it :

http://www.smbbearings.com/Framesets/Flanged_metric_frame.htm

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 10:35:48 PM
I can't see how that is so, unless you have the two halves of the coil going in opposite directions ?

The induced pole in a coil depends on its winding direction and the magnet passing it (i know i don't need to tell you this i am just saying it for clarity).

atb,

DC.

The winding directions cancel one another out in the bifilar series wrap.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:37:46 PM
So you wind one wire in one direction and the other in the opposite direction ?

btw i found miniature flanged bearings on ebay UK, what country are you in ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=miniature+flanged+bearings&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 19, 2013, 10:41:16 PM
So you wind one wire in one direction and the other in the opposite direction ?

btw i found miniature flanged bearings on ebay UK, what country are you in ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=miniature+flanged+bearings&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=miniature+flanged+bearings&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1)

DC.

When you attach The opposite ends of the bifilar, the current runs in opposite directions in the coil, that's why it has zero inductance. Right now I'm in Costa Rica. Thanks for the hyperlink.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 10:42:41 PM
Damn !

I've been using nothing but bifilar-serial and i didn't even think of that property, that's really cool :)

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 10:57:46 PM

An easy way to see AUL is to get a diametric magnet and spin it with one of your drive coils, mine gets up to 40,000 RPM so is really good for seeing the effect in a single coil, i stuck mine on a carbon rod axle and used miniature flanged bearings sunk into holes in the perspex supports :

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ix12bdfu0ypv1e2 (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ix12bdfu0ypv1e2)

I'm working on a coil that makes the rotor go faster than when there is no coil/core assembly present.

atb,

DC.

I saw your videos. Great idea. I will order some diametric ring magnets and diametric cylinder magnets. I got some small bearings but I had some success with "needle bearings" (the axle is sharpened like a pencil at both ends and the tip rests in a little crater, best in a hard material like glass).

Magnetic bearings (like skycollection does it) are also very good. Somewhere on YouTube I saw a motor like yours (diametric ring magnet on an axle) with a simple magnet bearing arrangement.

Did you drill a hole for the carbon axle or was it a ring type magnet?

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 11:16:50 PM
It's a cylinder magnet, i got the plastic laser cut, there is a local company who are cheap and don't mind my small orders.

I bought the carbon rod online, it is good but after a while it wears down and the magnet slips if you don't superglue it.

Some pics of the diametric setup :

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?a9a5708ii8c13rf

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?f7jyrx8n8odnpqb

Some pics of a small multi-magnet rotor using threaded brass rod for axle and nuts and washers to secure bearings and rotor :

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?16o9q3z1zwi0433

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?aj22y7vrbxnkvlr

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 19, 2013, 11:17:26 PM
@synchro1 and DeepCut:

I am really amazed by the pole independence of a bifilar Tesla coil and I will try that with my "pulse motor drive circuit".

I also like DeepCut's setup ( http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ix12bdfu0ypv1e2# (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ix12bdfu0ypv1e2#) ) and I will build that too, just because it is so nice.

I am always reluctant drilling a hole into a magnet? But it seems to be possible without a negative effect?

I am away till after Easter, so it will be some time.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 11:28:08 PM
Yes that's a great fact from synchro, i will make a small bifilar drive coil and test it.

Right now i am testing the difference between a single bifilar coil as output, and the same coil rewound as quadfilar with the two sections connected in parallel, as suggested by gotoluc.

I've done the first test and am now rewinding the coil for the second, with my amazingly high-tech winding machine :

[URL=http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/deepcut71/media/DSC02942_zps1f5160e7.jpg.html](http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y437/deepcut71/th_DSC02942_zps1f5160e7.jpg) (http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/deepcut71/media/DSC02942_zps1f5160e7.jpg.html)[/url]

Well it was a good discussion, i look forward to your build :)

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 19, 2013, 11:34:20 PM

I will be winding coils for a bit but i have the PC on if you have more questions.

I have asked millions of questions over the past few years so it feels good to be answering some :)

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 20, 2013, 12:32:56 AM
@synchro1 and DeepCut:

I am really amazed by the pole independence of a bifilar Tesla coil and I will try that with my "pulse motor drive circuit".

I also like DeepCut's setup ( http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ix12bdfu0ypv1e2# (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ix12bdfu0ypv1e2#) ) and I will build that too, just because it is so nice.

I am always reluctant drilling a hole into a magnet? But it seems to be possible without a negative effect?

I am away till after Easter, so it will be some time.

I agree that drilling holes in magnets is strictly Tabu!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 01:09:18 AM
Yes, no drilling of magnets !

I managed to bugger up my test coil, more wasted copper !

One day i will put all my useless coils into a bath of acetone to remove the insualation layer, then melt down the copper. Or maybe just give them away !

Anyway, i know of one other guy doing good things with parallel, multifilar coils so we know it works.

Trouble is, say we are going from bi to quadfilar, in order to maintain the same inductance we have to use twice the amount of wire, but the extra current means extra AUL so it's a price we pay for better performance and a higher current output.

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 20, 2013, 01:49:24 AM
Not to downplay Skycollection's Lenzless demonstrations too much. We can duplicate his Pancake sandwiches simply enough. His approach is awesome as it stands. Thanks to Skycollection for his recent series of enlightening videos! We're witnessing how simple it is to harvest free energy. Skycollection appears to generate at least the measely 8 watts it takes to run it. Every instinct tells me he's generating much more then 8 watts in illumination. Looks more like the equivalent of at least 40 watts to me.

Two capacitor banks of equal storage would answer the question. One bank charged for input, the other empty to store output. Simple to measure and compare the capacitor charges after a full run. It wouldn't surprise me to find 8 times the power in the output capacitor maybe much more. This simple discovery may replace nuclear fission and fossil fuels. I discovered an even simplier approach, however that still leaves Skycollection's innovation as the current state of the proven art. Bravo for George!

Another point is multiple coils split the input and Lenz delay advantage. 6 pancake coils in parallel generate the same no Lenz output back to back as they would evenly spaced around the rotor. Twenty four back to back would work as well as 6 do in 4 seperate coils. So, we should be able to quadruple the output by beefing the coils up 4 times in size! 4 coils of 24 pancakes!

The diametric magnet core can cut down on all this extra wire. Wait for Deepcut's forthcomming replication to see what I mean.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ALVARO_CS on March 20, 2013, 08:16:09 AM
4 coils 24 pankakes should mean a bigger core, (longer)
and multiply the magnetic drag,even with no lenz
a clue may also be in the number of turns (length of wire) and/or ratio center coil area- magnet area (reminds me the Adams advices)

In Adams type, I got good results with square mags on rotor, and round cores at driver coils.

Gentlemen, this discussion you shared here inspired me a lot. Thanks so much.

My next try will be exploring rectangular bifilar pankakes, playing with golden mean dimensions in 3D.(for generator coils)

Will post any result, good or bad. (sorry not able to make vids, only pics.)

cheers
Alvaro
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: THANE HEINS on March 20, 2013, 01:10:38 PM
Hello All,

Please allow me to take a moment of your time to set the record straight...

There is no such thing as "THE DELAYED LENZ EFFECT."

The "effect" is actually called REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION or ReGenX GENERATOR INNOVATION (some also refer to it as the HEINS EFFECT with respect to the original discoverer) and it was developed by yours truly, Thane Heins from 1999 to 2008 and rose from my desire to create a new energy innovation that would end the "need" for oil wars. The ReGenX Innovation was developed on a steady diet of Blood, Sweat and Tears and often all three simultaneously.

The ReGenX innovation was introduced to the world at MIT and then Ottawa University (naively and honestly as the Perepitea Generator) via a newspaper article written by Tyler Hamilton and published by the Toronto Star who deliberately and cleverly included the "Perpetual Motion" notion to mislead and stir up readers emotions in order to sell more advertising - which they did very well because the article was one of the top articles that year (although totally based on a false premise).

At Ottawa University the Regenerative Acceleration innovation's development was assisted greatly by Luc Choquette (and his own blood, sweat tears and sore back), Owen Charles, Saverio Panetta, Bill and Ellen Costantino and many, many others - who were ALL God sent and indispensable, who helped move the innovation in their own way from one stage to another until we achieved the final goal and with both the ReGenX innovation and the BiTT and was promptly expelled from our satellite lab at OU (Ottawa University) after being slandered, locked out of our lab, physically assaulted, threatened and had 3 prototypes sabotaged.

There has been much false and predominantly ignorant criticism of the innovation over the years - which have all been proven false and baseless but some still exists today (below)...

Nevertheless the ReGenX Innovation is currently being embraced and commercialized by 8 different companies worldwide and updated patents have been filed - so it is ready to move to the next stage of its evolution - or revolution into the mainstream market and commercialized.

Those of you who have been able to successfully create a generator that has the ability to accelerate under load - you have ALL created Over-Unity devices - Congrats!, ignore what any ignorant naysayer may claim.

Thanks
Thane

Thane C. Heins
President & CEO
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"Change catalysts using our potential to make a positive difference"
Email: thaneh@potentialdifference.ca
Cell: 613.795.1602
slideshare http://www.slideshare.net/ThaneCHeins

HERE IS YOUR ("INGNORANCE IS NOT BLISS") LESSON FOR THE DAY BOYS AND GIRLS...

Cheers
Thane

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ReGenX and Impedance Matching...
From: Stefan Hartmann hartiberlin@gmail.com
Date: Mon, March 18, 2013 8:09 pm
To: thaneh@potentialdifference.ca,

Hi Thane,
to me "impedance matching"  also means:

DEAR STEFAN,

WHAT IT "MEANS" TO YOU IS IRRELEVANT SINCE,

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS - BUT NOT THEIR OWN FACTS. ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Reducing the load on the input power by matching the right load at the output...

Exactly this you are doing...

NOT TRUE AT ALL (AND THIS IS A FORM OF MALICIOUS SCIENTIFIC SLANDER BASED IN IGNORANCE WHICH SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED), AND WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE OVER UNITY FORUM TERMS OF USE IF SHARED: "You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate"...

SINCE A DEAD SHORT IS AN INFINITE LOAD AND YOU CAN'T GET A HIGHER LOAD THAN THAT. AND THE ReGenX GENERATOR CREATES THE MOST ACCELERATION WITH A DEAD SHORT (IE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF LIGHT BULBS (LOADS) CONNECTED IN PARALLEL) AND WORKS BEST WITH PURELY RESISTIVE LOADS.

THE "IMPEDANCE MATCHING" IDEA IS COMPLETLY FALSE, INACCURATE AND PURE BALONEY!

But you don´t yet get more power out than in.

YES WE DO (ANOTHER FALSE AND INACCURATE STATEMENT BASED IN IGNORANCE) AND I EXPLAIN WHY BELOW... TO THOSE WHO ARE EDUCATED ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND IT WILL BE CLEAR.

I ALWAYS FIND IT AMAZING THAT THE FOUNDER OF AN OU FORUM CAN'T EVEN SEE OU WHEN IT HAS BEEN STARING HIM IN THE FACE FOR OVER 5 YEARS.

If you are still using your yellow motor for testing and still no flywheel, you will not see, if you can raise the RPM on the purely passive flywheel by appling your Regen-X coil load...

Only this test would be valid and will show, if adding your Regen-X system will not drag the Flywheel RPM totally down over time.

NO IT WILL NOT (AND AGAIN MORE IGNORANCE)...

SINCE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CORE MATERIAL ON THE PLANET THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE SOME SORT OF HYSTERESIS EFFECT (MAGNETIC DRAG), AND REMNANT FLUX IN THE CORE REQUIRING ADDITIONAL DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE TO EXTRACT IT. (THE COMPANY THAT CREATES ONE WILL RULE THE WORLD BTW)

THE ReGenX GENERATOR OPERATES ON THE VERY SAME PRINCIPLE AS DO ALL GENERATORS I.E. COILS WITH CORES - SO IN THAT SENSE IT IS EXACTLY IDENTICAL TO ANY OTHER GENERATOR ON THE PLANET (THAT HAS CORES).

HYSTERESIS, REMNANT FLUX, AND DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE REQUIREMENTS WILL ALL BE DEALT WITH IN MANUFACTURING IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

So putting a Regen-X system on any motor will just need additional input power, cause your coil rods are dragging the motor down.

WE DON'T USE "RODS" WE USE M3 AND ABOVE FERROMAGNETIC LAMINATIONS TO MINIMIZE CORE HYSTERESIS AS DO ALL GOOD GENERATORS AND MOTORS ON PLANET EARTH.

Why aren´t you just doing the run test on your E-Bike ?

WHO SAYS WE ARE NOT?

Just let the E-Bike run WITHOUT the Regen-X system and see how long the 36 Volts batteries will last and the attach again the Regen-X system and let the bike again run the 36 Volts Battery pack run down by recharging the 36 Volts battery pack from the output of your coils.

THE 24 COILS ON THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE PROJECT WILL DELIVER A MINIMUM OF 384 WATTS OR 16 WATTS/COIL.   THE BIKE MOTOR WILL CONSUME A MAXIMUM OF 360 WATTS.

ONCE COMPLETE THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE WILL RUN "FOREVER" AS PLANNED JUST AS WE DID AT OU (OTTAWA U WITH THE BYONX eBIKE).

As you already have all the parts in place, why don´t you do these tests ?

Regards, Stefan.

MORE IGNORANCE AND MORE FAULTY ASSUMPTIONS - ALL THE PARTS ARE NOT IN PLACE...

ALL 24 COILS HAVE TO BE REWOUND AND 2 MORE ROTORS HAVE TO BE MADE AND INSTALLED WITH 2 NEW COIL JIGS ETC.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OVER-UNITY AND PERPETUAL MOTION

BELLOW IS THE CORRECT WAY TO EVALUATE ANY ELECTRIC GENERATOR:

AN ELECTRIC GENERATOR IS A DEVICE WHICH CONVERTS MECHANICAL POWER INTO ELECTRICAL POWER.

THE INPUT TO THE GENERATOR IS THE MECHANICAL POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT WHICH IS EQUAL TO THE TORQUE X THE SPEED.

THE OUTPUT IS THE ELECTRICAL POWER DELIVERED TO THE LOAD.

ALL GENERATORS ARE EVALUATED (EFFICIENCY WISE) BY WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THEY ARE PLACED ON-LOAD NOT BEFORE (DURING NO-LOAD).

FOR EXAMPLE:

THE HYDROELECTRIC GENERATOR ON THE RIVER IN OUR TOWN REQUIRES 500 KW OF MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER JUST TO IDLE ON NO-LOAD!

A LARGE WIND TURBINE WOULD BE EVEN WORSE AND REQUIRE EVEN MORE NO-LOAD IDLING ENERGY AND OFTEN THE WIND TURBINE'S GENERATOR IS USED AS A MOTOR TO BRING THE BLADES UP TO SPEED. ALSO OFTEN DONE TO TRICK THE TOWN FOLK WHEN THE WIND IS LOW BUT THE PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEIR TURBINE TURNING INSTEAD OF SITTING IDLE.

A DIESEL MOTOR WILL POWER A LARGE GENERATOR ON NO-LOAD WITH A LARGE FUEL CONSUMPTION - WITH ZERO POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT, ZERO GENERATOR OUTPUT AND ZERO EFFICIENCY.

THE IDLING NO-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY REQUIREMENTS ARE NEVER EVER PART OF THE EFFICIENCY CALCULATION. IF THEY WERE MOST GENERATORS WOULD BE LESS THAN 10% EFFICIENT AND THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

IT IS THE ON-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY INPUT INCREASE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IMPORTANT NOT THE NO-LOAD IDLING PRIME MOVER POWER CONSUMPTION.

I.E. A GENERATOR THAT DELIVERS 0.8 WATTS TO THE LOAD WITH A 1 WATT INCREASE IN ON-LOAD MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER OVER THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT IS 80% EFFICIENT - EVEN THOUGH THE NO-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY INPUT MAY BE 500 KW AND THE TOTAL INPUT 500,001 WATTS WITH AN OUTPUT OF 0.8 WATTS!

SO IF YOU HAVE A GENERATOR THAT ACCELERATES ON-LOAD ANY LOAD (AND YOU ARE NOT SOMEHOW REDUCING NO-LOAD MECHANICAL LOSSES IN THE PROCESS THEN YOU HAVE OVER-UNITY) CONGRATULATIONS!

SATURATING THE CORE AND REDUCING ROTOR FLUX PENETRATION WOULD BE A FORM OF NO-LOAD LOSS REDUCTION BECAUSE THE HYSTERESIS EFFECTS WOULD BE REDUCED (BUT THE CORE WOULD QUICKLY OVERHEAT AND FAIL)

AS WOULD LEVITATING THE GENERATOR OFF THE BEARINGS OR SUPERCONDUCTING YOUR COILS ETC. WHEN PLACING IT ON-LOAD.

BTW THE NET MECHANICAL INPUT POWER TO ANY GENERATOR AT ANY STEADY STATE SPEED IS 0.00 WATTS BECAUSE THE NET TORQUE WILL ALWAYS BE ZERO AND MECHANICAL INPUT POWER = TORQUE X SPEED.

IF THE SYSTEM ACCELERATES ON-LOAD THEN THE MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER INCREASES (OVER THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT) + THE LOAD POWER ADDED TOGETHER ARE MORE THAN THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT ... THE GENERATOR IS OVER-UNIY ALTHOUGH NOT PERPETUAL MOTION.

IF YOU CAN DELIVER SUSTAINED POWER TO A LOAD (OR LOADS) WITH A REDUCTION IN NO-LOAD IDLING INPUT POWER REQUIREMENT THEN EVEN BETTER.

ANY GENERATOR THAT CAN DELIVER 1 WATT OF ELECTRICAL POWER WITH ONLY A 1 WATT INCREASE IN MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT INPUT POWER INCREASE (OVER THE N0-LOAD STARTING POINT) IS 100% EFFICIENT.

IT GOES UP OR DOWN FROM THERE... NOT HAVING TO INCREASE THE MECHANICAL INPUT WHILE DELIVERING 0.0000000000000000000000000001^N=INFINITY WATTS IS OVER-UNITY.

THE ReGenX GENERATOR DELIVERS 1 WATT OF ELECTRICAL POWER TO ITS LOADS + AN INCREASE IN MECHANICAL OUTPUT WITHOUT AN INCREASE IN DRIVE SHAFT MECHANICAL INPUT POWER AND INCLUDES A REDUCTION IN PRIME MOVER INPUT.

PERPETUAL MOTION IN THIS CASE REQUIRES AN OVER-UNITY GENERATOR CONFIGURATION WHEREBY THE ELECTRICAL OUTPUT EXCEEDS THE ELECTRICAL INPUT POWER AND ALL THE RESISTIVE LOSSES IN THE SYSTEM WHICH IS A TALL ORDER BECAUSE THE RESISTIVE LOSSES INCREASE AS SYSTEM SPEED INCREASES

BUT IT CAN AND HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE AND WILL BE DONE AGAIN.

REGARDS Thane

ps
THE DAY I CREATED A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY (ATTACHED)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 01:13:34 PM

Both of my tube magnets are 0.6 Tesla, even having them sitting four inches apart would make it impossible to spin up the rotor magnet.

You have tried this yourself, haven't you ?

atb,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Heinstein on March 20, 2013, 01:17:00 PM
A MESSAGE FROM THANE HEINS (I'll remove this one if the moderator doesn't censor me?)

Hello All,

Please allow me to take a moment of your time to set the record straight...

There is no such thing as "THE DELAYED LENZ EFFECT."

The "effect" is actually called REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION or ReGenX GENERATOR INNOVATION (some also refer to it as the HEINS EFFECT with respect to the original discoverer) and it was developed by yours truly, Thane Heins from 1999 to 2008 and rose from my desire to create a new energy innovation that would end the "need" for oil wars. The ReGenX Innovation was developed on a steady diet of Blood, Sweat and Tears and often all three simultaneously.

The ReGenX innovation was introduced to the world at MIT and then Ottawa University (naively and honestly as the Perepitea Generator) via a newspaper article written by Tyler Hamilton and published by the Toronto Star who deliberately and cleverly included the "Perpetual Motion" notion to mislead and stir up readers emotions in order to sell more advertising - which they did very well because the article was one of the top articles that year (although totally based on a false premise).

At Ottawa University the Regenerative Acceleration innovation's development was assisted greatly by Luc Choquette (and his own blood, sweat tears and sore back), Owen Charles, Saverio Panetta, Bill and Ellen Costantino and many, many others - who were ALL God sent and indispensable, who helped move the innovation in their own way from one stage to another until we achieved the final goal and with both the ReGenX innovation and the BiTT and was promptly expelled from our satellite lab at OU (Ottawa University) after being slandered, locked out of our lab, physically assaulted, threatened and had 3 prototypes sabotaged.

There has been much false and predominantly ignorant criticism of the innovation over the years - which have all been proven false and baseless but some still exists today (below)...

Nevertheless the ReGenX Innovation is currently being embraced and commercialized by 8 different companies worldwide and updated patents have been filed - so it is ready to move to the next stage of its evolution - or revolution into the mainstream market and commercialized.

Those of you who have been able to successfully create a generator that has the ability to accelerate under load - you have ALL created Over-Unity devices - Congrats!, ignore what any ignorant naysayer may claim.

Thanks
Thane

Thane C. Heins
President & CEO
Potential +/- Difference Inc. R & D
"Change catalysts using our potential to make a positive difference"
Email: thaneh@potentialdifference.ca
Cell: 613.795.1602
slideshare http://www.slideshare.net/ThaneCHeins (http://www.slideshare.net/ThaneCHeins)

HERE IS YOUR ("INGNORANCE IS NOT BLISS") LESSON FOR THE DAY BOYS AND GIRLS...

Cheers
Thane

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ReGenX and Impedance Matching...
From: Stefan Hartmann hartiberlin@gmail.com
Date: Mon, March 18, 2013 8:09 pm
To: thaneh@potentialdifference.ca,

Hi Thane,
to me "impedance matching"  also means:

DEAR STEFAN,

WHAT IT "MEANS" TO YOU IS IRRELEVANT SINCE,

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINIONS - BUT NOT THEIR OWN FACTS. ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Reducing the load on the input power by matching the right load at the output...
Exactly this you are doing...

NOT TRUE AT ALL (AND THIS IS A FORM OF MALICIOUS SCIENTIFIC SLANDER BASED IN IGNORANCE WHICH SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED), AND WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE OVER UNITY FORUM TERMS OF USE IF SHARED: "You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate"...

SINCE A DEAD SHORT IS AN INFINITE LOAD AND YOU CAN'T GET A HIGHER LOAD THAN THAT. AND THE ReGenX GENERATOR CREATES THE MOST ACCELERATION WITH A DEAD SHORT (IE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF LIGHT BULBS (LOADS) CONNECTED IN PARALLEL) AND WORKS BEST WITH PURELY RESISTIVE LOADS.

THE "IMPEDANCE MATCHING" IDEA IS COMPLETLY FALSE, INACCURATE AND PURE BALONEY!

OR IN ANY OTHER ReGenX TEST AND THE ONLY VATIALBE THAT IS CHANGED IS THE OPERATING FREQUENCY OF THE ReGenX COIL AND THE LOAD STAYS THE SAME (ALWAYS)!

But you don´t yet get more power out than in.

YES WE DO (ANOTHER FALSE AND INACCURATE STATEMENT BASED IN IGNORANCE) AND I EXPLAIN WHY BELOW... TO THOSE WHO ARE EDUCATED ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND IT WILL BE CLEAR.

I ALWAYS FIND IT AMAZING THAT THE FOUNDER OF AN OU FORUM CAN'T EVEN SEE OU WHEN IT HAS BEEN STARING HIM IN THE FACE FOR OVER 5 YEARS.

If you are still using your yellow motor for testing and still no flywheel, you will not see, if you can raise the RPM on the purely passive flywheel by appling your Regen-X coil load...

Only this test would be valid and will show, if adding your Regen-X system will not drag the Flywheel RPM totally down over time.

NO IT WILL NOT (AND AGAIN MORE IGNORANCE)...

SINCE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CORE MATERIAL ON THE PLANET THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE SOME SORT OF HYSTERESIS EFFECT (MAGNETIC DRAG), AND REMNANT FLUX IN THE CORE REQUIRING ADDITIONAL DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE TO EXTRACT IT. (THE COMPANY THAT CREATES ONE WILL RULE THE WORLD BTW)

THE ReGenX GENERATOR OPERATES ON THE VERY SAME PRINCIPLE AS DO ALL GENERATORS I.E. COILS WITH CORES - SO IN THAT SENSE IT IS EXACTLY IDENTICAL TO ANY OTHER GENERATOR ON THE PLANET (THAT HAS CORES).

HYSTERESIS, REMNANT FLUX, AND DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE REQUIREMENTS WILL ALL BE DEALT WITH IN THE DESIGN AND MANUFACTURING PROCESS IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

So putting a Regen-X system on any motor will just need additional input power, cause your coil rods are dragging the motor down.

WE DON'T USE "RODS" WE USE M3 AND ABOVE FERROMAGNETIC LAMINATIONS TO MINIMIZE CORE HYSTERESIS AS DO ALL GOOD GENERATORS AND MOTORS ON PLANET EARTH.

Why aren´t you just doing the run test on your E-Bike ?

WHO SAYS WE ARE NOT?

Just let the E-Bike run WITHOUT the Regen-X system and see how long the 36 Volts batteries will last and the attach again the Regen-X system and let the bike again run the 36 Volts Battery pack run down by recharging the 36 Volts battery pack from the output of your coils.

THE 24 COILS ON THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE PROJECT WILL DELIVER A MINIMUM OF 384 WATTS OR 16 WATTS/COIL.   THE BIKE MOTOR WILL CONSUME A MAXIMUM OF 360 WATTS.

ONCE COMPLETE THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE WILL RUN "FOREVER" AS PLANNED JUST AS WE DID AT OU (OTTAWA U WITH THE BYONX eBIKE).

As you already have all the parts in place, why don´t you do these tests ?
Regards, Stefan.

MORE IGNORANCE AND MORE FAULTY ASSUMPTIONS - ALL THE PARTS ARE NOT IN PLACE...

ALL 24 COILS HAVE TO BE REWOUND AND 2 MORE ROTORS HAVE TO BE MADE AND INSTALLED WITH 2 NEW COIL JIGS ETC.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OVER-UNITY AND PERPETUAL MOTION

BELLOW IS THE CORRECT WAY TO EVALUATE ANY ELECTRIC GENERATOR:

AN ELECTRIC GENERATOR IS A DEVICE WHICH CONVERTS MECHANICAL POWER (IN A DRIVE SHAFT) INTO ELECTRICAL POWER.

THE INPUT TO THE GENERATOR IS THE MECHANICAL POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT WHICH IS EQUAL TO THE TORQUE X THE SPEED.

THE OUTPUT IS THE ELECTRICAL POWER DELIVERED TO THE LOAD.

ALL GENERATORS ARE EVALUATED (EFFICIENCY WISE) BY WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THEY ARE PLACED ON-LOAD NOT BEFORE (DURING NO-LOAD).

FOR EXAMPLE:

THE HYDROELECTRIC GENERATOR ON THE RIVER IN OUR TOWN REQUIRES 500 KW OF MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER JUST TO IDLE ON NO-LOAD!

A LARGE WIND TURBINE WOULD BE EVEN WORSE AND REQUIRE EVEN MORE NO-LOAD IDLING ENERGY AND OFTEN THE WIND TURBINE'S GENERATOR IS USED AS A MOTOR TO BRING THE BLADES UP TO SPEED. ALSO OFTEN DONE TO TRICK THE TOWN FOLK WHEN THE WIND IS LOW BUT THE PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEIR TURBINE TURNING INSTEAD OF SITTING IDLE.

A DIESEL MOTOR WILL POWER A LARGE GENERATOR ON NO-LOAD WITH A LARGE FUEL CONSUMPTION - WITH ZERO POWER IN THE DRIVE SHAFT, ZERO GENERATOR OUTPUT AND ZERO EFFICIENCY.

THE IDLING NO-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY REQUIREMENTS ARE NEVER EVER PART OF THE EFFICIENCY CALCULATION. IF THEY WERE MOST GENERATORS WOULD BE LESS THAN 10% EFFICIENT AND THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

IT IS THE ON-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY INPUT INCREASE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IMPORTANT NOT THE NO-LOAD IDLING PRIME MOVER POWER CONSUMPTION.

I.E. A GENERATOR THAT DELIVERS 0.8 WATTS TO THE LOAD WITH A 1 WATT INCREASE IN ON-LOAD MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER OVER THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT IS 80% EFFICIENT - EVEN THOUGH THE NO-LOAD MECHANICAL ENERGY INPUT MAY BE 500 KW AND THE TOTAL INPUT 500,001 WATTS WITH AN OUTPUT OF 0.8 WATTS!

SO IF YOU HAVE A GENERATOR THAT ACCELERATES ON-LOAD ANY LOAD (AND YOU ARE NOT SOMEHOW REDUCING NO-LOAD MECHANICAL LOSSES IN THE PROCESS THEN YOU HAVE OVER-UNITY) CONGRATULATIONS!

SATURATING THE CORE AND REDUCING ROTOR FLUX PENETRATION WOULD BE A FORM OF NO-LOAD LOSS REDUCTION BECAUSE THE HYSTERESIS EFFECTS WOULD BE REDUCED (BUT THE CORE WOULD QUICKLY OVERHEAT AND FAIL)

AS WOULD LEVITATING THE GENERATOR OFF THE BEARINGS OR SUPERCONDUCTING YOUR COILS ETC. WHEN PLACING IT ON-LOAD.
BTW THE NET MECHANICAL INPUT POWER TO ANY GENERATOR AT ANY STEADY STATE SPEED IS 0.00 WATTS BECAUSE THE NET TORQUE WILL ALWAYS BE ZERO AND MECHANICAL INPUT POWER = TORQUE X SPEED.

IF THE SYSTEM ACCELERATES ON-LOAD THEN THE MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT POWER INCREASES (OVER THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT) + THE LOAD POWER ADDED TOGETHER ARE MORE THAN THE NO-LOAD STARTING POINT ... THE GENERATOR IS OVER-UNIY ALTHOUGH NOT PERPETUAL MOTION.

IF YOU CAN DELIVER SUSTAINED POWER TO A LOAD (OR LOADS) WITH A REDUCTION IN NO-LOAD IDLING INPUT POWER REQUIREMENT THEN EVEN BETTER.

ANY GENERATOR THAT CAN DELIVER 1 WATT OF ELECTRICAL POWER WITH ONLY A 1 WATT INCREASE IN MECHANICAL DRIVE SHAFT INPUT POWER INCREASE (OVER THE N0-LOAD STARTING POINT) IS 100% EFFICIENT.

IT GOES UP OR DOWN FROM THERE... NOT HAVING TO INCREASE THE MECHANICAL INPUT WHILE DELIVERING 0.0000000000000000000000000001^N=INFINITY WATTS IS OVER-UNITY.

THE ReGenX GENERATOR DELIVERS 1 WATT OF ELECTRICAL POWER TO ITS LOADS + AN INCREASE IN MECHANICAL OUTPUT WITHOUT AN INCREASE IN DRIVE SHAFT MECHANICAL INPUT POWER AND INCLUDES A REDUCTION IN PRIME MOVER INPUT.

PERPETUAL MOTION IN THIS CASE REQUIRES AN OVER-UNITY GENERATOR CONFIGURATION WHEREBY THE ELECTRICAL OUTPUT EXCEEDS THE ELECTRICAL INPUT POWER AND ALL THE RESISTIVE LOSSES IN THE SYSTEM WHICH IS A TALL ORDER BECAUSE THE RESISTIVE LOSSES INCREASE AS SYSTEM SPEED INCREASES

BUT IT CAN AND HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE AND WILL BE DONE AGAIN.

REGARDS Thane
ps
THE DAY I CREATED A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY (ATTACHED)
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 01:37:30 PM
Very well said Thane.

Does this mean that i am going to rule the world ?

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: conradelektro on March 20, 2013, 01:43:03 PM
Among a ton of words Mr. Thane C. Heins writes:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE 24 COILS ON THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE PROJECT WILL DELIVER A MINIMUM OF 384 WATTS OR 16 WATTS/COIL.   THE BIKE MOTOR WILL CONSUME A MAXIMUM OF 360 WATTS.

ONCE COMPLETE THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE WILL RUN "FOREVER" AS PLANNED JUST AS WE DID AT OU (OTTAWA U WITH THE BYONX eBIKE).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a native English speaker but as far as I understand, the alleged OU may be WILL HAPPEN, i.e. may be the case in the future.

Someone will have proven OU once it HAS HAPPENED.

So, lets wait and watch.

The only OU devices I have ever heard of WILL be OU after some improvements. And REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION seems to be in a similar category of OU devices.

It is good to experiment with this effect, but it is pretty unproductive to call it OU without factual proof. Proof by definition (as Mr. Heins attempts) is not very helpful. Words rarely deliver energy, words just deliver a small amount of warm air (in case they are spoken and not written down).

So, let's experiment. Bragging, claiming of rights, name giving and saving of the world should be delayed till proof materialises.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 20, 2013, 01:43:03 PM

Both of my tube magnets are 0.6 Tesla, even having them sitting four inches apart would make it impossible to spin up the rotor magnet.

You have tried this yourself, haven't you ?

atb,

DC.

I get tired of repeating myself. You need to run the rotor up first past threshold speed, then position the magnet core coil. You've made it much more difficult for me to keep explaining this to you then it would be to try it. I'm tired of your insults. This is my final response to you.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 01:45:31 PM
Among a ton of words Mr. Thane C. Heins writes:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE 24 COILS ON THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE PROJECT WILL DELIVER A MINIMUM OF 384 WATTS OR 16 WATTS/COIL.   THE BIKE MOTOR WILL CONSUME A MAXIMUM OF 360 WATTS.

ONCE COMPLETE THE INFINITE RANGE eBIKE WILL RUN "FOREVER" AS PLANNED JUST AS WE DID AT OU (OTTAWA U WITH THE BYONX eBIKE).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not a native English speaker but as far as I understand, the alleged OU may be WILL HAPPEN, i.e. may be the case in the future.

Someone will have proven OU once it HAS HAPPENED.

So, lets wait and watch.

The only OU devices I have ever heard of WILL be OU after some improvements. And REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION seems to be in a similar category of OU devices.

It is good to experiment with this effect, but it is pretty unproductive to call it OU without factual proof. Proof by definition (as Mr. Heins attempts) is not very helpful. Words rarely deliver energy, words just deliver a small amount of warm air (in case they are spoken and not written down).

So, let's experiment. Bragging, claiming of rights, name giving and saving of the world should be delayed till proof materialises.

Well, lets not start a Thane-war, but he has done a lot more than brag, Conrad. I really don't think you're in any position to talk him down.

atb,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 01:46:48 PM

I get tired of repeating myself. You need to run the rotor up first past threshold speed, then position the magnet core coil. You've made it much more difficult for me to keep explaining this to you then it would be to try it. I'm tired of your insults. This is my final response to you.

Insults ?

Where was my insult ?

I'm sorry if i don't remember one of the points you made but posting here isn't the only thing i do in my life.

Here's an insult,

Go jump in a lake :)

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: gyulasun on March 20, 2013, 01:51:45 PM
Hej Garry, please cool down and relax. MAybe correct your above post till you can edit it.

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 01:56:11 PM
Thank you Gyula.

I am beginning to understand why MileHigh is the way he is.

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: Heinstein on March 20, 2013, 02:08:09 PM
Very well said Thane.

Does this mean that i am going to rule the world ?

All the best,

DC.

YES ABSOLUTELY,

WELL IF YOU CAN ACTUALLY TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO "GO F THEMSELVES" ANYWAY - BUT FORGET ABOUT THE OIL COMPANIES TRYING TO KILL YOU... JUST THINK ABOUT ALL THOSE ANGRY OUT OF WORK PROSTITUTES!  :-[

CHEERS
T

PS TO REPEAT (FOR THE "HARD OF LEARNING"  :o ):

OVERUNITY IS NOT THE SAME AS PERPETUAL MOTION

ANYONE WHO CAN CAUSE AN ELECTRIC GENERATOR TO ACCELERATE ITSELF WHILE DELIVERING POWER TO A LOAD WITHOUT REQUIRING AN INCREASE IN PRIME MOVER INPUT AND WHO ISN'T SOMEHOW REDUCING LOSSES HAS CREATED AN OVERUNITY DEVICE!  ;)

BE PROUD!

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 20, 2013, 03:49:44 PM
@Heinstien,

Have you ever achieved "Regenerative Acceleration" with a diametric tube magnet core Tesla bifilar solenoid output coil?

This thread needs a moderator. Vulgarity is forbidden on this forum. I will volunteer to help enforce standards of common decency.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 04:24:30 PM
@Heinstien,

Have you ever achieved "Regenerative Acceleration" with a diametric tube magnet core Tesla bifilar solenoid output coil?

This thread needs a moderator. Vulgarity is forbidden on this forum. I will volunteer to help enforce standards of common decency.

I take back and apologise for the insult, but you really should be less touchy.

I had simply forgotten one of the things you told me about your setup, i have had to tell people things more than once before and i don't get touchy about it.

Let's continue in peace.

All the best,

DC.
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: synchro1 on March 20, 2013, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from Thane Heins:

"SINCE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CORE MATERIAL ON THE PLANET THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE SOME SORT OF HYSTERESIS EFFECT (MAGNETIC DRAG), AND REMNANT FLUX IN THE CORE REQUIRING ADDITIONAL DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE TO EXTRACT IT. (THE COMPANY THAT CREATES ONE WILL RULE THE WORLD BTW)

THE ReGenX GENERATOR OPERATES ON THE VERY SAME PRINCIPLE AS DO ALL GENERATORS I.E. COILS WITH CORES - SO IN THAT SENSE IT IS EXACTLY IDENTICAL TO ANY OTHER GENERATOR ON THE PLANET (THAT HAS CORES).

HYSTERESIS, REMNANT FLUX, AND DRIVE SHAFT COERCIVE FORCE REQUIREMENTS WILL ALL BE DEALT WITH IN THE DESIGN AND MANUFACTURING PROCESS IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

So putting a Regen-X system on any motor will just need additional input power, cause your coil rods are dragging the motor down.

WE DON'T USE "RODS" WE USE M3 AND ABOVE FERROMAGNETIC LAMINATIONS TO MINIMIZE CORE HYSTERESIS AS DO ALL GOOD GENERATORS AND MOTORS ON PLANET EARTH".

The diametric magnet core has both a positive and a negative pole of equal strength facing the NS magnet rotor. Unlike any ferrite core, the diametric core cancels out any hystersis from magnetic drag once the rotor's moving!

Quote from Thane Heins:

"SINCE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CORE MATERIAL ON THE PLANET THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE SOME SORT OF HYSTERESIS EFFECT".

The dametric magnet core neutralizes the "Drag Hysteresis" effect completely.

The magnet core output coils could be charged to suppress the PM core fields to facilitate starting!
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 05:17:31 PM
I will attempt to confirm what synchro is saying when the parts arrive.

All the best,

DC.

Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 20, 2013, 05:23:27 PM
Hi DeepCut,

Quote
I've never used processing, but that's what my arduino's language is based on i think ?

It's pretty much the same, just added graphical abilities and more system functions.

Quote
How are things with you, what are you dreaming/thinking/building ?

Busy but still building, I have an image of recent builds but don't want to clutter this thread.

Hi Alvaro_CS,

Is there a difference between pancake wound coils and rectangular pound cake style coils?
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: ALVARO_CS on March 20, 2013, 06:18:48 PM
Hi DreamThinkBuild
I think there should be no difference as for the current path is reffered, but I have a lot of steel laminations from an old trafo  I can use as core before trying the diam. magnet, so I can experiment with relationships between area facing rotor, coil area and  also volumes (masses related to flux densities & rpm, etc.)
In an intuitive way, I think that this physical aspects are related to harmony laws. The golden mean is just a tool (guide) to order things when I build.
Many times one has a wide range of aleatory choices and I always give preference to this proportions.
may be I´m nuts
cheers
Title: Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
Post by: DeepCut on March 20, 2013, 06:33:29 PM
Hi DreamThinkBuild
I think there should be no difference as for the current path is reffered, but I have a lot of steel laminations from an old trafo  I can use as core before trying the diam. magnet, so I can experiment with relationships between area facing rotor, coil area and  also volumes (masses related to flux densities & rpm, etc.)
In an intuitive way, I think that this physical aspects are related to harmony laws. The golden mean is just a tool (