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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 873577 times)

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #450 on: October 28, 2011, 06:34:19 PM »
THIS POST WAS EDITED

Here is a replacement scope shot with Vmean on the Math.
Math is set at 50 Volts division.

Amp meter on the 12.2VDC side of the inverter shows the inverter consumes 400ma idle (nothing connected on output)
Under load it goes up to 1,130ma
The Series Capacitor used in this test is 15uF, Shunt is 1 Ohms, Secondary has a 10 Ohm Load Resistor with 6.52vac across it.

Luc
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 05:19:20 AM by gotoluc »
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gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #451 on: October 28, 2011, 06:48:10 PM »
I deleted this post since the Scope shot Math was an error

Luc
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 12:33:26 AM by gotoluc »
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SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #452 on: October 28, 2011, 07:40:40 PM »
According to your curve all the power is active here  :o :o  :o
Look like also the power is reflected since the input (on DC side) is increasing, finally look like this experiment is failed.  :'(
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gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #453 on: October 28, 2011, 08:28:53 PM »
What do you guys think the peaks on the top of the Shunt Sine Wave are???

Luc
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 01:51:13 AM by gotoluc »
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CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #454 on: October 28, 2011, 08:53:53 PM »
Quote from: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 08:28:53 PM
If so what do you think the peaks are on the top of the waves ???

Luc

THEY ARE FREE AND HAPPY HUMPBACK WHALES... NOT RELATED BUT REALLY WORTH WATCHING!  8)
http://www.wimp.com/humpbackwhale/

CHEERS
T
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SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #455 on: October 28, 2011, 09:29:32 PM »
Quote
If so what do you think the peaks are on the top of the waves ???

Luc

Harmonics distortion (maybe due to resonance and saturation of the core): you can see on the green curve also, and because you have "Zoomed" the MATHcurve (using high Volt/division the oscilloscope make the product of two and the deformation is "amplified" on the red curve, but nothing strange here, the most important is the red curve which is above the zero line: power doesn't return to source...
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gyulasun

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #456 on: October 28, 2011, 10:34:23 PM »
Hi Luc,

I still think the transformer core starts saturating (even though its primary AC current is just under 700 mA in your latest test when you had 22 Ohm shunt resistor in series with the primary coil).  The time-coincidence of the red scope waveform's spikey peaks with that of the green input current shows this I believe.

In the link below  you can see a scope shot on current shape through a saturating inductor (note: there is a misprint, D4 in the text below the schematic should read as D3).
Here is the link:
http://www.dos4ever.com/flyback/flyback.html#ind2 

What output power is the sine wave inverter manufactured for, just curious, I do not think you overload it.

Gyula
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nul-points

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #457 on: October 29, 2011, 12:06:34 AM »
Quote from: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 08:28:53 PM
If so what do you think the peaks are on the top of the waves ???

Luc

hi Luc

try slowly varying the frequency, either side of that shown in the above trace - is there a maximum in  the pk-pk o/p, nearby?

if so, select that frequency then slowly increase the i/p voltage from a lower initial value - do you get to an i/p voltage where those 'sharp peaks' suddenly snap into view on the regular waveform? (possibly accompanied by more noise from the trafo)?

i've seen something like this recently - will check

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 
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gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #458 on: October 29, 2011, 12:48:13 AM »
Quote from: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 28, 2011, 07:40:40 PM
According to your curve all the power is active here  :o :o  :o
Look like also the power is reflected since the input (on DC side) is increasing, finally look like this experiment is failed.  :'(

Hi SchubertReijiMaigo and everyone

An Electronics Engineer looked at the scope shots and noticed the math did not make sense.

As I said in my post when I turned off one probe the Math changed. But what I did not notice is the Math automatically changed to multiply Channel A to Channel A.

So you were looking at NOTHING real. You guys must be on drugs

I Edited the posts above with the correct scope shot, DC current reading and Shunt Resistor

So it looks like it is reactive after all

Luc
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CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #459 on: October 29, 2011, 01:37:29 AM »
Quote from: gotoluc on October 29, 2011, 12:48:13 AM

So it looks like it is reactive after all

Luc

GOD'S LITTLE KNOW 12th COMMANDMENT: "THOU SHALT NOT UNDERESTIMATE MASTER LUC" ~ GOD...  ;)
WHICH COMES RIGHT AFTER THE 11th AND IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED FOR SOME STRANGE REASON?  :-[

CHEERS
T
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CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #460 on: October 29, 2011, 01:54:25 AM »
Quote from: gotoluc on October 28, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
THIS POST WAS EDITED

I added an Amp meter on the DC side of the inverter and it idles at 400ma (nothing connected on output) and under load it's at 1,130ma - 10 Ohm Load Resistor with 6.52vac across it and the Shunt is 1 Ohms.

Luc

OK - THE OUTPUT IS 4.25 WATTS... WHAT IS THE DC INPUT VOLTAGE MR. MASTERBOATER?
12 VOLTS?

CHEERS
T
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gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #461 on: October 29, 2011, 01:57:48 AM »
Quote from: SchubertReijiMaigo on October 28, 2011, 09:29:32 PM
Harmonics distortion (maybe due to resonance and saturation of the core)

It's not Saturation!... this is a 300VA Toroid. It will not Saturate at this low of a Current input.

Please note that this only happens when using the Sine Wave Inverter and not when Connected to the Grid.

Luc
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nul-points

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #462 on: October 29, 2011, 02:08:30 AM »
Quote from: nul-points on October 29, 2011, 12:06:34 AM
hi Luc
[...]
i've seen something like this recently - will check

thanks
np


yeah, this is what i remembered seeing - a YT video by user 'selfonlypath' showing results obtained with his 'Transverter' setup (2x MWO trafos modified & connected together, then driven with an 'H' bridge)

  http://www.youtube.com/user/selfonlypath    eg., see 'Transverter 1'


at a combination of resonance and with the i/p volts just passing thro' a threshold, the o/p sine wave 'snaps' into a more triangular waveform with elongated peaks

the snapshot below captures the moment when the o/p changes from a sine to a 'triangular' wave with peaks


of course, you may just dismiss people's contributions as 'being on drugs'   ...but you did ask for feedback   ;)

cheers
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com



 
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gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #463 on: October 29, 2011, 02:09:50 AM »
Quote from: gyulasun on October 28, 2011, 10:34:23 PM
Hi Luc,

I still think the transformer core starts saturating (even though its primary AC current is just under 700 mA in your latest test when you had 22 Ohm shunt resistor in series with the primary coil).  The time-coincidence of the red scope waveform's spikey peaks with that of the green input current shows this I believe.

In the link below  you can see a scope shot on current shape through a saturating inductor (note: there is a misprint, D4 in the text below the schematic should read as D3).
Here is the link:
http://www.dos4ever.com/flyback/flyback.html#ind2 

What output power is the sine wave inverter manufactured for, just curious, I do not think you overload it.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

you may want to edit your post (if you still can) Please look at the Replacent scope shot above.

Regarding the peaks, it's not Saturation of the core. This is a 300VA Toroid, it takes much more current then that to Saturate it. Also, please note that these peaks only happen when connected to the sine wave Inverter. When connected to Grid there are no Peaks. See post with Grid scope shot on the next page

The Inverter is rated at 1000 Watts Continuous. Paid $300. for it

Thanks for your time

Luc
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 05:29:36 AM by gotoluc »
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gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #464 on: October 29, 2011, 02:16:12 AM »
Quote from: CRANKYpants on October 29, 2011, 01:54:25 AM
OK - THE OUTPUT IS 4.25 WATTS... WHAT IS THE DC INPUT VOLTAGE MR. MASTERBOATER?
12 VOLTS?

CHEERS
T

Yes, 12.3 Volts DC

Thanks

Luc
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